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~Zaria~
05-26-2013, 02:12 PM
:salam:


A Prophetic-Inspired 5 Point Plan for British Muslims after the Woolwich Attack


By Nabil Ahmed


Just when we thought Muslims had passed the days of negative, terrorism-attached attention, it feels as though they never left. Repeated cases of child grooming by “Muslims”, then the Boston Marathon bombing, and now the attempted beheading of a British soldier on the outskirts of London, means that all sorts of heinous attacks are associated with Islam.

The responses of many Muslim community leaders have been admirable – and it must be noted that British Muslims have been receiving some positive support from various sections of society. But we seem to cross this hurdle every few years – and it is not going away. Now we have racist groups emerging, underpinned by a hatred for Islam.

Reactionary

This is why in my view the perception of Muslims remains negative:

Muslims tend to be obsessive in analysis of how bad the media is, on why people did what they did, and so on. Muslims seem to be active on Twitter and Facebook – in condemnation for example – which is noted. But how useful is any of this? By the time we respond the damage is already done and all we're doing is just nursing a wound.

Through good intentions we think we are doing good, but in reality, we are following 'what we think is right' rather than taking an approach that is rooted in the Qur'an and the way of the Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him).

It is especially important in this day and age of distraction, where media saturation plays such a large role in our lives, to remember the examples of the ultimate pioneers of change – the Prophets. These were the people whom Allāh appointed as His Messengers on the earth. Allāh did not give us the Qur'an and send the Prophets just for fiqh, or for inspiration. It is primarily their guidance that we must follow if we want to be successful.

Let us not forget that the Prophet Muḥammad ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) went through much worse than we will ever see – for example when, at Ta'if, he had stones hurled at him as that community rejected him and made this d'ua that changed the world:

“O Allāh! Unto You do I complain of my weakness, of my helplessness and of my lowliness before men. O most Merciful of the merciful. O Lord of the weak and my Lord too. Into whose hands have you entrusted me? Unto some far off stranger who receives me with hostility? Or unto a foe whom you have empowered against me? I care not, so long as You are not angry with me. But Your favoring help, that were for me the broader way and the wider scope. I take refuge in the light of Your countenance whereby all darknesses are illuminated and all things of this world and the next are rightly ordered, lest You make descend Your anger upon me or lest Your wrath beset me. Yet it is Yours to reproach until You are well pleased. There is no power and no might except through Thee.”


The real approach that we need is not a perception-improvement strategy, but a life and hereafter strategy. Here are 5 proposals:


1. Put what we see in the media in context.


Don't let your feeling of success be defined by what the media or politicians choose to portray – remember that success is defined by Allāh alone.

Do not let the idea that just because a Muslim did something horrendous make you feel guilty.

Actions:

Do not let the news cycles define your self-image. Be aware of the public mood, but define your life by the real actions that you can do that will positively impact the community.


2. If your neighbors have never been given a good impression of Islam, that is your fault.

Be a dutiful neighbor so much so that they would miss you once you've died.

The Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) said,

“Jibril kept advising me concerning the neighbor to the point that I thought that he would inherit from his neighbor” (Bukhāri, Muslim).

The Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) was known to spend quality time with people, young and old, Muslim as well as Jewish people and others.

Actions:

Share your cooking with a few of your neighbours (make it healthy). Invite them for tea, get to know them and give the opportunity to question you about Islam. Host gatherings – for example this Ramadan hold a street iftar and invite them over. Offer help to those that need it. Feed the Homeless in your city.


3. The BBC, or any Muslim organization, will not actually change anybody's destiny, but Allāh will.

So remember Who to direct your complaint to and remember Who to rely upon.

After the incident at Taif, the Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him)said: “O Allāh! Unto You do I complain of my weakness, of my helplessness and of my lowliness before men…There is no power and no might except through Thee”.

“The Qur'an (27:62) says: “Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth?”

Actions:

Make sincere d'ua after every prayer and pray Qiyaam-ul-layl (even once a week to start with, and keep it simple in the summer with 8-rakah after Isha before sleeping).


4. Have beautiful patience (sabrun jamil) like Yaqub [as] and Muḥammad ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him).

Muslims' words and actions are under the spotlight. This is the time to shine, not be angry or complain to people. If you work with other people, or you work in politics, in a hospital, in a school, a University, then you have an incredible reach for your da'wah.

Actions:

Keep smiling. If people talk about Islam, present it in an admirable way. Pick issues carefully – amongst Muslims and none, this is not the time to divide Muslims further, or antagonize those who aren't Muslim who innocently may be scared. Remember, most of our communication (arguably over 75%) is non-verbal. And stay out of useless protests.


