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MrKhan89
04-05-2013, 12:40 AM
if he is? how many?
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Iceee
04-05-2013, 01:08 AM
Can a non-muslim enter paradise, for example, a Christian who believes in God (believing Jesus is a prophet) and his prophets, excluding Mohammad (P.B.U.H) ?

Praise be to Allaah.

The answer to this question is presumably quite clear to all Muslims, because it is one of the obvious matters of ‘aqeedah (belief).

In answer to this question, it is sufficient to quote one aayah and one hadeeth.

The aayah is (interpretation of the meaning): "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

The hadeeth is: "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).
You have to know there are three kinds of people (Islamic point of view):
1) Believers
2) Non-Muslims
3) Disbelievers

Believers are true Muslims, and shall go to Heaven inshaAllah.
Disbelievers are those who 'reject' Islam (or existence of 1 God) even when Knowing it ! (they shall go to Hell)

However, you question relates to 'non-musims'...those who may be aware of Islam but do not follow it (possibly because of their parents? - or they got wrong impression of Islam so they never bothered?)

Now, before I continue, go through these Quranic verses (interpretations):

1) Quran [17:15]: Allah (swt) says, He will not punish those, to whom He has not sent any messenger (to warn him).

2) Quran [2:268]: Allah (swt) says, "to NO soul a Burden will be placed, greater than it can bear"

3) Quran [5:48]: Allah (swt) says, for every human being, there is a different test depending on what he is capable of !

For those non-muslims, their intentional actions in their lives will be considered ...and also... there will be a final 'test' for them at the Day of Judgement that will decide whether would he go to Hell or Heaven.

Conclusions:

1) Every Muslim and Non-Muslim will be tested differently and according to their "acts" and "intentions".

2) Every Non-Muslim will be Tested again on the Last_Day (only those who had done "righteous" acts and/or had "clean" intentions are likely to pass that test) That means Non-Muslims are required atleast to do righteous things in their Life.

3) Every Disbeliever, (i.e. those who know there is 1 God - Allah (swt) and still doesn't worship Him) shall goto Hell directly.

4) There will be No injustice, Allah (swt) knows the Best !

Hope that helps,
Salaam
Inshallah everyone prays the shahada before dying


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Tyrion
04-05-2013, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by MrKhan89
if he is? how many?
Yes, I think all kinds of people will get to go to heaven. I don't think Muslims have a monopoly on salvation. As for how many, we can't possibly know that. We're guaranteed the fairest judgement however, so I think that bodes well for a lot of people who've lived decent, sincere lives.
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crimsontide06
04-05-2013, 02:06 AM
I would hope so... How can you say someone who lives as a Christian or are Jewish, who give their life to God in the way they were raised to believe, do good things, live right according to what they were taught but...oops you were born to the wrong family, wrong part of the world, wrong religion, you burn in hell for eternity!

I call that garbage and unjust..and God is not unjust. This is a man made human philosophy/propaganda that if you don't follow (insert religion name here) you go to hell...


(Those who believe [in the Quran], and those who follow the Jewish [scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians,—any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.) (Al-Baqarah 2:62)
Source: http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-a...to-heaven.html
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Ahmad H
04-05-2013, 02:50 AM
If I may add, anyone who did not outright reject the message of Islam while knowing fully what it was and had the time to accept it, will probably be judged differently than those who did have the fair chance to accept Islam, knowing fully well what it was, and did not accept it.

Allah is not unjust to His servants (3:182, 8:51, 22:10, 24:50, 26:209, 41:46, 50:29). Those who were unjust to Allah's signs will be thrown into Hell (7:9, 18:57). Allah does not try to do any wrong to His servants, in fact, men wrong themselves instead (3:108, 3:117, 9:69, 10:44, 10:54, 11:101, 16:33, 16:118, 18:49, 29:40, 30:9). Allah has revealed to our souls what is right and what is wrong already (91:8), so there is really no need for us to complain. This is a fact as well since we were made on the fitrah (30:30).

The Qur'an deals with this subject of Allah being just and fair to His servants. It is comprehensive and His justice is in all of what He does. If one pays very close attention to the concept of justice in the Holy Qur'an, they will be surprised to see how it elegantly explains it all. So no one should think that Allah would judge harshly for no reason. He rewards every evil deed for its like, and every good deed ten times over (6:160). Then He punishes only for the wrong that people do when they had a clear choice. Only He knows our intentions. So whoever Allah puts in Hell deserves it, and whoever He puts in Heaven they deserve it. We should just be resigned to that if we don't know the exact answer to this question. That should settle and ease your heart. He is the Most Just of Judges. Al hamdu lillah! Allahu Akbar! What else do you need?
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MustafaMc
04-05-2013, 02:53 AM
Is it our place to judge who will and who will not be among the people of Paradise? Rather it is our responsibility to share the message of Islamic monotheism with the presumption that the only acceptable religion is Islam. Yet again even with that, only Allah (swt) will be our judge.
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Woodrow
04-05-2013, 07:09 AM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Is it our place to judge who will and who will not be among the people of Paradise? Rather it is our responsibility to share the message of Islamic monotheism with the presumption that the only acceptable religion is Islam. Yet again even with that, only Allah (swt) will be our judge.
True,

When we think about it, we do not know who will go to Jannah. We do believe all who die as Muslims will. But that does not mean we know with certainty who will not got to Paradise.

Fortunately it is not our place to make that decision. We know Allaah(swt) will judge with mercy and fairness.

As is stated in a post above there is a difference between a disbeliever and a Non-Muslim. I like to think that when I meet a Non-Muslim it is possible that in his heart he is a devout Muslim, but has not been taught how to follow Islam and is doing so to the best of his ability.
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Al-Mufarridun
04-05-2013, 09:00 AM
﴾وَالْأَمْرُ يَوْمَئِذٍ لِلَّهِ ﴿82:19
and the command, that Day,
is [entirely] with Allah. (82:19)
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Indian Bro
04-05-2013, 11:15 AM
As-salamu alaykum


[Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 284]
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said, “By the one in whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no one who hears of me from this nation of Jews and Christians and then dies without believing in my message except that he will be a companion of the Fire.”
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MrKhan89
04-05-2013, 05:05 PM
so are you telling me that, people that worship the creation instead of the creator still have a chance to enter jannah?
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sister herb
04-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Salam alaykum

Only Allah knows the real answer - as others have wrote before.

Or do you know better than HIM?

