Does Tashahud neglect the other messengers of Allah?

[MissK]

The Quran tells us that we must not make any distinction between the messenger's of Allah. So why is it that when reciting the tashahud during salat, we only pray for peace and blessings upon the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and his family? Is this not making a distinction, placing him above and of more importance than the other messengers? What about Jesus, Abraham, Moses, noah (pbut)?

Also, I question why we say the tashahud at all. Why must we point our finger and move it ? Yes, I am aware that it is part of the sunna/hadith; however, if we notice, every other part of the salat that we currently perform is outlined in the Quran. We are not given the specific order, but the core of salat is there. The sunna (if it is truely accurate) should support and further clarify what we have been given in the Quran, so why does it seem to add on to what the Quran has told us in this instance. :hmm:

[جوري]

You must not know much about tashhud to make the above comment!

[Insaanah]

The sunna (if it is truely accurate) should support and further clarify what we have been given in the Quran, so why does it seem to add on to what the Quran has told us in this instance.

You need to understand what the sunnah is, who legislated it, how it is preserved, it's importance before we go any further. The sunnah does not only support and clarify what is in the Qur'an but is also an independent source of law in itself, that goes hand in hand with the Qur'an, as rasoolullah :saws: told us.

See the first, second and third links here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1542902

every other part of the salat that we currently perform is outlined in the Quran

Salaat is not valid without Surah al-Fatiha. Where in the Qur'an does it tell you that you must read it in your salaat, or in every rakat?

[جوري]

An important issue s/he missed is that we do give peace and blessings to Abraham :saw1: and his thereof which includes all the prophets as he's considered the father of monotheism - leading me to draw one sole conclusion about the questioner!
I've also covered the signiicane of tasshud from the night journey on another thread -

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[Insaanah]

An important issue s/he missed is that we do give peace and blessings to Abraham :saw1: and his thereof which includes all the prophets as he's considered the father of monotheism

Absolutely true. I missed that. :jz: for pointing that out.

[MissK]

FYI: I never claimed to be a Tashahud Scholar. Hence my asking a question in order to seek understanding.

[MissK]

An important issue s/he missed is that we do give peace and blessings to Abraham :saw1: and his thereof which includes all the prophets as he's considered the father of monotheism - leading me to draw one sole conclusion about the questioner!
I've also covered the signiicane of tasshud from the night journey on another thread -

Below is the version of the Tashahud and invocations that I was taught.

From my reading, It asks that Allah bless the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), his family, and followers, just AS he blessed Ibrahim (pbuh) and his family and followers. It does NOT ask for those blessings upon Ibrahim. It simply makes a comparison. In addition, if Ibrahim is the father of monotheism which includes all of the prophets (as you have mentioned above), then isn't the prophet Mohammed already blessed just as all of the other prophets are? Therefore based on your argument, he needs no mention by name just as you imply the other prophets need no mention by name.

Am I reading this incorrectly? Are all of the English translations I have read incorrect?

All compliments, all physical prayer,
and all worship are for Allah.
Peace be upon you, Oh Prophet,
and Allah's mercy and blessings.
Peace be on us and on all righteous slaves of Allah.
I bear witness that no one is worthy of worship except Allah
And I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.
Oh Allah, send grace and honour (favor) on Muhammad and
On the family and true followers of Muhammad
just as you sent Grace and Honour on Ibrahim
and on the family and true followers of Ibrahim
Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great.

Oh Allah, send your blessing on Muhammad and
the true followers of Muhammad, just
as you sent blessings on Ibrahim
and his true followers
Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great.

[MissK]

You need to understand what the sunnah is, who legislated it, how it is preserved, it's importance before we go any further. The sunnah does not only support and clarify what is in the Qur'an but is also an independent source of law in itself, that goes hand in hand with the Qur'an, as rasoolullah :saws: told us.


Salaat is not valid without Surah al-Fatiha. Where in the Qur'an does it tell you that you must read it in your salaat, or in every rakat?

Thanks for the link. I will check it out. I won't comment much further on the Sunna itself as I feel our beliefs concerning it, and particularly its preservation may be so far apart at this point that the conversation would be worthy of another thread.

As for surah Al Fatihah, I disagree. The Quran simply tells us that we should recite Quran. As you mentioned, it doesn't specifically tell us to recite Al Fatihah. To my knowledge, nowhere does it mention that our salat is "invalid" if we do not and I think that as Muslims we are too hasty in telling people what Allah will and will not accept from them. No one hear can speak for Allah.

[Ali_008]

Thanks for the link. I will check it out. I won't comment much further on the Sunna itself as I feel our beliefs concerning it, and particularly its preservation may be so far apart at this point that the conversation would be worthy of another thread.

