To all atheists

[Indian Bro]

As-salamu alaykum,

I would like the atheists of this board to view this entire video if you have time, it's 15 minutes long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28AFSHnoGT8


May Allah (s.w.t.) guide us all inshAllah.


Peace be with you

[Pygoscelis]

I mean no offence in saying this, but I find the singing / recitation very annoying (it sounds whiny to me) so can't really sit through a vid like that.

[IAmZamzam]

It's all right, I'm not offended--I always find that kind of chant annoying too. I can't stand multiphonic throat singing either. Maybe it's a cultural bias, a matter of what you grew up with.

[titus]

I tried also. Couldn't get past the singing. It seems that out of a 15 minute video there is about 3 or 4 minutes of audio that I can understand.

Here is a written version.

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[Tyrion]

I mean no offence in saying this, but I find the singing / recitation very annoying (it sounds whiny to me) so can't really sit through a vid like that.

Honestly, a lot of Muslims would say (or think) the same. It's like music in the sense that you've gotta find someone who's voice and style fit your tastes.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

I always find that kind of chant annoying too.

Honestly, a lot of Muslims would say (or think) the same.

I don't know many Muslims that would find any recitation of the Qur'an annoying. There may be recitation styles that they personally prefer over others, but as Muslims, it's best not to call any recitation of the Qur'an, annoying.

And Allah knows best.

[IAmZamzam]

Recitations don't have to be done in that style, though, and it was the style we were talking about. I was merely trying to reassure Pygoscelis that there was no need to be nervous about offending anybody--at least as far as I was concerned. Different people like different things. As the French say, "À chacun son goût." ("To each his own taste." Or to put it with the variant my old French teacher grew up with in Versailles, "Tastes and colors are not up for discussion.")

[Abu Loren]

I don't know many Muslims that would find any recitation of the Qur'an annoying. There may be recitation styles that they personally prefer over others, but as Muslims, it's best not to call any recitation of the Qur'an, annoying.

Right on sis. Also Sheikh Mishary Rashid Al Afasy is one of the most famous Qari in the world. I wonder if the Muslims here who are knocking him and his recitation ever listen to the recitation of the Holy Qur'an in Arabic?

[IAmZamzam]

Don't put words in my mouth, I'm not knocking any people! And I have at least heard audio recordings of individual surahs being recited, yes. I just prefer it when they not sound all whiny and warbly. It's fine with me if you don't. Can I control what my ears find pleasing?

[Hulk]

Any voice whatever their condition is, that recites the Quran with sincerity is beautiful. If I don't see the beauty in it then the fault is in me..

[Muslimlearner]

I accepted Islam without reading or listening to even one Surah, subhan-Allah..Allah Karim!
Even if you dislike the recitation you still can seek the Truth and understand the purpose of life (smile).

[Abu Loren]

Any voice whatever their condition is, that recites the Quran with sincerity is beautiful. If I don't see the beauty in it then the fault is in me..

Exactly bro...what's being recited is the words of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

[Logikon]

Here is a written version.

It is an extract from the Koran.

Essentially it says people such as me have been exposed to the message. I must now believe or I will be punished.

What a terrible god!

[Hulk]

It is an extract from the Koran.

Essentially it says people such as me have been exposed to the message. I must now believe or I will be punished.

What a terrible god!

I will have to request for a mod to change your username

[Iceee]

I will have to request for a mod to change your username

Why change his username?

[Abu Loren]

Essentially it says people such as me have been exposed to the message. I must now believe or I will be punished.
What a terrible god!

As'alaamu Alaikkum

This life is a test my friend and once you know the Truth and deny it then there are consequences. Like anything else there is a reward for disobedience and punishment for disobedience, very simple logic. You were created to worship the One True God. Why? Because it's His prerogative being the maker of all things. He is the potter and we are the clay.

So knowing all this and you still want to disobey then you must know that your final destination is hell? The thing is arrogant people do not like this situation, they want to be in control, but alas only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala in in control. Hence the reason that we all must submit (be muslims).

[Al-Mufarridun]

It is an extract from the Koran.

Essentially it says people such as me have been exposed to the message. I must now believe or I will be punished.

What a terrible god!

You reap what you sow, that is a logical consequence you can agree with right?

If you hear the warning and refuse to take head, who is to blame?
If you saw the stop sign and refuse to stop, who is to blame?

