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truthseeker63
12-05-2012, 01:19 AM
Can anyone refute the Christian analogies for the Trinity when they use a Triangle or Shamrock ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle
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جوري
12-05-2012, 01:23 AM
We reject Christianity not for their analogies- those can get quite amusing.. we reject it for the lack of logical consistency, lack of textual integrity, lack of cohesiveness of the core tenets and lack of harmony with Abrahamic religion. It isn't the faith that any prophet brought so it stands out quite monolithic and it doesn't really matter how colorful they get to explain it, their religion becomes more in harmony with pagan ideologies than monotheism.

:w:
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YusufNoor
12-05-2012, 01:51 AM
first of all, why are you wasting your time and ours?

second, a triangle? an isosceles triangle, you mean. as in all 3 sides equal? is just a geometric shape, it isn't a god. i've never seen a triangle create.

a shamrock is a flower. are they saying their god is a flower? it can't grow without sunlight. do their gods need sunlight to exist? rain?

c'mon, these are easy. but what is your purpose?

ma salaama
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Logikon
12-05-2012, 02:46 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Can anyone refute the Christian analogies for the Trinity when they use a Triangle or Shamrock ?

The thing about Christians ( and for that matter we athiests) is that we will say: "Your belief will not pick my pocket nor break my bones. I don't worry about your belief untill it does so"


Why can't you say the same thing? Why do you have to refute their belief?

.
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Eric H
12-05-2012, 08:51 AM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

Allah has chosen you through Islam and to have a faith and trust in him you have to do something through Islam.

God created shamrocks, triangles and water that can also be ice and steam, but these things won’t explain the nature of God. You need to look towards all the names of Allah, compassion, love, forgiveness etc; to try and understand his nature.

In the spirit of praying for faith and trust

Eric
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ardianto
12-05-2012, 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Can anyone refute the Christian analogies for the Trinity when they use a Triangle or Shamrock ?
Assalamu'alaikum.

Now you are Muslim aren't you?. It's better if you focus to learn Islam.
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sister herb
12-05-2012, 09:26 AM
^^ I agree with that. Better learn more about Islam than looking for some mystical meanings about shamrocks. Yes most of them have three leaves but what about those one whose have four? What they then should symbolize?



;D
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ardianto
12-05-2012, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by sister harb
Yes most of them have three leaves but what about those one whose have four? What they then should symbolize?
Four leaves clover symbolize good luck for those who find it accidentally. This belief is true and logical..!!.

.

.

There are only 4 four-leaf clovers for every 10,000 three-leaf clovers. Of course, only those who are lucky who can find four-leaf clover accidentally, because probability to find it is 1 : 2,500.

:D
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Muslim Woman
12-05-2012, 10:58 AM
:sl:

Al-Kafiroon | 6 verses | The Disbelievers

Say: (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar)!
2 "I worship not that which you worship,
3 "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4 "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5 "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6 "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."







Listen Quran Recitation
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truthseeker63
12-05-2012, 02:48 PM
I found my answer here.


What is not the Trinity?

Most of Christians use some incorrect examples to show the Trinity, like:
1. Triangle: some of Christians believe: as in a Triangle three sides make one Triangle, so the same in Trinity, three Gods make one God.
In this description of trinity, each side is only a side not a triangle, while in Trinity each person has his own substance, so the correct example is to imagine three Triangles which make one Triangle.
2. Water: Some others say: as the water can be in three forms, (the steam, the ice and the liquid form) while the water is one, so God also can be in three personalities, while He is one!
This description is also wrong, because here the water is one, which converts to different forms, but in Trinity the three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) never convert to each other! Meanwhile the God would never change to different forms, as water does!


http://www.real-god.com/en/is-trinity-possible
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truthseeker63
12-17-2012, 10:39 PM
I have found a good answer the question you can't compare God to anything to creation or to man made creations like a tringle. God can never be compared to a shamrock time a ocean the sun a flower water therefor all these Trinity Analogies will never work this is why many Christians just say that the Trinity is a Mystery also I believe the reason why Christians come up with these Analogies is because they believe that Jesus is a God Man therefor they compare God to his Creation. Christianity does have some truths in it since Christianity believes in many of the Prophets but Christianity is truth mixed with falsehoods Christianity claims to be Monotheism but Christianity is Polytheism it is Paganism and Idolatry 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 Not 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 which what the Trinity is saying in Math terms also Christmas and Easter are Pagan Holidays and the Trinity is Pagan the idea of a Man God is Pagan and the Trinity is 3 gods if I had 3 persons Bill Jim and Bob are these 3 humans 1 human what if they were the same family many Christians use these Analogies or they say when a Man and Woman marry each other they become 1 like the Trinity.

What does the Holy Quran say about Jesus (peace be upon him)


According to Islam, Jesus never died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was born to die on the cross. Muslims believe that Jesus was sentenced to death, and people thought that he got executed on the cross. The Holy Quran rejects this idea, and claims that it is a false one. Jesus never died on the cross, nor he ever died for anyone's sins. Let us look at what the Holy Quran (The Muslims Holy Scripture) says about this issue:

http://www.islamawareness.net/Christ...oes_quran.html


The fundamental truth of the Bible is that God is One. Any teaching that in any way appears to deviate from or undermime this profound truth must be very firmly substantiated. The doctrine of the Trinity pretends to be such a teaching, yet it is entirely absent from the entire Old Testament. This doesn't make sense.