5. Be humble. Learn Islam from those that know it and then connect it with your actions.

We generally lack an understanding in the deen. That means knowledge, our character, our hearts. Do we spend more time on Facebook than we do learning the lessons of the Qur'an?

Actions:

Take some time out for studying at a local class, or even travel to spend time with scholars for 1 day a month. You will find the answers to our everyday challenges mapped out verse by verse in the Qur'an, and this will refuel you to deal with the challenges of the dunya.


None of this is particularly glamorous.

But the way of Islam is to free ourselves from doing what we think is right, and making ourselves slaves of The Creator.

Let us not be reactionary but refocus ourselves on the true long-term goal.

In my own experience, some of my closest friends are those who when they first met me thought I “was a terrorist” just because of what they had read in tabloids. Nobody had spent quality one-to-one time with them to show them otherwise. If we follow Islam properly, at least our hearts can rest in the pleasure of following the command of Allāh – and if He wills it, then we hope He can raise us up to living with wisdom, foresight and patience in the way of the Prophets.


(Highlights inserted)


Nabil Ahmed is a British-based community activist, working in international development. He has held posts in the National Union of Students, was formerly president of FOSIS and has been published in the Guardian, AJE, New Statesman and Suhaibwebb.com.




http://muslimmatters.org/2013/05/26/...olwich-attack/




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glo
05-26-2013, 03:42 PM
I really like this 5-point-plan and as a non-Muslim I can relate to them and learn from them too. So thanks for sharing. :)

Non-Muslims need to take action and make themselves heard too:

Appalled by a wave of attacks on Muslims and their worship places in the wake of a machete killing in London, hundreds of Britons have marched through the city of Newcastle in protest at hate-preaching campaigns against Muslims and their religion.

"We have a long and proud history of immigration and integration in the North East,” Veronica Killen marching with University and College Union lecturers told Socialist Worker newspaper.
“But to combat far right groups on our streets we have to be constantly vigilant."

Hundreds of Britons marched Saturday, May 25, through Newcastle against anti-Muslim rhetoric championed by the far-right English Defence League (EDL).

The rally, organized by Unite Against Fascism, aimed to condemn rising attacks against Muslims and mosques in the wake of a machete killing of a British soldier in London last week.
http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/462852-uk-activists-rally-against-islamophobia.html

[...]
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Ahmad H
05-26-2013, 03:43 PM
A good plan. Every story of every Prophet speaks of rejection, being called liars, being oppressed verbally, being abused physically, etc. They really did put up with a lot. I like your point mostly when you said that the Prophets were not just there for Fiqh. Very good point. I find that this understanding of Prophetic history is overlooked very often. I don't mean this forum, but I mean from a lot of Muslims I meet and know.
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GodIsAll
05-26-2013, 03:48 PM
Zaria! May our Creator bless you for your wisdom in sharing this and for your heart!
I am a pretty stoic man, but I nigh shed a tear reading your post. Beautiful words and philosophy. As stated by Glo, I, too, will take these points to heart.
Thank you again.
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glo
05-26-2013, 03:50 PM
What I find missing in this plan is for Muslims to speak out loud and clear against the Woolwich attack and to make publically known that this is NOT what Islam teaches.

(Yes, it might fall under point 2 or 5, but given the public attention of this attack and the emotions running high, it would be worth mentioning (methinks, anyway ...))
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~Zaria~
05-26-2013, 05:16 PM
I thank you for the replies.

I personally loved the article for the following reasons:

Im the type of person who doesnt watch or listen to news very much (whatever I learn is from spending a short time each day to just catch up on the world on-line).
So, you can imagine my surprise when, for a change, I decided to turn on the radio/ news station on my way home from work - only to hear a discussion about this horrific/ brutal killing in Woolwich.
I was in such shock, that I pulled up into a shopping mall, and started to search for the story on-line......and spent the next 30min sitting in my car......just numb and very, very sad.

This was my first response (as a muslim):

I immediately changed my Whattsapp profile pic to this:







I somehow needed to tell the world (even if it just meant my circle of friends/ acquaintances at the time), that:

"By Allah, This is NOT Islam.
This is NOT the teachings of our beloved, peaceful, loving, forgiving prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).
So, I really hope that these recent events do not taint your perception of our beautiful way of life...."

The next day at work, I met my collegue (muslim) sticking up an article outside his office, condemning the attack.

And I realised that we are all in pain.....and we are all feeling a bit hopeless at what is currently happening in the world.

