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ck1986
11-27-2012, 06:33 PM
Were only going to live on Earth once. Who knows if were going to see the Technology again. I mean I know alot of people who are really nice people. just trying to survive the harsh economy. People work all week long, shouldn't they have a day or two to relax and enjoy. Just because people who don't believe the same as me and you believe doesn't make them a bad person. There are far more disbeilivers out there who are more nice then some Muslims I know.
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YusufNoor
11-27-2012, 07:02 PM
:sl:

huh? we are kinds demanded to enjoy the dunya. just not the haram bits. what tech is haram? why can't you have 2 days off??

methinks you are missing something!

ma salaama
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 08:00 PM
i often think the same,

why does the haram of this world almost describe the heaven of the next?

i think its because in this world our actions give cause for others to act the way they do.

although you enjoy the butterfly flapping its wings you dont see the hurricane it causes somewhere else.


i guess it is why i am afraid of my words, actions and sins.
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Amat Allah
11-27-2012, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
why does the haram of this world almost describe the heaven of the next?
Are you sure of this statement my respected and noble brother?

"the haram of this world almost describe the heaven of the next" for Allah's sake; what are ya saying?
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 09:40 PM
really?

would you have me sit on a throne?

with clothes better than any i had given away?

with places with adornments and gold? when my ring was made of silver?

with women who had not been touched by men or jinns?

when i had not even looked? and kept away from?

alcohol? not even in my days away from my family and those that knew me did i do those things.



you are right though.

..the difference is that some people are naturally good.

..and others have to act so.


but if you are my judges then why did i even bother.

and if with you was the reward then understand i feel like iv already been judged.

kind regards.


lol at least you know what is in a persons heart, i just told you.


but it does not escape it.
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جوري
11-27-2012, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
with clothes better than any i had given away?

with places with adornments and gold? when my ring was made of silver?
You'll forgive my saying so but every time I take a moment to read your writing I find myself questioning what exactly you'd been smoking!

best,
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 09:47 PM
lol

yeah its not a problem,

i guess its easier to just talk about things when your managing to get along.

but if you went out to look for something and became worse of for it.. then its a life shattering experience.


likened much to those of psychosis or drug induced delusions.


i feel very much like im attention whoring, it is not good.
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Amat Allah
11-27-2012, 09:53 PM
No No , in shaa Allah he is noble and respected and I think that our brother have misunderstood and has written than thought based on the wrong concept he has... laa ilaha illa Allah... your words above O brother brought tears to my eyes and sadness to my heart for thinking like that about The Creator The Most Perfect Whom belong to Him all Might and Majesty...O Allah, all Praise and Glory be to You...

what you will get from haram things but bad things...!!! can't ya understand that there is a wisdom behind every single rule and order of Allah?

brother, Allah knows but we don't He Is The All Knower The Wise ...I wish you do read Qur'aan and hadiths carefully and know who is Allah...

May Allah guide us all and keep us guided and firm on His straight path Ameeeen

and btw, Allah doesn't prevent us from enjoying this dunay but He wants us too but in the right way ; and if you would be close to Allah; adhering to the religion of Allah rightly then you will enjoy this dunya and see the beauty in everything and in everywhere...laa ilaha illa Allah .

To Allah we belong and to Him we will return.
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YusufNoor
11-27-2012, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
really?


with women who had not been touched by men or jinns?

huh?

when i had not even looked? and kept away from?

..the difference is that some people are naturally good.

..and others have to act so.
:sl:

if you are saying that it is easier for some to do good that it is for others, just think of all of the extra ajr you get for your struggles!

just because you think that something is good, such as ease of virtue, doesn't mean that Allah won't reward you for struggles. it might be better for you!

and Allah knows best!

ma salaama
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 09:59 PM
your absolutely right,

thinking like that only makes you blind to the things allah swt has given.

but its all a test for you anyway.

wealth.

wives.

children.

you name it.

so basically the only reason i refrain from all that is wrong in me is because of a book not in my language and a man that was the closest to god pbuh.


its a very strange way to live your life but if you have not lived at the extremes its probably a lot easier to not look inside.

lol at least i look pious.