As for surah Al Fatihah, I disagree. The Quran simply tells us that we should recite Quran. As you mentioned, it doesn't specifically tell us to recite Al Fatihah. To my knowledge, nowhere does it mention that our salat is "invalid" if we do not and I think that as Muslims we are too hasty in telling people what Allah will and will not accept from them. No one hear can speak for Allah.

:wasalamex

It is not mentioned in the Qur'an, but it is mentioned in Ahadeeth. You have to give due credit to Ahadeeth of Rasooullah :saws: as well before questioning what the Qur'an orders and what it doesn't. The Qur'an tells us what to do, and the Ahadeeth fills in the part of how to do it. It's as simple as that.

The tashahhud isn't only comprising of Durood as there is the At-tahiyaat part as well.

Al-Tahiyyaatu Lillaahi wa’l-salawaatu wa’l-tayyibaat. Al-salaamu ‘alayka ayyuha’l-Nabiyyu wa rahmat-Allaahi wa barakaatuhu. Al-salaamu ‘alaynaa wa ‘ala ‘ibaad-illaah il-saaliheen. Ash-hadu an laa ilaaha ill-Allaah wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan ‘abduhu wa rasooluh
All compliments, prayers and pure words are due to Allaah. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of Allaah and His blessings. Peace be upon us and upon the righteous slaves of Allaah. I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.
Source

As you can see, "peace be upon the righteous slaves of Allah" includes a mass number consisting of not just the contemporary noble men, but also shuhada (martyrs), ulaama (scholars), and anbiya (prophets).

Plus, we are the ummat of the Hazrat Muhammad :saws:, and hence it is our duty to offer durood. Similarly, the ummat of every respective prophet prayed for their prophet.

[جوري]

FYI: I never claimed to be a Tashahud Scholar

Indeed but you asserted:

Is this not making a distinction, placing him above and of more importance than the other messengers? What about Jesus, Abraham, Moses, noah (pbut)?

and then after being replied to you completely ignored this part of the reply:

that we do give peace and blessings to Abraham :saw1: and his thereof which includes all the prophets as he's considered the father of monotheism

[Signor]

Assalamu Alaikum Sister MissK

Before going against Hadiths further,take your time to read the following threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...futations.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/134278656-introduction-sciences-hadith-shaykh-suhayb-hasan-
hafidhahullaah.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...eth-myths.html

[MissK]

:wasalamex

As you can see, "peace be upon the righteous slaves of Allah" includes a mass number consisting of not just the contemporary noble men, but also shuhada (martyrs), ulaama (scholars), and anbiya (prophets).

Plus, we are the ummat of the Hazrat Muhammad :saws:, and hence it is our duty to offer durood. Similarly, the ummat of every respective prophet prayed for their prophet.

Again, you raise my point. We, including the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and all of the other prophets are slaves of Allah. This is why I ask why we make the distinction of naming him and not making that same distinction for others.

I still don't see how naming him repeatedly in our prayers is not making a distinction between the prophets but I do sincerely appreciate you trying to explain it to me without being judgmental. Shukran! :-)

[MissK]

Indeed but you asserted:


and then after being replied to you completely ignored this part of the reply:

1. I didn't assert. I merely asked a question.

2. I did respond to that part of your comment. Maybe it hadn't been approved when you replied but for the sake of clarity and accuracy, I will repeat it here: "From my reading, It asks that Allah bless the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), his family, and followers, just AS he blessed Ibrahim (pbuh) and his family and followers. It does NOT ask for those blessings upon Ibrahim. It simply makes a comparison. In addition, if Ibrahim is the father of monotheism which includes all of the prophets (as you have mentioned above), then isn't the prophet Mohammed already blessed just as all of the other prophets are? Therefore based on your argument, he needs no mention by name just as you imply the other prophets need no mention by name."

Nevertheless, khalas. It appears that you are bothered by my search for answers to questions, so I will limit my further responses to those who seek to help rather than judge. Shukran.

~May Allah guide us both to truth and keep us on the straight path.~

[Insaanah]

As for surah Al Fatihah, I disagree. The Quran simply tells us that we should recite Quran. As you mentioned, it doesn't specifically tell us to recite Al Fatihah. To my knowledge, nowhere does it mention that our salat is "invalid" if we do not and I think that as Muslims we are too hasty in telling people what Allah will and will not accept from them. No one hear can speak for Allah.

When we say our shahaadah to become a Muslim, we say we bear witness that Muhammad :saws: is the servant of Allah and His messenger. Meaning he :saws: conveyed God's message to us. The Qur'an is Allah's word, and Muhammad :saws: was sent for us by Allah, to show people how to put into practice the law and guidance that has been sent by Allah, and also, to give commands, issue regulations, and be a source of law, as taught to him by Allah. His actions, commands, explanations, statements, approvals etc are recorded in the hadeeth. When a person takes or believes in the shahaadah, by default you have to accept what comes with that. If one says they accept the messenger as the messenger Allah sent for us, but then is not going to follow what he said and commanded, then the question arises, how much of an acceptance is that? It may be that a person does not yet know the importance or status of the sunnah and hadeeth to our religion. If one is in doubt about the sunnah and hadeeth, then one must learn and ask questions as to their doubts, and read around the subject, and I think some links have already been given.

