Why so many atheist exist online but i barely see many on the streets?

[ZJK24]

Online there are so many atheist everywhere but in my neighborhood and my neighbors are just Muslims and Christians. Even random people I have spoken to about these things they don't follow a religion but all the time they will say something like 'I believe this was all created by somebody' 'I believe there is a higher power ultimately'. I have never seen these atheists that we see online that strongly deny God completely I have never spoken to any, seen any in the streets, gone to school or college or job with any of them or anything. Everyone I have ever spoken to which is a lot has always either followed a religion or had no religion but still believed in God as the Creator.

Is it like this for you also? How many atheists are you familiar are living in your neighborhood and how many have you interacted with in streets?

For me I have spoken to atheists and asked them some question but I don't understand their perspective. But this is always online, never in person. Also every atheist I have spoken to online has been very aggressive and condescending towards religion, and used very bad manners when addressing some things in Islam and also Christianity. It's like when you talk to atheist about God he is trying to put you in the position of an infant and make himself out to be so much smarter in science than anyone who has faith.

But my topic is that if you go online on even some sites nothing to do with religion like film sites or food sites there is always an atheist on there shouting at people about their belief. For example I was watching Youtube video about someone I know who had their family member pass away and it was a tribute video that one of the captions said 'RIP, May God protect you'. And then an atheist came along and said 'Sorry to hurt your feelings but God doesn't exist'. Sometimes I just want to do some activity on Youtube and not be bothered by these atheists but it seems impossible.

It's like there are so many atheists existing on the internet in a trend, but in the real world not too many around where I live.

What about you?

[IAmZamzam]

I'm glad I got here first, before an atheist could come and say something like, "Well, they're probably just too afraid to speak out in public."

I actually read an article about this once, saying that basically the internet like like an antireligious church for these people. They are too afraid, in a way, but that's only half of it. The other half is that most of these people aren't using the relative anonymity to express themselves calmly and maturely but rather to let out all their pent-up anger with their religious surroundings. No, really, that's not all me, it was largely what the article said too. But really, it's not just the internet. Atheistic books, magazines, and pre-internet sources have been reflecting the same attitude since time immemorial.

[Berries'forest]

I've noticed that too. Closet atheists maybe?. But I think they pretend to believe infront of their close family members and other people so they don't too much negative attention. Although there are ones that are pretty open about it but they're probably a minority.

[Iceee]

So many people see atheists differently once they are out. "Oh, you're atheist? You must (have no morals, be a horrible person, etc.) "

It is because they fear discrimination especially if they happen to live in a place where there are a large number of religious people.

On the Internet, Athiests are pretty cool and feel strong telling others their opinions. In life, they are at Church or wherever with family :).

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[sister herb]

Maybe those atheists are looking for something? I was similar years ago.

Almost 18 years ago.

:statisfie

[sister herb]

Ooops... "see many on the streets" ?

What atheists look like?

;D

[ZJK24]

I think that a lot of the spokesperson for atheism seem to come from quite affluent backgrounds. If you listen to some of them like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens when they speak they sound like they didn't experience poverty or hardship. Whereas many religious are doing a lot for the poor people and helping them via food and shelter charities and things like that. For example I live in the UK and in my local mosque there are several advice and support schemes set up for the people that UK government is throwing out onto the streets with their elimination of welfare. Right now there are many families sleeping in the mosque because UK government has thrown them out of their homes. So I wonder what answers do the atheists have for this when they say religion has no useful purposes.

The area that I live in is a deprived area socially so maybe this is why I don't come into contact with any atheists. To me it is odd that most of these atheists have a lot of education and money and luxuries and they have a lot what poor people can only dream of but they still choose to reject God while the poorer people who you may say have lesser reason to retain their faith don't abandon him

[sister herb]

Whose are Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens anyways?

^o)

Are they atheist and from where?

[ZJK24]

Richard Dawkins is the man who says that raising children in a religion is the WORST form of child abuse!!

and yet this man is allowed to continue teaching and influencing children in the UK and have his own TV programmes, but Zakir Naik is banned and not allowed in UK?

Christopher Hitchens was atheist from England also and was known for being most harsh on Christianity, but like Dawkins he also viciously attacks Islam, all religion, and God.


So why is it acceptable for these men to make a mockery of something which many of us hold dear and go on chat shows and make a joke out of it all, but if a religious figure says something the government doesn't 'approve' of they are banished and not allowed to enter the country?

[Berries'forest]

I think that a lot of the spokesperson for atheism seem to come from quite affluent backgrounds. If you listen to some of them like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens when they speak they sound like they didn't experience poverty or hardship. Whereas many religious are doing a lot for the poor people and helping them via food and shelter charities and things like that. For example I live in the UK and in my local mosque there are several advice and support schemes set up for the people that UK government is throwing out onto the streets with their elimination of welfare. Right now there are many families sleeping in the mosque because UK government has thrown them out of their homes. So I wonder what answers do the atheists have for this when they say religion has no useful purposes.
The area that I live in is a deprived area socially so maybe this is why I don't come into contact with any atheists. To me it is odd that most of these atheists have a lot of education and money and luxuries and they have a lot what poor people can only dream of but they still choose to reject God while the poorer people who you may say have lesser reason to retain their faith don't abandon him

Atheists are always marterialists it's true. I think those people whom you're speaking of do not believe because they are too conceited and believe that life can't get any better this is why they always have a stuck up and demeaning attitude along with their atheism.They also falsely claim that they have faith in science and that it is the only means of understanding the universe. I'd rather not get into it I also think that atheism is more a mental psychology issue that combines a whole lot of things. Not all of them are like that though. Well there are some on this board who claim to be non materialists and atheists at the same time. When you are always spolied and haven't suffered or worked for anything you have you become ungrateful and your blessings become a default. There is much more faith amongst those whom are humble than those whom are arrogant. Religious people are much more activate in charitable funds. I personally believe atheists belittle religion in general and disregard the idea of worshipping God. May God be with you and May God protect and help those families. Aameen.