We have enemies on the outside of Islam - that have made their intentions clear.
But unfortunately, we also have enemies from within us (some knowingly, others just plainly misguided) - and we have to acknowledge this, as hard as it may be.
For at the moment, I fear that they may be causing the greatest harm to the face of Islam.

And yes, it is up to US, the ummah of Muhammed (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) to defend/ protect/ honour and uphold the teachings of Islam.

Now, is not the time to become defensive or dismissive.
It is the time to stand even taller, and to spread the word of Islam even more enthusiastically......and to really make sincere efforts to LIVE in the manner of our prophet (salallahu alaihi wasalam).

If we forget his sunnah, and his way of life, then we have already LOST.
There was a time, when one just had to meet a muslim - and just from observing his manners and way of life, this was enough to accept Islam.

We need to get back to this.
So that when people do crazy things (as they will) - then it becomes really hard to point any fingers at Islam itself, when the rest of its followers have shown what it really means to be a muslim.

Apologies for the lengthy post.

God bless
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Ahmad H
05-26-2013, 09:06 PM
These clerics who fueled the fire and justified violent Jihad to these new converts who did the Woolwich killings are a big part of the problem here. No Muslim should follow those types of clerics.

Best that any Muslim who knows of such clerics to stay away from them. Any cleric who deceives in the name of Allah is worse than the Dajjal.
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Musaafirah
05-26-2013, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What I find missing in this plan is for Muslims to speak out loud and clear against the Woolwich attack and to make publically known that this is NOT what Islam teaches.

(Yes, it might fall under point 2 or 5, but given the public attention of this attack and the emotions running high, it would be worth mentioning (methinks, anyway ...))
Hope I don't offend you. However, I don't see why we as muslims should 'have to' shout out loud that this is not what Islam teaches.
The things these guys did is horrific. My feelings are with the victim's family, as this has been taken completely out of hand and spun into a 'war on terror' event and nobody should have to bear the loss of a family member in such a tragic manner. However, what these guys did is just completely out of the fold of Islam. Media will always spin Islam in a bad light regardless. If the people who carried out the attacks were of any other religion, I doubt this event would have been known as a 'terrorist' attack and would have been 'labelled' what it actually was, the act of two deranged lunatics.
I do however wholeheartedly agree with the main article.
First and foremost, we need to improve our own character and ensure we uphold the banner of Islam with pride.
Alhamdulillah I must say, my colleagues have seen the media spin for what it was.
The thing that upset me also was the fact that images of the attack were shown in free newspapers amongst others, namely 'metro' that could be seen by anyone.
I know, with the advent of social media, youtube, etc, these images are probably freely available, but there really should have been some sensible editing.
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Mustafa2012
05-26-2013, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What I find missing in this plan is for Muslims to speak out loud and clear against the Woolwich attack and to make publically known that this is NOT what Islam teaches.

(Yes, it might fall under point 2 or 5, but given the public attention of this attack and the emotions running high, it would be worth mentioning (methinks, anyway ...))
Many Muslim organizations have publicly condemned this incident unreservedly as soon as it happened.

The Imam at my local mosque condemned it in the Friday sermon.

It was a cowardly attack on an unarmed person.

There is absolutely no justification for it in Islam. I do not know of one knowledgeable person who has said otherwise.

Islam is a religion of justice and a middle path not going to extremes, nor being too easy.

This attack was carried out by two individuals with an extremely twisted understanding of what Islam is about. They acted independently without any authority. Just because they claimed they were Muslims it doesn't mean their actions were those of Muslims, nor where their actions approved of by any Muslim with a balanced understanding of Islam. What they did can only be classified as insane.

There are reports in the last few days in the news saying that the main guy was tortured and abused while he was abroad. a few years back and after that incident he changed and became really extreme. Allaah knows best what the truth is. But it will come out soon :ia:

I think that it's also quite ignorant of anyone that is going out and attacking mosques and Muslims in revenge for what happened. This is not the way to deal with it. It's just going to make things worse.

Almost every Muslim has already condemned this attack.

It is clear that these guys acted independently so don't go taking your frustrations out on Muslims who have nothing to do with it, nor do they condone what happened.

Can you not see that the media is milking this for all it's worth and the right wing idiots are using this to get some attention.

And please stop attacking innocent women because you know that women cannot fight back! By attacking innocent women, it doesn't prove you're a big man.

