7 more bloggers to be arrested

[Souljette]

Wednesday, April 03, 2013
HURTING RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT
7 more bloggers to be arrested: Home minister
Govt committee identifies 11 bloggers
Star Online Report



This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan

This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan

The home ministry has identified 11 bloggers “who have hurt religious sentiment of Muslims through their writings”, Home Minister MK Alamgir has informed.

“Four of them have so far been arrested while efforts are on to capture the others,” he told journalists after a high-profile meeting at the ministry on Wednesday.

Deputy Leader of the House Syeda Sajeda Chowdhury, Food Minister Abdur Razzaque, Awami League Joint General Secretary Mahbubul Alam Hanif, Shipping Minister Shahjahan Khan, Forests Minister Hasan Mahmud, State Minister for Law Qamrul Islam and State Minister for LGRD Jahangir Kabir Nanak were present at the meeting.

Details of the meeting that discussed the latest situation of the country could not be known immediately.

Police arrested blogger Asif Mohiuddin at Segunbagicha in the capital on Wednesday, a day after three others were held for posting “derogatory comments about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)” on the Internet.

The arrests came amid strong criticism over the government role, which many termed as “submissive”, following some radical Islamist organisations’ threat of unleashing anarchy if “atheist bloggers are not hanged”.

Many think the arrests would add further to the growing frustration of the youths and online activists, who have been agitating since February 5 demanding death penalty of war criminals, over the government role.

In the night of January 13, some miscreants attacked Asif with knives as he was entering his office in Uttara, leaving him seriously injured. He had to stay in hospital for a month.

On Monday, police arrested four members of Ansarullah Bengali Team, a newly-launched militant organisation, from different parts of the city ‘for attempting to murder’ Asif.

In an overnight drive on Monday, law enforcers arrested three bloggers, including a Dhaka University student, from different areas of the capital on the same allegation.

Hours after the arrest, they were each placed on a seven-day remand in a case filed for making disparaging comments about Islam and the Prophet.

On February 15, blogger Ahmed Rajib Haider was brutally killed by miscreants in front of their Mirpur residence. Later, police arrested five youths in connection with the murder.

Radical Islamist groups have been campaigning against the Shahbagh movement initiated by the bloggers.

Hefajat-e Islam, a so-called Islamist organisation instrumental to this end, will march towards Dhaka on April 6 and have threatened of non-stop shutdown and letting loose 313 members of suicide squad if the government obstructs its march.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


better late than never . Alhamdulillah BD Govt. has arrested few .

In'sha Allah other atheists bloggers who insulted Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh , Mother of the beleivers , respected Shahabas will also be arressted and get due punishment.

[Pygoscelis]

better late than never . Alhamdulillah BD Govt. has arrested few .

In'sha Allah other atheists bloggers who insulted Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh , Mother of the beleivers , respected Shahabas will also be arressted and get due punishment.

Really? Your reaction is to ignore the murders and death threats and threats of suicide squads, while urging for more punishment to anybody who dares say anything unsupportive of your religion?

This is a perfect thread to have alongside the NYC bus add thread.

It shows both radical extremes.

As for the article itself, I think these anti-muslim writers are both brave and stupid. It may be for the best that they are taken in, for their own protection from the mobs.

[Scimitar]

This is just dumb... it's A BLOG ON THE NET. Who cares...

.... Bangaldesh govt is pushing an exercise to separate the radical right wing extreme groups (they have to create them first, you see?) from the moderate ones - it's a plot to please USA. Obvious.

This is just another elaborate media hyped witch hunt.

Why can't no one else see right through this?

Sheesh

Scimi

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[Karl]

Good news



How can these people claim to defend Allah and our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) but at the same time go against Shariah? Suicide and murder is a major sin! I don't know where these idiots get their rulings from because its got absolutely NOTHING to do with Islam.

Desperate needs call for desparate deeds, this bunch may be more passionate than perfect. Maybe this is a sign of revolution in the wind. The shills to the West in government are probably starting to sweat. Those bloggers are probably on a CIA payroll.
How low can these bloggers get insulting a man that has been dead for over a thousand years. Why don't they insult someone who can fight back.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


it's ok if one wants to be an atheist . But I wonder , how come BD athiests love to attack only Islam , Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh and his companions , Mother Khadeja ra ? I have not seen condemning them Prophet Jesus pbuh , Lord Buddha , Lord Ram and religious figures of other faiths.

U won't believe how nasty language they used against our beloved Prophet pbuh . There must be a conspiracy against Islam . An individual / a small group can't do this if they are not backed by some powerful org.

I hope , BD Govt. will find out who is really behind of these anti Islmaic blogs .

I m not in favour of suicide squads but I m happy that at least there is a protest against it .

[Karl]

This is just dumb... it's A BLOG ON THE NET. Who cares...

.... Bangaldesh govt is pushing an exercise to separate the radical right wing extreme groups (they have to create them first, you see?) from the moderate ones - it's a plot to please USA. Obvious.

