Pres. Morsi: Enforcing Hijab is ridiculous, & not from Shariah

[Cabdullahi]

[~Zaria~]

Edit

Allah knows best.

['Abd-al Latif]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Whose the clown in this video?

Egyption President Mohamed Morsi of ikhwaani al-muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood).

In fairness he's spoken in general terms and hasn't voilated anything Islamically by saying what he just said. This is proven when he says "Our Lord has given a choice to believe in Islam or disbelieve". This is clearly suggesting that if you disbelieve in Islam then the hijab is not compulsary upon women, if you do then it is. This deliberate use of ambuigity is used to show that non-Muslims in Egypt will not be forced to do things that are binding upon a Muslim; however if any of the actions of the non-Muslims lead to anything haram then the "Qanun (legislation) will intervene", thus clearly showing that Islamic Law (shari'ah) inshaa'Allah will dominate Egypt.

[~Zaria~]

Egyption President Mohamed Morsi of ikhwaani al-muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood).

In fairness he's spoken in general terms and hasn't voilated anything Islamically by saying what he just said. This is proven when he says "Our Lord has given a choice to believe in Islam or disbelieve". This is clearly suggesting that if you disbelieve in Islam then the hijab is not compulsary upon women, if you do then it is. This deliberate use of ambuigity is used to show that non-Muslims in Egypt will not be forced to do things that are binding upon a Muslim; however if any of the actions of the non-Muslims lead to anything haram then the "Qanun (legilation) will intervene", thus clearly showing that Islamic Law (shari'ah) inshaa'Allah will dominate Egypt.

JazakAllah khair akhee,

I do know who he is.....

My point being that I can not take one seriously, who choses to undermine this deen.

He has been blessed by Allah to govern a muslim state - what an immense responsibility!

While he has mentioned freedom of choice in belief in Allah, which is true - the rest of his message can be interpreted to be addressed to both muslims and non-muslims.

His words:

"So the one who wishes to wear the hijab she can do so, and the one who wants to wear what she sees appropiate from her point of view is free to do so.

Will she harm the society (through this)?

(Is he serious?.....)

If this behaviour turns into something that harms the society (on a general level as is the case with anything), then the legislation will intervene....."

What new legislation is he trying to deliver here?

Is this the legislation of Allah??


May Allah guide our muslim leaders towards what HE has commanded.
Ameen.

:wa:

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[Mr.President]

I just want to ask because I don't know about islamic Law !

When prophet muhammed was a leader and a president what was the law regarding women's dress code and

on that time did he punish any women because she did not wear hijab ?

['Abd-al Latif]

Before we jump the gun and start throwing accusations, I urge you to find out the context in which he said this. There has been no controversy regarding this statement from anyone so obviously what was said was said in the correct context. This speech is specifically in reference to the social and political situation in Egypt and not a ban in hijab.

To everyone: please be aware that I will remove any ranting.

[~Zaria~]

Before we jump the gun and start throwing accusations, I urge you to find out the context in which he said this. There has been no controversy regarding this statement from anyone so obviously what was said was said in the correct context. This speech is specifically in reference to the social and political situation in Egypt and not a ban in hijab.

To everyone: please be aware that I will remove any ranting.

The comments made are purely in relation to his actual words.
If his speech is directly solely towards non-muslims who reside in Egypt, then a different understanding can be applied.

If not, then we should be reminded that Allah (subhanawataála) has clearly defined what is halaal and what is haraam for us.

It is not for any man (irrespective of his position in society) to decide otherwise.

"Or have they other deities who have ordained for them a religion to which Allah has not consented? But if not for the decisive word, it would have been concluded between them. And indeed, the wrongdoers will have a painful punishment." (Quran 42:21)


Allah knows best,

:wa:

['Abd-al Latif]

As I said, find out the context it was said in.

[~Zaria~]

According to Morsi, cutting the hands of the thief is also not from the shariah.
SubhanAllah.

[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. (Quran 5:38)

As the poster of this video says: "This is what happens when you attempt to please people before Allah."

[جوري]

According to Morsi, cutting the hands of the thief is also not from the shariah.
SubhanAllah.

Have you the slightest clue how much Mursi is being fought for trying to implement sharia and taking the power to do so from the Distouria court which was instated by the old secular corrupt regime and put it in the hands of Al-Azhar?
btw. He's a hafith of the Quran and the first president to be and so are all of his kids. In shaa Allah if you can find someone who is able to do better to recommend him to govern Muslims.
We don't agree with all of Mursi's decisions but we appreciate the difficulty of his transition from a completely secular regime to trying to put life in article 2 with later articles. When the likes of El-Baradi are going on to christian amanapour and telling her the country is falling in the hands of Islamists and that we need a secular Egypt. I also ask you to answer me this.
When a man came to Umar ibn Ilkhtaab telling him that two young boys stole from him, whether Umar :ra: chopped off their hands or let them go while threatening to cut off the hands of their employer which is in fact NOT MENTIONED IN THE QURAN.

I'll give you a bit to answer that one because indeed some issues require fiqh in deen and aren't simply the law per his statement above!

:w:

[جوري]

his first video he says he can't force someone to wear Hijaab. I don't see anything wrong with that do you?

[aamirsaab]

Personally, I don't think he's said anything wrong in either of the videos.

[Insaanah]

May Allah guide him and help him to do what is right, forgive his and our shortcomings, and grant honour and the upper hand to Islam and Muslims, ameen. May his leadership be a catalyst for change for the better, both in Egypt and around the world, ameen.

[جوري]

It shouldn't be about personal opinion but should indeed be about fiqh in deen and the law. The first video he's answering the accusation that he's going to go about forcing women to wear Hijab. Well I ask you- even the most pious of leaders ever forced anyone to do anything per their ibadaat? Did the prophet :saws: force people to give up wine? in fact they did it out of pure conviction. The minute the ruling was passed the streets of Medina flooded spontaneously with wine that it looked as i a river of blood- the conviction has to come from within not enforced by a ruler and even Umar :ra: who truly ruled with justice and an iron grip didn't stone a girl who was an adulterer who had repented and told her father not to mention it to her would be suitor, he didn't cut off the hands of the two boy thieves for they were being starved by their employer. If one followed the law without thought- it would be like a doctor going only by symptoms without thought when many ailments present in the same fashion there will be many an erroneous diagnosis. Indeed it is a matter of fiqh in the deen and he's trying very hard- in fact I urge any critic to turn on the TV to what is going on in Egypt and follow it in totality to have the slightest clue just how much he's being fought every step of the way and how much his opposition is being funded from the west and by khalfan of UAE in the millions in fact while the people starve and the economy collapses before shaking their disparaging fingers left and right. Also if you can do better or know of one who can do better in this day and age to please either step forward or be an active part of it. 7 Muslim brotherhood members died last tuesday trying to undo a coup against the freely elected president because the opposition is requesting that NO ISLAMIC FLAVOR whatsoever be added to the Constitution.
He has done a **** good job :alhamd: with the cards his dealt. His wife please google her was being attacked by a mob of 400 thugs last week in her very modest home.
I tolerate many things really and many of them are quite unfair and I shrug it off to someone not understanding the situation fully and it happens often and not everyone has have the same political insight especially if they're far removed from the ME and no clue how everything is being manipulated from the outside- but these accusations I find utterly indefensible!

:w:

[جوري]

Here's Dr. Mursi's wife - Image removed by moderator -

now show me the wife of any of the previous 'clowns' as you put it and then let's have this conversation again!

['Abd-al Latif]

I want to clarify here that he is not compromising belief in Allah at all. He is not promoting anything that will taint the true Islamic creed of worshipping Allah alone and is slowly easing the haram and halal matters in a state where people are complaining one way or the other. He may not at this early stage have favourable circumstances to allow and disallow all matters of law (fiqh) fully, but I can say that what Mohamed Morsi has done has a good job so far despite the increasingly difficult circumstances. May Allah keep him steadfast on Islam.

Secondly, it is possible that in the previous regime of Husni Mubarak women may have been forced to wear hijab – without knowledge or understanding of hijab. The cutting of the hands may also have been done in a way that contradicts the Islamic practise of punishing a thief. Nevertheless, I believe it's safe to say that Morsi will strive day and night to apply the complete Islamic Law (with the backing of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyption Sufi's and hardcore Salafi's among many other religious groups) regardless of the unclarity of his message he is giving now.

Let's wait and see what he actually does as opposed to what he is saying (or not saying for that matter).

[جوري]

it is possible that in the previous regime of Husni Mubarak women may have been forced to wear hijab

More like forced to take it off, Niqab especially and by mandate that his men pass religious edicts to the matter- women were being thrown out of restaurants and resorts and some universities no different than Tunisia or Turkey!

I don't think many people appreciate what it feels like to feel like a stranger in a so-called Muslim majority country.

:w:

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

I appreciate the sentiments of support from the above posters.

To make my own clear, I am not here to critisize that which I possibly do not (completely) understand.

However, when I see the laws of Allah being twisted to suit a particular situation by current day Neo-Salafis, then to this I do object.

Personally, I don't think he's said anything wrong in either of the videos.

Allah has already declared what is halaal and haraam.
So, if a muslim woman were to follow this advice, it is quite simply against the laws of Allah:

"So the one who wishes to wear the hijab she can do so, and the one who wants to wear what she sees appropiate from her point of view is free to do so.

Will she harm the society (through this)?

If this behaviour turns into something that harms the society (on a general level as is the case with anything), then the legislation will intervene....."

It would have been better to remain silent on the matter than to say that which is not from Islam.


