Houses of Wisdom

[Al-Mufarridun]

:sl:

Just finished watching the following video, and was wondering how can the Ummah return to a quest for scientific/technological research and experimentation. What do you think of establishing and promoting Islamic based scientific libraries and laps in the Muslim world. Houses of wisdom where knowledge is stored, translated, researched, shared and improved upon.

Any thoughts?

[Scimitar]

I believe the legacy the Muslims left behind, is all around us today bro... just, upgraded.

As for the Ummah returning to a quest for scientific / techy research... well, I highly doubt that the western agenda makers will let that fruit. They've already established "systems" which make it very difficult, if not impossible for Muslims to rise to a position of importance in the modern age and on a global platform.

Just my thoughts.

[Al-Mufarridun]

Greetings bro Scimitar.

I do understand your point, but we can't really allow what the enemies of Allah swt plan and do to deter us from doing what we need to. Allah swt says in the Qur'an;

If you are visited with good fortune it vexes them, and if an evil afflicts you, they rejoice at it.
Yet if you are patient and God‑fearing, their evil designs will not harm you in any way; God encompasses the things they do. (3:120)

[Scimitar]

Well said bro Al Mufarridun,

...and that ayah is a solace for the believer.

From what I know, there are universities in the Muslim world which teach what we mentioned above. What I want to know is, what curriculums they follow.

You see bro Al Mufarridun, when I studied the scientific method, I understood that the modern method is based of Al Haythm's model (A very intellectual Muslim scientist). Ibn Al haythm refuted the former method, which Ptolemy had established. The world accepted the new method and science really flourished...

...but with the advent of Darwinism, we have inevitably reverted back to the Ptolemy method, which are full of kufr and shirk concepts. yet they claim that they still adhere to the Al Haythm method. Pfft.

What we need to determine first is, whether the universities in Muslim countries stay strict on the Al Haythm model or if they are lax and compromise the method because the curriculum they use (borrowed from western uni's) is just not sound enough and therefore Allah's help won't come?

plausible?

Just thinking aloud here bro

Scimi

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Abu Loren]

My one and half cents...

Unfortunately the Muslims are very divided across the globe, we need a unifying force within the Ummah, and I don't know what that is. The 'Golden Age' will never be surpassed nor sadly emulated. It's true that what they've given us is still in force today, without the 'Golden Age' the modern world would be something completley different.

I agree with the brother that the Dajjalistic West will try to suppress any Islamic innovation in Science and Techonology. Politically and religiosly the West would want to suppress Islam and Islamists.

However, having said that the Muslims do not need any political alliances to move ahead in Scientific and Technological innovations. Young academic people can get together and make progress with themselves scientifically. They just need a network of good highly educated people.

What do you think of establishing and promoting Islamic based scientific libraries and laps in the Muslim world. Houses of wisdom where knowledge is stored, translated, researched, shared and improved upon.

This would be ideal, like the days of old when the Europeans came to Muslim countries to be educated in Science and Astronomy etc.

[Hulk]

In my opinion our priority should not be this "scientific/technological" advancement but rather to return to the knowledgable state the ummah was in during the time of our Prophet pbuh. That is the true golden age of Islam, not the "advancements" in technologies etc. The advancement in technology however was a result of the knowledgable state of the Ummah.

[Scimitar]

The 'Golden Age' will never be surpassed nor sadly emulated.

Well, there is one more golden age to come where Muslim rule will conquer all. What that rule entails is up for speculation to some degree, however - with regard to shariah - it will be established.

Hence, when Hulk mentioned the knowledgeable state of the Ummah in the previous post (above), I believe we will get that chance at that time.

But before that time, the Muslims will face the greatest trials any people have ever faced on this earth. The trials of masih ud Dajjal.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there at the moment. The Muslim world has left behind a legacy that can never be ignored. Even if we contribute nothing more to the scientific world, we would have still done more than any people previous or since.

