Gay Mosque To Open In Paris

[jellybeans]

The first gay Mosque in Europe: http://news.yahoo.com/gay-mosque-ope...opstories.html

I didn't even know that "gay Mosques" existed! This is against Islam!
:omg: :(

' "The Unity" mosque will initially operate in a Buddhist temple in a neighborhood in eastern Paris, and will emphasize "accepting everyone as equally God's creation....I hope straight men will pray together with gay men and women, everyone," said Zahed who declines to make public the address of the venue, due to security concerns.'

"Zahed's mosque will honor some Islamic traditions, like Friday prayers (Jumu'ah), and the Muslim marriage contract (Nikah) to bless same-sex marriage. It will also perform funeral rites (Janazah) for those who have been denied a traditional Islamic funeral based on Sharia law because of their sexual orientation."

This line made me wince: :nervous:
"While it would be the first gay mosque in Paris, there are believed to be 21 other gay mosques sprinkled through the U.S., Canada and South Africa."
I live in South Africa...

Is this really what God wants?

The world, especially the WESTERN world is losing its morals... rapidly...

Please pray that "gay Muslims" will understand Islam fully and not try manipulate it...

Similar things are happening with Christianity, also.

Religion is NOT about convenience...

Religion is NOT a game...

[UmmuShaheed]

Asaalamu Alaikum
Subhanallah, this is utterly nauseating! Allah swt destroyed an entire qawm for this grave sin!
Its not a mosque, and thats not Islam.
May Allah swt guide the misguided!
Asaalamu Alaikum

[crimsontide06]

next thing you know people will be able to "allegedly" kill others and get away with it even though 100% of the evidence proves that they.... -ring ring- Oh hold on I have a call. hello?
Casey Anthony: You were saying??
A voice in the background,
OJ Simpson: Hey who you talking to Casey??
phone slams down.........

NEVERMIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(might want to google those names if you have never heard of them)

[جوري]

People can choose to label themselves 'Muslims' we already have the term defined by the pillars and tenets of Islam!
New people want to come up with new sects, again we shouldn't be bothered because we already know what the terms and tenets of Islam are.
People are going to draw pictures and name it so and so, but so and so aren't the beloved people we know from history- we can't go chasing fools but we can define the terms and conditions of Islam as well openly reject that which opposes it. But it is certainly not something we're going to lose sleep over.
I don't lose sleep over someone saying headaches should be treated with skillets. I find that mildly amusing in fact- we clarify that they're not treated in such fashion and we move. Do we need to justify our beliefs or apologize for them? Well NO we apologize for naught!
you either are or you aren't and that is all there is to it.

:w:

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[Aprender]

Delete it.

[crimsontide06]

yes, because killing each other is a part of natural selection

people CHOOSE to kill

people CHOOSE to lay in bed with a member of the same sex (which is now becoming an accepted norm)

I'm terrified that soon, killing will become an accepted norm.

[ba51th]

I even ever spot a group that saying "things that prevent us from killing each other is the law, if there is no law we will definitely doing it" and "murdering someone else should be legal"

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

maybe someday they will understand.
maybe Allah will put light in their darkness.
maybe they will then see the truth.
we all sin.
who has no worries to meet Allah on Qiyama?
maybe someday, someone from there will be better Muslim than us.
Allah knows better than me.

if Ernest thinks they need to be real Muslim,
what about Ernest?
if Ernest fear gays in Paris,
what about fearing Allah in heaven?
is gay worse than shirk?
if Ernest knew words of Jesus, pbuh,
"judge not lest you be judged"

if Ernest wants crusade, let him call Pope
if Ernest wants what is correct, let him call to Allah,
la ilaha ilallah, muhammadur rasulullah
if religion must be "correct" then it must be Islam!!!

if religion is just game, have 3 gods. worship a man. follow pagan ways.
if not, ONE WAY! ISLAM!

May Allah guide us all to the straight path!

ma salaama

[glo]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?
Or should they not worship/pray to Allah at all?
Does Allah listen to their prayers and shows his mercy to them too?

Do any of you know (openly) gay/lesbian Muslims who attend your mosque? (I say 'openly', because there may be some which simply don't make their sexual orientation known). If so, how do feel about them? Are they welcomed into mosque?

[YusufNoor]

they would probably be deader than a doorknob.

if only we could be this outraged at ourselves when we sin.

maybe we would get somewhere then.

now, we are like scum on the water.

maybe some of those people have one good deed that is better than all of mine put together.

maybe they cared enough to give the water to the thirsty dog.

Allah knows best.

i know nothing...

[Tyrion]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?
Or should they not worship/pray to Allah at all?
Does Allah listen to their prayers and shows his mercy to them too?

Do any of you know (openly) gay/lesbian Muslims who attend your mosque? (I say 'openly', because there may be some which simply don't make their sexual orientation known). If so, how do feel about them? Are they welcomed into mosque?

If someone is attracted to members of the same sex, they can still be Muslim. They can still go to the regular mosque, and pray to God knowing he still hears them. If someone goes a step further and engages in sexual activity outside the bounds of marriage, then he can STILL be Muslim, gay or not. He can still go to the mosque and pray. He just does so as a sinner. it's a major sin, but still "just" a sin. If he chooses to be open about his sexual choices and tries to suggest that it's okay for him to have sex with men, then he can expect to hear a lot of people letting him know that what he's doing is wrong, but I don't think they have the right to ban him from a mosque or reject him as a person (which seems to, sadly, be the response towards many homosexuals by religious folks).

The problem with a lot of these "gay mosques" is that they seem to promote the idea that being involved in homosexual activity is accepted in Islam and isn't crossing any boundaries. I'm not sure if they explicitly do this though, since I'm not too familiar with any of them or any gay Muslims. I think it's prudent to also see this as sort of a failure on our part, since we (the religious majority) have vilified the idea of homosexuality so much that people who consider themselves gay feel completely isolated and unwelcome.