...probably
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Amat Allah
11-27-2012, 10:03 PM
My noble and respected brother, life is a test and I am sure that you are good from inside...

please, forgive me if saying anything wrong to ya , never meant to hurt ya ever , I really want happiness for ya and all good (and if I the creature wants this for ya then what about The Most Merciful)??

we need to be patient to reach the end of the road; we all suffered and still suffering but all that go away when Allah Is everything to ya...

it is not my right to judge ya cause I am not Allah but it is my duty from Allah to think good about ya and no matter what you are my brother whom I love for him what I love for ma self...

May Allah ease your way and make all your sadness and troubles go away Ameeeeeeeen

again, forgive me if have done anything wrong to ya...May Alah forgive us all Ameeeeeen
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 10:08 PM
no, its a passing feeling.

il be back to slightly less incoherent and the pretence of knowledge in no time.

but i guess if anybody can relate then its a hope of forgiveness that drives you.

for our past sins, actions and words.
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Amat Allah
11-27-2012, 10:53 PM
The rulings (ahkaam) of this world are not like the rulings of the Hereafter. The wine of this world causes people to lose their minds, unlike the good wine of the Hereafter which does not make people lose their minds or cause headaches or stomachaches. What Allaah has prepared for the believers of women on the Day of Resurrection as a reward for their obedience is not like zinaa which violates people’s honour, confuses lineages, spreads diseases and leads to regret. The women of Paradise are pure and good and they are wives for the believers there; they will never die or get old, unlike the women of this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We have created them (maidens) of special creation.

And made them virgins.

Loving (their husbands only), (and) of equal age”

[al-Waaqi’ah 56:35]

We ask Allaah to bless us with the best of this world and the next, and to help us to be obedient to His commands and to have certain faith in His reward and to keep us safe from His punishment. And Allaah knows best.

return to the following link and read in shaa Allah:

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/4994
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Amat Allah
11-27-2012, 11:07 PM
Allah taught us in Qur'aan Surat Al Qassass:

"But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and [yet], do not forget your share of the world. And do good as Allah has done good to you. And desire not corruption in the land. Indeed, Allah does not like corrupters." (77)


﴿وَابْتَغِ فِيمَآ ءَاتَاكَ اللَّهُ الدَّارَ الاٌّخِرَةَ وَلاَ تَنسَ نَصِيبَكَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا﴾

(But seek, with that which Allah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of lawful enjoyment in this world;) means, `use this great wealth and immense blessing Allah has given you to worship your Lord and draw closer to Him by doing a variety of good deeds which will earn you reward in this world and the Hereafter.'

﴿وَلاَ تَنسَ نَصِيبَكَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا﴾

(and forget not your portion of lawful enjoyment in this world;) `That which Allah has permitted of food, drink, clothing, dwelling places and women. Your Lord has rights over you, your self has rights over you, your family has rights over you, and your visitors have rights over you. So give each of them their due.'

﴿وَأَحْسِن كَمَآ أَحْسَنَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ﴾

(and be generous as Allah has been generous to you, ) `Be generous to His creatures, as He has been generous to you.'

﴿وَلاَ تَبْغِ الْفَسَادَ فِى الاٌّرْضِ﴾

(and seek not mischief in the land.) meaning: `do not let your aim be to spread corruption on earth and do harm to Allah's creation.'

﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُفْسِدِينَ﴾
(Verily, Allah likes not the mischief-makers.)
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Perseveranze
11-27-2012, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
really?

would you have me sit on a throne?

with clothes better than any i had given away?

with places with adornments and gold? when my ring was made of silver?

with women who had not been touched by men or jinns?

when i had not even looked? and kept away from?

alcohol? not even in my days away from my family and those that knew me did i do those things.



you are right though.

