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Big Ragu
01-06-2013, 03:54 AM
The Muslims of the western world expect and demand equality and tolerance from the inhabitants of those countries yet Muslims themselves ruthless oppress minorities in Islamic countries. Infact in countries like Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia the worst three there are laws in place to prevent religious freedom.

Perhaps the Muslim community of the Western World should be just as vocal in their condemnation of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries that prevent religious minorities there to worship freely as they are in their demand for religious tolerance in the Western World. Why should Muslims in the western world be forced to extend to Muslims the rights and privileges that are denied to Non-Muslims in Muslim countries?

I guess that is the price that the western world pays for being civilized, It would be unfair to hold third world Islamic countries with corrupt leaders, illiterate masses and a lack of national identity to the same moral standards as liberal, democratic states where all citizens are equal.

Why were these Muslims who were protesting in the streets against "the Innocence of Muslims" not protesting in streets against the oppression of non-Muslims in Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, To demand equality in the western world and at the same time deny it to others in the Muslim world is to be either duplicitous or malicious. I ask why this "hypocrisy of Muslims"?
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Roasted Cashew
01-06-2013, 01:28 PM
I agree with all your points...but you see, Muslim countries you mentioned don't openly claim that they are the best places to live in for minorities, they don't yell out and claim that they are the best of democracies, they don't have full blown freedom of speech clause in their constitutions.., etc. But yea, Muslims coming from this Muslim countries should not behave hypocritically..
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GuestFellow
01-06-2013, 02:35 PM
I think some Muslims cannot prioritise. They are more concerned about a silly video than compared to other more serious issues.

As for some western countries, their laws promote religious freedom and human rights. So when they deny these rights to Muslims, they are seen as hypocrites.

So everyone can be a hypocrite. o_o
Reply

جوري
01-06-2013, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
oppress minorities in Islamic countries
Here's a man who converted to Islam in Egypt- The church confiscated his property and taken away his children- I often wonder if you have ever lived in one of those so-called 'Muslim countries' to see just how the minorities are treated?
بعد إسلامه.. مدير "الخانكة" يكشف فظائع داخل الكنائس والأديرة
Saturday 05 January 2013




مفكرة الاسلام: صرح ممدوح حنا وهبة، مدير مستشفى الخانكة في مصر، والذى أشهر إسلامه، بأن هناك ظروفًا اجتماعية ودينية خاصة به دفعته لترك المسيحية واعتناق الإسلام، دون أن يفكر لحظة واحدة فى المصاعب التى ستواجهه، وفى مقدمتها حرمانه من أبنائه، ونبذه من المجتمع المسيحى.
وقال وهبة إنه ذهب للأزهر بإرادته ليشهر إسلامه، ويصبح اسمه أحمد محمد أحمد مصطفى، فيما اعتبرت الكنيسة تصريحاته "افتراءات لا تستحق الرد".
وأضاف: "أنا أبلغ من العمر 63 عاما، ومتزوج ولدىَّ 4 أبناء، وأنا رجل ليبرالى حر، ومع ذلك كنت أتلقى أوامر الكنيسة وأنفذها دون مناقشة، وبمرور الوقت لاحظت أن قيادات الدين المسيحى لا تهتم إلا ببعض الطقوس، غير الواردة بالمرة فى الإنجيل، فسألت نفسى: إلى أين تقودنا تلك الطقوس؟ وإلى متى سيظل تسلط قيادات الكنيسة على الأقباط؟".
وأردف وهبة الذي أصبح اسمه أحمد: "المدنيون داخل الكنائس حولهم شبهات وفساد، وقد فوجئت بمباركة قيادات الكنائس لأفعالهم، حتى الأديرة المنوط بها تقويم سلوك الأقباط، وتعليمهم مبادئ وتقاليد الدين المسيحى انحرفت بصورة كبيرة عن هذا الهدف، وتحولت لمراكز تجارية تربح ملايين الجنيهات شهرياً، ولا نعرف أين تذهب هذه الملايين؟".
واتهم مدير مستشفى الخانكة في مصر شخصيات قبطية معينة داخل مصر بتلقى ملايين الجنيهات من أقباط المهجر مقابل إفشال محاولات درء الفتنة.
وقال وفق صحيفة "الوطن": "الكنائس والأديرة داخلها مجموعات وميليشيات مدربة، أنشأها البابا شنودة -فى البداية- لحفظ النظام داخل الكنائس، ثم تطور الأمر، وأصبحت تستخدم لإرهاب المعارضين من الأقباط، وهى التى اعتدت بالضرب على مجموعة "أقباط 38"، وتستخدم الكلاب الشرسة لتعذيب المعارضين".





http://www.islammemo.cc/akhbar/arab/...05/161877.html

They also use rabid dogs the likes they used in Guantanamo on them to torture them!

