Christianity and afterlife

[Indian Bro]

As-salamu alaykum,

I would like to know if my understanding stands correct,

If a person believes Jesus (PBUH) is God and then murders 1,000,000 people and dies without any remorse for his actions and doesn't repent to God but remains a Christian till he dies, will he enter heaven without ANY punishment?

Salam 3laikum

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Indian Bro;

No Christian can judge in the way that God would judge, we have to leave these things to God. In the same way you might ask can an atheist, Catholic, Hindu Jew, Muslim achieve salvation, again these things are in the hands of God.

We each have an understanding in both our faiths that God is just, compassionate, merciful and forgiving, we have an understanding of both heaven and hell.

In this life we can only strive to change ourselves and strive to do what we understand is the will of God.

In the spirit of praying and striving to change ourselves

Eric

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

The Bible says similar message like the Quran.

DO NOT KILL!

:heated:

I tell a little story from my life. Zionists killed my husband 20 years ago, then my fiance at 2008, I am muslim and pacifist but needed peace to my mind. How I can get revenge?

I was thinking few weeks in my mind and create international campaing as The operation teddy bears - teddies to the kids in The Gaza, whose lost they homes, toys, parents, friends. The Teddies sended to kids via Egypt.

:D Revenge ftom the pacifist. Do good when someone else makes bad to you.

[Indian Bro]

Greetings and peace be with you Indian Bro;

No Christian can judge in the way that God would judge, we have to leave these things to God. In the same way you might ask can an atheist, Catholic, Hindu Jew, Muslim achieve salvation, again these things are in the hands of God.

We each have an understanding in both our faiths that God is just, compassionate, merciful and forgiving, we have an understanding of both heaven and hell.

In this life we can only strive to change ourselves and strive to do what we understand is the will of God.

In the spirit of praying and striving to change ourselves

Eric

As-salamu alaykum Eric and thanks for your reply.

I understand that no human-being can question the judgement of God, but from the very little knowledge about Christianity that I have, I understand that Jesus (PBUH) died for the sins of mankind, therefore all Christians enter heaven irrespective of what they do on this Earth. Is this true?

Salam 3laikum

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[ardianto]

Assalamu'alaikum, Indian Bro.

I've guessed that you have a question about sin redemption in Christianity, and you assume that murderer will go to heaven without punishment because his sins have been redeemed.

Maybe Mister Eric H or other Christians can give explanation?

:)

[Indian Bro]

Assalamu'alaikum, Indian Bro.

I've guessed that you have a question about sin redemption in Christianity, and you assume that murderer will go to heaven without punishment because his sins have been redeemed.

Maybe Mister Eric H or other Christians can give explanation?

:)

As-salamu alaykum brother,

Thank you for understanding my question, this is precisely what I was asking about.

Salam 3laikum

[Iceee]

If a Christian dies right after sinning, they go to heaven, because all sins past, present, AND FUTURE are forgiven when a person believes in Jesus alone for salvation without adding any of their own works.

Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, all of your sins are forgiven. This includes sins you have committed, and sins that you will commit. So if you truly accept Christ, you are spending eternity in heaven with God.

However, many Christians think: Okay wow, that means I can sin all I want because I'm going to heaven no matter what. This is a very dangerous way of thinking.

If you have truly accepted Christ, then that person would always try to stay away from sin. If a person just goes oh I'm going to heaven no matter what so I can just do whatever, has that person really accepted Christ?

Yes, Christians sin. But if they have truly accepted Christ, they will try to stop sinning, not just think that they can do whatever they want because they're saved.

Kind of like Islam...

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;

I've guessed that you have a question about sin redemption in Christianity, and you assume that murderer will go to heaven without punishment because his sins have been redeemed.

Maybe Mister Eric H or other Christians can give explanation?

Possibly not the answer you are looking for because I feel God works in mysterious ways and beyond my understanding,

Adam and Eve are thrown out of paradise just for eating forbidden fruit. We could all still be in paradise if it wasn’t for them disobeying God. We have to live in this world with all its troubles just because Adam ate from the tree of knowledge.

A man is brought before Mosses for gathering firewood on the Sabbath, after Mosses prays, God says to Mosses, take the man out the camp and stones him to death, just for gathering firewood?