If you want to pick on someone, then at least try picking on a man or men of your own size. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.
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~Zaria~
05-26-2013, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafirah
Hope I don't offend you. However, I don't see why we as muslims should 'have to' shout out loud that this is not what Islam teaches.
The things these guys did is horrific. My feelings are with the victim's family, as this has been taken completely out of hand and spun into a 'war on terror' event and nobody should have to bear the loss of a family member in such a tragic manner. However, what these guys did is just completely out of the fold of Islam. Media will always spin Islam in a bad light regardless. If the people who carried out the attacks were of any other religion, I doubt this event would have been known as a 'terrorist' attack and would have been 'labelled' what it actually was, the act of two deranged lunatics..

Assalamu-alaikum sister,

I think the difference is, that the perpetrators of these crimes themselves claim to be acting 'in the name Allah'.... in their own distorted version of jihad.

If they had not said as much for themselves, and if this just happened to be a crime committed by Muslims in their own capacity (& not supposedly in the name of islam itself), it would have been a different case and we would not have felt the need to try to clear these misconceptions.

****************

There is nothing wrong in muslim individuals and leaders apologizing/ sympathizing with what has occurred.

Brothers and sisters, we are not only muslim. We are also human.

If we do not feel great pain at the brutality and senselessness behind these recent events (for both muslims and non-muslims), then we need to ask ourselves why?
This is not from the teachings of Islam.

Every single person is a creation of Allah.
If Allah (subhanawataála) can keep people alive and sustain them despite their disbelief in Him (providing His servants with so many chances to turn back to Him) - then who are we to bear hatred in our hearts for our fellow man-kind?

And if we were to realize the great responsibility that Allah (subhanawataála) has bestowed upon those who are from the ummah of Muhammed (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), then we would want to do everything in our power to show the world the true face of Islam.

It is the duty of those who testify to 'Laa illaha illalah'.

Please let us not mock this responsibility that Allah Taa'la has chosen us for.
For He could very easily replace us with another group of people, who would in shaa Allah, do a far better job than ourselves.


:wasalam:
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~Zaria~
05-27-2013, 05:33 AM
:salam:

Just wanted to clarify - ^the above post was not directed to sister Musaafirah, but to another post that I see, has now been removed.


:jz:
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GodIsAll
05-27-2013, 07:16 AM
I wonder if it would be well received if Muslims from local mosques attended the soldier's funeral to pray with the family and show their support?

Acts like these, if sincere, could be a very touching sentiment to family, friends and fellow servicemen at this time.
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Born_Believer
05-27-2013, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
I wonder if it would be well received if Muslims from local mosques attended the soldier's funeral to pray with the family and show their support?

Acts like these, if sincere, could be a very touching sentiment to family, friends and fellow servicemen at this time.
We as Muslims can not pray for a kaffir at his/her funeral.

I totally agree with Imams at local mosques and heads of particular organisations condemning the attack but I dislike how apologetic some of us Muslims become when an incident like this occurs. It is not our fault, nor is it the fault of our communities. According to the FBI, from 1980 to 2005, a period of 25 years, only 6% of terrorist attacks on American soil was carried out by so called Muslims. 6%...let that number sink in as I give you another fact, over 30% of terrorist attacks on American soil were carried out by Hispanics, mainly Cubans and Puerto Ricans, 7% of attacks were carries out by Jews. Europol, which handles criminal intelligence across Europe compiled a list of terrorist attacks across Europe over the last decade, less than 1% of attacks were carried out by so called Muslims. In 2011, the last year for which data is available, there were 24 terrorist incidents in the UK, 0 were perpetrated by "Muslims".

Keep those stats in mind while you read what I have to say next: The Muslim community feels as if it must stand up and shout that they are not responsible, that these individuals do not represent our community. Muslims often feel like they have to go the extra mile, hand out flowers at the scene of the crime, hold multi-faith prayer meetings, which I totally disagree with. Does the hispanic community have to atone for the sins of their own extreme elements? Does the Jewish community, their community leaders and politically motivated groups ever go the extra mile. I could go on and on about Catholic pedophiles or Irish terrorists who should do the same.