You believe that the Quran is 'nothing but stories of old', and then complain of the warnings mentioned in it?

[Al-Mufarridun]

It's all right, I'm not offended--I always find that kind of chant annoying too.

So regarding this recitation of the Qur'an, your Qalb is in agreement with The Qalb of an Atheist?

[Pygoscelis]

As'alaamu Alaikkum

This life is a test my friend and once you know the Truth and deny it then there are consequences. Like anything else there is a reward for disobedience and punishment for disobedience, very simple logic. You were created to worship the One True God. Why? Because it's His prerogative being the maker of all things. He is the potter and we are the clay.

So knowing all this and you still want to disobey then you must know that your final destination is hell? The thing is arrogant people do not like this situation, they want to be in control, but alas only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala in in control. Hence the reason that we all must submit (be muslims).

This desire to be a slave and to place obedience above morality is what alarms me the most about the Abrahamic religions.

You believe that the Quran is 'nothing but stories of old', and then complain of the warnings mentioned in it?

It is not the stories that are alarming, it is the praise of them and action taken on them. It wouldn't matter what books said if nobody was motivated to act on them and if attitudes about justice and morality wasn't formed through them. It is the actions and moral stances the believers adopt from the stories that cause concern, not the stories themselves.

When I see somebody mistake obedience to power for morality, or endorse infinite punishment for finite wrongdoing, or endorse other things I find blatantly immoral or authoritarian, I will be alarmed. It does not matter to me if this comes from religion or elsewhere (ie, nationalism, etc)

[Abu Loren]

This desire to be a slave and to place obedience above morality is what alarms me the most about the Abrahamic religions.

Therein lies the conundrum my friend. You will never understand full submission.

[IAmZamzam]

So regarding this recitation of the Qur'an, your Qalb is in agreement with The Qalb of an Atheist?

If I could have taken away reputation points more than once for that post, I would have. I explained what I meant about three times already and if you still don't get it by now, I give up. It's like trying in vain to get someone to understand that you're not attacking his whole entire being just by saying that you happen, through forces entirely, helplessly beyond your control, to find the music which the popular band he likes produces displeasing to your ear, and that this is not a judgment on anyone. I've realized lately that I shouldn't be drinking tea and have been trying to wean myself off of caffeine, and in case you can't tell it's not having a nice effect on my mood. I don't need your misunderstandings and accusations making things worse.

[Pygoscelis]

Therein lies the conundrum my friend. You will never understand full submission.

I certainly hope not.

[Al-Mufarridun]

It is not the stories that are alarming, it is the praise of them and action taken on them. It wouldn't matter what books said if nobody was motivated to act on them and if attitudes about justice and morality wasn't formed through them. It is the actions and moral stances the believers adopt from the stories that cause concern, not the stories themselves.

When I see somebody mistake obedience to power for morality, or endorse infinite punishment for finite wrongdoing, or endorse other things I find blatantly immoral or authoritarian, I will be alarmed. It does not matter to me if this comes from religion or elsewhere (ie, nationalism, etc)

What is far more alarming is that some mistake their obedience, submission, their enslavement to their ego for freedom, liberation, enlightenment or even for morality.

[جوري]

So regarding this recitation of the Qur'an, your Qalb is in agreement with The Qalb of an Atheist?

What does :Allah::swt: tell us in the noble book?

Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:125]

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Faman yuridi Allahu an yahdiyahu yashrah sadrahu lilislami waman yurid an yudillahu yajAAal sadrahu dayyiqan harajan kaannama yassaAAAAadu fee alssamai kathalika yajAAalu Allahu alrrijsa AAala allatheena la yuminoona

6:125 Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

Of course I am never surprised when an atheist feels annoyed by anything Islamic or any kaffir for that matter.. They run away from God as the devil ran from Umar Ibn Ilkhtaab. And sob7an Allah that verse is not only truthful but miraculous in many ways for it also describes high altitude hypoxia (although that is a tangent) - Nothing in the psychology of man or his wondering mind isn't addressed in the noble book if only men of understanding would take heed!

We're also told in the noble book:

Waqad nazzala AAalaykum fee alkitabi an itha samiAAtum ayati Allahi yukfaru biha wayustahzao biha fala taqAAudoo maAAahum hatta yakhoodoo fee hadeethin ghayrihi innakum ithan mithluhum inna Allaha jamiAAu almunafiqeena waalkafireena fee jahannama jameeAAan

4:140 Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell:-

as such I so hate to cast pearls before swine and surely there's a reason the hypocrites are in an even lower pit of hell than kaffirs.