..the difference is that some people are naturally good.

..and others have to act so.


but if you are my judges then why did i even bother.

and if with you was the reward then understand i feel like iv already been judged.

kind regards.


lol at least you know what is in a persons heart, i just told you.


but it does not escape it.
Asalaamu Alaikum,

The things you mentioned cause us harm one way or another. For example, alcohol in Jannah won't make you drunk (have any side effects) like it does in Dunya.
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M.I.A.
11-27-2012, 11:37 PM
yep, your right.

cant remember all the verses relating to heaven but i remember the bit about alcohol and gambling.

like i said, find some drunk people and understand what happens.


scientist at heart so thats my natural thought process.


...the bit about harm is another subject altogether.


see the testing, affliction and calamities thread.


puts the fear of god into me.
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'Abd-al Latif
11-28-2012, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
yep, your right.

cant remember all the verses relating to heaven but i remember the bit about alcohol and gambling.

like i said, find some drunk people and understand what happens.


scientist at heart so thats my natural thought process.


...the bit about harm is another subject altogether.
Bro who made these things forbidden in the first place?

All we know about jannah are the equivalent of the names of things from this world. Alcohol in jannah will not harm us but will be a source of complete pleasure and enjoyment in the next life. And since all of jannah is what no eye has seen and no ear has heard it is wrong to liken the alcohol of this world to the next as they are not one and the same.

In this world, never does Allah forbid something but that He gives us an alternative replacement that is either equal or better than it. Jannah is paradise, the eternal bliss where nothing can ever go wrong so what we enjoy there will never harm us – unlike the alcohol of this world.

And this is also in close relation to the answer to the original poster. Allah does not "forbid enjoyment" because everything in the heavens and earth is made for mankind. Of the biggest evidence is that everything in the universe is in perfect harmony: we have food and drink that is suitable for us to eat from that is vital for our existence in this world, spouses in whom we find rest and peace and homes that provide shelter from the alternating weather. Did this happen by sheer luck?

Among the numerous verses in Qur'an Allah says:

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? And We have placed on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them, and We placed therein broad highways for them to pass through, that they may be guided. And We have made the heaven a roof, safe and well guarded. Yet they turn away from its signs (i.e. sun, moon, winds, clouds, etc.). And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.

(21:30-33)

This is but just one of the proofs that show everything is created for mankind. In addition to this, all forms of pleasure are permitted except for those that are forbidden by Allah. Relations with the opposite gender is forbidden but it is made permissible through the bonds marriage, pork is forbidden but a lot of other animals like cows, camel and sheep are allowed and even music is forbidden because the better alternative is listening to the words of Allah, something that will really give you calm and peace in your heart.

Never think of Allah as being unjust because He is Al Hakeem (The Most Wise) and all what Allah decrees is best, even if we cannot perceive it. Allah will not force you away from things that are inherent in you as a human but you just need to know how He wants you to behave.
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M.I.A.
11-28-2012, 12:19 AM
so lets test perception vs law.

hows the practice of multiple wives viewed this century?

if your married ask your mrs.


or your parents.


...or yourself.


so much is not what it was. keep going anyway... you may not think my answer relevant to your post.
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جوري
11-28-2012, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
hows the practice of multiple wives viewed this century?
I'd say less favorable than having multiple affairs and multiple kids out of wedlock.. strange world ain't it?
Perhaps if people were more honest with themselves and their partners they wouldn't be so worried about who is saying what behind their back!

best,
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'Abd-al Latif
11-28-2012, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
so lets test perception vs law.

hows the practice of multiple wives viewed this century?

if your married ask your mrs.


or your parents.


...or yourself.


so much is not what it was. keep going anyway.
In fairness that has nothing to do with anything but if you must know then know that the laws of Allah do not change because of time and place. The laws of non-Muslim are subjective and will continue to change until the end of time. The UK may not view plural marriages as legal, nor may one's spouse desire it or even parents but does that mean we change these law? If we did that then we would be no different then every other law that is subject to the whims of people.