This is just another elaborate media hyped witch hunt.

Why can't no one else see right through this?

Sheesh

Scimi

Blasphemy is a serious crime. Bangladesh has enough problems with flooding and overcrowding, it doesn't need blogging blasphemers bringing down the wrath of God on the land.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:



Protest in Chittagong , Sylhet , Dhaka

[Pygoscelis]

When the primary concern of muslims in threads like these appears to be blasphemy against the prophet, instead of violence, hatred, murder, and suicide attacks being done in the name of Islam (both doing direct harm and slandering the religion), is it really any mystery why these bloggers target Islam more than Christianity, Hinduism, or Bhudism? Your initial reaction to the news story explains exactly why people fear Islam. It shouldn't be at all surprising.

[marwen]

Protest in Chittagong , Sylhet , Dhaka

Sister, what is written in the posters ?

[abcdcool2012]

Wednesday, April 03, 2013
HURTING RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT
7 more bloggers to be arrested: Home minister
Govt committee identifies 11 bloggers
Star Online Report



This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan

This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan

The home ministry has identified 11 bloggers “who have hurt religious sentiment of Muslims through their writings”, Home Minister MK Alamgir has informed.

“Four of them have so far been arrested while efforts are on to capture the others,” he told journalists after a high-profile meeting at the ministry on Wednesday.

Deputy Leader of the House Syeda Sajeda Chowdhury, Food Minister Abdur Razzaque, Awami League Joint General Secretary Mahbubul Alam Hanif, Shipping Minister Shahjahan Khan, Forests Minister Hasan Mahmud, State Minister for Law Qamrul Islam and State Minister for LGRD Jahangir Kabir Nanak were present at the meeting.

Details of the meeting that discussed the latest situation of the country could not be known immediately.

Police arrested blogger Asif Mohiuddin at Segunbagicha in the capital on Wednesday, a day after three others were held for posting “derogatory comments about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)” on the Internet.

The arrests came amid strong criticism over the government role, which many termed as “submissive”, following some radical Islamist organisations’ threat of unleashing anarchy if “atheist bloggers are not hanged”.

Many think the arrests would add further to the growing frustration of the youths and online activists, who have been agitating since February 5 demanding death penalty of war criminals, over the government role.

In the night of January 13, some miscreants attacked Asif with knives as he was entering his office in Uttara, leaving him seriously injured. He had to stay in hospital for a month.

On Monday, police arrested four members of Ansarullah Bengali Team, a newly-launched militant organisation, from different parts of the city ‘for attempting to murder’ Asif.

In an overnight drive on Monday, law enforcers arrested three bloggers, including a Dhaka University student, from different areas of the capital on the same allegation.

Hours after the arrest, they were each placed on a seven-day remand in a case filed for making disparaging comments about Islam and the Prophet.

On February 15, blogger Ahmed Rajib Haider was brutally killed by miscreants in front of their Mirpur residence. Later, police arrested five youths in connection with the murder.

Radical Islamist groups have been campaigning against the Shahbagh movement initiated by the bloggers.

Hefajat-e Islam, a so-called Islamist organisation instrumental to this end, will march towards Dhaka on April 6 and have threatened of non-stop shutdown and letting loose 313 members of suicide squad if the government obstructs its march.

সব আপরাধিদেরই যখন বিচার হচ্ছে তাহলে এই বেয়াদব ব্লগাররাও কেন বাদ যাবে ?

[Futuwwa]

it's ok if one wants to be an atheist . But I wonder , how come BD athiests love to attack only Islam , Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh and his companions , Mother Khadeja ra ? I have not seen condemning them Prophet Jesus pbuh , Lord Buddha , Lord Ram and religious figures of other faiths.

Western (especially American) Atheists tend to be primarily preoccupied with Christianity. They, just like the Bengali atheists, would rather oppose the religion that dominates their own society than one which has a negligible effect on them.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

Your initial reaction to the news story explains exactly why people fear Islam. It shouldn't be at all surprising.

huh , so u beleive it's a right of atheists to write fake stories in nasty language against Prophet Muhammed pbuh , companions of him , his wife who is mother of the believers and Muslims should watch it silenlty ? That's not fair .

Yes , Muslim should raise their voice against all evils. If they don't do it , it does not mean atheiests have a right to insult Islam and Prophet Muhammed pbuh.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

Sister, what is written in the posters ?

6th April is long March , Long March towards Dhaka by the call of Hefazit e Islam : make it a success ; Hang the atheist bloggers ( it's not seen in these pic )

[marwen]

It's good to see muslims in Bangladesh don't remain silent when Islam is attacked, and government sould be pushed to stop these offenses and provocation against muslims in a muslim country.

[Scimitar]

True bro Marwen,

but wasn't the BD govt shooting down unarmed Muslims quite recently?

It gets to a stage where the people do not trust that the govt is there for the people - and start to believe that the govt is only their to increase the gap in the rich/poor divide.

