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Jedi_Mindset
02-13-2013, 09:36 PM
Before he got killed by a resistance group in iraq named islamic army in iraq or IAI. The reason i post this is because many US soldiers are waking up to the fact that these wars are a fraud unfortunately it is too late for them when they are in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Dear Mom and Dad,
I am so glad I could send you my third Christmas greetings letter, and I hope it finds you in good health… God, I wish I was there with you right now, just sitting around the fireplace or engaging in conversation as we sit in front of the dinner table around this mouth-watering turkey in this blessed night.
And I hope that my letter would get to you in time … And so that you know, all my colleagues over here sends their warmest greetings to their parents as well.
I am sure you are wondering whether “Lee” is alright? And how is he managing his third year in Iraq?
In fact, my third year over here differs a lot from the previous two years, and it’s no secret that I’m a bit over my head and just can’t concentrate any more.
God I miss Florida so much, my hometown Sanford, the people, and the shiny beaches of Florida, specially the eastern coast. Do you by any chance know that there is no sea over here?!
I surly didn’t know either! I thought I was going to see clear water and gold sand wherever I turned my head, as that is what I know about the Arab lands and that’s what I saw when I set foot in Kuwait before I join my unit in Iraq.
Ahhhh … This brings back the memories of my first days in here … It’s been a long time indeed, I remember … I was stationed in one of the palaces which belonged to Saddam … I felt like a prince!!! Everybody did as well!!! How Ironic?!
Everybody was jumping with joy too, you can see that in the faces of everybody in the palace and at the hotel which I was transferred to later. Everybody was showing off the souvenirs they’ve collected for their trip back home as evidence of their heroic acts in the battlefield, like the helmet of a republican guard, or the pistol of a top official, or a plucked out portrait from of the palace walls. I remember one reporter that showed me a gilded machine gun MP-5, which he said was one of Saddam’s personal belongings, and that he will be offering it for sale in a New York auction after 15 years. He also told me that there are many other priceless pieces now in possession of soldiers and officers, describing the situation as if they found the treasure of Ali-Baba.
Everything was so easy at first, and it seemed like we did our jobtoo soon. I remember one of the reporters asking me about our tasks back then, and my answer was fairly simple as our missions were all “clean”, like guarding Ministries and Banks from robbers (with the exception of those of gilded machine guns and antiquities), and also collecting weapons from the many abandoned military barracks and bases of the ex-Iraqi army, also the supervision of arms demolishment and vehicle dismantling in pre-made dumps, and lastly supervising the training of officers and soldiers of the new security forces.
Dear Dad, I always wondered where the America’s tax payers money is spent?, and when I came here I immediately knew the answer … However I don’t think all this money would be spent like this if it weren’t for the confidence and certainty by the military leadership of their capability of overthrowing Saddam’s regime… However, what they did not anticipate was the aftermath of this takeover.
On a personal level … I started to sense trouble when unidentified attackers targeted us and as we spent the rest of the days breaking in houses trying to catch them. During one of these nights, I remember how we broke into a house, and my colleagues Mathew, Parry and Douglas started smashing the house, and hitting the house owner and his young son with the butt of their guns until they both faded all because they couldn’t understand us. As I stood there speechless, only to wake up at the voice of my friend Parry saying: “It seems like the old guy is dead”, and eventually we found nothing.
And for all that, the attacks against us naturally increased, to a level where it became impossible to go out in your vehicle without having your patrol under attack at least once.
In light of such incidents the violence and counter violence started to erupt, and I admit that we have used excessive force a lot, to a level in which the people started to turn against us … and crimes committed by our soldiers during break-ins started to emerge such as burglary, harassment, raping and random man-slaughtering.
The strength of attacks intensified day after day, making it even hard to sleep because of the mortar shells.
I remember that day in the military base when we were asked to head for an auditorium to attend a meeting and a presentation for some new tactics briefing.
We went there and in the way I saw Wilson staring at the Humvees and I wondered why? But when I saw the door of the Humvee with some shrapnel and bullet marks in it I told him let’s go, we’ll be late.
As we stepped in the commander started to welcome us, and everything was alright, but nearly after ten minutes we heard two successive explosions outside of the auditorium, everybody panicked, and then we realized we are being attacked by mortar shells, and one has hit the auditorium and was on fire. There were some wounded, and Wilson told me, here they are welcoming us as well, it looks like the curses of Iraq have just begunThis was the first time I saw something like that.
The night came, and we were sitting with a group of friends, one said that more than twenty were either wounded or killed when the two rockets hit, and I said to myself: My God, if they were two inches closer to us we would’ve been among the dead by now.
We went sleeping and Wilson told me, imagine if we were hit again! I told him, this might be our last sleep.
I couldn’t sleep that night, I was thinking about home, Mom, and my girlfriend, work was pretty good, and my life was calm, why am I here? I thought a lot of an answer until I felt asleep.
