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truthseeker63
05-21-2013, 06:07 PM
Christianity declining 50pc faster than thought – as one in 10 under-25s is a Muslim

Christianity could be facing a catastrophic collapse in Britain according to official figures suggesting it is declining 50 per cent faster than previously thought.

Christianity in the UK is declining 50pc faster than thought. Photo: ALAMY



By John Bingham, Religious Affairs Editor
7:08PM BST 16 May 2013


A new analysis of the 2011 census shows that a decade of mass immigration helped mask the scale of decline in Christian affiliation among the British-born population – while driving a dramatic increase in Islam, particularly among the young.


It suggests that only a minority of people will describe themselves as Christians within the next decade, for first time.

Meanwhile almost one in 10 under 25s in Britain is now a Muslim.


The proportion of young people who describe themselves as even nominal Christians has dropped below half for the first time.

Initial results from the 2011 census published last year showed that the total number of people in England and Wales who described themselves as Christian fell by 4.1 million – a decline of 10 per cent.


But new analysis from the Office for National Statistics shows that that figure was bolstered by 1.2 million foreign-born Christians, including Polish Catholics and evangelicals from countries such as Nigeria.
They disclosed that there were in fact 5.3 million fewer British-born people describing themselves as Christians, a decline of 15 per cent in just a decade.

At the same time the number of Muslims in England and Wales surged by 75 per cent – boosted by almost 600,000 more foreign born followers of the Islamic faith.
While almost half of British Muslims are under the age of 25, almost a quarter of Christians are over 65.
The average age of a British Muslim is just 25, not far off half that of a British Christian.

Younger people also drove a shift away from religion altogether, with 6.4 million more people describing themselves as having no faith than 10 years earlier.
Secular campaigners said the new figures showed that Christianity had now dropped below “critical mass” making the case for disestablishing the Church of England stronger.
But the Church insisted that while there had been a significant drop in “nominal” Christians, the core of the Church remained firm.

Prof David Coleman, Professor of demography at Oxford University, said: “This is a very substantial change – it is difficult to see whether any other change in the census could have been remotely as big.
“But I wonder how far it reflects an overarching change in society where it is more acceptable more normal to say that you are not religious or are not Christian.”

Dr Fraser Watts, a Cambridge theologian, said it was “entirely possible” the people identifying themselves as Christians could become a minority within the next decade on the basis of the figures.
“It is still pretty striking and it is a worrying trend and confirms what anyone can observe - that in many churches the majority of the congregation are over 60,” he said.

Keith Porteous Wood, executive director of the National Secular Society, said the long-term reduction of Christianity, particularly among young people, was now “unstoppable”.
“In another 20 years there are going to be more active Muslims than there are churchgoers,” he said.

“The time has now come that institutional Christianity is no longer justified, the number has dropped below critical mass for which there is no longer any justification for the established Church, for example, or the monarch going through a religious ceremony at coronation.

“The expressions of optimism by the church are just completely misplaced.”

But a spokesman for the Church of England said: “These figures highlight the diversity of Christianity in this country today, something which has been increasing for decades and shows the relevance of Christianity to people from all backgrounds.

“These figures once again confirm that this remains a faithful nation and that the fall in the numbers identifying themselves as Christians is a challenge but – as you can see from the stability of Church of England attendance figures – the committed worshipping centre of the church remains firm.

“The challenge to the Church is to reconnect with the nominal.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-a-Muslim.html
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truthseeker63
05-22-2013, 12:00 AM
Please Reply.
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جوري
05-22-2013, 02:40 PM
I think Christians should go after all their stray atheists see if they can get them back to be good soldiers for the church!
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Amadeus85
05-22-2013, 08:14 PM
If muslim countries had the same amount of Jews in power as UK has, they would have alike cultural/religious/social problems.

