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truthseeker63
04-20-2013, 12:39 PM
As Salamu Alaykum my question is Do Christians have a claim to Bitain or Europe or the West in general my opinion is No look at the link below thank you what does everyone think ? My point is that Islam is not alien to the West or to Europe.

Christianity originated not in the Great Britain but in the Middle East. The Christians migrated to Europe bringing their religion with them. Similarly, while Islam too, originated in the Middle East, Muslims migrated to Europe and all over the world. Today, Britain is a multi-faith society and Muslims are part of this society just as Christians and people of other faith.
If any one expects Muslims to go back to Middle East, then in all fairness, Christians must go back too because historically, Great Britain was the land of pagans before Romans invaded this country!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-to-Islam.html




During the Saxon Wars, the Christian Frankish king Charlemagne waged war on the pagan Saxons for over 20 years, seeking to Christianize and rule the Saxons. During this period, the Saxons repeatedly refused Christianization and the rule of Charlemagne, and therefore rebelled frequently. In the year 782 of this period, Charlemagne is recorded as having massacred 4,500 rebel Saxon prisoners in Verden (the Massacre of Verden), and imposing legislation upon the subjected Saxons that including the penalty of death for refusing conversion to Christianity or for aiding pagans who did the same (such as the Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae). While rebellions continued to take place even after his death (such as that of the Stellinga), Charlemagne succeeded in laying the groundwork for the Christianization of the Saxons, yet was unable to reach the Scandinavians, who remained pagan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism

Is there any history of Islamic law in Britain?
The Archbishop of Canterbury is not the first person to suggest Britain should adopt certain aspects of the Muslim faith. In 1213, King John I, excommunicated by Catholic Europe and faced with a revolt by his own barons, turned to the only other regional power: that of Morocco.
He sent two envoys to meet the powerful King Mohammed en-Nasir to ask for his support to quell his restive barons. In exchange, King John offered to convert to Islam and to bring his kingdom into the faith as well. But the Moroccan ruler decided that a king who was prepared to betray his own religion and subjects would probably not make a good ally, and turned him down. The two knights were sent packing and King John I was forced to sign the Magna Carta.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/fe...eligion.world1

Is Britain a Christian country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYd6k7peIwU

Richard Dawkins on the Big Debate 3 of 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjnL4HVoMU


A Glimpse of Muslim Spain

With the arrival of the Muslims in Spain, the once arid and illiterate land became the capital of European scholarship and agriculture, where people of all faiths were granted security under Muslim rule.

When you think of European culture, one of the first things that may come to
your mind is the renaissance. Many of the roots of European culture can be
traced back to that glorious time of art, science, commerce and architecture.
But did you know that long before the renaissance there was a place of
humanistic beauty in Muslim Spain? Not only was it artistic, scientific and
commercial, but it also exhibited incredible tolerance, imagination and poetry.
Muslims, as the Spaniards call the Muslims, populated Spain for nearly 700
years. As you’ll see, it was their civilization that enlightened Europe and
brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance. Many of their
cultural and intellectual influences still live with us today.
Way back during the eighth
century, Europe was still knee-deep in the Medieval period. That’s not the only
thing they were knee-deep in. In his book, “The Day The Universe Changed,” the
historian James Burke describes how the typical European townspeople lived:

“The inhabitants threw all their refuse into the drains in
the center of the narrow streets. The stench must have been overwhelming,
though it appears to have gone virtually unnoticed. Mixed with excrement and
urine would be the soiled reeds and straw used to cover the dirt floors. (p.
32)

This squalid society was
organized under a feudal system and had little that would resemble a commercial
economy. Along with other restrictions, the Catholic Church forbade the lending
of money - which didn’t help get things booming much. “Anti-Semitism,
previously rare, began to increase. Money lending, which was forbidden by the
Church, was permitted under Jewish law.” (Burke, 1985, p. 32) Jews worked to
develop a currency although they were heavily persecuted for it. Medieval
Europe was a miserable lot, which ran high in illiteracy, superstition,
barbarism and filth.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/522/

Is Islam or Christianity the best future for Britain? Peter Hitchens vs Ibrahim Mogra

Peter Hitchens is a well known journalist and Anglican Christian. Unlike his atheist brother Christopher, he believes Christianity is an essential bedrock for society. He says Islam will fill the spiritual vaccuum of Britain if secularists have their way.

