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Truthseeker111
01-27-2013, 06:10 AM
al-salam alykom wa rahmatullah

Firstly, I would like to say that my user name and the title of this thread should speak out for itself. You have NO rights to judge me otherwise as Allah(swt) only himself truly sees whats in my heart and my true intentions. That being said, I should not expect anyone to label me as a Shia performing "taqiyia" in spreading his "filthy beliefs", accuse me of blasphemy or fitna ect. Born between a Shia and sunni parents, I only came to truly accept shiaism 2 years ago when I was 18. One of the reasons that made me accept Shiaism is because Shias are the only ones who simply approached me in a dawah manner and taught me the school of taught to it's core in the most convincing and logical approach. Unfortunately and very sadly, it was not the same experience that I had with Sunnis when it came to dawah. For the past 20 years of my life, I had the most horrible and bitter experience when debating with Sunnis. The people I debated with made me feel that the Sunnis were simply taught to believe that Shias were created as an incarnation of Satan, Shias are dajjaloon(deceivers) ,befriending or even coming into contact with shias is HARAM , killing shias are halal (as we have seen In Iraq and pakistan). One guy in the past went as far as saying that even the Shia layman don't have a tiny amount of Iman! Others and especially between my friends say that I spread fitnah when asking questions about their aqeedah , even in the most respectable manner. What I question the most, is that Sunnis put more of their efforts in giving dawah to non-muslims and kuffars than to the Shias. Its almost like they either don't bother with them or hate them to the point where they don't want them to seek the true path. Are these the akhlaq(morals and ethics) of the prophet? Did the prophet accuse the Christians of Najran of spreading fitnah, being deceivers, and dajjaloon when they approached him for a Mobahala? Of course not! The prophet (saw) took on the challenge against them until theysurrendered. That being said, these people that I had past experiences with obviously do NOT reflect on the prophet. I can safely say;that they themselves lack Akhlaq! What's the point of being a muslim without akhlaq , seriously?

Despite all this, I still have not learned the Sunni side of the story on Islam. I am wanting to give it another and last chance , right here in this forum, to learn about Sunniism from an unbiased viewpoint and to see weather if it is indeed the true path or not as it's followers claim it to be. I recently came to think that maybe in the past I narrowed my search on Sunnism on the wrong people, and that there might be more wise and respectable of it's members who might have a "kinder" approach when it comes to dawah. Inshallah , if there are such people right here on this forum, then I wish to benefit as much from them as I can.

Once again, I remind you all that my intentions are only to learn. If you think I am misguided on a specific topic, then don't just attack me for spreading blasphemy, just simply try to correct me with manners using a logical approach. Now to my questions.

1) Tawheed is the backbone of Islam and more important than anything else. However,  believing that god is one is simply not enough to fulfill the requirements of tawheed. Sunnis often label Shias as mushriks for interceding to Allah(swt) through other means, for example asking through the prophet(saw) and Ahlulbayt(as). For now, lets leave that aside but focus on the Sunni version of Tawheed. Based on my knowledge, Sunnis believe in tajseem(anthropomorphism) in regards to the attributes of Allah(swt). In other words, they believe that he has hands, feet and sit on a throne. Moreover, they believe that on Judgement say , the people will see Allah(swt)in front of them in a way where the full image of Allah(swt) will be enclosed in their tiny pupils and therefore, limit him. Now from a logical standpoint, I believe that this is pure shirk and the worst type of all , even worse than interceding through him based on the sunni stand point. How can Allah(swt) be limited? How can he be smaller than the universe? It all just doesn't make sense or logically respond to the mind. Please shed some light on this.

2) Sunnis believe that the noble Quran is not the only book that is authentic and free from error . They believe that their 6 books as well share the same attributes of the Quran, being 100% sahih , authentic and free from error. That being said, does that not make the 6 man written books have the same status as the Quran that is written by Allah(swt)? How can Muhammed al bukhari memorize thousands of Hadith throughout his life and write them down in books without making one single mistake. After all, he is a fallible human capable of error, so how is it not possible that he might have gotten confused between some of the hadiths? Please shed some light on this.

3) Allah(swt) guides whoever he wants to guide. That being said, based on the sunni stand point ,if Allah(swt) wants to guide someone, they have to be a Sunni in order for that to happen. Logically speaking , that does not make sense at all. How can that be true if I myself , as a Shia, fear Allah(swt) and seek the truth? Why is Allah(swt) not opening my eyes for Sunnism if it was indeed the true path? Is it fair that Allah(swt) has picked to guide a sunni who does not offer his salat, does haram and not remember Allah(swt) than to pick a "deviated" shia or non-muslim who is desperately seeking his guidance?