Coming from a country that has had its own fair share of oppression, I can in some way relate and appreciate the efforts made by the Muslim Brotherhood.
They are often compared to our equivalent 'freedom fighters' - the African National Congress (ANC), that liberated South Africa out of apartheid.

However, being under the rule of the ANC since the early 1990s has left us with a different share of problems (which is a thread for another day).

My point being - alhamdulillah, we can be excited about Egypts future under new leadership.

But, we should also remain wary, especially in these times that are drawing us closer towards the end.....
Sometimes, all is not as it appears to be.

I have had the opportunity, a few months ago, to attend a lecture as well as dine with, the son of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.
MashaAllah, he has alot of passion in what he says......but unfortunately, myself and many others, just cannot accept the views of our 'Neo-Salafi' brothers - that are promoted in such a way as if it is the law of Allah.
(In fact, I almost wanted to walk out of the lecture.....)
So, perhaps this is where my reservations stem from as well.....


Insha Allah, I only hope for the best for Egypts new leadership.

Only Allah knows what is in the hearts of man, and what the future holds.

May Allah guide him and help him to do what is right, forgive his and our shortcomings, and grant honour and the upper hand to Islam and Muslims, ameen. May his leadership be a catalyst for change for the better, both in Egypt and around the world, ameen.

Ameen.


:wa:

[جوري]

I have had the opportunity, a few months ago, to attend a lecture as well as dine with, the son of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.
MashaAllah, he has alot of passion in what he says......but unfortunately, myself and many others, just cannot accept the views of our 'Neo-Salafi' brothers - that are promoted in such a way as if it is the law of Allah.

Muslim brotherhood aren't 'neo-salafis' in fact the ones who proclaim to be salafis have preferred not to join in the protests and are thinking over whether or not to vote yes to the constitution given that it is considered secular even though it is the first of its kind that would actually put a religious soul to article II and a no vote would enable the secularists to gain major grounds and put the country back at least 11 months into more chaos & instability!
The Law of Allah :swt: isn't a blind edict passed without conditions in fact per definition: Fiqh is an expansion of the Sharia Islamic law!
Let's not call our brothers and sisters 'clowns' then or accuse them of not following sharia without context or understanding to the socio/economic and geopolitical situation and if we can do better than let's step forward and do the better!

:w:

[Signor]

To all of you who are going loose on Morsi,Keep in mind the Egyptian government is not an Islamic Government or a Caliphate rather its Muslim "Democratic" Government.

Also you can say anything about him but if you have been living under a tyrant ruler who don't even allow Muslim men to establish Salaat in Masjids then you can understand the importance of him as ruler.

The above are two different facts to consider and none of us can change ground realities.

Assalamu Alaikum

['Abd-al Latif]

However, when I see the laws of Allah being twisted to suit a particular situation by current day Neo-Salafis, then to this I do object.

I have had the opportunity, a few months ago, to attend a lecture as well as dine with, the son of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.
MashaAllah, he has alot of passion in what he says......but unfortunately, myself and many others, just cannot accept the views of our 'Neo-Salafi' brothers - that are promoted in such a way as if it is the law of Allah.
(In fact, I almost wanted to walk out of the lecture.....)
So, perhaps this is where my reservations stem from as well.....

Does he call himself a neo-salafi? Don't think so.

How can you even call this "laws being twisted to suit a particular situation"? Those who are religious have no problem with the laws and these speeches are largely not even for them. In fact religious Egyptians are protesting for the laws to be implemented and for Morsi to be given the right to completely implement Shariah! It's the secularists and non-Muslims who have explicitly stated that they do not want Shari'ah in spite of the fact that the latter are a minority!

Morsi in the first video is very clearly questioning indirectly where the stance of all Muslims in Egypt is because if one is Muslim then hijab is not going to be a problem. If one is a kafir then there's no obligation to wear hijab. He is not discouraging, prohibiting or going to the other extreme of forcing hijab because making the hijab compulsory right now is not the time – and he has never denied the hijab.

This is the thing about Muslims who live in the west. We don't hear the adhaan everyday from our homes, we don't have access to scholars in our local mosques but we live in a place where we can just about do the basics. Therefore, quite obviously our situation is not the same as in Egypt because in Egypt we have all the aforementioned but that they have their own set of problems.

If at any point Morsi explicitly or even implicitly denied the hijab, cutting of the hands or any other Islamic law then the very people who support him will abandon him!

You wouldn't bother telling a non-Muslim woman to wear hijab because she's a non-Muslim so why would you so horribly call Morsi of "twisting laws"?

[جوري]

To all of you who are going loose on Morsi,Keep in mind the Egyptian government is not an Islamic Government or a Caliphate rather its Muslim "Democratic" Government.

Also you can say anything about him but if you have been living under a tyrant ruler who don't even allow Muslim men to establish Salaat in Masjids then you can understand the importance of him as ruler.

The above are two different facts to consider and none of us can change ground realities.

Assalamu Alaikum

You couldn't make it to any political office if you sported a beard... we still considered this not to be as bad as Turkey where religious inclinations offered you an off with your head-we thought in Egypt well at least you couldn't have this job or that job, this university or that university but got to keep your head. I don't think people fully appreciate how hatred is so deeply rooted in these so-called Muslim countries and how difficult it is to uproot it is no different from the days of jahilya... We still have abu jahl and the likes in our midst even if they sport names like Muhammad.

[جوري]

You wouldn't bother telling a non-Muslim woman to wear hijab because she's a non-Muslim so why would you so horribly call it twisting laws?

The question I'd like to pose is can you 'force' which were his words and I am a native Arabic speaker can you indeed force any woman Muslim or otherwise to wear hijab? Islam isn't a by force religion!
& Allah :swt: knows best!

:w:

[marwen]

Situation in Egypt is very very hard today. Any call for shariah will be faced by a ferocious opposition, not only by non muslims but by some parties and groups who call themselves "muslims" or liberal/modern muslims. I can't imagine it's possible or at least easy for any muslim scholar or muslim learder from today, no matter how is he strong or committed to his religion, to apply plain shariah in egypt, while some of the egyptian people are not informed about shariah and have lived for years in disobediance and think shariah is alien. They need some time and some work to learn islam again. It is the same here in tunisia and may be worst.

I can't islamically justify many of Mursi's words, and I agree to sister Zaria's opinion to some extent, may be not exactly the way she described the man, but yeah. That's said I also understand the situation he's facing and why he sometimes uses 'hikma' and patience, because there are many wild animals around him who hate even the idea of islam, and who are ready to destroy the country and make a big fitna. Just watch some egyptian channels who are against Mursi and you will understand every thing.
Egyptian muslims lived a long period in oppression and in a regime which is against Islam, now things are changing but not as speedy as they thought, so they should have patience and wisdom and learn when to be strict and when to be soft.
May Allah help muslims in Egyt and everywhere.

[Signor]

You couldn't make it to any political office if you sported a beard... we still considered this not to be as bad as Turkey where religious inclinations offered you an off with your head-we thought in Egypt well at least you couldn't have this job or that job, this university or that university but got to keep your head. I don't think people fully appreciate how hatred is so deeply rooted in these so-called Muslim countries and how difficult it is to uproot it is no different from the days of jahilya... We still have abu jahl and the likes in our midst even if they sport names like Muhammad.

I guess you are talking about the era of Mubarak,right?

I didn't mentioned anything but something which directly contradicts Mubarak's action from Qura'an otherwise list of his wrong doings according to Islam is a long one while keeping in mind he is a 'Muslim Ruler'

[CosmicPathos]

who cares???!

[~Zaria~]

Perhaps our definitions of 'neo-salafis' may differ from where we are based.....included in this definition, being militant religious groups who have salafi beliefs but with a political project.

As I have mentioned, his quoted words on the issue of hijab - are not from islam (if it includes the muslim audience. If it is directed only to non-muslims, then it is a different matter).

He has clearly stated that cutting off the hands of the thief is NOT from sharia - he is not discussing an individual case, and the circumstances when it should/ should not be applied - but in general terms, he says that it is NOT from sharia.

(it is easy to understand why some see these views as salafi inclined.)


As I have said, my reference to 'clown' stems from:

"My point being that I can not take one seriously, who choses to undermine this deen."


Insha Allah, He guides the decisions and words of this president for the benefit of this ummah.

:wa:

[جوري]

He has clearly stated that cutting off the hands of the thief is NOT from sharia - he is not discussing an individual case

That's what the word 'Fiqh' means in his speech- an individual basis. That it is a judicial matter, I reference you to my earlier post!

:w:

[جوري]

I guess you are talking about the era of Mubarak,right?

Yup!

I didn't mentioned anything but something which directly contradicts Mubarak's action from Qura'an otherwise list of his wrong doings according to Islam is a long one while keeping in mind he is a 'Muslim Ruler'

I am not sure what you mean by this specific statement. But scholars have listed ten things that put one outside the folds of Islam:



under those ten are about 400 articles.. Thus a ruler doesn't have to stand on the pulpit and declare that he's a kaffir to be declared one.

and Allah :swt: knows best,

:w:

[~Zaria~]

^ To say that it is not from Shariah (which is law declared by Allah unto to His slaves, by means of Al-Quraan and Sunnah of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) ), but it forms part of 'fiqh' - is actually a contradiction (because fiqh is derived from Allah's laws).

Salaam

[Insaanah]

:sl:

It's sad to see religious labels being applied here, as it happens labels I've never even heard of.

It is easy to sit from afar in our chairs in front of our computers and phones, and criticise, but no matter how good we may consider ourselves, given the leadership of a country, we may do immense wrong and be unjust - we could in fact be the worst.