The next day, we were assigned a guard mission for a Halliburton convey. We left the base, and that was the first time I saw the streets in Iraq, we went out and I mounted the Humvee’s tower. We arrived at the convey which was coming from Jordan, there were a lot of trucks and we were driving along side to protect them and keep Iraqis cars away. My mind went astray for a second, and I thought, this is a Halliburton and KBR convey, which has contracts in hundreds of millions with the army, and we are here to protect it and take hits on their behalf. It is the vice president owned Halliburton. Oh my God, they are sending us to war, and then invest their money on us.
Suddenly a group of Iraqi cars showed up, the commanding officer asked me to order them to move away, I got back to my senses and asked them to move, and they did.
A few minutes later, a sound of an explosion came from the back, and when I looked I saw one of the trucks on fire, as one of the privates was shouting “IED, IED” … which stands for Improvised Explosive Device … that’s a hard number in Iraq.
A few seconds later we were taken by surprise with bullet showers and RPG launchers as another IED exploded, it seemed that we were stuck in a trap. I then started to fire back at the direction of the armed men, which we couldn’t see, because you can't tell from which direction is the fire coming. Then the armed men left as we no longer were hit.
Two trucks were burnt, these IEDs were supposed to be our share, but thank God.
Our mission was over, and went back to our base.
It was another sad day, in which I saw death again. Until when will I stay in this hell?
Why are we even here? The people hate us, and they still don’t want our presence, a lot of the kids throw stones at us. We didn’t find the weapons of mass destruction which they talked about, even worse, our forces have used it against civilians in Fallujah. And even after capturing Saddam, the attacks are increasing daily.
Here are the sons of America, falling everyday, each have a family, friends and kids waiting for their return.
In the first three years 2314 soldiers were killed, in the very same period 1864 were killed in Vietnam.
Can’t we learn from our mistakes?
I started to regret the day I enlisted for the army, and I remember that awful day when the Pentagon recruiters came to enlist us, and how I was convinced by what they said. I was told the Pentagon spends 2.5 Billion dollars yearly to recruit us, develop computer games for us to play, and then a few months later would send us to practice it on the battlefield. My God, wasn’t this money better off spent in New Orleans or even on the poor in the South, or for HIV prevention campaigns.
But that guys talk was full of promises, the scholarship, and job training, and everything they promised allured us to enlist. But here I am in Iraq, sleeping as my biggest dream is not larger than seeing the dawn of the next day, and that my life won’t end with a sharpen of a bloody mortar shell.
Besides, I didn’t come here to participate in causing destruction, I though we will be helping these people re-build their country, but I never heard from any senior officer or even top officials and politicians in the media talking about re-construction!!!
More to the point, I’m anti-war myself …
I only wish that I stood more firmly behind that. I didn’t know that coming over here would change all my future plans … Because I never anticipated nor imagined that I would come here to simply lose my life.
I don’t think this is what any American wants, to travel thus far only to tragically lose his or her life for nothing.
The future was ahead of me … I have planned differently for it, and I don’t know how my coming over here would have benefited my people, sarcastically most of my hometown folks don’t even know where Iraq is located on a map.
Why don’t we just leave these people alone? If Saddam was a dictator then our neighbor Castro is a dictator too.
Moreover, where are all the piled weapons of mass destruction?!I joined the army and went to Iraq to make sure that these weapons will not be used against my own people, but we didn’t find any! So why are we here today?
Is my government bluffing? Is the president bluffing?
Oh my God, looks like I won’t be sleeping tonight as well, as I just heard the siren go on, and we are being instructed to go into the fortified bases because there are some mortars coming our way.
Patrols all day, IEDs and bullets from unknown locations, and after all of this physical and mental stress we can't even sleep for an hour during the night …
The alarm went off, and so did my anxiety, I’ll try to sleep for a few hours, to start fresh for a next day filled with surprises. Tomorrow I’ll try not to be the gunner, I won’t stand at the Humvee tower, because you can excuse yourself from a night shift with a few dollars, and with more dollars you can skip the Humvee tower watch, which makes you an easy prey for the snipers and IED shrapnel … But still, the Marijuana rolled cigarettes are the rare currency capable of buying and changing anything.
The drugs goes all around in here, and we have those who sneak it in our base orderly, its business is prospering, and the gangs are monopolizing it … Yes, gangs, don’t feel strange … Exactly like the Latinos influence and control over the markets of drugs and prostitution in Florida. My dormitory for example is under the GDN gang’s control, and no other competitor is allowed in.
Anyways, I feel fortunate as everybody here loves the GDN, and they respect and fear its mother gang the Folk Nation.
It is the dawn of a new day, we went out to the city for our everyday patrol, it was a Friday, we found a crowd by one of the mosques, there were some very angry people protesting and holding signs in English that read: Go Home, We Don’t Want You In Iraq. I remembered those days in which I was participating in such anti-war protests, I was one of the 11 Million who protested in America against the war, but nobody listened to us, in America the cradle of democracy!, and the president even described us as focus groups!
I looked at those protestants, whom are supposed to be happy with big smiles in their faces, and are supposed to be throwing us with flowers and candy just like the president said. But they were right in what their doing. Because the president promised Iraq to be the best country in the region, and the world to be safer, and that Iraqis would lead a life of democracy and freedom which they were deprived of, and that we’ll reconstruct their country. But what happened was quite the opposite, no one is safe, the basic necessities of life are not available, in addition to what the reckless soldiers are doing to Iraqis such as the torturing and humiliation we all saw in Abu Graib, which only shows part of the big picture. What an ugly world is this.
