Being both Muslim and Christian?

[glo]

Any thoughts on this?

Redding, who will begin teaching the New Testament as a visiting assistant professor at Seattle University this fall, has a different analogy: "I am both Muslim and Christian, just like I'm both an American of African descent and a woman. I'm 100 percent both."

Redding doesn't feel she has to resolve all the contradictions. People within one religion can't even agree on all the details, she said. "So why would I spend time to try to reconcile all of Christian belief with all of Islam?

"At the most basic level, I understand the two religions to be compatible. That's all I need."

[...]

Redding knows there are many Christians and Muslims who will not accept her as both.

"I don't care," she says. "They can't take away my baptism." And as she understands it, once she's made her profession of faith to become a Muslim, no one can say she isn't that, either.

While she doesn't rule out that one day she may choose one or the other, it's more likely "that I'm going to be 100 percent Christian and 100 percent Muslim when I die."

http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...edding17m.html

[MustafaMc]

Glo, rather than her being both Muslim and Christian, it seems she is neither. Her beliefs seem to be a hybrid with some being inconsistent with one faith and other beliefs being inconsistent with the other. She seems to rely upon her own intellect as opposed to accepting the tenets of either faith.

[Vito]

There's a reason why they're two different religions. Even she herself finds the idea of Jesus pbuh NOT dying on the cross to be a challenging thought to overcome. That alone is pretty much Islam 101. If you want to pick and choose certain aspects of different religions to follow, might as well create your own religion. This about sums it up:

Being both Muslim and Christian — "I don't know how that works," said Hisham Farajallah, president of the Islamic Center of Washington.

[Insaanah]

Saheeh International

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy. (2:208)

Allah commands His servants who believe in Him and have faith in His Messenger to implement all of Islam's legislation and law, to adhere to all of its commandments, as much as they can, and to refrain from all of its prohibitions. `Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas said, and also Mujahid, Tawus, Ad-Dahhak, `Ikrimah, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Ibn Zayd said that Allah's statement:

ادْخُلُواْ فِي السِّلْمِ

(Enter Silm) means Islam. Allah's statement:

كَآفَّةً

(...perfectly) means, in its entirety. This is the Tafsir of Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Abu Al-`Aliyah, `Ikrimah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, As-Suddi, Muqatil bin Hayyan, Qatadah and Ad-Dahhak. Mujahid said that the Ayah means, `Perform all the good works and the various pious deeds, this is especially addressed to those from among the People of the Scripture who embraced the faith.'

Ibn Abu Hatim reported that Ibn `Abbas said that:

يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ادْخُلُواْ فِي السِّلْمِ كَآفَّةً

(O you who believe! Enter Silm perfectly) refers to the believers among the People of the Scripture. This is because they believed in Allah, some of them still followed some parts of the Tawrah and the previous revelations. So Allah said:

ادْخُلُواْ فِي السِّلْمِ كَآفَّةً

(Enter Islam perfectly.) Allah thus commanded them to embrace the legislation of the religion of Muhammad in its entirety and to avoid abandoning any part of it. They should no longer adhere to the Tawrah.

(Tafseer ibn Kathir)

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...sk=view&id=203

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[Hulk]

"I am both Muslim and Christian, just like I'm both an American of African descent and a woman. I'm 100 percent both."

ok then

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you glo, I am not sure how you can give one hundred percent to two faiths,

I am a Catholic, and during the last two weeks I have prayed in the Redeemed Church of Christ, an Anglican Church, Salvation Army, Baptist Church and of course my own.

I find it a blessing to pray with them and to pray for them, I have also had the privilege to pray in an interfaith setting for people of all faiths.

My thoughts go beyond praying together, I find it an even greater blessing when we can do and share things together in order to bring glory to God. Despite all these apparent contradictions, I see myself as Catholic

In the spirit of praying to ‘One God’

Eric

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Just to add.

Instead of trying to drive people to the lowest common denominator, why cant it be accepted that people have different faiths/worldviews that are often at odds with one another and learn to live with difference.