Paul goes out persecuting and killing Christians. He is then struck blind and God changes him, and we know him as St. Paul in the Bible.

Jesus forgives the adulterous women who is about to be stoned to death for her sins.

After being condemned to death, scourged, crowned with thorns and nailed to a cross, Jesus prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

I believe that God was absolutely right and just in all these decisions, but they do not make much sense to me, this confirms that my understanding of God is not that great.

The bottom line is trusting that God is compassionate, just, fair, forgiving and merciful, I do not believe that I deserve salvation for the sins I have committed, I cannot understand how St. Paul the murder would have his sins forgiven. I cannot fully understand how God would forgive a Catholic Murderer, and if so then why not a Muslim murderer or an atheist murderer also.

I have to believe that Jesus died to forgive my sins, if I can be forgiven than I have to hope and pray that all sins of mankind can be forgiven, we are asked to pray for all our enemies as well as friends.

In the spirit of searching for a just, compassionate, merciful and forgiving God

Eric

[Indian Bro]

If a Christian dies right after sinning, they go to heaven, because all sins past, present, AND FUTURE are forgiven when a person believes in Jesus alone for salvation without adding any of their own works.

Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, all of your sins are forgiven. This includes sins you have committed, and sins that you will commit. So if you truly accept Christ, you are spending eternity in heaven with God.

However, many Christians think: Okay wow, that means I can sin all I want because I'm going to heaven no matter what. This is a very dangerous way of thinking.

If you have truly accepted Christ, then that person would always try to stay away from sin. If a person just goes oh I'm going to heaven no matter what so I can just do whatever, has that person really accepted Christ?

Yes, Christians sin. But if they have truly accepted Christ, they will try to stop sinning, not just think that they can do whatever they want because they're saved.

Kind of like Islam...

As-salamu alaykum brother,

Thank you for shedding light on this topic. So according to your post, it would be fair to say that the example I used in the opening post would mean the person would be punished in the Day of Judgement?

Salam 3laikum

[Indian Bro]

Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;




Possibly not the answer you are looking for because I feel God works in mysterious ways and beyond my understanding,

Adam and Eve are thrown out of paradise just for eating forbidden fruit. We could all still be in paradise if it wasn’t for them disobeying God. We have to live in this world with all its troubles just because Adam ate from the tree of knowledge.

A man is brought before Mosses for gathering firewood on the Sabbath, after Mosses prays, God says to Mosses, take the man out the camp and stones him to death, just for gathering firewood?

Paul goes out persecuting and killing Christians. He is then struck blind and God changes him, and we know him as St. Paul in the Bible.

Jesus forgives the adulterous women who is about to be stoned to death for her sins.

After being condemned to death, scourged, crowned with thorns and nailed to a cross, Jesus prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

I believe that God was absolutely right and just in all these decisions, but they do not make much sense to me, this confirms that my understanding of God is not that great.

The bottom line is trusting that God is compassionate, just, fair, forgiving and merciful, I do not believe that I deserve salvation for the sins I have committed, I cannot understand how St. Paul the murder would have his sins forgiven. I cannot fully understand how God would forgive a Catholic Murderer, and if so then why not a Muslim murderer or an atheist murderer also.

I have to believe that Jesus died to forgive my sins, if I can be forgiven than I have to hope and pray that all sins of mankind can be forgiven, we are asked to pray for all our enemies as well as friends.

In the spirit of searching for a just, compassionate, merciful and forgiving God

Eric

As-salamu alaykum,

Thank you for your well-detailed response to my question.

Peace be with you.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you sister harb;

Salam alaykum

The Bible says similar message like the Quran.

DO NOT KILL!

:heated:

I tell a little story from my life. Zionists killed my husband 20 years ago, then my fiance at 2008, I am muslim and pacifist but needed peace to my mind. How I can get revenge?

I was thinking few weeks in my mind and create international campaing as The operation teddy bears - teddies to the kids in The Gaza, whose lost they homes, toys, parents, friends. The Teddies sended to kids via Egypt.

:D Revenge ftom the pacifist. Do good when someone else makes bad to you.