Question we should ask ourselves is, ''Do we need more Muslims''?


Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) [5:105]

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Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo AAalaykum anfusakum la yadurrukum man dalla itha ihtadaytum ila Allahi marjiAAukum jameeAAan fayunabbiokum bima kuntum taAAmaloona

5:105 O ye who believe! Guard your own souls: If ye follow (right) guidance, no hurt can come to you from those who stray. the goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of all that ye do.


As for the rep is it matters and I could rep you twice the positive I would!

:w:

[جوري]

This desire to be a slave and to place obedience above morality is what alarms me the most about the Abrahamic religions.

Obedience is ingrained in mankind it is a matter of transference!
Do read Cialdini's six principles of influence.
In fact what is alarming is what folks are willing to do with such programming to serve such principles as reciprocity, and obligation to authority is far more frightening than any good or allegedly bad (per human terms) in the name of God!
When one speaks of God they've already chosen the higher grounds on the account that whatever they do good or bad may not have immediate consequence or per atheists consequence at all. But what people are willing to do for Govts. authority figures and social constraints is frankly appalling!

best,

[IAmZamzam]

This thread is getting more and more obnoxious and appalling by the post. I can't believe my eyes. All I did was say that a certain type of performance--not The Qur'an itself, not the words, not the content, just a particular style of speaking it, or ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER, INCLUDING NON-ISLAMIC OR SECULAR CONTENT IN THE SAME SORT OF CADENCE AND INTONATIONS, SUCH AS FOR EXAMPLE MULTITONIC TIBETAN THROAT SINGING--is something which I happen to find, completely and utterly against my will, by a neurological accident of birth which I have no control over whatsoever, to find displeasing to my ear. I love recitals of The Qur'an when they're done in a different style, just not when they're done that way. That's all I said. And look. Just look.

Just look.

I get called a hypocrite and one of the lowest inhabitants of The Fire, worse than a kafir.

Wow.

There's no point in reporting anyone or giving negative rep points or anything. You people's irrational, foaming-at-the-mouth, borderline fanatical refusal to listen to one single thing I've said speaks for itself. It's like I've just been sitting here saying, "Taco taco taco taco." This is what I hate about message boards. People never listen to me. You're all smart enough to understand this all perfectly well. I know you are. It's just that I've touched a nerve and you're turning into a bunch of animals. Not one syllable, not one keystroke has registered at all. I could use sock puppets to clarify my point and you'd still come away from this thinking that I've been insulting the words of my Lord. I give up. Go ahead and be irrational and think your brother in the faith an unbeliever. Just do it quietly. If only for the sake of us all not going around in circles anymore. I'm sorry, are you enjoying this any more than I am??

[IAmZamzam]

Oh, and as for you, lady (I can't type out your name on this keyboard), you're going on my "ignore" list. I hope that some day somebody pricks you ever so lightly with a pin and drains you of all the gallons of venom and bile stored up inside but until then I'm afraid I'm trying too hard to become a better person to let someone as nasty as you become a hindrance to that effort by making me say things I'd really, really regret. Blocked.

[جوري]

“A true believer is one with whom others feel secure. One who returns love for hatred.”
not sure how that reconciles with:

foaming-at-the-mouth

you're turning into a bunch of animals

type thing.
Hey if the first snafu was a misunderstanding, we can only chuckle at the second!

[IAmZamzam]

Say what you want, sweetie. I can't see a word of it now.

[Hulk]

All I did was say that a certain type of performance--not The Qur'an itself, not the words, not the content, just a particular style of speaking it, or ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER, INCLUDING SECULAR CONTENT IN THE SAME SORT OF CADENCE AND INTONATIONS, SUCH AS FOR EXAMPLE MULTITONIC TIBETAN THROAT SINGING--is something which I happen to find, completely and utterly against my will, by a neurological accident of birth which I have no control over whatsoever, to find displeasing to my ear. I love recitals of The Qur'an when they're done in a different style, just not when they're done that way. That's all I said. And look. Just look.