In our way back we saw death once again, when an IED exploded at the Humvee in front of us. I saw it fly up and flip on its side killing a soldier and wounding the rest. And I said oh my God, what if our Humvee was a few meters ahead instead of that Humvee. Oh God it's hell in here, if you don’t get hit and killed then you’ll be living to wait for your turn. This phobia which you live in is even more damaging.
We went back to our ominous base, and in that day they were holding a funeral service for the dead soldier, we all stood in sadness and grief. His boots and rifle were upside down, hanged on it was his helmet which didn’t protect him from the shrapnel. Some of his friends delivered an eulogy.He was nearly my age, married, and just had a baby one month ago, which he never saw and never will. This soldier is nothing but a number to be added to the thousands of numbers in the death records, but he is worth a lot for other people specially that baby who will live his whole life without a father, all for the sake of Mr. President.
In this night, as usual, the sirens went on, announcing a new night full of anxiety, everybody ran to their shelter. No peace whether outside or even inside the base. And I wondered don’t those rebels get tired, it has been more than three years now, yet everyday they become more violent, and why haven’t we defeated them so far? It might be that people hate us, and so, they support them. But those are rebels or terrorist who hate freedom and democracy, and they want to harm Iraqis, and kill them, that’s what the president said. But why are they still fighting until this very minute? Nobody can deny the horrible crimes we committed in this country. We promised them a lot and offered them nothing, we made their country the most dangerous place in the world.
They are using different methods and tactics, and there are tens of ways in which they can make you lose your life:
- A shrapnel-stocked IED- Trashed inside a Hummer- Trapped in a burning Abrams- A sudden death by a sniper’s bullet- Mortar attack right at your bunk in your dormitory- Suicidal operation- Or more interestingly, watching yourself falling down in your own warplane
My homeland … America was once occupied, and the British committed horrible crimes against us. Boston’s massacre, that’s what it was called in the history class. They killed five civilians and then the American revolution started, and battles lasted for eight years between the British army and the Continental army, and heroes came out like John Paul Jones and George Washington, and then we got our independence.
Ironically, we have directly and indirectly killed more than 700 thousand Iraqis because of the chaos we caused, and yet we don’t want them to resist?
This too torments me, as I always feel I’m the oppressor, not the oppressed, but if I don’t kill I’ll be killed!! But why all of this in the first place?
As for those who we thought would hasten our exit out of Iraq, I mean the Iraqi Police and National Guard, they are so corrupted and lame that we can’t rely on them to do anything. They even can’t get a simple task done without our direct interference and supervision. They don’t even care of their own people, as if they were not Iraqis, they torture them more than we do, and in checkpoints they treat them brutally. In addition to all that they are stupid and useless.
Another day of our sad days in Iraq is over, and the sun of the new day has rose.
I missed you so much this day Mom, and I remembered the Christmas holidays, Santa Clause gifts and the rest of my family. I wish I could go home soon and never ever return here.
I feel like I’m Charlie Sheen playing the role of Chris in the movie Platoon. Because both of us come from an upper class rich and educated family, both of us went to war believing that we are the heroic saviors of the world, and both of us were put down by the factual realities on the ground.
And I wish that I can make it out in peace in the end, just like Chris!!
I actually feel like if I was part of that platoon in the movie. Or to describe it more accurately I feel like the soldiers have came out of the movie and are playing their roles in reality in Iraq!!! As the same scenarios keep repeating themselves, the massacre in village, the discord within the unit, the daily loss of buddies, and the drugs underneath the helmet of every soldier …
What we are doing here is so disgraceful, our acts are shameful, and we are a shame in the face of freedom and morals.
I started to hate people, and people hate us so much, and they throw everything at us.
And on top of all that I hate myself, and I am afraid that I’ll mentally deteriorate or have a post-traumatic stress like most of those who returned home, or commit a crime like the one Andres Raya did in California, or shoot one of my family and myself like Pfc. Stephen S. Sherwood after he came back from Iraq, or commit a suicide like hundreds do in here.
Why should I die for someone’s personal gains, and deceptive conclusions! and deceiving promises?
Where is the scholarship? And the financial aid you promised? Will you be forwarding it to me in hell?
Dear Mom, family, neighbors and good friends, I wish I was there with you this Christmas.
My friends,
Christopher,Parry,Mathew,Chad,Douglas,
I'll always remember all our good times we shared together. Don’t follow my steps and work quickly to get yourselves out of this mess, because nobody will get you out.
For all of that I wish that you step up and work seriously so that no more parents would lose their kids, and so that no more moms are shocked for the lose of their kids, or babies of their fathers.
In the end … I regretfully quote the wise words of our friend Chris as he was leaving Vietnam, as his words prove that we learned nothing from our tragic experience in there. But maybe his words would find an ear now:
I think now … looking back, we didn't fight the enemy …We fought ourselves.And the enemy was in us … the war is over for me now; but I'll always be there …
Spc. Lee Kendell Tucker590-80-5469

