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Ar-RaYYan
01-19-2013, 03:12 AM

Algeria, Mali, and why this week has looked like an obscene remake of earlier Western interventions

We are outraged not by the massacre of the innocents, but because the hostages killed were largely white, blue-eyed chaps rather than darker, brown-eyed chaps

Odd, isn’t it, how our “collateral damage” is different from their “collateral damage”. Speaking yesterday to an old Algerian friend in the aviation business, I asked him what he thought of his country’s raid on the In Amenas gas plant.“Brilliant operation, Robert,” he shouted down the phone. “We destroyed the terrorists!” But the innocent hostages? What about their deaths, I asked? “Poor guys,” he replied. “We had thousands of women and children killed in our war [in the 1990s] – terrible tragedy – but we are fighting terrorism.”

And there you have it. Our dead men didn’t matter in the slightest to him. And he had a point, didn’t he? For we are outraged today, not by the massacre of the innocents, but because the hostages killed by the Algerian army – along with some of their captors – were largely white, blue-eyed chaps rather than darker, brown-eyed chaps. Had all the “Western” hostages – I am including the Japanese in this ridiculous, all-purpose definition – been rescued and had the innocent dead all been Algerian, there would have been no talk yesterday of a “botched raid”.

If all those slaughtered in the Algerian helicopter bombing had been Algerian, we would have mentioned the “tragic consequences” of the raid, but our headlines would have dwelt on the courage and efficiency of Algeria’s military rescuers, alongside interviews with grateful Western families.

Obscene
Racism isn’t the word for it. When George W Bush and Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara kicked off their war crimes with a full-scale invasion of Iraq, we didn’t care a **** about the Iraqis.Ten thousand dead in a year? Twenty thousand? Or as George Bush said, “Thirty thousand, more or less.” More or less what? But no problems with our precious dead. We know, for example, that since the Bush-Blair Iraqi adventure began, exactly 4,486 American military personnel died in the war.

So you know whom we care about. And whom we don’t care about. Watch carefully in the coming weeks, therefore, for the growing “Roll of Honour” of French troops in Mali, interviews in the French press with their relatives, statistics of the wounded. And don’t waste your time searching for details of dead Nigerian soldiers – or, indeed, dead Malian soldiers – because there will be no details of their sacrifice.

From the Middle East, the whole thing looks like an obscene television remake of our preposterous interventions in other parts of the world. French troops will be in Mali for only “several weeks”, Hollande and his cronies tell us. Isn’t that what we said when British troops first appeared on the streets of Northern Ireland, and then spent decades fighting there? Isn’t that what the Israelis said when they marched into Lebanon in 1982 and stayed for another 18 years? Isn’t this what we thought when we invaded Afghanistan? That our chaps might not even hear a shot fired in anger?

It was incredible to watch that old rogue Bernard Kouchner this week, mischievously demanding that British troops on the ground in Mali assist in France’s fight against Islamist “terror”. His eyes were alight with both cynicism and patriotism – a peculiarly French characteristic – as he played his 1914 entente cordiale “we’ll-be-in-Timbuktu-by-Christmas” routine.But why are “we”, the West, in Mali? How many readers – hands up, oh virtuous and honest folk, could actually name the capital of Mali two weeks ago?

I called up another friend, a French ex-legionnaire, yesterday. Why was France in Mali, I asked? “Well, they say that the Islamists would have reached Bamako and there would have been a Taliban-in-Kabul situation, a state that had fallen into extremist hands. But I myself don’t understand. Mali is an artificial state whose northern inhabitants, especially the Tuaregs, have always refused to be ruled by a black government in the south. It’s tribal, with a veil of ‘Islamism’ over the top of it – and now how do we get ourselves out of this mess?”

