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~Zaria~
12-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Assalamu-alaikum,

A beggar approaches your car as you stop at an intersection (and, almost every other intersection thereafter....)

He/ She could be:

- A young, healthy individual that cannot find employment
- A single mum with a child, standing in the sweltering sun
- A homeloss orphan
- A person with a physical disabilty......

You see them almost everyday.
Some may call them the 'professional beggars', as this is what they do for a living.
Many have been standing at the same intersection for years.

What do you do?

Do you look away, and drive on by?

Or do you stop to give them some change?......but, only to find them there the next day - their situation still the same......

What do you do?
Reply

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جوري
12-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I would go with the feeling in my gut- you get sadaqah reward either way and if they truly need it great and if they're fooling you then you still get a reward while they bear the sin!

And Allah :swt: knows best
Reply

shailas
12-10-2012, 11:46 PM
I've never seen the same person day after day after giving. So, I can't answer your exact question through experience; however, I would imagine I'd be less inclined to give and give to the same homeless person.

This reminds me of what happened last week around sunset. I was leaving walmart and saw this family, a mom, dad, and 5 beautiful children ranging from probably about 4 to 12 years old. They were sitting on the street corner huddled together, except the father who was holding a sign that said something like he lost his job, please help feed them. It is out of the norm to see anyone holding a sign like this around here. It was a striking scene in that moment.

Just that morning I had read an article about a local organization that helps people in need. I called and left a message about this family, then I turned my car around, parked in the lot where they were and talked to them. A bunch of people were stopping, it was heart moving, actually. I gave them some money and the number of that organization that could help them, told them where the public library is that they could use the internet for free and contact that organization.

I have not seen them since that night. I have prayed about them several times since then. I wonder what they are doing now, where they are...I hope they're ok...
Reply

islamica
12-11-2012, 01:30 AM
There are people who are really in need and then there are people who are professional beggars. They were was an insider done on these where they gave the money to a beggar and then follower him secretly the whole day. After he was done begging, he started walking away. He went to this really nice residential area, went to this really nice home, went in the garage there and came out driving a lexuas i think. And then I also see beggars who are begging at the intersection and then i see them sitting under the a bridge eating and laying around. So some are in need while others make a business out of it. That is in the west. In the east it's a whole new story.
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MissK
12-11-2012, 08:22 PM
I think that is a hard choice. My dad owns a construction company and I have seen him offer some of these men the opportunity to come out, work for the day, and receive a day's wage, and they run it down, asking for a few dollars instead. Seeing things like that make it hard to give your hard earned money.

You definitely have to go with your gut and do what feels right. That might mean giving them money or buying them food or a sweater, etc. If they aren't sincere in their need, then Allah(swt) is aware just as he is aware of your good intention.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Walikaumsalaam,

I give them change. :/ I don't give them change if I think they are lying. o_o

Must be careful not to become a case of charity myself. :statisfie

Must save all those pennies! :raging: My property! *growls*
Reply

Logikon
12-12-2012, 02:10 AM
They have no friends nor relatives for a specific reason (unknown to any of us). If you offer cash they might spend it on alcohol.
I offer to buy them a sandwich. If they refuse I walk away.
Sometimes “they lost their bus ticket”. I offer to buy a one way ticket and if they refuse I walk away.

One homeless person shines shoes. I am happy to pay to have my shoes shined. I pay a bit more than expected. It means he is trying to help himself.
Reply

Muslim Woman
12-12-2012, 10:20 AM
:sl:


so many poor people are around me . so , I prefer to give Zakat money and sadaka to known people ( present housemaid , their relatives , ex housemaids & her family members ) money instead of give money to profeesional beggars.
Reply

sister herb
12-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Salam alaykum

I try to give if I can and think they are in real need, but here too are those whose ask money for drinking or whose are "professional". Some years ago I was walking in the city and saw man, who was talking with many women, telling them he is totally broke but wish to buy flowers to his mother... and by this reason many gave him something. Later he asked from me too and as we suddenly standed beside of one flower shop, I offered to go to the shop with him and buy flowers... but he ran away.