Maybe you should better just try to show a good example what a good muslim is to those whose aren´t muslims (in some cases yet).
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IAmZamzam
04-06-2013, 04:59 AM
Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness--their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them; neither shall they sorrow. (Qur'an 2:62, Arberry)

Which isn't to say it might not be much harder for some people than for others, don't get me wrong.
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Al-Mufarridun
04-06-2013, 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by MrKhan89
so are you telling me that, people that worship the creation instead of the creator still have a chance to enter jannah?
:sl:

Anyone who hears/reads the message of Islam in its pure form and rejects it, will have a strong evidence against him or her.
﴾إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّـهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّـهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ ﴿٧٢
Indeed, he who associates others with Allah -Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire.(5:72)


As for those who died without hearing about Islam, or the Prophet, certainly their case will be with Allah swt on that Day.
That Day belongs to Allah swt, and Allah :swt: is The Just, The All-Knowing, All-Wise.
﴾وَلَا يَظْلِمُ رَبُّكَ أَحَدًا ﴿٤٩
And your Lord does injustice to no one.(18:49)


Allah :swt: Knows Best!



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~Zaria~
04-06-2013, 11:31 AM
:salam:


I think this is an important concept, for us as muslims to reflect on.

Sometimes, we may see non-muslims around us - and an 'internal instinct' as a believer, is to feel that we are 'the guided ones', and that until they accept islam, then they are 'eternally doomed to hell'.

I think we need to move ourselves away from such forms of thinking, and realise the following:

- We have no way of knowing if someone has actually received the message of Islam, and then rejected it - simply by looking at a person and his outward behaviour.
It may be possible that the person has heard of the religion of Islam - but other than that, does not really know what its teachings are......and so, has not had the chance to accept/reject it as a way of life.

- It is only through the mercy of Allah, that we may find ourselves as followers of this deen.
If we are to look at others in 'scorn' for not sharing the same beliefs, it is possible that Allah Taa'la can take this precious gift away from us as well.
Just because you are a believer now, does not gurarantee that you will leave this earth with imaan/ in a manner that is pleasing to Allah.
How many a muslim has been struck by death in the most sinful of places - in discos, gambling quarters, in the arms of the illicit beloveds, etc.....

I have 2 collegues at the moment who have turned away from Islam, despite being raised as muslims from birth.
These are intelligent people, who are able to recognise all the signs of Allah, who have even been for Hajj and umrah - but for some reason, their hearts have been sealed from the truth.
In the same way, we can suffer the same fate.....if we do not hold on tightly to our deen, and do not lose the arrogance and hatred that we feel for other groups of people.

- I think we should spend less time worrying about how Allah azza wajjal is going to judge others, and spend more time being concerned about how He is going to judge us.
Just being 'muslim' is not a one-way ticket to Jannah.
We have to work on our imaans, are nafs, shaytaan and his many temptations to sin, our love for Allah and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - every day.
So, if we are focussed on this, we would not have the time to be concerned about the judgements of Allah Taa'la upon others.

And neither is there need, for Allah (subhanawataála) is the Best of Judgers.
SubhanAllah

Our focus needs to be more on, calling others (not forcing) to the way of Islam.

Dawah is our duty as muslims.


:salam:
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MustafaMc
04-06-2013, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Sometimes, we may see non-muslims around us - and an 'internal instinct' as a believer, is to feel that we are 'the guided ones', and that until they accept islam, then they are 'eternally doomed to hell'.

I think we need to move ourselves away from such forms of thinking
Assalamu alaikum, I agree with you that it does no good to ponder over whether others than Muslims will gain Paradise or not. However, the question does come to our minds particularly for converts to Islam like myself. I am the only Muslim in my entire family and the question does come to me regarding my family. One point to consider is the implications of considering the possibility of others attaining Paradise and that is having an "I am OK, you are OK" attitude that is at conflict with certain ayat of the Qur'an. For example Brother Al-Mufarridun above quoted part of 5:72, but he left off the first part and followed by ayat 73, "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve." which shows it was talking about the Christians. Very strong language is used toward the Christians in the Qur'an for example, 19:88-90 "And they say: The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son. Assuredly you utter a disastrous thing whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins"

However, even with such strong language we should not be quick to judge and take an intolerant, scornful attitude toward those who walk a different path than we do. In college I had a Muslim room mate (Shi'a from Iran) for a full year before I became a Muslim. We did not have heated discussions about religion, just an occasional brief discussion. I remained a Christian until I took his Qur'an home over Christmas break and read the parts about Jesus and other people I knew from the Bible. Allah (swt) opened my eyes so that I was able to see the truth of Islam in a very short time, but it came only through the guidance of Allah (swt). I do not deserve that blessing of guidance and I have often wondered, "Why was I guided while so many yet remain astray?" Even with that divine blessing of guidance to Islam, there is absolutely no guarantee that even I will attain Paradise for I do not know the state of my iman at my death and I am unable to judge today even the intentions of my own heart.

I think it best at what Jesus replied to Allah (swt) regarding his followers in 5:188 "If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! You, only You, art the Mighty, the Wise."
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IAmZamzam
04-06-2013, 01:28 PM
Guys, it is not as simple as whether they have "heard of" anything or "know about" it. We need to step out of literal minds here. We are judged for our intentions and not for our successes. It's about how well they understood it. Did they really and truly know it? That's the question. Maybe they didn't get the chance. Some types of ignorance are excusable and others are not, and even if we could read minds it would still not ultimately be ours to know which was which. We would still not be able to read hearts. There is only one who knows the thoughts within the breasts.
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~Zaria~
04-06-2013, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Assalamu alaikum, I agree with you that it does no good to ponder over whether others than Muslims will gain Paradise or not. However, the question does come to our minds particularly for converts to Islam like myself. I am the only Muslim in my entire family and the question does come to me regarding my family. One point to consider is the implications of considering the possibility of others attaining Paradise and that is having an "I am OK, you are OK" attitude that is at conflict with certain ayat of the Qur'an. For example Brother Al-Mufarridun above quoted part of 5:72, but he left off the first part and followed by ayat 73, "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve." which shows it was talking about the Christians. Very strong language is used toward the Christians in the Qur'an for example, 19:88-90 "And they say: The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son. Assuredly you utter a disastrous thing whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins"

However, even with such strong language we should not be quick to judge and take an intolerant, scornful attitude toward those who walk a different path than we do. In college I had a Muslim room mate (Shi'a from Iran) for a full year before I became a Muslim. We did not have heated discussions about religion, just an occasional brief discussion. I remained a Christian until I took his Qur'an home over Christmas break and read the parts about Jesus and other people I knew from the Bible. Allah (swt) opened my eyes so that I was able to see the truth of Islam in a very short time, but it came only through the guidance of Allah (swt). I do not deserve that blessing of guidance and I have often wondered, "Why was I guided while so many yet remain astray?" Even with that divine blessing of guidance to Islam, there is absolutely no guarantee that even I will attain Paradise for I do not know the state of my iman at my death and I am unable to judge today even the intentions of my own heart.

