EBook: Black Flags from the East - any basis?

[- Qatada -]

EBook: Black Flags from the East

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I just saw this on ummah forums, does it have any basis, especially on the issues of modern day events leading upto the end time battles?

[جوري]

I haven't read this particular book above but have been reading this:
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Book...0The%20End.pdf

which covers the army from Khurasan not the one the rafidas claim but from the traditional point of view.. I have to say that we really have a battle ahead.. the corruption is so deeply seeded and the mercenaries are so heftily funded that it doesn't matter how much I feel like keeping my spirits up looking at the battle field I feel so down =(

[جوري]

I am almost done reading the book. I found it interesting.. much of the beginning of it, is based on personal accounts of those who lived them so I can't comment on the 'basis of it' but I do agree heavily with this portion:

3 Main Players forming in the New World Order:
In the world regarding Jerusalem, there are 3 main world players forming;
1- the European Union - the new modern Crusaders.
2 - Muslims in the Khurasan (greater Afghanistan) & Middle East,
3 - Christians (neo-conservatives) allying with Zionists (who are awaiting a Jewish king
[who Muslims consider as al-Dajjal (the AntiChrist)]).
1 - The Modern European Union Crusader Hooligans, & the difficulties practicing
Muslims will face in the West:
Europeans are becoming poorer and more violent and bitter due to the credit crunch
and austerity measures which bail out banks using the publics money (when it was the
zionist banks which cheated on their own people in the first place.)
Europeans want to release their anger of poverty onto someone, with the Zionist media
portraying Muslims as the enemy - the public is releasing their anger and becoming
more hostile to practising Muslims, wanting to expel them from their lands.
European media has started a new campaign, using words like 'Crusade' generously to
adjust their people back to the 1000 year old mentality of a war against the Middle East
'Saracen' Muslims.
Crusade type titles are subtle and often used for sports clubs which raise national pride,
or as a metaphor, but reusing the phrase hints at a psychological trick to get Europeans
to get back onto the old mindset of a war against Muslims.
Many Western armies also have Bible verse numbers imprinted on their weapons, which
makes the soldiers feel they are fighting a religious war. Reports in mid 2012 also
suggested that US army institutes were teaching soldiers of a global war against Islam
and of bombing the Ka'bah (located in Makkah - the holiest site in Islam), although this
was later denied by the teachers.
Whatever the case, the Crusader mentality amongst Europeans will gradually grow, in
addition to poverty, bitterness targetted against a now practising Muslim (3rd
generation) immigrants, and a return to Christianity as a replacement to materialism.


and from that point on it gets interesting..

[CosmicPathos]

we live in interesting times. Things are moving at such a fast pace that any action we will take will have rippling effects generations down who come after us. Lets make sure we take actions which instead of sending ripples create tsunamis down the road. Actions in our personal lives, professional lives, social lives etc. Let's direct the collective effort towards what is right, instead of being consumed by modern understanding of personal space, personal whims/desires, "soft" heartedness for the kufaar/humans/humanism.

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[- Qatada -]

I am almost done reading the book. I found it interesting.. much of the beginning of it, is based on personal accounts of those who lived them so I can't comment on the 'basis of it' but I do agree heavily with this portion:

3 Main Players forming in the New World Order:
In the world regarding Jerusalem, there are 3 main world players forming;
1- the European Union - the new modern Crusaders.
2 - Muslims in the Khurasan (greater Afghanistan) & Middle East,
3 - Christians (neo-conservatives) allying with Zionists (who are awaiting a Jewish king
[who Muslims consider as al-Dajjal (the AntiChrist)]).
1 - The Modern European Union Crusader Hooligans, & the difficulties practicing
Muslims will face in the West:
Europeans are becoming poorer and more violent and bitter due to the credit crunch
and austerity measures which bail out banks using the publics money (when it was the
zionist banks which cheated on their own people in the first place.)
Europeans want to release their anger of poverty onto someone, with the Zionist media
portraying Muslims as the enemy - the public is releasing their anger and becoming
more hostile to practising Muslims, wanting to expel them from their lands.
European media has started a new campaign, using words like 'Crusade' generously to
adjust their people back to the 1000 year old mentality of a war against the Middle East
'Saracen' Muslims.
Crusade type titles are subtle and often used for sports clubs which raise national pride,
or as a metaphor, but reusing the phrase hints at a psychological trick to get Europeans
to get back onto the old mindset of a war against Muslims.
Many Western armies also have Bible verse numbers imprinted on their weapons, which
makes the soldiers feel they are fighting a religious war. Reports in mid 2012 also
suggested that US army institutes were teaching soldiers of a global war against Islam
and of bombing the Ka'bah (located in Makkah - the holiest site in Islam), although this
was later denied by the teachers.
Whatever the case, the Crusader mentality amongst Europeans will gradually grow, in
addition to poverty, bitterness targetted against a now practising Muslim (3rd
generation) immigrants, and a return to Christianity as a replacement to materialism.


and from that point on it gets interesting..

