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KAding
05-27-2013, 05:31 PM
Foreign involvement in Syria is getting bigger all the time. The Americans and Europeans are more openly talking about training and arming the rebels, although there is technically still an arms embargo in place. The gulf states are obviously openly supporting the rebels with arms. The Russians and Iran are still sending weapon shipments to Assad as well. And now it appears Hezbollah is also heavily involved in the fighting on the side of the regime, with already more than 100 dead Hezbollah fighters. Lastly, we of course have quite a few foreign jihad fighters who are active in Syria.

Hezbollah suffers heavy losses in Syrian conflict: 104 killed according to watchdog
Published May 23rd, 2013 - 12:54 GMT via SyndiGate.info

Opposition-aligned Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reports 104 Hezbollah militants killed since the conflict began
104 Hezbollah militants have died in the past few months, while fighting in Reef Dimashq and Reef Homs, Syria, a watchdog reported.

According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a British-based opposition-aligned organisation monitoring the conflict, 46 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in the last five days, during fierce fighting in Qusayr.

The watchdog reported that sources confirmed a further 20 Hezbollah members have been killed in battles around Qusayr this month, whilst the organisation lost a further 38 members during Autumn in Reef Qusayr and Reef Dimashq.

Hezbollah has been involved [2] in the Syrian conflict for some time, with its fighters pouring [3] into Syria to take part in the ongoing battle for Qusayr, a strategic town near the Lebanese border which links Damascus to Bashar al-Assad's coastal support base.

Hezbollah initially claimed that it would only get involved in the conflict to defend border villages, home to Lebanese Shi'ites, as well as holy Shi'ite shrines in Damascus.Hezbollah denied any involvement in the Syrian conflict but the militia's involvement has been confirmed as a number of public funerals have taken place in recent days, for militants killed in the ongoing Qusayr fighting.

http://www.albawaba.com/news/hezboll...atchdog-494039
Is all this foreign involvement a good or bad? On the one hand it will only escalate the fighting, but perhaps international involvement is actually better as it prevents this from becoming a silent and forgotten civil war? Maybe it will eventually bring the war to a close more more quickly, either through fighting or international peace efforts.

Discuss...
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جوري
05-27-2013, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Is all this foreign involvement a good or bad?
Bad!!!
Unfortunately east & west has vested interest in
1- Keeping the Asad regime
2- Killing as many Syrians specifically Sunni's in the process and if Hizbuallah thugs go in the process well that is welcome too.
It is a strategic spot as is Jordan and make no mistake all world govt. Haven't the slightest care about the well fare of anyone foreign or domestic.
Unfortunately Muslims have forgotten that all that is needed for victory is faith in :Allah::swt: not an alliance of one brand of evil or another..
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GodIsAll
05-27-2013, 08:03 PM
Stay out, America!
Why can't those self-serving sociopaths in DC figure this out?
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جوري
05-27-2013, 08:32 PM
It isn't just America -- this truly can be the start of WWIII given the interest in the region. Probably be Iran/N. Korea/China/Russia from one side
U.S, E.U & Turkey from the other just given their alliance .. this is huge and I think the desire now is for an all time war fatigue with as many losses of lives as possible before major involvement. The players aren't ametures but this will be the death of many as it already is!
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Junon
05-27-2013, 11:30 PM
Salaam

Originally Posted by KAding
Foreign involvement in Syria is getting bigger all the time. The Americans and Europeans are more [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22677599"]

Is all this foreign involvement a good or bad? On the one hand it will only escalate the fighting, but perhaps international involvement is actually better as it prevents this from becoming a silent and forgotten civil war? Maybe it will eventually bring the war to a close more more quickly, either through fighting or international peace efforts.

Discuss...
Given all that we know about Western powers rather horrendous involvement in the affairs of the Middle East for the past 60+ years, do you really think this is a 'hard' question to answer?
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KAding
05-28-2013, 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Given all that we know about Western powers rather horrendous involvement in the affairs of the Middle East for the past 60+ years, do you really think this is a 'hard' question to answer?
Well, there are many groups (also Syrian ones) that are calling for more foreign intervention, not less! And compared to many other actors (Russia, Iran, Hezbollah, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jihadist fighters) the West isn't very involved at all in the Syrian civil war right now.