You said no one can speak for Allah. The messengers (including Muhammad :saws: ) were inspired by Allah. Allah tells us in the Qur'an that we must obey the messenger, in one place He mentions obedience to the Prophet :saws: alone without mentioning obedience to Himself, because if you obey the Prophet :saws:, then by default you have obeyed the One who taught the Prophet.

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. (4:81)

And establish prayer and give zakah and obey the Messenger - that you may receive mercy. (24:56)

To my knowledge, nowhere does it mention that our salat is "invalid" if we do not

This is what the Prophet :saws: said:

Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit: Allah's Apostle :saws: said, "Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha in his prayer, his prayer is invalid." ...

Sahih al-Bukhari 756

As for sending blessings upon other prophets (peace be upon them) you have to keep in mind one thing. Jews believe in Moses (peace be upon him), but reject Jesus (peace be upon him). Christians believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) (albeit in the wrong way) but reject Muhammad :saws:. One of the defining factors of a Muslim that differentiates him/her from the others, is the belief in and wholehearted acceptance of Muhammad :saws:. When we send blessings on him, we are affirming our faith. By default, as Muslims we have to believe in and accept all the Prophets, rejection of any of them taking us outside the fold of Islam.

[MissK]

Jews believe in Moses (peace be upon him), but reject Jesus (peace be upon him). Christians believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) (albeit in the wrong way) but reject Muhammad . One of the defining factors of a Muslim that differentiates him/her from the others, is the belief in and wholehearted acceptance of Muhammad . When we send blessings on him, we are affirming our faith.

While I still think it's making a distinction (I'll have to think on it a little more)...I must admit....Sabhanallah! This answer kind of makes sense. :-) Thanks!

[جوري]

Isra wal Miraj was the time when the prayer was established and in it is a secret to the hadith, “As-salatul mirajul mumin” (Prayer is the miraj (ascension) of the believer). We have in our prayer a remnant of that miraculous journey—the conversation between rasulAllah (saws) and Allah. We say it every day at least 5 times a day, when we are making our tashahud:

The Tashahud

The Prophet said, “All salutations/reverence/compliments are for Allah, and all acts of worship and good deeds are for Him.”
Allah replied, “Peace be upon you oh Prophet, and Allah’s mercy and blessings!”
The Prophet then said, “Peace be upon us and upon the righteous servants of Allah!”
The company of heaven said, “I bear witness that there is nothing worthy of being worshiped except Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger.”

The Messenger (saws) said: “Verily, between man and polytheism and disbelief is abandoning prayer.” (Sahih Muslim)

[Ali_008]

Again, you raise my point. We, including the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and all of the other prophets are slaves of Allah. This is why I ask why we make the distinction of naming him and not making that same distinction for others.

I still don't see how naming him repeatedly in our prayers is not making a distinction between the prophets but I do sincerely appreciate you trying to explain it to me without being judgmental. Shukran! :-)

You have to make distinction to him, because he is YOUR prophet. We have to respect other prophets as well, but they can't be viewed in the same light as Muhammad :saws:. Neither will the ummah of any other prophet treat Rasoolullah :saws: the same way the way they treat their own prophet. I'll give you a worldly example to make it clearer. When you're in school, you have a class teacher. Although you have other teachers as well who teach you different subjects, but the class teacher is the one who has been granted your responsibility and has been tagged with you. If Mr. Abdullah is your class-teacher, and Mr. Abdul Raheem is your math teacher, you will always be known as the kid from Mr. Abdullah's class, not Mr. Abdul Raheem's. Hope this helps.

Apart from all the logical and religious reasoning, I say that you have to make a distinction with Prophet Muhammad :saws: because he was the culmination of the teachings of all the prophets. The rules and obligations were not the same during the times of every prophet. Each era had their own set of rules. Rasoolullah :saws: was the prophet with the perfect deen as the Allah states in the Qur'an:

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
Surah # 3 - Surah Ale Imran - Verse 5

In addition to that, Prophet Muhammad :saws: is also known as Imaam al-Mursaleen which translates to "Leader of the Messengers." He was awarded this honor when he was the one who led the prayer of the prophets on the night of Miraaj in Masjid Al-Aqsa.