Mortality and Immortality are mutually exclusive characteristics. If Jesus is God, he couldn't have really died, for God is immortal by nature. Likewise, if Jesus died, he couldn't really be God, for God cannot die. Immortality is not a fluctuating quality! A being is either mortal or immortal. You can't have it both ways with this. Either Christ died, and he is mortal, or he's God and can't die. Pick one alternative, as holding both is simply untenable. Traditional Christians typically respond to this point with the idea stated above in the introduction, that Jesus was fully human and fully God. But look at the next point.

For the temptations of Christ to have been in any way real, there had to exist the possibility that he sin. If Christ is God, it is impossible that he could have sinned, for God is perfect by nature. Jesus pointed this out in Mt 19:17, marking the distinction between himself and God (only ONE is good...).
If Christ was God, and therefore couldn't sin, all his 'temptations' were faked, and his identification with mankind a cruel sham! And for those affirming the 100%/100% idea, do you really see God locking Himself into a nature that could potentially sin? Finally, James explicitly states that God cannot be tempted by evil (1:13-15).

http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_nature.htm




"Say: He is Allah,
The One and Only.
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

http://www.islam101.com/tauheed/conceptofGod.htm







nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

http://quran.com/42/11

Trinitarians do Worship Three God's
By Sami Zaatari









Trinitarians often like to claim that they have a monotheistic belief, and that the Trinity is not the worship of 3 Gods rather it is the worship of One God. Basically they say the Trinity doctrine is as follow:

1- God is made up of 3 persons

2- The three persons are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

3- All three persons are distinct from each other, The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father etc.

4- Each person in the Trinity has a role of their own

5- Jesus is the Son in the Trinity

So basically that is the dogma of the Trinity.

Now let us show exactly why Christians do in fact worship three God's. As I said, the Trinity is made up of THREE people, these three people are all different than one another, it is basically exactly like having 3 people in an office, Tom Dick and Harry.

Now Christians say that Jesus is God, the Father is God, and so is the Holy Spirit. So therefore if you have three people, and each one of them is God then what are you left with? You are left with THREE Gods! This is logic!

If Tom Dick and Harry are each managers, how many managers do you have? You have three! Remember Trinity has THREE different persons, and each person is God, therefore you have three Gods and not one, there is no way around this mess.

http://www.answering-christianity.co...three_gods.htm

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YusufNoor
12-17-2012, 11:30 PM
:wa:

Brother, there's no need for you to work so hard at this. some Christians say that Jesus IS the Father because they are both God. they may be different, but they are the same.

NO Christian can can give a logical explanation that makes sense to you, me or even the majority of Christians. the Trinity is called a mystery by Paul. people don't believe it because they understand it. they DON'T understand it, but that is OK to them. that is what a "mystery" is. IF you could explain it logically, it wouldn't be a mystery.

it is OK for to to try to understand it, but the proper thing is just to explain tawhid. learn the 3 categories of tawhid; tawhid ar rubbubiyya. tawhid al asma was sifaat, and tawhid al ibadah.

tawhid ar rububiyya is maintaining tawhid in respect to Allah Rabb. He is the creator, sustainer, maintainer, healer, ect of all that exists. Christians say that Jesus created the world. we KNOW that is incorrect. we know Allah is Rabbil Alamin.

tawhid al asma wa sifaat is maintining tawhid inrespect to the Names and Attributes of Allah. Christians say Jesus will do the judging on Judgment Day. we KNOW Allah Maliki yawmid Din.

tawhid al ibadah is maintaining tawhid in respect to worshipping Allah. prayer is worship. Christians pray to Jesus, some pray to Mary and some pray to a plethora of deceased human beings. we KNOW this is wrong. Iyya' k'nabudu wa Iyya k'nesta'im.

learn that, then explain it. THAT is what we do. learn and understand tawhid, and you can explain why aspects of Christianity are wrong. rather than try to figure the logic to some "mystery", explain LOGICALLY why they are wrong. it can save you a lot of breath.

ma salaama
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Futuwwa
12-18-2012, 11:37 AM
There is no need to refute any analogy. An analogy is simply a descriptive device, it is not a proof of anything.
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Eric H
12-18-2012, 03:34 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

Mortality and Immortality are mutually exclusive characteristics. If Jesus is God, he couldn't have really died,
I am not sure I understand Immortality, when we die we have the chance of eternal life, does that make us immortal also?

In the spirit of searching.

Eric
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truthseeker63
12-19-2012, 03:49 AM
Our immortal souls and chance of eternal life was and is given to us human beings by God.
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Abz2000
12-19-2012, 05:11 AM
Saturday is Sunday too, so don't worry, just have faith.
Go back to the council of nicea and you'll realize how they used the appearance of a scholarly debate to ramrod through a pagan themed mutation of the truth which was sent to them.
The pagans of Rome used to have Sunday as the special day, and they decided to keep it that way, they just called it sabbath (Saturday) instead in order to fit in with scripture.

A question for the theologians:
If Saturday is Sunday......then what is a spade?
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