So I wonder what answers do the atheists have for this when they say religion has no useful purposes.

One would think that would be a good enough reason for them to atleast take religion more seriously but unfortunately some people never change their ways. They automatically dismiss faith as a comfort couch for people when calamities and hardships strike, they see it as merely an opiate for the dowtrodden. Notice the arrogance in that.

[Berries'forest]

and yet this man is allowed to continue teaching and influencing children in the UK and have his own TV programmes, but Zakir Naik is banned and not allowed in UK?

Ever since the industrial revolution things in europe started to radically change some of those things are family networks and religious beliefs. There was time when religion was deeply root seated in the society. The industrial revolution weakened that and people started developing trends of different political beliefs that funded secularism untill the religion was permanetly seperated from state affairs. How does this relate to the subject?. Most western schools have a ban on religious preaching and symbolism this why it is discouraged except in cases for there to be religious classes ones without the secular influence that is. Britain's education system is heavily influenced by the works of Charles Darwin the one who proposed the theory of evolution. Honestly sometimes I think we live in a very dangerous world but God will provide. I think it's mainly the fact the some people in the west especially governmental officials have some serious issues with religion. They think religion maybe 'dangerous' and they want to push children further and further away from God because they are materialistic people, they only believe in what they see ,taste and touch. There's a qoute that says: "Some people can look but not see, listen but not hear and I have learnt that true blindness is the blindness of inuition and you can see with your heart what your eyes cannot conceive of". The may mock and laugh at us but they are only laughing at themselves. But I think it is also about the concept of 'survival for the fittest' you know some people are sick in the soul and not the body they try to put people down by ridiculing their preciously held beliefs and claim truimph over that. It's pathetic really, the more they shall mock they closer we should hold it to out faith God willing. God will provide and in Him we should place our trust.

[ZJK24]

Atheists are always marterialists it's true. I think those people whom you're speaking of do not believ because they are too conceited and believe that life can't et any better this is why they always have a stuck up and demeaning attitude along with their atheism. Not all of them are like that though. Well there are some on this board who claim to be non materialists and atheists at the same time. When you are always spolied and haven't suffered or worked for anything you have you become ungrateful and your blessings become a default. There is much more faith amongst those whom are humble than those whom are arrogant. Religious people are much more activate in charitable funds. I personally believe atheists belittle religion in general and disregard the idea of worshipping God. May God be with you and May God protect and help those families. Aameen.

Yes I know that they can not all be this way but the thing is I never see any atheists off the internet in person to even discuss religion or the concept or God with them. The experience I have with atheists is exclusively from their online behavior which it seems to me to be quite juvenile and I don't like the way they mock people who believe in God and try to make them appear stupid or lacking basic knowledge. They usually write things like 'You like believing in an imaginary guy in the sky, believe in the tooth fairy as well?' It's this kind of thing the atheists write that shows a shameful ignorance of what God means in the life of a lot of people. Comparing God to the tooth fairy and flying teapots. Is this what helps them sleep at night??

And I strongly agree with the charity part also, although the atheists usually say they do charity I always only see religious institutions reacting to crisis and disasters both in their own country and abroad. I never see atheists raising support and awareness for the Palestinians for example although i have seen some non-Muslims like Christians and even Hindus doing it. Though a lot of atheists pride themselves on being 'Humanists' many do seem very interested in mass consumerism and materialism.

[ccc]

I think that the problem is that we were taught to think that atheism is not a type of spiritual search and to prefer any substitute to it only to have the impression that we believe in God and everything is fine. The Western Catholic view about faith is one that leads to atheism because it seems to give no alternative, because it pretends it represents the real faith and alternative. I will give you a fragment from Dostoevsky in which one of his characters, prince Myskin gives his own opinion about this issue:
" Roman Catholicism is even worse than Atheism itself, in my opinion! Yes, that's my opinion! Atheism only preaches a negation, but Catholicism goes further: it preaches a distorted Christ, a Christ calumniated and defamed by themselves, the opposite of Christ! It preaches the Antichrist, I declare it does, I assure you it does! This is the conviction I have long held, and it has distressed me, myself... Roman Catholicism cannot hold its position without universal political supremacy, and cries: 'Non possumus!' To my thinking Roman Catholicism is not even a religion, but simply the continuation of the Western Roman Empire, and everything in it is subordinated to that idea, faith to begin with. The Pope seized the earth, an earthly throne, and grasped the sword; everything has gone on in the same way since, only they have added to the sword lying, fraud, deceit, fanaticism, superstition, villainy. They have trifled with the most holy, truthful, sincere, fervent feelings of the people; they have bartered it all, all for money, for base earthly power. And isn't that the teaching of Antichrist? How could Atheism fail to come from them? Atheism has sprung from Roman Catholicism itself. It originated with them themselves. Can they have believed themselves? It has been strengthened by revulsion from them; it is begotten by their lying and their spiritual impotence! Atheism! Among us it is only the exceptional classes who don't believe, those who, as Yevgeny Pavlovitch splendidly expressed it the other day, have lost their roots. But over there, in Europe, a terrible mass of the people themselves are beginning to lose their faith — at first from darkness and lying, and now from fanaticism and hatred of the church and Christianity."