I can totally understand we as Muslims must answer the misconceptions based on our religion after such attacks but we should not be going to pray for a dead, kaffir soldier, neither should we be handing out flowers where he was killed or holding multi-faith prayer meetings. That's just not on. We need to stop being so apologetic and thinking of how we can improve certain extreme elements in our community, they are in such a small minority that they are negligible, other communities in Britain needs to look at themselves in greater depths. What we should all be thinking about is "why are Muslims targeting with such ferocity in the media after a single attack, an attack which in reality should be deemed a hate crime and not a terrorist incident in the first place". When a Muslim man was hacked to death just a week prior to the Woolwich attack, obviously fueled by racism, why was that not an act of terrorism?
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Hulk
05-27-2013, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by Born_Believer
We as Muslims can not pray for a kaffir at his/her funeral.
Just to add so people don't misunderstand. From my understanding we can pray for them while they're alive but after their death their matter is with God. Our responsibility as creation is to worship our Creator and when someone dies not doing so then that matter is between him and his Creator, we have no right to come between them.
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glo
05-27-2013, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa2012
Many Muslim organizations have publicly condemned this incident unreservedly as soon as it happened.
Originally Posted by Musaafirah
Hope I don't offend you. However, I don't see why we as muslims should 'have to' shout out loud that this is not what Islam teaches.
Many, many Muslims - individuals and organisations - have condemned the Woolwich attack.

Musaafirah, of course everybody has to make their own decision on this, but let me explain why I think it is important to speak out.

I have mentioned that a mosque in our town suffered an arson attack and that I felt I needed to write and express my condemnation of the attack and my support of the Muslim congregation.

I didn't have to do that.

I could have thought that it's not my business. The mosque is at the other end of the town and - unlike 'our own mosque' down the road from where I live, I have neither ever been there not do I know any of the Muslims who worship there. So what's it to do with me?

Or I could have thought that it is so blindingly obvious that nobody with any shred of humanity or moral grounding or even intelligence would do something as stupid as trying to burn down a mosque in response to something that happened in another part of the country, that it wasn't even worth commenting on. Surely anybody can see that this act is not in keeping with how 'normal' British people think and act. So why make the effort?

Or I could have thought that these things happen in other places too and that Christians in other countries live with that kind of fear and persecution all the time. So what's the difference and why should I speak out?



As it happens I didn't think any of those things.
What prompted me to write to complete strangers in a different part of town in a mosque I have never visited, is the sense that they must feel fearful and under threat. That's not how I would want to feel and therefore it is not something I wish on others.
So I didn't carry out the arson attack.
But that doesn't mean I cannot make it very clear that I condemn it!
I want the brothers and sisters at this mosque to KNOW that not EVERYBODY is against them.
I may be the only person who has bothered to let them know that I pray for their safety and wish them well or I may be one of hundreds. I don't know.

But I hope that that small act will make a difference.

And that's why I believe people need to speak out when wrong-doing is committed.
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glo
05-27-2013, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafirah
Hope I don't offend you. However, I don't see why we as muslims should 'have to' shout out loud that this is not what Islam teaches.
On a different note, perhaps I understand why you are saying that.

It may or may not be similar to why you feel that way, but I was born as a German in Germany just over 20 years after the end of WWII.
My generation of Germans had the atrocities of the Nazi regime drummed into them ... to the point of feeling guilty and ashamed and almost personally responsible for that part of German history.

It actually took me a long time to get over that guilt and shame and to learn to take pride in being German.
The atrocities of the Nazi regime are nothing to do with me! I was not there and I did not take part. I have no need to feel personally responsible or guilty!

And yet, it doesn't take away from the fact that in that period of time horrendous crimes were committed by Germans in the name of some evil philosophy.
And it shouldn't stop me from being able to say loud and clear that I utterly condemn the crimes that were committed and that I am truly sorry for the suffering that was caused.

Does that make sense?
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~Zaria~
05-27-2013, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Born_Believer
We as Muslims can not pray for a kaffir at his/her funeral.

I totally agree with Imams at local mosques and heads of particular organisations condemning the attack but I dislike how apologetic some of us Muslims become when an incident like this occurs. It is not our fault, nor is it the fault of our communities. According to the FBI, from 1980 to 2005, a period of 25 years, only 6% of terrorist attacks on American soil was carried out by so called Muslims. 6%...let that number sink in as I give you another fact, over 30% of terrorist attacks on American soil were carried out by Hispanics, mainly Cubans and Puerto Ricans, 7% of attacks were carries out by Jews. Europol, which handles criminal intelligence across Europe compiled a list of terrorist attacks across Europe over the last decade, less than 1% of attacks were carried out by so called Muslims. In 2011, the last year for which data is available, there were 24 terrorist incidents in the UK, 0 were perpetrated by "Muslims".

Keep those stats in mind while you read what I have to say next: The Muslim community feels as if it must stand up and shout that they are not responsible, that these individuals do not represent our community. Muslims often feel like they have to go the extra mile, hand out flowers at the scene of the crime, hold multi-faith prayer meetings, which I totally disagree with. Does the hispanic community have to atone for the sins of their own extreme elements? Does the Jewish community, their community leaders and politically motivated groups ever go the extra mile. I could go on and on about Catholic pedophiles or Irish terrorists who should do the same.