:salamext:

We're living in really strange times.. may Allah help us, ameen.

[جوري]

I think it's exciting - it's true that there's so much harj and marj but there's no going back now the wheels are set in motion! Allah swt is making us see and making us choose so there's no doubt now!

[Periwinkle18]

JazakAllah will read it inshaAllah

[Jedi_Mindset]

I have read a bit yesterday and even though there are parts i dont agree with. We live in times where events are happening never witnessed before. With massive technology and a few khazar elitists who have managed to control the world through banks and resources, colonizitation of the whole world.

the events today are preparing you for the next stage, wake up, open your both eyes and work on your imaan.

[Independent]

Once again, you see only what you want to see. This isn't religion it's pure politics.

Europeans want to release their anger of poverty onto someone, with the Zionist media
portraying Muslims as the enemy

Financial hardships have hit many areas of Europe. This places society under stress. People are looking for someone to blame. One of the groups they find are immigrants. Some of those immigrants are Muslim. That’s as deep as it goes.

In the Asian financial crisis the Chinese diaspora were particularly targeted. It’s a sad but typical human response to pick on convenient minorities. It’s not nice, but it’s not especially to do with being a Muslim.

There have been many other more important social responses to this crisis but you don’t pay any attention to those because they don’t fit your preconceived vision. Suffice to say, this crisis has nothing fundamentally to do with Christianity versus Islam.

European media has started a new campaign, using words like 'Crusade' generously to
adjust their people back to the 1000 year old mentality of a war against the Middle East

Wrong. The word ‘crusade’ is coming back into usage mainly because people like you are always on about it. If it’s in the media, it’s because you have worked so hard to put it there.

Until recently the Crusades were an obscure, dimly remembered part of history. Major countries like the US did not even exist until long after they were over. Today, the Suez Canal is of vastly more geopolitical interest to Europe than Jerusalem.

How is it that people can protest that the west do not understand the word ‘jihad’, when you so grossly misunderstand the word ‘crusade’? For hundreds of years it has been used simply to mean ‘going on a mission or being wholly dedicated to achieving something’. It can be totally trivial, it’s not even specifically religious or military. I might say I’m ‘going on a crusade’ to tidy up my house. This does not mean I’m going to spring clean in a spirit of Islamophobia. Stop telling me what my own language means.

reusing the phrase hints at a psychological trick to get Europeans
to get back onto the old mindset of a war against Muslims.

No it doesn’t, unless you live in an insane conspiracy theory universe (which you do, of course). Clearly, because of the last few years, people are becoming aware that some Muslims react to this word in a very strong way. As a result the old meaning is being reactivated. You are the one trying to reactivate old mindsets. Because for you, war is desirable.

In the world regarding Jerusalem, there are 3 main world players forming;
1- the European Union - the new modern Crusaders.
2 - Muslims in the Khurasan (greater Afghanistan) & Middle East,
3 - Christians (neo-conservatives) allying with Zionists (who are awaiting a Jewish king

This is rubbish. It sounds like a second rate plotline for Star Wars as adapted by Goebbels. You take old names, old geopolitical entities, and stick them on modern ones. And if this particular mapping doesn’t work out in the next few years….no matter! You’ll simply put the label on the next suitable candidate. Easy!

Zero political insight. Except into the heads of other warmongers like yourself.

I think it's exciting - it's true that there's so much harj and marj but there's no going back now the wheels are set in motion!

What is it about the prospect of mass violence that excites you so much?

[جوري]

Once again, you see only what you want to see. This isn't religion it's pure politics.

Politics and religion are indivisible as far as Islam is concerned- hence the west's obsession with fostering 'moderate' Muslims which basically means hypocrite Muslims who don't practice of have reduced Islam to a weekend/holiday relic-- it also explains McCain's failure of understanding what it is about Tahrir' square that made it so successful so when he mobilizes his agents to recreate the picture using the opposition it becomes an epic fail!

Financial hardships have hit many areas of Europe. This places society under stress. People are looking for someone to blame. One of the groups they find are immigrants. Some of those immigrants are Muslim. That’s as deep as it goes.

That's the linear one step simplistic conclusion yes- people often react to said stress not merely make a mental note of it!

In the Asian financial crisis the Chinese diaspora were particularly targeted. It’s a sad but typical human response to pick on convenient minorities. It’s not nice, but it’s not especially to do with being a Muslim.

This is irrelevant to the topic - it is as if I were to bring the chinese oppression of Muslims in here for the sole purpose of creating an exit byway and take the focus away from the subject at hand!

There have been many other more important social responses to this crisis but you don’t pay any attention to those because they don’t fit your preconceived vision. Suffice to say, this crisis has nothing fundamentally to do with Christianity versus Islam.

It has everything to do with Christianity and Islam.. the only social responses the west knows is by subjugation and oppression!
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...tealth-crusade
sadly you live in a bubble and wish to drag as many unsuspecting souls into it along with you!

Wrong. The word ‘crusade’ is coming back into usage mainly because people like you are always on about it. If it’s in the media, it’s because you have worked so hard to put it there.