I think it best at what Jesus replied to Allah (swt) regarding his followers in 5:188 "If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! You, only You, art the Mighty, the Wise."

:jz: for sharing this with us akhee,

I think, what you are describing above relates particularly to those who have been invited to Islam - and then, rejects this message, and continues in their ways of kufr and associating partners to Allah.

I can relate to some extent, on how you feel about your family members.
My mum was not born into a muslim family (my dad is), and even though she was happy to see her kids raised as muslims, she only accepted Islam a few years ago.
SubhanAllah - there are no words to describe ones joy when someone close to you, accepts Islam as the truth!

Prior to this, I used to worry about her fate if she were to pass on as a disbeliever.
And even today, I worry, because its an ongoing task of trying to teach a new muslim how to pray, read quran, etc - esp. when one is not as young and now has to learn and 'unlearn' things in life.

I think, in a lot of cases - disbelievers hold onto to the principle: that I am a 'good person', I do not harm anyone and I perform a lot of good deeds......hence, God will judge me based on this alone.


I do not deserve that blessing of guidance and I have often wondered, "Why was I guided while so many yet remain astray?" Even with that divine blessing of guidance to Islam, there is absolutely no guarantee that even I will attain Paradise for I do not know the state of my iman at my death and I am unable to judge today even the intentions of my own heart.
SubhanAllah, this is the best postion to be in.
To be always grateful to Allah for this blessing of imaan, and to always remember where we came from (our own short-comings and sins) - it is this that keeps us humble, remorseful of the past and ever repentant to Allah.

Not so long ago, I was faced with a life-changing trial in my own life.
They say, when 'Life knocks you to your knees, then you are in the best postion to pray'!
Alhmadulillah - I truly believe that were it not for this 'calamity', I would not have really opend my eyes to Allah and our purpose in life.

Its one thing to be called a 'Muslim'.

Its another thing to be actually LIVING like a Muslim.

Which is why, we should not get too 'comfy' in our 'muslimness'.

As you mention, Allah (subhanawataála) is the only One who can judge our intentions and our actions - and its only through His mercy (not by our own doing at all), that we may be rewarded with Jannah.

May Allah azza wajjal grant this to the entire ummah of Nabi (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).
Ameen
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YusufNoor
04-06-2013, 02:16 PM
:sl:

there's a great lecture by Nouman Ali Khan on Kalamullah, (which appears to be unavailable at the moment :hmm:) in which the gifted brother explains that there a 3 reasons why someone may reject the Message. first, they are truly rejecting the message; second, they are rejecting the manner in which the message was conveyed; and third, they are rejecting the one delivering the message to them.

rather worry about how many non-Muslims may get into Jannah because of YOU ( OR I) or the WAY in which we deliver the message, perhaps it would be a wee bit more beneficial to focus on OURSELVES AND THE MANNER in which the message is relayed to others. that is not to say that we ignore lies or misinformation or attacks on either the Qur'an or it's Wonderful Messenger, pbuh.

instead, you may also want to consider how many Muslims are NOT going directly into Jannah! THAT might be a better category to concern ourselves with:


On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say:

"The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: 'And what did you do about them?' He will say: 'I fought for You until I died a martyr.' He will say: 'You have lied - you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: 'He is courageous.'' And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man who has studied [religious] knowledge and has taught it and who used to recite the Qur'an. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: 'And what did you do about them?' He will say: 'I studied [religious] knowledge and I taught it and I recited the Qur'an for Your sake.' He will say: 'You have lied - you did but study [religious] knowledge that it might be said [of you]: 'He is learned.'' And you recited the Qur'an that it might be said [of you]: 'He is a reciter.' And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man whom Allah had made rich and to whom He had given all kinds of wealth. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: 'And what did you do about them?' He will say: 'I left no path [un-trodden] in which You like money to be spent without spending in it for Your sake.' He will say: 'You have lied - you did but do so that it might be said [of you]: 'He is open-handed.'' And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire."

[Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i)]
and Allahu Alam
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Ahmad H
04-06-2013, 02:30 PM
That is very interesting MustafaMc, that you mentioned those verses in the Holy Qur'an. I often wondered about them and why they express such a harsh attitude towards the polytheism of the Christians, even more so than the polytheism than the Mushrikeen in general who pray to hundreds and thousands of idols. I honestly think that this has to do with the state of Christianity in general and not about each Christian individually. I think that the clergy are to blame. There is a lot of deception on their part. Maybe not all of them, but many of them are deceptive. They insult the Holy Prophet (saw), they insult the Holy Qur'an, they insult the wives of the Holy Prophet (saw), etc. I have seen very harsh attitudes from the Christian clergy in this respect. So I think that their propagating this belief to the whole world, and their constant effort to try to do so despite all the dangers, is why Allah said this.

No one else in the history of the world, no religion, has ever attempted so much to proselytize the whole world. So knowingly spreading a lie is definitely worth that harsh of a punishment. Imagine how much worse it is when you've been the one who made hundreds, or even thousands of others accept that lie. The sin of those people is also upon you then. I honestly think that some of these clergy, who have read the Qur'an and Ahadith, know in their hearts it is the truth. But they still propagate their lies and deceive people about Islam using Islamic sources. They are doing this now, and they continue trying to do it even more to turn people away from Islam. They are the worst people. If anyone would deserve to burn in Hell for lying so much and spreading sin, it would be these kind of people. Especially when you hear the kind of things they say about the wives of the Holy Prophet (saw), his companions, about the Muslims' sacrifices, about Prophet Muhammad (saw) and how he was. I think the Qur'an has done justice in condemning this disgusting behavior of theirs. No one else has done it to this level in the history of the world until now. It has created the Fitnah against Muslim youth which exists in the West. Atheists have started to follow the same route BECAUSE of what the clergy did. So the clergy in Christianity seem to deserve this based upon observation. Very rightly so.
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Independent
04-06-2013, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmad H
I often wondered about them and why they express such a harsh attitude towards the polytheism of the Christians, even more so than the polytheism than the Mushrikeen in general who pray to hundreds and thousands of idols.
Surely this is because of when and where Islam originated. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have much in common, so it was essential to emphasise the differences. In the early days of Muslim expansion there was genuine confusion over the exact nature of the religion that was taking over.

No one was ever going to confuse Islam with, say, Buddhism, so it doesn't get a mention.
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~Zaria~
04-06-2013, 03:41 PM
^^ Yes, but what about those Christians/ Hindus/ other polytheists who are practising the religion of their fore-fathers - simply because they have never been invited to Islam.

In my country - muslims comprise of ~2% of the total population.