I'm not a sexist, but what I will say next may make me appear so:

The Prophet pbuh warned us in hadeeth of the following - ."those who entrust their affairs to a woman shall never know prosperity" (Bukhari and the Musnad of Imam Ahmed)

Cue Shaikh Hasina, the cold poker face politician & PM of Bangladesh who turned her back thousands upon thousands of Muslims who had a right to land in Bangladesh, and left them to die at the hands of Buddhist extremists in Burma/Miyanmar.

This is the same leader, she's not what I would call a "typical Muslim" no... not at all.

Scimi

[Independent]

This doesn't make sense.

There were many hundred of thousands of people demonstrating against the Jamaat-e-Islami leaders who are suspected of crimes in the 1971 independence war. They are not (for the most part) atheists and religion wasn't the main issue. It's not even clear how many of the bloggers are actually atheist either. So why is blasphemy suddenly a big issue, when the protests were all about war crimes?

Surely, it is to distract attention and protect Jamaat-e-Islami leaders from prosecution - which it has successfully achieved.

I can see what's in it for Jamaat-e-Islami. The most puzzling element is why the Government seems to be going along with them in arresting the bloggers, even though it was the Government themselves who began the prosecutions.

There must be some kind of deal going on behind the scenes between the Government and Jamaat-e-Islami. The bloggers are the fall guys.

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This is great news. These bloggers aren't simply "critical" of Islam as someone mentioned, they're very much insulting, causing confusing and spreading hatred. They're not up for a debate, instead, they just end up creating blogs to get a reaction from Muslims.

Being arrested is like a slap on the wrist for Blasphemy, that's the only disappointing part.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

It's not even clear how many of the bloggers are actually atheist either. So why is blasphemy suddenly a big issue, when the protests were all about war crimes?

Surely, it is to distract attention and protect Jamaat-e-Islami leaders from prosecution - which it has successfully achieved.

.

Some activists who are demanding to hang war criminals are also bloggers or supporters of bloggers in the name of freedom of speech .

Govt. at first did not do anything to stop / punish the bloggers . Govt. even did not block their sites / remove anti Islamaic posts . Thus a lot of Muslims became angry and now people are divided in to 2 groups .

U may say that now the question is , Are u a Muslim ? Then protest agaisnt those bloggers . On the other hand , the youth who first started the protest against accused war criminals are saying , we are not against Islam or any religion . Don't harrass any bloggers because of some Islmaic groups who want to protect the war criminals.

Only Allah knows what will happen next . Now we have another strike tomorrow imsad

[Pygoscelis]

This is great news. These bloggers aren't simply "critical" of Islam as someone mentioned, they're very much insulting, causing confusing and spreading hatred. They're not up for a debate, instead, they just end up creating blogs to get a reaction from Muslims.

And here's another muslim posting against the bloggers with no concern whatsoever expressed over the murders and death threats done in the name of Islam.

Being arrested is like a slap on the wrist for Blasphemy, that's the only disappointing part.

What would you prefer? Kill the blasphemers?

[Pygoscelis]

huh , so u beleive it's a right of atheists to write fake stories in nasty language against Prophet Muhammed pbuh , companions of him , his wife who is mother of the believers and Muslims should watch it silenlty ? That's not fair .

I agree. They should be more respectful than to use nasty language or to make up stories.

But what I find shocking is that you find THIS to be the only thing worth commenting on in the OP. You don't seem to care whatsoever about people being murdered, and being murdered in the name of your religion, linking it with hatred and violence. I'd have thought you'd be very offended at people trying to make your religion look violent and murderous. But you seem to accept it. That may not be your intention, but it is the perception you project here, and it is very much where these bloggers will get more source material for their rants against Islam. If they can make Islam in general look to us like its out to murder anybody who doesn't like it then you've got an impossible PR issue, and those adds in the NYC subway are justified in the minds of many.

[Independent]

U may say that now the question is , Are u a Muslim ? Then protest agaisnt those bloggers . On the other hand , the youth who first started the protest against accused war criminals are saying , we are not against Islam or any religion . Don't harrass any bloggers because of some Islmaic groups who want to protect the war criminals.

I agree it's difficult and divisive. But whatever the bloggers may or may not have said, this should not be allowed to affect or delay the prosecution of the war criminals who are accused (and in some cases already tried and found guilty) of the most severe crimes against tens of thousands of victims.

Govt. at first did not do anything to stop / punish the bloggers . Govt. even did not block their sites / remove anti Islamaic posts .

That's why it's so puzzling the the Government seems to have made a U-turn. Why have they suddenly turned on the bloggers? There has to be a deal here between the Government and Jamaat-e-Islami - or else the Government has simply lost its nerve.

(By the way, there are also accusations of fraud here. Most of the worst anti-Islamic internet links went to Rajib Haider’s blogsite. But Rajib was already dead when this material was posted. It is said that the site shows no traffic the day before his death.)