[Futuwwa]

There is only one mosque in Paris despite a grave need for more, and despite efforts to get another one built, but it tends to always get blocked by bureaucratic bigotry. But now, when gay Muslims wanted a mosque, it apparently got the go-ahead. You know me as someone who doesn't lightly call conspiracy, but even I smell one here.

[Futuwwa]

If someone is attracted to members of the same sex, they can still be Muslim. They can still go to the regular mosque, and pray to God knowing he still hears them. If someone goes a step further and engages in sexual activity outside the bounds of marriage, then he can STILL be Muslim, gay or not. He can still go to the mosque and pray. He just does so as a sinner. it's a major sin, but still "just" a sin. If he chooses to be open about his sexual choices and tries to suggest that it's okay for him to have sex with men, then he can expect to hear a lot of people letting him know that what he's doing is wrong, but I don't think they have the right to ban him from a mosque or reject him as a person (which seems to, sadly, be the response towards many homosexuals by religious folks).

The problem with a lot of these "gay mosques" is that they seem to promote the idea that being involved in homosexual activity is accepted in Islam and isn't crossing any boundaries. I'm not sure if they explicitly do this though, since I'm not too familiar with any of them or any gay Muslims. I think it's prudent to also see this as sort of a failure on our part, since we (the religious majority) have vilified the idea of homosexuality so much that people who consider themselves gay feel completely isolated and unwelcome.

What Tyrion said. It is better to be a gay Muslim than not be a Muslim at all. Faggotry may be sinful, but it's hardly kufr.

[Independent]

The problem with a lot of these "gay mosques" is that they seem to promote the idea that being involved in homosexual activity is accepted in Islam and isn't crossing any boundaries.

A fair point from a very good post. It does give that impression.

Being homosexual, and a Muslim, is a tough option.

[YusufNoor]

Tyron nailed it.

[Hulk]

The issue is mainly people making halal(permissible) what has been made haram(forbidden).It's also important to first define what is meant by gay, though in the case of the post I think it's obviously means those who practice homosexuality. I mean if a muslim does that and still practices Islam, and he acknowledges that those acts are haram then at the end of the day is a muslim though he might be disobedient. But when you do a sin and say that it is halal then that is an even greater sin.

It is a major sin to make halal what is haram, and to make haram what is halal.

[جوري]

A 'gay Mosque' is probably nothing more than a meeting place for lewdness - A 'leftist/Marxist/imam' gave a khutba to the atheist opposition in Egypt yesterday- some terms together are oxymorons. as stated repeatedly having feelings isn't a sin acting on them whether homicide/ homosexuality/kleptomania is!
Allah swt creates us on fitrah- folks make their choices afterwards just what kind of human beings they wish to be. The 'Mosque' is nothing more than schemes of the west and their allies inside the Muslim world to reform Islam, and as I said in my original post the terms & conditions of being a worshiping/practicing Muslim are already defined and not subject to amending!

:w:

[ba51th]

looks like some people said it's better to be gay muslim rather than not become a muslim, I wonder what muslim response when they see a group of people that call themselve muslims and kill many innocent non-muslim in the name of Allah, isn't it's better become muslim terrorist rather than become non muslim?

[Hulk]

It's better to be a muslim than a kaffir no matter what you do. Of course it doesn't mean that if I were to encounter a muslim being oppressive to a non-muslim I wouldn't stop him, as what he is doing is wrong.

[جوري]

I'd have to know the details of said 'terrorism' Hamas was considered a terrorist group yesterday and today by concensus they're freedom fighters. The terms are meant to be deragatory by an opposition - as they say one country's freedom fighter is another country's terrorist!
I don't think one can identitfy themselves as gay and Muslim. The term already expresses action- one can have gay feelings or inclinations and not act on them and I don't know in such a case what they'd be called but if they're not practicing then why would they so want to be defined? why would they want a meeting place of worship? it automatically denotes that it is ok to be openly gay and Muslim- and it isn't!
It is nothing to be proud of frankly nor something to advertise and especially not something to flash in the face of God openly!

:w:

[ba51th]

what I mean brother hulk, as far as my knowledge about Islam, people that kill innocent will get death penalty, and people that practice homosexual act will get death penalty as well, in my thought both of them are wrong, but why some people said it's better be a muslim gay rather than be kafir? so we muslim just let other muslim in our community practice homosexual without punishment?

[Hulk]

Sorry bro I'm not sure I get what you're saying. It's better to be muslim than a kaffir in any case because if you're muslim you can repent, and even in the hereafter you might still be saved if you're among those who hold to tauheed(Oneness of God).

PS: Don't take the reasons I state as THE reasons as it's merely from my own understanding. Perhaps the best reason is because it means you didn't reject what you know to be true.

[Endymion]

107. And as for those who put up a mosque by way of harming and disbelief, and to disunite the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ) aforetime, they will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good. Allah bears witness that they are certainly liars.

9. Surah At-Taubah (The Repentance)

[جوري]

107. And as for those who put up a mosque by way of harming and disbelief, and to disunite the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ) aforetime, they will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good. Allah bears witness that they are certainly liars.

9. Surah At-Taubah (The Repentance)

Sob7an Allah talk about transcendence of the noble Quran.. I have been memorizing suret at'tawbah for a long time now and still some verses it is always like hearing them for the first time!

[Endymion]

it is always like hearing them for the first time!

Yup,the loveliest things are that it never gets old and it connects you no matter which time you are in.I also wish to memorize the Quran one day in sha Allah :statisfie

[glo]

The problem with a lot of these "gay mosques" is that they seem to promote the idea that being involved in homosexual activity is accepted in Islam and isn't crossing any boundaries. I'm not sure if they explicitly do this though, since I'm not too familiar with any of them or any gay Muslims. I think it's prudent to also see this as sort of a failure on our part, since we (the religious majority) have vilified the idea of homosexuality so much that people who consider themselves gay feel completely isolated and unwelcome.