We can hold our heads up high and walk with confidence. When I engage in debate with non Muslim on other forums, I often find the convo coming back to the very misplaced idea that the Muslim world was barbaric :) When I prove to the people I debate with that we had soap when they didn't even bathe regularly in the northen countries - they very quickly shut their traps. but I'm relentless, and I produce evidence after evidence after evdidence... until some wise guy says "So, what are the Muslims doing today then? what have they contributed to the modern era in todays day and age?"

I reply back with: "The modern day and age is making advancements in technology and science, mainly in the field of warfare, both intellectual, spiritual, subliminal and physical... Muslims will not engage in that kind of regressive technology which damages human civilisation, unlike the nations you admire... now tell me, who seems more barbaric in the modern age now?"

let's not forget, thety've been unable to prove that anyArab nation has nukes. And if any Muslim nation like Pakistan has nukes, we know where they came from (cue USA).

That always gets their goats.

Scimi

[Al-Mufarridun]

Well said bro Al Mufarridun,

...and that ayah is a solace for the believer.

From what I know, there are universities in the Muslim world which teach what we mentioned above. What I want to know is, what curriculums they follow.

You see bro Al Mufarridun, when I studied the scientific method, I understood that the modern method is based of Al Haythm's model (A very intellectual Muslim scientist). Ibn Al haythm refuted the former method, which Ptolemy had established. The world accepted the new method and science really flourished...

...but with the advent of Darwinism, we have inevitably reverted back to the Ptolemy method, which are full of kufr and shirk concepts. yet they claim that they still adhere to the Al Haythm method. Pfft.

What we need to determine first is, whether the universities in Muslim countries stay strict on the Al Haythm model or if they are lax and compromise the method because the curriculum they use (borrowed from western uni's) is just not sound enough and therefore Allah's help won't come?

plausible?

Just thinking aloud here bro

Scimi

That is the reason why I open this thread bro, how can we establish and promote such centers which are Islamic based. To be honest with you, if we did take the time and pursue this, we would with the help of Allah swt once again clarify and purify these sciences, move them from these 'theories' to concrete truths through the Islamic Scientific method pioneered by Ibn Al-Haytham and other great scholars.

The key ingredient which gives us the edge is Tawheed, the Unity of God. Allah swt says in the Qur'an; "Had there been any gods in the heavens and the earth apart from Allah, the order of both the heavens and the earth would have gone to ruins. Glory be to Allah, the Lord of the Throne, Who is far above their false descriptions of Him." (21:22) We know that there is unity and harmony in all that is found in the universe, from the cosmic to the sub-atomic.

Who has created the seven heavens one above another, you can see no fault in the creations of the Most Beneficent. Then look again: "Can you see any rifts?"
Then look again and yet again, your sight will return to you in a state of humiliation and worn out.(67:3-4)

[Scimitar]

To be honest brother, I have not given it much thought. I resigned myself to the idea that the golden age will njot be established until the appointed term has arrived, ie: the Mahdi AS is ruling as Caliph.

However, you've made me think about something else too. Foundations. What I think you are asking for is the establishment of a sound, Islamic curriculum which adhere's to the Al Haythm model without erring, and insha'Allah, taking the modern scientific dribble (ala evo and ToE) and totally turning those on their heads.

If we can establish that, then the world at large will see another controversy, one they've tried to hide from us for over 100 years now... the con that is atheism.

I believe that a foundation needs to be established, and though I haven't given it much thought (admittedly), I'd like to read the suggestions of others.

Scimi

EDIT: a worrying thought that could possibly put a spanner in the works of this idea, is the very fact that the Muslim nations are in turmoil today. With no centralised Islamic governing body (Caliphate) we are weakened beyond a measure, at no point in history have the Muslims been so weak and divided.

Come to think of it, I don't want to sound like a downer, but we got bigger fish to fry before we determine how to set up a foundation for Islamically sound scientific and technological advancements.