And being a 3rd world country, there are many people who may have 'heard about a religion called Islam' - but, honestly do not know anything more than this.

I am often stopped and asked regarding my dress and appearance - often the question is: 'What religion do you follow, that makes you dress in this manner?'
Which shows, that the person has absolutely no knowledge of Islam in itself.

If the message has not reached the person, then surely he can not be accountable for rejecting the truth, as he hasnt had the opportunity to do so.

In these cases, Allah (subhanawataála) will judge, and what lies in their hearts will be apparent.

Our Rabb is THE most loving and THE most merciful.
He has given us soo many opportunities to earn rewards - even smiling at another brother/ sister is charity!
He does not desire to fuel Jahannum with His creation.

Whoever reaches hell-fire, will be those who are truly deserving of it - after being judged by the most fair, compassionate and merciful of all Judges.

:wasalamex
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~Zaria~
04-07-2013, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
I am often stopped and asked regarding my dress and appearance - often the question is: 'What religion do you follow, that makes you dress in this manner?'
Which shows, that the person has absolutely no knowledge of Islam in itself.

So, I stand corrected.....

I thought I would share my short story:
I was just at the hardware store, and the first thing that one of the assistants says to me is: 'Why are you hiding your face? I want to see you!' (its amazing how people desire to see things once they are hidden! lol!)

So I say - 'its because I follow a religion that teaches us to dress in this manner....'
Usually I go on to tell the person about Islam, but today I thought I would put my 'hypothesis' to the test :P

I ask him: 'Do you know what religion it is, that I am following?
He says: 'Yes, you are a muslim'.
So I ask: 'Do you know what Islam teaches us?'
And he says: 'You believe in the quraan and in Allah....yes I do know....'

Which kinda surprised me!

On first impressions, I would have guessed that he probably did not know very much about Islam.....

In any case, I still tried to tell him a little about the Oneness of God, and that we live according to the commands that He has taught us via His messengers, before I left.

Which also made me realise something else - VERY IMPORTANTLY:
To ensure that you ALWAYS have in your possession, a copy of an English-translated Quraan and some leaflets that explain the basics of Islam.
You never know when someone is going to enquire about your deen.....and this is the moment to try and give dawah to the person - when the person, himself takes an interest in your faith. (unfortunately, today I missed out on this opportunity imsad )

Im not the type to speak about religion to anyone that I meet......But, when someone makes the first move - we should seize the opportunity to welcome him and teach him as much as we can.
The person may be asking about your beard/ dress/ fasting/ prayers, etc......but ultimately our role is to lead the conversation towards understanding the core beliefs of Islam - and this may be your only chance to do so!

It is often not possible to say all that there is to say in a short encounter.
But if we leave the person with more information and a translated copy of the quraan, in shaa Allah, it may be the means of guiding him towards the truth.

And thats my story for today..... : )


:wasalam:
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crimsontide06
04-07-2013, 12:31 PM
Someone asked me once "You pray to the moon don't you??" So yeah, people have no clear understanding of Islam...
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sister herb
04-07-2013, 12:37 PM
Salam alaykum

Thanks for sharing your story, sister.
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MustafaMc
04-07-2013, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
I was just at the hardware store, and the first thing that one of the assistants says to me is: 'Why are you hiding your face? I want to see you!' (its amazing how people desire to see things once they are hidden! lol!)
So, I understand you wear the niqab. Has that caused you any problems?

Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
I'm not the type to speak about religion to anyone that I meet......But, when someone makes the first move - we should seize the opportunity to welcome him and teach him as much as we can.
The person may be asking about your beard/ dress/ fasting/ prayers, etc......but ultimately our role is to lead the conversation towards understanding the core beliefs of Islam - and this may be your only chance to do so!
Jazak Allahu khayran, for your courage to be known publicly as a Muslim and to share a bit about Islam with people you meet. That was an interesting approach. This reminded me of a conversation I had with my uncle (WWII vet) before he died and I was surprised that he knew I needed to make pilgrimage to Mecca.
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~Zaria~
04-08-2013, 09:18 AM
:salamext:


Originally Posted by MustafaMc
So, I understand you wear the niqab. Has that caused you any problems?
Alhamdulillah, its been a year since I adopted the niqab.....and now I cant imagine life without it, subhanAllah.

I cant say that it has caused me any problems (yet), but the responses that I have received along the way have been interesting....

I work in the medical sector, and to be honest, I was soo concerned about the reactions of those that I care for, that it initially prevented me from wearing it at work.
But now that I do, Ive realised that the fears were my own.
Alhamdulillah, the majority of people that I see, do not have a problem with conversing with me in this way.
Even non-muslims, have been quite open and friendly about it (Im not sure if its because Im kinda petite/ small-built and so, perhaps I look less intimidating/ threatening).....Alhamdulillah, its been the means of people enquiring about islam as well.

Interestingly, Ive had the most 'negativity' from my muslim collegues!
Ive had muslim males (who barely know me), come to tell me that this is not part of Islam.
My one muslim friend literally began banging his head on the desk (in jest) when I first wore it to work (saying - 'pls remove that piece of clothe from your face, lol....)
Because its not very easy to try to explain the different interpretations regarding the niqaab, I usually take down their email address and send them a copy of brother Hamza's article in 'Niqaab: An Integral Part of Islam' : )
(Brother Hamza - if you are reading this: JazakumAllah khair! You have no idea how useful your article has been to me!)

Its not always successful.....as one needs to be willing to change their perspectives on a matter, before any change can occur. Many muslims today, are unfortunately not wanting to let go of their own notions/ beliefs in Islam - sometimes, even when there is concensus on an issue.

I think I feel the most 'uncomfortable' when I am in a group of 'classy' people - e.g. at conferences/ meetings. Everyone is dressed to kill, and Im usually the only one who is dressed in this way. Perhaps its my own self-confidence......but I just feel that I get 'stranger' looks at these types of places.
Fortunately, Ive stopped caring about what people think : )
All that really matters, is to obtain Allah (subhanawataála)'s pleasure.


Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Jazak Allahu khayran, for your courage to be known publicly as a Muslim and to share a bit about Islam with people you meet. That was an interesting approach. This reminded me of a conversation I had with my uncle (WWII vet) before he died and I was surprised that he knew I needed to make pilgrimage to Mecca.

Alhamdulillah, Ive learnt this approach at a course called 'Dawah Power' by ustaadh Hamza Tzorteis.

When I have a little more time, I'll start a topic about in shaa Allah.


:wasalam:
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Urban Turban
04-08-2013, 06:55 PM
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon - to this thread.

For sure Allah is the judge, but Allah rabbul izzat right in this world has granted us the Quran and Ahadith to judge ourselves - if Allah is the judge and he is going to ultimately decide who goes in and who isn't - then why quote the Quran and Ahadith, leave it to Allah and lead your lives as you are leading.