That is a very thoughtful comment, Tyrion.

I was wondering along the same lines. Perhaps it is the mainstream believers (and I mean Christians here as much as Muslims) who make feel homosexual people unwelcome or ostracized or excluded - and thereby push them into looking for more inclusive groups ... or eventually go and start their own.

If homosexual people felt comfortable and welcomed in their own faith communities, they would arguably not feel the need to start a gay-friendly mosque/church ... :hmm:

This BBC article contains a video interview with Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed - the guy who started the mosque in Paris.

[truthseeker63]

You can not be Gay and Muslim both at the sametime it is either one or the other it's a choice pick one.

[sister herb]

I am not sure about this but what if someone knows he/she is a gay but doesn´t act as gay (as having sex with same gender), can´t he/she be a muslim? If gay says shahada, he becomes muslim, right? But what if he still feels he is gay... or do you think that saying shahada change him heterosexual in his mind?

^o)

[UmmuShaheed]

Being gay is an enormous sin, whats worse is being gay and saying its not Haraam, that god created people that way. Subhanallah.
But about being Muslim and Gay, I personally dont believe those two words can coexist.
Allah Knows best.
Asalamu Alaikum.

[sister herb]

Yes, thats good to remember:

Allah knows the best.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

What is going on here, is an attempt to change Islam.

The founder of the mosque himself, is "married" to a gay Muslim man, and will perform same sex "nikah" (when marriage in Islam is between a man and woman only):

The new centre is run by Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed, a gay Islamic scholar, married to a gay man

Mr Zahed's South African gay husband has encountered similar problems.

Zahed's mosque will honor some Islamic traditions..... and the Muslim marriage contract (Nikah) to bless same-sex marriage

And did anyone read this utter obscenity about our beloved Prophet :saws: in the link given by the OP?

Zahed believes, if the Prophet Mohamad was alive today, he would marry gay couples.

and their next step, in his own words, is to have mixed congregations where men and women pray next to each other, and then no doubt after that, will be a female imam:

He is also trying to integrate the sexes in Islam. He wants men and women to be able to pray together, not just "gay and straight".

Zahed will be one of three prayer leaders, along with a female French convert to Islam

We are missing the bigger picture, and main point here, and instead are getting drawn into a debate about homosexuality.

This isn't about being inclusive or not, nor is it even actually about homosexuality, but in the wider picture, an overt attempt to change Islam according to ones whims and desires, and then still claim to be Muslim and still claim to be unwelcome and to be victimised.

That is the bottom line, and there isn't much else to say than may Allah guide them.

I really hope that in the light of the obscenity (in red) said about our beloved Prophet :saws:, out of respect for our nabi and beloved prophet :saws: that we let this thread die a lonely death right now.

Some quotes from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20547335

[sister herb]

What about this (relating to idea as being gay but not act as gay)?

On the authority of Ibn Abbas that the messenger of Allah, among the sayings he relates from his Lord is :

"Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones." Then he explained it [by saying that] :" He who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed."

Related by Bukhari and Muslim in their two salihs

[GuestFellow]

A happy mosque? =)

Moving on, many Muslims do and preach whatever they want. This is one of them.

[truthseeker63]

I would think if a gay says Shahada he or she would than change and stop being gay and become ex gay former gay gays can repent or change. There are ex gays who marry the other sex and have children and a family and live a normal life. Would a ex or former or homosexual who wants to reform and change be allowed to say shahada and become a Muslim Im guessing it is possible but Im not sure are ex drunks or people who used have sex outside of marriage allowed to become Muslims I don't know ? If a non Muslim used to be gay in the past and changes and wants to be a muslim and straight and normal Im sure they could change correct ? Also in Western Society there are many ex gays who are straight anyone aware of this thank you ?

Islam promotes the beauty of the creation of the male-female pair, which is the basis for humanity's growth. Homosexual relationships go against the natural order and harm both the individuals involved and society at large. They have been forbidden by the Creator, as detailed in both the Qur'an and the Bible.


Nowadays, however, there is a strong
agenda (especially in the West) to promote same-sex relationships as being equal
to inter-sex ones in terms of health and morality. Television programmes, for
example, are becoming increasingly 'liberal', exposing the public to more
explicit images as well as messages. As Muslims, we decry this degeneration,
which only demonstrates the lack of moral grounding our society
has.


http://straightway.sinfree.net/

[Pygoscelis]

If homosexual people felt comfortable and welcomed in their own faith communities, they would arguably not feel the need to start a gay-friendly mosque/church ... :hmm:

I doubt that is possible so long as a central point of the religion continues to be to call them abominations. It would be like a black man joining the KKK wouldn't it?

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

What is going on here, is an attempt to change Islam.

:wa:

Some really believe Islam accepts homosexual sex and use some verses to support their thinking. There needs to be an argument that is well constructed to inform them that homosexuality is not allowed in Islam.

[truthseeker63]

I don't hate Homosexuals/Gays/Sodomites I just detest the evil character shown by the wicked thing they are constantly doing.

[Pygoscelis]

I don't hate Homosexuals/Gays/Sodomites I just detest the evil character shown by the wicked thing they are constantly doing.

I think they take breaks for refreshments and interior decorating. ;D

[GuestFellow]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homosexualit...4409080&sr=8-1

^ Has anyone read this book?

[truthseeker63]

Homosexuality is wrong in Islam end of story anyone claiming Islam allows Homosexuality just has a political agenda like a liberal/progressive/left wing agenda no Muslim I have ever met or known would say Homosexuality is accepted in Islam.

[CosmicPathos]

its by some --- named scott. When I read that anglo-saxon name, I stopped reading further. Dont trust every revert, there are moles amongst us. We need to squish squish squish em.