Here's the amount of stolen property the church has taken in Egypt:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...olen-land.html

the stolen lands are all there in picture and size and compared to such structures as the Vatican and Makkah for far exceeding them.. and this story repeats all over the so-called 'Muslim world'-
In France they take Muslim babies from their mothers by force if they're born poor, this is a story that is relayed to us by Muslims there and not the sort you hear on the news and well their record is already stellar on how they treat Muslims as is.
The list goes on and on.. I am at a loss to your comments really!
Question is where do you get your information & knowledge from?

best,
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Signor
01-06-2013, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
Question is where do you get your information & knowledge from?
A Zillion Dollar Question

I echoed this query,couple of threads with same attitude,whats your source?
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Pygoscelis
01-07-2013, 03:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Perhaps the Muslim community of the Western World should be just as vocal in their condemnation of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries that prevent religious minorities there to worship freely as they are in their demand for religious tolerance in the Western World. Why should Muslims in the western world be forced to extend to Muslims the rights and privileges that are denied to Non-Muslims in Muslim countries?
Because these western countries are not theocracies. If they talk the talk of equality and fairness, they should walk the walk. If a dictatorship, kingdom, or theocracy admits or proclaims itself such, there may be some humanitarian concerns, but there is not such stark hypocracy as when a state like France claims to have equal and fair treatment to all, and then targets a single group without good secular reason.
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جوري
01-07-2013, 03:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Because these western countries are not theocracies.
I can think of two errors with that statement.
1- is the faulty belief that western societies are 'fair' or not 'hypocritical' when in fact we can put a laundry list of otherwise.(and it isn't exclusive to France)
2- Is the faulty belief and this one in spite of what you possess of knowledge that should have at least been acquired by virtue of the number of years you've been with us on board that there's no such a thing as a theocratic society unless you're speaking of the Vatican but as far as Islamic societies are concerned, whether or not they implement Islamic laws which none of them do that such a law isn't theocratic and I am sure you can superimpose what it is on the definition of the term to validate that observation!

best,
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crimsontide06
01-07-2013, 04:21 AM
There are hypocrites in every nation, religion, culture....everywhere. To call out a particular group is crazy, might as well call out all of man kind.
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Pygoscelis
01-07-2013, 05:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
1- is the faulty belief that western societies are 'fair' or not 'hypocritical'
I said they claim to be fair and equal and are hypocritical when they are not. Theocracies, Kingdoms, and Dictatorships don't make the claim, so we can't accuse them of the same hypocracy.
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جوري
01-07-2013, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I said they claim to be fair and equal and are hypocritical when they are not. Theocracies, Kingdoms, and Dictatorships don't make the claim, so we can't accuse them of the same hypocracy.
They claim whatever the west has been telling them to claim to stay on the throne hence all the revolts.. Try international news. Indeed they all believe they're just and kind and fair. I resent however linking Islam to western imposed and instated systems be they in the west or overseas.
What bothers me immensely is when folks say enough, we want an Islamic khalifate- all hell breaks loose. Folks get post on American's 'Terrorism list' such as happened recently with a party from the free army in Syria.. Of course Mercenaries from Iran/Russia are already there doing their thing and the U.S and this side of the pond are just hoping they'd burn each other out without them going in to establish another Iraq- Luckily the Iraqis too have awakened now!
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جوري
01-07-2013, 04:08 PM
When the British invaded Egypt, they closed down all the cotton factories, everything had to come from England at the prices they desired using Egypt's raw goods, when the German fleet surrounded Egyptian waters during WWII, of course they reopened those factories again only to serve their own needs. They would pay farmers 3 schillings an egg when its price should be 1/100th of that so that they'd eat and the people starve.
One time school children in Port Said made a plane model and the British Education Minister who was overseeing what the Egyptians should produce or make closed down the school his name was Danlub I believe and fired the principal. I have had grandparents and parents living under these conditions telling us of the benevolence of these so-called 'democratic, just, free' invaders and by the way they haven't changed- they simply don't have to post their sick vile disgusting agenda to you.. we can write volumes on this stuff- which really amuses me as far as threads such as these are concerned.
Probably posted by folks who've never opened a history book in their entire lives and are born on trees for no family is there to guide them!
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Abdul Fattah
01-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Aselam aleykum
I agree with opening post 100%
Unfortunatly, when those of us who do stand up and argue that non-muslims should be treated with respect all the same, most tend not to listen. Sometimes I've even been called traitor, and somebody who loves the kafir more then Muslims. As if a muslim should always take the side of the other muslims, even if they are the oppressors. Apperently this us-vs.-them mentallity is so deeply rooted that the few lone souls rising against it seem to be nothing more than a drop of water on a searing hot plate.
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جوري
01-07-2013, 06:40 PM
Who created the us vs. them mentality?
Maybe name calling isn't the best method to go about describing how some feel about your personal convictions but that is basically what those convictions are Watched on the news, ingrained in the mind from people who have already grown in a particular culture, opinions become formed by active creation without any basis in reality!