If being good was everything - read it again please, if being good was everything then why is calling people to Islam needed?

Why is so necessary to believe in and read and lead 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger' (peace and immense blessings be upon him) ?

Why were the Prophets (peace be upon him) sent?

We think there were no good and merciful caring Christians before Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) - and no good pious Jews before Prophet Jesus Christ (Isa) (Peace be upon him) etc etc ?

Like I said before... Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon - to this thread.

------------------------

---

A Muslim is someone who communicates the Commandments and Promises and Warnings of Allah honestly, as has been revealed in the Book & Sunnah, not someone who succumbs to political correctness and plants doubts in peoples minds, and prevents people from the path of Allah.

---



———————————————————————————————-



The Aqidah of the Ahlus Sunnah on who will be punished in the inferno and for how long, as stated in the Quran, Hadith, Teachings of Sahaba, and the Ijma’ of the scholars:

1. Sinful Muslims of the Ahlus Sunnah – for a temporary period of time to chastise them of their sins.

2. Those ahlul bid’ah (people of innovation) of the Muslims whose beliefs were somewhat corrupt and misled, but NOT to the extent of them becoming kafir
– for a temporary period of time to chastise them of their sins and corrupt beliefs are a greater sin than corrupt actions.

3. ALL Kafirs – whether they are those Ahlul bid’ah whose beliefs became corrupt to the extent of them becoming Kafirs (like the Isma’ilis and Alevis for instance); or other kafirs like Christians, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists etc. who heard the Prophet’s name and his call to worship Allah alone – they shall stay in the inferno unceasingly, for ever, their punishment shall neither be lessened, nor shall they ever leave the inferno, there shall be NO intercessors for them either – the Quran says this in black and white.

We pray to Allah to grant us a life on Iman and a death on Iman, and to let us be benefitted by His Beloved Messenger’s intercession on the day of judgment. Aamiin bi hurmati Nabiyyihil ameen.

:wa:
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Urban Turban
04-08-2013, 07:00 PM
Note this please:

A Muslim is someone who communicates the Commandments and Promises and Warnings of Allah honestly, as has been revealed in the Book & Sunnah, not someone who succumbs to political correctness and plants doubts in peoples minds, and prevents people from the path of Allah.
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MustafaMc
04-09-2013, 10:51 AM
Assalamu alaikum, Brother Urban Turban. You bring some good points, but I also see that your assuming people's motives for what they write and your labeling them as munafiqun is going too far. There is no doubt that the only acceptable religion with Allah (swt) is Islam, but there are several ayat in the Qur'an that can be interpreted as leaving a window to Paradise open to some People of the Book. Being politically correct has nothing to do with this statement.
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Urban Turban
04-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Assalamu alaikum, Brother Urban Turban. You bring some good points, but I also see that your assuming people's motives for what they write and your labeling them as munafiqun is going too far. There is no doubt that the only acceptable religion with Allah (swt) is Islam, but there are several ayat in the Qur'an that can be interpreted as leaving a window to Paradise open to some People of the Book. Being politically correct has nothing to do with this statement.
:wa:

I don't think I'd be adding to my previous posts (and some of which has been edited now by the mods - the responsibility is now on their shoulders) - the gist of which says that without the Shahadah (applicable as of last 1400 years) - there's no going in - and that's the opinion of the Ahlus Sunnah.

'The people of the book' of the present have no chance.

Who are doing the interpretations? Us? May Allah save us.

Of-course all those who believed in the time of previous Prophets (peace be upon them) and followed them are true believers too.

Hope this clears.

(and regarding the Munafiqun comment, we pass judgements based on the zaahir (whats apparent) - such diluted versions of Islam which they present from their writings is unacceptable - by the way those are comments of an Ahlus sunnah Scholar.

Period.
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IAmZamzam
04-09-2013, 12:52 PM
Every time I think I can't possibly become any more more suspicious of the phrase "politically correct" I hear someone utter it again...

I admit I may have missed something but I don't think I saw one single person here claim that "being good was everything". Planting doubt has nothing whatsoever to do with positively anything. We are simply stating our honest opinions. If you believe that anyone will be prevented from the path of Allah by a thread like this then you've got another thing coming. In fact if anything it's black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone attitudes like yours that actually turn people away. Do you really see it drawing people towards Islam? Really???
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Urban Turban
04-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by IAmZamzam
Every time I think I can't possibly become any more more suspicious of the phrase "politically correct" I hear someone utter it again...

I admit I may have missed something but I don't think I saw one single person here claim that "being good was everything". Planting doubt has nothing whatsoever to do with positively anything. We are simply stating our honest opinions. If you believe that anyone will be prevented from the path of Allah by a thread like this then you've got another thing coming. In fact if anything it's black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone attitudes like yours that actually turn people away. Do you really see it drawing people towards Islam? Really???
Got work...later inshaAllah.
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NjmYqlb
04-09-2013, 02:32 PM
:sl:

From what i learned it is quite simple to understand why people who do good but don't worship Allah will end up in Hell fire. Allah knows our deepest intentions, nothing is hidden from Him. On judgement day, when good deeds are presented, God will ask what was the intention of the good deed. People do good deeds for many reasons, to be praised by people, to please someone, forced by the company someone keeps or by the community or for a 'deity'. God will then show them that what they intended was fulfilled, they did get praised, their leaders and community were pleased, and those who worship other than Allah, He will tell them to ask their reward from whomever/whatever they worshiped and did their good deeds for. That day there will be no one who can help but Allah. So their good deeds become null and void.

That is what i learned, it is fair to let people ask their reward from whoever/whatever they deed their good deeds for, don't you think so? If anyone ignores Allah in this world, Allah will ignore them in the afterlife.

For those who never got any message about Allah from any source, i believe the answer is in Surah Asy-Syams (91:7-10). Everyone of us has a soul that will naturally long for God, those who follow their soul's guidance will succeed, those who corrupt it will fail. Some people call it conscience, it is the background feeling of right and wrong in the head.

Allah & His messenger knows best.
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Independent
04-09-2013, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by NjmYqlb
Everyone of us has a soul that will naturally long for God, those who follow their soul's guidance will succeed, those who corrupt it will fail.
Except that the overwhelming majority of those who find Islam just happen to be born in Muslim lands, into Muslim families. So it's not just a 'natural longing for God', something else has to be far more significant in the choice of religion.