Like this golden eagle

[islamica]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homosexualit...4409080&sr=8-1

^ Has anyone read this book?

Product Description

Many Islamic authorities claim that homosexuality is categorically forbidden, but the reality is much less clear-cut. There are no verses in the Qur'an that unambiguously condemn homosexuals, and there are some that suggest they can be tolerated in Muslim communities. In addition, reports from Hadith that condemn homosexual and transgender persons are of dubious authenticity. This pioneering work is the first to tackle this complex and controversial issue from a religious perspective. Scott Kugle critically engages with scripture, law, and tradition to examine the foundations for prevailing attitudes towards homosexuality in Islam. Arguing that Muslims can reconcile themselves with the inevitable diversity in society without compromising their principles, Kugle makes a forceful case for a renewed Islam that accepts all followers, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

About the Author

Scott Kugle is the first Muslim to publish widely on the issue of homosexuality and Islam. An independent research scholar in Islamic studies, he has previously held positions at Duke University, the University of Cape Town, and Swarthmore College.

['Abd-al Latif]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?

Is it better – or even ok – for gay Christians, who undoubtly exist, to do the same in their churches? I thought Christianity forbade homosexuality in all its forms? Well Islam is no different and I nor my religion see any reason for a compromise. They want to build a mosque and recite the words of the One who has said this:

And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: 'Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in all of mankind and jinn?' (Qur'an 7:80)

The one who is gay and Muslim has no idea what he's even following. These people probably come out with rubbish like "God won't judge us" when God has condemned their behavour in His own words!

[truthseeker63]

Gay Muslim is a Contradiction.

[truthseeker63]

Trying to reinterpret the Quran and the Hadith to say Homosexuality is allowed to fit a political agenda is wrong it is no diffrent from the Christians and Jews who try to reinterpret their Bible and Texts to say Homosexuality is not a sin a crime and evil. 50 to 70 years ago in the Western World no Christian or Jew accepted Homosexuality. It was not untill the 1970's that Christians and Jews in the West starting to accept Homosexuality even than it was only a small number of Christians and Jews. All 3 Religions that believe in the God of Abraham the God of Israel the God of Jacob none of these Religions accept Homosexuality in fact look at this verse below.

Lev.20

[13] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/...V1&byte=407964

[truthseeker63]

Homosexuality is Anti Human Anti Children and Anti Procreation.

1. Homosexuality injures the fabric of society, especially children.
A societal acceptance of same sex relationships gives vulnerable children the impression that same sex relationships are good, moral and healthy. Not only does the Bible condemn such behavior, but medical professionals have affirmed that these kinds of sexual relationships are unhealthy. A society that accepts immoral relationships cause children to stumble into immorality. Jesus Christ said that “if anyone causes one of these little one’s to stumble, (sin) it would be better if he put a mill stone around his neck and throw himself into the sea.” Matthew 18:6 Acceptance of these unnatural acts sets a society up for gender and sexual confusion, which brings about widespread immorality, which tears the family down.


2. Homosexuality is anti procreation.
Logically speaking, if everyone’s sexuality was expressed heterosexually, then humanity will survive and perpetuate our own kind for generations to come. But simply put, if everyone’s sexuality was expressed homosexually, we would go extinct. Therefore homosexuality is counter productive to the survival of the human race.

3. Homosexuality does not offer the stability of a traditional family.
Children need the stability of a traditional family. Children need a real male Father and a female Mother for proper and healthy development. Naturally speaking, there is the necessity of each of the male and female contributions to a child’s life. (It has already been proven that boys without fathers end up in jail and practice destructive behaviors a great deal more than those who have fathers.) The vast majority of the public knows instinctively that it would be better if both parents are present in a child’s life. Once concealed research shows that a child who is brought up in a homosexual home may be more likely to engage in homosexuality. But is it loving to expose children to the predominantly damaging lifestyle of homosexuality? If homosexuality can be learned, what does that say about the argument that people are born that way?

http://unsettledchristianity.com/200...hurts-society/

[truthseeker63]

If all Humans were Homosexuals than the Human Race would go Extinct.

['Abd-al Latif]

107. And as for those who put up a mosque by way of harming and disbelief, and to disunite the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ) aforetime, they will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good. Allah bears witness that they are certainly liars.

9. Surah At-Taubah (The Repentance)

I was thinking of exactly the same thing. This ayah is in reference to Masjid Al-Dirar (The Mosque of Harm) which was burnt down by te Messenger :saws1:

I wonder if the same ruling applies here.

[truthseeker63]

I believe Homosexuality is desired by Satan the Devil. Satan is the Enemy of Humanity. Satan knows he can try to destroy Humanity by trying to influence Humans to be Gay or Homosexual. Don't let Satan influence you. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

[Pygoscelis]

If all Humans were Homosexuals than the Human Race would go Extinct.

Why would all humans become homosexuals?

Perhaps in Mohammed's time we had a shortage of humans so those who don't reproduce were doing a disservice. But today, we have no underpopulation problem. If anything its the opposite.

[GuestFellow]

---

Back to being serious.

I think Muslims need to show more consistency in their attitudes towards sin.

[sister herb]

Surely being homosexual and muslim is contradiction - and confusing situation to themselves and others too. But being something and acting by that kind of habit is still very different matter.

I wouldn´t say about anyone who is muslim and who is not; I prefer leave that matter to Allah only.

If I would like to make a sin (what ever kind of) but don´t do it, does it make me sinner?

[جوري]

wow 11 members and 2 guests for this thread?

• 'Abd-al Latif
• ba51th
• CosmicPathos
• GhareebInshalla
• GuestFellow
• Hulk
• Pygoscelis
• sister harb
• truthseeker63
• Tyrion

:haha: slow news day? turn on your TV .. so much going on in Egypt & syria

:w:

[GuestFellow]

If I would like to make a sin (what ever kind of) but don´t do it, does it make me sinner?