Disdain
Maybe we should ask Mokhtar Belmokhtar, the presumed “mastermind” – note the comic-cuts language we have to use for these vagabonds – of the Algerian raid. This is the “legendary” – again, note the adjective – “Mr Marlboro”, whose interest in contraband and semtex explosive belts seems to outweigh his duties to Islam. North African journalists know a lot about Belmokhtar and his cross-border trade in cigarettes, weapons, 4x4s, drugs, diamonds and illegal migrants, and they are also appalled that Algeria – Belmokhtar’s own birthplace – should now be involved in the Western crusade in Mali.

France’s overflights have been bitterly criticised in the Algerian press – a fact largely ignored in London where “wars on terror” take precedence over local Algerian opinion – as a symbol of Algerian humiliation at the hands of the country’s former colonisers.

But why should we care about the Algerians when they treat our dead with the disdain we have always shown for the Muslim dead of Iraq, Afghanistan or, for that matter, Palestine? Syria, please note, is temporarily in a different category, since our desire to destroy Bashar al-Assad allows us to turn all his victims into honorary Westerners. Odd, that. For among the rebels facing the ruthless Assad are folk very similar to Mr Belmokhtar and his merry Islamists, the very men who rouse the anger of Crusader Kouchner.

Do I sniff a bit of old-fashioned colonial insanity here? Carry on up the Niger? French troops battle rebels. “Terrorists” in retreat. Daily headlines from 1954 until 1962. In a country called Algeria. And I promise you, the French didn’t win that war.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...s-8457828.html
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Qurratul Ayn
01-20-2013, 08:47 PM
:bump:

Here's more drama:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21112189

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bloodbath.html
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LauraS
01-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Isn't it kind of obvious that the British media is more likely to focus on the British casualties? Just as the article says Algeria cares less? There has been praise from the British hostages for the Algerian military.

And what do you mean the "west's" perception, just from this one article?
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Jedi_Mindset
01-21-2013, 05:35 PM
''A terrorist shouted 'open the door!' with a strong north American accent, and opened fire. Two other Japanese died then and we found four other Japanese bodies in the compound,” Riad added, his voice choked with emotion.'' For people who have clear mind should think about this, 100% guaranteed this was an mercenary army.

Used as human shields’: Survivors of Algeria hostage crisis recall brutality and terror

In the wake of Algeria's In Amenas crisis, the hostage death toll rose to almost 60. The survivors have revealed tales of shocking brutality – captives were used as human shields, forced to wear explosive jackets and witness to horrific executions.
On Monday, Algerian Prime Minister Abdelmalek Sellal announced that 37 foreigners of eight nationalities were among those killed.

The four-day ordeal at the In Amenas gas plant in the Sahara Desert ended Saturday – several US, British, French, Japanese, Norwegian, Romanian and Algerian workers were reported dead or missing. Many of the survivors have spoken with the press, recounting horrific tales of the abuse and murder of hostages.
Philippine survivor Joseph Balmaceda witnessed foreign hostages being used as human shields to protect the militants. He described one Japanese hostage being draped with explosives, while he and others had their hands tied with cables.
“Whenever government troops tried to use a helicopter to shoot at the enemy, we were used as human shields,"Balmaceda told reporters shortly after he arrived back in Manila. "We were told to raise our hands. The government forces could not shoot at them as long as we were held hostage."

Balmaceda was the only survivor of nine hostages aboard a van that was bombed as militants clashed with Algerian security forces.
Militants targeted foreign hostages

Some of the freed workers described how they were forced to wear explosive jackets, and were threatened with being blown up. Others described watching their captors summarily execute hostages.
At a press conference on Sunday, the workers gave an account of how nine Japanese hostages were murdered.

Witnesses said the first three were killed as they tried to escape from a bus taking them to the airport. "We were all afraid when we heard bursts of gunfire at 5:30am (04:30 GMT) on Wednesday, after we realized that they had just killed our Japanese colleagues who tried to flee from the bus," AFP reported, quoting Riad, an Algerian national working for Japanese engineering firm JGC Corp.
Earlier reports claimed that one Brit and one Algerian were killed on the bus during the militants' initial assault. The gunmen then took the other bus passengers to the plant's residential compound, where they had taken hundreds of hostages, one witness explained.