I am so sorry to hear your story, maybe true revenge against hate and killing; would demand that you also send teddies to the Jewish children who have lost their parents to rockets and suicide bombs.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric

[ardianto]

Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;




Possibly not the answer you are looking for because I feel God works in mysterious ways and beyond my understanding,

Adam and Eve are thrown out of paradise just for eating forbidden fruit. We could all still be in paradise if it wasn’t for them disobeying God. We have to live in this world with all its troubles just because Adam ate from the tree of knowledge.

A man is brought before Mosses for gathering firewood on the Sabbath, after Mosses prays, God says to Mosses, take the man out the camp and stones him to death, just for gathering firewood?

Paul goes out persecuting and killing Christians. He is then struck blind and God changes him, and we know him as St. Paul in the Bible.

Jesus forgives the adulterous women who is about to be stoned to death for her sins.

After being condemned to death, scourged, crowned with thorns and nailed to a cross, Jesus prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

I believe that God was absolutely right and just in all these decisions, but they do not make much sense to me, this confirms that my understanding of God is not that great.

The bottom line is trusting that God is compassionate, just, fair, forgiving and merciful, I do not believe that I deserve salvation for the sins I have committed, I cannot understand how St. Paul the murder would have his sins forgiven. I cannot fully understand how God would forgive a Catholic Murderer, and if so then why not a Muslim murderer or an atheist murderer also.

I have to believe that Jesus died to forgive my sins, if I can be forgiven than I have to hope and pray that all sins of mankind can be forgiven, we are asked to pray for all our enemies as well as friends.

In the spirit of searching for a just, compassionate, merciful and forgiving God

Eric

Greeting and peace be with you too.

Thank you very much for your explanation. I hope can work together to build peace and tolerance among people of the world.

Ardianto

[Iceee]

As-salamu alaykum brother,

Thank you for shedding light on this topic. So according to your post, it would be fair to say that the example I used in the opening post would mean the person would be punished in the Day of Judgement?

Salam 3laikum

Salaam.

Think of your example again. Is it similar to a man who has pre-marital sex?
Both your example and the example I mentioned seem similar. Both people committed sin.

Your example: One of the 10 Commandments in Christianity (Thou Shall Not Kill)
My Example; In Islam, you can only have sex with your spouse (Fornication)

In Islam, we forgive. Same with Christianity. We forgive once we repent for our sins.
Only God Can Judge.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Indian Bro;

Not a single leaf falls from the trees of the Earth without the permission of Allah سبحانه وتعالى

When I read your signature I smile, very recently I helped a disabled man rake up the leaves in the garden of a day centre. I lost count at around fifty wheelbarrow loads of leaves, but Allah would know the exact amount. All those leaves would be as a grain of sand compared to all the leaves that fall on Earth every year.

Blessings

Eric

[May Ayob]

^ I envy you, I wish I had the chance to do something like that, it must be very rewarding.

[sister herb]

Greetings and peace be with you sister harb;



I am so sorry to hear your story, maybe true revenge against hate and killing; would demand that you also send teddies to the Jewish children who have lost their parents to rockets and suicide bombs.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric

Peace with you

Half of teddies sended via Mavi Marmara ship but Jews kidnapped it.

Hopely Jewish kids got them. I think that they were confiscated and burnt later.

:phew

[MustafaMc]

I believe that we err when we say, "This person is surely of those of the Hellfire" and of another that, "He is surely among the people of Paradise." As has been mentioned, God is our judge, but I believe we can base our opinions on what we believe God will judge as evidenced by the books we hold as God's Word.

[truthseeker63]

Christians can still sin and go to hell says the Bible.

[Indian Bro]

Christians can still sin and go to hell says the Bible.

As-salamu alaykum,

Could you please provide a reference for this claim?

Salam 3laikum

[ardianto]

As-salamu alaykum,

Could you please provide a reference for this claim?

Salam 3laikum

Wa'alaikum salam.

I never read Bible because I'm not interested, but I'm familiar with Christian people. Some people in my mother family are Christians, also I have few Christian friends. They believe if they die with full of sins they would go to hell.

[truthseeker63]

Christians say that Christians who sin are not Christians at all.

