Madhhab and Ijma

[Abz2000]

I learnt that when there are differences, we go back to Quran and sunnah.And unless there is a khilafah, there is no consensus.ike in bangladesh where the MAJORITY of scholars agree that it is ok to bow down and touch the feet of elders in respect or to seek forgiveness.For a person who's never left the country, it is the "ijma' - some people consider those who dispute this method of respect to be isolated rabble rousers.And regarding the four imams, I find it difficult to believe that it is the command of Allah or the opinion of the messenger (pbuh) that delving into knowledge ends with the opinion (sometimes contradictory) of either of the four. We are all Muslim who submit to God and who live on earth. Two Muslims cannot be standing in prayer and the prayer of one stands while that of the other is nullified due to the same action. This ummah of yours is one Ummah, and your God is One God. To me it is more like a sect following when you have Muslims split into four groups with often contradictory rulings on essential matters - with each group calling the opinion they follow "concensus" (like in BD). Do we not need a revolution and a united stance on the Quran and sunnah?Allah A'lam but I don't believe it'll ever be possible without a pledge of allegiance to one Islamic authority who is not influenced by kuffar rulers.The four scholars were respected men with high standards of learning, but knowledge doesn't end with them. Let us not become a stagnant group of helpless individuals. Islam is universal and eternal.Omg bowing down and touching the feet of the Prophet pbuh wasnt allowed, yet we are called rebellious for refusing?وَإِذا قيلَ لَهُمُ اتَّبِعوا ما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ قالوا بَل نَتَّبِعُ ما أَلفَينا عَلَيهِ ءاباءَنا ۗ أَوَلَو كانَ ءاباؤُهُم لا يَعقِلونَ شَيـًٔا وَلا يَهتَدونَWhen it is said to them: \"Follow what Allah hath revealed:\" They say: \"Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers.\" What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?وَمَثَلُ الَّذينَ كَفَروا كَمَثَلِ الَّذى يَنعِقُ بِما لا يَسمَعُ إِلّا دُعاءً وَنِداءً ۚ صُمٌّ بُكمٌ عُمىٌ فَهُم لا يَعقِلونَThe parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.Quran 2:170-171Ibn `Abbas (ra) said: "Stones are about to rain down upon you from the sky: I say to you: "Allah's Messenger said..." and you reply: "But Abu Bakr and `Umar said...?"Ibn `Abbas (ra) repudiated those who, when they were informed that the Prophet had pronounced upon a matter, objected that Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq and `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with them both) 2 had said something different, thus, in effect, preferring the opinions of these two pious Companions over the Revelation of Allah.though we know that the closest companions followed the spirit of the teachings more than the others.When you start to build a new penthouse compassing the edges, you don't drop the plumbline to the middle, you drop it to as near the foundation as possible.Apologies for being so non-compliant to what I see as blind disobedience.Four opposing opinions are NOT unanimous in today's day and age, they may have been when travel and communication was restricted.Neither are three gods one.Peace.

[Urban Turban]

Four opposing opinions are NOT unanimous in today's day and age, they may have been when travel and communication was restricted.Neither are three gods one.Peace.

Four opposing opinions are NOT unanimous? Ok, but laymen following opinions they like, be it isolated or un-isolated...are unanimous, WOW!

Before posting, have you thought of the consequences for the laymen practicing what you just posted?

So Abz2000 goes back to Quran and Sunnah, I go back to Quarna and Sunnah, X goes back to Q & S and we all come up with corresponding views? ;D

So the Imam's of Fiqh didn't go back to Q & S, but pulled out their opinions out of thin air. Yeah.

May Allah SWT grant you guidance or may He isolate you from the ummah. Ameen. The rest automatically gets taken care of.

[Abz2000]