"A terrorist shouted 'open the door!' with a strong north American accent, and opened fire. Two other Japanese died then and we found four other Japanese bodies in the compound,” Riad added, his voice choked with emotion.
During the hostage crisis, Algerian workers were held separately from the foreign nationals. According to witnesses, they were treated well, and the militants said they were not interested in killing non-Christians; eventually, they were allowed to leave.
"I was allowed to go, but before I did, I saw many Brits killed," an unidentified man told reporters. "One Westerner trying to give first aid was blown up by the terrorists."
Another unnamed witness who said he worked as an engineer told the French press that the militants were shouting:“We’re only looking for foreigners, you Algerians can go!”

Some workers managed to flee the complex by cutting a hole through a metal fence, according to media reports
A 57-year-old Norwegian man was reportedly among the 50 people who escaped through the fence. He told the press that he and the others had to walk for 15 hours through the desert, braving exhaustion and severe dehydration, before reaching the nearest town of In Amenas.

Another survivor, an Algerian driver identified as 'Brahim,' also escaped through the fence. He found refuge almost immediately when he stumbled onto the Algerian army.
"As bullets rang nonstop, we cut holes in the metal fence with large clippers, and once through, we all started running,"Brahim said. "We were quickly taken in by the special forces stationed just a dozen meters from the base. I didn't look back."
Death toll climbs

On Monday, the bodies of two Canadians were discovered among the Islamists killed during the hostage crisis, after having been recovered from the site, Algerian private TV station Ennahar reported. Reuters also reported that nine Japanese nationals were killed during the four-day siege.
A raid by the Algerian military on Saturday ended the hostage crisis, with initial reports that at least 25 foreigners and Algerians had been killed, along with 32 of the kidnappers. The death toll was later raised to at least 89.
At least one of the militants responsible for the kidnapping was supposedly a French national, but Paris could not verify the claim, France24 reported. If true, the allegation would reinforce earlier reports by some of the surviving hostages, who claimed to have heard militants speaking French and English, in addition to Arabic.

Some of the hostages also said that the militants were able to easily navigate the facility, and knew its internal procedures and the room numbers of the foreign workers. "They had accomplices on the inside," Riad said.
Earlier, the militants said the attack on the plant had been planned for two months, Mauritania's ANI news agency reported.

http://rt.com/news/algeria-hostages-recall-crisis-419/

Since when do malians have strong north american accents?

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tearose
01-21-2013, 07:31 PM
LauraS, why obvious? For the majority of people who aren't directly concerned, the implication of the British media's focus is an assumption that their viewers/readers are primarily motivated by nationalism. That's an irritating assumption to work with if you don't subscribe to nationalism and just want to know what's happening in the world. Having said that, the article is quite odd in that the author asks, 'Why are we, the West, in Mali?' (good question)but fails to respond to or analyse that question in any way. That's the problem with dealing with serious issues in such a flippant manner. Based on the title I would have liked to see some criticism of the military intervention and the Western involvement in it, rather than criticism of the media coverage, which is a lot easier to do but doesn't get to the heart of the issues and doesn't encourage people to move on from the usual generalisations and stereotypes.
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LauraS
01-21-2013, 11:06 PM
^^^Because it's natural for a country to focus on news of it's own citizens, because the victims involved will be known to people in Britain. Also as the hostages return here it is our press they will give their stories to. I would expect the same to happen in any country, it doesn't make the media racist and doesn't mean other victims won't be mentioned. The same thing happens with any crisis, with the awful school massacre slightly extra coverage was given to the British boy who was killed. When the plane crashed in Nepal last year there was a focus on the identity of the British passengers on board. It doesn't mean the other victims are any less important. The author also says of his Algerian friend, "And there you have it. Our dead men didn’t matter in the slightest to him." it swings both ways. Although I think it's a bit of a harsh generalisation for the author to suggest no one cares for anyone but their own nationalities. I'm also tired of everyone just getting lumped together as "the west".