During the reign of Hitler, and like many other European countries at one point, homosexuals would be prosecuted but now Germany, like their counterparts, is pro homosexual. The age of sexual consent in Cyprus is 17, in the UK it's 16, Czech Republic is 15, in Germany it's 14 whereas in Spain it's 13! Who's wrong and who's right here? Indeed, the paths to misguidance are many!

The laws of Allah never change because they are perfect, regardless of what one's spouse or parents or the world in general think. What weight do they hold besides the Law Giver?
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Alpha Dude
11-28-2012, 12:40 AM
Why doesn't Allah want us to enjoy dunya
This question is vague and the conclusion is foregone in the questionners mind based on nothing but one incorrect assumption after another. This stems from lack of clear understanding of the Islamic creed and main beliefs.

Originally Posted by ck1986
Were only going to live on Earth once.
Point 1 to learn: Islam teaches us that life in this world has been created as a test. We are the test subjects. We have been given a chance to earn heaven (full of unimaginable pleasure, peace and contentment) and avoid hell (monstrous place). In order to do that, we need to obey the rules given by Allah. To that end, this dunya is not the 'real' time line. It's fake. A delusion. A video game (of sorts) - no sane person would forget about his real life in order to immerse himself in a video game world thinking that is the real life, likewise no sane person ought to forget the true nature of the dunya.

With the above point understood, your comment on living once on Earth should be extended in a way different to what you intend - i.e. we only live once, we only have one test, one chance to avoid hell so better do good things and avoid bad stuff.

Who knows if were going to see the Technology again.
i. Technology in and of itself is not haram.
ii. If you get to paradise, you'll have anything your heart desires.
iii. In any case, in Jannah, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for something a human constructed from his limited perception on this Earth when you would have vast unlimited exciting items created for your pleasure by the All Powerful one true source of everything. I mean, you wouldn't give a second thought to an ant hill or a birds nest in comparison to the burj al arab? It's the same concept but multiplied by infinity. Allah is the creator. He created the intelligence with which humans have reached the pinacle of current technological achievements. Reflect on that. How could you miss the technology created by mere nothing (humans) when you'd have something from Allah in Jannah?

I mean I know alot of people who are really nice people. just trying to survive the harsh economy. People work all week long, shouldn't they have a day or two to relax and enjoy.
Why not?

One can enjoy and relax whilst being good Muslims too.

Just because people who don't believe the same as me and you believe doesn't make them a bad person. There are far more disbeilivers out there who are more nice then some Muslims I know.
If a Muslim is not being nice then he is not being a good Muslim. I agree, there are many decent and noble minded non-Muslims out there. However, a sinful Muslim still can gain Jannah after several thousand years of punishment in hell as long as he belives in Allah whereas non-muslims don't get that. Allah is just and full of mercy. He wouldn't put people through something that wasn't fair. Hence, one deduction that can be made is that Allah's existence and the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) is so so obvious that anyone who denies it deserves to be punished by Allah.
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M.I.A.
11-28-2012, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
I'd say less favorable than having multiple affairs and multiple kids out of wedlock.. strange world ain't it?
Perhaps if people were more honest with themselves and their partners they wouldn't be so worried about who is saying what behind their back!

best,
and stoned to death as per other thread if you have your way..

im kidding that is a different scenario as compared to actual wives.

but i guess id never cross that line... or even ask my own question.



i might sound like a complete spanner but the question was posed because of this...


Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Allah will not force you away from things that are inherent in you as a human
as for hitler,

he should have known the jews were around before even he was.

im sure they will find there holyland.

when they once again become a holy people.


...i know im "programmed" to hate but i guess once you look past the programming all thats left is the unchanging law, right?
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جوري
11-28-2012, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
and stoned to death as per other thread if you have your way..
If I have my way with what? I don't go around snooping on illegal sexual acts if that's what you're suggesting, maybe you should think before you write?