This is a relevant.

[ardianto]

A chat in an evening
"Hey guys!, if a Muslim marries a Christian, what would their kids become?"
"Both Muslim and Christian!. Friday, go to mosque. Sunday, go to the church!"
Then we laugh. We knew it's just joking. From we have seen, kids from marriage like this if not became Muslim, became Christian.

But after reading that article, maybe I must tell my friends. Both Muslim and Christian is really exist. :hmm:

Redding believes telling her story can help ease religious tensions

The way to ease religious tensions is not with mixing two faith like this, but with raise an attitude which both parties respect each other difference.

[Muhaba]

I think she's in a state of confusion possibly because of lack of knowledge. As her knowledge and insight increases she'll choose one religion or the other.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Junon;

Instead of trying to drive people to the lowest common denominator,

We always loose track of the lowest common denominator, it is the nine hundred million people who go to bed hungry every night, the twenty thousand children who die needlessly from grinding poverty every day. These are people of all faiths and no faith, they are so low down as a common denominator we do not see them.

Scholars have gone through the Bible and highlighted about two thousand passages; that refer to justice for the poor and oppressed.

If all religions made a joint effort to eradicate poverty together; then we would see a wonderful lowest common denominator.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I have never understood this.

You cant be a muslim unless you believe anyone who dies upon other then islam goes to Hell for eternity as per the correct islamic teaching.

[glo]

Like the rest of you I struggle with the idea of how one can identify with both religions (not only in equal measures, but - according to Redding - 100% to each). I feel that despite the many many similarities. the differences are just too important.

I found it interesting that Redding does not seem to believe Jesus to be divine - which really puts her more in the 'Muslim camp'. On the other hand she believes that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected - which really flies in the face of Islamic teaching.

On a personal note, there is much I have learned from Islam - the importance of submitting to God's will and the beauty of prescribed regular prayer are two that spring to mind immediately. :)
But my Christian beliefs about Jesus have always taken priority, and those are the filters I understand Islam through.

I am a member in a Christian Muslim Forum and there I have met other people who claim that they can reconcile Christianity and Islam completely. Those people are in the minority and probably frowned upon by us 'mainstreamers' - but they clearly do exist.

I admire and appreciate the efforts they bring to communication and joint working between the two faiths, so I welcome people like Rev. Ann Holmes Redding. :)

[Insaanah]

I found it interesting that Redding does not seem to believe Jesus to be divine - which really puts her more in the 'Muslim camp'.

My understanding from the article is that she does believe him (and us all) to be divine:

She believes Jesus is the son of God insofar as all humans are the children of God, and that Jesus is divine, just as all humans are divine — because God dwells in all humans.

What makes Jesus unique, she believes, is that out of all humans, he most embodied being filled with God and identifying completely with God's will.

The concept of God dwelling in humans (or animals for that matter), and/or humans being divine, is against Islam.

She believes in the trinity, though as an idea about God.
She believes that Jesus (peace be upon him) is the son of God and we're all the children of God.
She believes Jesus (p) and us all are divine, with God dwelling in us.
She believes Jesus (p) was crucified, and was resurrected and that he is her saviour.

She acknowledges those beliefs conflict with the teachings of the Quran. "That's something I'll find a challenge the rest of my life," she said.

None of these are compatible with Islam. She can perform Islamic rituals as many times a day as she likes, if the foundational beliefs about God (aqeedah) aren't correct, the rest doesn't have any base to stand on.

May Allah guide her to Islam, ameen.

Peace.

[glo]

Instead of trying to drive people to the lowest common denominator, why cant it be accepted that people have different faiths/worldviews that are often at odds with one another and learn to live with difference.

I found this video interesting, because I think looking for a common denominator is something I do instinctively with people who do not share my faith.

I don't think it means that I have to abandon or compromise my own beliefs, but it means that I make myself aware of the things we share in common. And there are always things we share in common.