I'm interested in the Muslim perception of this situation then, so do people believe it's another staged attack?
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tearose
01-22-2013, 12:05 PM
I understand your point, that's why I said 'the majority of people who aren't directly concerned'. Some people will watch the news and see items about people who are known to them, most won't, but they keep watching because they are interested. If the headline was 'x number of people killed, including x number of Britons', it would be of interest to both groups. If you just say 'x number of Britons killed' it is of interest to the first group but to the second (the majority) what is the implication? I agree it's not necessarily racism but I think nationalism comes into it.

On your question about the possibility of staging, how can we know? In incidents like this, we don't know much about the people involved, it is surrounded by secrecy and conflicting claims. People are still debating the aspects of events that happened decades and centuries ago. The fact that we have more sophisticated technology now doesn't necessarily mean we know more. Allah knows best.
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Independent
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
I agree it's not necessarily racism but I think nationalism comes into it.
The only racism that matters here is by the terrorists themselves, who went through the employees and singled out every non-Arab/non-African man for execution or ransom.

Race alone was sufficient to condemn them.
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tearose
01-22-2013, 01:54 PM
Firstly, as I understand it, none of the articles or the posters in this thread have offered any approval for the actions of the hostage takers whatsoever and neither would I.

Secondly, the point you raised may be the only aspect of the situation that matters to you, however that isn't the case for everyone, and the points under discussion are not directly related to the one you made.
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Independent
01-22-2013, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
the points under discussion are not directly related to the one you made.
And how is Jedi's default conspiracy theory more related? What's that got to do with racism?

format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
none of the articles or the posters in this thread have offered any approval for the actions of the hostage takers whatsoever and neither would I.
Jedi is trying to shift the responsibility from the hostage takers back onto westerners themselves. So yes, in effect he is providing an excuse for the real perpetrators.
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Jedi_Mindset
01-22-2013, 05:51 PM
I even doubt if these guys were so-called ''islamists'' as well. they have been trained to do this, and this plan to hundreds of hostage and lock down the entire facility must have been planned in advance. It adds up to the destabilzation of the region. Even before this french colonization. Remember that the CIA and special forces have been caught red handed posing as muajhideen meanwhile placing VBIEDS near mosques and in market places.

''Al Qanada: Sahara gas terrorists were led by Canadian and had insider help

21 Jan 2013 22:00
Islamist fighters knew the In Amenas complex “by heart”, were wearing Algerian military uniforms and had a former employee in their ranks,''

Islamists? No. Mercenaries - yes. Considering that this move was organized and planned by a westerner after all, blue eyes blond hair is how they described him. Look which vital interest would the mujahideen of mali have to hijack a oil facility? None, they have their hands full with the invasion on their ground.
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Jedi_Mindset
01-22-2013, 05:59 PM
Before the mujahideen took power in north mali the area was fully controlled by foreign companies, especially the uranium and gold mines there. I guess thats why france jumped on it straight away. Syria has not much resources and is dependend on gas from iran, they thought they could find gas in the mediterrean however israhellhas occupied these gas fields already. the west wouldnt give a **** about the syrians indeed, and a invasion of syria will very well risk a global or wider conflict, and the west cant take that.

The west with fake promises to overthrow Assad, but this wont happen. Assad will be brought down by the groups fighting him and not by NATO. However syria has a long way to recover sadly.
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جوري
01-22-2013, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
I guess thats why france jumped on it straight away
duhhhhhhhh.. of course that's why they're there. Every one of those western wh0re nations is there to secure something and they only stand to have despots in power to mooch off our blood. I don't know why it is that folks care to win the 'war of public opinion'? I personally think we should collectively move past that. They're not anymore honorable for labeling themselves 'freedom fighters' and the others 'terrorists' -- strip it all of the florid terms and see it for what it is!
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Jedi_Mindset
01-22-2013, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
duhhhhhhhh.. of course that's why they're there. Every one of those western wh0re nations is there to secure something and they only stand to have despots in power to mooch off our blood. I don't know why it is that folks care to win the 'war of public opinion'? I personally think we should collectively move past that. They're not anymore honorable for labeling themselves 'freedom fighters' and the others 'terrorists' -- strip it all of the florid terms and see it for what it is!
Problem for france and good for us is that they never really won a war. Only with help from traitors and its allies in the UK and the US.