Originally Posted by NjmYqlb
That is what i learned, it is fair to let people ask their reward from whoever/whatever they deed their good deeds for, don't you think so?
If a particular non-Muslim does a good deed without looking for any reward at all, how does that make him/her less worthy than a particular Muslim who may have acted speciifcally in an attempt to benefit themselves on Judgement Day?
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glo
04-09-2013, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
If a particular non-Muslim does a good deed without looking for any reward at all, how does that make him/her less worthy than a particular Muslim who may have acted speciifcally in an attempt to benefit themselves on Judgement Day?
I can think of atheists who do good - not to please anybody or for any personal gain, but simply because in their hearts of hearts it FEELS RIGHT (of course I am making a certain amount of assumptions here, since only God knows peoples' true intentions).
But they (being atheists) certainly don't do good to please or worship God - that much is certain.

However, I sometimes wonder if people have God's laws out inside them and have a deeper god-given knowledge of what's right and wrong, even if they don't recognise it as god-given.

Perhaps the question should be "Do we need to WANT to please God to be ABLE to please God?"
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NjmYqlb
04-09-2013, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
Except that the overwhelming majority of those who find Islam just happen to be born in Muslim lands, into Muslim families. So it's not just a 'natural longing for God', something else has to be far more significant in the choice of religion.
There was a survey done in UK and US once, (i don't have the reference unfortunately since i saw the slides in a sermon without a paper to write on) where people were asked what qualities they liked in a leader, in their parents, siblings & acquaintances. In the list are various qualities like justice, fairness, strong, truthful, honest etc. These are all the qualities of God as taught in Islam, our soul longs for these qualities which is what God is. As to the choice of religion, prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said it is the parents' influence. You might be surprised how many so called Muslims are just following traditions of their parents and not what is taught in the Al-Quran and Sunnah. Yes there are more born Muslims than reverts but the rewards God give to people is according to the difficulties faced. It is more difficult for a non-Muslim to revert, so as i understand it everything good a revert does has stronger weight than born Muslims.

Originally Posted by Independent
If a particular non-Muslim does a good deed without looking for any reward at all, how does that make him/her less worthy than a particular Muslim who may have acted speciifcally in an attempt to benefit themselves on Judgement Day?
Look deep enough there will be an intention to every deed. Say if someone does something good without wanting any reward, it probably would count as doing it for oneself, to make oneself feel good inside, so that is the reward or God would ask that someone to reward himself if he has any power to do so at that time. Acting/doing good for the sake of pleasing God is what Islam is. Islam is total submission/surrender to God's will

Allah & His messenger knows best.
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Independent
04-09-2013, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by NjmYqlb
Look deep enough there will be an intention to every deed.
I think you could question any motivation if you go deep enough - that's a complexity of human nature, not a religious issue. But if you're saying that a good deed is only a good deed, or only has moral value, when it's performed by a Muslim, then that's quite a statement.

Originally Posted by NjmYqlb
It is more difficult for a non-Muslim to revert, so as i understand it everything good a revert does has stronger weight than born Muslims.
Nevertheless they are (relatively) very few. Therefore you could argue that there is something in human nature that draws us to a religion, but not that our nature draws us to Islam in particular, as you have done above.

Originally Posted by glo
However, I sometimes wonder if people have God's laws out inside them and have a deeper god-given knowledge of what's right and wrong, even if they don't recognise it as god-given.
In effect that's exactly what Glo is arguing here.
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crimsontide06
04-09-2013, 05:31 PM
I told a devout Christian friend my opinion(you can read on the 1st page) and she said if that's true then there would be no purpose in religion.
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Independent
04-09-2013, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by crimsontide06
I told a devout Christian friend my opinion(you can read on the 1st page) and she said if that's true then there would be no purpose in religi
I agree with what you said. In fact, I'll go back and 'like' it!
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YusufNoor
04-09-2013, 05:45 PM
http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/...e-thirsty-dog/
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sister herb
04-09-2013, 05:48 PM
I am thinking (hopely this is not too much off topic) does non-muslims - I mean atheists, those whose reject exist of God - even want to go to Heaven? If they reject exist of God, they then should also reject exist of Heaven too.

Of course we don´t know how they see these things at the Day of Judgement...
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MrKhan89
04-09-2013, 05:50 PM
i guess that means that religion in general is just pointless and man-made, we shouldn't follow islam or any other religion then.

we should just simply follow the quran and call it " QURANANITY" lol

and we shouldn't listen to any imam or shiekh PERIOD, it's these people that make up certain things.
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glo
04-09-2013, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
I am thinking (hopely this is not too much off topic) does non-muslims - I mean atheists, those whose reject exist of God - even want to go to Heaven? If they reject exist of God, they then should also reject exist of Heaven too.
I have met atheists who said "I wish I could believe in a God - but I simply can't ...". So perhaps it's not as simple as assuming that atheists REJECT God. Instead they simply don't have what it takes to convince them that he is real.

I think sometimes believers take the attitude that atheists deep down know that God exists, but that they refuse to accept it.
That's not my experience of atheists. The one's I know simply say "I have no evidence for the existence of God - so why should I believe in Him?"

Of course we don´t know how they see these things at the Day of Judgement...
Good point!
We may all realise the ways in which we misunderstood God on the Day of Judgement ... :embarrass
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sister herb
04-09-2013, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by glo
We may all realise the ways in which we misunderstood God on the Day of Judgement ... :embarrass
That´s true too. Unfortunately our sense might be quite imperfect to understand many things and we try to replace truth by what we wish to be truth.

:embarrass
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NjmYqlb
04-09-2013, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
But if you're saying that a good deed is only a good deed, or only has moral value, when it's performed by a Muslim, then that's quite a statement.
I have read about the method you are using, imply something from a statement and argue on the implied meaning. I'll just say, i don't mean what you imply. My point is simple, God willing, He rewards good deeds done to please Him and He won't reward good deeds done for anything or anyone else.

Originally Posted by Independent
In effect that's exactly what Glo is arguing here.
I agree with Glo as well,
For those who never got any message about Allah from any source, I believe the answer is in Surah Asy-Syams (91:7-10). Everyone of us has a soul that will naturally long for God, those who follow their soul's guidance will succeed, those who corrupt it will fail. Some people call it conscience
Our soul is the fail-safe that God gave us the absence of a message from God. I'm not sure where i implied that it will draw "us to islam in particular"
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tearose
04-09-2013, 06:48 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2011/05/04/forgiving-major-sins-and-the-hadith-of-the-prostitute-who-gives-water-to-the-thirsty-dog/
Brother how does the link you posted pertain to the topic? It is about forgiveness of major sins, not about whether non-Muslims could enter jannah.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-09-2013, 07:12 PM
jannah is for muslims only. and even for muslims it isnt easy to get into so i always say to myself "how do you plan on defeating your lower self because jannah is surrounded by fitnah.... what is your hope?"

may sound heartless but i have little time to worry about those who reject Allah

althou i hope perhaps they will be guided by their own sincerity and Allah is most Just and Most Wise
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YusufNoor
04-09-2013, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by tearose
:sl: Brother how does the link you posted pertain to the topic? It is about forgiveness of major sins, not about whether non-Muslims could enter jannah.
:sorry:

i was actually trying (oh so hard) NOT to comment. here:


Forgiving Major Sins and the Hadith of the Prostitute Who Gives Water to the Thirsty Dog
May 4th, 2011
ShareShare SharePrint

Answered by Sidi Salman Younas

Question: My question is about the following hadith: A prostitute was forgiven by Allah because passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.