I can totally understand we as Muslims must answer the misconceptions based on our religion after such attacks but we should not be going to pray for a dead, kaffir soldier, neither should we be handing out flowers where he was killed or holding multi-faith prayer meetings. That's just not on. We need to stop being so apologetic and thinking of how we can improve certain extreme elements in our community, they are in such a small minority that they are negligible, other communities in Britain needs to look at themselves in greater depths. What we should all be thinking about is "why are Muslims targeting with such ferocity in the media after a single attack, an attack which in reality should be deemed a hate crime and not a terrorist incident in the first place". When a Muslim man was hacked to death just a week prior to the Woolwich attack, obviously fueled by racism, why was that not an act of terrorism?

:salam:

I think it all comes back to the definition of "terrorism".

While we agree that there can be many definitions for "terrorism", for most people/ media this term refers to the following:

"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public,
a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."
^ as per the United Nations definition from 1994.


To illustrate this point a little more:
When this incident was intially discussed over a local news station, the presenter (non-muslim) herself, was lamenting over the fact that the word "terrorism" was being used too freely/ inappropiately etc.
A few minutes later, a person called in to say that these were the actual words of the killer -

We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. Your people will never be safe. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day.

“I apologize that women had to see this today, but in our lands women have to see the same thing,” he says. “You people will never be safe. Remove your governments! They don’t care about you.”

"because Muslims are dying daily" at the hands of British troops like him. "We must fight them as they fight us,"
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."
upon which she concluded that this could indeed be called an act of "terrorism" - based on the definitions that are currently held.

^ The point being made, is that we are trying to debate the actual definition of the word "terrorism" - if we do not wish to label politically motivated crimes as such.


Originally Posted by Born_Believer
We need to stop being so apologetic and thinking of how we can improve certain extreme elements in our community, they are in such a small minority that they are negligible, other communities in Britain needs to look at themselves in greater depths. What we should all be thinking about is "why are Muslims targeting with such ferocity in the media after a single attack.....
While it is true that crimes committed by muslims are in the minority - we have to be realistic as well, with regards to what is going in the bigger picture:

The fact is, that these isolated crimes ARE portrayed more frequently by the media (than those committed by any other group).
- And these attacks are (supposedly) made 'In the name of Allah' --> whether or not some of these events are 'false flags' or not is another discussion.......but realise, that THIS is the message that the man on the street is receiving.

He is not hearing about the Zionist who killed so many Palestanians in the name of his 'homeland'.
He is not hearing about the buddists who are torturing the Rohingyians.
He is not hearing about the Christian/ right wing groups who are also committing hate crimes.

......or if it is presented, it is definitely not as frequent/ as hyped.

So, even though muslims are not responsible for the majority of the "terrorist" activities (by current definitions), we cannot ignore the sentiments that are being stirred in the hearts of common-folk, who watch the news and believe everything that they hear.

And so, from this point of view, it is our duty to make clear the message of Islam - at least to those who we are in contact with.

If not, then the message that is currently being actively pumped into the homes of people across the world, is the one that is provided by the media.
And WE know that this is not the truth.

We are the flag-bearers of this deen - if we do not at least try to defend that which should be priority no. 1 in our lives, then who will?


:wasalam:
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Born_Believer
05-27-2013, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
The fact is, that these isolated crimes ARE portrayed more frequently by the media (than those committed by any other group).<br>
- And these attacks are (supposedly) made 'In the name of Allah' --&gt; whether or not some of these events are 'false flags' or not is another discussion.......but realise, that THIS is the message that the man on the street is receiving.
He is not hearing about the Zionist who killed so many Palestanians in the name of his 'homeland'.
He is not hearing about the buddists who are torturing the Rohingyians.<br>
He is not hearing about the Christian/ right wing groups who are also committing hate crimes.
<br>
......or if it is presented, it is definitely not as frequent/ as hyped.<br>
<br>
So, even though muslims are not responsible for the majority of the "terrorist" activities (by current definitions), we cannot ignore the sentiments that are being stirred in the hearts of common-folk, who watch the news and believe everything that they hear.<br>
<br>
And so, from this point of view, it <em>is</em> our duty <u>to make clear the message of Islam </u>- at least to those who we are in contact with.<br>
<br>
If not, then the message that is currently being actively pumped into the homes of people across the world, is the one that is provided by the media.<br>
And WE know that this is not the truth.<br>
<br>
<em>We </em>are the flag-bearers of this deen - if we do not at least try to defend that which should be <u>priority no. 1</u> in our lives, then who will?<br>
<br>
<br>
I agree with some of your points, of course I do. I think it is our duty and will always be our duty as Muslims living in non-Muslim lands to "set the matter straight", meaning we need to get the true Islam out there. As I said in my own post, we should all do that and there is nothing wrong in that. What I said I think is wrong is holding prayer meetings, multi-faith ones at that and handing out flowers at the place where this soldier (not totally innocent) was killed.