I'll put it this way. There are some clients at work I would love to kill and drain the life out of them. But I don't. Does that make me a murderer? :statisfie

[sister herb]

You are right sister. This seems to be endless discussion. Better go to looking for dreams to my bed.

:exhausted

[truthseeker63]

Many Liberals I have met claim Homosexuality is good and Nature's way to have population control or stop the world population from getting too big since Homosexuality is used to stop the population from growing I will say it is wrong and should never be promoted. The Woman below in this video gives her views on Homosexuality she is correct.

what muslims want 4/7

Channel 4's documentary. Dispatches Monday 07 August 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSfpzTtOtx8



Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2w2TRxSLxw

[truthseeker63]

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(1of2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3U2g...8&feature=plcp

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(2of2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04zQQk01RU

Jihad against the Gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fv86Xk5ldQ

[GuestFellow]

Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2w2TRxSLxw

...Ah wut? O_o

[CosmicPathos]

Alex jones voice ... ugh. I'd rather listen to frogs croaking.

['Abd-al Latif]

Why would all humans become homosexuals?

Perhaps in Mohammed's time we had a shortage of humans so those who don't reproduce were doing a disservice. But today, we have no underpopulation problem. If anything its the opposite.

I assume you haven't learnt how reproduction works?

[White Rose]

What have we humans become...

[Independent]

Whatever the exact situation for homosexuality in Islam, you have to consider that those Muslims who have gay feelings have no choice about the matter. Being born both gay and Muslim is categorically not a good lifestyle option. More than in any other society, homosexuality in a Muslim state is not just difficult but often actively dangerous to life and limb. This should tell you something, For homosexual Muslims, they feel gay because of something in themselves, not just because of 'bad character'.

The feelings can't be prevented. Perhaps some of them may possibly be able to stop themselves from acting on them. Imagine if you were told, as a small child, that you will never be permitted to have any emotional or physical relationship with another person. Maybe you could do it, maybe not.

You should also consider that it's only by sheer luck one way or the other that they, and not you, are gay. i don't want to get into a debate about the 'gay gene', it's not important. Whether the reason for homosexuality is biological or environmental, they still have these feelings and they are as complete and overwhelming as your heterosexual feelings. No matter how disastrous it will be for their lives, And in defiance of the strongest possible incentive not to be gay.
Even if the law tells you it's wrong, you don't have to be vicious about it in your own mind. The only reason you aren't gay too, is chance.

(Just to head off any childish replies to this, I am not gay myself, I am married with a family.)

[جوري]

They're not told you can never have feelings or emotions toward another person what a completely failing analogy - we ARE allowed to love we are not allowed to be lewd and that applies to both homos and heterosexual!
Do you jump the first woman you've feelings for and rape her because you can't help how you feel?
---

[جوري]

What have we humans become...

الحمد لله many of us choose the dignity الله سبحانه وتعالى conferred upon us while others prefer their base instincts prefer to behave and act like animals and insist that we're nothing but animals acting on every impulse!
That's their prerogative, it's certainly not ours and this is nothing more but a war of words to cover every conceivable vice with a cloak of honor- so fight it!
Islam is the last ideology left to say it like it's and lay out the ground rules why do you think they fight it so much?

Pedarests also can't help it neither can the necrophiliacs so let's have a mass orgy for deviants!
They want to be a literal ---- for one another they don't need a mosque to approve their behavior - Allah swt told us in the noble book of the people of Lut or what book will they use to justify their inclinations? !

[ba51th]

I wonder why you should make a statement that you are not gay, if indeed gay is normal to you, you don't mind if people thought you are gay, because there is nothing wrong with gay

you know, I'm handsome, but I don't mind if people call me ugly, because there is nothing wrong with ugly face

[جوري]

It's simply flashing it in the face of everyone no more no less it's true if they found this behavior normal they wouldn't need the constant advertisement would they? Heterosexuals don't have parades and advertise their bedroom behavior if you really just wanted to worship then what's the point of bringing gay or prostitute into it? Kinda defeats the point of seeking forgiveness from sins of the flesh in whatever form!

[Independent]

They're not told you can never have feelings or emotions toward another person

But that is exactly what some people seem to be saying here. Some responses are portraying the emotional attraction itself as sinful, not just the act. Yet the emotion is (in most cases) something they can't help, no more than someone else can help being heterosexual.

Yes, it's different if they act on it. But to restrain from action for your whole life must be astonishingly difficult. I wonder how many of us could manage that, if we were tested? If you believe Islam says it must be punished, that's one thing. But you should know that only chance stands between you and the person being punished.

I'm suggesting that having violently anti-gay feelings yourself is not right because you are attacking someone for something that they cannot prevent. (The feelings, not the actions.) You can follow the rules of Islam (if that's what they are) without feeling such violence towards them.

However, i can understand why people would oppose the idea of a homosexual mosque. That's going beyond personal issues into a public statement.

I wonder why you should make a statement that you are not gay,

If you argue for 'understanding' for homosexuality, then sooner or later someone accuses you of being gay yourself. I just thought I'd get that out of the way beforehand.

Strangely enough one of my best friends at school was a gay Muslim, which in retrospect was a remarkable thing. Girls loved him and he tried to go that way, but he felt nothing. Yet his elder brother was as rampant a heterosexual as you could wish. (Well, a bit too rampant.)

[جوري]

But that is exactly what some people seem to be saying here.

People can say whatever- it isn't a fact anymore than what you peddle here is a fact!
the facts are those religious and scientific. We learn about homos from the DSM (psychology) not in genetics and we learn what is acceptable in religion from the Quran and sunnah not the web- so hopefully that will take care of the long and short of your queries!

then sooner or later someone accuses you of being gay yourself.