Apologies for the earlier post turning out with no spacing, don't know why that sometimes happens on the iPhone despite all syntax being ok at time of posting,Brother Urban Turban, I have no personal dispute with you, and would do my best to make exceptions and excuses before attacking since you are a Muslim, but please think twice before calling the Quran and Hadith "bullcrap" because nothing else was "copy pasted", i wrote it alone while I was sitting in a mudshack in a remote village while on my eid holidays,And without trying to dispute with you, I would just like to add some info in case any false perceptions about "isolation" are created.Just because certain "experts" see what they perceive to be "isolation" as negative, it doesn't necessarily mean that sometimes moving yourself away from wrangling and unnecessary undignifying dispute is negative, most of the Prophets (pbut) liked their private time, and they'd often get enough of it with their flocks, the Prophet pbuh would often betake himself to solitude and away from the influence and hustle and bustle of the city before revelation came and also after. The revelation itself came while he was spending his time alone.Allah has also given us accounts of people who moved themselves away from evildoers or hostility in the Quran itself, He also advised the Prophet pbuh to do so whenever he felt overwhelmed or frustrated: نَحنُ نَقُصُّ عَلَيكَ نَبَأَهُم بِالحَقِّ ۚ إِنَّهُم فِتيَةٌ ءامَنوا بِرَبِّهِم وَزِدنٰهُم هُدًىWe relate to thee their story in truth: they were youths who believed in their Lord, and We advanced them in guidance:وَرَبَطنا عَلىٰ قُلوبِهِم إِذ قاموا فَقالوا رَبُّنا رَبُّ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ لَن نَدعُوَا۟ مِن دونِهِ إِلٰهًا ۖ لَقَد قُلنا إِذًا شَطَطًاWe gave strength to their hearts: Behold, they stood up and said: \"Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth: never shall we call upon any god other than Him: if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity!هٰؤُلاءِ قَومُنَا اتَّخَذوا مِن دونِهِ ءالِهَةً ۖ لَولا يَأتونَ عَلَيهِم بِسُلطٰنٍ بَيِّنٍ ۖ فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّنِ افتَرىٰ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا\"These our people have taken for worship gods other than Him: why do they not bring forward an authority clear (and convincing) for what they do? Who doth more wrong than such as invent a falsehood against Allah?وَإِذِ اعتَزَلتُموهُم وَما يَعبُدونَ إِلَّا اللَّهَ فَأوۥا إِلَى الكَهفِ يَنشُر لَكُم رَبُّكُم مِن رَحمَتِهِ وَيُهَيِّئ لَكُم مِن أَمرِكُم مِرفَقًا\"When ye turn away from them and the things they worship other than Allah, betake yourselves to the Cave: Your Lord will shower His mercies on you and disposes of your affair towards comfort and ease.\"Quran 18:13-16Just because certain people are "experts" it doesn't men we should not ponder over opinions.Maybe some people don't care about how long they live, they just want to achieve and find fulfilment.Peace,Your brother Abz

[Urban Turban]

This is so hilarious. And old.

You swell know I didn't disrespect the Quran & Hadith - I called your opinion as bullcrap (I didn't even quote your whole post except only the last part which did not mention Q & S at all) -

but just to win your argument and to digress on the matter - you have accused me of such thing? Astaghfirullah

I can't believe how could you even write that in the same line as Q & S ?!! Inna Lillah..

No wonder Imam Auzai said such people would have a lot of evil in them.

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[Abz2000]

Maybe you mr turban dont understand plain english, and your post shows your desperation, did you understand thr second sentence?

And unless there is a khilafah, there is no consensus

From which I mean the only thing that will exist is a temporary fix, the examples of the four scholars are great as they where honourable people who studied Islam well, nor are they free from error. if you believe otherwise, please provide an authority which is clear and convincing, show me where Allah or His messenger said that the dictates of Islam and the guidance of Allah would end with them.
on who's authority can you tell anyone that they must accept one or the other without taking responsibility for any mistakes yourself? Are you going to be in pledge for their deeds on the day of judgement? I think NOT. I know because Allah has told us so.
You remind me of the ignorant among the children of Israel who decided that it didn't matter that Moses had left Harun in his stead, but that they knew who who was more knowledgable.
If the four imams thought like you do, we wouldn't have even had their examples, they would have been sheep like the rest of your type who are content with sects and labels before their Islam.
I am an x Muslim and your are a y Muslim and he is a z muslim lol.

You either commuted a grave mistake or riddah when you called the verses of the Quran and Hadith "bullcrap" here:

08-11-2013 01:08 PM
Urban Turban
Thread: Why You Should NOT...
oft quoted copy pasted la madhabi bullcrap

Nothing other than the Quran or ibn abbas quote was copy pasted, if you were under my power you would have the opportunity to admit your heedlessness or have your head removed.
And do not think I am incapable of it. I have left the land of kufr for a reason despite its amenities and fast internet - so called "civilisation". Not because I am unwilling to serve or meet my maker (imperfect though I may be).