http://www.lee-flash.blogspot.nl/2006/12/lee-flash-memory-letter-to-his-family.html
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titus
02-14-2013, 12:35 AM
I would find better sources of information. This has been known as a fabrication for years.

The soldier who "wrote" the letter is alive and well and is not against the war. At least he wasn't almost 6 years ago when this story was debunked.

Source
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Vito
02-14-2013, 02:15 PM
Regardless of whether or not this letter is real, the events taking place there are very real.
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Jedi_Mindset
02-15-2013, 01:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
I would find better sources of information. This has been known as a fabrication for years.

The soldier who "wrote" the letter is alive and well and is not against the war. At least he wasn't almost 6 years ago when this story was debunked.

Source
Nice source you use, ABC, but no that doesnt work according to me. You know why this letter got refuted? Thats because the letter explains some serious plots by the US against the middle east.

Vito is right in this regard, doesnt matter if it is true or not, the goal is that everything explained in the letter is true.

Alot of US soldiers have woken up unfortunately for most of them its too late.
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iRock
02-18-2013, 11:43 AM
War is not good and many solidier know it :hmm:
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 02:56 PM
I am a former U.S infantryman 2x Iraq deployments.

Iraq was a horrific mistake.

I spoke out during both my deployments.
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Abu Loren
02-18-2013, 05:37 PM
The thing is though the military men have no choice in the matter. They must go where they are told to go or get court marshalled. We all know that the yanks are the most dirtiest underhanded fighters in the world. Like typical cowboys they like to shoot first and ask questions afterwards.
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Jedi_Mindset
02-18-2013, 06:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Loren
The thing is though the military men have no choice in the matter. They must go where they are told to go or get court marshalled. We all know that the yanks are the most dirtiest underhanded fighters in the world. Like typical cowboys they like to shoot first and ask questions afterwards.
Aka the call of duty generation. They join the military, go to afghanistan, arrive there As soon as they are there, they want to return back to the US.
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 06:51 PM
I admit many are like that. Though saying ALL is not even close to accurate.