Does this mean that Allah will forgive major sins (all major sins excluding major kufr/major shirk) if one does good deeds even if one hasn’t actually repented for the major sin they committed? Or does the hadith mean that when she gave water to the thirsty dog Allah forgave a part of her sin (zina) but not all of the sin, only a part of it, is it possible that this is what was meant by the hadith?

Answer: assalamu `alaykum

Thank you for your question.

The position of Ahl al-Sunna is that Allah may forgive a major sin whether one repented from it or not. Even though the basis is that a major sin requires an actual act of repentance, it is within Allah’s power to forgive a slave who performs such an act even without him actually repenting. This is considered to be from Allah’s divine grace and favor.

The Meaning of the Narration in Question

The narration cited in the question is often used as proof by the scholars of Ahl al-Sunna that major sins may be forgiven even without repentance.

In his commentary on the narration in question, Imam Badr al-Din states that, “In it is a proof… that Allah may overlook major sins due to small acts of virtue as an act of divine favor from Him.” [`Umdat al-Qari] Similarly, Mulla `Ali al-Qari states, “In this narration is a proof for the forgiveness of a major sin without repentance and this is the position of the Ahl al-Sunna.” [Mirqat al-Mafatih]

The proof for the above position is also clear from the verse, “Allah does not forgive association of partners with Him and He forgives whatever is other than this for whomsoever He wills.” (4:48) Here, the particle “maa” (whatever) is considered general, including thereby both major and minor sins. Since there is no stipulated condition of such a forgiveness being after repentance in relation to a major sin, it is understood to mean that Allah may forgive any sin - including a major one before repentance - out of His pure grace and favor. [Baydawi, Anwar al-Tanzil; Razi, Tafsir al-Kabir]

This further serves as a refutation of certain groups who stated that Allah is necessitated to punish an individual who commits a major sin and does not repent from it.

As such, this narration is understood to be from the forgiveness of sins, including major sins, due to Allah’s grace and favor.

The Forgiveness of Major Sins

Based on the above, it can be stated that there are three ways in which a major sin can be forgiven:

a. By sincere repentance, which entails leaving the sin, remorse at performing it, and making the resolve to never perform it again. The scholars mention that in such a case one can be confident that his repentance has been accepted by Allah.

b. By Allah’s pure grace, generosity, and favor. Allah may therefore forgive whomsoever He wills without that individual having actually repented.

c. By the performance of certain acts, like Hajj, according to some scholars.

[Bajuri, Sharh al-Jawhara; Laqani, Hidayyat al-Murid]

And Allah Knows Best

Wassalam
Salman
does the hadith say it was a Muslim prostitute? yes??? no???

Muslims should actually know what shirk is, and i stress should; a non-Muslim doesn't have a clue.

enough?
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glo
04-10-2013, 06:06 AM
Originally Posted by sister harb
That´s true too. Unfortunately our sense might be quite imperfect to understand many things and we try to replace truth by what we wish to be truth.
We can only follow God in the best way we know and understand ... and hope and trust that in his great mercy he will forgive our shortcomings and misunderstandings.
I also hope and trust that he will forgive my atheist friends their inability to believe in him.
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Urban Turban
04-10-2013, 09:11 AM
@YusifNoor, brother, I hope you aren't referring to Shirk as a major sin - because as far as I know that is outright disbelief which will take one outside the fold of Islam - major sins are adultery, leaving fardh salah's knowing without any reason, alcohol etc
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Urban Turban
04-10-2013, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by IAmZamzam
Every time I think I can't possibly become any more more suspicious of the phrase "politically correct" I hear someone utter it again...

I admit I may have missed something but I don't think I saw one single person here claim that "being good was everything". Planting doubt has nothing whatsoever to do with positively anything. We are simply stating our honest opinions. If you believe that anyone will be prevented from the path of Allah by a thread like this then you've got another thing coming. In fact if anything it's black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone attitudes like yours that actually turn people away. Do you really see it drawing people towards Islam? Really???
Since when is it thought that Muslims (Born and reverts) are doing a favor upon Allah (nauzobillah) by accepting Islam?

In-fact we are doing a favor upon ourselves.

The stocks of Islam aren't going to go up or down when people start accepting or leaving it.

I have already said this on my blog:

Islam doesn't need the numbers, remember once upon a time in history, 313 mostly poor Muslims were enough to uphold the truth while today nearly 1 billion Muslims aren't able to shake a feather. (Its in the about section)

And you haven't read my previous posts in this thread or at-least have not paid attention to them.

Abu Talib too helped the Prophet (pbuh), you know.

So I hope you understand brother.
Reply

Al-Mufarridun
04-10-2013, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by Urban Turban
The Aqidah of the Ahlus Sunnah on who will be punished in the inferno and for how long, as stated in the Quran, Hadith, Teachings of Sahaba, and the Ijma’ of the scholars:

1. Sinful Muslims of the Ahlus Sunnah – for a temporary period of time to chastise them of their sins.

2. Those ahlul bid’ah (people of innovation) of the Muslims whose beliefs were somewhat corrupt and misled, but NOT to the extent of them becoming kafir
– for a temporary period of time to chastise them of their sins and corrupt beliefs are a greater sin than corrupt actions.

3. ALL Kafirs – whether they are those Ahlul bid’ah whose beliefs became corrupt to the extent of them becoming Kafirs (like the Isma’ilis and Alevis for instance); or other kafirs like Christians, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists etc. who heard the Prophet’s name and his call to worship Allah alone – they shall stay in the inferno unceasingly, for ever, their punishment shall neither be lessened, nor shall they ever leave the inferno, there shall be NO intercessors for them either – the Quran says this in black and white.

We pray to Allah to grant us a life on Iman and a death on Iman, and to let us be benefitted by His Beloved Messenger’s intercession on the day of judgment. Aamiin bi hurmati Nabiyyihil ameen.

:wa:
:sl: Akhee

In the Aqidah of Ahlus Sunnah, what is the view regarding those who have not heard of the Prophet nor Islam?