Hello to all old forum members ;).
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KAding
05-22-2013, 10:20 PM
Doesn't surprise me in the least. The UK seems a very secularized society. Eventually Christians can take the place next to Jews, Muslims and Buddhist as a minority religion, although it will still be very much more culturall entrenched of course.

It will be interesting to see whether this 'dechristinization' is permanent or whether it will bounce back in a wave-like pattern.
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KAding
05-22-2013, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
If muslim countries had the same amount of Jews in power as UK has, they would have alike cultural/religious/social problems.

Hello to all old forum members ;).
Who are the influential 'Jews in power' in the UK then? Are there any in the cabinet?
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Amadeus85
05-23-2013, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Who are the influential 'Jews in power' in the UK then? Are there any in the cabinet?
It's not really about the presence in cabinet but about owning "international" media, about influence in culture, pop culture, education, universities, NGO's, think tanks.
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the_stranger
05-23-2013, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
It's not really about the presence in cabinet but about owning "international" media, about influence in culture, pop culture, education, universities, NGO's, think tanks.
Don't pay attention to this clown. Pathetic neo-nazis are prone to paranoid delusions.
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Amadeus85
05-23-2013, 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by the_stranger
Don't pay attention to this clown. Pathetic neo-nazis are prone to paranoid delusions.
I'm not neo nazi but a national radical (national revolutionair, third positionist), nor I have ever worked as a clown.
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Jedi_Mindset
05-24-2013, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by the_stranger
Don't pay attention to this clown. Pathetic neo-nazis are prone to paranoid delusions.
With a little research you know that he is right, i dont defend neo-nazis, but there is enough evidence to prove the zionists and jews hold a high position in hollywood, NGO's, and government cabinets. Mainly in the US. Research before you jump on the conclusions that he is spewing out paranoid delusions.

Sharon to Peres: "We Control America"

http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html

================================================== ========

Anyway, Christianity is declining because of the secularization of society, also perhaps because christian families have less children. Muslim families have alot of children and to the growing amount of reverts it shows that Islam is on the rise in Europe, hence the news report that Islam will be the dominant religion in the UK over 10 years.

Ofcourse there are other factors at play why christianity is declining but secularization is the main factor i think.
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Abdul Rafay
06-01-2013, 02:24 AM
I wonder how many Christians will be left by the time Isa [AS] comes back
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GuestFellow
06-01-2013, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by the_stranger
Don't pay attention to this clown. Pathetic neo-nazis are prone to paranoid delusions.
Don't be so rude!

Amadeus85 is a very nice member.
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GuestFellow
06-01-2013, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
With a little research you know that he is right, i dont defend neo-nazis, but there is enough evidence to prove the zionists and jews hold a high position in hollywood, NGO's, and government cabinets. Mainly in the US. Research before you jump on the conclusions that he is spewing out paranoid delusions.

Sharon to Peres: "We Control America"

http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html

================================================== ========

Anyway, Christianity is declining because of the secularization of society, also perhaps because christian families have less children. Muslim families have alot of children and to the growing amount of reverts it shows that Islam is on the rise in Europe, hence the news report that Islam will be the dominant religion in the UK over 10 years.

Ofcourse there are other factors at play why christianity is declining but secularization is the main factor i think.
Sharon is giving myself too much credit. :/

Anyway Christianity is declining I think is due to significant emphasis on individual freedoms, wealth and secularist lifestyle.
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Junon
08-29-2013, 12:09 AM
Salaam

Heres one reason why Christianity is declining in the UK.

‘On the edge of a precipice’ – Welby’s doomsday warning to feuding Church



The Archbishop of Canterbury has issued a dramatic warning that the worldwide Anglican church is tottering on the brink of complete disintegration amid bitter disputes between liberals and traditionalists.


In his most stark comments yet about divisions over issues such as homosexuality, the Most Rev Justin Welby said the Church is coming perilously close to plunging into a “ravine of intolerance”. He even drew parallels between the crisis afflicting the 77 million-strong network of Anglican churches and the atmosphere during the English Civil War.