[Scimitar]

For some inspiration though, (since i dropped a bomb in my edit above) I give you the following videos from a playlist on my channel, which may help some of us to feel the zeal to move forward despite the world being against us:



And these too (17 vdeos in this playlist, it's really good):

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5A3826D4B7024BC0

Scimi

[Al-Mufarridun]

I've started another thread in the world affairs section titled; Future of the Ummah - Coming Golden Age, once it gets approved by moderators we can discuss the matter of re-establishing the Khilafah there Insha'Allah.

[M.I.A.]

when i went to university the final year included a project.

research or practice based.

these projects were often related to ongoing research done by the university.



so i have to ask what is the problem?

even some posts blaming the west... when in reality... any teaching institution has the knowledge base and manpower to at least research whatever it wants.


?


the problem is not the man holding us back, it is the intention by which we move forward.

i mean sure polymer scientists and mechanics students could develop road surfaces resistant to tempreture change and wear..

sell it to the west and pave the road for further projects... *i hope some of you laughed*


but i guess its an ideal and a strategy that is not fitting with most peoples world view.


i mean you people know that the knowledge of islam was taken up by the west.

but in my eyes it is better to want to rebuild what was lost then destroy what is already present.



the blame game is one for mugs.

i mean the wicked west is not a land full of zombies, the moment you see it as such.. then you might as well only read every other ayah.

[Al-Mufarridun]

the problem is not the man holding us back, it is the intention by which we move forward.

Well put.

The purpose of this thread was not to discuss the west, but our own condition.

[M.I.A.]

incidentally, i failed my final year...

the answer did not suit the question.


so its easy to talk a good game.

but irl what will be will be.

[Al-Mufarridun]

Ibn Al Haytham made these discoveries while under house arrest. Many Islamic scholars actually wrote most of their works while imprisoned. So progress in most cases isn't reached with ease, but by enduring hardships, going against resistance while patiently persevering.

[Scimitar]

So bro Al Mufarridun, would you like us to discuss the possibility of re-establishing a Caliphate first, before we move onto the subject of Islamic sciences and the advancement of the Muslim nations in regard to contributing to the tech/science market places?

Makes sense bro.

From experience, I try to stay out of the Establishment of Caliphate threads on forums, but in this case, I think I will make an exception.

Scimi

[Al-Mufarridun]

So bro Al Mufarridun, would you like us to discuss the possibility of re-establishing a Caliphate first, before we move onto the subject of Islamic sciences and the advancement of the Muslim nations in regard to contributing to the tech/science market places?

Makes sense bro.

From experience, I try to stay out of the Establishment of Caliphate threads on forums, but in this case, I think I will make an exception.

Scimi

Yes, i was hoping the mods would approve the new thread so we could move that discussion over there, since as you pointed out, these type of discussions tend to get heated.

BTW, I see the need for advancing in these fields as a integral part of the re-establishment of the Khilafah. We'll discuss this futher Insha'Allah.

[ardianto]

...but with the advent of Darwinism, we have inevitably reverted back to the Ptolemy method, which are full of kufr and shirk concepts. yet they claim that they still adhere to the Al Haythm method. Pfft.

In Indonesia where embrace religion is obligated and atheism is against the law, science is not allowed to separated from religion. So, we cannot accept kufr concept in science. If we learn evolution, it's not because we blindy follow Darwin, but because we see something that should be learned. Darwin theory about human is only become a joke among people.

I agree with the brother that the Dajjalistic West will try to suppress any Islamic innovation in Science and Techonology. Politically and religiosly the West would want to suppress Islam and Islamists.

West will prevent technology that can threat their safety, like nuclear bomb. But they do not prevent Muslims to invent and develop other technologies. Muslim can invent and develop something, but unfortunately Muslim people have less of appreciation to Muslim scientist. This is why there are numbers of Muslims scientist who prefer to work for the West that appreciate them better.

[Al-Mufarridun]

:sl: bro Ardianto

I remember watching a program years back talking about Indonesia's strong aircraft manufacturing industry. How is it doing now? How is the quality and the range of aircraft that are made in the country?