[Berries'forest]

They usually write things like 'You like believing in an imaginary guy in the sky, believe in the tooth fairy as well?' It's this kind of thing the atheists write that shows a shameful ignorance of what God means in the life of a lot of people. Comparing God to the tooth fairy and flying teapots. Is this what helps them sleep at night??

I know I think they do this on purpose and when you ask them to be more reasonable and debate with you on a more logical level. They'd brush you off saying they don't understand why you'd become so upset when you compare God to faerie and Flying spaghetti monsters, it goes the extent of them telling you (I always think they're baosting when they say this) that they have no more a problem with God's existance than that of the existance of UFOs or bedtime monsters. And ironically they have they courage to ridicule us. I think it's a cop-out though you'd be struggling to get one of them to actually sit down with you and have a serious and constructive conversation regarding religion, they have an unreasonable disfavor of religion and they can't be bothered really. I usually avoid talking with them about religion especially in real life I can't stand someone making fun of my beliefs right infront of my eyes. If you meet them online some of them are actually trolling they find it fun don't let them feed on you.

[جوري]

a Christ calumniated and defamed by themselves, the opposite of Christ! It preaches the Antichrist, I declare it does, I assure you it does!

That's how we all feel about Christianity entire so don't feel so distressed.

[ccc]

but you identify Christianity with what you prefer. I wanted to give a more natural way of understanding things than this theoretical theological manner in which most of the interfaith discussion happen. My statement is that Christianity is not The Catholic church or theology, and identifying it's message with it is useless because Catholicism is not a follower of the Christianity, as it is not any sect. I think that we should see that there is more about a religion than it's theories and that the real thing that matters is its spirit as we can see in the lives of the simple people that are not necessary theologians, but live their lives in that faith. And in catholicism there are not such examples, or there are a few, because only those which have theological concepts about life and theories spend their time in relation with religion. Islam for instance is much more practiced by people, even it is in the same way something forced, theoretical, which now become the way of practicing religion for most of the muslims, it is no surprise that islam is a religion based on many rules and prescripts.

[Iceee]

[PIE][/PIE]

If you meet them online some of them are actually trolling they find it fun don't let them feed on you.

Before I joined this forum, I used to ask my questions on Yahoo/Answers. But the community hated Islam and 1/10 answers I got was actually helpful. So many atheists and people replying so nasty:

You think that Islam is all cupcakes and sunshine, but it is NOT, unfortunately.

I almost converted to Islam many years ago. I was like you, thinking of Islam in much the same way. Over times, I discovered the ugly dark sides in Islam.
I discovered that Muhammad molested children like his 6 year old wife Aisha, also his cousins. He even had incest with his infant grandsons, al-Haran and al-Hussein. The proofs are all in the Hadiths. He did Muft'khathat on Aisha because she was TOO SMALL for sexual intercourse. You should google Muft'khathat. Or better, type that word on Youtube for its meanings.
I also discovered that Muhammad was a barbarous murderer and serial rapist. For example, he had one frail elderly woman tortured and murdered. Her name was Umm Qirfa; consult the Hadiths on that if you please. Guess how she died. She was tied to the camels and quartered thereupon. During torture, she screamed on in agony while Muhammad & his men laughed and jeered. After quartered alive, she was beheaded. This shows how barbaric Muhammad; he was no man of honour when he tortured defenceless elderly people.

So then I came to this site to find answers which I got Alhumdulillah. I e-mailed the user who sent me the nasty message and gave him the answer to this and found his lies. He/She replied by saying that I am a pervert. I replied back saying how and why he/she came to that conclusion. That person never replied.

[جوري]

My statement is that Christianity is not The Catholic church or theology,

And we're sure catholics feel you are heretical just the same, they also proclaim to be the oldest church, so in the end who cares of your opinion if you are already opining in heresy?

best,

[ccc]

if you read what i say, i contest this way of looking into religion. However, the fact that catholics say that i am in heresy does not make me heretical, and even if i would be, i only expressed some opinions not pretended infaibility.I con****ed exactly this attitude which does not have any place for the truth, only for i am not heretical so i am the truth

[جوري]

and I believe I have done the same however I can substantiate my opinion given that at the end of the day both you and the Catholics worship a self immolating mangod so it doesn't matter if you do it in velvet robes and ancient rings and incense or by singing and gyrating your way through your sermons. It is all the same!

best,

[IAmZamzam]

Well there are some on this board who claim to be non materialists and atheists at the same time.

Well, if you’re talking about any of the conversations where I was present then what they meant by “not all atheists are materialists” was “they’re not all physicalists”. As in “not all of them believe that only the physical world exists”. In which case I still say that I’ll believe it when I see it. There may be a few odd cases here and there but I don’t know if I can think of any off the top of my head. Even Buddhists believe in devas.