Where are the prayer meetings for 57 Iraqis killed in a single week? Where are the flowers being handed out by Muslim committees where the elderly Muslim gentleman was stabbed to death? etc etc etc I could make a list as long as the Shard on that matter.

If someone wants to debate with us on the topic of Islam and terrorism and how the media portrays us we should oblige them wholeheartedly. But we should never feel obliged to apologise for matters which are not of our making. I have met many Muslims who feel apologetic about actually following Islam and feel that if they dressed a certain way, or spoke a certain way, or said certain words they would be singles out as being extreme. We need to be proud of our faith, there is no reason to apologise for it. There is no reason to bend the laws of our faith to accomodate hate fueled racists in Britain (my original reply was to someone saying that we should offer prayers for a kaffir which is just plain wrong).
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Born_Believer
05-27-2013, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Hulk
Just to add so people don't misunderstand. From my understanding we can pray for them while they're alive but after their death their matter is with God. Our responsibility as creation is to worship our Creator and when someone dies not doing so then that matter is between him and his Creator, we have no right to come between them.
I'm sure we can pray for kaffirs to be rightly guided and we should. But at death, if a person has died in a state of khufr, we can not say that it's ok for us to pray for him. Prayer for someone like that is haram (dying in a state of Khufr).
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~Zaria~
05-27-2013, 12:42 PM
^^ I agree brother - our duty is only to bring the truth about the teachings of Islam to light.

In doing so, we do not need to be apologetic for being muslim.
And certainly, we do not need to neglect the teachings of Islam (e.g. by attending the funerals of disbelievers).

But we can show empathy where it is due.

We may not be able to change the way the world reacts to the loss of muslim lives.
But we can work on how we react to the loss of every life - whether muslim or non-muslim - we should be saddened by these types of senseless killings (more so, when the name of Islam is incorrectly associated with these crimes).
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Born_Believer
05-27-2013, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
^^ I agree brother - our duty is only to bring the truth about the teachings of Islam to light.

In doing so, we do not need to be apologetic for being muslim.
And certainly, we do not need to neglect the teachings of Islam (e.g. by attending the funerals of disbelievers).

But we can show empathy where it is due.

We may not be able to change the way the world reacts to the loss of muslim lives.
But we can work on how we react to the loss of every life - whether muslim or non-muslim - we should be saddened by these types of senseless killings (more so, when the name of Islam is incorrectly associated with these crimes).
Thank you for making that final point. I totally agree, any form of killing innocents or killing beyond the correct means of the law is wrong, the religion of the victim is irrelevant. What's worse is when the name of our beautiful religion is dragged through the mud by these limited individuals. Those two young men wasted a potential life filled with beauty and hope...for what? A few newspaper headlines and EDL riots?

The biggest crooks are those involved behind closed doors.
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GodIsAll
05-27-2013, 01:07 PM
Thank you all for insights. They are appreciated.
A poster mentioned earlier about apologizing. That made me raise an eyebrow, too. I see no reason apologies are necessary. Condemnation and clarification, yes.
Born Believer does agree that "getting the real Islam out there" is important.

I would like to see people of faith flock to support support each other in these kinds of situations instead of all the table turning responses and rift enhancing behavior. Keep in mind, I am not directing this at anyone here, but we all see it a lot when these horrendous acts occur.
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GodIsAll
05-27-2013, 01:20 PM
Well said.

A question: Is it haram to pray for the victim's family at this time?

I will pray for them. I will also pray for the innocent UK Muslims feeling aggression from extremist groups right now. I will even pray that God blesses the EDL with wisdom, peace and acceptance.
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observer
05-27-2013, 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
And certainly, we do not need to neglect the teachings of Islam (e.g. by attending the funerals of disbelievers).
.
Is that true? That you couldn't attend the funeral of a non-believer? I mean, so if I were to die, my muslim friends wouldn't be permitted to come to my funeral?
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Born_Believer
05-27-2013, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
Well said.

A question: Is it haram to pray for the victim's family at this time?