In fact you're wrong:
Dutch lawmaker brings his crusade against Islam to conservative


Michele Bachmann's Crusade Against Islam

Christian are fighting Holy Crusade Against Muslims and Islam in


Crusade Against Radical Islam - YouTube


Europe cringes at Bush 'crusade' against terrorists


8:41 George Bush the crusade against Islam -

Military schools teach war against islam



Soldier Who Taught 'Total War' Against Islam










thus rendering all you've written above by way of mindless drivel! What are you trying to do here? have the Muslims asleep while you perpetuate your agenda? or are you really that clueless?
and lastly you do realize that I didn't write the book? Got to be painful though the entire ME is getting out of hands.. though America is trying to go in at the 11th hour into Syria- all of a sudden they're concerned about 'chemical weapons' being used against civilians and after 30,000 deaths...
we can't all be as flat as you're when we paint the complete picture of what is going on!

[Scimitar]

Are the black flags spoken of in the hadeeth supposed to rise after the Uqaab has been recognised? or before?

The Prophet used flags of different colors in different Ghazwat (campaigns commanded by the Prophet) and Saraya (campaign commanded by any Sahabi). The major flag of the Prophet was known as "Al- Uqaab", it was pure black with and without symbol or marking.

Later:When Makkah was conquered the flag was Black flag with white banner [La ilaha ill Allah muhammadur rasool Allah]

Sunan of Abu-DawoodHadith 2586 Narrated byJabir ibn Abdullah When the Prophet (peace be upon him) entered Mecca his banner was white. Al-Tirmidhi HadithHadith 3887 Narrated byAbdullah ibn Abbas The Prophet's standard was black and his banner white. Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it.

There Is not a single Islam country which has Flag like the Flag of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.Because there is not a single Islamic country.Saudi Arabia is Riba[Interest] based economy.She has abandoned Jihad.Malaysia is interest free without capital punishments & Iran an interset free but a Shia/Islam Nation.

So there is not a single Islamic country on the face of the earth.

Muslims did had an Islamic country some years back when Taliban ruled Afganistan.
Their flag was white and banner was black,There are many prophesies about Taliban.www.geocities.com/hadithprophesies/worldwars

Taliban ruled most of Afghanistan from 1996 until 2001, the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia recognised legitimacy of their government Mullah Mohammed Omar, was called Ameer ul mumineen[the leader of the believers] just like the khulafah-e-rashideen [pious calips] were adressed.

Islamic law
The Taliban instituted a form of Shari'ah (Islamic law). The Taliban's reform of government was in part directed by scholars of Islamic law. Among the laws applied were criminal punishments, administered by a religious police force, including amputation of one or both hands for theft and stoning for adultery.Hijab for women,beard for men,Women were strictly limited in their ability to work in public places.Before Taliban came to power,women used to be kidnapped,mullah Omar was among those who used to rescue women. However, they were allowed to set up their own businesses from their houses; they were also permitted to work in certain medical positions so they could treat female patients. Women could not work if they had a baby, in which case they had to stay home and care for their children. The Taliban believed women should stay home in order that their children did not have to grow up in the care of another, and also believed that work is the duty of the male in the house and to reject this duty was haraam.

The Taliban religion minister, Al-Haj Maulwi Qalamuddin, told the New York Times that "To a country on fire, the world wants to give a match. Why is there such concern about women? Bread costs too much. There is no work. Even boys are not going to school. And yet all I hear about are women. Where was the world when men here were violating any woman they wanted?"

The other problems plaguing Afghani women were the result of dire poverty, years of war, the bad economy, and the fact that many were left war widows, and could no longer provide food for their families without some sort of international aid. Taliban banned opium poppy cultivation in late 1997 though it was source of income.Narcotics traffickers were arrested and prosecuted.

Buddhas of Bamiyan were destroyed as idols are not allowed in Islam because Afganistan became an Islamic state.[Saud supported it]



Black Banners from Khurasan (Afghanistan) to Jerusalem:

Taliqan (a region in Afghanistan) that at that place are treasures of Allah, but these are not of gold and silver but consist of people who have recognised Allah as they should have. (Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-zaman, p.59)

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.ns...N?OpenDocument
On 11 September, after Taleban forces reportedly declared Taliqan town and its surrounding villages military zones, some 18,000 people living in the villages of Ganj Ali Beg, Sarai Sang, Khatayan, Qazaq, Ahan Dara, and Shurab were forced to abandon their homes in search of safety.