You don't seem very happy as a Muslim, and I don't think you actually understand the religion which begs the question why you chose this as your faith? I presume you a convert am I correct?
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'Abd-al Latif
11-28-2012, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
and stoned to death as per other thread if you have your way..

im kidding that is a different scenario as compared to actual wives.

but i guess id never cross that line... or even ask my own question.

i might sound like a complete spanner but the question was posed because of this...

as for hitler,

he should have known the jews were around before even he was.

im sure they will find there holyland.

when they once again become a holy people.


...i know im "programmed" to hate but i guess once you look past the programming all thats left is the unchanging law, right?
Bro, you possess minute fragments of information of which you seem to have understood none of. I'm not belittling you or anything but seriously you have to learn Islam before commenting on anything.

I also advise you not to leave everything to empiricism otherwise you're going to go around in circles for the rest of your life. This is even more evident when Allah says regarding this:

They know only the outside appearance of the life of the world (i.e. the matters of their livelihood, like irrigating or sowing or reaping, etc.) (Quran 30:7)

P.S

Let's put things into perspective: stoning to death is the law of Allah and not anyone elses.

P.P.S

Who's talking about Jews? I wasn't. I was talking about those who practise homosexuality. Where did the Jews come in all of this?
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M.I.A.
11-28-2012, 01:11 AM
why i chose islam?

i dont know?

could have ended up as anything, i just sort of woke up one day questioning my perception of my life.

..actually it was a question of not agreeing with something i was learning.. something taught to a lot of people as fact.

it made me realise that sometimes the truth is something people dont want to hear.


i really could have ended up as anything, but i was born into a muslim family so the first thing i picked up was the quran.

and it made sense in parts.

and it made me realise in the end that it really is the same thing repeated over and over throughout history..

just written differently.. which made me accept all the books and prophets (pbuh) and... you know the line.

and then that want for finding common ground in all things just took another delusional step.

but as much as you know, you realise that most peoples reach there own ends.

they dont change.

if they died and were resurrected a million times they would still be at each others necks.. you cant kill the devil.

you just make it a place where he doesn't live.

i know that as a muslim every strategy should be used against non-belief.


but i dont plan to spend my life crafting plans.. and i wont be a tool wantingly.

so yeah, a broken tool in the toolbox..

is hard work to use and nobodies favorite.
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'Abd-al Latif
11-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Enough with the pessimism. :heated:
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M.I.A.
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
sure, no more.

id go on to say we are what we have been through but..

i cant tell if i deserved it.

wont be putting anyone else through it, thats for sure.
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ardianto
11-28-2012, 06:20 AM
:sl:

I walked on tea plantation area in south of Bandung, and I enjoyed the beautiful panorama, then I walked to lake patengan and enjoyed the fresh lake air. After I felt satisfied I walked to a stall to drink bajigur, a traditional drink that made from coconut milk and palm sugar. I enjoyed this time, and I felt happy.

Does Allah forbid me to enjoy a pleasure like this?. No!.

Allah does not forbid human to enjoy dunya. Allah just made rule, which pleasures in dunya that human may enjoy, which pleasures in dunya that human may not enjoy. Dunya pleasures like gambling or drink alcohol are haram. But other dunya pleasures like bicycling, jogging, drink coffee or juice, are halal. Zina (adultery) is haram, but have intimacy with wife is halal.

Some pleasure in dunya are haram, but many pleasure in dunya are halal. So, if we have many choice of halal pleasure, why should we choose haram pleasure?.

We live in dunya once, but life in dunya is not the only life we have. There is another life after we leave dunya. Always remember it before we choose a pleasure.
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Amat Allah
11-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
There is another life after we leave dunya
and it is eternal too unlike the temporary dunya which you will take nothing from it to grave but your deeds...
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Innocent Soul
11-28-2012, 01:55 PM
Finally everyone came on topic.