And it is not for you to tell me who I may or may not isolate myself from as I am not answerable to you, you may go shove your head up your backside if it so pleases you.
I myself have no power over anyone except my family and may Allah separate me from a wrongdoing folk.

Let me give you a Hadith which you can twist to your heart's content:

“Whoever died and he had not Imam, died by death of ignorance”.
sources: Musnad Abi Dawood Al-Tyalsi 259, Saheeh Ibn Habaan 10/434:4573, Mujam Al-Kabeer, Tabarani 19/388:910, Musnad Ahmad 61/5:16434, Sharh Al-Maqaased 4/239.

If it pleases you, ponder on what "Imam" means,
And wonder if you settle for a temporary fix, do you have a baya' on your neck?
Where is he? Will you be able to shift it to one of the four or will you have to say, oh Allah, I had pledged allegiance to the caliph to whom we were required to pledge allegiance.
Even the imams where under the authority of the khulafaa of their time.

I can provide you with evidence for what I say. Provide yours or shut your trap.
You seem like a great azillatun alal kaafireen WA a'izzatun alal mu-mineen, and I like ripping into those types, with no care for the blame of blamers. No remorse.

Peace to those who follow THE guidance.



وَإِذ قالَ اللَّهُ يٰعيسَى ابنَ مَريَمَ ءَأَنتَ قُلتَ لِلنّاسِ اتَّخِذونى وَأُمِّىَ إِلٰهَينِ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ ۖ قالَ سُبحٰنَكَ ما يَكونُ لى أَن أَقولَ ما لَيسَ لى بِحَقٍّ ۚ إِن كُنتُ قُلتُهُ فَقَد عَلِمتَهُ ۚ تَعلَمُ ما فى نَفسى وَلا أَعلَمُ ما فى نَفسِكَ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلّٰمُ الغُيوبِ

And behold! Allah will say: \"O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah\'?\" He will say: \"Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

ما قُلتُ لَهُم إِلّا ما أَمَرتَنى بِهِ أَنِ اعبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبّى وَرَبَّكُم ۚ وَكُنتُ عَلَيهِم شَهيدًا ما دُمتُ فيهِم ۖ فَلَمّا تَوَفَّيتَنى كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقيبَ عَلَيهِم ۚ وَأَنتَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَيءٍ شَهيدٌ

\"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, \'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord\'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

إِن تُعَذِّبهُم فَإِنَّهُم عِبادُكَ ۖ وَإِن تَغفِر لَهُم فَإِنَّكَ أَنتَ العَزيزُ الحَكيمُ
\"If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servants: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise.\"

[Urban Turban]

Abz2000 just proved Imam Auzai [rh] right
- thanks buddy.

when you start to build a new penthouse compassing the edges, you don't drop the plumbline to the middle, you drop it to as near the foundation as possible.apologies for being so non-compliant to what i see as blind disobedience.four opposing opinions are not unanimous in today's day and age, they may have been when travel and communication was restricted. Neither are 3 gods one. Peace.

Comparing schools of thought to sects? And then Christianity? Astaghfirullah.

No time to waste anymore on this.

Period.

[Nur Student]

Please read this carefully.

:bism:

• In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
  
  
  
  
  If they had only referred it to the Prophet, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have tested it from them [direct]. (Qur'an 4:83)
  

Sacred Laws change according to the ages. Indeed, in one age different prophets may come, and they have come. Since subsequent to the Seal of the Prophets, his Greater Shari'a is sufficient for all peoples in every age, no need has remained for different Laws. However, in secondary matters, the need for different schools has remained to a degree. Just as clothes change with the change of the seasons and medicines change according to dispositions, so too, Sacred Laws change according to the ages, and the ordinances change according to the capacities of peoples. Because the secondary matters of the ordinances of the Shari'a look to human circumstances; they come according to them, and are like medicine.

At the time of the early prophets, since man's classes were very distant from one another, and their characters both somewhat coarse, and violent, and their minds, primitive and close to nomadism, the Laws at that time came all in different forms in ways appropriate to their conditions. There were even different prophets and laws in the same continent in the same century. Then, since with the coming of the Prophet of the end of time, man as though advanced from the primary to the secondary stage, and through numerous revolutions and upheavals reached a position at which all the human peoples could receive a single lesson and listen to a single teacher and act in accordance with a single Law, no need remained for different Laws, neither was there necessity for different teachers. But because they were not all at completely the same level and did not proceed in the same sort of social life, the Schools of Law became numerous. If, like students of a school of higher education, the vast majority of mankind were clothed in the same sort of social life and attained the same level, then all the schools could be united. But just as the state of the world does not permit that, so too the Schools of Law cannot be the same.