Out of 20 guys in our platoon. 5 of us were anti Iraq war who voted for John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 based on our views of preemptive war.
Most did not have strong views either way.


There is strong differences of opinion within the military but we don't speak out publicly while we are enlisted.

There are a lot of smart people in the military we are not all "Call of Duty" types.
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Jedi_Mindset
02-18-2013, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Ignorant and insulting.

Thought Muslims had more respect then that.

Why bother replying to my posts if you are just here to attack me?

Not a great representation of Islam.
Dont mind him, he keeps on insulting, as you know he Pm's me just now, being very abusive, this guy is clearly on the wrong path. Not all muslims are good you see. He is a very emotional guy.

Although i dont like the US military either for them being stubborn to fight for imperialistic goals. I respect your stance and that you have quit the military.
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by GuestFellow
I'm not representing anyone but me. Then again feel free to think whatever you want. I absolutely hate the military and establishment. All of you are a bunch of *******s and faggots.
I just think any form of hate is destructive and will always speak against hate.

I disagree with U.S government policy when it comes to military involvement overseas.

I think saying the entire organization are "faggots" is just just being a bit childish and I wish we could discuss how it needs to change and why without throwing crazy insults at each other.
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 08:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Dont mind him, he keeps on insulting, as you know he Pm's me just now, being very abusive, this guy is clearly on the wrong path. Not all muslims are good you see. He is a very emotional guy.

Although i dont like the US military either for them being stubborn to fight for imperialistic goals. I respect your stance and that you have quit the military.
Thanks. =)

I like hearing all kinds of different points of view. I expected to get some people hating on me a little when I signed up.
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Jedi_Mindset
02-18-2013, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Thanks. =)

I like hearing all kinds of different points of view. I expected to get some people hating on me a little when I signed up.
Nah, there is something wrong with him, but as you can see he is banned now. Its good that you left the military, the US military is not made for nationalistic goals, to protect US homeland, rather its used for imperialist policies to destroy other countries.

The zionists, the bankers who controll the US government waging brutal wars in the middle east, and sadly alot of american people are joining the military thinking they do it for patriotism. The wars were not only destructive for iraq, afghanistan, libya et cetera but also for US itself. They are only losing more men, more money, their economy is falling apart. You cant just defeat the people they are fighting now, its impossible, the current US invasions only make more muslims want to join resistance groups throughout the middle east.

The cowardly drone strikes, only make the US being more hated, their support for the arab dictators, israel et cetera.

And i can understand people who severe hate against the US military and leaders. I am one of them, but i dont go around and generalize, i only say that the US soldiers are just pawns for Wall street and the zionist military industry complex
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Nah, there is something wrong with him, but as you can see he is banned now. Its good that you left the military, the US military is not made for nationalistic goals, to protect US homeland, rather its used for imperialist policies to destroy other countries.

The zionists, the bankers who controll the US government waging brutal wars in the middle east, and sadly alot of american people are joining the military thinking they do it for patriotism. The wars were not only destructive for iraq, afghanistan, libya et cetera but also for US itself. They are only losing more men, more money, their economy is falling apart. You cant just defeat the people they are fighting now, its impossible, the current US invasions only make more muslims want to join resistance groups throughout the middle east.

The cowardly drone strikes, only make the US being more hated, their support for the arab dictators, israel et cetera.

The American public is so blinded by the media on issues like this. Left and Right media don't discuss in detail how this is an effort to destroy and economically suppress parts of the world to further American self interests.

When we speak out we are labeled as not being patriotic.

When I hear the news talking about how we want freedom and democracy and pretend to have this moral high ground abroad it makes me sick.

These drone attacks set a terrible example for other countries to follow.

American support for Israel is so ingrained I don't see how we can get past that.
It is a political death sentence to say a word against Israel
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Dburzon
02-18-2013, 09:10 PM
Oh wow he did get banned.

I don't know how all this reputation stuff works yet. It won't let me do anything until I am a full member.
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Jedi_Mindset
02-18-2013, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Oh wow he did get banned.

I don't know how all this reputation stuff works yet. It won't let me do anything until I am a full member.
You are full member when you hit 55 posts, you have still a way to go i see. When you want to give reputation to someone, you need to click on the star symbol at the left corner under his post. The symbol of reporting a post is right next from it. When you want to give likes, you can press the 'like' option at the right corner under someone's post.