Inshaa'Allah president Dr Mursi will, as he deals with affairs, grow in wisdom, knowledge and confidence. Nobody is perfect, and indeed our leaders shoulder a large responsibility for their subjects, which they will be accountable for.

For such a longstanding oppressive regime beloved to the west to have finished like that without foreign occupation and invasion, and a leader of Islamic leaning to have been chosen by the populace themselves, is almost a miracle in this day and age.

When we look at some other Muslim rulers, he is better than many.

It would be great if there was a perfect Muslim leader who's every decision was correct, and as soon as he got into office implemented Shari3ah overnight in every aspect of life in a 100% correct fashion. But nobody is perfect. Let us pray for him instead. Our du3as can help him if Allah answers them - our criticism, here on this board, most likely won't.

And Allah knows best.

[Tyrion]

As I have mentioned, his quoted words on the issue of hijab - are not from islam (if it includes the muslim audience. If it is directed only to non-muslims, then it is a different matter).

I don't want to get into politics, but I'm curious about your reaction to this. If I understood what's being said correctly, he said something to the effect of, "Women shouldn't be forced to wear the hijab, they can choose". Am I right? If so, I see no reason why you would be so annoyed. A Muslim (and obviously non-Muslim) woman is free to choose the hijab or to leave it. This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it's required in Islam. We have free will for a reason, and wearing religious garb is a manifestation of that freedom. No government or person should force anyone to do/wear something they deem to be a religious requirement, since that would completely defeat the point of the religion and choosing to do good.

[Signor]

I am not sure what you mean by this specific statement. But scholars have listed ten things that put one outside the folds of Islam

What I meant here is not issuing a self fatwa of Kaafir(Allah forbids and saves us from doing it).I only seconded your post by mentioning,he not only terrorize young man after they grew beards but also convict them with various charges if they went offering salaat in Mosques etc...I am trying to imply leave the sunnah of beard(assuming its in your hands) He restricts men from Aqa'mahtus Salaat in osques.I hope it makes sense now

[Signor]

@ Sis Zaria

I can see from where you are coming from but as I mentioned earlier:

To all of you who are going loose on Morsi,Keep in mind the Egyptian government is not an Islamic Government or a Caliphate rather its Muslim "Democratic" Government.

Also you can say anything about him but if you have been living under a tyrant ruler who don't even allow Muslim men to establish Salaat in Masjids then you can understand the importance of him as ruler.

The above are two different facts to consider and none of us can change ground realities.

Remember it was hard road for Egyptian people where they are standing now and its a democratic setup not Islamic one.

[جوري]

^ To say that it is not from Shariah (which is law declared by Allah unto to His slaves, by means of Al-Quraan and Sunnah of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) ), but it forms part of 'fiqh' - is actually a contradiction (because fiqh is derived from Allah's laws).

Salaam

What he said is obvious: one size doesn't fit all, that it is a matter of fiqh and fiqh is an expansion of sharia one isn't separate from the other. Did you follow what happened when he tried to remove the former corrupt judge who ruled with a non guilty verdict to all those responsible for the death of those who revolted on January 25th? Well if you've been following the events of late you'd have a clue as to the depth and difficulty of the road he is on to fixate on a term without fully understanding what he is trying to say.
They don't want him to have a grip over the judiciary body in Egypt even though he enabled this act and placed this new judge only for a limited time until the election and it is indeed what the people want justice for their martyrs, it is something that is done all the time is mentioned in article 14 in the French Constitution and even bush declared such a state of emergency and passed crazy laws immediately post 911. No one questioned him, with Mursi no such luck you've a high treasonous individual like El-baradi asking for western interference and a coup against a rightfully elected president for curbing the rights of 'Al ma7kama ad'doustoria' which prior this very court dissolved the parliament which was a good 75% Islamist ruled by popular vote and the same court which by the way is solely hand picked by the former corrupt regime was about to do the same thing to his very office and declare it illegitimate while sending their thugs to the itahdiya palace where the 'Islamists' learned of the coup and went to stop it which cost 7 of them their lives. There's too many details that I can't share here because it would take volumes and I am trying to give you a clue so when you pass judgement as you have above you'd have some semblance of understanding of what is going on. We have to add to that mixture suwaris the copt, Ahmad shafiq who he ran against Mursi for a last minute grip on the country and who has 30 some corruption charges against him and zillions of dollars and was a direct counsel to the former regime and has the support of the likes of khalfan of Emirates who also has ties to Murdoch and sky news both running day full tirades against the Muslim brotherhood. Yes even so called Muslims conspire and spend their money to debar men from the path of Allah!

Mursi has taken temporarily the power away from this court and they of course called him a dictator and a tyrant and the judiciary matters once this constitution is approved and that is a big if will no longer go to the hands of corrupt judges most of them not judges at all or even those with law degrees but were working for the old regime and in shaa Allah directly into the hands of al-Azhar. He has given Christians & Jews similar rights for matters that concern their religion again instead of going to that secular hand appointed court. Then again you've the liked of El baradi asking what about Buddhists what about this what about that. There's so much corruption so much going on against this man that walhi I challenge anyone in here at all who thinks they can do better inheriting what he did of 100 some yrs of nonsense to do so!
But I'll not tolerate the superficial nonsense taken out of context and name calling.. This is a good time in fact to keep silent if nothing positive can be said and to reflect deeply of the consequences of not supporting the only Islamic leadership we've had from a very long time. You want to know where Dr. Mursi spent many years of his adult life for opposing the old regime? Yes him and the rest have spent it mostly in Jail and that's indeed what will happen again but with vengeance if Muslims don't step up to the plate.

:w:

[جوري]

What I meant here is not issuing a self fatwa of Kaafir(Allah forbids and saves us from doing it).I only seconded your post by mentioning,he not only terrorize young man after they grew beards but also convict them with various charges if they went offering salaat in Mosques etc...I am trying to imply leave the sunnah of beard(assuming its in your hands) He restricts men from Aqa'mahtus Salaat in osques.I hope it makes sense now

It does indeed but many have already passed takfir- it isn't in my hand- I recall many things from the days of sa7aba when the ruler goes out of bounds and we're talking from an already 'Islamically established' Ummah that he can be fought.. Umar Ibn Ilkhtaab when choosing a khalif one his death bed and even though he was sitting in the midst of those who were given the glad tiding of paradise ordered his son that whomever dissents to take the sword to his head. Over here we can't even compare- we're politically occupied in some regions and physically by foreign forces in others. Those leaders are kaffirs not through a 'self fatwah' but as already passed by our scholars and it is indeed obvious to the naked eye.. I have given above a lecture on guideline they use to pass this takffir. But that's a story for another day as we've to deal with the current situation.

btw a democracy even though is completely deficient from an Islamic shura system- Isn't in and of itself the law.. in other words this democracy has brought them the 'Islamists' and they're unhappy about it and trying with all their strength to undermine it should showcase that democracy or not it doesn't matter so long as it brings a secular law. And we're frankly tired of secularism especially in a 95% majority Muslim country. They've no respect whatsoever for majority vote or majority want.

:w:

[~Zaria~]

Time will tell insha Allah.....


Perhaps my interactions with members of the muslim brotherhood has tainted by perception of this.....
As well as the fact that I have been unintentionally involved with a salafi group (until recently)....so I am aware of its full implications.

And even though i realise that this is not a sharia-ruled state at present, it pains me to hear muslim leaders make comments that are filled with ambiguity (or is it? Allah knows best).

It is not my intention to be unduly critical or judgemental.

May Allah forgive me for my short-comings and deficiencies.
And may He protect this ummah by means of leaders who always strive to uphold His deen.
Ameen

:wa:

[Signor]

btw a democracy even though is completely deficient from an Islamic shura system- Isn't in and of itself the law.. in other words this democracy has brought them the 'Islamists' and they're unhappy about it and trying with all their strength to undermine it should showcase that democracy or not it doesn't matter so long as it brings a secular law. And we're frankly tired of secularism especially in a 95% majority Muslim country. They've no respect whatsoever for majority vote or majority want.

Actually,If I am not aware of the conditions there,I will not have any clue what you are saying.Ikhwaan ul Muslimeen had and still the best Egypt has to offer(i.e Scholars,Literary Personnel etc). I don't agree with there political strategy(using democracy) as this can't bring Islam to a country,however,this doesn't brings any question of eligibility of Muslim Brotherhood.It is the most favorite party and only secular powers hates them.Now how Islam views democracy as a ruling setup thats another story for another time.

God Bless

[جوري]

I don't see this from Muslim leaders unfortunately:

I may not be happy with everything that is being done.. I am not happy about the fact that he has to take loans Allah a3lam with interest or what when we can be loaned that money from Muslim countries but they'd rather spend it to debar men from the path of Allah wala 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. but I pray that Allah swt makes him steadfast and that it becomes a prelude and an excellent model for all other Muslim countries.. many of them especially those of them that are monarchies are crapping their pants by now.

:w:

[جوري]

Actually,If I am not aware of the conditions there,I will not have any clue what you are saying.Ikhwaan ul Muslimeen had and still the best Egypt has to offer(i.e Scholars,Literary Personnel etc). I don't agree with there political strategy(using democracy) as this can't bring Islam to a country,however,this doesn't brings any question of eligibility of Muslim Brotherhood.It is the most favorite party and only secular powers hates them.Now how Islam views democracy as a ruling setup thats another story for another time.