They usually write things like 'You like believing in an imaginary guy in the sky, believe in the tooth fairy as well?' It's this kind of thing the atheists write that shows a shameful ignorance of what God means in the life of a lot of people. Comparing God to the tooth fairy and flying teapots. Is this what helps them sleep at night??

They’ll tell you that they’re really trying to prove some purely non-judgmental intellectual point. They’re deceiving themselves. But what do intentions even matter when it comes to something like this? It’s an endlessly repeating pattern throughout history. How many times does The Qur’an say, “And when our signs are shown to the unbelievers, he says, ‘Fairy tales of the ancients!'”

And I strongly agree with the charity part also, although the atheists usually say they do charity I always only see religious institutions reacting to crisis and disasters both in their own country and abroad. I never see atheists raising support and awareness for the Palestinians for example although i have seen some non-Muslims like Christians and even Hindus doing it.

One statistic I’ve come across says that atheists are more charitable or something one-on-one, but another one says that on a larger scale those areas which are more strongly religious tend to be more giving on the whole in terms of the community. I don’t know what the whole truth is and personally I make it a rule never to fully trust any surveys conducted on a topic related to religion or politics. Think about it: for what possible reason would someone without an agenda do a study like that? A genuine reason, I mean, and not prattle and waffle like “general advancement of knowledge of the human psyche on the subject of yada yada”?

[Berries'forest]

Before I joined this forum, I used to ask my questions on Yahoo/Answers. But the community hated Islam and 1/10 answers I got was actually helpful. So many atheists and people replying so nasty: You think that Islam is all cupcakes and sunshine, but it is NOT, unfortunately. I almost converted to Islam many years ago. I was like you, thinking of Islam in much the same way. Over times, I discovered the ugly dark sides in Islam. I discovered that Muhammad molested children like his 6 year old wife Aisha, also his cousins. He even had incest with his infant grandsons, al-Haran and al-Hussein. The proofs are all in the Hadiths. He did Muft'khathat on Aisha because she was TOO SMALL for sexual intercourse. You should google Muft'khathat. Or better, type that word on Youtube for its meanings. I also discovered that Muhammad was a barbarous murderer and serial rapist. For example, he had one frail elderly woman tortured and murdered. Her name was Umm Qirfa; consult the Hadiths on that if you please. Guess how she died. She was tied to the camels and quartered thereupon. During torture, she screamed on in agony while Muhammad & his men laughed and jeered. After quartered alive, she was beheaded. This shows how barbaric Muhammad; he was no man of honour when he tortured defenceless elderly people. So then I came to this site to find answers which I got Alhumdulillah. I e-mailed the user who sent me the nasty message and gave him the answer to this and found his lies. He/She replied by saying that I am a pervert. I replied back saying how and why he/she came to that conclusion. That person never replied.

Yahoo answers never provides helpful material in the religious setion. I find it's filled with fundamental radical christians and over the swing atheists. It's good to know you don't ask them any religious questions over there. Don't let them get to you the person whom called you that is probably describing themself. I don't know where they came up with these false allegations. May Allah help them see the truth and follow it.

[glo]

I know several atheists in real life.
I probably know more than I realise - it's just that the topic of religion and faith doesn't always come up in conversation ...

As a side note, how do we know that people we meet in our mosques and churches are actual believers and that they aren't just 'toeing the line' and trying to fit in culturally?

[tearose]

how do we know that people we meet in our mosques and churches are actual believers and that they aren't just 'toeing the line' and trying to fit in culturally?

Greetings,

I can't speak for people in churches but I would never think of somebody I met in the mosque as possibly not being a believer. We must always assume the best about other Muslims even if only Allah knows what is really in their hearts.

[glo]

Greetings,

I can't speak for people in churches but I would never think of somebody I met in the mosque as possibly not being a believer. We must always assume the best about other Muslims even if only Allah knows what is really in their hearts.

Of course we should assume the best of people, but we simply don't know. We can only see how they present on the outside, but only God knows what's in their hearts.

The point I am trying to make is that we simply cannot make such judgments on people. Atheists are not just the people who declare loudly that they don't believe in God. They may be amongst us all the time and simply not say for fear of judgment or negative consequences ... :nervous:

[Ahmad H]

This thread is so weird. Asking the question if there are atheists or not? I see so many Atheists around it's not even funny. I live in Canada and it seems like everyone who is Christian is turning to an Atheist. I estimate that in two or three generations Christianity will have paled into complete insignificance here in Canada. At the rate that everyone is becoming Atheist, even Agnostic, I wonder sometimes about the state of the world in general.

It is a serious problem that so many people are becoming Atheists. I have seen this problem growing recently. I argued with a guy who was Muslim and became Atheist, and he requested me to meet him to teach him about Islam. The kid (I say that cause he was just finishing high school) acted so arrogant as if he knew everything. he pulled out anti-Islamic websites on his phone and tried to ask questions using those and told me to answer them for him. Then when I answered him, he would raise questions based on his opinion. HIS OPINION. Just comes to show Atheists have no logic when it comes to religion. They just don't understand it.

But I see many Atheists around. I really don't know why anyone has a hard time finding them. I probably know almost as many Atheists as I do Christians. Maybe more. The sad part is that there are still Muslims who are in danger of becoming Atheist because of the stupid anti-Islamic websites that are on the internet. I won't name them because I don't want to advertise them. They are around and I hope everyone knowledgeable here does their best to counter those websites when they see someone look at them. Don't take them lightly. Be active and stop the spread of the poison which the Islamophobes try to inject into the minds of our young generation. It is the duty of every Muslim to look after his/her brothers and sisters.

[Iceee]

Salaam.

This thread is so weird. Asking the question if there are atheists or not? I see so many Atheists around it's not even funny. I live in Canada and it seems like everyone who is Christian is turning to an Atheist. I estimate that in two or three generations Christianity will have paled into complete insignificance here in Canada. At the rate that everyone is becoming Atheist, even Agnostic, I wonder sometimes about the state of the world in general.

I live in Toronto, Canada. A good Christian friend of mine said that as a kid, the Church he attended was always full on Sunday Service. You had to come 30 minutes early to get a good seat. Nowadays, he says that you can come directly as the pastor is about to start talking and you can get a seat in the third row. I asked him whether it was because people came late, and he said no.

It was because we live in a whole new society where people are living a happy life and they don't need religion anymore to protect them.

There are so many atheists in my high school, even Muslims at my school who are friends of mine are leaving religion, eating pork, dating girls, trying out drugs etc. The thing is, when you bring up religion they will counter it right away. Whatever you say, they have something to counter it from. Now, I see my friends doing so many things but I don't say anything because nothing can bring them back.

I would think the high divorce rate in North America would bring people back to religion, whether it was Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, but as you can see, it doesn't.

There are a lot of atheists in cities like Toronto, just not thought about.

[Sothis Girl]

I used to be agnostic in disguise. Yet my ID card showed "Islam" back then. I was known in public as "born muslim". People just say horrible things about religion-less and God-less people, thinking they must be immoral animals. Better stay far from conflict.

[Pygoscelis]

The point I am trying to make is that we simply cannot make such judgments on people. Atheists are not just the people who declare loudly that they don't believe in God. They may be amongst us all the time and simply not say for fear of judgment or negative consequences ... :nervous:

I can pretty much guarantee it. You know more atheists than you think you do. And you may be surprise how easily they will come out to other atheists but not to you guys. This is especially common in highly religious areas of the world, where atheists are shunned and deemed evil simply for lacking belief.

Even where atheism is common, such as where I live (near Toronto as the poster above), many atheists will hide it from you, because they know their friends, family, or loved ones worry about them going to hell and they don't want to cause them grief. I did this for both of my grandmothers, who would have been absolutely terrified and worried sick if they had known I am not a Christian.

This is also very common in children who are not independent of their parents. Many many atheist children fear telling their parents they don't believe in this stuff, fearing what would happen if they did. Coming out as an atheist is sort of similar to coming out as gay, or telling somebody online that you are a Muslim for that matter. You often get an instant reaction, full of ignorant prejudices, and often hatred. The reaction can be something you simply don't want to deal with. And unlike homosexuals pretending to be straight and forgoing their sexuality, or Muslims pretending to not be Muslims and insulting their faith, atheists really don't lose a whole lot by pretending to be religious.

Oh, and yes of course online there are a lot of atheist trolls. Some people get off on angering others, and religion is a very easy button to push. And don't think for a second that it doesn't come in both directions (you may be surprised at some of the hate filled private messages I have gotten over the years for saying I don't believe). If you are talking about somebody who died like in that example and it says "RIP" at the end and some atheist troll rudely says "God doesn't exist!" - - of course he's trolling. What other reason can there be for that other than for him to be trying to ruffle some feathers? Meanwhile, you can be pretty certain that there are a dozen or more other atheists reading who didn't do that and who didn't think religion was relevant.

Most of us atheists see the religious as usually harmless, sometimes silly, sometimes dangerous, and often thin skinned. I won't walk on eggshells to avoid offending the religious, nor should I have to, but I won't go out of my way to be rude or hateful towards them either, and most atheists I know are that way.

And yes, we walk amongst you, often silently. The OP thinks he doesn't know any atheists? I call all but guarantee he does. He just doesn't know it.

[Berries'forest]

And yes, we walk amongst you, often silently. The OP thinks he doesn't know any atheists? I call all but guarantee he does. He just doesn't know it.

How would you be so sure?.

[Pygoscelis]

Sorry "Call but guarantee it" was meant to read "Can all but guarantee it". I'm sleepy :)

And how do I know? Because I know lots and lots of closet atheists, from all around the world, and sometimes I have been one myself. We're everywhere. You can't be sure we aren't in your family or your circle of friends. Odds are very good that we are.

Believe it or not, not only can we be in your mosques, churches and temples pretending to believe, but we can even be within the clergy:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...ing-Clergy.pdf

[Indian Bro]

Sorry "Call but guarantee it" was meant to read "Can all but guarantee it". I'm sleepy :)

And how do I know? Because I know lots and lots of closet atheists, from all around the world, and sometimes I have been one myself. We're everywhere. You can't be sure we aren't in your family or your circle of friends. Odds are very good that we are.

Believe it or not, not only can we be in your mosques, churches and temples pretending to believe, but we can even be within the clergy:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...ing-Clergy.pdf

Hi Pygoscelis

From my experience, I've encountered more agnostics than atheists. I live in India, one of the most culturally divers countries in the world and I've spoken to many people about their beliefs (non-Muslims) but I have yet to stumble upon an atheists yet, only agnostics. I'm not say atheists don't exist, but I think they're much more tough to find compared to agnostics. If you ask me why I think so, it's because I feel agnosticism is a much more rational and logical than atheism.

[Berries'forest]

You can't be sure we aren't in your family or your circle of friends. Odds are very good that we are.
Believe it or not, not only can we be in your mosques, churches and temples pretending to believe, but we can even be within the clergy:

That would be scary....
But they wouldn't be believers if they are concealing their disbelief and being an atheist and religious clergy at the same time is uncalled for why can't a person find another job and leave that position to those whom are turthfully believing.

[ZJK24]

This thread is so weird. Asking the question if there are atheists or not? I see so many Atheists around it's not even funny. I live in Canada and it seems like everyone who is Christian is turning to an Atheist. I estimate that in two or three generations Christianity will have paled into complete insignificance here in Canada. At the rate that everyone is becoming Atheist, even Agnostic, I wonder sometimes about the state of the world in general.

It is a serious problem that so many people are becoming Atheists. I have seen this problem growing recently. I argued with a guy who was Muslim and became Atheist, and he requested me to meet him to teach him about Islam. The kid (I say that cause he was just finishing high school) acted so arrogant as if he knew everything. he pulled out anti-Islamic websites on his phone and tried to ask questions using those and told me to answer them for him. Then when I answered him, he would raise questions based on his opinion. HIS OPINION. Just comes to show Atheists have no logic when it comes to religion. They just don't understand it.

But I see many Atheists around. I really don't know why anyone has a hard time finding them. I probably know almost as many Atheists as I do Christians. Maybe more. The sad part is that there are still Muslims who are in danger of becoming Atheist because of the stupid anti-Islamic websites that are on the internet. I won't name them because I don't want to advertise them. They are around and I hope everyone knowledgeable here does their best to counter those websites when they see someone look at them. Don't take them lightly. Be active and stop the spread of the poison which the Islamophobes try to inject into the minds of our young generation. It is the duty of every Muslim to look after his/her brothers and sisters.

Yes you are right that it is much more the Christians than Muslims who are becoming atheist BOTH online and in real life. But still in my immediate location i regularly see the churches very active as well as the mosques and I always see outside shops Muslims and Christian preaching about who Jesus is and such. even I see many white British people who are perhaps not religious at all, when you here them speak in everyday conversation or on buses/trains about anything related to afterlife or God they still always say 'I believe there is something more than just this, I believe we were created by someone' Just in real life I never encounter any of those atheists that are on Youtube and Yahoo answers - the ones that harshly mock and ridicule religious people and are absolutely hardened and cannot be changed from their disbelief, the ones that loudly demand 'I want evidence' and they say you are anti-science.

I don't know maybe because if I was studying at university or something I may encounter more atheists personally and they are always on chat/debate shows also mocking people like local Muslim leaders but in my immediate area in person no.

I know that if I want to know about who is Jesus I can go across the street and get answers from both elder Muslims and Christians but the atheists just like to gang up on people online and that's why I thought of atheism as some online trend not reflective of reality.

[ZJK24]

Most of us atheists see the religious as usually harmless

So how come someone like Richard Dawkins considers raising a child in religion to be the WORST form of child abuse? And then those followers of Dawkins will repeat that same thing over and over.

Also if you ever heard someone like Christopher Hitchens speak about religions he will take the position that religion should be completely eroded from society and causes nothing but problems and wars. How then can religion and faith in God be harmless if these men are saying it deserves to be eliminated?

Remmeber when Hitchens spoke about Salman Rushdie, he spoke so harshly of Islam and he didn't even just reserve his attacks for the 'fundamentalists'. And Hitchens was furious that Rushdie had his book burnt here in the UK while paying no attention to what Rushdie did, as if just because that mattered to Muslims it means that 'educated' smarter atheist scientists and philosophers should not be concerned with it, and should only focus on the book being burnt.

Even many of those British atheist writers who support Rushdie like Hanif Kureishi they spoke about Islam in terms of children believing in Santa and the tooth fairy. I mean do these 'intellectual' atheists just think of people of faith as being like a child then?

[Sothis Girl]

Most of us atheists see the religious as usually harmless, sometimes silly, sometimes dangerous, and often thin skinned. I won't walk on eggshells to avoid offending the religious, nor should I have to, but I won't go out of my way to be rude or hateful towards them either, and most atheists I know are that way.

And yes, we walk amongst you, often silently.

As I was one (but as agnostic) I can relate to this. My own family didn't really know I was that far to disbelieving, all they just knew I was "really lazy to offer salaah". For several reasons I viewed organized religions as corrupted, but of course had no gut to openly express it. Why risking myself to be treated like dirt for something that's actually really, really personal?

Only by Allah's Mercy I can get back, and with no pretending. Though now I'm still highly skeptical to religious authority, which made me despised organized religions in the first place, I don't really give a darn about it anymore. I'm a servant of Allah, and that's all that matters.

[glo]

This is also very common in children who are not independent of their parents. Many many atheist children fear telling their parents they don't believe in this stuff, fearing what would happen if they did. Coming out as an atheist is sort of similar to coming out as gay, or telling somebody online that you are a Muslim for that matter. You often get an instant reaction, full of ignorant prejudices, and often hatred. The reaction can be something you simply don't want to deal with. And unlike homosexuals pretending to be straight and forgoing their sexuality, or Muslims pretending to not be Muslims and insulting their faith, atheists really don't lose a whole lot by pretending to be religious.

This is something I like about secular societies. It reduces the pressure on people to conform.

The church attendance in our church on an average Sunday morning is around 60 people.
I am sure that 50 years ago there were many more people in the Sunday morning congregation, and 100 years ago the church would have been full.
But what measure is that?
I think back then there was a much greater pressure to conform.

Today I am sure that the people who come to church are coming because they want to, not because they feel they have to. Okay there may be the odd teenager who comes under parental duress - but even then that is not evident.
The point is, people are free to come or to stay at home.

In addition, not everybody who attends our church considers themselves Christian. Some are on the fringes of Christianity, others might not call themselves Christian at all. And still they come. Whatever their reasons, they can come as they are, participate in the religious ceremony or not, without being judged or treated differently for it.

To give and example, my 19-year-old daughter is not a church-goer. I am not even sure that she believes in God. She describes herself as an agnostic. In September she started to volunteer at our church's weekly after-school club. She is arty, so she does the arts and crafts and has less to do with the Bible teaching.
Yesterday she was asked whether she could help this morning with the children's group at the church service, because it was Easter Sunday and more children than usual were expected.
So she came along.
It was the first time that she has attended a church service in the last 9 years or so, since my husband put his foot down and decided that he did not want his children to go to church.
Being 'unchurched' much during the service was quite alien to my daughter, but she felt comfortable nonetheless. For example, she did not take part in the communion (when people share bread and wine) because that didn't seem right to her.
Most importantly, she felt made welcome and very much accepted.
Will she go again? I don't know. But I know that if she does, people will be happy to see her – just as she is!

And why wouldn't they?
I love my daughter. She is a great young woman! I will love her, whether she decides to become a Christian, an atheist or a Muslim, or decides to remain an agnostic.

[Pygoscelis]

That would be scary....
But they wouldn't be believers if they are concealing their disbelief and being an atheist and religious clergy at the same time is uncalled for why can't a person find another job and leave that position to those whom are turthfully believing.

Excellent point, and one that has been made and that they addressed following the paper linked to above. The answer is that it simply isn't that easy. Keep in mind that these people have based their entire lives around God often, including the financial security of themselves and their families. Also keep in mind the impact that it may have on believers for their clergy, who are often role models of faith to them, to come out as atheists all of a sudden. It isn't something you'd want to do abruptly or without the greatest of care.

Here is a link to the clergy project. It is a group and charity founded to help these no longer believing clergy to move out and leave that position to those whom are truthfully
believing.

http://www.clergyproject.org/news/

[Pygoscelis]

So how come someone like Richard Dawkins considers raising a child in religion to be the WORST form of child abuse? And then those followers of Dawkins will repeat that same thing over and over.

Also if you ever heard someone like Christopher Hitchens speak about religions he will take the position that religion should be completely eroded from society and causes nothing but problems and wars. How then can religion and faith in God be harmless if these men are saying it deserves to be eliminated?

Simple. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are not most atheists. For every atheist I know that touts them there are at least four or five I know that roll their eyes at them.

Sometimes, I'll admit, I find Hitchens funny. He had a razor wit and is a good read to vent after some religious person has done something nasty. But mostly, I think he does more harm than good and that atheists shouldn't follow his example.

Dawkins I actually respect greatly as a writer about biology. Selfish Gene and Extended Phenotype and his various books on evolution are excellent reads. I'm not sure if I fully buy into his ideas, but they are well thought out and written and I enjoy reading him. He should stay away from talking about religion and leave that to guys like Neil Degrasse Tyson (a hero of mine).

[Pygoscelis]

glo,

I really enjoy reading your posts. You sound like a wonderful mother and a great person. I wish all religious people were like you.

I understand where your daughter is coming from. I have been to religious buildings and attended religious ceremonies three times in the past two years. I agree that had the social pressure been stronger here I would have had to go a lot more, and I may have come to resent it. Since the pressure is so low, when I do go I enjoy it as a cultural learning experience. I treat it the same way I would treat attending a native american ceremony. I am a quiet observer, extremely respectful while there, confused by some of the ceremonies and impressed by others. I had a thread on here a while ago about having visited a Catholic church and witnessing the eucharist and other religious rites.

[Pygoscelis]

From my experience, I've encountered more agnostics than atheists.

I'm guessing our difference here is as much semantics than experience. "Atheist" and "Agnostic" have varying meanings.

[Berries'forest]

that they addressed following the paper linked to above. The answer is that it simply isn't that easy. Keep in mind that these people have based their entire lives around God often, including the financial security of themselves and their families. Also keep in mind the impact that it may have on believers for their clergy, who are often role models of faith to them, to come out as atheists all of a sudden. It isn't something you'd want to do abruptly or without the greatest of care.

The link you gave before was too long to read at once. There's only so mucha person can read but the first part and as far as I've been reading it is centralized on solely christian experiences non other. I'm not sure it covers the entire religious population. You have a point on the dismay and surprise it may cause to people who see them as role models though.

[Ahmad H]

Salaam.

I live in Toronto, Canada.

How interesting. Then you know exactly what I am talking about, considering what you wrote. When I became aware of the seriousness of this problem my heart started to bleed from the reality of whats going on.

If these Atheists counter each argument with a philosophical one, then the only path left is to know how to best demonstrate the miracle of the Holy Qur'an. This is the method I choose to learn for a good period of my life. I hope that, In sha 'Allah, I learn it well enough that I can demonstrate the miracle of each Ayat of the Holy Qur'an and know its explanation well. Seeing this problem arise has made me only want to be a stronger Muslim. This is a very serious Fitnah in this age, and anyone who thinks it'll pass them by has to think again.

I don't hate Atheists, but i hate Atheism. So to all Atheists who may read my posts here, don't take offense. I just don't like it when I see Muslims falling into this way of thinking is all. I hope all of you see the beauty of Islam and turn to it. And I hope to God that none of you turned Atheist because of some anti-Islamic websites. That would be the real tragedy in my humble opinion.

[glo]

I am a quiet observer, extremely respectful while there, confused by some of the ceremonies and impressed by others. I had a thread on here a while ago about having visited a Catholic church and witnessing the eucharist and other religious rites.

I remember your post about attending a Catholic service.

My husband is a bit like that. It's a long time since he has attended a church service and I don't think he would now because he would feel insincere and hypocritical. But when we visit a church building he is always much more respectful than I am. I guess that's because he feels like a 'visitor' in a church, and therefore like somebody who should be at his best behavior - whereas I behave like I am 'at home', because that's what I am.

[Futuwwa]

They are cowards. The internet gives them a place where they can feel tough with no consequences.

Courage is to be flamboyantly extrovert about what you are, and accept any consequences, come what may, even social exclusion or persecution?

Then I suppose those Christians who hid in Roman catacombs must have been the biggest cowards of all.

[Pygoscelis]

They are cowards. The internet gives them a place where they can feel tough with no consequences.

Got it. You want more in your face atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. I'll see if I can find some for you and bring them here....

Naw. You don't really want that.

You just want us to all stand up and tie ourselves to posts so you can burn us and scream "INFIDEEEEL!"

Or would you prefer we take over the place and feed you to lions like Pagans did? Wait? What? Where did you go all of a sudden? Why did you mask your IP and post under a screen name? The lions are hungry! We need you! Stop posting in a place where you can feel tough with no consequences!

[ardianto]

Calm down Pygo, calm down. :)

If you were Muslim you would be familiar with comments in internet that mock Islam and prophet Muhammad (saw). I'm sure, those cowards are not atheists, but Christians.

But of course, there many tolerant Christians too.

[Pygoscelis]

No worries. I am always calm. I just wanted to hold up a mirror for this fellow.

[Vito]

It's like there are so many atheists existing on the internet in a trend, but in the real world not too many around where I live.

What about you?

All of my experience with so called atheists have been on non religious forums (with the exception of this one). A lot of people where I live believe in a higher power but follow no religion and are pretty respectful people. Never met a person who "believed in nothing" in person though. I find it ironic they believe religions to be the root of all evil yet whenever a religious thread pops up they insist on posting the most vulgar of words, drawings, and videos. They want religious people to be more accepting and tolerant to other people's beliefs yet, hypocritically, they feel they are the exception to the rule. I'm not sure why anyone would want to meet someone like that in person.

Again, I'm speaking on my experience from non religious forums.

[ardianto]

Today I spoke with a Christian man. I knew he is Christian because he wore cross necklace, symbol of Christianity. If he didn't wear cross necklace, I would not know he is Christian.

So, how could I know someone that I see on the street is atheist if he doesn't wear symbol of atheism?

[glo]

Courage is to be flamboyantly extrovert about what you are, and accept any consequences, come what may, even social exclusion or persecution?

I think courage can also be quiet and calm:

cour·age (kûrj, kr-)
n.
The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/courage

[Iceee]

So, how could I know someone that I see on the street is atheist if he doesn't wear symbol of atheism?

An atheist is sitting in a row boat on the middle of a lake, fishing peacefully and minding his own business.

All of a sudden, a purple three-headed dragon pops up out of the lake and snatches up the row boat in its massive jaws.

The atheist shouts "Oh God, help me!"

The whole scene freezes mid-frame and a booming voice comes out of the sky.

"Why should I help you when you did not believe in me?"

The atheist says, "Come on, give me a break. A minute ago I didn't believe in purple three-headed dragons either."


In conclusion, you don't know. :D

[GodIsAll]

Ooops... "see many on the streets" ?

What atheists look like?

;D

I've heard they have horns and webbed fingers. But, that just may be a rumor.:p

[GodIsAll]

All of my experience with so called atheists have been on non religious forums (with the exception of this one). A lot of people where I live believe in a higher power but follow no religion and are pretty respectful people. Never met a person who "believed in nothing" in person though. I find it ironic they believe religions to be the root of all evil yet whenever a religious thread pops up they insist on posting the most vulgar of words, drawings, and videos. They want religious people to be more accepting and tolerant to other people's beliefs yet, hypocritically, they feel they are the exception to the rule. I'm not sure why anyone would want to meet someone like that in person.

Again, I'm speaking on my experience from non religious forums.

This can be true. But not always.