I will pray for them. I will also pray for the innocent UK Muslims feeling aggression from extremist groups right now. I will even pray that God blesses the EDL with wisdom, peace and acceptance.
I think the question was is it ok to pray for the dead soldier. Which it is not.

Praying for non-believers is only relevant if you are praying for them to be guided to Islam. We can't offer them prayer the same way we offer prayers for our true loved ones, fellow Muslims.
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glo
05-27-2013, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
I will pray for them. I will also pray for the innocent UK Muslims feeling aggression from extremist groups right now. I will even pray that God blesses the EDL with wisdom, peace and acceptance.
GodIsAll, I cannot rep you right now ... but you really are somebody quite special!
Will a bunch of flowers do?
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Vito
05-27-2013, 02:00 PM
No matter how many times people apologize or condemn anything that goes against the religion its never good enough anyways. How many times have Muslims spoken out against such attacks and how many times do you continue to hear people saying we need more Muslims to speak out and apologize for such things as if its never been done before. When there's a new story about how a "Muslim terrorist" did such and such, the same thing will happen again where people will ask all Muslims to stand up and condemn/apologize for what happened. Rinse and repeat as they say..

I don't care anymore. People are even saying that the tweets from the other thread were done in Photoshop just so they can have an excuse yet you can easily visit their page and see remnants of those tweets. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of patience to deal with those types of people.
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glo
05-27-2013, 02:08 PM
Vito, I understand that it must wear you down. But if you are called to show people the true Islam, don't you have to continue to speak out?
Peace, brother :)
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Independent
05-27-2013, 06:34 PM
There's been a great deal of talk about not wanting to 'apologise' for the Woolwich murders. I also see some good posts about the need for individual purity. But what about actions to reduce or eliminate these incidents in the future? Do people think there is anything that can, or should, be done?

Although most Muslims are opposed to the violence there is a significant minority who see it as justified. And within that, a even smaller minority who want to get actively involved. I'm talking as much about Muslim on Muslim terrorism in iraq etc as the UK. Can anything be done about them? Is anything being done right now?
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Aisha
05-27-2013, 10:29 PM
:sl:

All off-topics posts removed. Please stay on topic. Repeatedly posting the same thing will result in infractions.

:w:
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GodIsAll
05-28-2013, 01:27 AM
I see no reason whatsoever that Muslims should feel apologetic for these acts. Neither can I apologize for many of the horrendous acts committed through American foreign policy. Christians should not be apologetic for the actions of Westboro Baptist church.

Embarrassed and disgusted, though? Certainly.
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glo
05-28-2013, 03:35 PM
What do you think about the response by this mosque in York?
True grace and human kindness in action, as well as courage?

A mosque has been praised for serving tea and biscuits to English Defence League supporters after the far-right group arranged a demonstration there.

[...]

Father Tim Jones, who went to the Bull Lane mosque, which is situated in his parish, said: "I've always known they were intelligent and compassionate people and I think this has demonstrated the extent to which they are people of courage - certainly physical courage and also a high degree of moral courage.

"I think the world can learn from what happened outside that ramshackle little mosque on Sunday."

Hull Road ward councillor Neil Barnes said it had been a "proud moment for York".

He said: "I don't think I'll ever forget the day that the York Mosque tackled anger and hatred with peace and warmth - and I won't forget the sight of a Muslim offering a protester tea and biscuits with absolute sincerity."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-22689552
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glo
05-28-2013, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What do you think about the response by this mosque in York?
True grace and human kindness in action, as well as courage?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-22689552
Here is the account of a friend on facebook who was there (I highlighted the sentence which struck me the most in bold):

"It was really great - there were a lot of students their (the event was widely publicised and promoted on facebook amongst the student community). There was no real EDL presence in the end, and those who were there ended up coming inside for tea too The spirit and feel of the event was so encouraging - it also brought home to a lot of people, the influence of the media and social media in these situations. It is so easy to make a hateful remark on Facebook or Twitter (forums which sparked so much of this particular conflict) but when people group together in real life and have real conversations, you find that almost everybody is reasonable and respectful. It also sparked the creation of the 'Tea Defence League' facebook page, encouraging people to come together in peace to discuss their views: https://www.facebook.com/TeaDeeL"
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~Zaria~
05-29-2013, 04:30 AM

"Instead of wasting time straightening a crooked line drawn by others,

it may be more beneficial to draw a straight line next to it"


Mufti Ismail Menk



In other words:
We cannot undo what has been done by others.

But, we can make every effort to act in the correct manner - one that truly reflects Quran and Sunnah, moving forward.
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