For example, what is the view regarding one of those isolated tribes in the Amazon? those who are illiterate, indigenous and isolated.

Also regarding this Hadith;

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed:
By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me,
but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief),
he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.
(Sahih Muslim)

We understand that this hadith is referring to the people of the book, but do you think that just hearing the Prophet's name, Muhammad :saws: is sufficient? or do they need to receive a sufficient Dawah on the Prophet and His Message?


Allah :swt: knows best.
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YusufNoor
04-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by Urban Turban
@YusifNoor, brother, I hope you aren't referring to Shirk as a major sin - because as far as I know that is outright disbelief which will take one outside the fold of Islam - major sins are adultery, leaving fardh salah's knowing without any reason, alcohol etc
you know, y'all make me feel like Frank Zappa, which makes me want to pull a Miles Davis; when i'd rather be like Gene Kelly just a skippin' and slippin' down the streets and singin' in the rain! :alright:

now, i realize that my English can be a wee bit hard to follow [sorry, it goes back to my childhood. it was seen as a disability then, i just gave up caring ;D], and that English is a 2nd language to some folks here, so i expect that my posts will be ms-understood by more than a couple of folks...

but um...exactly where do you see me referencing shirk in that post? and while shirk IS referenced in the quote it says, and i quote:

Allah does not forgive association of partners with Him
i was kind of emphasizing, you know, the red bits, that i like, made like really bigger than the rest. i thought folks woulda caught that.

it's very simple you know. all you gotta do is...you know, follow the yellow brick, just follow the yellow brick road...

if i only had a brain...:wub:
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MustafaMc
04-10-2013, 11:29 AM
Originally Posted by Urban Turban
Since when is it thought that Muslims (Born and reverts) are doing a favor upon Allah (nauzobillah) by accepting Islam?
Honestly, I don't know where you get some of the conclusions you draw from what others write. The brother above said nothing about doing Allah (swt) a favor when someone converts to Islam. What he was talking about was for us to invite others to Islam in the best way.
Islam doesn't need the numbers, remember once upon a time in history, 313 mostly poor Muslims were enough to uphold the truth while today nearly 1 billion Muslims aren't able to shake a feather.
I don't know where this attitude of "quality vs quantity" of Muslims comes in, but I have seen it portrayed by others. Who made us judge and jury to know the 'quality' of someone else's iman? Tell me, do you know for a fact the quality of your own iman and the purity of your own heart? My opinion is that none of us knows the sincerity of our innermost intentions or the state of our iman at our death. Are we guilty of some hidden shirk, such as showing off to be praised by others? If we are incapable of judging our own souls, then what does that say about our inability to judge someone else. I believe that we have a heavy responsibility to convey the message of Islam and to invite others to our blessed deen. This fact was illustrated from the earliest days of Islam and when delegates were sent out to the different rulers.
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IAmZamzam
04-10-2013, 03:04 PM
Indeed. I would like to add that there has never been a time, and never will be one (at least until the sun rises from the west), in which Islam doesn't need higher numbers. What kind of talk is that??! Until now, brother Urban, your attitude has merely been unpleasantly "us vs. them", but it hasn't actually been dangerous. Now it seems to be turning actively anti-dawah.
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Urban Turban
04-10-2013, 03:42 PM
:wa:
Originally Posted by Al-Mufarridun
:sl: Akhee

In the Aqidah of Ahlus Sunnah, what is the view regarding those who have not heard of the Prophet nor Islam?

For example, what is the view regarding one of those isolated tribes in the Amazon? those who are illiterate, indigenous and isolated.

Also regarding this Hadith;

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed:
By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me,
but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief),
he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.
(Sahih Muslim)



We understand that this hadith is referring to the people of the book, but do you think that just hearing the Prophet's name, Muhammad :saws: is sufficient? or do they need to receive a sufficient Dawah on the Prophet and His Message?


Allah :swt: knows best.
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
you know, y'all make me feel like Frank Zappa, which makes me want to pull a Miles Davis; when i'd rather be like Gene Kelly just a skippin' and slippin' down the streets and singin' in the rain! :alright:

now, i realize that my English can be a wee bit hard to follow [sorry, it goes back to my childhood. it was seen as a disability then, i just gave up caring ;D], and that English is a 2nd language to some folks here, so i expect that my posts will be ms-understood by more than a couple of folks...

but um...exactly where do you see me referencing shirk in that post? and while shirk IS referenced in the quote it says, and i quote:

i was kind of emphasizing, you know, the red bits, that i like, made like really bigger than the rest. i thought folks woulda caught that.

it's very simple you know. all you gotta do is...you know, follow the yellow brick, just follow the yellow brick road...

if i only had a brain...:wub:
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Honestly, I don't know where you get some of the conclusions you draw from what others write. The brother above said nothing about doing Allah (swt) a favor when someone converts to Islam. What he was talking about was for us to invite others to Islam in the best way.
Then what does bro Zamzam mean by this
'In fact if anything it's black-and-white, fire-and-brimstone attitudes like yours that actually turn people away. Do you really see it drawing people towards Islam? Really???'
What makes him think what I said would turn people away from Islam?

Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I don't know where this attitude of "quality vs quantity" of Muslims comes in, but I have seen it portrayed by others. Who made us judge and jury to know the 'quality' of someone else's iman? Tell me, do you know for a fact the quality of your own iman and the purity of your own heart? My opinion is that none of us knows the sincerity of our innermost intentions or the state of our iman at our death. Are we guilty of some hidden shirk, such as showing off to be praised by others? If we are incapable of judging our own souls, then what does that say about our inability to judge someone else. I believe that we have a heavy responsibility to convey the message of Islam and to invite others to our blessed deen. This fact was illustrated from the earliest days of Islam and when delegates were sent out to the different rulers.
You said 'My opinion is that none of us knows the sincerity of our innermost intentions or the state of our iman at our death.' - Which is why we judge according to what is whats apparent,

What dawah are we talking about, for get the dawah for a moment and lets only concentrate on: 'Is Allah going to put non-muslims in heaven?'

I feel some people here are worried as to what the non-Muslims will think? What will they think what will they say?

I hope I'm wrong.
---------------

@Al-Mufarridun, Yusuf, inshaAllah I'll get a Scholar to directly answer this. Even though I don't know what's there to answer except for Al-Muffaridun's post.
--------------------
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Urban Turban
04-10-2013, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Mufarridun
sufficient Dawah
How much Dawah is sufficient dawah? ^o) :D
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IAmZamzam
04-10-2013, 04:27 PM
"Sufficient dawah"? I'm sorry, is that a thing now?

Fire-and-brimstone attitudes in general never draw people towards any religion. Or at least not that I know of. What's that old saying about honey, vinegar and attracting flies?
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