And he likened the collective behaviour of the church to a “drunk man” staggering ever closer to edge of a cliff.

Yet he added that many of the issues over which different factions in the church are fighting are simply “incomprehensible” to people outside it.

His comments came during a recent sermon in Monterrey, Mexico, which he was visited as part of a plan to travel to every province of the Anglican Communion at the start of his ministry.

The Archbishop, who took office in February, inherited a church deeply divided at home and abroad. At home he has been attempting to resolve the seemingly intractable disagreements within the Church of England over women bishops. But the worldwide Anglican Church has also been split between liberal provinces, particularly in North America, and more conservative regions for several years after the US church consecrated its first openly gay bishop. The Archbishop said the Church had to steer a course between, on one hand, compromising so much that it abandoned its “core beliefs” and, on the other, becoming so intolerant that it fractured completely. Addressing a service in the Hotel Quinta Real in Monterrey, he spoke about the life of Jeremy Taylor, the former chaplain to Charles I who was imprisoned under Cromwell.

“I sometimes worry that as Anglicans we are drifting back in that direction,” he said.

“Not consciously, of course, but in an unconscious way that is more dangerous.

“Like a drunk man walking near the edge of a cliff, we trip and totter and slip and wander, ever nearer to the edge of the precipice.

“It is a dangerous place, a narrow path we walk as Anglicans at present.

“On one side is the steep fall into an absence of any core beliefs, a chasm where we lose touch with God, and thus we rely only on ourselves and our own message.

“On the other side there is a vast fall into a ravine of intolerance and cruel exclusion.

“It is for those who claim all truth, and exclude any who question.”

He went on: “When we fall into this place, we lose touch with human beings and create a small church, or rather many small churches – divided, ineffective in serving the poor, the hungry and the suffering, incapable of living with each other, and incomprehensible to those outside the church.

“We struggle with each other at a time when the Anglican Communion's great vocation as bridge builder is more needed than ever.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10257459/On-the-edge-of-a-precipice-Welbys-doomsday-warning-to-feuding-Church.html
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Pygoscelis
08-29-2013, 04:01 AM
The homosexual issue is and will continue to be a tough one for western christian churches. Society as a whole is less homophobic and discriminatory and more and more embraces equality. The church needs to either change or lose dominance. It won't stop with homosexuals either. Women as clergy has become a bigger and bigger issue and will continue to fracture churches. Atheists, Muslims (and other religions) will also have an easier time of things with liberalizing Christians, especially as their numbers increase, so long as they don't lean towards inequality themselves.
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AgeofReality
08-30-2013, 08:54 PM
Christianity is declining in Britain for many of the same reasons why is is declining in much of the rest of the West. People in the West have exposed to the modern world long enough now that they losing the need for religion. Eventually the same will happen with Islam, though considering the extremely underdeveloped nature of most Muslim states this is probably a long ways off.
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Iceee
08-31-2013, 12:36 AM
Salaam / Peace Be Upon You.

Originally Posted by AgeofReality
Christianity is declining in Britain for many of the same reasons why is is declining in much of the rest of the West. People in the West have exposed to the modern world long enough now that they losing the need for religion. Eventually the same will happen with Islam, though considering the extremely underdeveloped nature of most Muslim states this is probably a long ways off.
Long ways off? You're making assumptions based on what you want to believe.

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Junon
11-19-2013, 01:48 PM
Salaam

Another update on the decline of Christianity in the UK.

Christianity at risk of dying out in a generation, warns Lord Carey

Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, warns Christianity "a generation away from extinction" in Britain




Christianity is just a “generation away from extinction” in Britain unless churches make a dramatic breakthrough in attracting young people back to the faith, the former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has warned. Clergy are now gripped by a “feeling of defeat”, congregations are worn down by “heaviness” while the public simply greets both with “rolled eyes and a yawn of boredom”, he said.