God Bless

I agree with you but for the state that we're in right now we need a transition to ease us into what it is to come.. I can write so much on this and I think if you speak Arabic you'll really enjoy this site:

http://www.almaqreze.net/ar/index.php

but you know I often use the example that a woman doesn't conceive and give birth in one day and Islam itself wasn't established in one day.. there were days of hijrah and persecution before it became an ummah and unfortunately for us that is just where we're right now.. but I think it needs to move forward and not backwards & I believe :ia: that Allah :swt: is causing us the gradual change that we need for where we actually need to be.

[Signor]

I believe Allah that Allah is causing us the gradual change that we need for where we actually need to be.

Aameen

To clarify,I am not an Arabian speaker/reader,I've Egyptian friends from whom I acquire things out of the box

[جوري]

I see.. well :jz: for telling me.. maybe you can pass that site to them and have them explain further some things to you. It is so full of nuggets historical ones especially which in my opinion is an essential part of this battle. Unfortunately many Muslims have the zeal which believe me I appreciate it is better than nothing, but very little to no foundation to back up much of their convictions whether political or religious. & I am in no way praising myself or saying that I have the political savvy or know how but I do immerse myself in study and I think it is the only way we can collectively walk aright. I know I am ill tempered when we don't all walk the same path and I feel that the race is against us and there is positively no time for disunity or niggling over petty quarrels when the enemy is gaining so much momentum fast and is in our midst scheming and look how many lives are lost in multiple ways or wasted utterly.. it pains me and aggrieves me and I am often reminded of this verse:

Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)[8:46]

[RECITE]

[top] [next match]

WaateeAAoo Allaha warasoolahu wala tanazaAAoo fatafshaloo watathhaba reehukum waisbiroo inna Allaha maAAa alssabireena

8:46 And obey Allah and His Messenger. and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For Allah is with those who patiently persevere:

:w:

[Abz2000]

When he says "the legislation will intervene" he means there will be limits on indecency and it won't be as bad as when that sick girl with a dog's head stripped and posted it to the world.

He seems to be wisely adding a decency clause over what was worse before, if so, good work.

[جوري]

when they were just still prisoners - yeah they protested before the protests but who remembers?



:w:

[theplains]

The question I'd like to pose is can you 'force' which were his words and I am a native Arabic speaker can you indeed force any woman Muslim or otherwise to wear hijab? Islam isn't a by force religion!
& Allah :swt: knows best!

:w:

Is there any basis in the Quran or the Hadiths for men to punish women who don't wear the hijab? If yes, where
exactly? If no, does this mean the men will be punished by God for executing judgment on the women?

Thanks,
Jim

[Darth Ultor]

Hijab (or any form of modest dressing up for both men and women) should be between the individual and God, not the state. As long as they don't go around half dressed or less through the streets of the cities.

[Mustafa2012]

:salamext:

Please bear in mind that we cannot jump from a country which has been ruled by Mubaarak for so many years and expect the new President to implement Shari'ah overnight. That's not realistic.

It's going to take time. Not days or months. It's going to take years. Especially so with so much opposition from secularists and liberalists.

Recognize the good efforts being made and make du'aa for Allaah :swt1: to assist Dr. Mursi in his efforts.

[جوري]

Is there any basis in the Quran or the Hadiths for men to punish women who don't wear the hijab?

No!
where do you come up with these questions?

[Logikon]

His words:

"So the one who wishes to wear the hijab she can do so, and the one who wants to wear what she sees appropiate from her point of view is free to do so.

Will she harm the society (through this)?


If this behaviour turns into something that harms the society (on a general level as is the case with anything), then the legislation will intervene....."

I read this as:

1. A woman can wear a scarf or ot ewear it as she sees fit.
This will satisfy both the muslim woman and the non muslim woman.


2. If a woman does not wear a scarf and this "harms society" they can legislate to make the scarf compulsory for all women including those who don't want to wear it.

[IslamicRevival]

Obama approved F-16 fighter jets as gift to Egypt
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-fighter-jets-egypt-856/

I wonder whats the catch? Has Morsi sold out already?

[Cabdullahi]

We have to understand that when Yusuf (as) was made chief minister after building trust with Al Azeez (After Al Azeez found out that Yusuf (as) never touched his wife) , the then king of Egypt, he didn't make drastic legislative changes hastily - bit by bit things were changed, slowly peeling off the many layers of evilness, working tactically until he was able to start his call to Allah from the position of ruling authority.

Morsi is in a very similar situation, everyone is on his back, secular muslims, egyptian christians, the west and muslim muslims. We have to be patient and see if he will deliver in due time, he took an oath that he will bring shariah and if he doesn't deliver and goes back on his word then ma'salama.

[~Zaria~]

(Im unable to open pages 2&3 of this thread, so cant quote others....)

@Logikon

When I heard the same words:

"So the one who wishes to wear the hijab she can do so, and the one who wants to wear what she sees appropiate from her point of view is free to do so.

Will she harm the society (through this)?


If this behaviour turns into something that harms the society (on a general level as is the case with anything), then the legislation will intervene....."

I heard (through the ears of a muslim woman) that - the one who wants to wear what SHE sees appropiate from HER point of view, can go ahead and do so.

I do not hear the reminder that Allah and His Rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) has commanded womenfolk to leave their homes in a certain way - that hijab is in fact an obligation (not a choice), that has been decided for us by our Creator. (whether or not this can be enforced by shariah law is for another discussion)

And so, it saddens me that this is coming from the one who intends on implementing shariah rule in his state.

Also, why ask - 'will she harm soceity through this?' - when we already know the answer to this.

Women are one of the greatest fitnahs for men, and making it seem that its ok if to leave the home in a manner that befits the individual (not Allah) - and that legislation will only intervene when it 'harms soceity' - is not from our teachings.

And hence my opposition yesterday.....these are just my opinions/ how I personally feel about this issue.

But I will bide my time, and wait for Allah to reveal what the future holds......if Allah grants me that time, insha Allah.

I realise that it will take time to implement an islamic way of life in a country that is quite far removed from this lifestyle.
And while part of me feels that change indeed takes time......

The other part of me says that we are no longer in the period of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - when revelations came down timeously, and change was structured and not sudden.

We are now in 1434H - and if you have declared yourself to be a believer of this deen, then it means that you have chosen to SUBMIT to the laws of Allah (subhanawataa'la).
We do not need to make excuses for this deen.
e.g. alchohol is haraam - do we need to slowly implement this (for the sake of the people), or do we go ahead and ban alchohol from being produced/ shipped and sold - with immediate effect? (just as an example).

Allah knows best.

:wa:

[جوري]

Obama approved F-16 fighter jets as gift to Egypt
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-fighter-jets-egypt-856/

I wonder whats the catch? Has Morsi sold out already?

That's from 2010 a deal with former admin - I don't think they can go back on a contract but it's a very bad idea unless Egypt can do its own maintenance to purchase from the U.S- but then again a country that doesn't plant its own food and make its own weapons will never be self sufficient!

['Abd-al Latif]

Hijab (or any form of modest dressing up for both men and women) should be between the individual and God, not the state. As long as they don't go around half dressed or less through the streets of the cities.

Are you Muslim?

Do you fully understand the concept of an Islamic state?

If either answer is no then you cannot say what an Islamic state should and should not do.

[جوري]

has commanded womenfolk to leave their homes in a certain way

Indeed.. but Allah :swt: hasn't forced women nor asked the leaders to force women to leave their homes in a certain way and that has always been the case. Change in the individual has to come from within not be beat into them..

The first word revealed in the noble Quran is 'Iqra' - and I think that teaches us quite a bit about divine wisdom and the directionality of the religion and that it is reason that should be a motivator to actions not force!

That's not to say I agree with all of Mursi's decisions btw I don't view him as a saint and posted quite a long piece (this time in the Arabic section) so it isn't reviled by the same two as to what is the current situation on the ground, the response that should be addressed to the so-called liberals who neither represent nor echo the demographics of Egypt but unfortunately due to corruption are deeply infiltrated and rooted in the country as Attaturk has done with Turkey are a thorn in the country. There was no way for Mursi to change to what we actually want without having a situation very similar to Syria.. We pray that the change is gradual without so much blood loss and that eventually the end result will be what we want rather through violent means. We can barely get the rights of the thousands martyrs or wounded from the revolt itself without the current crisis the country is facing. What a woman wears is really the least of Mursi's problems and if you ever visit Egypt you'll find that 90% of its citizens are in veils already so force or not the reality on the ground reflects what Allah :swt: commanded as is.
Women in Iran are forced to wear veils yet not only is the state and the individual beliefs deviant but the minute they step out it comes off.. That to me is a sorry condition since the change is superficial and not from within.

[Cabdullahi]

[Cabdullahi]

Constitution at a glance

* Sharia remains the main source of legislation.
* Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's leading authority, to be consulted on "matters related to Sharia".
* Christianity and Judaism to be the main source of legislation for Christians and Jews.
* Religious freedom to be limited to Muslims, Christians and Jews.
* Limits president to two four-year terms of office.

Taken from the bbc website.
Take with a pinch of salt.

[marwen]

^ If I understand well, Christians and Jews are not concerned by Shariah the have their own christian or jew legislation, so they should not worry.
So Shariah will be the main source of legislation for muslims only. And muslims are not happy for that, or the so called muslims.:raging: If muslims don't want shariah then who else will do. How they are muslims if they deny the basics of Islamic laws ?

[Cabdullahi]

^ If I understand well, Christians and Jews are not concerned by Shariah the have their own christian or jew legislation, so they should not worry.
So Shariah will be the main source of legislation for muslims only. And muslims are not happy for that, or the so called muslims.:raging: If muslims don't want shariah then who else will do. How they are muslims if they deny the basics of Islamic laws ?

وَيَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِالرَّسُولِ وَأَطَعْنَا ثُمَّ يَتَوَلَّىٰ فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ ذَٰلِكَ ۚ وَمَا أُولَٰئِكَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ {47}

[Yusufali 24:47] They say, "We believe in Allah and in the messenger, and we obey": but even after that, some of them turn away: they are not (really) Believers.

وَإِذَا دُعُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ مُعْرِضُونَ {48}

[Yusufali 24:48] When they are summoned to Allah and His messenger, in order that He may judge between them, behold some of them decline (to come).

وَإِنْ يَكُنْ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ يَأْتُوا إِلَيْهِ مُذْعِنِينَ {49}

[Yusufali 24:49] But if the right is on their side, they come to him with all submission.

أَفِي قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ أَمِ ارْتَابُوا أَمْ يَخَافُونَ أَنْ يَحِيفَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَرَسُولُهُ ۚ بَلْ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ {50

[Yusufali 24:50] Is it that there is a disease in their hearts? or do they doubt, or are they in fear, that Allah and His Messenger will deal unjustly with them? Nay, it is they themselves who do wrong.

[marwen]

Sister Zaria, if you are seeking for clowns, this video gives you a hint ;D


Main idea of the video : Baradi'i Says : "Whatever is the result of the referundum about the constitution, we will annul it" !

--> this contradicts even the democracy rules that he and his alike call for.

As a side note : This man, Baradi'i, is one of the responsibles of the destruction of Iraq and the prsence of US forces in Iraq.

[جوري]

some of the devils he has to deal with on daily basis:



He says this constitution is dangerous. It is going to lead to an Islamic state, it isn't going to give us a 'modern secular' state, we're not few, we're many, go out there and vote no, if you've relatives in upper Egypt call upon them to say NO, if you turned 18 in March you've a right to vote we must go out in numbers, we can't stay at home!
so now you know why they're fighting him.

:w:

[جوري]

attack on a sheikh, and for the first time since the old history of this mosque was Asr & maghrib prayers not offered. The elderly sheikh had his car torched and he was beaten and held hostage..
this is stuff you don't hear about, imagine if it had been the 'Islamists' trying to silence the opposition with this violence.. Hasbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel!
بالصور.. الاعتداء على الشيخ المحلاوي واحتجازه بالمسجد
الجمعة 14 ديسمبر 2012

مفكرة الاسلام: تشهد مدينة الإسكندرية شمال مصر، اشتباكات عنيفة بين المؤيدين والمعارضين لمشروع الدستور الجديد، بعد الاعتداء على الشيخ أحمد المحلاوي الداعية الشهير وتحطيم سيارته.
وكان الشيخ المحلاوى قد دعا المصلين إلى التصويت بنعم على مشروع الدستور الجديد، الذي سيبدأ صباح الغد، مما أثار حفيظة المعارضين له فقاموا بالاعتداء على الشيخ المسن بالألفاظ النابيه قبل أن يتطور إلى حد الاشتباك الأيدي، ثم قاموا بتحطيم سيارته واحتجازه داخل المسجد.
وانتقلت الاحتجاجات إلى خارج محيط المسجد ليسفر الأمر عن سقوط مصابين وانفجار سيارتين بعد احتراقهما.
وقال شاهد عيان: "رأيت 13 مصابا بجروح وكدمات سقطوا في الشوارع في منطقة محطة الرمل بمحيط مسجد القائد إبراهيم."
وأضاف أن الحجارة والزجاجات الفارغة والأسلحة البيضاء استخدمت في الاشتباكات التي تلت هتافات ضد مرسي وجماعة الإخوان المسلمين التي ينتمي إليها بعد أن دعا خطيب الجمعة الشيخ أحمد المحلاوي للتصويت بنعم على مشروع الدستور.
وتابع أن المعارضين أشعلوا النار في ثلاث سيارات ظنا منهم أنها استخدمت في نقل الحجارة والزجاجات الفارغة والأسلحة البيضاء، وفقا لشبكة سكاي نيوز عربية.
ودفعت مديرية أمن الإسكندرية بعدد كبير من جنود الأمن المركزي، لفض الاشتباكات، وحماية المسجد والشيخ المحلاوي المحتجز داخله.
لأول المرأة .. لم يرفع أذان العصر والمغرب بالمسجد
من جانبه، مراسل قناة النيل للأخبار إن 300 متظاهر احتشدوا أمام جامع القائد ابراهيم ولم يصلوا الجمعة وانتظروا حتى خرج المصلون وبدءوا بهتافات معادية للتيار الإسلامي واعتدوا بالحجارة على المصلين الخارجين من صلاة الجمعة.
وأكد المراسل أنه ولأول مرة في تاريخ مسجد القائد إبراهيم، الأشهر في مدينة الإسكندرية، لم يُرفع أذان العصر وكذلك أذان المغرب.
ولم تترشح حتى اللحظة أية أخبار بشأن فك الحصار عن المسجد من قبل "ميليشيات" وبلطجية جبهة الإنقاذ بزعامة البرادعي وصباحي وعمرو موسى، فيما يتحدث نشطاء على مواقع التواصل الاجتماعي عن مشاركة الشيوعيين كذلك في الأحداث؛ نظرًا لمعاداتهم للشيخ المحلاوي حيث كان قد هاجمهم في خطبة سابقة.

http://www.islammemo.cc/akhbar/arab/...14/160300.html

[Salahudeen]

I think Morsi is trying to introduce a gradual change and doesn't want to scare the people away from shari'a, I remember hearing that Ayesha RA said if the laws prohibiting alcohol were sent down in Makkah people wouldn't have been able to abide by them because their emaan was not ready for it, and that is why all the makkan surahs focus on belief in Allah and contain very little commandments compared to surahs reveled in Medinah.

I think its similar situation in Egypt, if Morsi makes drastic change overnight there will be uproar and people will not accept it straight away, also perhaps an opportunity for outside forces to intervene with the excuse to stop Egypt becoming an Islamist terrorist state that supports al qaida will arise with drastic overnight change.

So gradually implementing sharia bit by bit is Morsi's plan maybe, and he's trying to refrain from scaring the people with drastic changes.

[marwen]

He says this constitution is dangerous. It is going to lead to an Islamic state, it isn't going to give us a 'modern secular' state, we're not few, we're many, go out there and vote no, if you've relatives in upper Egypt call upon them to say NO, if you turned 18 in March you've a right to vote we must go out in numbers, we can't stay at home!
so now you know why they're fighting him.

So gradually implementing sharia bit by bit is Morsi's plan maybe, and he's trying to refrain from scaring the people with drastic changes.

What is going on in Egypt is the introduction of an Islamic legislation system through democracy. As long as every body adheres with democracy, especially those secular-state-dreamers, why they don't want to apply democracy and accept the results generated by a democratic process ? Or democracy is good untill it leads to a muslim majority. What were they thinking about , any form of democracy in a country where most of people are muslim will automatically lead to a muslim majority. As simple as that. That's why they want to make a mess and invalidate the referundum. Because democracy is not what they want, but rather a country free of islam, no matter what immoral and oppressive means they have to use.

As a muslim I'm not with democracy as a principle. Because I think it's denying the divine authority and the islamic laws.
But at this period of time where the implication of shariah is quasi-impossible, and using the available means such as democarcy will be beneficial to muslims to gradually apply shariah; at this time of humanity history where shariah is applied nowhere, and any hope of building an islamic society is to b encouraged, I want to see the results of this referundum that I think if they let them go without problems will certainly be beneficial for muslims. Because muslims largely outnumber these secular platoons who were implanted in the arab society by the enemies of islam, to vainly change it and pick off its islamic values.
I encourage muslims to support this constitution and ask Allah to help muslims in Egypt and everywhere to return to Islam.

[جوري]

They're being fought with force such force I feel sorry for mursi - I've never made du3a for any president before but have been making so much du3a for him and his wife how terrified that poor woman must feel!
The situation is no different than when people chose Hamas through a democratic process!
They don't actually in the west apply democracy and they sure as heck don't want to implement it in its unadulterated form in places such as Egypt because they know what the end result is!
So why create the 'save Egypt coalition' composed of lefties, atheists and secularists and proclaim that they represent the people and desire to overthrow a freely elected democratic president? When they represent no one in Egypt save themselves and the corrupt effete they represent!
Deep down inside they know the will of the people is the overwhelming majority and the overwhelming majority says Islam is the way!

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I've seen quite a few scholars support the referendum and consider it the lesser of the two evils; otherwise secularists will just take over, which will make it so much worse. I think we should pray for Egypt and its people, and hope things favour Islam there.

Here's a beautiful short nasheed by a Tunisian, who talks about religion, identity, secularism etc. He really puts the point across so well;

[Jedi_Mindset]

First i had some doubts in morsi which is a usual thing with me before trusting arab rulers, but i start to like him now, and need more convincing things that he surely is a genuine leader, what he said is perfectly right. There is no enforcement in shariah law.

There are some talks in the US to stop military aid, not that it matters anyway, the only thing they give to egypt is junk. The f-16's arent as advanced as the israeli ones. Which is the goal of the US ofcourse.

The current opposition in egypt is backed by the west, coptic christians and other arab rulers particular in the gulf states. Hopefully Egypt wont fall inta a civil war and certainly not what is happening in syria.

Egypt might fall into sanctions as this is a prophecy explained in sahih hadith. Iraq fell into sanctions got invaded, syria is currently, and gaza also(these are regions in as-sham) and after that egypt would be the next target.