That's your own preemptive attack toward a topic you're sensitive about. This subject is about a so-called gay mosque, not your feelings, not your inclinations, not the friends you've known. I have had two patients who were gay and gotten married (to members of the opposite sex) so it isn't as crippling an emotion as all that- if we're going to go by personal experience!

best,

[Independent]

People can say whatever- it isn't a fact anymore than what you peddle here is a fact!

Then why wasting time answering for them?

We learn about homos from the DSM (psychology) not in genetics

As I said, the genetics/environment issue doesn't matter. Their feelings are overwhelming and we can't tell them they don't have them.

I have had two patients who were gay and gotten married (to members of the opposite sex)

Yes, many such marriages used to happen in the west too. Frequently disastrous for the other partner.

[جوري]

Then why wasting time answering for them?

it is an open forum!

As I said, the genetics/environment issue doesn't matter. Their feelings are overwhelming and we can't tell them they don't have them.

That's --- - as I asked you before do you go on raping women because the feeling becomes 'overwhelming' for you? :haha: also no one said they can't have feelings so you're simply going in circles!

Yes, many such marriages used to happen in the west too. Frequently disastrous for the other partner.

I'll wait until the disaster rate is reported in the annals of psychiatry before we reach the same conclusion!

best,

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

Subhanallah, the never ending thread.

here's the deal, ANY sex outside marriage is haram. (i guess, unless you own some slaves. but i couldn't explain that properly cuz...well i don't understand it) the only marriage formula is for man and a woman.

would the Prophet, pbuh, have performed gay marriage? uh, NO!!! but if someone knew him or the companions, they knew REAL Muslims. People with iman and taqwah. we don't have that today. just a bunch of people running around claiming to be Muslims. in the beginning of Islam, Muslims actually attracted people to Islam. today, we are the cause of people rejecting it. a more accurate statement might be, we are the cause of people not giving Islam a second thought.

can people think they were born gay? ABSOLUTELY! it is incorrect, but that is what they think. just because (they think) they are gay, does not make them monsters. they aren't "corrupt" on purpose. just gay...

the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a Prophet amongst them, Lot, pbuh. thus, they were rejecting GOD, and they performed homosexual acts. the people today ARE NOT rejecting GOD. they are rejecting us! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

we don't represent God properly. is that their fault or ours? if you ever wondered why Abu Bakr or Umr ibn al Kittaab feared Qiyama, this should cause Muslims A GREAT DEAL OF ANXIETY. we can assume they represented Islam properly. what about us?

those Muslims teaching it is OK to be gay, well, they have a bit of a problem on Qiyama as well. the Prophet, pbuh, came to perfect good manners, enjoin good and forbid evil. just running around "forbidding evil" is NOT our job description. we have to learn the other 2 parts.

let's learn to be good Muslims. let's learn to portray Islam properly. let's learn some good manners. let's FEAR ALLAH! Maybe we can do some good then. all the people, well not all- i'm making a point here, that we proclaim to be "evil" might get to Jannah a lot quicker than we do. WHY? we taught misguidance rather than guidance. those people didn't reject Islam, they rejected us. imagine Judgment Day, and it is YOUR FAULT that many people rejected Islam.

if we claim to be Muslims, let us at least try to do it properly. WE should know better.

think about it.

ma salaama

[جوري]

Subhanallah, the never ending thread.

That's how the devil perpetuates his agenda through his agents!

:w:

[Pygoscelis]

I assume you haven't learnt how reproduction works?

Did you misread the text you quoted on purpose? Perhaps if you read it again, knowing that yes I know homosexual unions won't produce children, you may just see my point.

[جوري]

The whole 'population explosion' myth is nothing more than a fiction created by a group of elitists with a sense of entitlement they see it best to enslave 90% of the world so they can put billions in swiss banks at the blood and sweat of others. In fact you can fit 7 billion people in a place the size of Texas and everyone can have a house and a backyard. Much of the earth's surface is uninhabited in fact and enough resources to go around is properly utilized for the good of all not for the good of 1%!

[ba51th]

oh yes, if you should know, girls loved me too, but I'm more prefer to not go to detail, because I'm afraid I will make a fitnah about myself, I'm afraid women think that I am such a bad men that think loved by girls is something to show off to other, that girls is nothing but such kind of trophy of my achievement.

if I should go to detail, that's mean I will tell everything that those girl already trust me to keep it to myself, I don't like to have an attribute of hypocrite people, where they make promise they will break it. and I'm happy to keep their privacy only to myself.

[Pygoscelis]

The whole 'population explosion' myth is nothing more than a fiction created by a group of elitists with a sense of entitlement they see it best to enslave 90% of the world so they can put billions in swiss banks at the blood and sweat of others. In fact you can fit 7 billion people in a place the size of Texas and everyone can have a house and a backyard. Much of the earth's surface is uninhabited in fact and enough resources to go around is properly utilized for the good of all not for the good of 1%!

He said that the human race would go extinct if we were all homosexual. There is no risk of us all going that way, why would we? And the human race is growing exponentially. We do not face extinction due to low breeding rates. A few homosexuals are not going to make us extinct. You could actually increase homosexuality dramatically in humans and we still would not be endangered. It is a ridiculous argument.

When the instinctual sense of disgust most of us have towards homosexuality came to be (by evolution or by God or whatever) we actually were very low in number and this argument would have made sense, and perhaps that is why we have this disgust reaction in the first place, but times have changed and it no longer makes a whole lot of sense.

[Independent]

just because (they think) they are gay, does not make them monsters. they aren't "corrupt" on purpose. just gay...

Absolutely, that's exactly what I'm saying.

the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a Prophet amongst them, Lot, pbuh. thus, they were rejecting GOD, and they performed homosexual acts. the people today ARE NOT rejecting GOD. they are rejecting us! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

A challenging idea and I think there is a lot of truth to it.

[Pygoscelis]

This thread started out promissing, with sensible thoughts and arguments being made, but unfortunately it descended into bigotry.