[truthseeker63]

Calling Yourself a Christian doesn't Make You a Christian


People need to understand that simply going to church and calling yourself a
Christian doesn't make you any more a Christian than standing on a runway makes
you an airplane! You are a Christian because you have put your faith in the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the ONLY ONE who died for your sins!!!

http://www.liveprayer.com/ddarchive3.cfm?id=4712

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Iceee;

In Islam, we forgive. Same with Christianity. We forgive once we repent for our sins.
Only God Can Judge.

We are all created by the same God and repentence is at the heart of the Christian message also.

Blessings

Eric

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

People need to understand that simply going to church and calling yourself a
Christian doesn't make you any more a Christian than standing on a runway makes
you an airplane!

:D And I always wanted to be an airplane, now I shall have to stand at Cape Kennedy and become a rocket.

:hmm:

[MustafaMc]

We are all created by the same God and repentence is at the heart of the Christian message also.

Greetings of peace to you Eric H,

How does repentence and asking for forgiveness fit in with the Cross and redemption? Wasn't Jesus' death on the cross a redeeming sacrifice that paid the sin debt of mankind? If a debt has been paid by someone else then it wasn't really forgiven, was it?

Why do Catholics go to a priest for confessional saying to him, "Father, forgive me for I have sinned"? If a parishoner asks a priest for forgiveness, how does the Crucifixion fit into the equation? Isn't forgiveness of sins a right exclusively for God?

[Amigo]

Hi MustafaMC

How does repentence and asking for forgiveness fit in with the Cross and redemption? Wasn't Jesus' death on the cross a redeeming sacrifice that paid the sin debt of mankind? If a debt has been paid by someone else then it wasn't really forgiven, was it?

if a friend has something against you he can not pay your debt, it is only a friend who have forgiven you who can also pay your debt. A friend can forgive you and still not pay your debt as well for many reasons. So forgiveness and debt payment are two things.

1. everyone have an account in heaven. This accounts shows our good deeds and bad ones.
2. every sin is an offense against the Truth (- Jesus); this means every sin participates in hurting and killing Jesus. This gets registered on each person's account. Also by 'debt' we means what must be done to repair the damage done by the sin.
3. On the Cross Jesus forgave those who killed him- that is everyone according to point (2); however, no one is forgiven without specifically asking for it, so this forgiveness was 'banked' on a special account.
4. by rising from the death he repaired all damages done by all sins; however, this is too is done when requested, so while waiting for the asking....it is 'banked'
5. whenever we admit our true sins and repent them truly,( we are 'dealing' with the the Truth - (2) and (3)...), the Mercy which was banked for us is applied to our account, and we are forgiven.
6. last, for every sin, there have to be reparation. Man hurts and kills Truth whenever he sins. However, Truth is not vanquished. Truth rose from death: Jesus rose from death and reparation for everysin was done in him. This too is banked and one day it will be applied to all accounts on which sins were forgiven. we can not fix the damage we caused because it is so great, however, we can participate paying our debts in doing what we can, Jesus does the rest out of his pure generosity...and this is why we also say that we are redeemed, because we do not and can not redeem ourselves.

The priest is like the banker, he fix my accounts the same way a bank representative does, but he is himself not the one who banked salvation for me, but he does perform exchange according to the ID given. Jesus gave them the job to forgive sins this way.


Redemptions means making use of something which is no longer userful.
When a car goes through an accident and gets damaged, we say that it is redeemed if an other use is found for it or its parts.

Man is damaged in many way by sins that he appears useless, so some people decide to simply kill him or he may even think that he can kill himself...perhaps for some 'big' cause so he can 'redeem' (make himself useful in other ways) himself.

When Jesus forgive us and raises us from the death (of sin: first resurrection), he gave us an other purpose. There is a girl who was a prostitute, Jesus saved her and redeemed her, now she helps save other prostitutes from prostitution or prevent girls from finding themsleves in prostitution in the first place. This is redemption. By human standard she should die for all her sins. But by God standard, she was already dead in sins, so God saved her from the death of sin, and gave her a life. Men would solve nothing in killing her (corpse), but God is repairing her damages by restoring her and getting her to testify against hew own former ways.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

This is not originally islamic text but I believe what is says:

For the love of God is broader
Than the measure of our mind;
And the heart of the Eternal
Is most wonderfully kind.