Traveling might be good for more than just the soul to some of the members here!

best,
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Abz2000
01-07-2013, 07:08 PM
Lol same in bd, they even bombed textile factories and mills,
Then they posted corrupt sellouts as "government" who would collect land taxes etc for them and corruption hasbeen the status quo since, amazing how every country they invade upto this day breaks it's record and reaches to within top 20 on the corruption index.

And btw, Islam is what it is, it doesn't pretend to support idolatry along with every mish mash and slyly try to cut anything it doesn't agree with at the roots, it is clear and available for everyone to study, while with the so called civilized - actually degenerating - west, the whole system is based on deceit, they'll tell lie after lie and then chop and change politicians when one totally loses credibility, they'll pretend to give people freedom of speech while actually collecting databases and using provacateurs to infiltrate and cause chaos which they'll use to gain public opinion, and use the media as a tool for controlling the minds of the masses, they'll also give them the option to "vote" and even encourage it, (despite the fact they'll break every promise they make of importance) because they know that freedom of speech or the freedom to "vote" aren't very scary when they've taken away people's ability and freedom to think for themselves.
How do you think such a small country controlled almost half the world?
As they say: not by strength, by guile.
Only people who have fallen into their harrassment campaigns know that freedom of speech is a sort of legal term, but definitely not a complete reality on the ground.

I remember the words of the pigs who arrested babar Ahmed for running a mujahideen website which actually interviewed people from the field and gave info and facts that were alternative to what the western media (who usually get their war news from the governments' propaganda briefings) presented.
They kicked and punched him till he was bleeding from the urine, ears and nose, then put him in the position of prostration and said: where is your god now?
When they found he hadn't done anything illegal, they had to let him go, and when he made them pay compensation, they use a flimsy "u.s server hosting" excuse to exact revenge.
It seems he wasn't a "terrorist" when he was actually on the field and supporting the Chechen rebel fighters, but was a "terrorist" when he was running a news website giving the public actual footage from the ground, and full translations of full statements (usually cropped, warped and hideously taken out of context by the mass media). Was it because the u.s and british governments had fulfilled their purpose of neutralising Russia before they began their conquest, but once they invaded afghanistan, he suddenly became a "threat".
Hmmm maybe freedom of speech means fighting against and shooting and writing against and exposing war crimes of Russian soldiers, but freedom of speech doesn't mean exposing war crimes of u.s and british soldiers and governments.

Lol talk about the right to be conscious and informed before you vote!
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'Abd-al Latif
01-07-2013, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
The Muslims of the western world expect and demand equality and tolerance from the inhabitants of those countries yet Muslims themselves ruthless oppress minorities in Islamic countries. Infact in countries like Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia the worst three there are laws in place to prevent religious freedom.