Brother, imagine a wife cooking for her husband and then he tells her that it tastes horrible. Not because of the ingredients but because of the combination and quantity of ingredients. Sure, he is entitled to that opinion but do you think that it is right for him to describe it to her as horrible? Better yet, do you think it would be right for him to say it in front of guests?

Not the best of analogies but I hope you get the point. Maybe the way it was recited really doesn't suit well with your ears but out of respect for the intention(niyyah) behind the action(amal), don't you think there are better ways to express yourself if necessary.

[جوري]

You're not the subject of interest & it doesn't aggrieve me what you read or don't read- I don't invest my emotions here when every other day is a debacle!
Az-Zumar (The Groups)[39:41]

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Inna anzalna AAalayka alkitaba lilnnasi bialhaqqi famani ihtada falinafsihi waman dalla fainnama yadillu AAalayha wama anta AAalayhim biwakeelin

39:41 Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.

[IAmZamzam]

If I were talking to the reciter, and actually calling it horrible, then maybe you'd have a point. Maybe my original post was a little strongly worded but it was meant to soothe someone who felt a little socially awkward, was wondering if he was offending people's religious and cultural sensibilities. I was telling him, "It okay: I'm a Muslim too and I feel the same way. Your ears can't control what they like and what they don't." I was acting in compassion. I was offering someone comfort. Compare that what she was doing above.

The chef here is Allah. The recipe can never really be prepared properly by anyone else. All anybody can ever do is try their best and I was never knocking anyone's effort, only saying that some efforts aren't to my personal liking and I can't control that. When it comes to me I think the best way to get at the Book is to just sit and read it quietly anyway but to each his own. I have no problem with everyone having their own preferences, but nor should they have any problem with me having mine too.

[جوري]

Compare that what she was doing above.

'tis compassionate indeed to describe Muslims as animals and frothing at the mouth . If compassion is so selective & a difficult balance to maintain then perhaps a non-effort at all would have been better!

“Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should speak a good word or remain silent. And whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should show hospitality to his neighbor. And whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should show hospitality to his guest.” [ Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim ]

[IAmZamzam]

I hope she's not still trying to talk to me.

Well, there's no point in hanging around in this thread any longer. I don't know how many different ways I can explain to you people the same thing over and over again. If anyone chooses not to get it, they choose not to get it. It's weird what touches a nerve sometimes.

[جوري]

My original post addresses Br. Almufurridun and my subsequent is a further elucidation to the disparity in the posts thereafter. Touching a nerve is indeed obvious and can only be the natural conclusion of one who draws a personal offense from Quranic verses. As for there being no point in hanging around, one can't help but wonder why one would constantly attempt to draw our attention to the fact that he's ignoring us. Or that this is all irrelevant?

Delusions of grandiosity deserve medical attention not a catharsis on a forum!

[Delphi]

I think it is beautiful and poetically powerful, but it relies on a belief in an all-powerful god, and NOT the one I've been brought up traditionally by my culture to believe in - so, while I think it is interesting, I do not believe in it. Personally i'm a sucker for Gregorian plainchant.

If I did believe in an Ahbramic religion, it would be Christianity. Christ's message of love, self sacrifice and tolerance seems to me the most logically and consistently clear.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I hope she's not still trying to talk to me.

Well, there's no point in hanging around in this thread any longer. I don't know how many different ways I can explain to you people the same thing over and over again. If anyone chooses not to get it, they choose not to get it. It's weird what touches a nerve sometimes.

It certainly is weird what touches a nerve sometimes. She wasn't even talking to you and you went absolutely ballistic for no reason. It was a misunderstanding on your part, and I think you owe her an apology.

Regarding the OP, I'd be surprised if you could find many atheists (or other non-Muslims) who would have the patience to sit through that for 15 minutes.

I didn't actually mind the singing too much, but then I'm someone who happens to enjoy Tuvan throat singing, so perhaps that makes a difference. The tone of the man's voice is quite pleasant, but I do wish he would get on with it. The scale he is using is interesting in its use of microtones, but the lack of harmonic, rhythmic or textural variety makes it fairly dull as a sustained listening experience, to my ears anyway.

Plus of course, the content of the surah is a straight threat of hellfire to non-believers. It uses the same logic as a person who tells you about all their marvellous achievements and then instructs you to give him all your money or he'll burn down your house. You'd think an omniscient being would be able to come up with a slightly more intelligent argument than that.

Peace