Hopefully this will make sense to you God willing.
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Logikon
02-19-2013, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vito
Regardless of whether or not this letter is real, the events taking place there are very real.
The thing with that statement is that just last week a bomb planted by insurgents killed a lot of people in the Kurdish region of Iraq

The US was trying to stop such things but now they have gone.
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Dburzon
02-19-2013, 02:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon
The thing with that statement is that just last week a bomb planted by insurgents killed a lot of people in the Kurdish region of Iraq

The US was trying to stop such things but now they have gone.
The sectarian war of 2006-07 wouldn't have happened if the U.S never invaded.

Yes we were trying to stop the sectarian war in 2006-12.
That doesn't justify staying in the country forever.

You want to stay in Iraq until Kurdistan becomes a state? LOL
Good luck.
The Iraqi government and the Kurds hate each other.

How does having Americans in Iraq solve their own political problems?
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Tyrion
02-19-2013, 05:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Oh wow he did get banned.

I don't know how all this reputation stuff works yet. It won't let me do anything until I am a full member.
I don't think reps work that way. It was most likely someone reporting him to the mods. The mod who found the report must have finally had enough of Guestfellow acting like a 5 year old in every thread.


format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
doesnt matter if it is true or not, the goal is that everything explained in the letter is true.
Right, use all the lies you want to make your point. That's the way to change hearts and win minds.
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Independent
02-19-2013, 09:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
You know why this letter got refuted? Thats because the letter explains some serious plots by the US against the middle east.
As the letter is a fake, the only value of its contents is to tell us about the prejudices of its author. It tells nothing about the conflict itself.

If someone published a letter from an Imam calling for death and destruction to all Christians, which was then revealed as a fake, you would condemn it for inciting hatred. What's the difference here?
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Jedi_Mindset
02-19-2013, 10:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
As the letter is a fake, the only value of its contents is to tell us about the prejudices of its author. It tells nothing about the conflict itself.

If someone published a letter from an Imam calling for death and destruction to all Christians, which was then revealed as a fake, you would condemn it for inciting hatred. What's the difference here?
This letter doesnt incite hatred, problem is you have much to talk behind your little PC screen and say: 'this letter is probably fake'. Ofcourse the media labels it as fake, the iraq war was a huge failure for the USA, the chaos and damage plus the amount of dead US soldiers. 500,000 iraqi children died because of the sanctions on iraq, the amount of iraqis in total killed by the US in both gulf war might exceed very well beyond the 2 million.



format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
Right, use all the lies you want to make your point. That's the way to change hearts and win minds.
In your eyes these are lies, go to iraq and see for yourself. You most likely think that this invasion was done for ''peacefull'' purposes. the only ones who are pumping oil right now are BP, shell, texaco and not the iraqi oil industries.



format_quote Originally Posted by Logikon
The thing with that statement is that just last week a bomb planted by insurgents killed a lot of people in the Kurdish region of Iraq

The US was trying to stop such things but now they have gone.
Nonsense, 700.000 iraqis killed by the US invasion, the death count is very high, the US was there to pave the way for a new government which will be enslaved by the US forver. Then the US tried to start a civil war between sunnis, kurds and shia's since the US couldnt handle the amount of attacks against their soldiers lol and to keep the country in chaos so it will never rise again.

Meanwhile BP is pumping the oil and enslaving the iraqi goverment.

Middle easr map of the new american century project:



Iraq is gone, its divided in shia, sunni and kurdish states. Today you see it very well happen, north iraq has its own goverment, and now the sunnis are rising up in al-anbar province to be independend from the brutal shiite government.
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Tyrion
02-19-2013, 10:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
In your eyes these are lies, go to iraq and see for yourself. You most likely think that this invasion was done for ''peacefull'' purposes. the only ones who are pumping oil right now are BP, shell, texaco and not the iraqi oil industries.
Nope, I'm merely pointing out that you're dishonest and are essentially trying to fool people into believing whatever point you want to make. You've been called out for using a fake source, and all you did was try to justify the usage of lies and fake information to persuade others of your views. You said that it "doesnt matter if it is true or not, the goal is that everything explained in the letter is true." Why should anyone believe anything you write?
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Jedi_Mindset
02-19-2013, 10:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion

Nope, I'm merely pointing out that you're dishonest and are essentially trying to fool people into believing whatever point you want to make. You've been called out for using a fake source, and all you did was try to justify the usage of lies and fake information to persuade others of your views. You said that it "doesnt matter if it is true or not, the goal is that everything explained in the letter is true." Why should anyone believe anything you write?
Its not even sure if this letter was fake. I am not fooling people. The point i want to make is that these are facts about the iraq war and that it wasnt for 'peacefull' purpose. You should read the whole topic before replying on my post. A ex-US soldier here admitted that despite the possiblity the letter is untrue, that this is indeed happening.