And the mujahideen north mali have proven themselves to be very experienced, considering that some of these rebels had trained in the US-backed malian army first, after seperating from them. I really hope france gets a good beat down. And that the frenchies will consider and doubt their own government. insha'Allah
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جوري
01-22-2013, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
I really hope france gets a good beat down.
They will indeed.. they're cowards like their UK counterparts. However the problem is indeed the people on the ground they brain wash to do their bidding (just a war tactic) aimed at the weak minded- There was a time in history when they'd boast that they won the war without losing a single British soldier.. obviously using commonwealth regions that they'd colonized.
The world or rather the people have evolved so fast, the new generations has such an aversion for our parents generation and their obsequious servile ways.
It won't be easy for them at all. Now is the time for Muslims to rise if they're true!

:w:
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May Ayob
01-22-2013, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
I've been told a million times that Muslims do not and cannot endorse terrorism. But you do. So i guess you're not a Muslim.
Hi, I know you propably think that sister Shaden is endorsing terrorism by her posts but I think-please correct me if I'm wrong- she's trying to express how western intervention in international affairs is very dishonest and biased and their foreign affairs policies are also driven by ulterior motives. With that being said;I think she's saying that how come when it comes to muslims being killed in massive number they couldn't careless but when there some kind of turmoil going on in a country of their beneficial interest they get very hiped up about it. I'm mainly talking about the governments here which I know don't represent the whole population of it's people so I didn't mean to make any generalization. I too hope that sister Shaden didn't actaully mean to advocate terrorism--Just try to see things from a non-western perspective may help to know what she meant.
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May Ayob
01-22-2013, 06:22 PM
Guys, come on, enough with the label's and nicknaming- the entire population of France and the UK are not as bad as their governments.
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جوري
01-22-2013, 06:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Guys, come on, enough with the label's and nicknaming- the entire population of France and the UK are not as bad as their governments.
We're discussing governments sis are we not? Although after the treatment and overt bigotry France displays against its Muslim citizens and the random arrests of sisters in Burqas and fining them and stripping them in police stations, there's absolutely no love left. I don't feel like I have to apologize or be politically correct. Is there a law against saying it as it is? I understand that you're very sensitive I see it in your various posts and it is a sweet trait to have. We can't all be bestowed with such gentleness nor should we be. Many like the Ammar Ibn Yassir Route and he was a wonderful Sahabi, but we also had Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed as a sahabi.
Right now we're at war.. and sometimes war is psychological I am asking you to not yield or at least look the other way while others do their part :ia: the 3aqiba is lilmotaqeen!

:w:


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Jedi_Mindset
01-22-2013, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Guys, come on, enough with the label's and nicknaming- the entire population of France and the UK are not as bad as their governments.
Never gave the fault to the population as they're victims of their zionist dominated government also. However when they sign up for the army their own choice, but they should bear the concequences when they fight imperialist wars.
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May Ayob
01-22-2013, 06:55 PM
we also had Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed as a sahabi.
We should be like him when it's called for. No one really knows what's going on there for sure, unless of course you happen to be there.