:embarrass

Mostly I try to help those I know like via my friends in some muslim countries.
Reply

~Zaria~
12-12-2012, 12:46 PM
Assalamu-alaikum,

JazakAllah khair for the responses.

I have posted this issue as it has been plaguing my mind for some time now.....and Im really not sure how I should be feeling about it....

I think the situation in my country (perhaps the rest of the African continent as well) is unlike any other that I have experienced (from my limited travels).

The types of beggars that I have mentioned in the OP can be found at almost every traffic light.

It has become so rampant that there are many who advise that we should not support them -
e.g: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/travelbl...?destId=355611

And so, I am completely torn.....

On the one hand - we are reminded numerously in the Quraan to feed the less fortunate:

Have you considered him who calls the judgment a lie? That is the one who treats the orphan with harshness, And does not urge (others) to feed the poor. [Al-Quran 107:1-3]

"They give food, out of love for Him (Allah), to the poor, the orphan, and the slave, saying: We feed you only for Allah's pleasure - we desire from you neither reward nor thanks." [Quran 76:8-9]

On the other hand, begging is strongly disliked in Islam.

As well as the other social problems that arise from 'supporting' beggars by means of hand-outs:

1. Many become completely dependant on hand-outs, and find no need to even look for employment.
I too have heard of stories where beggars have turned down jobs as they are making an 'easy' living off the streets......why work for the same amount of money when you can get it for free?

2.Children who beg on the streets, are deprived of going to school and getting an education --> and by remaining illiterate, there is little hope of their conditions ever improving.

3. In my country, street beggars are sometimes a source of crime -
e.g. 'smash and grab' incidents at intersections (the front window of the car is smashed with a sharp object and the hand-bag/ any item is grabbed off the seat) are very common here. I was almost involved in one......but alhamdulillah, disaster was averted when I started hooting and trying to draw attention : (

4. Women who stand begging, in the scorching heat with young children on their backs have been critisized as a form of 'child abuse'.
As well as 'Baby begging scams' that surfaced a short while ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-10999224


Having said this, at the end of the day, there is a PERSON who is suffering the pangs of poverty - and so, it is very difficult to paint all with the same brush.

Surely there must be better ways of assisting people in need.....
Feeding them for a day does not solve anything.

'Give a man to fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.'

Not so easy to implement though.... : (

:wa:
Reply

~Zaria~
04-01-2013, 07:07 PM
:salamext:

Ive just come across this hadith, and now I am filled with guilt and regret imsad:

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once told his wife:

“Do not turn away a poor man, even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you, Allah will bring you near Him on the Day of Resurrection.”

— Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376



A few months ago, I listened to an Islamic radio show, where the presenter advised the public not to give to beggars that are found at our street intersections - as we are 'fuelling the problem' of developing a society of begging.

A few weeks ago, on another talk-show, a charity organisation also strongly discouraged the public from giving hand-outs to kids.
The reason being, that once these children become dependant on this way of life, they do not seek alternative ways of assistance (e.g. care facilities), and are in the long run deprived of an education and subjected to other crimes and abuse on the streets.

Based on this, I had decided not to give to beggars who appear young, fit/ able-bodied or to street-kids......and I selectively chose those who are disabled, etc.


But now, I am torn imsad

There is literally a beggar standing at each and every traffic intersection nowadays (we do not have subways, so our primary means of transport is cars and buses).
If I give them small change each day (and if everyone else did as well), they most certainly will remain on the streets for their livelihood.

But then again, what would our prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) have done in the same situation?

Any advise would be appreciated.....

imsad:cry:
Reply

Eric H
04-01-2013, 09:05 PM
Greetings and peace be with you ~Zaria~;

About a billion people live on less than a dollar a day, about half the world population lives on less than $2.50 per day. If you earn more than 70 US dollars a week, then you earn more than five billion people in the world.

Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names.

Poverty is a sin against God, he has given us enough resources in the world to feed everyone, but some of us have a lot more than others. The Bible has about two thousand passages that refer to justice for the poor and oppressed.

Some horrible statistics can be found at..

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...acts-and-stats

in the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
Reply

tearose
04-01-2013, 09:34 PM
:wasalamex,

It's nice that you care so much ukhti. I don't know how much you can do on your own...I think sometimes it needs a co-ordinated group effort.

The only solution I can think of is to get together a group of volunteers to look into what these people's needs are, go out and talk to them and find out what problems pushed them into begging. Are they mainly in need of food, clothing, shelter or medicine? Then, based on the results, the volunteer group can ask well-off people to help them with funding, and set up a service that is relevant to the needs of the people. For example, if it is mostly for food, you could use any large masjid that has a kitchen and put together meals that don't cost much to make and that you can give away at a certain time, and then send someone to let the people know about it until word gets around. I have seen this happen at the main masjid of a city I used to live in after every jum'ah prayer. I know the problem is so huge, and you would probably have to turn most of the people away at first, but with time you could recruit more volunteers, get more publicity and more donations in sha Allah.

Or if there were a lot of people needing clothing, or items for children, you could set up one team to collect secondhand items from wealthy neighbourhoods and another to distribute them among those who need them. Just an idea.

EDIT: Just re-reading the thread and seeing other problems: If you could set up such a service in the short term, you could also try and link it to local services to do with employment and education, literacy classes etc. to try and avoid people becoming dependent in sha Allah.
Reply

tearose
04-01-2013, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon
I offer to buy them a sandwich. If they refuse I walk away.
I have heard a lot of people saying this, but it's not necessarily food they need. Some people need medicine, or they want to become independent and look for their own housing, etc. Even if they do need food, it might be so they can make a meal for their children. If they ask for something and then refuse it I understand, but I have heard of some people that will just buy something before they even talk to the person and if they don't accept they will think of them as a liar and a cheat. I don't think that's the attitude we're supposed to have.
Reply

islamica
04-02-2013, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
:salamext:

Ive just come across this hadith, and now I am filled with guilt and regret imsad:

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once told his wife:

“Do not turn away a poor man, even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you, Allah will bring you near Him on the Day of Resurrection.”

— Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376




But then again, what would our prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) have done in the same situation?

Any advise would be appreciated.....

imsad:cry:
wa'alaikum as'salaam wr wb


while the above hadith is true and we should help out those in need, if you think they are not legit then give less. But the hand that gives is better than the one that asks. It's better to help them get out of that situation then to let them go on like that.

What would the prophet (s) had done? here's one example.


Narrated Anas ibn Malik: A man of the Ansar came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and begged from him. He (the Prophet) asked: Have you nothing in your house? He replied: Yes, a piece of cloth, a part of which we wear and a part of which we spread (on the ground), and a wooden bowl from which we drink water. He said: Bring them to me. He then brought these articles to him and he (the Prophet) took them in his hands and asked: Who will buy these? A man said: I shall buy them for one dirham. He said twice or thrice: Who will offer more than one dirham? A man said: I shall buy them for two dirhams. He gave these to him and took the two dirhams and, giving them to the Ansari, he said: Buy food with one of them and hand it to your family, and buy an axe and bring it to me. He then brought it to him. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) fixed a handle on it with his own hands and said: Go, gather firewood and sell it, and do not let me see you for a fortnight. The man went away and gathered firewood and sold it. When he had earned ten dirhams, he came to him and bought a garment with some of them and food with the others. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then said: This is better for you than that begging should come as a spot on your face on the Day of Judgment. Begging is right only for three people: one who is in grinding poverty, one who is seriously in debt, or one who is responsible for compensation and finds it difficult to pay. (Book #9, Hadith #1637)
Reply

~Zaria~
04-02-2013, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
:wasalamex,

It's nice that you care so much ukhti. I don't know how much you can do on your own...I think sometimes it needs a co-ordinated group effort.

The only solution I can think of is to get together a group of volunteers to look into what these people's needs are, go out and talk to them and find out what problems pushed them into begging. Are they mainly in need of food, clothing, shelter or medicine? Then, based on the results, the volunteer group can ask well-off people to help them with funding, and set up a service that is relevant to the needs of the people. For example, if it is mostly for food, you could use any large masjid that has a kitchen and put together meals that don't cost much to make and that you can give away at a certain time, and then send someone to let the people know about it until word gets around. I have seen this happen at the main masjid of a city I used to live in after every jum'ah prayer. I know the problem is so huge, and you would probably have to turn most of the people away at first, but with time you could recruit more volunteers, get more publicity and more donations in sha Allah.

Or if there were a lot of people needing clothing, or items for children, you could set up one team to collect secondhand items from wealthy neighbourhoods and another to distribute them among those who need them. Just an idea.

EDIT: Just re-reading the thread and seeing other problems: If you could set up such a service in the short term, you could also try and link it to local services to do with employment and education, literacy classes etc. to try and avoid people becoming dependent in sha Allah.

:salamext:

JazakAllahu khair to all the replies.

Sister, with regards to your query about the needs in this country:

- Unemployment - In South Africa, we have a youth unemployment rate that is cited at ~48%!

- HIV: We have the highest incidence of HIV world-wide, with over 5 million people infected.
I do not have the words to describe how our country has been affected by this disease - we are literally drowning : (
A typical public sector general medical ward would have admitted ~80-90% of patients who are HIV positive with another opportunistic infection on board.

Those affected are the young (20s-40s+) adults, who should be out in the working force, but are instead incapacitated by this disease, and are supported on disability grants.

- Orphans: as a result of the HIV epidemic, children are often left as orphans (having lost both parents to the virus)......resulting in thousands of 'child-headed' households.
These kids resort to begging and other forms of illegal activities, in a desperation to keep their siblings and themselves alive.

- Illegal Immigrants: we have a large number of illegal immigrants that enter the country - often fleeing from even worse circumstances in their own countries (mostly from neigbouring Zimbabwe, Nigeria, and other north african countries).
As they do not carry the required documentation, they cannot find employment - and hence live off begging and often crime.
Of late, there has been many incidents of 'Xenophobic' attacks - locals killing foreigners, who they perceive to be taking away employment from them.

- Education: Our standards of education is declining with each year.
Unfortunately, most of our beggars are not skilled at all - to be able to provide them employment opportunities.
To be able to get them off the streets, means that they need to be enrolled into a programme that can provide them with basic skills to be marketable.
This is a challenge in itself.

These are just some of the factors that is fuelling this issue.


Unfortunately, the problem is so great, and is growing each day, that there are just not enough places of shelter/ orphanages, etc to adequately cope with this problem.

I have written to 2 charity organisations, asking for input/ advice/ suggestions to our the situation of our beggars.
I am still waiting for a reply.

Personally, it weighs heavily on me.
I feel guilty for not extending my hand to someone who is begging at an intersection.
I feel guilty when I do......for I know that I am not really helping them at all (in the long run, I may even be fuelling the problem).


I wish I could take a double-decker bus.....pick up all the beggars on the road......take them to a resort.....give them a bath, clean clothes, food and some training......and then set them out again into the world to let them help themselves again.

If only it was that simple......imsad


:wasalamex
Reply

sister herb
04-02-2013, 09:50 PM
Salam alaykum

May Allah helps you to help others - and also reward you about your wish to help.
Reply

~Zaria~
04-02-2013, 11:09 PM
Ameen sister.


When Allah Taa'la blesses us with health, wealth, imaan and every other blessing, it is meant to be utilised for the benefit of those, whom he has tested by the denial of such bounties.

My greatest fear is that I am going to be accountable oneday for not doing enough :cry:
Reply

Innocent Soul
04-21-2013, 03:38 PM
^ I used to give a particular beggar money whenever I wanted to give I just believed that maybe it would be of some help I know that he might be not a real beggar. But one day I saw him smoking a cigarette and after that I could never believe any beggar.

Read this story related to the topic. So had to bump the thread.

"Why is sleeping child in the hands of beggars? Have you ever wondered ... "

This article I read a few months ago. Who is the author of, I don't know.
Please read…..

""Near the metro station sits a woman of uncertain age. Women’s hair is confused and dirty, her head bowed in grief.

The woman sits on the dirty floor and next to her lies a bag. In that bag people throw money. On the hands of a woman, asleep, is a two year old baby. He's in a dirty hat and dirty clothes.

“Madonna with baby” - numerous passers-by will donate money. The people of our kind- we always feel sorry for less fortunate. We are ready to give unfortunate people the last shirt, the last penny out of your pocket and never think another issue.
Helping, seems like. “Good job done”...

I walked past a beggar for a month. Did not give any money, as I knew that this is a gang operated scam and money collected by the beggar will be given to whoever controls beggars in the area. Those people own numerous luxury properties and cars.Oh and beggar also gets something, of course “ A bottle of vodka in the evening and a döner kebab”.

A month later, walking past the beggars, as shock, it suddenly hit me….
I'm staying at a busy crossing, stared at the baby, dressed as always- dirty track suit. I realized that it
seemed "wrong", finding a child in a dirty underground station from morning to evening.
The baby slept. Never sobbed or screamed, always asleep, burying his face in the knee of a woman who was his MUM.

Do any of you, dear readers, have children? Remember how often they slept at the age of 1-2-3 years? Hour two, maximum three (not consecutive)
afternoon nap, and again – movement. For the whole month, every day of my walking in the underground, I've never seen a child awake! I looked
at the tiny little man, with his face buried in the knee of his mother, then at the beggar, and my suspicion was gradually formed.

– Why he sleeps all the time? I asked, staring at the baby.

The beggar pretended not to hear me. She lowered her eyes and hid her face in the collar of her shabby jacket. I repeated the question. The woman again
looked up. She looked somewhere behind my back, tired with utter irritation. Her look was similar to the creatures from a different planet.

-F **k off ... her lips murmured.

-Why is he asleep?! I almost cried ...

Behind me someone put his hand on my shoulder. I looked back. A some old man was looking at me disapprovingly:

– What do you want from her? Can’t you see how hard she’s got it in her life… Eh …
He gets some coins from his pocket and throws them in the beggar’s bag.

Beggar made a hand wave of a cross, portraying the face of humility and universal
grief. The guy removed his hand from my shoulder and strolled out of the underground station.
I bet, at home, he will tell how he defended poor, distraught woman from a soulless man in a tube station.

Next day I called a friend. It was a funny man with eyes like olives Romanian nationality. He only managed to complete three and a half years of education. The complete lack of education does not prevent him from moving around the
City streets on very expensive foreign cars and live in a “small” house with countless number of windows and balconies. From my friend I managed to find out that this business, despite the apparent
spontaneity, clearly organized. Its supervised by begging organized crime rings. The children used are in "rent"
from families of alcoholics, or simply stolen.
I needed to get the answer to the question – why is the baby sleeping? And I received it. My friend Gypsy said the phrase, completely ordinary with calm voice that twisted me in shock, just like he was talking about weather report:
-They are on heroin, or vodka ...
I was dumbfounded. "Who is on heroin? Whom – under vodka?! "
He answered
-The Child, so he doesn’t scream. The women will be sitting whole day with him, imagine how he might get bored?

In order to make the baby slept the whole day, it pumped up with vodka or drugs. Of course, children's bodies are not able to cope with such a shock. And children often die. The most terrible thing – sometimes children die
during the "working day". And imaginary mother must hold another dead child on her hands until the evening. These are the rules. And the by passers-by will throw some money in the bag, and believe that they are moral. Helping
"mother alone" …
… The next day I was walking near the same underground station. I stocked up journalistic identity, and was ready for a serious conversation. But the conversation didn't work out. But turned out the following ...
A woman was sitting on the floor and in her hands she was holding a child. I asked her a question about the documents on the child, and, most importantly, where was yesterday's kid, which she simply ignored.
My questions were not ignored by passers-by. I was told that I was out of my mind screaming at poor beggar with a child. All in all, I was escorted out of the tube station in disgrace. One thing remained was to call the police. When police arrived, beggar with the baby disappeared. I stood with a full sense of - “I'm trying to fight windmills”.

When you see in the subway, on the street whether women with children,
begging, think before your hand climb for money. Think about that, if it wasn't for your hundreds of thousands of handouts, the business like this would have died. The business would die and not the children-inflated with vodka or
drugs. Do not look at the sleeping child with affection. See horror… Since you're reading this article, you know now- why the child is sleeping in beggars hands.

P.S.
If you copy this article on your wall or just click "Share", your friends will read it too.
And when you decide again to open your wallet to throw a coin to a beggar, remember that this
charity could cost another child's life.""
Reply

M.I.A.
04-21-2013, 03:50 PM
i once met a man in a busy part of town and he gave me a sob story and needed money to travel and was injured.

so i gave it to him.


saw the same guy in a drive through a few years later, better.. different story but same question.

i gave him money but he didnt recognise me.



funny thing is it mirrors my own life as i felt like i was begging at the time.

working for almost nothing and pressuring for a job.

...i didnt get the job lol and felt harshly done by.


at the same time a few weeks earlier (same job) i had to go to an office to collect my weekly wage (£80)
as soon as i got out a women asked me to help her, i had given her change before but this time had nothing but my wage packet.

as fools do i opened it and gave her a note.



since i no longer visit that part of town much i dont see many beggers.

but a sucker will always be a sucker.


on self reflection, i make poor life decisions apparently.


but if you have ever been on the neglected side it is easy to do so.




i understand most of them act for money. but who do they act as?


but it is very hard to apply for a change of role.






....added a youtube link, not good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZjm0iL-izo
Reply

Naeema
04-23-2013, 03:19 PM
When I lived in a particular city in the US, I would see beggars regularly. Some were perhaps more capable than others. There is one woman, however, that I remember vividly. She was with her child of approximately 10. Her child looked to be well cared for and fed. Her child had some type of disability, both physical and mental. She was as thin as a rail.

The night I saw her, I stopped. I took them both to a cafe and the three of us had dinner together. She initially refused to get anything for herself, but I insisted - she was so thin. She initially was silent, but as I sat with her, she slowly opened up.

Her son needed lots of extra help as a infant and young child. She had stopped working to care for her son. Her husband left last year - vanished in the night. With no income and no real way to work, she ended up losing her apartment and living on the street. Most shelters were for men only. The few who could take families had limited space and she was on a waiting list for beds. But then she worried about what she would do next? How was she really going to fix her situation? Her son needed both an education and reliable care. It's hard to do that for this child and work at the same time. It's hard to feed one person on minimum wage, let alone two.

Then we talked about a concert that had been in a park a few nights ago. She came alive talking about the music. So did her son. The light shown from their faces as they both waved their hands over bowls of hearty soup conducting an invisible orchestra.

So while there are terrible things, like gangs that organize desperate people into little horrid enterprises, sometimes a beggar is simply a person who needs help. I spent my grocery money for the week on the meal. I do not regret a penny.
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sister herb
04-23-2013, 03:55 PM
Unfortunately those people whose are not in real need but begg on the streets hurts those who really are in need.
Reply

islamica
04-25-2013, 03:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Unfortunately those people whose are not in real need but begg on the streets hurts those who really are in need.
Like this pretender making Muslimahs look bad...

http://youtu.be/jHF2QiyRHLs
Reply

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