For example, with my Muslim friends I share a belief in one God.
With my pagan friends I share an appreciation of the beauty of nature and the seasons.
With my atheist friends I share many ideas about human rights etc.

Despite all our differences we share our humanity, and with that comes human needs and feelings and responses. We get lonely and hungry and scared. We want to feel safe and respected.
We are all brothers and sisters in humanity and that's good enough for me.

[Pygoscelis]

Maybe she is Schizophrenic

[Ahmad H]

Perhaps what she thinks is more in line with the following verse:

3:64 Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

I hope there is no shirk in her. I also hope Allah will still accept her Islam:

3:85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

May Allah guide her to the straight path. Ameen.

[ardianto]

Maybe she is Schizophrenic

If she's schizophrenic, she would declare herself as God.

[ardianto]

I am a member in a Christian Muslim Forum and there I have met other people who claim that they can reconcile Christianity and Islam completely. Those people are in the minority and probably frowned upon by us 'mainstreamers' - but they clearly do exist.

Reconcile Christianity and Islam completely is a mission impossible because both parties have extremists that prefer war than dialog.

So, I prefer to do something that more realistic, invite people around me to understand difference and respect it. Yeah, due to my limit of ability, maybe I can invite only two or three people. But, if there are millions people like me?

:)

[Vito]

Salaam

Just to add.

Instead of trying to drive people to the lowest common denominator, why cant it be accepted that people have different faiths/worldviews that are often at odds with one another and learn to live with difference.

This is a relevant.

I'm not familiar with the lowest common denominator statement so forgive me if I misunderstood. I think the issue here is much deeper than simply saying we need to live with our differences. The problem, imo, is that she's taking two religions and trying to combine the two and claim that she is 100% both. On top of that, there are leaders from Islamic centers (according to the article) who are making it worse by supporting her claim to be both and saying there is nothing Islamically wrong with that. I think that sends the wrong message from an Islamic perspective especially to those who are interested in the religion. For those who want to become Muslim or thought about it, what do you think would happen when they read her story and read about the Muslims who support her? That misrepresents the very basic principles of what Islam is all about. Then when these new Muslims see this, they will more than likely change Islam to THEIR liking. When does it stop? Isn't that what happened with the other religions to begin with and part of the reason why we believe the Quran was sent down as the last and final message along with Prophet Muhammad pbuh? Isn't that also part of the major signs of the approaching hour when Islam's basic message will be forgotten?

I'm a very tolerant person but I don't think we should support this kind of practice and someone needs to educate her.

[MustafaMc]

On a personal note, there is much I have learned from Islam - the importance of submitting to God's will and the beauty of prescribed regular prayer are two that spring to mind immediately.

I am sure that you have learned much, but I think you would agree that on a most fundamental level there is still a big difference regarding our beliefs about God and Jesus. In the end we will each remain true to what we believe is the truth until God guides us to a new understanding - if it comes in this lifetime. As long as the other doesn't coerce their views on the other, I think live-and-let-live is the best policy.

But my Christian beliefs about Jesus have always taken priority, and those are the filters I understand Islam through.

I can relate in a sense as that is how I treat the Bible and Christianity in general - through the lens of Islam.

[Darth Ultor]

You can't be both. Christians by definition accept Jesus as the son of God and as God in the flesh. Muslims see Jesus as merely a prophet and that God is One, not three in one, and He has no children in the literal sense. So you're either Muslim or Christian. You can't be both.

[Hulk]

You can't be both. Christians by definition accept Jesus as the son of God and as God in the flesh. Muslims see Jesus as merely a prophet and that God is One, not three in one, and He has no children in the literal sense. So you're either Muslim or Christian. You can't be both.

What about Unitarians though are they considered christians? When you said it like that I was reminded of them.