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

. Most of the worst anti-Islamic internet links went to Rajib Haider’s blogsite. But Rajib was already dead when this material was posted. It is said that the site shows no traffic the day before his death.)

I don't think so . There are so many anti Islamic pages of Rajib in different sites including Facebook . More than one people told me they knew him through his anti Islmaic posts since long . If he was not guilty of blashphemy , then why he was killed ? If his account has been hacked , who did it ? It must not be hard for Govt. to find it out.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

What would you prefer? Kill the blasphemers?

to my knowledge , if blashphemers refuse to offer repentance , then they can recieve death penalty or Judge will order to cut the hand and leg from opposite side or can order them to leave country forever .

Someone correct me pl. if I m wrong .

[Independent]

If he was not guilty of blashphemy , then why he was killed ?

Well, he was hacked to death by a mob so I don't think there was anything resembling due process involved.

The key point is that any legal action against the bloggers, if justified, should not interfere with or hold back action against suspected war criminals - whose actions (I hope you would agree) are far, far worse in humanitarian terms and even in religious terms (because they committed their crimes at least partly in the name of Islam). We need trials, not riots.

[جوري]

There's no due process involved in the west either why not go down to gitmo investigating all the suspicious 'suicides' they've there or rather demand due process trial and representation before you open your bazoo here?
You know just so you wouldn't come across like a complete hypocrite with absolutely everything you write!

Best,

[Perseveranze]

What would you prefer? Kill the blasphemers?

That's not even up for debate. The penalty for Blasphemy [different to debate based criticism] is execution, quite simple.

to my knowledge , if blashphemers refuse to offer repentance , then they can recieve death penalty or Judge will order to cut the hand and leg from opposite side or can order them to leave country forever .

Someone correct me pl. if I m wrong .

Walaikum Asalaam,

If Blasphemy is against the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), they become an apostate; of which the hanafis, hanbali's and Maliki's say that repentance won't be enough to remove the punishment on them. Punishment is for the offence (of Blasphemy), not apostasy. Shafi'is however say that repentance in such an instance is enough to deter the punishment on them.

Blasphemy against God, hanafi's and shafi's say repentance is enough to deter the punishment, but hanbali's say it isn't. Can't remember the stance of the Maliki.

There's also stuff like if the person's a new revert, or a female, a non Muslim, that comes into account for some of the schools. But you get the general picture, that most don't really allow repentance if the Blasphemy is against the Prophet.

Shafi'is are the only one's that allow it in all occassions due to istitaba.

[Independent]

That's not even up for debate. The penalty for Blasphemy [different to debate based criticism] is execution, quite simple.

Surely the leaders who committed the crimes of mass murder and rape in the war of independence deserve the death penalty far more than a bunch of bloggers who killed no one? Yet the war criminals who have been found guilty already were only given custodial sentences (the death sentence was available).

[جوري]

Surely

That's not your decision to make or for you to question!

[Perseveranze]

Surely the leaders who committed the crimes of mass murder and rape in the war of independence deserve the death penalty far more than a bunch of bloggers who killed no one? Yet the war criminals who have been found guilty already were only given custodial sentences (the death sentence was available).

If a country is at war, fighting against the enemy doesn't mean we suddenly start to tolerate people stealing, raping and committing various kinds of war crimes.

Blasphemy isn't simply punished for no reason. It causes divisions amongst groups, spreads hatred, causes civil chaos (the anger, protests, can lead to even more deaths etc. due to nothing being done) - all because some fools decided it would be fun to to get a reaction from people by needlessly insulting their beliefs.

Islam prescribes peace between the differing groups and minorities, it prioritises this as to encourage people treat one another in righteousness. Insulting Dhimmi's is also a punishable offence, as there's no point in tolerating Non-Muslims practicing their beliefs, when they aren't able to do it in peace (ie. without the insults etc.).

[Independent]

Blasphemy isn't simply punished for no reason.

i understand it can be divisive - however, in this case the agitation against the bloggers is led by the very people and their supporters who are accused of war crimes, in a (successful) attempt to distract attention.

Islam prescribes peace between the differing groups and minorities, it prioritises this as to encourage people treat one another in righteousness. Insulting Dhimmi's is also a punishable offence, as there's no point in tolerating Non-Muslims practicing their beliefs, when they aren't able to do it in peace (ie. without the insults etc.)

All good to hear. However, although Bangladesh is a (mostly) Muslim country i read that it has a secular constitution. Does this law actually apply in Bangladesh?

[Pygoscelis]

Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?

When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.

Islam prescribes peace between the differing groups and minorities

By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

[Perseveranze]

Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?

When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.



By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

Again, it seems that;

a) You didn't read all my posts within this thread

b) You didn't understand my posts

c) You don't understand the differenciation between insult and criticism. I can only make an assumption here, that you consider "opposing Islam" as a means of insult, I personally don't.

