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truthseeker63
04-28-2013, 08:40 PM
As Salamu Alaykum my question is about the Thoery about the Jews being Khazars ? I have read a Book called the Thirteenth Tribe Published in 1976 by Arthur Koestler my question is since or if Ashkenazi Jews from Europe are Khazars who Converted to Judaism how do we explain the genetic testing/dna testing/genetic Ancestry tests saying the Ashkenazi European Jews have Middle Eastern Ancestry/Ancestry from the Middle East if Jews are not Israelites ? Can this be explained by if Ashkenazi European Jews are of Mixed Race Ancestry the Book says the Khazars were Asian Turkics and mixed with other Races and the Khazars went to war with the Arabs and Im sure there was mixing not sure how the Khazars found out about Judaism/Jews thank you ?

Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

A collection of abstracts and reviews of books, articles, and genetic
studies


Jewish ancestry. Part of the story is that Eastern European Jews have
significant Eastern Mediterranean elements which manifest themselves in close
relationships with Kurdish, Armenian, Palestinian Arab, Lebanese, Syrian, and
Anatolian Turkish peoples. This is why the Y-DNA haplogroups J and E, which are
typical of the Middle East, are so common among them. Jewish lineages from this
region of the world derive from both the Levant and the Anatolia-Armenia region.
At the same time, there are traces of European (including Northern Italian and
Western Slavic or Eastern Slavic) and Khazar ancestry among European Jews. Many
Greek and Roman women married Jewish men before conversion to Judaism was
outlawed by the Roman Empire, and many of the Southern European ancestral lines
in Ashkenazic families come from these marriages. Ethiopian Jews mostly descend
from Ethiopian Africans who converted to Judaism, but may also be related to a
lesser extent to Yemenite Jews. Yemenite Jews descend from Arabs and Israelites.
North African Jewish and Kurdish Jewish paternal lineages come from Israelites.
Jewish Y-DNA tends to come from the Middle East, and that studies that take into
account mtDNA show that many Jewish populations are related to neighboring
non-Jewish groups maternally. All existing studies fail to compare modern Jewish
populations' DNA to ancient Judean DNA and medieval Khazarian DNA, but in the
absence of old DNA, comparisons with living populations appear to be adequate to
trace geographic roots.

Jewish Genetics - DNA, genes, Jews, Ashkenazi
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truthseeker63
04-30-2013, 10:45 AM
Please Reply.

As Salamu Alaykum
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Logikon
05-01-2013, 01:45 AM
From Wikipedia:

Jewish communities had existed in the Greek cities of the Black Sea coast since late classical times.

Chersonesos, Sudak, Kerch and other Crimean cities sustained Jewish communities, as did Gorgippia, and Samkarsh / Tmutarakan was said to have had a Jewish majority as early as the 670s.

Jews fled from Byzantium to Khazaria as a consequence of persecution under Heraclius, Justinian II, Leo III, and Romanos I.

These were joined by other Jews fleeing from Sassanid Persia and later, the Islamic world.

Jewish merchants such as the Radhanites regularly traded in Khazar territory, and may have wielded significant economic and political influence.

Though their origins and history are somewhat unclear, the Mountain Jews also lived in or near Khazar territory and may have been allied with the Khazars, or subject to them; it is conceivable that they, too, played a role in Khazar conversion.

At some point in the last decades of the 8th century or the early 9th century, the Khazar royalty and nobility converted to Judaism, and part of the general population may have followed.

The extent of the conversion is debated. The 10th-century Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih reported that "all the Khazars are Jews." Notwithstanding this statement, most scholars believe that only the upper classes converted to Judaism. There is some support for this in contemporary Muslim texts.

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truthseeker63
05-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Anyone else have any view on this ?

Please look at the Link.
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Karl
05-05-2013, 12:48 AM
Abraham founded Judaism and he was from the city of Ur in present day Iraq. He was a Semite as the early Jews were but the religion spread and other races took it on. Jesus was a Semite and Christianity spread throuhout the world. And Mohammad was a Semite and Islam has spread throughout the world.
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Insaanah
05-05-2013, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Abraham founded Judaism [...]
Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists. (3:67)

They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." (2:135)

Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. (2:140)

Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers. (3:68)

Abraham (peace be upon him) may have been the forefather of the Children of Israa'eel, but he did not found Judaism. If he founded anything, it was belief in One True God, without any associate in His Exclusive Divinity, and unswerving uprightness and obedience and devotion to Him, and surrender and submission to Him (Islam), at a time when his community was steeped in polytheism.

Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah. (16:123)
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truthseeker63
05-05-2013, 08:48 PM
My question is about the Thoery about the Jews being Khazars ? I have read a Book called the Thirteenth Tribe Published in 1976 by Arthur Koestler my question is since or if Ashkenazi Jews from Europe are Khazars who Converted to Judaism how do we explain the genetic testing/dna testing/genetic Ancestry tests saying the Ashkenazi European Jews have Middle Eastern Ancestry/Ancestry from the Middle East if Jews are not Israelites ?


Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

A collection of abstracts and reviews of books, articles, and genetic
studies


Jewish ancestry. Part of the story is that Eastern European Jews have
significant Eastern Mediterranean elements which manifest themselves in close
relationships with Kurdish, Armenian, Palestinian Arab, Lebanese, Syrian, and
Anatolian Turkish peoples. This is why the Y-DNA haplogroups J and E, which are
typical of the Middle East, are so common among them. Jewish lineages from this
region of the world derive from both the Levant and the Anatolia-Armenia region.
At the same time, there are traces of European (including Northern Italian and
Western Slavic or Eastern Slavic) and Khazar ancestry among European Jews. Many
Greek and Roman women married Jewish men before conversion to Judaism was
outlawed by the Roman Empire, and many of the Southern European ancestral lines
in Ashkenazic families come from these marriages. Ethiopian Jews mostly descend
from Ethiopian Africans who converted to Judaism, but may also be related to a
lesser extent to Yemenite Jews. Yemenite Jews descend from Arabs and Israelites.
North African Jewish and Kurdish Jewish paternal lineages come from Israelites.
Jewish Y-DNA tends to come from the Middle East, and that studies that take into
account mtDNA show that many Jewish populations are related to neighboring
non-Jewish groups maternally. All existing studies fail to compare modern Jewish
populations' DNA to ancient Judean DNA and medieval Khazarian DNA, but in the
absence of old DNA, comparisons with living populations appear to be adequate to
trace geographic roots.

Jewish Genetics - DNA, genes, Jews, Ashkenazi
Reply

truthseeker63
05-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Insaanah may I ak since Islam is the religion of all Prophets where did Judaism/Jews come from ? Doesn't the word Jew mean from the Israelite Tribe of Judea/Judah ? Did the Israelites who worshiiped the Golden Calf become Jews this is what I have heard thank you ?
Reply

Karl
05-05-2013, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists. (3:67)

They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." (2:135)

Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. (2:140)

Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers. (3:68)

Abraham (peace be upon him) may have been the forefather of the Children of Israa'eel, but he did not found Judaism. If he founded anything, it was belief in One True God, without any associate in His Exclusive Divinity, and unswerving uprightness and obedience and devotion to Him, and surrender and submission to Him (Islam), at a time when his community was steeped in polytheism.

Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah. (16:123)
Did Abraham (PBUH) ever say "Allah"? What did he call the One True God?
Reply

Insaanah
05-06-2013, 05:22 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by truthseeker63
since Islam is the religion of all Prophets where did Judaism/Jews come from ? Doesn't the word Jew mean from the Israelite Tribe of Judea/Judah ?
That was my understanding. But that was after the time of Ibrahim (alayhi assalaam) which is why I said he didn't found Judaism. Some Jews do ascribe the word from Judah. If you think about it, from an Islamic point of view, Christ (peace be upon him) did not found the beliefs currently called Christianity.

Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Did the Israelites who worshiiped the Golden Calf become Jews this is what I have heard thank you ?
I'm afraid I don't know. May be some others more knowledgeable than me will know.

Originally Posted by Karl
Did Abraham (PBUH) ever say "Allah"?
Yes.

Originally Posted by Karl
What did he call the One True God?
Allah.

The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying):, "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims." (2:132)

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day." ... (2:126, part)

...Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. (2:258, part)

[Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Do you then worship besides Allah, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you? (21:66)

And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know. (29:16)

Praise be to Allah, who has granted to me in old age Ishmael and Isaac. Indeed, my Lord is the Hearer of supplication. (14:39)

And Allah knows best.
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Karl
05-06-2013, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Insaanah may I ak since Islam is the religion of all Prophets where did Judaism/Jews come from ? Doesn't the word Jew mean from the Israelite Tribe of Judea/Judah ? Did the Israelites who worshiiped the Golden Calf become Jews this is what I have heard thank you ?
The Hebrews that worshipped the golden calf were killed by God as they were idolators at the time of Moses (PBUH) and the Ten Commandments. Worshipping of cattle was very popular in Egypt and the Middle East and even became popular in pagan Rome and is still popular in India. And you may wonder why the other idolators were not killed by God and the answer is that the Hebrews called upon their God to liberate them from Egypt and they were liberated but then some left their God to worship the Golden Calf when things were good. They had broken their covenant with the Lord so they got punished. You should get the epic classic The Ten Commandments (1956) With Charlton Heston as Moses. Most of the Hebrews and Egyptians are Anglo Saxons but hey that's Hollywood, you have to look good for the role not authentic.
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IAmZamzam
05-06-2013, 11:21 PM
The Arabic text has Abraham saying "Allah", yes, but it also has him speaking Arabic just in general, along with everyone else--including Palestinians, some unidentified figures who might have been Turkish or Roman, and let's not forget our forebears in Eden who predated all known extant languages. We mustn't be literal-minded about these things. My guess is that the word Abraham actually spoke aloud was "Elohim" (the exact equivalent of "Allah" in terms of meaning), but we have no way of knowing. In fact I'm not at all sure if the term "Allah" even existed yet in his day but I'm no etymologist.
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Karl
05-06-2013, 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by IAmZamzam
The Arabic text has Abraham saying "Allah", yes, but it also has him speaking Arabic just in general, along with everyone else--including Palestinians, some unidentified figures who might have been Turkish or Roman, and let's not forget our forebears in Eden who predated all known extant languages. We mustn't be literal-minded about these things. My guess is that the word Abraham actually spoke aloud was "Elohim" (the exact equivalent of "Allah" in terms of meaning), but we have no way of knowing. In fact I'm not at all sure if the term "Allah" even existed yet in his day but I'm no etymologist.
I did a bit of research and Allah literally means "the God" in Arabic. So it is a discription not a name.
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