But we make His love too narrow
By false limits of our own;
And we magnify His strictness
With a zeal He will not own.

We should be very carefull when we start to think have the Christians afterlife or not (when we are not even absolutely sure if we have). And Allah knows best.

:nervous:

[MustafaMc]

Amigo, what of what you wrote can be referenced to words that Jesus spoke? How does it jive with Matthew 18:23-35?

[Amigo]

Amigo, what of what you wrote can be referenced to words that Jesus spoke? How does it jive with Matthew 18:23-35?

The connection in on Truth of Jesus redemption journey:
With Jesus suffering, death, and resurrection, there is sin, forgiveness and restoration.
In the story Jesus spoke he wanted to illustrate that. When the lord let the servant go, he did not mean to let him go and continue as before, harsh to his own servants... He meant to let him go as in the sense of restoration: his family was set to be sold, but it was restored to him and he was given a chance to start over again.
but because his heart had not changed, he committed an other sin, and he got punished for it by being delivered to torturers.

So fear of punishment is not enough, without a change of heart, we are still in the realm of sin and punishment.
Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but it is not the end... I think the end is the desire for restoration, desire for a new heart.

It seems that redemption was delivered throug the falling down and begging, but while his family may have received it, the servant blocked hiw own by his wicked heart.

[Muhaba]

If a Christian dies right after sinning, they go to heaven, because all sins past, present, AND FUTURE are forgiven when a person believes in Jesus alone for salvation without adding any of their own works.

Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, all of your sins are forgiven. This includes sins you have committed, and sins that you will commit. So if you truly accept Christ, you are spending eternity in heaven with God.

However, many Christians think: Okay wow, that means I can sin all I want because I'm going to heaven no matter what. This is a very dangerous way of thinking.

If you have truly accepted Christ, then that person would always try to stay away from sin. If a person just goes oh I'm going to heaven no matter what so I can just do whatever, has that person really accepted Christ?

Yes, Christians sin. But if they have truly accepted Christ, they will try to stop sinning, not just think that they can do whatever they want because they're saved.

Kind of like Islam...

Not at all like Islam.

In Islam, when you convert to Islam, your past sins are forgiven but once you're a Muslim you should abstain from sinning. Sins that don't involve another person are forgiven through repentance and praying but sins that involve the rights of another person are not forgiven until the wrong is corrected. So if a Muslim kills someone deliberately, he will not be forgiven just by repenting. If a muslim steals from another person or takes what's someone else's right, he won't be forgiven until he returns it.

Do not sin with the thought that you'll repent and that will wipe the sins becuase in Surah Al-Nisa it is stated that those sins are forgive which a person does in ignorance.

[MustafaMc]

Amigo, I have trouble understanding how you get the meaning you do from Biblical verses. The passage simply means to me that if we expect forgiveness from God for our multitude of sins, then we should likewise forgive those who injure us. This concept is identical to what is said in the Lord's Prayer.

Often times I feel that you are speaking a different language that I can't comprehend while using English words I do understand that render an twisted, incomprehensible meaning to me. Is God the author of this confusion?

[Amigo]

The passage simply means to me that if we expect forgiveness from God for our multitude of sins, then we should likewise forgive those who injure us. This concept is identical to what is said in the Lord's Prayer.

That's what I said; the servant blocked his own forgiveness. he was not forgiven because he did not forgive. The fact that he did not forgive proves that he was not sincere in his asking for mercy.

[Logikon]

therefore all Christians enter heaven irrespective of what they do on this Earth. Is this true?

That is false.

The Christian belief is:
If a person is evil then he is not likely he will go to heaven but ultimately it is god's choice.
If a person is good, he is likely to go to heaven but ultimately it is god's choice.

[Logikon]

Wasn't Jesus' death on the cross a redeeming sacrifice that paid the sin debt of mankind?

As I was taught it:

Jesus suffered for our sins. If you commit fewer sins he suffers less.

So, every time you sin it is as though you are a Roman soldier hammering a nail into Christ's hand. So, don't sin!