And it calls for their execution within a context, one that they are more than aware of the consequences before they decide to commit the crime, including the "reaction", that's why they try to do it with anonymity.

By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

You keep believing that.

It's the same for anyone that "opposes" [as you describe] the west, they're bound for persecution.

[Iceee]

Salaam.

a) You didn't read all my posts within this thread

No offense to any atheist here but this seems to be true not only to you but also to all atheists in general including in our forum board. Can't take time to read everything?

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/...ed-afghanistan

JUST PUT HIM IN A SHED WITH JUST ONE SOLDIER AFTER WHAT HE SAID, THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE WALKING OUT OF THE SHED AND IT WOULDN'T BE THAT MUSLIM SCUM BAG, THEY WANT TO LIVE HEAR IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT DRESS AND LOOK AND LIVE LIKE THEY ARE LIVING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY THE ENGLISH PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM AND DON'T WANT THEM LIVING HEAR LIKE IT WAS SOME OTHER COUNTRY IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HEAR, LIVE LIKE YOUR IN ENGLAND.

Now, put that the other way around... What's fair?

[Pygoscelis]

I read everything posted in the thread.

First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.

Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.

Now you post a link to a story about a guy who wrote how he wishes his country's soldiers to die and who was spared jail for it, and you somehow think that is comparable to people who mock your religion and get killed for it.

There are of course horrible things done by western governments to Muslims (and other groups of people). The key difference here is that I don't endorse it. Western governments can get away with doing these things to muslims because they demonize Islam. They create images in people's minds of terrorism and hatred. People like the guy quoted in the post above start hating Islam and saying hateful things about Muslims. They put up adds like the ones in NYC subway in that other thread below. This is very troubling and I stand with you against it.

Some of us non-muslims in the west would like to live in harmony and see this sort of fear and xenophobia stop. But you make that awfully hard when you show no concern about people murdering in the name of Islam, and in fact endorse the murder of those who insult Islam.

[Pygoscelis]

JUST PUT HIM IN A SHED WITH JUST ONE SOLDIER AFTER WHAT HE SAID, THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE WALKING OUT OF THE SHED AND IT WOULDN'T BE THAT MUSLIM SCUM BAG, THEY WANT TO LIVE HEAR IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT DRESS AND LOOK AND LIVE LIKE THEY ARE LIVING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY THE ENGLISH PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM AND DON'T WANT THEM LIVING HEAR LIKE IT WAS SOME OTHER COUNTRY IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HEAR, LIVE LIKE YOUR IN EN

You want to be as irrational and hateful as that guy?

Also, the comparison isn't all that great. The target of this guy's mad capslock ire is somebody who called for the death of England's soldiers, not somebody who simply insulted England.

[Iceee]

You want to be as irrational and hateful as that guy?

Na, just want fair punishment ;D;D;D

[hur575]

Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?

.

Islam does not need their respect but in Islamic state you keep your insults to yourself.

When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.


.

Islam have long history having dialogues with atheists, the problem is most of these people are not up for discussion, they just like to throw insults.

By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

Again not who oppose it but who insult it. Many people refuse to comprehend the difference, and they are quick to pass the moral judgement.

[Perseveranze]

I read everything posted in the thread.

Looking at the reply, I guess I'll opt for your lack of understanding it then.

First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.

I'm certainly upset that anyone was killed without being tried in a Shariah court, as vigilantism isn't acceptable. But, at the same time, I'm upset that people are insulting my deen, for no reason whatsoever, only to cause many problems (sorry, but I'm not going to repeat it for the 3rd time).

No one is condoning either action here. We want justice to be served, but want it to be done within the limits of the Shariah.

Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.

Once again, you didn't understand my post.

Difference between "murder" (unlawful killing) and execution (lawful killing). We only wish for these blasphemers to be tried within a Shariah court, and if proven guilty, to serve the absolute punishment for causing strife and chaos within the lands.

I've already also explained why Blasphemy is punishable for Islam. If it wasn't, or hate-speech for that matter wasn't, various groups and minorities would struggle to get a long in peace and tolerance. Laws and punishments are there to deter.

ow you post a link to a story about a guy who wrote how he wishes his country's soldiers to die and who was spared jail for it, and you somehow think that is comparable to people who mock your religion and get killed for it.

Insulting the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is an unimaginable number of times worst than insulting a few soldiers who follow the orders of a nation that has wrecked millions of lives and killed in the thousands.

Both of course, is something I condemn. I just wanted to show you the double standards. There's many cases in the UK (or the west) where people have actually been jailed for insulting.

There are of course horrible things done by western governments to Muslims (and other groups of people). The key difference here is that I don't endorse it.

That's good for you. But you need to understand why people (both western and Muslims) see insulting as a criminal offence. No one is against freedom of speech here, we're all happy with progressive dialogue. After all, how are Muslims going to give dawah to Non-Muslims if we don't answer their questions/concerns/criticisms?