[Scimitar]

The problem with this example (Indonesia) is that they are manufacturing new products using technology that is already currently on the market, and scientific breakthru's that were not discovered by Muslims - what we were discussing was NEW TECHNOLOGY, and NEW SCIENCE, which we don't see Muslims bringing to the world... when was the last time a Muslim got the noble prize for something that contributed to the advancement of beneficial technology? or a break through in science?

Defining the examples in context, within this discussion will be key, i think.

best question to ask will be "what have the Muslims invented in the past 100 years?" anyone say IED's i will bite your head off :D

Scimi

[ardianto]

:sl: bro Ardianto

I remember watching a program years back talking about Indonesia's strong aircraft manufacturing industry. How is it doing now? How is the quality and the range of aircraft that are made in the country?

Wa'alaikumsalam, brother.

Alhamdulillah, Indonesian Aerospace (Dirgantara Indonesia) still exist and even always get contract.

http://malaysiaflyingherald.wordpres...ct-until-2016/

Yes, Indonesian Aerospace (IAe) is strong because it could survive after collapse due to economic crisis that happened in 1998. Even performance of IAe now is better compared with before economic crisis.

Website : http://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/index.php

Aircraft products : http://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/...uct&t=aircraft

IAe excellent product for this time is CN-235 that designed together with CASA (now Airbus Military) Spain. The first flight of both countries was in late of 1983 (Spain in November, Indonesia in December). Then both countries develop their own variants. CN -235 that manufactured in Indonesia have been exported to Malaysia, Brunei, Thailand, Philippine, Pakistan, UAE, Burkina Faso, Senegal, and South Korea.

One of four Pakistan Air Force CN-235. Made in Indonesia. :)


Will Be produced

N-219. Light transport aircraft designed by Indonesian Aerospace for multi-purpose missions in remote areas. Have been ordered 20 units.

N-250. In 1995 IPTN (now Indonesian Aerospace) have made two prototypes of passenger airplane with capacity 50 seats (N-250) and 68 seats (N-250 100). N-250 program stopped because IPTN was interested to develop jet airplane N-2130. However, N-2130 plan stopped in 1997 due to economic crisis. Now IAe is waiting an order from BJ Habibie to build new version of N-250.

Bacharuddin Jusuf (BJ) Habibie. The third president of Indonesia, and former head of ICMI (Indonesian Muslim intellectual association). Hold 46 patents in aeronautica!

BJ Habibie was designer of N-250. He worked for Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm, Germany with last position as vice president of technology. President Soeharto called him back to Indonesia in 1973 to develop national aircraft industry. He was minister of research and technology until early of 1998. Become vice president for few month, and finally became the third president of Indonesia. IPTN (now IAe) was under his ministry.


Photo galery

CN-235 under manufacturing process.

Super Puma helicopter under manufacturing process.

Wing components for Airbus 380.

CN-235 that ordered by Senegal.

Three CN-235 that ready to deliver to the buyers.

CN-235 220-MPA (Maritime Patrol Aircraft). Variant that developed only by Indonesian Aerospace.

[ardianto]

The problem with this example (Indonesia) is that they are manufacturing new products using technology that is already currently on the market, and scientific breakthru's that were not discovered by Muslims - what we were discussing was NEW TECHNOLOGY, and NEW SCIENCE, which we don't see Muslims bringing to the world... when was the last time a Muslim got the noble prize for something that contributed to the advancement of beneficial technology? or a break through in science?

Defining the examples in context, within this discussion will be key, i think.

best question to ask will be "what have the Muslims invented in the past 100 years?" anyone say IED's i will bite your head off :D

Scimi

Few Indonesian products in the 21st century.

CC 300 locomotive and train coaches from PT INKA, Madiun.

Railbus, by PT INKA, Madiun

Armored Personel Carrier "Anoa" by Pindad military industry

Krait Class navy ship

Banjarmasin Class navy ship


Yes bro, the products above were designed and made based on technologies that already exist in the market. But at least it's still better than did not try to make national products and always depend on other countries.

Insha Allah, in the future Indonesian people will innovate many important innovation. From what I've seen, the Indonesian youth nowadays are better than my generation.