It is one thing to say you find homosexuality disgusting and that you would never engage in it. It is one thing to say your religion doesn't accept it and that any muslims accepting it are not real muslims as far as you are concerned. But it is quite another when you cross the line and preach hate against homosexuals or call for violence against those who engage in homosexual sex.

You guys are muslims, so I ask you to consider how you feel when those who are not muslims preach hate and violence against you merely for your beliefs and rituals. How do you feel when you see seething hatred like with "burn a Koran day" or when you see people dismiss Palestinians or Iraqis etc as people worth caring about because they are muslims? How do you feel when people say you should be ashamed of being muslim and that if you must have such feelings, then at least don't act on them. I stand with you against that. And I stand with homosexuals against you for the exact same reason.

You ask why are there gay pride parades? I am amazed that there are not more gay militants given how gay people are treated.

[جوري]

He said that the human race would go extinct if we were all homosexual. There is no risk of us all going that way, why would we? And the human race is growing exponentially. We do not face extinction due to low breeding rates. A few homosexuals are not going to make us extinct. You could actually increase homosexuality dramatically in humans and we still would not be endangered. It is a ridiculous argument.

When the instinctual sense of disgust most of us have towards homosexuality came to be (by evolution or by God or whatever) we actually were very low in number and this argument would have made sense, and perhaps that is why we have this disgust reaction in the first place, but times have changed and it no longer makes a whole lot of sense.

Everyone has their own theory as to why this is immoral. I am not obliged to put a human explanation over a divine decree.
also if we're increasing at an exponential rate we're also dying at an exponential rate.. it is a matter of perspective. None of us 7 bil of us on this earth are going to be here a hundred yrs from now.. yes even if the Japanese come up with something- and you simply don't know what the future holds from natural or man made disasters to perpetuate the survival of this specie.. cockroaches are more successful at reproduction than we're!


best,

[جوري]

preach hate against homosexuals or call for violence against those who engage in homosexual sex.

Who has preached hate or violence here per your opinion? If we're going to go by very narrow definitions that you propose here then by the same token every homosexual preaches hatred and violence against heterosexuality!


best,

[glo]

Is it better – or even ok – for gay Christians, who undoubtly exist, to do the same in their churches? I thought Christianity forbade homosexuality in all its forms? Well Islam is no different and I nor my religion see any reason for a compromise.

Well, we have a number of gay people attending our church. If I listen to them, they don't always feel made welcome by everybody, but on the whole I think as a congregation we are welcoming.

Do we (Muslims and Christians) not invite 'sinners' into our places of worship? If I look around our congregation on a Sunday morning, I don't expect that there is ANYBODY who is perfect or has not messed up in some way or another (and that includes the clergy!)
That's the reason why we begin each service with a confessional prayer, in which we declare to each other and to God that we have "sinned against God and each other in word, thought or deed".

If I have had uncharitable thoughts, have gossiped about others, have lied and been dishonest in other ways, but just so happen to be heterosexual - can I really claim to be better than homosexual friends?

A couple of my gay Christians friends are more godly and caring and theologically sound than I will ever be!

I'd rather not dare judge them, and let God be the judge of all instead. :)

[جوري]

Do we (Muslims --------) not invite 'sinners'

We Muslims don't showcase our sins nor should we be proud of them. People who go in to repent don't usually make their sexual escapades known. They certainly don't erect architecture and label it after said sin.
I really wish you'd quit being a voice for the devil.. at least if you're going to do so, then leave Islam out of it!

best,

[CosmicPathos]

Well, we have a number of gay people attending our church. If I listen to them, they don't always feel made welcome by everybody, but on the whole I think as a congregation we are welcoming.

Do we (Muslims and Christians) not invite 'sinners' into our places of worship? If I look around our congregation on a Sunday morning, I don't expect that there is ANYBODY who is perfect or has not messed up in some way or another (and that includes the clergy!)
That's the reason why we begin each service with a confessional prayer, in which we declare to each other and to God that we have "sinned against God and each other in word, thought or deed".

If I have had uncharitable thoughts, have gossiped about others, have lied and been dishonest in other ways, but just so happen to be heterosexual - can I really claim to be better than homosexual friends?

A couple of my gay Christians friends are more godly and caring and theologically sound than I will ever be!

I'd rather not dare judge them, and let God be the judge of all instead. :)

What a definition of godliness! Hitler was doing God's work too and so were clergy when molesting young boys.

How can a faggot be a "godly" person, just cuz they can cite more verses? How can a murderer be a godly person? That is what you are implying here.

When we sin, we dont boast about it or not feel good about continuing to indulge in it. How dare you compare our sinfulness with faggotry?

[glo]

We Muslims don't showcase our sins nor should we be proud of them.

I am not talking about showcasing your sin.

I am talking about allowing sinners into our places of worship.
Do you have to be perfect and free of any fault and sin before you are allowed into your local masjid?

Are our churches and mosques not places where sinners can come, pray, ask God for forgiveness and leave in the hope and desire to do better?
Is it for us to say who is and isn't worthy to enter and seek God?
Should we dare claim that we can make such a judgment of God's behalf?

I really wish you'd quit being a voice for the devil.. at least if you're going to do so, then leave Islam out of it!

I've never been called that before. LOL ;D

[جوري]

I am not talking about showcasing your sin.

I am talking about allowing sinners into our places of worship.
Do you have to be perfect and free of any fault and sin before you are allowed into your local masjid?

Are our churches and mosques not places where sinners can come, pray, ask God for forgiveness and leave in the hope and desire to do better?
Is it for us to say who is and isn't worthy to enter and seek God?
Should we dare claim that we can make such a judgment of God's behalf?

And I have already answered that for you. How would any of us know the sin of another unless they were advertising it? erecting structures so named after it!