But this is very much different to unprogressive, pointless acts, such as "draw Muhammad day", bomber cartoons, cheap videos with the purpose to insult and get a reaction from the Muslim community etc.

Western governments can get away with doing these things to muslims because they demonize Islam. They create images in people's minds of terrorism and hatred. People like the guy quoted in the post above start hating Islam and saying hateful things about Muslims. They put up adds like the ones in NYC subway in that other thread below. This is very troubling and I stand with you against it.

Blasphemy is hate speech.

Some of us non-muslims in the west would like to live in harmony and see this sort of fear and xenophobia stop. But you make that awfully hard when you show no concern about people murdering in the name of Islam, and in fact endorse the murder of those who insult Islam.

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution. Sure, there's a difference of opinion in regards to repentance, and whether it was done by a non-Muslim etc.

But there is, none the less, punishment for it. And anyone who denies this is walking a very thin line.

[Tyrion]

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.

Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...

[hur575]

I read everything posted in the thread.

First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.

.

I will address some of your points but please read them all, if you really want to understand our point of view. It might help.

Who said we are more upset or less upset about people insulting our religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion?? Please tell me how did you reach that conclusion. When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts, our imams, leaders even every Muslim becomes a spokes person for Islam, even though there are lunatics in every religion, faiths, ideology etc but we do not see any one coming out apologising for the act of few but we do it and we always have, so do not tell us what we feel and do not feel. The western media have magnified any wrong act of Muslims, to the point we feel we have to defend ourselves every time.

I read everything posted in the thread.

Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.

.

It is not us who ask to murder them, but Allah the All-Mighty, All-Wise. You see we do not ask for them to be killed by anyone but the state in Islamic state. The thing is the love of Allah and our prophet peace be upon him, to any Muslim even not practising Muslim is more than anyone can describe. These people if not captured and judged by the state, ordinary people might go and kill them, so by that your causing chaos.

We believe that is the order of Allah, the creator of everything, we Muslims we submit to his will. You might say well, every other religion believes that, true BUT us asking to apply sharia in Islamic state it does not affect anyone but us. We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone, or demand sharia law in none Islamic state, so I do not see how that effect anyone in the world.

Finally, You can’t judge Islam by your moral standard, or your prejudice. Moral standard vary so much between cultures, and also time. So what is acceptable today might not be to tomorrow, and some place else. We believe in creator that knows us better than ourselves, and as I said with our limitation we can’t possibly agree in what is acceptable and what is not, so that method is not viable method to judge a religion.

[Pygoscelis]

I'm certainly upset that anyone was killed without being tried in a Shariah court, as vigilantism isn't acceptable.

It is nice to see you finally write that.

I've already also explained why Blasphemy is punishable for Islam. If it wasn't, or hate-speech for that matter wasn't, various groups and minorities would struggle to get a long in peace and tolerance. Laws and punishments are there to deter.

You can state your reasons why you think it is good to kill people who offend you, but don't try to tell me it is "tolerance". It is the opposite.

Many religious doctrines are pretty insulting to non-believers if you think about it. We're always hearing how we should burn in hell and suffer for all eternity, how you can't be good without God, etc. Homosexuals are even told that they are abominations. That doesn't mean we should execute church leaders. When I see Fred Phelps picketing a funeral with his hate speech my reaction isn't that I want to see him hang.

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.

So the ones that say they don't are lying to me? I really don't think all Muslims are that thin skinned.

[Pygoscelis]

Who said we are more upset or less upset about people insulting our religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion?? Please tell me how did you reach that conclusion. When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts, our imams, leaders even every Muslim becomes a spokes person for Islam, even though there are lunatics in every religion, faiths, ideology etc but we do not see any one coming out apologising for the act of few but we do it and we always have, so do not tell us what we feel and do not feel. The western media have magnified any wrong act of Muslims, to the point we feel we have to defend ourselves every time.

I was not writing about the broader context. I was writing about this specific thread. Did you read it from the first page?

It is not us who ask to murder them, but Allah the All-Mighty, All-Wise.

LOL Well I guess that makes it ok then....

You see we do not ask for them to be killed by anyone but the state in Islamic state. The thing is the love of Allah and our prophet peace be upon him, to any Muslim even not practising Muslim is more than anyone can describe. These people if not captured and judged by the state, ordinary people might go and kill them, so by that your causing chaos.

That's the point I made in my initial response in this thread. It actually makes sense to arrest these guys, because it really doesn't take them saying much for reactionaries to rush to violence. They are brave and stupid, and really need to be taken off the street for their own good.

We believe that is the order of Allah, the creator of everything, we Muslims we submit to his will. You might say well, every other religion believes that, true BUT us asking to apply sharia in Islamic state it does not affect anyone but us.

It affects everyone trapped in the society in which it is implemented, including those who are not Muslim, including those who belong to minority religions, and those who grew up in Islam but have lost their faith for whatever reason (or children who grew up with it but never believed). It also affects those outside the society, because although you say you do not wish to push Sharia further than this particular society, there are many others who wish to do so.

We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone

I was glad to finally see Perseveranze write that. I would like to see Muslim Woman agree. I find it pretty alarming how they ignored the murders and threats of suicide squads completely while complaining about the blasphemy.

You can’t judge Islam by your moral standard

Of course I can. Whose moral standard would you have me judge with?

[Hulk]

From my understanding sharia should be implemented to a knowledgable community, not ignorant. Ilm before amal.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

a related fatwa .

Fatwa No : 174509

A person who repents from apostasy or blasphemy

Fatwa Date : Rabee' Al-Aakhir 5, 1433 / 28-2-2012

Question




if a person repents from apostasy or blasphemy, will he be forgiven by Allah and if he is in islamic state will he be still executed even after becoming a true muslim


Answer





All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad

is His slave and Messenger.



With regard to his repentance and whether or not it will be accepted by Allaah The Almighty in the Hereafter, then this is a matter which only He knows.



However, if he sincerely repents, Allaah The Almighty will accept his repentance, Allaah willing.



Allaah The Almighty Says (what means):

{Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning] do not despair of the mercy of Allaah. Indeed, Allaah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”} [Quran 39:53]





As regards killing him after he had repented, then the jurists of the Shaafi’i school of jurisprudence stated that he should not be killed.



Nihaayatul Muhtaaj, one of the Shaafi’i Fiqh books, reads, “If he becomes a Muslim, his Islam is valid and he is exempted from the punishment as Allaah Says (what means): {Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] — then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place.} [Quran 8:38]




And as per the Hadeeth which reads: “If they had said it, their blood and money become secure from me.”, and his statement means that whoever insults him, [i.e. the Prophet

] or any other Prophet and then repents, then his Islam is valid and he is exempted from the punishment , and this is according to the correct opinion.''



http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=174509

Send this fatwa to friend

[Independent]

We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone, or demand sharia law in none Islamic state, so I do not see how that effect anyone in the world.

Bangladesh is not under Sharia Law, it took a secular constitution after the war of Independence.

When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts

Of course this is important. Yet in this case, those accused of war crimes during the War of Independence have made these bloggers an issue in order to avoid prosecution. What makes a few, reckless atheist bloggers worse than war criminals who say they acted in the name of Islam? It's like stopping to blow out a match when the house is on fire. There is more enthusiasm to prosecute blasphemous words than murderous acts.

[Ramadan90]

“Be tolerant, command what's right, pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]

“The Servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on Earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply 'Peace'” [25:63]


Let Allah deal with these people. When people see that your are patient with these ignorant fools, keep smiling and spread the truth, they will be impressed and be open to Islam. I do believe that Non-muslims living in muslim countries do respect the religion.

[Urban Turban]

:sl:


it's ok if one wants to be an atheist . But I wonder , how come BD athiests love to attack only Islam , Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh and his companions , Mother Khadeja ra ? I have not seen condemning them Prophet Jesus pbuh , Lord Buddha , Lord Ram and religious figures of other faiths.

U won't believe how nasty language they used against our beloved Prophet pbuh . There must be a conspiracy against Islam . An individual / a small group can't do this if they are not backed by some powerful org.

Sis, please don't refer to Buddha and Ram as 'Lord' +o(

[Urban Turban]

Bangaldesh govt is pushing an exercise to separate the radical right wing extreme groups (they have to create them first, you see?) from the moderate ones - it's a plot to please USA. Obvious.

This is just another elaborate media hyped witch hunt.

Why can't no one else see right through this?

Don't we judge according to the zaahir (whats apparent) ?? - If this is a plot to separate the two groups then so be it - what exactly is moderate Islam anyways?

[Urban Turban]

Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?

When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.

By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

Psychoscelis.

[Urban Turban]

Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...

This and many other posts of yours make me really doubt if you are even a Muslim or not.

Should one NOT have problems when some ******* is insulting the Prophet (peace and immense blessings be upon him) / Quran / etc ??!

If this does't get our goats, then what else does?

Should or does one keep quiet when one's parents are insulted?
And if one keeps mum when such a thing happens, then you know what he is called, he is called impotent.

And when a man who is worth more than the universe and everything in it put together is insulted - does one keep quiet?

It gets lower, does one defend the people who are insulting? Like you.

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

[Pygoscelis]

And if one keeps mum when such a thing happens, then you know what he is called, he is called impotent.

He said people shouldn't be executed for it and said he is concerned about the bloodlust. You equate this with "keeping mum"? Speaking out in defence of your religion is not the same thing as murdering those who oppose it.

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

Watch your back Tyrion.

[Pygoscelis]

“Be tolerant, command what's right, pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]

“The Servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on Earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply 'Peace'” [25:63]


Let Allah deal with these people. When people see that your are patient with these ignorant fools, keep smiling and spread the truth, they will be impressed and be open to Islam. I do believe that Non-muslims living in muslim countries do respect the religion.

