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Junon
06-29-2013, 11:27 AM
Salaam

An update on whats happening in Egypt. Looks like its going to get ugly imsad

US citizen dies in Alexandria as tensions rise between supporters and opponents of President Mohamed Morsi

Egypt suffered renewed outbreaks of violence on Friday as Muslim Brotherhood offices were attacked in at least four provinces, two days before the scheduled start of mass protests against the president and Brotherhood associate Mohamed Morsi

Two people were killed in Alexandria on Friday – one was an American bystander who was watching an attack on local Brotherhood offices – and 70 were injured. Clashes were reported in several other cities between Morsi's often secular-minded critics, who seek his immediate resignation, and his allies in the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups, who defend his democratic legitimacy.

The US updated its advice to its citizens on Friday, asking them to defer non-essential travel to Egypt "due to the continuing possibility of political and social unrest". The US state department withdrew some non-emergency staff and family members from the country.

Six people have been killed in the renewed violence this week. According to Brotherhood officials, a former MP from their political wing, the Freedom and Justice party, was among the dead on Thursday.

Many fear far worse on Sunday. Opposition activists claim that 15 million Egyptians have signed a petition calling for Morsi's departure, while his supporters say 11 million have signed one asking for him to stay. Spokesmen for both factions blamed the other side for starting the clashes, with the Brotherhood claiming some violence was fomented by forces still loyal to ousted dictator Hosni Mubarak – a claim rebutted by anti-Morsi activists.

Much of the opposition, who view Morsi as incompetent and authoritarian, hope Egypt's military will intervene and facilitate a transition of power. Morsi, inaugurated last year as Egypt's first democratically elected president, emphasised in a speech on Wednesday that he was the army's commander-in-chief. But a senior military source said the army may act if protests reach the same scale as those that toppled Mubarak in 2011.

Such an outcome would not be taken lying down by Morsi's supporters. "This would not be like the fall of Mubarak," said Nathan Brown, professor of Middle Eastern politics at George Washington University. "A lot of people co-operated with the Mubarak regime, but there were very few who would voluntarily and enthusiastically turn out on the streets for him. The Brotherhood is very different."

Egypt's leading Islamic authority underlined the severity of the threat facing the country. "Vigilance is required to ensure we do not slide into civil war," said Sheikh Hassan al-Shafie – a senior cleric at al-Azhar, a 1,000-year-old mosque and university often considered the highest seat of learning in the Sunni Islam world.

Such fears may yet prove highly exaggerated, especially as no faction controls formal militias. But Egypt is clearly polarised, as shown by two competing rallies in Cairo on Friday. In Tahrir Square, thousands of Morsi critics gathered in a dress rehearsal for Sunday's protests, chanting: "Banish the murshid [the Brotherhood leader] and all who are with him."

Five miles away, near the presidential palace, hundreds of thousands gathered in defence of his office and his beliefs. "Islam, Islam," some shouted. "Islam in spite of liberalism."

With both sides waving Egyptian flags, there was a sense that the rallies constituted two competing and irreconcilable visions of Egypt: one Islamist, the other secular – though still religious.

But there were signs that the ideological divide was not unbridgeable.

"I'm not here for religious reasons, I'm just here to respect the office of the presidency," said Tariq Shabasy, a lawyer who is a former member of Kefaya, the liberal Mubarak-era protest movement – and a surprising attendee at the pro-Morsi rally.

Nevertheless, the rally may eventually play a role in any full-on factional fighting. Its attendees started a sit-in on Friday night, promising to defend the nearby presidential palace should state officials fail to prevent anti-Morsi protesters from breaching it in the coming days.

Elsewhere there were hints of a media crackdown, with a prominent opposition media baron, Mohamed al-Amin,– who owns a newspaper critical of the president and a TV station that hosts the satirist Bassem Youssef – banned from leaving the country. Morsi attacked Amin in a Wednesday night speech for not paying his taxes.