For now I want to discuss these three main points above as I see them be the most important than the other topics that Sunnis and shias often discuss(eg: cursing sahaba, wilaya , infalibility, karbala ect). I will open another thread and ask about the rest of the less important topics in the future.
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YusufNoor
01-27-2013, 06:23 AM
:sl:

brother, you are not allowed to discuss this here. maybe in another post you can ask 1 question, leaving editorializing out of it.

we don't believe what you have stated. pm me if you wish, i will gladly spend the time to discuss anything you like. check the last post i made for some references, esp Dr Bilal Philips, Foundations of Islamic Studies.

remember, Islam is what it is and not necessarily what you have seen some folks do.

no one should get angry if you have a mistaken belief. however teaching a mistaken belief is very, very wrong.

but like i said, i'm willing to chat. i'm off to bed now. but anytime that i have time, you are free to discuss this with me if you like.

ma salaama
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Woodrow
01-27-2013, 06:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Truthseeker111
al-salam alykom wa rahmatullah

Firstly, I would like to say that my user name and the title of this thread should speak out for itself. You have NO rights to judge me otherwise as Allah(swt) only himself truly sees whats in my heart and my true intentions. That being said, I should not expect anyone to label me as a Shia performing "taqiyia" in spreading his "filthy beliefs", accuse me of blasphemy or fitna ect. Born between a Shia and sunni parents, I only came to truly accept shiaism 2 years ago when I was 18. One of the reasons that made me accept Shiaism is because Shias are the only ones who simply approached me in a dawah manner and taught me the school of taught to it's core in the most convincing and logical approach. Unfortunately and very sadly, it was not the same experience that I had with Sunnis when it came to dawah. For the past 20 years of my life, I had the most horrible and bitter experience when debating with Sunnis. The people I debated with made me feel that the Sunnis were simply taught to believe that Shias were created as an incarnation of Satan, Shias are dajjaloon(deceivers) ,befriending or even coming into contact with shias is HARAM , killing shias are halal (as we have seen In Iraq and pakistan). One guy in the past went as far as saying that even the Shia layman don't have a tiny amount of Iman! Others and especially between my friends say that I spread fitnah when asking questions about their aqeedah , even in the most respectable manner. What I question the most, is that Sunnis put more of their efforts in giving dawah to non-muslims and kuffars than to the Shias. Its almost like they either don't bother with them or hate them to the point where they don't want them to seek the true path. Are these the akhlaq(morals and ethics) of the prophet? Did the prophet accuse the Christians of Najran of spreading fitnah, being deceivers, and dajjaloon when they approached him for a Mobahala? Of course not! The prophet (saw) took on the challenge against them until theysurrendered. That being said, these people that I had past experiences with obviously do NOT reflect on the prophet. I can safely say;that they themselves lack Akhlaq! What's the point of being a muslim without akhlaq , seriously?

Despite all this, I still have not learned the Sunni side of the story on Islam. I am wanting to give it another and last chance , right here in this forum, to learn about Sunniism from an unbiased viewpoint and to see weather if it is indeed the true path or not as it's followers claim it to be. I recently came to think that maybe in the past I narrowed my search on Sunnism on the wrong people, and that there might be more wise and respectable of it's members who might have a "kinder" approach when it comes to dawah. Inshallah , if there are such people right here on this forum, then I wish to benefit as much from them as I can.

Once again, I remind you all that my intentions are only to learn. If you think I am misguided on a specific topic, then don't just attack me for spreading blasphemy, just simply try to correct me with manners using a logical approach. Now to my questions.

1) Tawheed is the backbone of Islam and more important than anything else. However, *believing that god is one is simply not enough to fulfill the requirements of tawheed. Sunnis often label Shias as mushriks for interceding to Allah(swt) through other means, for example asking through the prophet(saw) and Ahlulbayt(as). For now, lets leave that aside but focus on the Sunni version of Tawheed. Based on my knowledge, Sunnis believe in tajseem(anthropomorphism) in regards to the attributes of Allah(swt). In other words, they believe that he has hands, feet and sit on a throne. Moreover, they believe that on Judgement say , the people will see Allah(swt)in front of them in a way where the full image of Allah(swt) will be enclosed in their tiny pupils and therefore, limit him. Now from a logical standpoint, I believe that this is pure shirk and the worst type of all , even worse than interceding through him based on the sunni stand point. How can Allah(swt) be limited? How can he be smaller than the universe? It all just doesn't make sense or logically respond to the mind. Please shed some light on this.

2) Sunnis believe that the noble Quran is not the only book that is authentic and free from error . They believe that their 6 books as well share the same attributes of the Quran, being 100% sahih , authentic and free from error. That being said, does that not make the 6 man written books have the same status as the Quran that is written by Allah(swt)? How can Muhammed al bukhari memorize thousands of Hadith throughout his life and write them down in books without making one single mistake. After all, he is a fallible human capable of error, so how is it not possible that he might have gotten confused between some of the hadiths? Please shed some light on this.

3) Allah(swt) guides whoever he wants to guide. That being said, based on the sunni stand point ,if Allah(swt) wants to guide someone, they have to be a Sunni in order for that to happen. Logically speaking , that does not make sense at all. How can that be true if I myself , as a Shia, fear Allah(swt) and seek the truth? Why is Allah(swt) not opening my eyes for Sunnism if it was indeed the true path? Is it fair that Allah(swt) has picked to guide a sunni who does not offer his salat, does haram and not remember Allah(swt) than to pick a "deviated" shia or non-muslim who is desperately seeking his guidance?

For now I want to discuss these three main points above as I see them be the most important than the other topics that Sunnis and shias often discuss(eg: cursing sahaba, wilaya , infalibility, karbala ect). I will open another thread and ask about the rest of the less important topics in the future.
First of all welcome to the forums. May you feel welcome here and may in time all your questions be answered/

Now withe that said I am closing this thread for any comments for 2 reasons,

Reason one this is the introduction section. the purpose is to introduce your self, it is not for debate.

Reason 2 we do not see divisions in Islam. there is only one Islam, no need for adjectives like Sunni, Shi'a Sufi. there is only one Ummah and we are all pat of. All Discussions that divide the Ummah are not permitted here.

Feel free to start a new Intro thread and this time avoid making it a debate.
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