My question was not just about possible involvement of the West, but also those many others that are already very much active in the country, either supporting or opposing the regime. Is it good for, say, Qatar to supply the opposition with arms?
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GodIsAll
05-28-2013, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by العنود
It isn't just America -- this truly can be the start of WWIII given the interest in the region. Probably be Iran/N. Korea/China/Russia from one side
U.S, E.U & Turkey from the other just given their alliance .. this is huge and I think the desire now is for an all time war fatigue with as many losses of lives as possible before major involvement. The players aren't ametures but this will be the death of many as it already is!
I pray you're wrong, BB, but I, too, fear the worst.
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جوري
05-28-2013, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
Syrian civil war right now
There isn't a 'civil war' in syria, that's what they'll have you believe. Syria is majority Sunni and even its Alawite population as miniscule as it is are for the revolt so long as it doesn't bring them 'Islamists' by whatever western definition there is of the term. The only reason you perceive that there's a civil war is because Iran is supplying its thugs and so is Hizbuallah which is Iran's poodle in the region, they basically want to eradicate true Muslims so another Persian empire can rise. Which will never happen if I may add :ia: The only thing this will bring is an awakening of the sleeping lion and the rise of the Ummah :ia:

best,
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KAding
05-28-2013, 08:31 PM
Syria Opposition Urges EU to Lift Arms Ban

Syria's opposition urged Monday EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels to lift an arms embargo on the war-torn country, and to allow weapons to be channeled to rebels fighting President Bashar Assad's regime.

"I think it falls upon the EU to really make a decision. It's the moment of truth that we've been waiting for for months," said Khaled al-Saleh, spokesman for the main opposition National Coalition.

"People on the inside (in Syria) continue to ask for weapons to protect themselves," Saleh told AFP.

EU foreign ministers went into talks Monday sharply divided over lifting an embargo to arm Syrian rebels but seeking a compromise to underpin a Russian-U.S. effort to bring the warring parties to a peace conference.

The EU talks were complicated further as Syria's main opposition group remained split on the prospect of peace negotiations with Damascus despite four days of talks in Istanbul.

Syrians "are not even aware probably of the difficulties the (opposition) politicians are facing... Forget about the politicians, think about the Syrians," said Saleh.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said "we think it is important that we show we are ready to amend the arms embargo" so as to send a message to Assad that he cannot win.

Hague said changing the arms embargo would support the overall diplomatic effort.

"Let's get people to the table and see if their positions have changed," he said.

London and Paris have been pushing their partners to amend an existing arms embargo in order to help tip the military balance in favor of the rebels fighting Assad, but many EU nations are fiercely opposed to sending more weapons into a conflict that has killed tens of thousands of people.

The ministers however must find a solution before the expiry at midnight Friday of a far-reaching package of EU sanctions against the Assad regime, including the blanket arms embargo.

Britain and France want the embargo maintained against Assad but relaxed against the opposition Syrian National Coalition, but a group of nations including Austria, Finland, the Czech Republic and Sweden want no change, or at least none before a proposed peace conference being pushed by Russia and the United States.

Austria's Michael Spindelegger said he had talked to Hague before the meeting to tell him that "we have arguments against" easing the arms embargo.

If there has to be an amendment, Spindelegger said he hoped to find a compromise "to (extend) the arms embargo" but still allow time to "see what comes out of" the mooted second peace conference in Geneva.

Several other ministers made similar remarks as they went into Monday's meeting, suggesting that a wait-and-see approach was best for the moment.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will meet his Russian and French counterparts in Paris Monday, pushing the idea for a "Geneva 2" conference aimed at ending the more than two-year conflict, which activists say has killed more than 94,000 people.

Rights groups say more than 90,000 people have been killed in two years of unrest that broke out after the army and security forces unleashed a massive crackdown on an anti-regime uprising.

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/8...-lift-arms-ban
They have more or less gotten what they wanted.

E.U. to allow arms embargo for Syrian rebels to lapse

PARIS — The Obama administration’s go-slow policy on Syria came under renewed pressure Monday as European leaders opted to remove a legal hurdle that had blocked arms flows to rebel groups, while a top Republican critic swooped into Syria to dramatize what he says is the opposition’s urgent need for direct military aid.

The new support for Syria’s embattled opposition came amid high-level diplomatic efforts to find a political solution to the Syrian crisis, as Secretary of State John F. Kerry huddled in the French capital with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to explore prospects for a peace conference that would bring together rebels and Syrian government officials.

Late in the day, the European Union agreed to allow the lapse of a ban on arms deliveries to Syria’s rebels. Foreign ministers from the 27-nation union, meeting in the Belgian capital, failed to muster the votes for renewing the arms embargo, which will expire Friday.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague declared in a tweet the “arms embargo on Syrian opposition ended,” though there was no immediate decision to send arms. “Other sanctions remain” in place, he said, including sweeping restrictions on trade with the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Hague, in separate comments, said that the E.U. decision “sends a very strong message from Europe to the Assad regime,” the Associated Press reported.

Members divided

The E.U. decision not to extend the embargo followed a contentious all-day meeting on whether to allow more military backing for the rebels. France and Britain urged an end to the embargo, seeking to increase pressure on Assad, while other governments, Austria in particular, countered that delivering weapons to the rebels would only increase the bloodshed and that Europe should stick to nonlethal aid such as flak vests, night-vision goggles and medicines.