[MustafaMc]

I get the feeling that Redding sees Islam differently than I do. The thing that jumps out to me in both what she and glo have written is 1) submitting to the will of God and 2) finding spiritual uplifting through Islamic rituals of prayer and fasting. {She says she felt an inexplicable call to become Muslim, and to surrender to God — the meaning of the word "Islam." ... She found the discipline of praying five times a day — one of the five pillars of Islam that all Muslims are supposed to follow — gave her the deep sense of connection with God that she yearned for.}

When she says, "At the most basic level, I understand the two religions to be compatible. That's all I need.", I gather that she is talking about believing in God and living a charitable, moral life. I, too, see a lot of good similarities, but our basic beliefs about the nature of God and Jesus are quite different. She seems to want to pick and chose which tenets of the two faiths to accept based on her own intellect and personal insight. Could this statement shed light on her perspective, {Afterward, she learned from local Muslim leaders, including those in Islam's largest denomination — Sunni — and those in the Sufi mystical tradition of Islam.}?

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

When I have followed this discussion, I have thought here is some thing what bothers me and I think it is just this one:

She seems to want to pick and chose which tenets of the two faiths to accept based on her own intellect and personal insight..}?

It is sometimes common to the westerners, when they are looking for some new religion or just way of life, that they pick one thing from here and other from there - choosing them which already fit to they own way of think, to they values. People are something like in the supermarket. All my respect to those westerners whose have changed they religion (as I am one of them), but many like to take just some parts, not the whole packet of values of some religion.

Sorry if I can´t explain my ideas perfectly by my not-so-perfect English.

[Pygoscelis]

It is sometimes common to the westerners, when they are looking for some new religion or just way of life, that they pick one thing from here and other from there - choosing them which already fit to they own way of think, to they values. People are something like in the supermarket. All my respect to those westerners whose have changed they religion (as I am one of them), but many like to take just some parts, not the whole packet of values of some religion.

I applaud people who think for themselves and come up with their own life views and philosophies, but not so much if they do that and then claim to be what they are not, just so they can feel like "part of the team", or in this case multiple teams. I can't tell if she is earnestly seeking and finding her own way, or if she is just trying to tread the line between two competing ideologies so she can endear herself to adherents of both.

[جوري]

o she can endear herself to adherents of both.

People who are two faced usually end up endearing themselves to neither!

best,

[Woodrow]

Just a thought.

In this world there are birds and there are mice.

A bat is neither bird nor mouse although it has some attributes of both.

There is no such thing as an animal that is 100% Bird and 100% mouse.

[Insaanah]

Those people are in the minority and probably frowned upon by us 'mainstreamers' - but they clearly do exist.

I admire and appreciate the efforts they bring to communication and joint working between the two faiths

They don't really bring communication and joint working. That has been happening between Muslims and Christians following their respective religions for ages. What this brings, is confusion, a violation (and mockery, even if unwittingly) of tenets of faith, yet under the guise of following the faith and bringing reconciliation between the two. This doesn't do favours to anyone, and certainly not to the one doing it.

This results in communication and joint working neither from the perspective of one faith, nor from the other, but from some mixed up invention that neither faith acknowledges (and rightfully so), and is more of a hindrance than a help.

She herself acknowledges, that as a "Muslim", her fundamental beliefs go against the Qur'an.

All this is, is a "feel good" mixture of the two, "hey, I can believe in both and still be true to both", and picking and choosing the parts one personally likes from each and putting one's own spin on those parts (as mentioned above). It reminds me of the Qur'anic verses on those who believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part, and those who follow their own desires yet rejoice in what they are doing.

Communication and joint working between the two faiths doesn't need this, and will not benefit from this. True communication is not by mixing or diluting ones faith, or adopting contradictory beliefs, or a bit of this and a bit of that in order to do so. I hope the Muslims she prays with will not be influenced by her beliefs. That said, I hope she will become a Muslim one day, ameen.

[islamica]

Last time a person claimed to be both Muslim and believer of his original faith (hinduism), the religion of sikhism was born.

"I don't care," she says. "They can't take away my baptism." And as she understands it, once she's made her profession of faith to become a Muslim, no one can say she isn't that, either.

Sure they can, the Shahada comes with terms and conditions. If those are not being met, then you negate your own shahada and end up outside the fold of Islam. Believing that Jesus a.s. died is one of them, especially since Allah says otherwise in the Quran.

oh and there is this,

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him" 03:85

[ardianto]

I'm a very tolerant person but I don't think we should support this kind of practice and someone needs to educate her.

What Redding has done is not based on religious tolerance, but based on pluralism.

Religious tolerance is an attitude that admit the difference between two or more faiths, and respect it. Pluralism is an attitude that search the common ground and compatibility between two or more faiths.

The danger of pluralism is, this will make someone mix two or more faiths become one. Something that violate the concept of faith itself.

This is why I oppose pluralism, and I choose to support religious tolerance.

[Pygoscelis]

Just a thought.

In this world there are birds and there are mice.

A bat is neither bird nor mouse although it has some attributes of both.

There is no such thing as an animal that is 100% Bird and 100% mouse.

I agree with your point.

And I feel compelled to say this: Bats are not mice or rats. Bats are not rodents. Bats are actually genetically closer to whales than they are to rodents. Bats are not blind either. They have excellent eyesight.

These often repeated myths are a personal pet peeve of mine :)

Sorry for the derail. Now back to our regular scheduled program...

[glo]

Sure they can, the Shahada comes with terms and conditions.

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it. Or is there?

I know that in some Christian churches people receive some kind of training or teaching before they commit themselves to the Christian faith (either through adult baptism or 'confirmation of ones faith')

[Vito]

What Redding has done is not based on religious tolerance, but based on pluralism.

Religious tolerance is an attitude that admit the difference between two or more faiths, and respect it. Pluralism is an attitude that search the common ground and compatibility between two or more faiths.

The danger of pluralism is, this will make someone mix two or more faiths become one. Something that violate the concept of faith itself.

This is why I oppose pluralism, and I choose to support religious tolerance.

Ok I wasn't familiar with the term Pluralism. Thanks for clearing that up. And I agree with what you've just said as well. Sorry if that is what you meant Junon :peace:

[GodIsAll]

I agree with your point.

And I feel compelled to say this: Bats are not mice or rats. Bats are not rodents. Bats are actually genetically closer to whales than they are to rodents. Bats are not blind either. They have excellent eyesight.

These often repeated myths are a personal pet peeve of mine :)

Sorry for the derail. Now back to our regular scheduled program...

Oh, those unique chiropterans!

[sister herb]

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it. Or is there?

In many times, no. I remember when I said shahada, I went to the nearest mosque, asked two witnesses and they only checked if I knew what (words) I have to say, nothing else. As you may know, someones say it alone.

Is shahada valid or not if you don´t really understand what you are doing - as I have understood it - is matter what is totally between you and Allah only.

[MustafaMc]

I guess anybody can say Shahada and there is no way of checking whether the person making the declaration has a full understanding of it.

My personal experience was that reverts to Islam probably do not fully grasp the entirety of Islam and all of the aspects of their life that will be touched by their new faith. The main thing is belief in One God without any partners and that Muhammad (saaws) was the last messenger and prophet of God. I believe that after this declaration of faith, the transition to becoming a Muslim is not easy. I also see it more as a lifelong struggle to learn, incorporate more sunnah into our lives and to purify our hearts.

[MustafaMc]

If you accept Christianity and feel it is true you must reject Muhammad, if you accept Muhammad then you must reject Christianity.

I find it interesting that in speaking of Islam you mentioned accepting or rejecting Muhammad (saaws), but with regards to Christianity, you did not mention Jesus. When I became a Muslim, my family were upset with me for rejecting Jesus as my personal savior. If I were to apply the reverse of what you wrote, it becomes, "If you accept Islam and feel it is true you must reject Jesus, if you accept Jesus then you must reject Islam." which is not a true statement because all Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet and messenger of God. However, the statement, "If you accept Islam and feel it is true you must reject Jesus (as God Incarnate), if you accept Jesus (as God Incarnate) then you must reject Islam." then it becomes a true statement.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I applaud people who think for themselves and come up with their own life views and philosophies, but not so much if they do that and then claim to be what they are not, just so they can feel like "part of the team", or in this case multiple teams. I can't tell if she is earnestly seeking and finding her own way, or if she is just trying to tread the line between two competing ideologies so she can endear herself to adherents of both.

i think sister harb was saying that many people fail to accept islam in its entirety and that is percieved as a great short coming from then islamic perspective as we are not allowed to pick and choose. it is widely known and accepted that if a person dislikes a single thing our beloved prophet saws liked then he has left the fold of islam. It is different if a person is weak and admits that weakness as a human failing but a stubborn rejection is something different altogether.

[sister herb]

^^ Thanks about correction. I maybe expressed my idea unclear.

[Insaanah]

Edit....

[Born_Believer]

as most people have already said and said very well, you can't claim to be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time. I won't go into the details but the fundamental differences are enough to stop you from doing so. The most crucial tenant of Christian faith is belief in Christ's divinity and his sacrifice on the cross. Islam totally rejects this idea...how then can when claim to believe in one and still be the other?

I have met many people who come from culturally diverse backgrounds (I have the pleasure of living in a city as great as London) who have a Christian mother and Muslim father or vice versa. The children call themselves half and half but that too is impossible. you must be one or the other. It's like an atheist saying that they believe in God on the weekends.

[GuestFellow]

You must be so confused to think you can be both Muslim and Christian LOLOLOL!

[arcangel]

Saheeh International

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
(Tafseer ibn Kathir)

I beleive it has been established that no one can be of both faiths. I second that as it is a theological impossibility. So the question is which one should we be. I am new here so I thought I would let someone else begin the discussion.

[جوري]

So the question is which one should we be

The religion with :Allah::swt: is Islam!
There's only one straight & narrow, everything else is the path of the devil & many are his paths.
The discussion isn't new try our comparative religion section.

best,

[arcangel]

The religion with :Allah::swt: is Islam!
There's only one straight & narrow, everything else is the path of the devil & many are his paths.
The discussion isn't new try our comparative religion section.

best,

I thought I was in the comparative section.

[جوري]

I thought I was in the comparative section.

Indeed you are, browse through our old discussions, resurrect them if you've something to add!

best,

[bangaliteen]

Any thoughts on this?



http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...edding17m.html

You cant be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, Christianity beliefs goes against Islam so you will not be a Muslim if you believe them like Christians believe that Jesus is God and the son of God, if you believe that then you are not Muslim, you can only be Muslim and that's it, you cannot combine other religions. You have to follow your faith wholeheartedly and believe in it, you cannot put 2 faiths together.

[KAding]

I notice most of the arguments in this thread on why one cannot be both Christian and Muslim at the same time are all fairly theological in nature (concept of God, trinity, etc..).

But if we for a moment ignore the theoretical aspect of what God is or isn't: on a more practical and day-to-day level, isn't it possible to be both? Can one not live through the day (incl. with prayer, the daily rituals and a certain composure) and not really be in conflict with either religion as far as behaviour is concerned? Now, I understand it is probably easier for a Muslim to be in line with Christianity than the other way around, as Christians are simply less focused on rules, but still.

More in general, aren't the major differences (and dividing walls) between Christianity and Islam largely theoretical, rather than practical? Isn't what is most important in the end how we behave ourselves and how we treat others?

[جوري]

Isn't what is most important in the end how we behave ourselves and how we treat others?

It isn't about theory it is about theology. Christians or people who adhere to some form of theology outside of the true path of Islamic monotheism are probably worse off than atheists. They stray while believing they're doing good which is unfortunate indeed.

Say, "Shall we inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?

18:104 to top

[They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work."

18:105 to top

Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.