Thank you for posting this. It gives some hope.

[Urban Turban]

He said people shouldn't be executed for it and said he is concerned about the bloodlust. You equate this with "keeping mum"? Speaking out in defence of your religion is not the same thing as murdering those who oppose it.



Watch your back Tyrion.

@Psychoscelis, you won't understand...you got nothing to live by and nothing to die for. It'd be a waste of time explaining.

[جوري]

People die for their ideology all the time. I am sick of that western holier than thou syndrome which totes its ugly head only as far as Muslims are concerned.. yet they have no problem at all sending their drones out to kill men without trial and their children thereafter lest God forbid they imbued the same ideology through osmosis. Pray do tell what good is an apology or feeling bad? It is all about mission accomplished with the usual 'collateral damage' and we should be equally if not more unyielding. It is because of their sophistry and the hypocrites in our midst that the Muslim world is in the state it is in today when we absolutely lack for nothing either by way of resources, manpower knowledge, land, culture and above all spiritual fulfillment!

[Futuwwa]

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.

Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...

You can add me to the list of Muslims who don't endorse execution as punishment for blasphemy. It would seem that not every Muslim endorses it, at the very most every Muslim except two :)

[Futuwwa]

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

In that case you better watch out, for guys like him are known for paying their debts :p

[Urban Turban]

In that case you better watch out, for guys like him are known for paying their debts :p

I pity you...you don't know what you are playing with.

[Futuwwa]

Oy, I never thought that not being an extremist would be more dangerous than being an extremist :phew

[Perseveranze]

It is nice to see you finally write that.

I'd feel upset when any bounds of the Shariah were crossed.

You can state your reasons why you think it is good to kill people who offend you, but don't try to tell me it is "tolerance". It is the opposite.

There is no such thing as "absolute tolerance", you cannot say whatever you want, no matter where you go. I didn't just state why Shariah punishes Blasphemy/hate-speech, I also stated what would happen if it didn't.

Many religious doctrines are pretty insulting to non-believers if you think about it. We're always hearing how we should burn in hell and suffer for all eternity, how you can't be good without God, etc.

Not really, there's a systematic rational to it. If you do wrong, you go to hell (applies to both believers and non-believers, atleast that's according to Islam), if you do good and you believe, you go to paradise. The whole point is to warn and save Non-believers from the hellfire, if it didn't, those that end up not believing would have a excuse as to the fact that they were never warned. Furthermore, if you look at Christianity, they say that Muslims are going to hell, they commit the biggest blasphemy by ascribing partners to God, yet we tolerate them, and we would tolerate any Non-Muslim that said the same.

However, all this is completely different to the insults that I've mentioned earlier in the thread.

Homosexuals are even told that they are abominations. That doesn't mean we should execute church leaders. When I see Fred Phelps picketing a funeral with his hate speech my reaction isn't that I want to see him hang.

Again, religion doesn't agree with homosexuality, but there's ways in which this point is put across. It doesn't work by constantly insulting them, it works by showing them why Sodomy is wrong etc. and this is done through dawah.

So the ones that say they don't are lying to me? I really don't think all Muslims are that thin skinned.

Yeah, and these "muslims" also deny the punishment for apostasy. Basically, modernists (influenced purely by western ideals) who most of the Muslim world take little note off.

Oy, I never thought that not being an extremist would be more dangerous than being an extremist :phew

Believing in something for which there's an ijma, doesn't make one an extremist, makes them a Muslim.

[tearose]

You can add me to the list of Muslims who don't endorse execution as punishment for blasphemy. It would seem that not every Muslim endorses it, at the very most every Muslim except two

I haven't been active on this forum very long, but I have never seen either of you post any proof for your opinions whatsoever, whether that be ayaat, ahadith, scholars' views on the rulings. Why even bother posting if you can't back it up?

[Futuwwa]

I haven't been active on this forum very long, but I have never seen either of you post any proof for your opinions whatsoever, whether that be ayaat, ahadith, scholars' views on the rulings. Why even bother posting if you can't back it up?

Why would I need to back anything up on this point? It's the others who are asserting that a particular action is a capital offence. That means the burden of proof is on them, unless your fiqh is such that everything is considered a capital offense by default unless there is a specific ayat or hadith saying otherwise.

[tearose]

Why would I need to back anything up on this point? It's the others who are asserting that a particular action is a capital offence. That means the burden of proof is on them, unless your fiqh is such that everything is considered a capital offense by default unless there is a specific ayat or hadith saying otherwise.

A fatwa outlining the position of the four madhahib on this issue has already been posted on this thread. If you oppose it you should show where your opinion comes from.

[Futuwwa]

The fatwa in post #45 was about punishment after repentance from blasphemy. It did not provide any basis for why blasphemy is a capital offense to begin with, the very question was loaded with that assumption.