The lack of agreement had raised the possibility of each E.U. country deciding on its own whether to respond to rebel appeals for more-advanced weapons, particularly antitank and antiaircraft missiles.

<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...a47_story.html
Although it does not appear likely arms from Europe will reach the Syrian opposition before August at the earliest. The EU is heavily divided on this matter and only France and the UK are seriously considering arming the opposition.

I personally oppose this move. I really do not see how providing weapons will in any way help in this conflict. As I see it, it will only increase the level of violence. Nevermind that the political situation is so complex we really do not know where these weapons will end up! We should not get involved in this conflict.
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جوري
05-28-2013, 08:37 PM
Don't you worry Kading, Syrians (Muslims) in general are very industrious they recycle what they have and they innovate & most importantly :Allah::swt: is with them :ia:

best,
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GuestFellow
05-29-2013, 12:54 PM
This so sounds like what happened in Afghanistan during the cold war.
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Jedi_Mindset
05-30-2013, 06:00 PM
Syria is just designed to start a new big war which we would percieve as Al-malhama

There is so much foreign involvement in syria that it is starting to look like Afghanistan II. Russians have just supplied s-300 missles as a counter measure if west decides to intervene. Hezbollah has also been in the conflict, but now more heavily around Qusayr. Mossad, CIA, SAS, qatar, saudi arabia are all in the conflict also. Remember eric harroun? i had doubts about him and it was confirmed, his father right admitted on the TV that he did work for CIA in Syria. Saudi arabia just has bought 35 tons of ammo and weapons from croatia to be supplied to FSA. 160 flights have been from croatia to jordan to supply weapons to rebels.

Israel with 3 airstrikes, turkey with launching attacks on syria. Now russia has been 'fullfilling contracts' with syria, only a fool would believe this, why the S-300 at this moment? Russian warships have also estabilished a permanent task force at the syrian coast. you saw netanyahu shuddering at the conference in sochi? you saw clearly that netanyahu was angry, now its confirmed, the S-300 missles have been supplied. Iran is in syria, but they were already before this all started, russia is starting to mobilize a volunteer task force to fight alongside SAA.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=311_1369928086

N
ow the west wants to arm FSA, the elements they percieve to be not-'extremists'. But Russia has just mentioned they would do the same but to Assad forces, this will include fighter planes and even men. Its a proxy war about what? geopolitical interests, if syria decides to fall and will end up to be a new afghanistan then israel is in danger as recently admitted by ex-mossad chief. It will also be a excuse for israel to launch nukes into the arab world.

http://www.phantomreport.com/qatar-seeks-to-send-yemens-military-elite-to-fight-alongside-the-free-syrian-army

Russia estabilising force to fight alongside SAA:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=311_1369928086

Its all about interests between superpowers and israel, plus the Gas fields in the mediterrean which israel wants to claim.
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جوري
05-30-2013, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Remember eric harroun? i had doubts about him and it was confirmed, his father right admitted on the TV that he did work for CIA in Syria
I had/have my doubts about him too but I can't find anything to corroborate said claims, in fact all I can find is that he's apprehended in the U.S after Turkey turned him over & is being charged with treason.

:w:
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Jedi_Mindset
05-30-2013, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by العنود
I had/have my doubts about him too but I can't find anything to corroborate said claims, in fact all I can find is that he's apprehended in the U.S after Turkey turned him over & is being charged with treason.


:w:
Reply

GuestFellow
05-30-2013, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Syria is just designed to start a new big war which we would percieve as Al-malhama

There is so much foreign involvement in syria that it is starting to look like Afghanistan II. Russians have just supplied s-300 missles as a counter measure if west decides to intervene. Hezbollah has also been in the conflict, but now more heavily around Qusayr. Mossad, CIA, SAS, qatar, saudi arabia are all in the conflict also. Remember eric harroun? i had doubts about him and it was confirmed, his father right admitted on the TV that he did work for CIA in Syria. Saudi arabia just has bought 35 tons of ammo and weapons from croatia to be supplied to FSA. 160 flights have been from croatia to jordan to supply weapons to rebels.

Israel with 3 airstrikes, turkey with launching attacks on syria. Now russia has been 'fullfilling contracts' with syria, only a fool would believe this, why the S-300 at this moment? Russian warships have also estabilished a permanent task force at the syrian coast. you saw netanyahu shuddering at the conference in sochi? you saw clearly that netanyahu was angry, now its confirmed, the S-300 missles have been supplied. Iran is in syria, but they were already before this all started, russia is starting to mobilize a volunteer task force to fight alongside SAA.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=311_1369928086

N
ow the west wants to arm FSA, the elements they percieve to be not-'extremists'. But Russia has just mentioned they would do the same but to Assad forces, this will include fighter planes and even men. Its a proxy war about what? geopolitical interests, if syria decides to fall and will end up to be a new afghanistan then israel is in danger as recently admitted by ex-mossad chief. It will also be a excuse for israel to launch nukes into the arab world.

http://www.phantomreport.com/qatar-seeks-to-send-yemens-military-elite-to-fight-alongside-the-free-syrian-army

Russia estabilising force to fight alongside SAA:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=311_1369928086

Its all about interests between superpowers and israel, plus the Gas fields in the mediterrean which israel wants to claim.
You really are into this geo-politics stuff?