His comments at a Christian conference came as a stark report laid before the Church of England’s General Synod warned that its position as a “national institution” will be in doubt if numbers in the pews drop much further.

The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, also underlined the scale of the crisis telling members of the Synod they must “evangelise or fossilise”.

In an impassioned plea for Church to adopt a new missionary stance, he told them that their constant internal debates were like no more than “rearranging furniture when the house is on fire”.

He called for an ambitious campaign aimed at the “re-evangelisation of England”, on a par with the ministry of the northern saints such as Cuthbert, Hilda and Aidan who spread Christianity in Anglo-Saxon times. The Synod responded by voting to set up a committee.

Lord Carey's warning came as he addressed the Shropshire Light Conference at Holy Trinity Church in Shrewsbury at the weekend discussing how the church could be “re-imagined”.

The former Archbishop said while the church is doing much important work, it faces an existential challenge.

“In many parts of Britain churches are struggling, some priests are diffident and lack confidence; a feeling of defeat is around.

“The burden seems heavy and joy in ministry has been replaced by a feeling of heaviness.”

He said that the reaction from the public was not so much hostile as dismissive.

“The viewpoint could be expressed in a variety of non -verbal ways: the shrug of indifference, the rolled eyes of embarrassment, the yawn of boredom.

“So many people do not see the average church as a place where great things happen. “To sit in a cold church looking at the back of other peoples’ heads is surely not the best place to meet exciting people and to hear prophetic words.”

He added: “It is still the case that people are essentially looking for spiritual fulfilment.

"One of the most worrying, most urgent groups we need to invest in is young people.

"We ought to be ashamed of ourselves.”

He warned against relying on “more gimmicks” to revive the Church’s fortunes adding: “The most urgent and worrying gap is in young peoples work.

“So many churches have no ministry to young people and that means they have no interest in the future.

“As I have repeated many times in the past we are one generation away from extinction.

“We have to give cogent reasons to young people why the Christian faith is relevant to them.”

His comments came as a report was laid before the Church England’s General Synod warning that plunging congregations now threaten its ability to “sustain a nationwide presence”.

Typical Sunday congregations have almost halved since 1970 to just 807,000 in the most recent figures.

Archbishop Sentamu told the Synod: “Compared with evangelism everything else is like rearranging furniture when the house is on fire.

“Tragically too often that is what we are doing – reorganising the structures, arguing over words and phrases, while the people of England are left floundering amid meaningless anxiety and despair.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10458380/Christianity-at-risk-of-dying-out-in-a-generation-warns-Lord-Carey.html
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جوري
11-27-2013, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by AgeofReality
People in the West have exposed to the modern world long enough now that they losing the need for religion
They've done no such thing, they simply turn to alternative avenues which they deem make better sense!


Originally Posted by AgeofReality
Eventually the same will happen with Islam
Actually Islam is on the rise all over, and the places you deem 'underdeveloped' makeup only 20% of its population.
furthermore, according to 'western studies' what you consider 'underdeveloped' is the most scientifically and economically advanced or rising:

http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/10/four-ma...al-prosperity/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.UpY8b-I9VTs

as an example..

try to do some research before you write :)
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theplains
11-27-2013, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam

Christianity is just a “generation away from extinction” in Britain unless churches make a dramatic breakthrough in attracting young people back to the faith, the former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has warned.
I think a lot of churches across Europe have died because they have moved away
from biblical teachings. But if Islam rises to replace them, I hope we don't see more
Sunni-Shia wars like we do in the Middle East.

Peace,
Jim
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Pygoscelis
11-29-2013, 06:24 PM
Christianity is still very strong in the USA. I think the main reason why it is so strong in the US and so weak in England is because England has an official church of England. England is officially christian. This makes for less activists and less pushing of Christianity, since it has simply been assumed to be dominant. In the US the situation is different. We all know the US is dominated by Christian agenda, but many Christians themselves will tell you Christianity is actually persecuted there.