As bro ardianto said there are many things in life that you can enjoy. Walking the garden, spending time with family, learning new things , eating some good food,
talking to an old friend...

"Seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of lawful enjoyment in this world, and do good as Allah has been good to you, and seek not mischief in the land. Verily, Allah likes not the mischief-makers"
(Quran 28:77)

Nor strain thine eyes in longing for the things We have given for enjoyment to parties of them, the splendour of the life of this world, through which We test them: but the provision of thy Lord is better and more enduring.
[Surah Ta Ha:131]

“Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion.”
(Surah Al-Hadid, Verse 20)
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-28-2012, 04:31 PM
bro CK one thing i've learned is that true enjoyment comes from rigorously abstaining from what is Haram.

When I am drawn into Haram I feel filthy, worthless, sinful, lacking and the list goes on. This is all with good reason as I know the effects of such Haram activities.

When I abstain I can feel the felicity, serenity, peace, build up of good atttributes and character etc.




so my question bro is have you actually tried a long time of abstaining from All Haram and indulging open mindedly and completely willingly in only halal.

I mean this in its deepest sense , IE no music/haram food/freemixing/shaving etc etc.

only if you have tried this can you understand its effect
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ck1986
11-28-2012, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
bro CK one thing i've learned is that true enjoyment comes from rigorously abstaining from what is Haram.

When I am drawn into Haram I feel filthy, worthless, sinful, lacking and the list goes on. This is all with good reason as I know the effects of such Haram activities.

When I abstain I can feel the felicity, serenity, peace, build up of good atttributes and character etc.




so my question bro is have you actually tried a long time of abstaining from All Haram and indulging open mindedly and completely willingly in only halal.

I mean this in its deepest sense , IE no music/haram food/freemixing/shaving etc etc.

only if you have tried this can you understand its effect
Why is Music Haram, I have been listening to Rap and Techno music for years know, and it hasn't turn me into a Gangster or a Pimp or a Drug Addict an Alcoholic.
I mean I just enjoy sitting and home after a long work day and listen to music
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-28-2012, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by ck1986
Why is Music Haram, I have been listening to Rap and Techno music for years know, and it hasn't turn me into a Gangster or a Pimp or a Drug Addict an Alcoholic.
I mean I just enjoy sitting and home after a long work day and listen to music
like i said bro. taste the effect of not listening for a long time. for example give it up for a month and just read quran. the difference will be immence
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White Rose
11-29-2012, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
like i said bro. taste the effect of not listening for a long time. for example give it up for a month and just read quran. the difference will be immence
I agree. I know listening to music does not seem harmful but what is actually happening? You are just creating this temporary feeling of happiness or excitement. What happens once the song ends? You end up being where you were before. You realize nothing has changed and you go back to listening to the song. This is what shaytan wants. To tempt you to think that sitting in a chair thinking about something with the help of music is worth more than actually living in reality.
From personal experience, the music leaves a hollowness which I cant describe. It leaves you seeking more. Once you start listening to Quran, the hollowness goes away and the ayahs start sounding so beautiful that music sounds like dirt next to it.
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greenhill
05-17-2013, 02:16 PM
I cannot imagine jannah. It's just too perfect. Eternal. Something that living in this world has made my mind totally unable to conceptualise. However, I won't question its shape or form or what else is there apart from the flowing rivers of milk and honey, and fine silk and beautiful companions etc. If Allah can design fantastic pleasures for me in this world, who am I to doubt that the hereafter will be less? It surely will be beyond my comprehension. So I try not to think of it too much.

But the question of Dunya, there is no law to stop you from also enjoying life on Earth provided that you do it in moderation, not to the point of forgetfulness, forgetting or neglecting responsibilities and that it becomes the overriding reason to live. The Dunya is real, we live on it, but it is not all. It is just a temporary abode. Sometimes the reminder of this fact becomes misconstrued to mean that we should not enjoy Dunya. :phew
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