You should a degree in history or something along those lines.
Reply

جوري
05-30-2013, 06:21 PM
Yup, but his father didn't even know his whereabouts so how can he know what his intentions are. Nonetheless that kid doesn't look normal to me, most Americans in the army that I have encountered (although I have encountered them as their physician so my opinion is biased) were just not screwed on tight in the head- most of their presentations to clinics were psychiatric in nature!
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Jedi_Mindset
05-30-2013, 06:36 PM
I think its obvious that he worked for the CIA, maybe he somehow told his dad or just did work for the CIA before in iraq for example. Most US soldiers have PTSD, their trauma's in iraq and afghanistan made them like that, also US soldiers are very violent due to game influence. I know 2 people who want to join the airforce and army here and most likely they do this because of game influence. Some muslims also want to do the same, but to join for example taliban or hamas while the character of these muslims arent right, also they dont practice their religion much, and dont have much knowledge in the Deen. If you have all of this, knowledge, piety, imaan, taqwa then you are ready to go. Thats why many scholars have mentioned that we should change, Allah only helps the ones who helps themselves. We all want the 'golden age' back, but do not our efforts to make this true, this is what saddens me.
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Abz2000
05-30-2013, 07:32 PM
I recall the story 7 at a blow,
The bit with the giants was awesome.
Bearing in mind that Syria is the tipping point and the eastern nations know that if USrael gets hold of Syria its game over for them all, they'll probably all have to desperately claw to hold on, it's going to be difficult, but Allah's Promise is true :)
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Jedi_Mindset
05-30-2013, 08:15 PM
syria is the place where alot will happen both islamic, christian prophecies.
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GuestFellow
05-30-2013, 08:31 PM
^ Please elaborate. No need to use references if you don't have access to them. I will try to accept what you say based on good faith.
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Jedi_Mindset
05-30-2013, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by GuestFellow
^ Please elaborate. No need to use references if you don't have access to them. I will try to accept what you say based on good faith.
1. Isa(As) will arrive in syria
2. it will be the area where al-malhama takes place
3. Masih ad-dajjal will go to syria and be confronted by Isa(As).
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the_stranger
05-30-2013, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
Stay out, America!
Unfortunately, it's way too late for this. America doesn't like to talk about it, but we've been poking around in Syria for decades. Most people agree that our goal was to install a government that would be sympathetic to Israel. What many people don't know (or don't like to acknowledge) is that in the 60's, the Unites States was a supporter of the Baath party. Guess who the CIA considered an "asset" at the time? Saddam Hussein! America is much more responsible for what is happening in Syria than we like to admit.


Originally Posted by GuestFellow
This so sounds like what happened in Afghanistan during the cold war.
You nailed it, GuestFellow. Back then, the CIA was providing weapons, funding, and training to the Mujahideen (sp?). When they were fighting the Soviets, they were "freedom fighters." Fast forward a couple decades, when they are fighting America, and they suddenly become "terrorists."

America is your best friend when you are doing what we want. But the moment you start thinking for yourself.....
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GuestFellow
05-30-2013, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by the_stranger

You nailed it, GuestFellow. Back then, the CIA was providing weapons, funding, and training to the Mujahideen (sp?). When they were fighting the Soviets, they were "freedom fighters." Fast forward a couple decades, when they are fighting America, and they suddenly become "terrorists."

America is your best friend when you are doing what we want. But the moment you start thinking for yourself.....
:sl:

I think these groups will be influenced to fight Russia and China...
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the_stranger
05-30-2013, 11:56 PM
I don't mean to take over this thread, but I want to add one more thing.

I think that we would all be wise to keep a close eye on American involvement in southeast asia. We are quietly building our presence in that part of the world, likely because it is just not possible to ignore China's status as a superpower. I think that we will see much of the two-faced behavior that we displayed in the mideast repeated in southeast asia. There are already hints of this. In the past couple of years the US has opened it's arms to Myanmar, just as Myanmar is becoming increasingly genocidal towards Muslims. I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of this is quite limited, but I have a bad feeling that in 10-15 years we will be having the same conversations about America fighting in (against?) the Muslim world.
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nila11
05-31-2013, 09:15 AM
The Syrian civil war was received major international attention, and both the Syrian government and the opposition were received support from foreign powers.
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