Another opposition talkshow host, Tawfiq Okasha, was arrested on Thursday and his channel shut down. The investment minister, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, also sacked representatives of three private channels from the board of a state-run body that helps regulate television. Several private channels were threatened with closure.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/

Video update



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Jedi_Mindset
06-29-2013, 02:45 PM
The anti-morsi protests have already being signed by around 15 million people, the pro-morsi rallies will be very large as well. hope they wont class, its going to get ugly indeed, US has already put some troops on stand by if their interests will be attacked.
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جوري
06-29-2013, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
being signed by around 15 million people
lol.. we all saw the guy forging in the balcony by street cameras of course didn't make it to corporate news but even he had to take a break, there are no 15 million anti Mursi signatures all the Christians of Egypt and the Mubarak orphans don't constitute that much of the population.

perhaps it needs to get ugly so we can get rid of the ugly in our midst.. as a wise scholar once said when you prepare for war, save nine bullets for traitors and one for your enemy for it is they who cause fitna and they who enable outsiders in!

and if you can read Arabic then have a look at the real numbers here:
http://islammemo.cc/akhbar/arab/2013/06/29/175040.html

Also the Egyptian army which is conscript of the people isn't going to do what was done in Algeria with the Islamists even if the kaffirs may detest it. :ia: a true victory from :Allah: :swt: is upon us.. labor is always difficult but worth it when a new beautiful life is born!

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sister herb
06-29-2013, 05:12 PM
Salam alaykum

I think that Egyptians have a long way to the real democracy - if they even are looking for it.

It is not to go to the roads to kill others.

:nervous:
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جوري
06-29-2013, 05:49 PM
Only those toting liberalism, democracy and free speech are doing the killing. They neither want true democracy for it hasn't brought them what they desire which is the darkness of the old regime. Nor do they give a chance for others to express themselves, and only they kill a man of four while performing Asr prayer in a mosque or torch infrastructure of Muslims and everything else they can do in between to wreak havoc and carnage. My cousin had a gun to his at 11 in the morning while waiting for friends to pick him up. It wasn't 'Muslim brotherhood' or 'Mursi' behind it, rather the paid thugs of the old regime which are heavily funded by the west and Mubarak from behind bars and everyone in Egypt with a brain that function knows it.

Obama can stand to give a speech on the riots on Brazil than the ones of Egypt but why would the west drop the hypocrisy for a day? they love that kind of chaos they foment it!
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Karl
06-30-2013, 01:13 AM
Maybe Egypt could be split up. All the commercial tourist traps could be non Muslim and other areas Muslim. Just like Bali is in Indonesia. At least you would get all the tax money for the entire nation.
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جوري
06-30-2013, 01:58 AM
And don't you think that's their plan too including the killing of the American to get America involved in the scam to divide it into four Nubian/ Christian Sinai and lower Egypt which is its upper part!
It won't happen Karl!
Egypt is Islamic and all the manure multiplied by all the media in the world still is no more than ten percent that will submit either of their own free will or by force!
The **** of Egypt just want a similar style military coup to echo that of Algeria against Muslims but it will NOT happen in ارض الكنانة and let them all ride their highest horse!
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Karl
06-30-2013, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by جوري
And don't you think that's their plan too including the killing of the American to get America involved in the scam to divide it into four Nubian/ Christian Sinai and lower Egypt which is its upper part!
It won't happen Karl!
Egypt is Islamic and all the manure multiplied by all the media in the world still is no more than ten percent that will submit either of their own free will or by force!
The **** of Egypt just want a similar style military coup to echo that of Algeria against Muslims but it will NOT happen in ارض الكنانة and let them all ride their highest horse!
But isn't submission to God a choice? If God does not force people to be Muslims then Muslims cannot be righteous to force Islam upon others.
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Aprender
06-30-2013, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
Muslims cannot be righteous to force Islam upon others.
How is implementing Shariah law in its entirety forcing Islam upon others? No one is making a non-Muslim say the shahada if they were to live under Islamic rule. There are many aspects of Islamic governance that is appealing to non-Muslims and historically non-Muslims have flourished under Muslim governments.