Ibrahim Mogra represents the Muslim Council of Britain. He says that Muslims are only interested in living harmoniously within society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPn-_S-0wGk
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truthseeker63
04-20-2013, 12:49 PM
IS AMERICA A CHRISTIAN NATION?1

What about the Pilgrims and Puritans?
The first colony of English-speaking Europeans was Jamestown, settled in 1609 for trade, not religious freedom. Fewer than half of the 102 Mayflower passengers in 1620 were "Pilgrims" seeking religious freedom. The secular United States of America was formed more than a century and a half later. If tradition requires us to return to the views of a few early settlers, why not adopt the polytheistic and natural beliefs of the Native Americans, the true founders of the continent at least 12,000 years earlier?

http://www.christianity-revealed.com...iannation.html

The Islamic Arabs (and later the Moors) occupied a number of the Mediterranean
Islands, and invaded Spain and Portugal in 711 CE, and ruled over much of the
Iberian peninsula for the next 800 years. France was attacked and invaded, as
was Italy, and the European coasts all the way to Ireland and Iceland. The
Muslims swept over the Balkans, besieged Vienna, and were intermittent masters
of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary into the 19th century, destroying the
Byzantines and conquering Constantinople (turning it into Istanbul). Ambitious
and unrelenting, the Muslims also sought to conquer Austria and Russia.

http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-West-Mus.../dp/1573922471
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Scimitar
04-20-2013, 01:54 PM
in my opinion, Christians do have a better claim to Europe than Muslims, simply because they reached here first, and implemented their systems of governance way before Muslims even existed.

The Roman empire stretched as far north as Brittany, and all the lands up to Brittany (England and Wales) was under Roman Catholic rule.

Romans, too, have their roots in Paganism... let's not forget, so did the Arabs.

So when you say "If any one expects Muslims to go back to Middle East, then in all fairness, Christians must go back too because historically, Great Britain was the land of pagans before Romans invaded this country!" I have to return with the above observation.

Go back to where exactly? There is no land on earth that has been spared paganism at some time or another. If the requisite for determining the exodus of entire nations hinges on their pagan roots, then I guess this world will be divided even further through this very same sectarian principle.

Not to mention culture shock and adjusting to a totally different way of life... either wy, that's neither here nor there.

What is relevant, is 'how things stand today'.

The United Kindgom has 5% of Muslims numbering the population. We're guests in the UK. And we should understand what that means from an Islamic perspective.

I live in London, and I have to say - I don't have a problem with living here at all. Infact, it's a lot better living here than in some supposedly Muslim countries. Like Turkey for example - where I got booted out of the blue mosque after reading my 2 rakah fardh for Jummah, yes - I started my sunnah salaah and the security guard throws me out. I can't imagine that happening in the UK - but it happened in Turkey.

Your posts are interesting though, I briefly checked some of the links and they provide food for thought. But I do feel that sometimes we should look at things in an honest way, and with the view that the majority of Muslims in the west - don't have a problem living there at all. It's only a small minority of Muslims who will have problems, usually because they feel the world is against them or something.

Scimi
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Karl
04-21-2013, 01:35 AM
No the whole area was heathen and pagan. Norse Gods in the north classical Gods in the south. Americas were all pagan native Indians. Monotheism is a relatively modern introduction. Christianity and Islam like Judaism is foreign to Europe.
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Futuwwa
04-21-2013, 02:41 AM
No, they don't. Nobody has. The whole world belongs to everyone. Anyone who would forcibly assert privilege by birth belongs under the blade of the guillotine.
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Karl
04-21-2013, 08:00 AM
Christianity seems to be on the way out in Europe but the godless fascists that are replacing them hate Islam and every other religion because no established religion exalts state worshipping, feminism and homosexuality.
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Futuwwa
04-21-2013, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Christianity seems to be on the way out in Europe but the godless fascists that are replacing them hate Islam and every other religion because no established religion exalts state worshipping, feminism and homosexuality.
Huh? Since when do Fascists exalt feminism and homosexuality? ^o)
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Karl
04-25-2013, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Huh? Since when do Fascists exalt feminism and homosexuality? ^o)
You got me there, I should say godless totalitarian collectivists. The Fascists were Roman Catholics but today people use Facsists wrongly, I appologise. The Facsists were angels compared with this modern lot.
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