Perhaps the Muslim community of the Western World should be just as vocal in their condemnation of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries that prevent religious minorities there to worship freely as they are in their demand for religious tolerance in the Western World. Why should Muslims in the western world be forced to extend to Muslims the rights and privileges that are denied to Non-Muslims in Muslim countries?

I guess that is the price that the western world pays for being civilized, It would be unfair to hold third world Islamic countries with corrupt leaders, illiterate masses and a lack of national identity to the same moral standards as liberal, democratic states where all citizens are equal.

Why were these Muslims who were protesting in the streets against "the Innocence of Muslims" not protesting in streets against the oppression of non-Muslims in Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, To demand equality in the western world and at the same time deny it to others in the Muslim world is to be either duplicitous or malicious. I ask why this "hypocrisy of Muslims"?
According to who? The western media that hardly gives Muslims any positive time in the spotlight or have you actually lived in a Muslim country to be so certain of this?
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Pygoscelis
01-08-2013, 05:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
Who created the us vs. them mentality?
Them? LOL

Seriously though, the Us vs Them mentality, tribalism, that thing you oh so hate me talking about here, is a basic tendency of human nature. It is the result of millions of years of evolution, or God's design, take your pick. It can be found on all "sides" of all issues and we should be ever watchful for it happening in ourselves. It isn't something that was "created" by one "side" or the other.
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Abz2000
01-08-2013, 06:47 AM
Ironic title
Bear in mind that in the Islamic context, Munafiq refers to one who pretends to be Muslim in public while harbouring hatred and enmity towards God and His Messenger.

Amusing how one personality made the thread and some similar personalities immediately chimed in......


وَيُعَذِّبَ المُنٰفِقينَ وَالمُنٰفِقٰتِ وَالمُشرِكينَ وَالمُشرِكٰتِ الظّانّينَ بِاللَّهِ ظَنَّ السَّوءِ ۚ عَلَيهِم دائِرَةُ السَّوءِ ۖ وَغَضِبَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم وَلَعَنَهُم وَأَعَدَّ لَهُم جَهَنَّمَ ۖ وَساءَت مَصيرًا


And that He may punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Pagans men and women, who imagine an evil opinion of Allah.
On them is a round of Evil: the Wrath of Allah is on them: He has cursed them and got Hell ready for them: and evil is it for a destination.
Quran 48:6



أَلَم تَرَ إِلَى الَّذينَ أوتوا نَصيبًا مِنَ الكِتٰبِ يُؤمِنونَ بِالجِبتِ وَالطّٰغوتِ وَيَقولونَ لِلَّذينَ كَفَروا هٰؤُلاءِ أَهدىٰ مِنَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا سَبيلًا

Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book?
they believe in sorcery and Evil, and say to the Disbelievers that they are better guided in the (right) way Than the believers!

أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَمَن يَلعَنِ اللَّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ نَصيرًا

They are (men) whom Allah hath cursed: And those whom Allah Hath cursed, thou wilt find, have no one to help.

Quran - chapter 4: verses 51-52
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جوري
01-08-2013, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Them? LOL
I don't assume that allegation to be true to draw any conclusion thereof. Let's only deal with the facts, the facts are barbarians are labeling others Barbarian because they differ from them (in their brand of tribalism) I wouldn't want to disappoint you, and because those original plundering Barbarians desire to rape and ravage entire lands grabbing as much booty while causing as much psychological damage in the process as the defense minister stated: the 'enemy' has to be compelled in such a way that when they wake up, they wake up dead!

best,
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Urban Turban
01-08-2013, 05:34 PM
There needs to be a button like the 'like button which says 'Inna lillah wa inaa ilayhi wa rajioon' - because honestly the first post deserves it.
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جوري
01-08-2013, 06:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Urban Turban
the first post deserves it
The first post doesn't deserve your first glance- it is wrought with erroneous allegations, faulty presumptions and charged with inflammatory words meant to elicit your reaction in a negative fashion, to defend or react is to dignify it:

Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)[3:186]

[RECITE]
[top] [next match]

Latublawunna fee amwalikum waanfusikum walatasmaAAunna mina allatheena ootoo alkitaba min qablikum wamina allatheena ashrakoo athan katheeran wain tasbiroo watattaqoo fainna thalika min AAazmi alomoori
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Cabdullahi
01-08-2013, 06:14 PM
Why do we not see those who champion equality-democracy-empowerment of women-homosexuality shun those who are 'supposedly' the polar opposite in style and the way they conduct things?



oDAVIDCAMERON570 1?1 -



Democracy as a system, either does not exist(in the minds of these politician) or those who champion it(politicians) do not practice it the way the average Joe is taught it should be practiced, a system which, in this modern world, is the only system which brings about progression instead of regression.