Even if you don't consider the reasoning I gave above, you have to give special respect to Prophet Muhammad :saws: because he is your prophet. Just to make things clear, he is being offered durood upon only by his ummah. The communities before him prayed for their own prophets. Also, we all are, indeed, slaves of Allah including the prophets, but you have to remember the hadeeth in which Rasoolullah :saws: mentioned about ranks. I don't have the reference to it right now, but according to the Hadeeth, Rasoolullah :saws: said the noblest of his worshipers are tried the hardest by Allah. He followed the Hadeeth by saying that the prophets top the list, followed by martyrs, followed by scholars, so on and so forth. We all are slaves of Allah, but the prophets rank way higher than all of us.

[Hulk]

Who will intercede for you on the day of Judgement? Is it not our beloved Prophet (pbuh)? I think it's kind of a silly question to even ask, but I think you're sincere in wanting to know so it's fine In Shaa Allah.

[Insaanah]

While I still think it's making a distinction (I'll have to think on it a little more)...I must admit....Sabhanallah! This answer kind of makes sense. :-) Thanks!

Remember that not making a distinction, doesn't mean that they are equal. That being the case, every prophet would have had to have had a virgin birth, had the same miracles etc. Even Allah says:

Those are the Messengers; We have graced some of them over some others; of them (there are some) to whom Allah spoke, and some He raised in degrees... (2:253, part)

What differentiating between them, making a distinction between them means, is believing some and rejecting others, honouring some but blaspheming others, saying some of them came with different messages (not the message Allah sent them with), elevating the status of some to divine or to as God's sons, etc.

As Muslims, we do not do this. We believe in and honour them all as a core and non-negotiable part of our faith. We believe they all came with the same message, which was for people to worship the One True God without any associates whatsoever in His Divinity, to submit to Him wholeheartedly, and to obey the Prophets He sent. Thus we do not create differences or make distinctions between them. We as Muslims follow that same message now.

Also the previous prophets were sent for specific limited time periods until the arrival of the next prophet. Muhammad :saws: is the last and final Prophet, for now and all time to come, as there will be no new messenger after him, so he is the Prophet for here and now, for the time period that we are in.

If we send blessings on Prophet Muhammad :saws: in our prayer, this doesn't then mean that we must mention the other prophets in order for there to be no distinction. Muhammad :saws: is a culmination of the same message they all came with, belief in him by default meaning you believe in and honour the others; indeed he :saws: said: "..The Prophets are brothers.." (part of a longer hadeeth in Sunan Abi Dawud 4675) and Allah said he is the seal of the Prophets:

Muhammad :saws: is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things. (33:40)

We say "peace be upon us and all the righteous servants of Allah", and in those short words we include everyone, even the former prophets. Salaat isn't meant to be long and drawn out (other than the recitation of one's choice if desired), with mention of every single prophet, or every group of righteous people mentioned separately.

[shailas]

Remember that not making a distinction, doesn't mean that they are equal. That being the case, every prophet would have had to have had a virgin birth, had the same miracles etc. Even Allah says:

Those are the Messengers; We have graced some of them over some others; of them (there are some) to whom Allah spoke, and some He raised in degrees... (2:253, part)

What differentiating between them, making a distinction between them means, is believing some and rejecting others, honouring some but blaspheming others, saying some of them came with different messages (not the message Allah sent them with), elevating the status of some to divine or to as God's sons, etc.

As Muslims, we do not do this. We believe in and honour them all as a core and non-negotiable part of our faith. We believe they all came with the same message, which was for people to worship the One True God without any associates whatsoever in His Divinity, to submit to Him wholeheartedly, and to obey the Prophets He sent. Thus we do not create differences or make distinctions between them. We as Muslims follow that same message now.

Also the previous prophets were sent for specific limited time periods until the arrival of the next prophet. Muhammad :saws: is the last and final Prophet, for now and all time to come, as there will be no new messenger after him, so he is the Prophet for here and now, for the time period that we are in.

If we send blessings on Prophet Muhammad :saws: in our prayer, this doesn't then mean that we must mention the other prophets in order for there to be no distinction. Muhammad :saws: is a culmination of the same message they all came with, belief in him by default meaning you believe in and honour the others; indeed he :saws: said: "..The Prophets are brothers.." (part of a longer hadeeth in Sunan Abi Dawud 4675) and Allah said he is the seal of the Prophets:

Muhammad :saws: is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things. (33:40)

We say "peace be upon us and all the righteous servants of Allah", and in those short words we include everyone, even the former prophets. Salaat isn't meant to be long and drawn out (other than the recitation of one's choice if desired), with mention of every single prophet, or every group of righteous people mentioned separately.

This is a beautiful response. It is much clearer now to me as well.

Thanks, MissK for asking this question. I, too, was thinking about the same question last week. We're on a learning journey, and I really thank the people who can convey the message with such patience, grace and kindness.

[Jubbahman]

All of you are neglecting the Tafseer of the Verse! The meaning is basically that we will not diffrentiate between any messenger unless outlined as such by the Hadith and Sunnah.