Please let's overlook the whole 'incitation for violence' issue and continue our disscussion.
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Jedi_Mindset
01-22-2013, 07:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
if you want to make it clear that you oppose violence, despite everything you've said, go ahead
We muslim are opposed to violence, but jihad means struggle (Not holy war as the west claims), jihad in terms of warfare is self defense and in the qu'ran we've alot of rules explaining this and how. During war we should not transgress (attacking civilians is haraam(Forbidden) and war should be fought to prevent killing of non-combatants intentionally. We are also told that we should strike with the same things as our enemy does however we muslims dont have warplanes, tanks et cetera, most of this weaponry are in the hands of arab dictators. And when using these things, we should also prevent civilian casualties. When prophet muhammed(saw) saw bodies of dead women and children, he(Saw) uttermost forbade it to kill them as they are non-combatants.

And we have ofcourse jihad e akbar which is the struggle against our nafs and desires. Sis Shaden is against violence, but something needs to be done to get rid of the western occupations of muslim lands, if US for example wants to withdraw its soldiers, stop support for israel and stop support for arab dictators then peace can be achieved with the US, however it is less likely they wont because its all for the security of 'israel' right?
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tearose
01-22-2013, 07:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
And how is Jedi's default conspiracy theory more related? What's that got to do with racism?
It's related to the topic of the thread. You made your point in relation to a statement of mine which you quoted, and I felt your point was not an answer to what I had said. It was a different aspect of the same topic.
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tearose
01-22-2013, 07:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Jedi is trying to shift the responsibility from the hostage takers back onto westerners themselves. So yes, in effect he is providing an excuse for the real perpetrators.
I don't see how that equates to approval of the hostage takers. It is vital to highlight the injustices committed and the violence against innocents perpetrated by the West and to condemn the military intervention in Mali and the wider region.
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sister herb
01-22-2013, 08:13 PM
Salam alaykum

Victims were innocent civilians in Algeria - as well all victims like kind of happenings in the conflicts are. They were just workers of some company, with no contact to political issues. We should call they murderers as murderers - nothing else.

^o)
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sister herb
01-22-2013, 09:14 PM
Salam alaykum

killing innocent civilians - just same what is they religion or´what is they national background has nothing to do with Islam. It only murdering - all againts Islam.

If anyone defends it by religion - he/she should think a little more what religion really teach.
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جوري
01-22-2013, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
If anyone defends it by religion
Perhaps you can show me where anyone has defended the killing of civilians using religion?
Everything is plain and simple don't be baited by what the shill says or the words he puts in other people's mouth and yet he runs with utmost cowardice when the time comes for him to put his money where his mouth is!
We're merely stating that this is WAR and just like they give themselves the rights to drone innocent victims everyday, pillage, rape, falsely imprison and hold without trials others for thought crimes (if at all we can call it that) that they shouldn't in the least open their bazoo when their treatment is met in kind which I still don't think it is, as you're taking a bunch of freedom fighters without much by way of weapons, or artillery and comparing it to nations who have perfected the art of genocide with style. Read a little between the lines is all we're asking and don't be so quick to judge based on what the likes of him say.
One country's terrorists is another country's freedom fighter.. isn't that what they call their oh so brave boys when they go on gang raping 14 year olds and then covering their crimes up?

:w:
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sister herb
01-22-2013, 10:04 PM
Salam alaykum

I haven´t claim any here defends those whose murderers of innocent civilians. In any countries defence fighters shouldn´t never to so low as kill civilians. It is illecal by Islam at all.

If we think other defence fighters, they would never do so.

Those whose killed people in Algeria are not any kind of defence fighters, they only are murderers. If they like to call them as part of al-qaeda - then all al-qaeda is insults againt Islam.
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جوري
01-22-2013, 10:11 PM
Allah A3lam who they're-I sincerely don't know.… I don't care whether or not they are mercenaries. In fact we all know that the first recorded suicide bombing came from Christian soldiers during the Crusades to free The Holy City of Jerusalem from the control of Muslim armies. During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships with 140 Christians on board in order to kill 10 times as many Muslims in the opposing fleet.