The only system there is, is deception. One face for the average Joe-to keep his hopes up, that this democracy is wonderful- and another for buddies, who are complicit in the looting of oil, diamonds and other valuable, natural resources, meanwhile giving each other expensive gifts of sashes and bling bling chains.

There's an inner circle who work together and have the same beliefs, the same system. They do not care about us one bit.
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Muezzin
01-08-2013, 09:56 PM
Thread starter has been recently active but not responded to this thread.

You wouldn't be using a facade in order to stir the pot (of Ragu), would you? You nut, you.
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'Abd-al Latif
01-08-2013, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
would you?
Oh wouldn't he?

Curious. Very curious.
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GuestFellow
01-08-2013, 10:13 PM
It's funny how we are all getting so jumpy when the topic creator is like meh whatever LOL. :/
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 09:11 AM
It just annoys me when Muslims living in the western world want to impose Shariah law on the masses when Shariah law has
not worked itself in Muslim majority countries. If Shariah has failed in Muslim countries then it is bound to fail in Non-Muslim
countries. Also I believe that when in Rome do as the Romans, Surely the Muslims in the Western World should attempt to
embrace rather than change the culture and society that has adopted them?

In the UK muslims have Ghetto areas like Dewsbury, Its like something from Afghanistan, Its utterly, utterly run down, pot holed
roads, rubbish on the streets, Burkha clad woman, Azan from towers, etc
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IslamicRevival
01-09-2013, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
It just annoys me when Muslims living in the western world want to impose Shariah law on the masses when Shariah law has
not worked itself in Muslim majority countries. If Shariah has failed in Muslim countries then it is bound to fail in Non-Muslim
countries. Also I believe that when in Rome do as the Romans, Surely the Muslims in the Western World should attempt to
embrace rather than change the culture and society that has adopted them?

In the UK muslims have Ghetto areas like Dewsbury, Its like something from Afghanistan, Its utterly, utterly run down, pot holed
roads, rubbish on the streets, Burkha clad woman, Azan from towers, etc
You need to wash your mouth out Ragu. You slander and accuse many Muslims of being hypocrites in your opening post by making sweeping generalisations which hold no water and now you have the audacity to attack the law of Allah by lying and claiming its failed when it never has and never will?

You should look closer to home before branding others as hypocrites
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جوري
01-09-2013, 11:17 AM
Ragu is an undereducated Christian missionary - you stay on a forum long enough and you see them a dime a dozen come and go. Must be irritating after they spend a fortune debarring others from true guidance, invading and pillaging countries with their 'uber sophisticated' machines still are defeated and withdraw their troops in utter humiliation and for naught to see their countries bankrupt, their religion a joke and revolt after revolt bringing exactly that which they despise 'Islamists'.
So in fact it's marvelous to see the likes of ragu seething in their rage - sure does the heart good :)
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aamirsaab
01-09-2013, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
It just annoys me when Muslims living in the western world want to impose Shariah law on the masses when Shariah law has
not worked itself in Muslim majority countries. If Shariah has failed in Muslim countries then it is bound to fail in Non-Muslim
countries. Also I believe that when in Rome do as the Romans, Surely the Muslims in the Western World should attempt to
embrace rather than change the culture and society that has adopted them?

In the UK muslims have Ghetto areas like Dewsbury, Its like something from Afghanistan, Its utterly, utterly run down, pot holed
roads, rubbish on the streets, Burkha clad woman, Azan from towers, etc
What happened to you man? Seriously, something deeply horrible and scarring must have occured in your life for you to be constantly acting in such a self hating manner. As a brother and fellow human being, I sincerely advise you to seek some sort of counselling.
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'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 02:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
It just annoys me when Muslims living in the western world want to impose Shariah law on the masses when Shariah law has
not worked itself in Muslim majority countries. If Shariah has failed in Muslim countries then it is bound to fail in Non-Muslim
countries. Also I believe that when in Rome do as the Romans, Surely the Muslims in the Western World should attempt to
embrace rather than change the culture and society that has adopted them?