Noble prize?. The most important thing that Muslim majority countries should do now is develop their industries to reduce their dependency to non-Muslim countries. It's okay if now Muslims use and develop technologies that available in the market. If we have familiar with developing other people technologies, we will easier to invent something.

[Muhaba]

i think if ppl didn't run around after money, then they might think of giving time to something more valuable. da'wah is also very necessary. how many ppl go to the west to live and earn but don't do da'wah nor learn the religion themselves nor practice well. and their characters resemble those around them and not true Muslims!

[Abu Loren]

i think if ppl didn't run around after money, then they might think of giving time to something more valuable. da'wah is also very necessary. how many ppl go to the west to live and earn but don't do da'wah nor learn the religion themselves nor practice well. and their characters resemble those around them and not true Muslims!

I was thinking this the other day tbh no lie!

I think some Muslims in the West are ashamed to be muslims. No really.

[Scimitar]

Some of them, yes... they're usually young, or just too involved in dunyaa to care.

... I live in London Uk, and we have a good amount of Muslims who look like Muslims around here. infact, our masjids are packed to overspill around here, and we got three masjids within 10 miunutes walking distance from my house. All packed :)

[Ahmad H]

I was thinking this the other day tbh no lie!

I think some Muslims in the West are ashamed to be muslims. No really.

you are correct. There are Muslims who do seem to be ashamed to be Muslim. But, it may not be they are ashamed, but they keep their being Muslim hidden lest anyone else make fun of them. They may not want others to speak ill of Allah Himself because they do not understand our faith.

We have to be older brothers to the younger Muslims, and teach them from what we know and help them develop their understanding of Islam. Teach them to rely on the Qur'an for answers in life, to try to emulate the Holy Prophet (saw) (and consider him their life hero rather than some celebrity) and to try and pray often to overcome the materialism here in the West.

Ignorance is the major cause of the youth going astray.

[Al-Mufarridun]

:sl:

Military Technology: Where do Muslims Stand? - By Aamir Latif

He quoted the words of Dr. Muhammad Aijazul Khatib of Damascus University that "In contrast to 250 verses which are legislative, some 750 verses of the Holy Quran - almost one-eighth of it - exhort the believers to study Nature to reflect, to make the best use of reason and to make the scientific enterprise an integral part of Community's life."

“Until, the Muslim Ummah follows the saying of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in connection with acquisition of knowledge, it cannot revert to its lost glory. Allah does not change the condition of those who do not change it by themselves”, Naeem maintained.

[ardianto]

LAPAN TUBSat (LAPAN A1) nano satellite

The Indonesia’s first remote sensing satellite, made by the experts from LAPAN (National Institute of Aeronautics and Space) Indonesia and Technical University Berlin (TUB) Germany, in TUB lab Germany. The uses of the satellite are for Indonesian natural resources observation and weather forecast for the Indonesian area.

LAPAN TUBSat weighs of 54, 7 Kilograms. Launched in 1 January 2007 from the Indian space centre in Sriharikota and still functioning well after the fifth birthday. Orbit at 630 kilometers above Indonesia. This satellite passes the polar orbital (from one polar to another) and across the archipelago for two or three times each day.

LAPAN A2 nano satellite.

Designed and built by LAPAN (National Institute of Aeronautics and Space) Indonesia, in LAPAN lab in Ranca Bungur, Indonesia, although still used German consultant. Has 78 kilograms weight, LAPAN A2 nano satellite utility are for earth observation, ships monitoring, and for amateur radio communication. It carries Automatic Identification System (AIS) that can identify every ship that sail on its monitored area.

LAPAN A2 will be launched from Indian space centre in Sriharikota, India, in june 2013. Although launched by India, LAPAN engineers will be there to prepare and monitor this nano satellite launching.


For this time Indonesia still use Indian rockets because LAPAN satellite launcher rockets has not ready yet, and still in development process. An expert from LAPAN said that rocket technology is top secret technology that no country will share this technology. So, LAPAN must work alone in research and development without any help from another country. But LAPAN is targeting in 2014 they will ready to launch nano satellite with their self made rocket.

LAPAN rockets testing

(from article: Military Technology: Where do Muslims Stand? - By Aamir Latif)

“The Muslim rulers have to understand- the sooner the better- that the honorable exit of their dependence on the West is not possible without the strength of science and technology”, Rahman, who served as minister for science and technology from 2000 to 2002 remarked.

Hafiz Naeem-ur-Rehman, an engineer and religious scholar agrees. “Knowledge is the lost treasure of the Muslim Ummah. Wherever it is found, we must get it.” Hafiz Naeem, who got his civil engineering degree from NED University of Engineering and Technology.

Muslim majority countries should strong in science and technology if they want to exit from their dependence on the West. As the first step Muslims can take the West technologies, then develop these technologies and finally invent new technologies.

As Muslims we should realistic that we need step by step process if we want to get our golden age again.

“Until, the Muslim Ummah follows the saying of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in connection with acquisition of knowledge, it cannot revert to its lost glory. Allah does not change the condition of those who do not change it by themselves”, Naeem maintained.

[ardianto]

Muslimah contribution in science and technology.

Sidrotun Naim

One of numbers of Indonesian female Muslim scientists and researcherr. Known as "shrimp doctor" because her research in virology to invent vaccine for shrimps. got L'Oreal-Unesco FWIS International award in 2012.

Few Indonesian female scientists and researchers in an event.

We should not forget that half of Muslims people are females, and they could give huge contribution for ummah if they are given the opportunity. Muslim women in Indonesia have proven it. They give important contribution in science, technology, and economy, without they neglect their duties as a wife and a mother.

[Al-Mufarridun]

:sl:

Muslim majority countries should strong in science and technology if they want to exit from their dependence on the West. As the first step Muslims can take the West technologies, then develop these technologies and finally invent new technologies.

As Muslims we should realistic that we need step by step process if we want to get our golden age again.

Well said bro. While we all know the task before us is huge, we must also remain realistic and move forward in a 'step by step process' as you mentioned.

I'm fascinated by the Japanese model, their approach during the Meiji restoration, when they within a very short period of time moved from an isolationist togugawa shogunate to a world power. They sent students abroad to learn science and technology, each field from the best in the world. They of-course made some mistakes, but it is still a very unique example.

Short overview of Japan's modernization

Meiji Reform and Modernization

The Japanese were angry that the shogun had
given in to the foreigners’ demands. They turned to Japan’s young emperor, Mutsuhito (moot•soo•HEE•toh), who seemed to symbolize the country’s sense of pride and nationalism. In 1867, the Tokugawa shogun tepped down, ending the military dictatorships that had lasted since the 12th century. Mutsuhito took control of the government. He chose the name Meiji for his reign, which means “enlightened rule.” Mutsuhito’s reign, which lasted 45 years, is known as the Meiji era.

The Meiji emperor realized that the best way to counter Western influence was to modernize. He sent diplomats to Europe and North America to study Western ways. The Japanese then chose what they believed to be the best that Western civilization had to offer and adapted it to their own country. They admired Germany’s strong centralized government, for example. And they used its constitution as a model for their own. The Japanese also admired the discipline of the German army and the skill of the British navy. They attempted to imitate these European powers as they modernized their military. Japan adopted the American system of universal public education and required that all Japanese children attend school. Their teachers often included foreign experts. Students could go abroad to study as well.

The emperor also energetically supported following the Western path of industrialization. By the early 20th century, the Japanese economy had become as modern as any in the world. The country built its first railroad line in 1872. The track connected Tokyo, the nation’s capital, with the port of Yokohama, 20 miles to the south. By 1914, Japan had more than 7,000 miles of railroad. Coal production grew from half a million tons in 1875 to more than 21 million tons in 1913. Meanwhile, large, state-supported companies built thousands of factories. Traditional Japanese industries, such as tea processing and silk production, expanded to give the country unique products to trade. Developing modern industries, such as shipbuilding, made Japan competitive with the West.