Book 041, Number 6923:
Abu Hurairah (Radi Allahu anhu) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “Iraq would withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria would withhold its mudd and dinar and Egypt would withhold its irdab and dinar and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started, the bones and the flesh of Abu Hurairah (Radi Allahu anhu) would bear testimony to it.” [Muslim]

Book 041, Number 6961:
Abu Nadra (Radi Allahu anhu) reported: “We were in the company of Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Radi Allahu anhu) that he said it may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams (their measures of food stuff and their money). We said: Who would be responsible for it? He said: The non Arabs would prevent them. He again said: There is the possibility that the people of Syria may not send their dinar and mudd. We said: Who would be responsible for it? He said this prevention would be made by the Romans. He (Jabir b. Abdullah) kept quiet for a while and then reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said, 'There would be a caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it.' I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-'Ala: Do you mean 'Umar bin Abd al-Aziz? They said: No.” [Muslim]

commentary:

Mufti Saeed Khan believes that the sanctions on Iraq in the gulf war was foretold in the ahadith mentioned above; and now after 20 years sanctions on Syria (which started a few years ago and are ongoing) are what was prophesised in the ahadith. The final step will be sanctions on Eygpt, and after that very strict warning is there for the Muslims as the hadith tells us that “and you would recoil to that position from where you started.” So that might mean that Muslim countries (except for Arabia, from where Islam started) will be wiped out (i.e. they will come under the control of non Muslims such as Israel and others).

http://haroonbaloch.blogspot.nl/2011_06_01_archive.html

This is a possibility not that i predict or know the future, since only Allah knows best in these matters

[theplains]

No!
where do you come up with these questions?

I think of these questions and then I ask.

How did the process/custom of women wearing the hijab originate? Why don't men wear a hijab-equivalent?

Thanks,
Jim

[جوري]

Why don't men wear a hijab-equivalent?

what do you call this?

the custom of modesty has always been in existence and it is enforced in Islam.

best,

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum;

as some members have write, big changes is better to make slowly, not by one night. If Egyptians would really like to live in the Western style democracy, they should have right for this or if they would really want to live under pure islamic laws, they should have right to this too. But we need to remember one thing; they have lived decades under dictatorships. They - like all people in every corners of the world - need time to learn new style to think, behave, talk etc. It may takes years, even some generations.

Don´t wait too much too fast.

[Cabdullahi]

Salam alaykum;
If Egyptians would really like to live in the Western style democracy, they should have right for this or if they would really want to live under pure islamic laws, they should have right to this too.

Islamic law for Islamic countries and Western style democracy for western countries.

Anyone who wants either must pack their bags and move to the appropriate area...

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum;

So you say that islamic country should force people whose live in they area to follow islamic rule? Does it really please Allah if people do so because they have to or more if people do so because they want to (please Allah and follow teachings of islam).

And I repeat myself; don´t wait too big changes too fast. People have at the first learn new ways to think, behave etc. Not by the way that some sign a law.

It is like a teacher who would say to child: no need to teach you anything - you know how to read because I force you to know it.

^o)

[Insaanah]

So you say that islamic country should force people whose live in they area to follow islamic rule? Does it really please Allah if people do so because they have to or more if people do so because they want to (please Allah and follow teachings of islam).

When one takes the shahaadah, and bears witness that there is no God and nobody worthy of worship except Allah, and that Muhammad :saws: is the messenger of Allah, then by default you have to accept what comes with that, including obeying prophet in at least those commands which are compulsory (fard). We can't say we accept the shahaadah but would like the choice of whether we obey or not, and will obey when we're ready to and when we really want to.

Similarly, when you have an Islamic state, it is responsible for ensuring it's Muslim citizens abide by at least the compulsory laws of Islam. If there was a choice, then Abu Bakr :ra: would not have waged war against those who refused to pay zakat. And sins that are public, such as not wearing hijaab, which have a knock-on effect on society as a whole, have to be controlled, e.g. by religious reminders, beneficial lectures etc for starters.

If we have to follow the law of the land living in western countries, then Muslim citizens have to follow the law of the land living in Muslim countries too. That's not force or oppression if that's the law, but somehow people make it out to be if it's an Islamic law that's being referred to.

:ia: president Dr Mursi will use his wisdom in dealing with matters, and may Allah guide him and help him to all that pleases Him, ameen.

[GuestFellow]

what do you call this?

:sl:

A pretty boy. =)

[جوري]

A pretty boy. =)

Not sure how I am supposed to comment on that..

[Cabdullahi]

Im worried for brother Guestfellow...i really am.



lol

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

dear sister Insaanah; of course person who lives in some country needs to respect laws. I talked issue as why we please Allah and how (my English is not my own language I might can´t explain my ideas perfectly). Is Allah happy if our leader force us to use hijab? Is Allah happy if we do it by our own free will and respect to Allah?

I live and have lived all my life in non-islamic country and used hijab by my free will. Not because leader/goverment/party/husband or ever else would force me to do so. Allah wants.

Think now people live in Egypt; they have had three dictators (Mubarak, Assad, Nasser), before it was kingdom. The Egyptians live there now haven´t never taste so called freedom, islamic or what ever. It takes genarations they will learn to behave by new order, it doesn´t happen in one night and sign by laws.

Give them time, people! 50 years! 100 years!

[GuestFellow]

Salam alaykum
. Is Allah happy if our leader force us to use hijab? Is Allah happy if we do it by our own free will and respect to Allah?

:wa:

Are these supposed to be rhetorical questions?

Give them time, people! 50 years! 100 years!

I bet there will be new dictator by then. o_o Seriously America and its little chiwawa Israel will try to interfere. AGAIN. :/

[sister herb]

:wa:

Are these supposed to be rhetorical questions?

Salam alaykum

Of course they are as who could answer those questions?

Allah only.

[GuestFellow]

Salam alaykum

Of course they are as who could answer those questions?

Allah only.

:wa:

You'd be surprised. Some people act as though they speak on behalf of God. :skeleton:

[sister herb]

:wa:

You'd be surprised. Some people act as though they speak on behalf of God. :skeleton:

Salam alaykum

I know it...

I am not worry because of them but worry those whose afraid to tell they own opinions.

^o)

['Abd-al Latif]

I am not worry because of them but worry those whose afraid to tell they own opinions.

Well I'm lost as to what everyone's being doing so far...:?

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This isn't confirmed or anything.... but;

Ikhwanweb UPDATE: results from 2230/6376 Polling Stations counted: YES 65.6% NO 34.4%

[جوري]

http://www.elwatannews.com/map
interactive map by province .. you can see how it went and who they voted for in the presidential elections..

btw. this forum doesn't work on firefox even after clearing cache.. has this happened to anyone else?

:w:

[theplains]

the custom of modesty has always been in existence and it is enforced in Islam.

best,

Thank you for the picture.

What specifically would make this gentleman immodest if he removed the hijab?

Jim

[جوري]

What specifically would make this gentleman immodest if he removed the hijab?

A man's dress code is different from a woman's dress code. I believe even by skimpy western standards men don't have to don a two piece although in my humble opinion with their rotund habitus they should be covered from head to toe.
let me ask you a better question. Why the obsession with Muslim women dress code? Should you not be concerned with your own women and your own men?

best,

[Mustafa2012]

Thank you for the picture.

What specifically would make this gentleman immodest if he removed the hijab?

Jim

To understand why she posted the picture you really need to read the whole thread.

It was in response to a person who asked why do only women need to cover their head in Islam.

Modesty has lost its significance and importance in many faiths these days.

If you look back 50-60 years ago many Christian women would cover their heads as well out of modesty and men would wear hats.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

I don´t think it is very strange that religious people cover they head/hair - also jews do same.

[Tyrion]

Thank you for the picture.

What specifically would make this gentleman immodest if he removed the hijab?

If you're referring to that picture of the rather feminine looking Arab guy, you should know that what he was wearing isn't really considered "Muslim clothing". Such a thing doesn't really exist, though you'll find some people confusing Arab clothing with Islamic clothing. There is no real equivalent head wear for men that resembles the hijab, but many wear caps or turbans to achieve a similar religious/"modest" look. I'm not entirely sure why she posted that picture in a thread about hijab, unless she's trying to strengthen her own position using your ignorance of Islam/Mid-East fashion...

[Cabdullahi]

If you're referring to that picture of the rather feminine looking Arab guy, you should know that what he was wearing isn't really considered "Muslim clothing". Such a thing doesn't really exist, though you'll find some people confusing Arab clothing with Islamic clothing. There is no real equivalent head wear for men that resembles the hijab, but many wear caps or turbans to achieve a similar religious/"modest" look. I'm not entirely sure why she posted that picture in a thread about hijab, unless she's trying to strengthen her own position using your ignorance of Islam/Mid-East fashion...

Did the prophet sport a turban back in the days, Mr Tyrone? I read that yusuf (as) wore a male equivalent of the niqab to avoid being stopped and marveled at. Muslim clothing is anything that is modest and the best form of modest clothing is what the muslims who live in muslim countries wear because it covers the awra when they bend over to prostrate...unlike western clothing which reveals the big ol what you call it, it's kinda scary..you know what i mean.

[GuestFellow]

If you're referring to that picture of the rather feminine looking Arab guy, you should know that what he was wearing isn't really considered "Muslim clothing". Such a thing doesn't really exist, though you'll find some people confusing Arab clothing with Islamic clothing. There is no real equivalent head wear for men that resembles the hijab, but many wear caps or turbans to achieve a similar religious/"modest" look. I'm not entirely sure why she posted that picture in a thread about hijab, unless she's trying to strengthen her own position using your ignorance of Islam/Mid-East fashion...