In the UK muslims have Ghetto areas like Dewsbury, Its like something from Afghanistan, Its utterly, utterly run down, pot holed
roads, rubbish on the streets, Burkha clad woman, Azan from towers, etc
You're not Muslim are you? You're just here to rant some ignorant garbage.

Places like the utterly run-down, pot-holed Dewsbury is a town in your own home country: the United Kingdom. That's not a Shari'ah-ran place.
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 02:11 PM
I was born into a Muslim family of Pakistani origins in the UK, I have seen the very, very negative side of Islam and its affect on woman and children and the economic misery it causes. Since someone has said that Shariah is perfect can you please tell me where in the world it has been successfully implemented and where it works? It has failed in Saudi Arabia, It has failed in Iran, It has failed in Pakistan.

I have lost all faith in Islam, I came here, because I wanted some answers to questions I was always fearful to ask in real life because I would be threatened and intimated by foaming at the mouth mullahs.
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'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 02:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
I was born into a Muslim family of Pakistani origins in the UK, I have seen the very, very negative side of Islam and its affect on woman and children and the economic misery it causes. Since someone has said that Shariah is perfect can you please tell me where in the world it has been successfully implemented and where it works? It has failed in Saudi Arabia, It has failed in Iran, It has failed in Pakistan.

I have lost all faith in Islam, I came here, because I wanted some answers to questions I was always fearful to ask in real life because I would be threatened and intimated by foaming at the mouth mullahs.
The first thing you have to do is to stop being so accusative. If you behave in a hostile manner then you'll only receive hostile responses.

First and foremost, what you've probably been witnessing are old uncles and aunties compelling traditional practices upon themselves and their families and then calling it Islam. There is a big difference between what a lot of people do and what Islam actually is.

Secondly, to go and blame Islam and being hostile towards it isn't going to get you anywhere. If you have questions that you'd like answered then we'll answer them if we are able to but you need to make your approach a little more appropriate. I'll tell you from the here: the problem is not with Islam, it never has been. The problem is with the people.
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 02:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
The first thing you have to do is to stop being so accusative. If you behave in a hostile manner then you'll only receive hostile responses.

First and foremost, what you've probably been witnessing are old uncles and aunties compelling traditional practices upon themselves and their families and then calling it Islam. There is a big difference between what a lot of people do and what Islam actually is.

Secondly, to go and blame Islam and being hostile towards it isn't going to get you anywhere. If you have questions that you'd like answered then we'll answer them if we are able to but you need to stop the ranting and making such unfounded accusations.
Do you have Skype? if so message me and I will call you there, then there will be no doubt that I am from Pakistani descent and from Muslim background
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'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 02:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Do you have Skype? if so message me and I will call you there, then there will be no doubt that I am from Pakistani descent and from Muslim background
I'm sorry I don't exchange personal details. Ask whatever you need to, just don't be so aggressive.
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 02:42 PM
Since someone has said that Shariah is perfect can you please tell me where in the world it has been successfully implemented and where it works?
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Since someone has said that Shariah is perfect can you please tell me where in the world it has been successfully implemented and where it works?
It's not been implemented fully anywhere in the past 100 years. But people want Shariah, why do you think there are all these protests in the Arab world?

Having said that, one does not need human experience as proof to say that Shari'ah works. Islam was revealed by the Creator of the heavens and the earth so it is free from the influences of human desires and from the limitations of a human being. This is what makes it perfect: it is from the One who Created all that exists and contains the perfect guidelines for our success in this life and the next.
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Urban Turban
01-09-2013, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
Ragu is an undereducated Christian missionary - you stay on a forum long enough and you see them a dime a dozen come and go. Must be irritating after they spend a fortune debarring others from true guidance, invading and pillaging countries with their 'uber sophisticated' machines still are defeated and withdraw their troops in utter humiliation and for naught to see their countries bankrupt, their religion a joke and revolt after revolt bringing exactly that which they despise 'Islamists'.
So in fact it's marvelous to see the likes of ragu seething in their rage - sure does the heart good :)

I think so too..
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IslamicRevival
01-09-2013, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
I was born into a Muslim family of Pakistani origins in the UK, I have seen the very, very negative side of Islam and its affect on woman and children and the economic misery it causes. Since someone has said that Shariah is perfect can you please tell me where in the world it has been successfully implemented and where it works? It has failed in Saudi Arabia, It has failed in Iran, It has failed in Pakistan.

I have lost all faith in Islam, I came here, because I wanted some answers to questions I was always fearful to ask in real life because I would be threatened and intimated by foaming at the mouth mullahs.
You shouldn't judge Islam by the actions of Muslims today, rather judge Islam based on the beautiful character of our Nabi (Infinite peace and blessings be upon him), THE best of mankind and our ultimate role model.

Shariah law is divine guidance for mankind from our creator so it can never fail when implemented correctly. Saudi Arabi, Iran and Pakistan are majority Muslim countries but they do not follow Shariah law in its absolute entirety and no country has for decades.

Its incredibly sad you've lost faith but i think its due to your own lack of understanding that you find yourself in this position. Cut out the negativity by not allowing past experiences to cloud your judgement, learn your deen from learned Scholars and maybe you'll see the light Inshaa Allah.

I sincerely pray you find your way.
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جوري
01-09-2013, 04:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Do you have Skype? if so message me and I will call you there, then there will be no doubt that I am from Pakistani descent and from Muslim background
You said Pakistanis or 'Asians' were retards on the other thread- should we take that to apply to you as well? I think it is the only natural conclusion given the nature of your simpleton type questions and your desire to draw satisfaction out of overly simplistic conclusions!

best,
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جوري
01-09-2013, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Places like the utterly run-down, pot-holed Dewsbury is a town in your own home country:
Isn't that indeed a reflection on the UK? The first thought that came to mind was how they must discriminate against Muslims by picking up garbage everywhere, as is the case in every country but neglecting Muslim populated areas!
He talks about Burkas the way folks should speak of prostitution- you got to shrug your shoulders in amusement over that one!
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
You said Pakistanis or 'Asians' were retards on the other thread- should we take that to apply to you as well? I think it is the only natural conclusion given the nature of your simpleton type questions and your desire to draw satisfaction out of overly simplistic conclusions!

best,
The majority of Pakistani Muslims in the UK marry their first cousins and often their children then continue to marry their first cousin, the end result is the birth defects, heart problems, diabetes amongst other problems. I bet if you know any Pakistanis then some of them will have heart problems, diabetes, kidney failure etc.
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جوري
01-09-2013, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
The majority of Pakistani Muslims in the UK marry their first cousins and often their children then continue to marry their first cousin, the end result is the birth defects, heart problems, diabetes amongst other problems. I bet if you know any Pakistanis then some of them will have heart problems, diabetes, kidney failure etc.
You must have not seen this thread?
http://www.islamicboard.com/advice-s...ml#post1561762

sadly you also must not know basic fifth grade biology, and of course it is too much to hope that you'd know a bit about genetic diseases in medicine to know which ones are inherited in what fashion (recessive/dominant/x linked/mitochondrial) etc. before you open your bazoo!
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 05:15 PM
I am here trying to get find out the following questions that will help me understand my faith or lack off:

1. Why the Prophet Muhammad PBUH had more than 4 wifes at one time when Muslim men are not allowed more than 4 at a time: The thread for that has been made already and answer has
been given.

2. Why the Prophet Muhammad PBUH had personally killed someone whilst being present when others were being killed: The thread for that has been made already and answer has been given.

3. Why Muslims demand rights in Western countries that are denied to Non-Muslims in Muslim majority countries : This is the thread for that

4. Why some Muslims are overly superstitious when that superstition is not grounded in Islam : Ie Does Allah punish parents via children by giving them problems.