To keep a religion alive you need to motivate and inspire the people, either with fear and bogeymen (ie, in the USA) or with inspiration and strong indoctrination. Islam isn't lacking in either so I don't see it falling by the wayside any time soon.
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Ali_008
11-29-2013, 08:32 PM
^^^ Not to sound like a hater, but I really wonder what kind of Christian work goes around in the US. I have seen endless number of jokes on Christian, Jehovah's witnesses, and God, and the American crowd doesn't seem to tire of mocking religion. Of course, their mockeries of God mostly talk about a supernatural man controlling the universe [Christian version of Jesus (PBUH)], I've also witnessed this distaste taking grave turns, and people actually detesting religion altogether because of what they have heard from Christian preachers.
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Junon
11-30-2013, 10:57 AM
Salaam

This is an interesting comment.

More laws are needed as religion declines, top judge says

One of Britain's most senior judges said the rapid rise in the number of laws in recent years had been necessary as other modes of social control such as religion and old fashioned morality declined


One of Britain’s most senior judges has blamed a decline in religion and traditional moral values for the growing number of laws needed to maintain order. Lord Sumption, a Supreme Court Justice, said laws now reached into areas of life once left untouched by such regulation with 3000 new criminal or administrative offences added to the statute book during Tony Blair’s premiership between 1997 and 2007.

But he claimed the “expansion of the empire of law” had been necessary to fill the gap left by declining religious and moral codes which once guided people’s behaviour.

He said: “It is a response to a real problem.

“At its most fundamental level, the problem is that the technical and intellectual capacities of mankind have grown faster than its moral sensibilities or its co-operative instincts.

“At the same time other restraints on the autonomy and self-interest of men, such as religion and social convention, have lost much of their former force, at any rate in the west.

“The role of social and religious sentiment, which was once so critical in the life of our societies, has been largely taken over by law.”

In a lecture entitled ‘The Limits of Law’ given in Kuala Lumpur, the top judge discussed the correct role for judges and courts in society and looked at what tasks were better overseen by other agents of social control. He accused the European Court of Human Rights of extending its influence far beyond its intended purpose as a safeguard against totalitarianism and reaching into areas of domestic government policy. After praising the European Convention of Human Rights for its “wholly admirable” text, he said: “Nothing that I have to say this evening is intended to belittle any of these truly fundamental rights.

“But the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg stands for more than these.

“It has become the international flag-bearer for judge-made fundamental law extending well beyond the text which it is charged with applying. It has over many years declared itself entitled to treat the Convention as what it calls a “living instrument.”

He added: “This approach has transformed the Convention from the safeguard against despotism which was intended by its draftsmen, into a template for many aspects of the domestic legal order.”

Lord Sumption argued that in a healthy democracy people’s expectations of the law were greater as they demanded protection in every aspect of their lives. This created a need for legislation in everything from violent crime to working hours but also meant a “more intrusive” legal system, he warned. He claimed that acts which a century ago would have been dismissed as “casual misfortunes” or “governed only by principles of courtesy” are now “actionable torts”.

Lord Sumption said: “We need to think seriously about the proper role of judges in the ordering of society.

“We live in an age of unbounded confidence in the value and efficacy of law as an engine of social and moral improvement.

“The spread of Parliamentary democracy across most of the world, has invariably been followed by rising public expectations of the state, of which the courts are a part.

“The state has become the provider of basic standards of public amenity, the guarantor of minimum levels of security and, increasingly, the regulator of economic activity and the protector against misfortune of every kind.

“The public expects nothing less.

“Yet protection at this level calls for a general scheme of rights and a more intrusive role for law.

“In Europe, we regulate almost every aspect of employment practice and commercial life, at any rate so far as it impinges upon consumers.