You are falling into the traps of some shills here on the forum who try to counter any info with some truth in it. Deal with your foolishnes.
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Vito
02-19-2013, 02:34 PM
I still stand by what I've stated before, fake letter or not. The letter accurately describes what is going on over there and how people feel about it. Look at Dburzon. He says he's been there and his views doesn't sound any different than the supposed imaginary guy in the letter. And I know there are many others like him. So fake or not, it reflects the reality of the situation. The fact that so many people are focusing on the authenticity of the letter rather than taking the time to think if those things actually happen there is a little disturbing.

**I guess what I said echos what Jedi just posted ^^



As the letter is a fake, the only value of its contents is to tell us about the prejudices of its author. It tells nothing about the conflict itself.

If someone published a letter from an Imam calling for death and destruction to all Christians, which was then revealed as a fake, you would condemn it for inciting hatred. What's the difference here?
Well, is the letter based on any facts like the Iraqi letter? Or is it simply trying to stir things up like those guys who made the cartoons or those who post ads in subway stations with misquoted/out of context parts of the Quran? There IS a difference.
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Independent
02-19-2013, 03:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vito
The letter accurately describes what is going on over there and how people feel about it.
All the best fakes contain at least some truth to them (or what people believe to be the truth) - otherwise they probably won't work. It was the same tactic with the Zinoviev Letter, the Dreyfus affair and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They all build from existing popular beliefs and prejudices.

format_quote Originally Posted by Vito
it reflects the reality of the situation
The best way to reflect the reality of the situation is to use real facts. There are plenty of good reasons to criticise US actions in Iraq. Why diminish your case by republishing fakes?
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Dburzon
02-19-2013, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Iraq is gone, its divided in shia, sunni and kurdish states. Today you see it very well happen, north iraq has its own goverment, and now the sunnis are rising up in al-anbar province to be independend from the brutal shiite government.
This is a fact. These ethnic divisions also are playing out in Syria.

The Kurdish Peshmurga and Shia government in Iraq even have a specific border where they can not cross into each others territory.
My unit was stationed on that line north of Baqubah.

The ethnic hatred and division was exacerbated by the Americans because we were trying to negotiate an oil sharing deal with the Kurdish fields in the north.
Not to heal ethnic divisions but so we could start mass development of those northern oil fields.

We all knew it. Our leaders even talked about it.

It was almost a day to day topic with our Peshmurga and ISF units that we lived with.
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Independent
02-19-2013, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
This is a fact
Actually the quote you posted above is from Jedi Mindset, not me.
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Dburzon
02-19-2013, 03:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Actually the quote you posted above is from Jedi Mindset, not me.
Oh my bad. I don't know how I did that. Sorry.
Yeah that was Jedi Mindset.
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Independent
02-19-2013, 03:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Oh my bad. I don't know how I did that. Sorry.
Yeah that was Jedi Mindset.
No worries. Weird glitch.
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Futuwwa
03-10-2013, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Vito is right in this regard, doesnt matter if it is true or not, the goal is that everything explained in the letter is true.
format_quote Originally Posted by Vito
I still stand by what I've stated before, fake letter or not. The letter accurately describes what is going on over there and how people feel about it.
If the truth itself is ****ing enough, why not tell the truth? Using lies to tell the truth is, in such a case, unnecessary. And counterproductive.
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Futuwwa
03-10-2013, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
In your eyes these are lies, go to iraq and see for yourself. You most likely think that this invasion was done for ''peacefull'' purposes. the only ones who are pumping oil right now are BP, shell, texaco and not the iraqi oil industries.
Actually, the one doing most of the pumping is the Chinese national oil corporation, something American neocoservatives are very butthurt over ;D
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GuestFellow
03-20-2013, 09:16 PM
^ Interesting article. Thanks for posting. I never knew the neoconservatives were not happy about this.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dburzon
Oh wow he did get banned.
Oh wow and he is back from vacation darling. *throws confetti*
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