:sl:

He's prince Hamdan. I haven't come across any requirement for Muslim men to cover their hair. All I hear is that they should cover the bodies and not reveal their shape...lol. :/

Muslim men can always wear an ordinary cap...if they think if it is a requirement.

[جوري]

If you're referring to that picture of the rather feminine looking Arab guy,

I am glad you're a masculine looking Afghani boy!

you should know that what he was wearing isn't really considered "Muslim clothing".

Who said anything about this being 'Muslim clothing'? he asked if there's a male equivalent and I showed that one does indeed exist- I didn't say it was 'Muslim clothing'

I'm not entirely sure why she posted that picture in a thread about hijab, unless she's trying to strengthen her own position using your ignorance of Islam/Mid-East fashion...

What you don't know could fill compendiums indeed!

best,

[جوري]

, it's kinda scary..you know what i mean.

In his particular case if he has got it he should flaunt it!

:w:

[GuestFellow]

I am glad you're a masculine looking Afghani boy!

:wa:

I actually thought the picture of Prince Hamdan looked very model like. It looks like someone got a rolling pin and smoothed his skin out. Ah...umm what the current situation in Egypt now with regards to the Hijab? Also wasn't their a ban on the Niqaab when the Mubarak was in power?

[جوري]

:wa:

I actually thought the picture of Prince Hamdan looked very model like. It looks like someone got a rolling pin and smoothed his skin out. Ah...umm what the current situation in Egypt now with regards to the Hijab? Also wasn't their a ban on the Niqaab when the Mubarak was in power?

I had to google Hamdan- God I can't stand UAE and its effete - it has become a cesspool to all the despots and it unfortunate how they squander the money of Muslims.. I actually took the first picture that came up when I put keffyia in Arabic but we digress, the situation in Egypt has always been the same, have you ever been there? 90% of the people there are covered even the non-Muslims when they come if they're humble and good and really want to immerse in the culture cover their heads or wear something modest. Yes the previous guy had nude beaches which were exclusive only to non-Muslims and I suppose him & his clan although I can't imagine any of them would want to go commando, and I don't believe that has changed because some people feel that the country's economy is tied to tourism which is sad.. as I said before a country that doesn't make its own weapons and plant its own food, is going to be the subject of a country that can do both those things. Also I am trying to keep an optimistic demeanor but there's so much corruption & evil there that I honestly think they need a Syria like situation to wake up!

that should give a clue..
:w:

[islamica]

http://www.elwatannews.com/map
interactive map by province .. you can see how it went and who they voted for in the presidential elections..

btw. this forum doesn't work on firefox even after clearing cache.. has this happened to anyone else?


:w:

works fine in firefox, although it's all in arabic.

[Cabdullahi]

:sl:

Muslim men...the bodies and not reveal their shape...lol. :/

Muslim men can always wear an ordinary cap...if they think if it is a requirement.

Prince Hamdan looked very model like.

smoothed his skin out. Ah...

I'm worried for you brother guestfellow...i really am

[Tyrion]

I am glad you're a masculine looking Afghani boy!

Strapping, if I do say so myself. Don't let it please you too much though, I might start to feel uncomfortable...

[جوري]

Strapping, if I do say so myself. Don't let it please you too much though, I might start to feel uncomfortable...

You need all the strapping you can get, not much else is going for you.

best,

[جوري]

قادرة على اختراق الدفاعات الإسرائيلية.. صفقة صواريخ مصرية كورية ضد (إسرائيل)
2012-12-17 --- 4/2/1434

---

المختصر / قالت وكالة " وورلد نت ديلي " الإخبارية الأمريكية أن مسئولين بالاستخبارات الأمريكية علموا أن كوريا الشمالية سوف تبيع لمصر صفقة من أجزاء صواريخ سكود على الرغم من عقوبات الأمم المتحدة، موضحة أن هذه الشحنة تعد الأولى من نوعها في سياق التعامل المصري الكوري في ظل حكومة الدكتور "محمد مرسي" الجديد.
وأشارت الوكالة الإخبارية أن البيت الأبيض لم يرد على طلبها بالرد على هذا الخبر، وقال محلل سابق بوزارة الدفاع الأمريكية طلب عدم ذكر اسمه أن كوريا الشمالية أمدت مصر بصواريخ سكود عبر الصين لسنوات عديدة، لذلك لا تعد تلك الصفقة فريدة من نوعها.
وعلق "ريتشارد فيشر" زميل المركز الدولي للتقييم والإستراتيجية، على خبر يدعي إبرام صفقة أسلحة بين كوريا الشمالية ومصر ستتزود صواريخ سكود، قائلاً: "هذا يجعلنا نشعر أن المصريين يريدون مهاجمة (إسرائيل)".
ويرى فيشر أن اقتناء مصر لهذه الأجزاء يعد علامة أنها تسعى لتطوير نظام التسليح المصري وهذا بلا شك خبر سيء لـ(إسرائيل)، مؤكدًا أن دخول هذه الشحنة لمصر يصبح منطقياً لو أرادوا به الهجوم على (إسرائيل)، مشيراً إلى أن "هذه الصواريخ قادرة على اختراق نظام الدفاع الجوي الإسرائيلي".
وأكد فيشر على أن صفقة الأسلحة هذه أمر جيد بالنسبة لحكومة الإخوان المسلمين بمصر؛ لأن هذه الصواريخ قد يتم التحكم فيها بواسطة قوات محددة، وهذا يعني أنه بالرغم من المشكلات السياسية التي يواجهها الرئيس مرسي في مصر فإن هذه الصواريخ يمكن التحكم فيها بواسطة قوات تدين بالولاء لحكومة الإخوان المسلمين.
وأشار فيشر إلى أن امتلاك مصر لهذه الأسلحة قد يدل على تحول في الجيش المصري, كما يبدو كذلك أن الإخوان في طريقهم إلى إيجاد قواتهم الخاصة بهم لإقامة قيادتهم الموحدة, والتي ستنمو وتهيمن على الحكم القائم الذي يدين ببعض الولاء للغرب.
ويعتقد فيشر أن الجيش المصري يبدو متردداً في الهجوم على (إسرائيل) بسبب نتائج الحملات الأخيرة ضد (إسرائيل), لذلك فإن وجود قوة تدين بالولاء الكامل لمرسى لما تردد لحظة في ذلك.
ولكن المحلل السابق رفض هذا الأمر، مؤكدًا أن الجيش المصري لن يقبل بالسيطرة على الترسانة الصاروخية، موضحًا أن من مصلحة الجيش المحافظة على الأمن الذي يعد العمود الفقري لاتفاقية السلام مع (إسرائيل).
وضرب المحلل مثالاً على ذلك بمباحثات وقف إطلاق النار الأخيرة بين (إسرائيل) وحماس التي توسطت فيها مصر، موضحاً أن دور مصر فيها كان دليلا على أنها لا تحمل نوايا عدوانية تجاه (إسرائيل).
وأشار المحلل أن الجيش والمخابرات المصرية كانت القناة بين الطرفين، وأن الرئيس مرسي لم يتحدث بشكل مباشر مع (إسرائيل)، وهذا الطريق هو المتخذ منذ أن انتخاب الرئيس مرسي.
المصدر: فلسطين اليوم
http://www.almokhtsar.com/node/95765

the gist is, new deal between Egypt and Korea has israel and the U.S seething, Israel is threatening that it means Egypt wants war with israel and the U.S is trying to intervene against the deal!

[theplains]

A man's dress code is different from a woman's dress code. I believe even by skimpy western standards men don't have to don a two piece although in my humble opinion with their rotund habitus they should be covered from head to toe.
let me ask you a better question. Why the obsession with Muslim women dress code? Should you not be concerned with your own women and your own men?

best,

Hello,

Yes. Thanks. I understand the dress codes are different. You provided the picture of a man so
my question to you was about that man. So what specifically would make this gentleman immodest
if he removed his head covering?

Jim

[جوري]

Hello,

Yes. Thanks. I understand the dress codes are different. You provided the picture of a man so
my question to you was about that man. So what specifically would make this gentleman immodest
if he removed his head covering?

Jim

Indeed, I posted the pic of the 'man' on the account you asked for a male equivalent (no more no less)- Yes some men prefer to wear head covers, hats, loose clothing etc. It isn't an injunction. If you desire to know what is or isn't allowed in Islamic attire, may I suggest you start a thread and argue all the trifles to your heart's content there!

I didn't answer the Q otherwise because it was a non-Q and didn't follow from the original premise!

best,

[جوري]

64% YES after the two week combination :alhamd: last week was 56% this time was 70% or so, the total now is 64% so anyone under pretense that Egypt is split or the Constitution represents only the 'brotherhood' is sorely mistaken..
we now have to worry about the parliament and the tricks of the liberals, especially that they've had an appeal to one of the people who killed a Muslim kid and dumped his body free last week, as well Mubarak and his cronies are also applying for an appeal. I pray to God it will be denied.. but the case is, if evil people aren't killed they go on committing evil!

[Abu-Abdillah]

I hope that this question does not in anyway upset anyone... I just don't understand. I am here in Egypt, and I have never heard through anything official, that states that Hijaab is something that will be forced on the women here. I hear many of the opposition to the elected government saying this. But also I hear the official response is that of a strong denial to the fact that this is their intention.

I am not speaking in support or rejection of this principle. I just want to know is there anything concrete that says that this really is the intent. I am asking this for personal knowledge. Barak Allahu feekum.