Karl, I'm a revert to Islam and a political science and history enthusiast. Have you studied what Islamic governance is and what it entails? I cannot understand how some (and my dear respected brother I'm not talking about you in specifics here) can consider themselves Muslims but advocate democracy when The Lord of the Worlds has given us something even better than that.
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جوري
06-30-2013, 03:06 AM
Actually Egypt is far from implementing sharia still pretty secular but Karl here has many things wrong with his understanding of Islam often talks like a non Muslim who's interested in prepubertal girls at any rate it isn't an issue I don't actually expect someone who's not read in its constitution or understands the nuances of what's going on to understand I do however expect him to understand the basic principles of western style democracy you don't for instance split off with 49% of the us because you don't like the liberal laws if Obama
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Muhaba
06-30-2013, 07:02 AM
The problem is that when secularists get the government and Islamists aren't happy with it, the islamists are the ones who have to be patient, because secularists got the government democratically. Any riots or protests by islamists are suppressed and islamists who protest are called anti-democratic, etc. But when Islamists rightfully get the government through a democratic process, secularists cause a commotion and don't stop at anything. In this case, the secularists are right and the Islamists are at fault.

This is just awful! May Allah help the Muslims.
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Trumble
06-30-2013, 11:14 AM
I thought this had far less to do with 'Islamists', 'secularists' and Sharia than the perception Morsi had failed to keep election promises, and that his policies were sending the economy down the toilet?

Which is, of course, probably just as true as any other democratically elected administration around at the moment. 'Demonstrators' from both sides just need to quieten down, go home and plan their campaigns for the next election. Members of the administration need to actively encourage all freedom of expression and not close and threaten media outlets, whether they like or approve of their output or not. It becomes far too easy to claim - and even come to actually believe - that what is in 'our' interests must necessarily be in the people's interests.
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جوري
06-30-2013, 01:21 PM
Mursi kept most of his promises there are no quick fixes and his achievements to date are listed for all to see- the economy which he inherited will take a while it's not his fault the country was run by mafiosos who took billions if blood money to Swiss banks under foreign names!
Everyone can see his salary as well by the media *****s you listen to especially in egypt make millions it's all really quite amusing.
So far the anti mursi demonstrators have been doing all the killing I guess these are the liberal values they wish to maintain two days ago they killed a father of four during asr prayers not sure how much lower can they get shooting a man in the back and inside a sanctuary they want hell in Egypt it will afflict only them inshallah Allah and how can he fix more with that crap going on daily they've stood in the way of every decision he made including the desire to get a parliament under way they're nothing but a bunch of **** hooligans orphans of the old regime composed of ***** actresses criminals he let out of prison and Christians who are always conspiring they did it with every invader that has knocked on egypts doors and it's listed their traitorousness when Napoleon entered Egypt killed maimed and stole entire temples with their aid!

No matter we will watch and see and victory to the salves of Allah victory is to the most persevering!
Btw I am no mursi fan prefer Abu ismael but this is who the people elected and a bunch of refuse terrorizing people won't change that choice!
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Jedi_Mindset
06-30-2013, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by جوري
Btw I am no mursi fan prefer Abu ismael but this is who the people elected and a bunch of refuse terrorizing people won't change that choice!
Really? I would've loved to see him rule egypt. Felt like this man had some sense. He got disqualified from the election campaign right?
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جوري
06-30-2013, 02:05 PM
Yes, he got disqualified by the same thugs trying to do the same thing with Mursi now.. Of course the brotherhood holds the biggest threat because they're the most organized party.
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Signor
06-30-2013, 06:45 PM
As far as I know the problem,there is so much division and anger because of several reasons, fueled by extremist, deceiving media, economic frustration, and a reaction of years of political oppression. The voice of moderation, compassion, tolerance is unheard now.
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جوري
06-30-2013, 07:11 PM
How do you define extremists in this context please? the only ones doing the killing are black bloc thugs and the opposition or as they're known the orphans of Mubarak.. of course they're heavily funded, mubarak had best use his billions wisely to wreak havoc!
here's a youtube video of the cops vowing to kill the dogs i.e the Muslims:

the only extremists in any spot of the Muslims world are western sponsored thugs and liberals and the church of satan!
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Signor
06-30-2013, 07:35 PM
^^who on Earth is in disagreement with you here,I am and will remain Anti Mubarak(not a personal conflict but on the basis of his actions).