“We design codes of safety regulation designed to eliminate risk in all of the infinite variety of human activities. New criminal offences appear like mushrooms after every rainstorm.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10481985/More-laws-are-needed-as-religion-declines-top-judge-says.html
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Junon
12-04-2013, 07:06 PM
Salaam

I thought this was an interesting comment on Christianity in British society. Interesting to note as secular ideologues become more influential they more they try to restrict peoples ability to practice their faith. In this instance trying to ban ban faith schools.

An Evening with Professor Self

By Peter Hitchens


Here are a few all too brief words about one of the two debates I attended last week – a discussion about the status of Christianity in England, with Will Self, at t Brunel University in Uxbridge. ( Later, I hope to say a few words about a debate I had in Manchester, also about religion, and to say a few things about P.D.James, and her book ‘An Unsuitable Job for a Woman’, and about the recent film ‘Philomena’, and the book on which it is loosely based ‘The Lost Child of Philomena Lee’ by Martin Sixsmith. I have one last debate to do before the end of the year, after which I shall probably be taking on fewer speaking engagements for a while. Enjoyable as they are, they eat time and energy, and are easier to accept, breezily, in June than to fulfil months later when your diary has filled up with other things).

I think the people who attended our Brunel debate largely enjoyed it, as it was a pretty thoughtful exchange between two articulate people. Mr Self (or Professor Self as he is up there) was particularly exercised about ‘Faith Schools’, as modern radicals always are, seeing them as in some way morally wrong. I’m fairly sure that this will be the main front on which the secularists will advance in coming years. The ordinary state schools have over the past 70 years marginalised or removed most traces of Christianity *as a faith* rather than as one of a number of bizarre anthropological curiosities.

This is in fact a breach of an agreement made at the time, but it goes completely unpunished, even though it quite often involves direct defiance of statute law. I suspect that many of the church schools have reduced it to the very minimum, as they come under increasing pressure to dilute their religious nature. That pressure, dressed up as a war on privilege, and combined with a supposed concern to prevent ‘indoctrination’ of the young in ancient follies, will now increase. The Church of England will probably not fight it that hard. I suspect it sees its formal bureaucratic grip on a large minority of schools as being more important than the actual religious upbringing of the young. Some of its prelates have made remarkably weak and confused statements on this lately. The Roman Catholics may possibly be tougher. But in the end, a confrontation is certain between Christian teaching on such things as marriage, and the equality and diversity agenda promoted by the National Curriculum through personal Health and Social Education.

I said that I was quite happy to see state-backed schools of any faith, if there was a demand for them. Professor Self claimed to doubt my sincerity on Islamic schools, which he is welcome to do, but I assure him that it is genuine. I would very much favour the setting up of actively atheist schools as well, if there is sufficient demand. I would very much like to see this strange, shy, reticent yet aggressive creed taught as a belief and celebrated with Godless singing at morning assembly. We would see how they got on. Perhaps parents from all over the neighbourhood would clamour for places, and the egalitarians would complain that Atheist schools had too low a proportion of pupils receiving free school meals.

An experiment on these lines would test the other question I couldn’t ( as I recall) get Professor Self to answer – namely – what is the source of authority in schools, or anywhere else, once you have abandoned adherence to Christianity? In schools this is particularly important, as the question arises of where the individual teacher’s authority comes from, how the subjects for instruction are selected and how they are approached, as well as the purpose for which education is intended. Most people never think about this, and I suspect this is one of the reasons why secularised British state schools are often so bad, whereas their private rivals, which (so far) retain quite a lot of the character given to them by their largely religious founders, are not.

Despite this, Professor Self alleged that I was ‘intolerant’. I repeatedly challenged him to justify this accusation, but it’s my recollection that he never did. I also teased him for his position of ‘radical agnosticism’, saying that it was an oxymoron much like ‘razor-sharp sponge’, which did not go down well. I would have liked to stay behind and hammer it out at the bar, but alas, I had a pressing engagement elsewhere – as I do now.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
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