May Allah guide all of the Islamic leaders to that which will cause the Muslim world to obtain the good in both this world as well as the here-after... Allahuma ameen

[Sethi]

I just want to know is there anything concrete that says that this really is the intent.

Based on the video in the original post, Mursi does not intend to require the Hijaab by law. I suspect that the opposition is saying this, because they fear and want to spread fear about what rule by the Islamic majority will mean.

[جوري]

Here's what the opposition has been saying:


مش عايزين الدستور علشان اللى عملوه ضد الهولوكوست.
http://www.elhasad.com/2012/11/blog-post_6604.html -
ويقول للانجليز:
مش عايزين الدستور علشان احنا ضد المشروع الإسلامى.
http://www.elhasad.com/2012/12/blog-post_4141.html

ويقول للأمريكان:
مش عايزين الدستور علشان عايزين مصر دولة علمانية.
بالفيديو
http://www.elhasad.com/2012/12/blog-post_498.html

ويقول للمصريين:
احنا مش عايزين الدستور علشان عايزين الشريعة.
بالفيديو
http://www.elhasad.com/2012/12/blog-post_2736.html

well actually this is just one moron from the group of morons.

We don't want the constitution because it is against the 'Holocaust' not sure in what sense though.-, then to the Brits he says we don't want it because we're against Islamism , then he says to the Americans we don't want it because we want a secular country, then he says to the Egyptians we don't want it because we don't want sharia.. so yeah, I mean they've been quite consistent with their smear campaign truly no different than any Islamophobic westerner.. the part that amuses me though is how they go by Muslim names..


best,

[marwen]

^ lol, Sometimes I wish stupidity were lethal, at least it would relieve us from these idiots who spread their nonsense.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Yes, there's no doubt western powers are trying to create a base of support to push through ideologies that they approve of. They are heavily backing the secular liberals among many others. (eg. UK is using the British Council as a cover to further its interests).

Media coverage was poor (to be expected), opposition are given lavish coverage, yet I barely saw any coverage given to the Muslim Brotherhoods point of view.

Not to mention that the vote was 'politely' trashed before it even got started.

Having said that this is an important milestone in the battle for Egypt's soul, however there is a very very long way to go. The secular liberals wont stop and will continue to undermine the constitutional settlement, and if that doesn't work they might try to undermine the economy to ensure 'good behaviour' from President Morsi.

Building Egypt up from the ground up will be tough, but Insha'Allah you will do it.

Thought this was an interesting editorial from the (secular-liberal) Guardian.



Egypt: building on sand

The irony of having won this particular constitutional battle is that Morsi has emerged from it with weaker powers


Not all founding fathers are as fondly remembered as America's. The three men who carved up the Soviet Union in Stalin's hunting lodge in Belovezhskaya forest are not today revered as scions of a new order. Egypt's constitution, which appeared to have been passed on Sunday by 64%, has also had a turbulent birth. The result itself came from a low turnout and there were claims of election fraud. The crisis started when Egypt's Islamist president, Mohammed Morsi, awarded himself the power to push through a draft that had not been agreed, prompting a stream of resignations. He said it was to stop the constitutional court from declaring the whole exercise null and void, but the judiciary revolted as a result. Clashes between rival armed groups ensued: up to 2 million Christians voted against the referendum and some leaders called for the president's removal. If this is a victory, it has been a costly one. The revolutionary unity seen fleetingly in Tahrir Square has been shattered.

Mr Morsi was accused of behaving like a military dictator, but the irony of having won this particular constitutional battle is that he has emerged from it with weaker powers. Under the terms of the new constitution, he cannot interfere with any judicial appointment but only sign the names offered to him by the supreme judicial council. His legislative powers revert to the upper house of parliament, the Shura council, pending the elections of the lower house. This is loaded in favour of the Islamists and Mr Morsi will struggle to make it more representative even by nominating more members of the Coptic orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches to it, as he did on Sunday. But he has promised to put amendments to the controversial articles of the constitution to the first session of parliament, if agreement can be reached between the major political parties.

In his wish to speedily install a new order, Mr Morsi cut corners, at times dangerously. His emergency decree overriding all judicial oversight was cast much too wide. Verbal violence soon became physical after a tent encampment outside the presidential palace was broken up violently. The opposition claimed they were beaten, detained and tortured. The Muslim Brotherhood insist they were shot at hours later. These scenes were a disaster for a president who has vowed to represent not just Islamist Egypt but all Egypt.

The polarisation is not likely to lessen with these results. Despite the low turnout, the Brotherhood will claim 64% as a decisive victory. Mr Morsi has seen his vote go up in some areas of the country that voted for his rival Mr Ahmed Shafiq in the presidential election. For the secularist and liberal opposition, and many outside observers, the most telling statistic was the low turnout. It means the grand foundational text of the new Egypt is only actively supported by about one in five of the electorate. The decision of Egypt's Coptic church to call for a no vote, at a time when the imams held back, is a sign of deep tensions. After such a decision, it becomes easier to characterise the polarisation as a religious one. Such a result might add weight to the view that the conflict was not about an Islamist constitution, but about two very different visions of society: a defined identity-based project to see a more Islamised Egypt; and a more pluralist vision of a democracy, with multiple identities. But the problem is also a practical one. No one behaved as if they wanted to build a pluralist society. The art of compromise was not much in evidence. Mr Morsi started out with the intention of creating a broad tent involving minorities – but that approach also depended on the ability to keep everyone inside that tent. The last few months have made that increasingly difficult. The one hope is that this result encourages both side to fight the parliamentary elections .

President Morsi's task is now clear. It is not to entrench the divide but to reach across it to all Egyptians, Christian or Muslim, secular or religious, liberal or conservative. Mr Morsi will have only established a constitution worthy of the name when that happens.

http://www.guardian.co.uk

[جوري]

^ lol, Sometimes I wish stupidity were lethal, at least it would relieve us from these idiots who spread their nonsense.

The fact that they call them political figures at all leaves me in awe? I mean they keep toting 'democracy' yet have no understanding of the meaning of it- People obviously have already voted for those elected to represent them which means those losers need to step aside not act as if they own the scene and then keep calling on western powers to cause a coup in a sovereign nation.. funny stuff!

[جوري]

The crisis started when Egypt's Islamist president, Mohammed Morsi, awarded himself the power to push through a draft that had not been agreed, prompting a stream of resignations.

I can tell you right there that this is incorrect information. Western perpetuated just like the crap on the satellite TV's that is perpetuated in Egypt, more suitable for tabloids than news. In fact all had agreed and SIGNED on the constitutions including representatives of the three churches of Egypt, the only one who didn't sign his name was Amr Musa, whom no one gives a fig for anyway!
Secondly Mursi didn't give himself unprecedented powers nothing that the Americans and French haven't done before, not only was it temporary but necessary given the non-guilty verdict that was passed to those responsible for the death and injury of thousands in Tahrir square.. Also, as I have already stated and don't care to repeat earlier posts that just like the constitutional court (Alma7kama Adstouria) dissolved the freely elected parliament they were about to dissolve the office of the presidency so his move came in the correct time. the constitutional court in totality were hand picked goons for the old regime, any newly elected president has the right to choose his cabinets, be that as it may those 'judges' in that ma7kama distouria some of them barely have a high school degree, and they'd staged a chavez style coup to a T were it not for those martyred the night they went to save it7adyah palace.. and meanwhile actual judges from 2002 are probably sitting on a donkey selling fava beans. But that's not the issue, the issue is that Mursi is d@mned if he does and d@mned if he doesn't..
When he exercises his powers as a president he's declared a pharaoh and treasonous agents call on foreign troops and powers to pressure him economically, politically etc. The sick SOB El-Baradi who by all means is an agent and responsible for the death of 1.5 million Iraqis, has been going all around Europe and the U.S please see my earlier post spreading good cheer, now there are those who are imposing economic sanctions and others who will not return Egypt its due debt from the stolen money which the removed now in prison soon to appeal former admin has put in foreign banks..

Please I urge you to stop getting your news from the Guardian UK or any western paper in general. Not only have they no touch with reality whatsoever, not only will they deny you basic information that complete the picture of why some decisions are taken, but they will frankly lie to you to form public opinion to the fundi/ziono agenda of the west!

pls. also see my thread on the so-called coptic minority of Egypt and the massive lands they've stolen while crying to the west they're being discrminated against!

:w:

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Thanks for the response, its hard to get info about whats really going on.

Found this, thought this was an interesting analysis of whats going on, not sure how much of it is correct though :ooh:

[CosmicPathos]

^^ you think youll find true and correct analysis on that ****-box tv? lol

[Cabdullahi]

RT = Never speaks bad about russia, syria or Iran...never talks about the atrocities done by russia to the muslims in the Caucasus..etc
Press TV = Never speaks bad about russia, syria or Iran(for Obvious reason)
Aljazeera = never talks bad about the qatari's

and the rest of the garbage CNNABCBBCFOX

Agenda based Information

[جوري]

Salaam

Thanks for the response, its hard to get info about whats really going on.

Found this, thought this was an interesting analysis of whats going on, not sure how much of it is correct though

:wa:

The opposition is not only very poorly organized, is spearheaded by unpopular and unconditioned rejects who in the eyes of many are treasonous but even amongst themselves are divided, and I believe that Shafeeq who ran away to Emirates to avoid thirty some charges is working to unite. People in Egypt are 'Islamists' even if they don't fall under the banner of 'Salafi' or 'brotherhood' - Liberalism/ secularism/ Hedonism hasn't much appeal for the common man there!

:w: