Discussion: Egypt not accepting the fake riba paper money?

[Jedi_Mindset]

Egypt will not sign "emergency" IMF loan - cabinet

(Reuters) - Egypt will not sign any "emergency" loan with the International Monetary Fund and any loan agreement will be within the context of the country's economic programme, cabinet spokesman Alaa el-Hadidi said on Tuesday.
"There will not be a fast or emergency loan," Hadidi told reporters, adding that no timing has been set yet for the IMF mission's visit to Egypt.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0C45PC20130312

[Jedi_Mindset]

The reason i wanted to post this is that countries who refused to bow down to the IMF were hit by sanctions or invasions. If egypt refuses it, then it comes also in line wth the prophecies.

Book 041, Number 6923:
Abu Hurairah (Radi Allahu anhu) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “Iraq would withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria would withhold its mudd and dinar and Egypt would withhold its irdab and dinar and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started, the bones and the flesh of Abu Hurairah (Radi Allahu anhu) would bear testimony to it.” [Muslim]

Scholars have mentioned that this is happening in this time frame, with sanctions in iraq which killed around 500,000 people. The sanctions on syria right now.

[Scimitar]

If Egypt did accept the loan, they'd be a nation once again enslaved by pharoah.

Scimi

[Abu Loren]

Scholars have mentioned that this is happening in this time frame, with sanctions in iraq which killed around 500,000 people. The sanctions on syria right now.

Very good of you to connect the dots Mashaa Allah.

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[Jedi_Mindset]

If Egypt did accept the loan, they'd be a nation once again enslaved by pharoah.

Scimi

True, look at what IMF has done to 'third world countries'' no wonder despite the fake humantarian help those countries remain poor, most of the money will end up in the pockets of the governments anyway who need to pay their debts back to their puppet masters.

If Egypt accepts it, it will end up more bad then it already is, either way, if they dont accept it they will most likely hit by sanctions. But if the last one happens, it is the only thing what needs to happen. If a country is hit by the majority of the world, then it will make that country only stronger and more unity. Iraq for example. If they take the IMF loan it means that they will be enslaved by the zionists again, and indeed the firawn will turn back then. And the country will be hit by civil war like the mossad is trying to attempt right now.

Very good of you to connect the dots Mashaa Allah.

Its easy to think about bro, certainly when you are aware of the deceptions being played around right now, and the enormous amount of fitnah and fasaad which is affecting the believers now. Its not pretty, people will wake up as a believer and will go to sleep as a disbeliever and vica versa. Dajjal corporations are hell bound on destroying the believers in anyway possible. Certainly we avarage muslims cant handle the fitnah when dajjal is released even the fitnah now is take a huge toll on us.

[Scimitar]

IMF and World Bank are designed to enslave entire nations. This is no real secret, but what really irks me are third world nations who knowingly enter into slavery with their new masters.

Which nations today are not enslaved by the monetary system? Even Muslim nations have not been spared, and the ones who opted out - well, look at them - just as prophesied in hadeeth. Sanctions, as bro Ridhwan had mentioned above.

Israel has horded so much gold and silver now that they are on the verge of announcing a new currency within a few years I feel. And this currency will be gold and silver currency... muhc like what halal money is supposed to be. Dirham and Dinar. How the Israeli's will use this new currency is still open to speculation, but one thing is for sure, it WILL be the strongest currency in the world - and the only people who can stop it are the Muslims, if we bring back the dirham and dinar...

... Why won't our leaders WAKE UP.

This is really annoying.

[Jedi_Mindset]

IMF and World Bank are designed to enslave entire nations. This is no real secret, but what really irks me are third world nations who knowingly enter into slavery with their new masters.

True, i think many leaders know about this and that they are just hypocrites. But they dont even know that they are being used as stooges.

Which nations today are not enslaved by the monetary system? Even Muslim nations have not been spared, and the ones who opted out - well, look at them - just as prophesied in hadeeth. Sanctions, as bro Ridhwan had mentioned above.

The whole world today is enslaved, another interesting fact is that in another version of this hadith prophet muhammed(saw) said that iraq will be placed under sanctions by the non-arabs this means the Un. Today syria is under sanctions but the most severe sanctions are from western powers, the romans, prophet muhammed(saw) said that syria will withold its mud and dinar only by the romans. Russia and China both are against these sanctions since Assad is their puppet.

Israel has horded so much gold and silver now that they are on the verge of announcing a new currency within a few years I feel. And this currency will be gold and silver currency... muhc like what halal money is supposed to be. Dirham and Dinar. How the Israeli's will use this new currency is still open to speculation, but one thing is for sure, it WILL be the strongest currency in the world - and the only people who can stop it are the Muslims, if we bring back the dirham and dinar...

True, not exactly israel bro, its a world government we talk about, the FDA and western banks already have enormous amount of gold, from afghanistan, and they are earning more with the recent invasions of Mali, to occupy the gold mines there, and the invasion of libya, most of gadaffi's gold is now in EU banks and in US banks and no doubt in israel. Infact israel has many gold from europe specifically Germany and france. Why do you think when the euphrates is dried up and gold will be found that a enormous war will break out, because many people will jump on that gold. For what? well the obvious reasons are already stated. The current wars in syria and iraq, might be a very prelude for this, but we will see.

[Scimitar]

Yes, exactly...

1) the world bank and IMF are owned by the banker families
2) the banker families are Jewish
3) the banker families are the ones who are directly responsible for cajoling the USA, France and England into signing the Balfour Declaration in 1918, which would recognise Palestinian territories as "game", thus their ideal was to re-establish a Jewish state in their ancestral home, Jerusalem. Israel is born a few decades later (1948 at the close of WW2)
4) the insane RIBA profits these banker families make, are complemented towards the establishment of Israel as a New World Super Power - in order to do this, they need to establish a currency that is strong... they want the strongest, they want gold and silver currency.
5) any comparative historian will tell you that both world wars were engineered to bring about a state of confusion in to the world and a sympathy for a people who were killed en-masse - namely the propagation of the lie that 6 million Jews dide in the holocaust.... the truth is, over 6 million Muslims died in world war 1 alone, and the figures for WW2 are said to be even larger - yet there is no sympathy for the Muslims nor is there any sympathy for the anti-semitic genocide which is occurring against the Palestinian peoples since 1948 til present day. Muslim blood seems to be a cheap commodity.

The Gold and Silver reserves which western nations have collected, do not actually belong to those nations... no. They are held in "trust". Now you know why.

Scimi

[Jedi_Mindset]

That the holocaust is massively exaggerated is a beyond a doubt bro, and now a anti-semitic genocide is going on in the arab world by the ones who claim to be semite yet dont have even the DNA to prove they are. The semites are the arabs and not a bunch of khazar and slavs.

WW1 was designed to destroy the caliphate and it worked during it and the aftermath was very horrendous for the muslims, the colonization of muslim countries which got alot of us killed and during the invasions which killed millions of muslims as well.

WW2 was set in place as a reason to create israel, dont make any mistake, hitler made deals with the zionists and so did stalin, USSR at that time was funded by the same powers who funded hitler. But to sum it up, alot of muslims were killed in the process of creating israel and again the invasions of N.africa by western powers and germany which killed plenty of muslims as well.

And now people are again taking sides in the preparations of the upcoming world war.

[taqwa1423]

Alhamdulillah, May Allah strenghten you and protect you from the enemies evil macinations.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Alhamdulillah, May Allah strenghten you and protect you from the enemies evil macinations.

May Allah protect you from our enemies as well. Ameen

[ardianto]

Indonesia under Soeharto regime ever took loan from IMF when it hit by economic crisis in 1997-1998. But in 2005 Indonesia govt under president Yudhoyono decide to pay back this loan although its due date actually was in 2010. This was because the Indonesian govt and people were annoyed with the act of the IMF that always forced Indonesia to obey what they tell such as selling state companies, closing a number of companies, raising fuel prices, etc.

Indonesian economic gone better after left IMF. Later Indonesia entered G-20 countries.

Now the situation has reversed, Indonesia no longer borrow from the IMF, but it could provide loans to the IMF although only one billion dollars. Amount that approved by parliament.

[Independent]

The reason i wanted to post this is that countries who refused to bow down to the IMF were hit by sanctions or invasions.

Countries make their own choices about whether or not to apply for an IMF loan. Sanctions have nothing to do with the IMF either one way or the other and have never been imposed on a country that refused a loan. Who would ever apply for a loan if you risked getting sanctions when you turned it down? There is no connection.

In order to be eligible for an IMF loan you have to be a member (which Egypt is) and this is entirely voluntary. In practice the membership is split between contributors (major countries like the US, Japan, Saudi Arabia) and non contributors (like Egypt) who join in order to have access to funds if they need them. The non-contributors do have voting rights but not the majority (which is hardly surprising or they would vote themselves endless funds).

The IMF is therefore 'owned' by its members (which are states) not individuals or banks, Jewish or otherwise. The big donors are the big countries and therefore they dominate its policy.

When the IMF was set up its primary role was exchange rate control but when most currencies were left to float free in the 1970s it switched to general economic support and advice.

When the IMF disburses funds it usually makes conditions requiring some kind of economic reform to bring government deficits under control (or else the money would be wasted). This is where the friction comes. There are big arguments about whether or not IMF advice is beneficial or otherwise. You can find good examples and bad examples. However, there is no reason to think that the rules are based on anything other than economic principles.

For instance, in 1976 the UK was obliged to take an IMF loan which (just like the loan offered to Egypt today) came with demands to cut public expenditure. The UK took the loan and made the cuts.

You can argue about whether these economic principles are right, but there is nothing in them to suggest any sinister political motive.

No one is forcing Egypt to be a member of the IMF - in fact there are other countries who would like to join if they could. Egypt has received help from Qatar and Turkey which is why it has delayed the IMF loan, but the current economic crisis is deepening and there is no sign that the government is going to bring it under control as yet. The challenges would be immense whoever was in charge - however, unless stronger action is taken it is very likely that there will be further social unrest.

[ardianto]

The reason i wanted to post this is that countries who refused to bow down to the IMF were hit by sanctions or invasions.

It's not true. There's no sanction or invasion if a country refuse to take loan from IMF. And don't forget, Indonesia could 'kick out' IMF with paid loan which taken from IMF four years before due date.

When the IMF disburses funds it usually makes conditions requiring some kind of economic reform to bring government deficits under control (or else the money would be wasted). This is where the friction comes. There are big arguments about whether or not IMF advice is beneficial or otherwise. You can find good examples and bad examples. However, there is no reason to think that the rules are based on anything other than economic principles.

From what I've noticed, mostly the IMF 'advice' for Indonesia were not applicable, especially for micro economic, even some 'advice' were absurd. In example, IMF urged Indonesian govt to sell profitable companies.

[Independent]

From what I've noticed, mostly the IMF 'advice' for Indonesia were not applicable, especially for micro economic, even some 'advice' were absurd. In example, IMF urged Indonesian govt to sell profitable companies.

I agree, the IMF don't spend enough time looking at local circumstances, they simply trot out the same formula every time. Sometimes it can help because they allow a weak government to take necessary tough decisions and blame them on the IMF. But just as often they seem to impose cuts at inappropriate times. They need to show more imagination.

For instance, here in Ireland we are struggling with an austerity programme right now (although the EU are as much responsible for the tough terms as the IMF).

Ordinary citizens often don't understand the pressures that drive governments to the IMF. Egypt's foreign currency reserves have fallen by two thirds since the revolution. They have enough funds to cover about 3 months of government spending. Already businesses are being squeezed for lack of access to dollars or other foreign currency.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

If you want a short history of the IMF and the WTO, watch this



In short the less you have to do with them the better.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Thanks Junon for posting that, so i wont describe it in my posts now :)

[Independent]

You have to remember that Egypt is already borrowing on the markets, like just about any other state. If they go to the IMF/World Bank it will be because the commercial rates have gone too high.

Egypt's main problem is not debt (which is what Pilger is describing) but a current account deficit. They need to borrow to pay the wages of public sector workers. No borrowing, no pay. They must cut their budget deficit either by growth or reduced spending.

[جوري]

They must cut their budget deficit either by growth or reduced spending.

or perhaps retrieving the money stolen and deposited in swiss banks in the billions.

best,

[Independent]

or perhaps retrieving the money stolen and deposited in swiss banks in the billions.

That would help but as I say, the root of the problem is not debt but the public account deficit and a serious decline in foreign reserves (tourism was a major source of foreign currency as well as remittances from Egyptians working overseas). Egypt is spending more than it earns.

[جوري]

That would help but as I say, the root of the problem is not debt but the public account deficit and a serious decline in foreign reserves (tourism was a major source of foreign currency as well as remittances from Egyptians working overseas). Egypt is spending more than it earns.

Every country is spending more than it earns except perhaps for China. I certainly hope Egypt would give up tourism as a source for its economy. It has brought nothing but spies and debuachery. Wherever Mursi scratches a cesspool of filth and corruption is revealed and it is going to take sometime to fix. There's not a shortage of resources in Egypt nor countries to do business with.
Just the desert sand alone can be used to help Malyasia with computer chips. Al'sukkari mine would be better off to the benefit of Egypt than dutch companies but we need to rid of the turds that are Ann Paterson and Co. close shop for a while we repair.. since they're there for only one purpose and we all know what it is!

[Independent]

Every country is spending more than it earns except perhaps for China.

Yes, which is why continued access to borrowing is essential. Commercial rates for Egypt are rising (because of perceived risk) and at this rate the IMF will be the only place left to go - or they will have to stop paying every public sector worker (and start another revolution).

They may not have very long before this becomes a crisis.

[جوري]

Yes, which is why continued access to borrowing is essential. Commercial rates for Egypt are rising (because of perceived risk) and at this rate the IMF will be the only place to go - or they will have to stop paying every public sector worker (and start another revolution).

You are not sitting on Egypt's treasury to know whether or not it can pay its public sector workers, you only infer based on the rumor mill which is meant to instil fear in the hearts of the people. Be that as it may there are plenty of countries to borrow from, in the middle east if that's the case as to not resort to western style usury. Turkey has already helped and so has Qatar.. like I said it will take a while to stand on its feet if only the cockroaches would leave it be for a while.. but of course we're all too well aware of the agenda!

best,

[Independent]

You are not sitting on Egypt's treasury to know whether or not it can pay its public sector workers

Most countries publish these figures.

Turkey has already helped and so has Qatar

I mentioned this already. But they won't fund a deficit forever.

[جوري]

Most countries publish these figures.

Have you that figure from Egypt officially or simply your rumor mill?

But they won't fund a deficit forever.

The Muslim world has no intention of being divided for long nor will we sit idle watching Muslim's fortunes squandered on western wh0res and in the hands and at the hands of despots.. haven't you heard? there's a cascade & a domino effect of revolts going on.

best,

[Independent]

Have you that figure from Egypt officially or simply your rumor mill?

It's not in the least controversial or unusual to publish such figures and they are available from many sources.

nor will we sit idle watching Muslim's fortunes squandered on western wh0res and in the hands and at the hands of despots

That's all very well, but I was talking about public sector workers.

[جوري]

It's not in the least controversial or unusual to publish such figures and they are available from many sources.

That doesn't answer my question. Do you have figures of the Egyptian treasury for us and evidence that wages won't be paid?

[Independent]

That doesn't answer my question. Do you have figures of the Egyptian treasury for us and evidence that wages won't be paid?

For example, some details about foreign reserves here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...i-fall-1-.html

And some about public sector workers here:
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...ies-be-delayed

[جوري]

For example, some details about foreign reserves here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...i-fall-1-.html

And some about public sector workers here:
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...ies-be-delayed

bloomerberg is being a berg and the office of the presidency has already denied the salaries being delayed in fact the Egyptian news is more akin to tabloids than facts and takes its orders from the bergs.
Like I said I'd like the figures from the official treasury, can you do that?

best,

[Independent]

bloomerberg is being a berg and the office of the presidency has already denied the salaries being delayed in fact the Egyptian news is more akin to tabloids than facts and takes its orders from the bergs.
Like I said I'd like the figures from the official treasury, can you do that?

Actually I'm going to bed. (Bloomerberg is a berg?!!)

[جوري]

Actually I'm going to bed

You do that!

(Bloomerberg is a berg?!!)

Indeed being a Jewy McJew Jew.. they only have one type of news..

by the way I like that exist.. you and the other fellow like your sleep when the going gets tough I guess..

best,

[Independent]

Indeed being a Jewy McJew Jew.. they only have one type of news..

Bloomberg are known the world over as one the largest financial data service companies. They get their statistics from official sources the same way as anyone else does - in this case as provided by the Central Bank of Egypt:

http://www.cbe.org.eg/SDDS/InternationalReserves.htm

But the only thing you think worthy of comment is that they must be a bunch of 'Jewy McJew Jews' because they have a JEWISH name.

[جوري]

Bloomberg are known the world over as one the largest financial data service companies. They get their statistics from official sources the same way as anyone else does - in this case as provided by the Central Bank of Egypt:

http://www.cbe.org.eg/SDDS/InternationalReserves.htm

But the only thing you think worthy of comment is that they must be a bunch of 'Jewy McJew Jews' because they have a JEWISH name.

Credibility of the source is indeed important- whether or not you think they're credible is irrelevant. Furtheremore, the data you provided above says nothing about disability of paying the public sector workers their dues.
All it has are numbers with no reference points and a comment on that bottom stating:
Compared with December 2012 figure , the NIR has decreased partially due to the payment of USD 619 million of Egypt external debt to Paris Club member countries .

good luck with your next attempt.

best,

[Independent]

Credibility of the source is indeed important

The data shows foreign currency reserves at 8903 (US$Mill) as recorded by Bloomberg's and everyone else if you bothered to check - and that's about a third of what it was 2 years ago.

But in your blind prejudice the only thing you can see is that this US company has a Jewish name.

[جوري]

The data shows foreign currency reserves at 8903 (US$Mill) as recorded by Bloomberg's and everyone else if you bothered to check - and that's about a third of what it was 2 years ago.

But in your blind prejudice the only thing you can see is that this US company has a Jewish name.

My 'Blind prejudice' isn't what's on trial. I subscribe to the sources of my choosing- No law against it! The president of Egypt has already denied the allegations that there's not enough money to pay the wages of the public sector workers and you're yet to provide official data from th Egyptian treasury. Again, I don't care who you or 'everyone' else belives to be a fact. argumentum ad populum does nothing for me, neither does playing the victim/Jewish card.


best,

[Independent]

neither does playing the victim/Jewish card.

You played it, not me - at first I didn't even realise what you meant when you started jeering about bloomer-berg.

My 'Blind prejudice' isn't what's on trial. I can choose the sources of my choosing to build my opinion.

You rejected a source for having a Jewish name, when you don't even know if they're actually Jewish, because you hate Jews. Not just Jews - but Jews are right up there at the top of your list.

[جوري]

You played it, not me - at first I didn't even realise what you meant when you started jeering about bloomer-berg.

I don't believe them to be victims to play the card. I don't have to accept the enemy' source as accurate - it is warefare and it takes many different forms. Media and rumor mill is one of them!

My 'Blind prejudice' isn't what's on trial. I can choose the sources of my choosing to build my opinion. You rejected a source for having a Jewish name, when you don't even know if they're actually Jewish, because you hate Jews. Not just Jews - but Jews are right up there at the top.

See above reply and stop ensnaring with your ********- I already told you it does nothing for me the words you put in people's mouths and the inane simpleton conclusions you draw when folks clarify for you & repeatedly their objections.

best,

[Scimitar]

please sister, mind your language. this is not reflective of your status as a Muslim woman.

[Logikon]

When a country is a basket case, they cannot borrow on the world markets. The IMF is the only place they can borrow.

Typically a country is a financial basket case either because it cannot manage its finances or else the country is rife with corruption.

When the IMF lends they have a condition. The country must clean up one or the other problem or both problems as the case may be.

The idea That Egypt will be hit with sanctions for not taking an IMF loan is quite ridiculous!
.