5. Why prophet Muhammad married Aisha so young : This has been discussed to death and I didnt make a thread about it. Its a well known fact.
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Pygoscelis
01-09-2013, 05:17 PM
Now even I have to call this one out as a mere troll. I agree that theocracy is a horrible idea, but this fellow is way too combative. :skeleton:
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Now even I have to call this one out as a mere troll. I agree that theocracy is a horrible idea, but this fellow is way too combative. :skeleton:
Sorry sir, But asking questions is combative? I have referred to the Prophet of Islam with the abbreviations "PBUH" and asked the questions respectfully. Asking questions is not criticism.
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جوري
01-09-2013, 05:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
I am here trying to get find out the following questions that will help me understand my faith or lack off:
I take it you'll not defend the bomb you drop and walk away from? If you were truly interested in a fair exchange.
I'll be waiting for you to demonstrate in a scientific fashion the genetic disease that cause retardation amongst Muslims, how it is related to consanguineous marriage using some stats and a control!

The rest of your queries have been amply answered.
and here's a thread to address all the queries you can possibly think of (which I doubt very much you're able to do on your own)
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...l-threads.html

on the marriage of Aisha alone:



The Young Marriage of 'Aishah, Mother of the Believers, May Almighty Allaah be please

Young Marriage of Ayesha

The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)
Need help to Refute

Is it true??

Something to respond in regard to the marriage of Aisha

Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile. - Links to the E-Book and discussion [Contents pasted here]

prophets marriage to aishah..Marriage of Aisha - BEST REFUTATION EVER! The truth about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Aisha

Prophet's marriage with Hazrat Ayesha. Need help (Prophet's marriage with Hazrat Ayesha. Need help)

Aisha's age- the 17 years old argument - the claim that she was 17 years old. This claim has also been refuted here.

[post] A serious question about early marriages in Islam



Useful links

http://marriage-of-aisha.blogspot.co.uk/
http://www.themodernreligion.com/pro...phet_aisha.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt7vS7kxc50 - Yusuf Estes
Refutation of claim that she was 17 years old
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Pygoscelis
01-09-2013, 05:25 PM
You have done more than ask questions. Look back at your posts and the language you have used. The same things can be said in a less combative way. Yes, some here are steeped in tribalism to the point that they will cry foul and attack you no matter how you say something that doesn't jive with their world view, but others are more level headed and will hear you out and answer your questions if you are polite.
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جوري
01-09-2013, 05:26 PM
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1561772
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'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
3. Why Muslims demand rights in Western countries that are denied to Non-Muslims in Muslim majority countries : This is the thread for that
What rights are they denied?
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Big Ragu
01-09-2013, 05:35 PM
Folks I am leaving the forum. You wrongly accused me of being a "Christian missionary" and other things that I am not and just could not accept the view that I am having troubles with my religion.

I have not been here for long but it seems that some people have been deeply offended by asking questions regarding Islam. I find it offensive that because I was born into Muslim background that I am expected to accept everything without question. I have had a very, very, negative impression and interaction with Islam and Muslims. I have seen it all, Muslim men beating their wifes senseless, beating their children, being cruel to animals ,being irrational, spreading disease that were cured decades/centuries ago in the Western World, Demand equal rights in Western Countries and at same time killing religious minorities in their own Islamic nations, I have further seen the way that Muslims kill other Muslims.

I have had enough. This is my last post.
Q/
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Urban Turban
01-09-2013, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Folks I am leaving the forum. You wrongly accused me of being a "Christian missionary" and other things that I am not and just could not accept the view that I am having troubles with my religion.

I have not been here for long but it seems that some people have been deeply offended by asking questions regarding Islam. I find it offensive that because I was born into Muslim background that I am expected to accept everything without question. I have had a very, very, negative impression and interaction with Islam and Muslims. I have seen it all, Muslim men beating their wifes senseless, beating their children, being cruel to animals ,being irrational, spreading disease that were cured decades/centuries ago in the Western World, Demand equal rights in Western Countries and at same time killing religious minorities in their own Islamic nations, I have further seen the way that Muslims kill other Muslims.

I have had enough. This is my last post.
Q/
Thank you, hypocrite.
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جوري
01-09-2013, 05:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Big Ragu
Folks I am leaving the forum.
We'll hold you to that. Even an atheist senses your lack of sincerity and trollism!

Good riddance!
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'Abd-al Latif
01-09-2013, 05:49 PM
Fair enough. You know where the door is.

:threadclo
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