So they'll do whatever.… It is war after all. However I am saying I don't care as to how they incur those losses if it changes the public opinion of their people enough to have them withdraw from these places.… and let's face it, they're not there in any part of the Muslim world out of the goodness of their hearts or because they're so principled. They're there to loot and imperialize. No one really got their independence and I have so many tales to tell especially of the French & British occupation of that particular spot in the world.

:w:
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sister herb
01-22-2013, 10:19 PM
Salam alaykum

I don´t think that Japanese or Norweigh natural gas engineers have to do much with Christian Crusaders hundreds years ago. What if stay at 2013 and crimes called murders of innocent civilians.

I no see any other reason to murder innocent people than some others whose understand about Islam nothing. They might say it was political - to me it will allways just as murder.
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جوري
01-22-2013, 10:26 PM
It is what it is a means to an end... Whatever they're thinking whether mercenaries or otherwise doesn't aggrieve me... They're not aggrieved by all the evil that they do or the ones which they stand idle watching without so much as a word against it.. why should I be aggrieved over what becomes of them? :Allah::swt: raises people based on their intent whether Japanese, Norwegians or from Kuala Lumpur. I am not here to judge, condemn or condone-I merely hope at the end western forces withdraw from all the places they're occupying and truly mind their own affairs and stop building their societies on the blood, sweat, tears and death of the poor whom they subjugate so freely and have not a word of remorse nor sorrow beyond 'collateral damage' to describe what they do.
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sister herb
01-22-2013, 10:31 PM
Salam alaykum

I too hope that from Algeria they could find engineers from Algeriens but if not, what is problems to bring´them from other countries like from Japan or from UK or USA or Norweign?

They will need to pay by they life because they countries make attack to other countries.

May Allah gives punishment to murderers what they deserve. Nothing else to say.
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syed_z
01-27-2013, 12:58 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum....

The Algerian Hostage conflict from an Islamic perspective is Haraam (Illegal).

There is no teachings in Islam which tells the Muslims to take hostage from among the unarmed civilians, especially those who have come to work in your land in peace.

Or unless they have found proof that these Western individuals have come disguised as workers but are actually undercover agents of the Western armies, which obviously here was not the case.


------------------------------------

Al Qaeda In the Maghrib (AQIM)

This group called Al Qaeda in the Maghrib was known as GSPC (Group for Salafist Preaching and Combat). This group had many people who dissented from the original GIA (Armed Islamic Group) which was the first group of Muslims who stood up against the Secular pro western regime of Algeria. The GSPC was formed by Hassan Hattab because he wanted to disown the GIA's killing of innocent civilians which was giving a bad name to their struggle against the pro western regime.

The GSPC later announced their alliance with AQIM after its leadership was replaced by violent people, and then AQIM started a violent campaign inside Algeria, thus lending peoples support to the secular regime of Algeria to crack down against this group.

There is no doubt that Algerian Intelligence might have infiltrated these groups with their agents to defame and destroy its original cause from within. But at the same time Intelligence agencies of the Muslim Governments keep these agents and do not kill them in order to use them for any further regional goals they might have.


By AQIM's attack on the innocent Western civilians on the gas plant, the group once again has proven its tendency towards Un-Islamic acts which they are known for and on top of it they have given a bad name to the Tuareg Freedom Fighters and their goal of establishing independent Azawad state in North Mali, which they had almost accomplished in gaining from the pro French Regime in Bamako, the capital of Mali.

They have made the foot steps of Amena Gas Plant attack appear to be leading towards North Mali, just as Sept 11th Attack the footsteps led towards Afghanistan. The Taliban rejected any involvement in the New York attacks just as the Tuareg Brothers are surprised about their being allegedly associated with the Amena Gas plant attack by the international media.

A group dissenting from the original MNLA called the Ansar Dine associated itself with Al Qaeda in the Maghreb not very long ago before this attack. Now this character leading Ansar Dine named Iyad Aghali is a very mysterious character who dissented because the MNLA refused to give him leadership. His dissension has come as a great news for the Bamako Government and the French Government who will definitely take advantage of this disent in their fight to 'liberate' north mali from Tuareg 'rebels'.

Read about this character, rest is up to you to decide.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18814291


There is no doubt that the Algerian regime will also be getting a share of the war on terror fund that is going to be pledged by NATO allies, because the Amena Gas Plant attack took place on their soil. That fund will 'help' Alegria fight its war against terrorism inside Algeria as well as help the Malian regime against the Tuareg 'rebels'.
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Independent
01-28-2013, 10:18 AM
Excellent post syed. Apologies if this one is overlong but the situation in Mali/Algeria is so complicated.

Just because a group announces to the world that is fighting for ‘Islamic’ objectives and Sharia law, that doesn’t mean that's their true or most important motive. The key leader, Iyad Aghali, has been a player in the region for a long time. In the past he was associated mainly with the Tuareg independence movement. At various times he has been at war with both the Algerian and Mali governments but made deals with both of them. His real motives are enigmatic but the one common factor is personal power for himself.

During the time that he made a deal with Mali he was sent as a member of Mali’s diplomatic staff to Jeddah and it’s the Saudi connection that seems to have made the difference. He was radicalised and, as a result, recalled by the Mali government. He returned as a hardliner who had put his days of partying, music and poetry behind him, and hijacked the Tuareg rebellion that was already under way.

However, in the attempt to take over the whole country he has overplayed his hand. As a result the French have also sent troops and the tide of war has turned dramatically. Aghali is therefore once again cynically looking for a ‘deal’, as he has done so many times in the past.

Mokhtar Belmokhtar

Mokhtar is the man behind the attack on the Algerian gas plant. Previously a member of AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Maghreb) he has now formed a separate group. As part of AQIM he shared in a long history of kidnapping for ransom and cigarette smuggling. From a financial point of view, they are considered to have been some of the most successful hostage takers in the world. They attacked targets in various countries including Algeria, always looking for western hostages (worth more to ransom). In September 2010, the group took seven hostages from a uranium mine in Arlit, Niger, and kidnapped four European tourists in Mali in January 2009. Killing hostages was not the prime aim, except to ‘force the pace’ in ransom negotiations.

This recent attack follows a similar pattern except that this time, they have introduced a new ‘Islamic’ political objective. It’s not clear from events whether they meant to get trapped in the plant, or whether they expected to take the hostages elsewhere. Either way, the ‘Islamic’ justification is a new description for old behaviour and looks like opportunism.

The Tuaregs

The Tuaregs are big losers in this because their bid for an independent state now looks further away than ever. Had the Islamic hardliners not hijacked their rebellion they might have succeeded in creating a semi-independent state in North Mali (which you can choose to view as a good or a bad thing). But when Aghali continued the invasion into the south that possibility ended.

It's always difficult because Tuareg territory cuts inconveniently across many other countries (just like the Kurds). In the past they made their living from cross-Saharan trade in gold etc but today, they have been reduced to cigarette and people smuggling, as well as tourism. The hardliners’ destruction of an internationally famous tourist site in Timbuctoo in an outburst of religious zealotry will not help them.

Tuareg ambitions have always been political/secular in the past but now they may be associated with Al Qaeda.

Who wins, who loses?

The Tuaregs lose heavily but the biggest sufferers in the short term are the Malian people. Besides the casualties and the refugees, one of the world’s poorest countries is now a great deal poorer. Algeria will also suffer if attacks on its energy infrastructure continue. If they became severe enough, you could see an economic collapse and another Arab country collapsing into chaos.

Even the Islamic hardliner groups lose in the short term, because they’re going to get kicked out of all their recent gains. On the other hand these groups thrive in political and economic chaos, so they may benefit in the medium term.

All together, the invasion of Mali by Islamic hardliners has been a disaster for the country and was probably motivated as much by personal gain as any sincere religious objective. This is a local war that has been hijacked by international groups (Al Qaeda influenced) with wholly negative consequences for all concerned.
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