Khurasan is Afganistan:


At the time, when the Muslim Ummah will have abundance of wealth, gold and silver, the Muslims will be extremely belittled, weak and helpless. The enemy nations will invite each other to pounce upon them as hungry people invite one another for food. The Sahabah (R.A) asked with utter worry, "O Prophet of Allah! Would we be very few in number?" Prophet Muhammad (S) replied: "No! You’d be as great in quantity as the foam of the sea is, seen wherever the eye can reach. But you’ll be overtaken by ‘wahn’." The Sahabah (R.A) asked, "O Prophet of Allah! What is ‘wahn’?" He (S) replied: "Love of this world and fear of death!" You’ll join hands with a Christian group and war with another. You’ll gain victory. At that time, you will be present in a plain of great mountains with plenty of trees. In the meantime, the Christians will raise the crucifix and refer the victory to it. At this, a Muslim will become angry, and will pull the crucifix down, at which, the Christians will unite breaking all treaties with the Muslims. (Note: The Hindus have announced the breaking of all the treaties signed with Pakistan.) The Christians will demand their wanted people, to which the Muslims will answer: "By Allah! They are our brothers. We will never hand them over." This will start the war. One-third Muslims will run away. Their ‘Tawbah’ (Repentance) will never be accepted. One-third will be killed. They will be the best 'Shaheed' (martyrs) near Allah. The remaining one-third will gain victory, until, under the leadership of Imam Mehdi, they will fight against Kufr (non-believers). This group will belong to Khurasan (ancient name for Afghanistan). They will be wearing black turbans. People will rise up from the East who will keep on coming forward, trampling the ground under the feet, to the aid of Imam Mahdi (Alayhis-Salaam) to help establish his government. (Ibn Majah) From Khurasan will emerge black flags, whom none will be able to turn back (and they, the flag bearers, will continue moving forward) till they reach Illya (Jerusalem) and embed their flags into its earth (Tirmizi) In the era preceding Qeyamah the Christians will control/govern the whole world. The Christians will reach Khyber.
(Place in present day Saudi close to Madina. US forces are already positioned there)
(Hadith quoted in Bab-al-Qeyamah by Muhaddith Shah Rafee-ud-din RA)".

So, which black flag army? :)

So many taleban groups today, all working independently + other rebel groups all sport the black flag.

I think it's too soon to tell, even with all the current events going on today, it's too soon to tell. I'm of the opinion that the Uqaab has to be handed over to the Mahdi AS and only then will we know which of the armies are actually the one prophesied about.

And Allah knows best.

Scimi

[Independent]

It has everything to do with Christianity and Islam..

So to prove that the meaning of the word Crusade hasn't been reinvented in the last 30 years you give me a bunch of quotes from...the last 30 years. Nope. Nothing proved there.

You cherry pick whatever you want from history and current affairs to fit your pre-existing world view. If you search hard enough, you can find evidence for pretty much anything you want. There's always some lunatic out there that will say what you want them to say.

Why are you constantly pushing for and celebrating violence? Why do you mock anyone, Muslim or otherwise, that suggests any form of peaceful solution? You're always saying other people have secret agendas - what's yours? How is it that you are able to spend sooooo much time here?

[جوري]

So many taleban groups today, all working independently + other rebel groups all sport the black flag.

The book delves into that a bit if you're interested it is only 80 some pages a half an hour read max depending on your speed!

:w:

[جوري]

So to prove that the meaning of the word Crusade hasn't been reinvented in the last 30 years you give me a bunch of quotes from...the last 30 years. Nope. Nothing proved there.

I don't need to put a label on something obvious. Also this has always been known to us as 7arb salyibya- different colors same thing.. why do you enjoy the road of semantics when at a loss for something substantive? Don't use this word it irks the brits, define for me this term.. grow up!

You cherry pick whatever you want from history and current affairs to fit your pre-existing world view. If you search hard enough, you can find evidence for pretty much anything you want. There's always some lunatic out there that will say what you want them to say.

does this not apply to you as well?

Why are you constantly pushing for and celebrating violence? Why do you mock anyone, Muslim or otherwise, that suggests any form of peaceful solution? You're always saying other people have secret agendas - what's yours? How is it that you are able to spend sooooo much time here?

Is a peaceful solution possible? a peaceful solution of a two state working in Palestine or the Israelis still colonizing? Also what's it to you how or where I spend my time? Again, if you don't have anything of substance to impart, then quit wasting our time with word definition, usage of words, or what I am doing with my personal time!

best,

[Scimitar]

I've got book of the end, the problem is - some narrations are not as strong as others. Nothing is very clear cut in it.

My question still stands.

I am of the opinion that the banner can only be recognised by the Muslim world after the Mahdi AS has been given the original Uqaab of the Prophet pbuh. The banner (Uqaab) is currently in the possession of the Topkapi Palace in Turkey.

Shaikh Nazim (naqwshbandi sufi shaikh) is of the opinion that the banner has already been given over to someone. But that's not entirely true, a little research shows us that the banner was given to a man for safekeeping - a family. However, this was posted on the WUP over a year ago... I don't have access there anymore so :D whether the banner is in topkapi or somewhere else, is anybodies guess at this point.

RE: the Banner / flag, this is interesting:



The banner in the video was sewn subsequently and contains fragments taken from the old banner. The old banner is not on show to the public.

The flag and ensign are one of a society's most important symbols. Both symbolize that community, from the smallest unit to the largest.