Right now I didn't describe who is doing what,We don't need to know the faces but to know the powers which are governing people.This is why also I wrote

Originally Posted by Signor
deceiving media, economic frustration, and a reaction of years of political oppression.
Indeed,Hidden hands are fueling the fire

Fidel Castro once said:
No thieves, no traitors, no interventionists! This time the revolution is for real!
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جوري
06-30-2013, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Signor
who on Earth is in disagreement with you here
What's wrong with asking you to define who, you believe the extremists to be? I think it is fair since you put it out there, I don't see it as a disagreement rather a point that needs elucidation!
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Karl
07-01-2013, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Aprender
How is implementing Shariah law in its entirety forcing Islam upon others? No one is making a non-Muslim say the shahada if they were to live under Islamic rule. There are many aspects of Islamic governance that is appealing to non-Muslims and historically non-Muslims have flourished under Muslim governments.

Karl, I'm a revert to Islam and a political science and history enthusiast. Have you studied what Islamic governance is and what it entails? I cannot understand how some (and my dear respected brother I'm not talking about you in specifics here) can consider themselves Muslims but advocate democracy when The Lord of the Worlds has given us something even better than that.
I don't advocate democracy. I just thought that the areas of pagan wonders the tourists want to see could be non Muslim so business can thrive there. Areas with Muslim culture and lots of devout Muslims could be Sharia. Or would it be better to rip all the pagan wonders down and get rid of tourism? Money being the root of all evil.
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جوري
07-01-2013, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
I don't advocate democracy. I just thought that the areas of pagan wonders the tourists want to see could be non Muslim so business can thrive there. Areas with Muslim culture and lots of devout Muslims could be Sharia. Or would it be better to rip all the pagan wonders down and get rid of tourism? Money being the root of all evil.
A country's economy that is based on riba and tourism has no place in Islam.. not sure what brand of Islam you're advocating here, one that even Muslims aren't familiar with!
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Snel
07-01-2013, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
Two people were killed in Alexandria on Friday – one was an American bystander who was watching an attack on local Brotherhood offices – and 70 were injured. Clashes were reported in several other cities between Morsi's often secular-minded critics, who seek his immediate resignation, and his allies in the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups, who defend his democratic legitimacy.
According to the western media you are always a secularist of you're against Morsi, you can only be a muslim if you're with the muslim brotherhood. This is an attempt to give secularists political power through increased attention from the western media. So if Morsi goes down, there can only be secularism left. Ofc, the western media is dreaming, because this doesn't represent reality AT ALL. In fact, most of the opposition in Egypt are muslims themselves, but this is kept hidden intensively.

We shouldn't let the secularists have a chance to abuse the situation.
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observer
07-01-2013, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Snel
We shouldn't let the secularists have a chance to abuse the situation.
You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.
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Jedi_Mindset
07-01-2013, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by observer
You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.
Its possible, but these are usually the people who are most likely have lack of knowledge regarding islam. There are muslims who say that secularists are kufar, this is wrong to say, but the secularists have been misguided. Egypt was nationalistic and secularist for a loooong time, the people ofcourse have adopted it, generation after generation. That we muslims have adopted it is our own fault, and not the west nor their armies.

Now egypt has a government which is democratic but would like to have some islamic laws, this ofcourse would cause a lot of friction. The muslim brotherhood has alot of supporters.

Prophet muhammed(saw) said: ''Woe unto the arabs for an evil which has come near''

Now i know why.
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جوري
07-01-2013, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by observer
You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.
No it isn't.. the principals of Islam are at odds with secularism. That's an expansive field that I have no desire to get into now or at this hour!

in fact what is going on in Egypt as heavily funded as is and as fomented as it is with the likes of the witch Ann Paterson and everyone can review her history in pakistan and Colombia is the only attempt left to break down Egypt

so let them fund it then and let me quote from the noble Quran the millennium year book:



Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered.
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جوري
07-01-2013, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Now egypt has a government which is democratic but would like to have some islamic laws
No such thing have you read the constitution? well I have listened to all eight hours going over its articles one by one.. Article two was always there in the old form as well perhaps a new light has been breathed into it but not implemented! Do not be fooled by them calling it Islamist.. all there is, is that the brotherhood came into power the choice of the people but are a very long way from making any true Islamic changes.

:w:
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Junon
07-01-2013, 03:40 PM
Salaam

Originally Posted by observer
You know, it's perfectly possible to be muslim and secularist.
This really shows you how much you understand Islamic societies, 'you know'.

Apart from that interesting discussion. It is interesting how the secular liberal media (Guardian, BBC etc) in the west are trying to frame the issue. The long and short of it, Secularist = Good, Islamist = Bad.

But I think the issues are more complicated than that, I'm not sure about President Morsi, strikes me as being to cosy with the US and Israel among many other things (economy, corruption etc) though these problems are going to take decades to overcome.

The one thing that concerns me is that secular liberal ideology must not triumph. It has in Europe and you can see the corresponding decline in religious attachment and observance (Christianitys decline, ban on niqaabs etc etc).
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جوري
07-01-2013, 03:55 PM
He's not cozy with them at all.. in fact he refused to meet with Ann Paterson who is working her charm in Egypt the same way she did in Columbia and Pakistan before.. it goes far deeper than what appears on the surface and if he weren't on the path that angers the powers that be he wouldn't be met with that much resistance .. of course whenever I post gory pix it is met with disdain as if I am trying for shock value but I have never seen anything as vile or as rabid as liberals beating people to death and raping women in Tahrir square publicly those are the values they wish to replace the current elected governance for!
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observer
07-01-2013, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Junon
This really shows you how much you understand Islamic societies, 'you know'.
Maybe, or maybe it shows that muslims have a wider range of beliefs than you might think?

http://www.seculardemocracy.org/
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جوري
07-01-2013, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by observer
Maybe, or maybe it shows that muslims have a wider range of beliefs than you might think?

http://www.seculardemocracy.org/
Not really Islam doesn't conform to people, people conform to it and there's no compulsion in religion. You can't add, subtract, modulate to appeal to others. It isn't possible to be ahamdi and call yourself Muslim, to be a practicing homosexual and call yourself Muslim, to be a communist and call yourself Muslim. Muslim then is a smokescreen for some other agenda perhaps to appease your western compatriots but no one with basic understanding of Islam will integrate other ideologies and then label it under a catch all phrase 'Islam' You can be a bad Muslim and there are gradation of that, surely ignorance isn't an excuse especially with the religion of Iqra 'read'

best,
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Karl
07-02-2013, 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by جوري
A country's economy that is based on riba and tourism has no place in Islam.. not sure what brand of Islam you're advocating here, one that even Muslims aren't familiar with!
I suppose it's up to the Egyptians to decide as not all are Muslims and most would probably not want to destroy the pagan wonders of idol worship and drive out tourists and foreign investment. They have become too comfy and greedy for wealth.
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جوري
07-02-2013, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
I suppose it's up to the Egyptians to decide as not all are Muslims and most would probably not want to destroy the pagan wonders of idol worship and drive out tourists and foreign investment. They have become too comfy and greedy for wealth.
you're wrong on several levels.
1- the decision is always with :Allah: :swt:
Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:57] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]
Qul innee AAala bayyinatin min rabbee wakaththabtum bihi ma AAindee ma tastaAAjiloona bihi ini alhukmu illa lillahi yaqussu alhaqqa wahuwa khayru alfasileena
2- 90% of Egypt is Islamists only 10% Christians and those of them from sa3eed upper Egypt were with the side of the pro Islamic regime, for two reasons one if that they're homogeneous with the society unlike the cairo crowd and also because they know if they usurp the people voted on constitution it will blow in their face.
3- If Islamists or Muslims wanted to destroy idols they'd have done so in the reign of Amr ibn Il3aas when Islam reigned supreme .. the Quran in fact tells us to look at those monuments and marvel at umam that were destroyed and not to touch their places or take them for homes..

Who taught you Islam Karl?

best,
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Karl
07-02-2013, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by جوري
you're wrong on several levels.
1- the decision is always with :Allah: :swt:
Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:57] [RECITE]
Qul innee AAala bayyinatin min rabbee wakaththabtum bihi ma AAindee ma tastaAAjiloona bihi ini alhukmu illa lillahi yaqussu alhaqqa wahuwa khayru alfasileena
2- 90% of Egypt is Islamists only 10% Christians and those of them from sa3eed upper Egypt were with the side of the pro Islamic regime, for two reasons one if that they're homogeneous with the society unlike the cairo crowd and also because they know if they usurp the people voted on constitution it will blow in their face.
3- If Islamists or Muslims wanted to destroy idols they'd have done so in the reign of Amr ibn Il3aas when Islam reigned supreme .. the Quran in fact tells us to look at those monuments and marvel at umam that were destroyed and not to touch their places or take them for homes..

Who taught you Islam Karl?

best,
"Islamists" why do you use the Zionist anti Islam terminology for Muslims?
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جوري
07-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
"Islamists" why do you use the Zionist anti Islam terminology for Muslims?
A a terminology more in keeping with your understanding!

best,
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Trumble
07-02-2013, 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by Junon
The one thing that concerns me is that secular liberal ideology must not triumph. It has in Europe and you can see the corresponding decline in religious attachment and observance (Christianitys decline, ban on niqaabs etc etc).
Far from 'corresponding' with any secular liberal ideology, the undoubted 'decline in religious attachment and observance' has far more to do with what became known as The Enlightenment and its long-term consequences. Secularism was a inevitability in a culture torn apart by religious conflict for many centuries. Modern bans on niqaabs and such have no 'correspondence' either - quite the contrary. They are the result of bigotry and paranoia, not liberal or secular anything.


Originally Posted by جوري
He's not cozy with them at all.. in fact he refused to meet with Ann Paterson who is working her charm in Egypt the same way she did in Columbia and Pakistan before.. it goes far deeper than what appears on the surface and if he weren't on the path that angers the powers that be he wouldn't be met with that much resistance .. of course whenever I post gory pix it is met with disdain as if I am trying for shock value but I have never seen anything as vile or as rabid as liberals beating people to death and raping women in Tahrir square publicly those are the values they wish to replace the current elected governance for!
Really? And why should we accept your wishful thinking and assumptions as to who these people are and what their values might be rather than, say, this article?

Let's see.

Tamarod focused on collecting signatures for a petition that complains:

Security has not been restored since the 2011 revolution

The poor "have no place" in society

The government has had to "beg" the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a $4.8bn (£3.15bn) loan to help shore up the public finances

There has been "no justice" for people killed by security forces during the uprising and at anti-government protests since then

"No dignity is left" for Egyptians or their country

The economy has "collapsed", with growth poor and inflation high

Egypt is "following in the footsteps" of the US
Maybe just a little more complicated than 'secularists', 'Islamists', 'liberals' and conservatives, hmm? It usually is.
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جوري
07-02-2013, 08:32 AM
I agree with above post except that the alleged decline in religious attachments is contrived - Egyptian people by their very nature are deeply religious and this goes back to the time of the Pharos they've always been concerned with life, death meaning of it they've volumes of literature dedicated to it. Any detachment was a systematic one by a govt. that was very divorced from the people, the 'king's muftis' and of course the media. It's interesting to note that a country in a horrible economic decline would spend billions on soap operas and songs and talk show hosts literally millions go to talk show hosts as funded by the state another reason they hate mursi so much is the cap on salaries and age whenever he tries to make changes they proclaim he's a dictator can't touch the judicial system can't touch the independent media which by the way is anything but independent still pretty much a state media and a mouth piece for the old regime. They'd send Americans to award morons degrees in excellent journalism morons like ibrahim isa when they've never seen a show by him but hey he mocks the Quran prophet and Islam that's Nobel worthy of course. I can write volumes of in incidents on the systematic brain Washing and criminalisation of Islam in Egypt how if you were bearded they'd grab you to torture you from mosques my father's friend was taken after Friday prayer in their boyhood never to be seen nor heard from again.
Brotherhood was criminalized you've to join the army in Egypt but they were banned and systematic brain wash against them is quite prevelant they mock them with worse derogatory terms undoubtedly words they used on them during their imprisonment and torture - anyhow I am typing in the dark from my phone so I don't know how this turned out hopefully you get the gist!
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جوري
07-02-2013, 08:41 AM
My reply above is to the post before last!
As to why my word over articles well Trumble you don't have to of course you're free to your beliefs the same faulty ones you've for years for instance with the Palestinian boy that died at the hands of IDF pigs with your insistence it was all a hoax- I just posted an article on that with you in mind specifically :alhamd: the truth came out ironically in a French court of all places so you stick with articles that support your beliefs and not the facts all you want that's what concrete thinkers do.
Are you on the ground in Egypt? Have you lived there? Do you've relatives there? Are your relatives there from the Air Force, army or special forces? If no to one or all the above then you've your answer as to why your articles aren't worth a rats well you know!

Best,
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