I've never been called that before. LOL

Really? that's we get in this brave new world.. political correctness and walking over egg shells to sugar coat vice and fear and complete withdrawal from a word of truth!

[glo]

How dare you compare our sinfulness with faggotry?

I dare do exactly that!

If we think we are any better, just based on our sexual orientation, then we can add PRIDE and HAUGHTINESS to our already existing list of sins.

Must go and cook dinner now. I expect by the time I come back this thread will be so long, that it won't be worth picking up the pieces. :D

Goodwill and God's peace to all humanity. :)

[jellybeans]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?
Or should they not worship/pray to Allah at all?
Does Allah listen to their prayers and shows his mercy to them too?

Do any of you know (openly) gay/lesbian Muslims who attend your mosque? (I say 'openly', because there may be some which simply don't make their sexual orientation known). If so, how do feel about them? Are they welcomed into mosque?

I know what you mean... but this Masjid allows gay marriages... and Zahed encourages people to be gay, as the Qur'an supposedly doesn't say anything against it--according to the article's words, not mine.

So this mosque is not all about having a place for those who are rejected at other mosques. He is leading people away from Islam--manipulating it.

He is not as innocent as he sounds.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

I haven´t found from opinions of Glo "a voice for the devil" but more as "a voice of tolerance".

But better stop from me this endless "discussion" for this. Any ways, Allah knows the best and only He can see to our hearts - not other people.

Salam to all.

[jellybeans]

The problem with a lot of these "gay mosques" is that they seem to promote the idea that being involved in homosexual activity is accepted in Islam and isn't crossing any boundaries. I'm not sure if they explicitly do this though, since I'm not too familiar with any of them or any gay Muslims. I think it's prudent to also see this as sort of a failure on our part, since we (the religious majority) have vilified the idea of homosexuality so much that people who consider themselves gay feel completely isolated and unwelcome.

I agree :thumbs_up:thumbs_up

[جوري]

"a voice for the devil" but more as "a voice of tolerance".

Not much difference between the two at times!

[jellybeans]

A fair point from a very good post. It does give that impression.

Being homosexual, and a Muslim, is a tough option.

Its not an option...

However if you are a "recovering gay" and want to be a faithful Muslim and turn your back on this evil and seek help, then you are a true Muslim.

Unless, of course, you want to make up your own sect...

[jellybeans]

You can not be Gay and Muslim both at the sametime it is either one or the other it's a choice pick one.

Yes! You have to accept your religion as a WHOLE...

and not just bits and pieces of it.

[jellybeans]

:sl:

What is going on here, is an attempt to change Islam.

The founder of the mosque himself, is "married" to a gay Muslim man, and will perform same sex "nikah" (when marriage in Islam is between a man and woman only):







And did anyone read this utter obscenity about our beloved Prophet :saws: in the link given by the OP?



and their next step, in his own words, is to have mixed congregations where men and women pray next to each other, and then no doubt after that, will be a female imam:





We are missing the bigger picture, and main point here, and instead are getting drawn into a debate about homosexuality.

This isn't about being inclusive or not, nor is it even actually about homosexuality, but in the wider picture, an overt attempt to change Islam according to ones whims and desires, and then still claim to be Muslim and still claim to be unwelcome and to be victimised.

That is the bottom line, and there isn't much else to say than may Allah guide them.

I really hope that in the light of the obscenity (in red) said about our beloved Prophet :saws:, out of respect for our nabi and beloved prophet :saws: that we let this thread die a lonely death right now.

Some quotes from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20547335

Thank you so much, for summing everything up.

I certaintly agree with you on "an overt attempt to change Islam according to ones whims and desires, and then still claim to be Muslim and still claim to be unwelcome and to be victimised."

If you are a Muslim, you can't claim that you are unwelcome and victimised.

Accept Islam as a whole

[MustafaMc]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?
Or should they not worship/pray to Allah at all?

glo, I understand there are homosexuals in your church and that you most likely have a fondness for them despite their openness about their sexual orientation. Given the Biblical and Quranic stories about the people of Lot's city, I think we can agree homosexuality is a most grievous sin. If a person is a homosexual and he denies that it is sinful behavior, I don't believe he should expect to be accepted with open arms by those who believe it is an abomination and despicable behavior. If a Muslim is a homosexual, an adulterer, given to watch pornography, a thief, an alcoholic etc. and he wants to pray in a masjid, then fine let him come, but he shouldn't come unrepentantly and openly flaunting his sin and expect other Muslims to follow him as imam or even to pray along beside him.

Do any of you know (openly) gay/lesbian Muslims who attend your mosque? (I say 'openly', because there may be some which simply don't make their sexual orientation known). If so, how do feel about them? Are they welcomed into mosque?

I do not know any homosexual Muslims and if any of the Muslims I know are homosexual, then they keep it to themselves. I also do not know any who watch pornography, drink alcohol, or are fornicators/adulterers. The first prayer that a homosexual should pray is for forgiveness which is open to all upon repentance, even to those who commit shirk.

[jellybeans]

http://straightway.sinfree.net/

Thank you for the valuable link!

[jellybeans]

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(1of2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3U2g...8&feature=plcp

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(2of2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04zQQk01RU

Jihad against the Gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fv86Xk5ldQ

More of those anti-gay demonstrations are needed.

[Ramadhan]

Is it better for gay Muslims (who undoubtedly exist) to have a place where they can worship and pray freely (if - as the article suggests - they don't always feel welcome in other masjids)?
Or should they not worship/pray to Allah at all?
Does Allah listen to their prayers and shows his mercy to them too?

Do any of you know (openly) gay/lesbian Muslims who attend your mosque? (I say 'openly', because there may be some which simply don't make their sexual orientation known). If so, how do feel about them? Are they welcomed into mosque?

Please tell me if there is a mosque that does not allow gays to perform ibada (pray, read qur'an, etc)?

Glo, I sometimes wonder what your intention is.