There is one flag whose significance and importance distinguish it from others. This is the Banner of the Prophet (saas), a legacy from our Prophet Muhammad (saas) known as "Uqab" (The Eagle). It has been a symbol of Islam for the past 1400 years. The Prophet (saas) always went into battle with Uqab.

For Arab tribes, the banner falling to the ground meant defeat. In the event of such a disaster, the troops would accept their defeat and flee. For that reason, when the ensign-bearer was wounded or died, the next person in line to carry it was determined before the battle even begun, far in advance, and he would immediately take charge of it in the event that this happened to the ensign-bearer.

Our Prophet (saas) commanded that all the flags to be used should be white. However, Uqab was black. Another difference between this ensign and others was that it was made of a woolen fabric.

Prior to Islam, this flag, used by the Quraish tribes was of a unifying importance for all Arabs. All the tribes, at that time, united under this banner during the spread of Islam. Apart from this banner of our Prophet's (saas), there were many other flags belonging to the army, but Uqab was specific to the office of commander-in-chief. Following the spread of Islam and the death of our Prophet (saas), the four caliphs took over this sacred relic. According to official records, this ensign was transferred to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphs, and after the capture of Baghdad by the Mongols it was taken to Egypt by the Abbasid caliph. Uqab then passed into the hands of the Ottomans with the conquest of Egypt by Sultan Selim the Stern. On his return from Egypt the sultan carried the ensign to Istanbul, where it has been ever since.
After the Banner of the Prophet (saas) passed into the hands of the Ottomans, it was carried into battle by them as a custom. Shortly before the army descended onto the battlefield the Banner of the Prophet (saas) would be taken out and preparations would be made. The ensign was taken to the field of battle in its cover and defended by ensign-bearers. The presence with the army of the Banner of the Prophet (saas) was regarded as an enormous honor.

The Ottoman Empire, itself the ensign-bearer of Islamic moral values for centuries, attained a great honor with the arrival of the Banner of the Prophet (saas) to Istanbul.

The ensign Uqab, which once belonged to our Prophet (saas), is also, in addition to this feature, a sign and a herald of a most important matter. Our Prophet (saas) has reported that when the Banner of the Prophet (saas) is unfurled, this will be a sign of the end times, a period in which people will live by the moral values of the Qur'an. We are told in hadiths that: It is related from Abdullah ibn Shurafa that: The banner of our Prophet (saas) will be adorned, together with the Mahdi. (Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-zaman, p. 65) He will appear with the camel hair banner of our Prophet (saas). That banner has four corners, is unstitched and black in color. There is a halo on it. It has not been unfurled since the death of our Prophet (saas), but it will be opened when the Mahdi appears. (Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-zaman, p. 23) As for signs, he will have with him the shirt, the sword, and the banner of our Prophet (saas). That banner has never been unfurled since the death of our Prophet (saas). And, it will not be unfurled until the appearance of the Mahdi. (Portents of Doomsday, p. 164) The Mahdi will appear with the banner of our Prophet (saas). That banner is unstitched, black, and has four corners. It has never been unfurled since the death of our Prophet (saas) but will be unfurled by the Mahdi. (The Book of Portents of the Awaited Mahdi, pp. 41-41, 52, 54)

The banner, the color, shape, and stitching of which are described in the hadiths of our Prophet (saas), is today housed in the Sacred Relics Department at Topkapi Palace.

One important feature of this banner, which we are told will only be unfurled by the Mahdi in the end times, is that "it has never been unfurled since the death of our Prophet (saas)." According to historical sources, the banner has never been opened by any state, including the Ottoman Empire, out of respect for the Prophet (saas), and was never taken out of its cover even during the battles or during the ceremonies it was taken to. The banner, preserved in this way for 1400 years, will be unfurled in the end times, when Islamic moral values will prevail, with the coming of the Mahdi. (Allah knows the truth.)

A ceremony at which the Banner of the Prophet (saas) was suspended from this wall would be held at the Gate of Happiness.

Scimi

[جوري]

I've got book of the end, the problem is - some narrations are not as strong as others. Nothing is very clear cut in it.

Yes hence I wrote:

is based on personal accounts of those who lived them so I can't comment on the 'basis of it'

but we can't deny that the situation in the ME and other parts are near a boiling point and not going back in time.. In fact since the soviet war on Afghanistan things can't go back so we'll have to watch and wait- my understanding from my reading (not of this particular book) is that the white banner was used in times of peace and black in times of war. I don't think the issue is of the title or the flag rather of an impending situation that has been catalyzed by so many catastrophic events.

:w:

[Independent]

semantics

One of your favourite words. Is it semantics when Muslims try to redefine the meaning of jihad, islam or Sharia? You are actively trying to create a crusade in the old sense, because this will bring war closer.

Is a peaceful solution possible? a peaceful solution of a two state working in Palestine

For that matter, is a violent solution possible? A violent solution that leaves something actually worth having?

Either might work. Who can be sure from what we see now? But only the violent solution interests you. And not just in Palestine.You are actively seeking a war between Islam and the west. It excites you.

[جوري]

One of your favourite words. Is it semantics when Muslims try to redefine the meaning of jihad, islam or Sharia? You are actively trying to create a crusade in the old sense, because this will bring war closer.

sophistry too both are branches at which you excel- so what is your point?
I have no idea otherwise what you know of Jihad/Sharia or Islam to indulge your fantasies!

For that matter, is a violent solution possible? A violent solution that leaves something actually worth having?

A violent solution is inevitable and NOT because the Muslims want it that way rather a direct reaction to the aggression from the other side!

Either might work. Who can be sure from what we see now? But only the violent solution interests you. And not just in Palestine.You are actively seeking a war between Islam and the west. It excites you.

Thanks for that free analysis, it is as weighty as everything else you write-- next!

[Scimitar]

yes, time is linear. Hence, with every passing moment, we do find ourselves closer to the times and events prophesied.


But this also leads to some dangerous and risky judgements.

For example, my reason for asking the question "is the army of black banners to be recognised only after the mahdi AS has been given the Uqaab? or before that?"

Today, we have over 20 spearate groups all claiming to be "taliban"... only one of these can be the true "taliban"... and even if we know which group this is, there is no guarantee that it is the same group that is prophesied in hadeeth.

There has to be a factor of consideration here, in order to determine the probablility of an emerging force which is the army of black banners propchecied.

What is that determining factor? Big question.

Scimi

[Periwinkle18]

seeking a war between Islam and the west.

umm didnt tht start a long time ago?

havnt u heard of imam anwar

[جوري]

What is that determining factor? Big question.

Why can't they all be members of one family in different regions for one sole purpose to coalesce at some point?? Also who is to say that they're the prophesied army?..
my understanding otherwise is that all the events will unravel like a string of pearls in the order of the army, the mahdi the dajjal then Isa the son of Mary.. but Allah swt knows best.. we certainly have to change ourselves so we can be the people worthy of victory.. A woman doesn't conceive and give birth in one day and the situation here is no different. Victory can't come upon fornicators, ignoramuses and drunkards.. we have to be folks worthy of the change!

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Scimitar]

Why can't they all be members of one family in different regions for one sole purpose to coalesce at some point?? Also who is to say that they're the prophesied army?..

They can't, because more than half of these supposed Taliban armies are run by war lords who use innocent people to fight their wars for them. CIA sponsored cells which operate under the guise of "freedom fighters" - this has been covered in WUP and other places on the net lots of times.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, (and now) Yemen... total mess. No one knows which army is doing what?

The very fact that the hadeeth mentioning the black flags are weak - do not help us in any way also. Found this:

Question: Are the hadîth about an army coming from Khorasan with black flags and entering Jerusalem authentic?

Answered by Sheikh Salman al-Oadah

The hadîth about the army with black banners coming out of Khorasan has two chains of transmission, but both are weak and cannot be authenticated. If a Muslim believes in this hadîth, he believes in something false. Anyone who cares about his religion and belief should avoid heading towards falsehood.

The hadîth is related on the authority of Thawbân that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “If you see the black banners coming from the direction of Khurasân, then go to them, even if you have to crawl, because among them will be Allah’s Caliph the Mahdî.” [Related by al-Hâkim (8572) and Ahmad (22387)]

All the chains of transmission for this hadîth are weak and inauthentic, though some people have been overly lenient about it and declared it authentic by virtue of the many chains of transmission that it has.

Some people have used this hadîth to support their claim that the Mahdî is from the family of al-Abbâs and that the Mahdî is from of the Abbasid dynasty. There were Abbasid Caliphs who went by the name al-Mahdî.

The banners of the Abbasid State were black. It is not hard to see how this weak hadîth might have been fabricated or at least tampered with to support the Abbasid cause.


interesting, eh?

my understanding otherwise is that all the events will unravel like a string of pearls in the order of the army, the mahdi the dajjal then Isa the son of Mary.. but Allah swt knows best.. we certainly have to change ourselves so we can be the people worthy of victory.. A woman doesn't conceive and give birth in one day and the situation here is no different. Victory can't come upon fornicators, ignoramuses and drunkards.. we have to be folks worthy of the change!

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

Eschatology is hazy at the best of times... and "if's when's and maybe's - paint a picture hazy"

Let us keep our faith in Allah that HE will guide as as we are meant to be guided, Ameen.

[جوري]

They can't, because more than half of these supposed Taliban armies are run by war lords who use innocent people to fight their wars for them. CIA sponsored cells which operate under the guise of "freedom fighters" - this has been covered in WUP and other places on the net lots of times.

supposed is the operative word here.. everything we know of the taliban is hearsay and the book itself gives a different account.
and yes those ahadith are authentic-but like i said that army is meant to come on horses, and the last war will not be a modern style warfare which leads me personally to believe that there will be major destruction. either this or they're keeping primitive means to avoid 'big brother'
and yes I have read about the rafida type mahdi and the mahdis of days yore.. we know that he's an end of time real person nothing magical about him and even Isa PBUH will pray behind him.


Allah :swt: knows best,

:w:

[جوري]

[Scimitar]

like i said that army is meant to come on horses, and the last war will not be a modern style warfare which leads me personally to believe that there will be major destruction. either this or they're keeping primitive means to avoid 'big brother'

EMP will take care of that. And I do believe it to be a possibility that when the last ten major signs drop like the beads of pearls from a necklace, the frequency of the 10 signs (happening real fast) will also contribute a greater understanding of how that army will have to be on horses.

Let's say the sun disappears for 3 days, behind an otherworldly mass in space - the electromagnetic energy of which, nullifies all the electrics on earth? Much like the EMP tech we have today, and have had now for some time. The result will be astounding, the world will literally go dark - everywhere. All electrics: fried egg. No lights, streetlamps, torches, batteries not working etc etc etc... back to primitive type living, and for many in the west, this does not bode well.

Small wonder why we are taught in hadeeth to migrate to a mountain and take a few sheep and goats with us?

Allah knows best.

Scimi

[- Qatada -]

Small wonder why we are taught in hadeeth to migrate to a mountain and take a few sheep and goats with us?

Allah knows best.

Scimi

:salamext:

The hadith is that that will be the best life for the believer.

Looking at the big brother type of world we're living in now, and other things like that, it looks like that is the better life for the believer nowadays and will only be better in the times to come.

[AbuMuslimasf]

The Hadith
a) Marfu Hadith (Saying of Prophet peace be upon him)
Thawban (May Allah be pleased with him) narrated, "The Prophet(Sal Allah hu alayhe wasallam) said:
: ( يقتيل عند كنزكم ثلاثة كلهم ابن خليفة . ثم لا يصير إلى واحد منهم . ثم نطلع الرايات السود من قبل المشرق . فيقتلونكم قتلا لم يقتله قوم )
ثم ذكر شيئا لا أحفظه . فقال فإذا رأيتموه فبايعوه ولو حبوا على الثلج . فإنه خليفة الله المهدي
"Three men will be killed at the place where your treasure is. Each of them will be the son of a Khalifah, and none of them will get hold of the treasure. Then black banners will come out of the east...' If you see him, go and give him your allegiance, even if you have to crawl over ice, because he is the Khalifah of Allah, the Mahdi."[Ibn Majah no:4084]


b) Moquf Rout (saying of Companion)
Thawban said:
إذا رأيتم الرايات السود خرجت من قبل خراسان فأتوها ولو حبوا ، فإن فيها خليفة الله المهدي "
If you see the black flags coming from Khurasan then go there even if you have to crawl because there is the Khalifah of Allah, the Mahdi."[Mustadrak al Hakim hadeeth no: 8578, Behaqi in Dalail an-Nabuwwah 6/516].

Authentications
a) Imam al-Bazzar said after narrating،
وإسناده إسناد صحيح .
Chain is authentic.

b) Imam Hakim said after narrating:"
هذا حديث صحيح على شرط الشيخين
.This hadeeth is authentic on the criteria of Shaykhayn (Bukhari and Muslim)(end quote)
.
c) Ibn Katheer said
" وهذا إسناد قوي صحيح .This chain is powerful authentic
.
d) Qurtubee authenticated [Tadhkirah 1201]
.
e) Buseri authenticated [Misbah az-Zajjaj 3/263]
.
f) Sindee said
كذا إسناده صحيح رجاله ثقات ورواه الحاكم في المستدرك وقال : صحيح على شرط الشيخين .
Chain is authentic Narrators are trustworthy, narrated by al Hakim in Mustadrak and said Authentic on the criteria of Shaykhayn(Bukhari and Muslim)[Zawaid e Ibne Majah under this hadeeth]
.
g) Hamood at taweejari authenticated [Ittehaaf al Jamah bimaja fi al Fitan wal Malahum wa Sharaait as-Sa`ah 2/187]
.
h) Shaykh Zubair Ali Zai said the marfu rout is weak because of Sufiyan thawri who is mudallis and narrating from (an), but he said regarding the moquf rout
.
The chain of this rout is Hasan Lidhatihi and this is Marfu in hukam.[Al Hadith no: 80 page no: 6]

He also said "Authenticated by Buseri, and al-Hakim authenticated on the criteria of Shaykhayn (Bukhari and Muslim) 4/463,364 and 502. Ad-Dahabee agreed with him, Authenticated by Ibn Katheer[Notes of Ibn Majah hadeeth no: 4084]

These hadith are more authentic than everything else in this issue. There is only one person missing in the chain of transmission and generally you will not find a better chain of transmission. Those people who expect the Mahdi from Medina in KSA find the solution to declare them as weak which is nonesense. Those who declare them as fabricated are rejecting the prophet Mohammad saas.

And Ibn Abi Shaybah, Nu'aym ibn Hammad in al-Fitan, Ibn Majah and Abu Nu'aym narrated from Ibn Mas'ud [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said:

"Once we were with the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], when a group of youths fromBanu Hashim approached. When the Prophet [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] saw them, his eyes filled with tears and his colour changed.

He [i.e. Ibn Mas'ud] said: "I said: "We see in your face something that worries us." So he said:

"We, the Ahl al-Bayt, are a people for whom Allah has chosen the hereafter over this world. And my household after me will face trials, banishment and pursuit, until a people from the east come with black banners, and they will ask for what is due, but not be given it. So they will fight and be victorious, and be given what they asked for. But they will not accept it from them until they hand it over to a man from my household, who will fill it [i.e. the earth] with equity, as they had filled it with tyranny. So whoever among you reaches that time, then let him go to them, even if he must crawl over ice, for he is the Mahdi."


This hadith came already true with the turks til to the Mahdi part. The turks were living in the east (khorasan)
and settled in anatolia and with the conquest of egypt they have took the trust (Uqab) and will hand over it tho the mahdi.



As for the book the talibans are not this promised army. Hadith about the balck banners do not state they will fight the americans about 11 years. They will be youth and fight only the sufyani in khorasan.

[جوري]

:jz: for that!

:w:

[Samiun]

:sl: I used to love this theories, but I got less interested when I was getting a bit paranoid. Still I'm hoping I won't be facing Dajjal in these times and even if I did I want to escape from him Inshallah. Also, I really hope that what Sh. Imran Hosein said about the events that occur in 21st of December will not happen(not the end of Humans, just some whistle blowing events).

[ba51th]

I can't wait to face dajjal. I really want to spit on his face, and he will chop my head, and my struggle from the oppressor will be finish...

[جوري]

It isn't a good thing to wish to meet with the enemy let alone Dajjal.. all we can ask is for Allah swt to make us steadfast and save us the tribulations.. incidentally today is a good day to recite suret Al kahf to be saved the tribulations of Dajjal

:w:

[Scimitar]

I remember my grandfathers look of amazement last week when I was in India, and after Jummah I asked him what surah he wanted to hear and he said al Kahf, then I asked him "recited by who?" and he said Sudais, so I immiediatly put it on for him on my laptop and he was like "You have this all recorded?" :D I didn't have the patience to begin to explain the internet to him, so I just said "yes, something like this". :D

Scimi

[islamica]

I read the book and there's a few things I would have to disagree with. I thought I share my thoughts on it inshallah since others may read this book and it would help in understanding with a broader spectivie.

The book talks about AQ a lot, giving them a lot of credit for just about everything. The book talks about how OBL was planning and was behind 9/11 and the zionists in US were aware of it and allowed it to happen as it would benefit them as well. When this did happen, OBl made a statement stating He was not the one behind it. That was his first and only statement on it. Why would he say that when he is not afraid to take responsibility for what he does. After that we saw many fake OBL video released by the US taking responsibility for it. I think the author is giving AQ and OBL credit where it's not due. There is ample evidence out there about US officials meetings with Taleban prior about running pipelines through Afghan from north and the clear threat made to have the pipelines in place by a certain date. Post 9/11 that was the first thing that was set in motion. If one has kept abreast of everything that had been going on prior to 9/11 up to today then only they would understand the bigger picture and the all players and their roles.


The next topic was of Pakistan TTP. The book asserts that they are part of AQ. While there may be a few that are in agreement with them, it is not true for others. There are so many groups claiming to be Pak Taleban and each one has their own agenda. There are local thugs and gangs being paied by outside forces to cause chaos impersonating at PT, there are inside poor and illiterate being manipulated and trained to do evil in the name of islam and being trained by CIA like Raymond Davis who got caught by Pak intelligence. And there are mercenaries like black water undercover engaged in terrorists activities (as illustrated in another thread) while pretending to be the Taleban.

The book also gives credit to AQ in the India bombay bombing, stating Pakistan - Lashkar e Tayba (LeT) - has been responsible for the Mumbai attacks in India, 2008. Which is not true either. India's own journalists covered evidence of false flag op by hindu extremists, the video of the shooter show clearly him wearing a orange wrist band, same one hindu extremists wear.

Lastly, Somali pirates are given credit as a hand of AQ who are hijacking ships for ransom for millions to further their cause. The fact of the matter is that western ships were illegally dumping radioactive materials and waste into somali waters. The fishing lively hood of the somalis was ruined as well as clean water for living. Also, they started to have defects in the kids. The somali pirates are engage in their activities to stop the western corporations from making their backyard a radioactive waste dumping ground.

A naive person may believe everything in this book, which makes AQ out to be a global giant with far reaching powers and hands. As much as it seems like a pro AQ one, it can also be seen as written by the west in which case it can easily justify why the west wants to invade every country. Different versions of AQ in every country, sleeper cells in the west and the east, new tech savy younger recruits, it all goes well with western interests as well. And yet the books claims AQ to be the army that will emerge and join mahdi. I don't believe any of that. I don't think it's them at all. It has some interesting stuff in it to read but I wouldn't take everything at face value.