If you say: The truth is one; how can the different ordinances of the four and twelve schools be true?

The Answer: The same water governs in five different ways in five ill people of different disposition, thus: for one, the water is a cure for his illness, and according to medicine, necessary. For another, it is like poison for his sickness and harmful, and medically prohibited. For another, it causes a small amount of harm, and is reprehensible medically. For another the water is beneficial and without harm; according to medicine that is sunna for him. And for yet another it is neither harmful nor beneficial; he can drink it with good health, and for him it is medically permissible. Thus, here the truth has become numerous; all five are true. Are you able to say: "The water is only a cure, only necessary, and it governs in no other way."

And so, like this, impelled by Divine wisdom, the Divine ordinances change according to the Schools of Law and those who follow them, and they change as truth, and each is true and right. For example, since, in accordance with Divine wisdom and determining, the majority of those who follow Imam Shafi'i are closer to village life and nomadism than the Hanefis, and are lacking in social life, which makes the community like a single body, each recites the Fatiha behind the prayer-leader so as to himself express his pains at the Court of the Dispenser of Needs and utter his private wishes. And this is absolutely right and pure wisdom. However, through most Islamic governments having favored the School of Imam-i A'zam, the great majority of those who follow that School are closer to civilization and town life and more fitted for social life. Thus, the community becomes like a single individual and one man speaks in the name of all; all affirm him with their hearts and bind their hearts to his and his word becomes the word of all; according to the Hanefi School, the Fatiha is not recited behind the prayer-leader. And its not being recited is absolutely right and pure wisdom.

And, for example, since through forming a barrier against the assaults of nature, the Shari'a modifies it and trains the evil-commanding soul, according to the Shafi'i School, most of whose followers are villagers, semi-nomadic, and occupied in manual labour: "Ablutions are spoilt by touching a woman; the slightest uncleanliness is harmful." While according to the Hanefi School, since the great majority of those who participate in it have entered social life and become 'semi-civilized': "Touching women does not spoil the ablutions; there is licence for a small amount of uncleanliness."

And so, we shall consider a manual worker and a gentleman. Due to his craft and the manner of his livelihood, a worker is afflicted with mixing with and being in contact with women who are canonically strangers to him. And, sitting at the same hearth, and being involved with unclean things, nature and his evil-commanding soul find the field empty and may attack him. Therefore, in order to form a barrier against such attacks, the Shari'a states concerning them: "Your ablutions will be spoilt; do not touch the women. Your prayers will be invalid; do not be tainted." A heavenly voice rings in his spiritual ears. Whereas, in accordance with social custom and in the name of common morality, the gentleman – on condition he is honourable – is not afflicted with being in contact with women who are canonically strangers to him, and in the name of cleanliness of civilization, he is not tainted to any degree with unclean things. Therefore, in the Hanefi School, the Shari'a has not shown him harshness and censure; it has shown its permissive side, and lightened it. "If your hand has been touched, your ablutions are not spoilt. If you are ashamed and do not perform the istinja in public, there is no harm in it. A small amount of uncleanliness is permitted." It saves him from scruples. Thus, two drops from the ocean as examples for you. Make analogies with them, and if you can, balance them on the scales of the Shari'a in this way, with the balance of Mizan-i Shârânî.

• Glory be unto You, we have no knowledge save that which You have taught us; indeed You are All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Qur'an 2:32)
  

[Futuwwa]

Abz2000 just proved Imam Auzai [rh] right
- thanks buddy.

Comparing schools of thought to sects? And then Christianity? Astaghfirullah.

No time to waste anymore on this.

Period.

So when you copypaste opinionated articles, we're just supposed to read them and agree with them?

Me, I thought this was a discussion forum, not a copypasta appreciation forum.

[Muhaba]

Please read this carefully.

:bism:

• In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
  
  
  
  
  
  If they had only referred it to the Prophet, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have tested it from them [direct]. (Qur'an 4:83)
  

Sacred Laws change according to the ages. Indeed, in one age different prophets may come, and they have come. Since subsequent to the Seal of the Prophets, his Greater Shari'a is sufficient for all peoples in every age, no need has remained for different Laws. However, in secondary matters, the need for different schools has remained to a degree. Just as clothes change with the change of the seasons and medicines change according to dispositions, so too, Sacred Laws change according to the ages, and the ordinances change according to the capacities of peoples. Because the secondary matters of the ordinances of the Shari'a look to human circumstances; they come according to them, and are like medicine.

At the time of the early prophets, since man's classes were very distant from one another, and their characters both somewhat coarse, and violent, and their minds, primitive and close to nomadism, the Laws at that time came all in different forms in ways appropriate to their conditions. There were even different prophets and laws in the same continent in the same century. Then, since with the coming of the Prophet of the end of time, man as though advanced from the primary to the secondary stage, and through numerous revolutions and upheavals reached a position at which all the human peoples could receive a single lesson and listen to a single teacher and act in accordance with a single Law, no need remained for different Laws, neither was there necessity for different teachers. But because they were not all at completely the same level and did not proceed in the same sort of social life, the Schools of Law became numerous. If, like students of a school of higher education, the vast majority of mankind were clothed in the same sort of social life and attained the same level, then all the schools could be united. But just as the state of the world does not permit that, so too the Schools of Law cannot be the same.

If you say: The truth is one; how can the different ordinances of the four and twelve schools be true?

The Answer: The same water governs in five different ways in five ill people of different disposition, thus: for one, the water is a cure for his illness, and according to medicine, necessary. For another, it is like poison for his sickness and harmful, and medically prohibited. For another, it causes a small amount of harm, and is reprehensible medically. For another the water is beneficial and without harm; according to medicine that is sunna for him. And for yet another it is neither harmful nor beneficial; he can drink it with good health, and for him it is medically permissible. Thus, here the truth has become numerous; all five are true. Are you able to say: "The water is only a cure, only necessary, and it governs in no other way."

And so, like this, impelled by Divine wisdom, the Divine ordinances change according to the Schools of Law and those who follow them, and they change as truth, and each is true and right. For example, since, in accordance with Divine wisdom and determining, the majority of those who follow Imam Shafi'i are closer to village life and nomadism than the Hanefis, and are lacking in social life, which makes the community like a single body, each recites the Fatiha behind the prayer-leader so as to himself express his pains at the Court of the Dispenser of Needs and utter his private wishes. And this is absolutely right and pure wisdom. However, through most Islamic governments having favored the School of Imam-i A'zam, the great majority of those who follow that School are closer to civilization and town life and more fitted for social life. Thus, the community becomes like a single individual and one man speaks in the name of all; all affirm him with their hearts and bind their hearts to his and his word becomes the word of all; according to the Hanefi School, the Fatiha is not recited behind the prayer-leader. And its not being recited is absolutely right and pure wisdom.

And, for example, since through forming a barrier against the assaults of nature, the Shari'a modifies it and trains the evil-commanding soul, according to the Shafi'i School, most of whose followers are villagers, semi-nomadic, and occupied in manual labour: "Ablutions are spoilt by touching a woman; the slightest uncleanliness is harmful." While according to the Hanefi School, since the great majority of those who participate in it have entered social life and become 'semi-civilized': "Touching women does not spoil the ablutions; there is licence for a small amount of uncleanliness."

And so, we shall consider a manual worker and a gentleman. Due to his craft and the manner of his livelihood, a worker is afflicted with mixing with and being in contact with women who are canonically strangers to him. And, sitting at the same hearth, and being involved with unclean things, nature and his evil-commanding soul find the field empty and may attack him. Therefore, in order to form a barrier against such attacks, the Shari'a states concerning them: "Your ablutions will be spoilt; do not touch the women. Your prayers will be invalid; do not be tainted." A heavenly voice rings in his spiritual ears. Whereas, in accordance with social custom and in the name of common morality, the gentleman – on condition he is honourable – is not afflicted with being in contact with women who are canonically strangers to him, and in the name of cleanliness of civilization, he is not tainted to any degree with unclean things. Therefore, in the Hanefi School, the Shari'a has not shown him harshness and censure; it has shown its permissive side, and lightened it. "If your hand has been touched, your ablutions are not spoilt. If you are ashamed and do not perform the istinja in public, there is no harm in it. A small amount of uncleanliness is permitted." It saves him from scruples. Thus, two drops from the ocean as examples for you. Make analogies with them, and if you can, balance them on the scales of the Shari'a in this way, with the balance of Mizan-i Shârânî.

• Glory be unto You, we have no knowledge save that which You have taught us; indeed You are All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Qur'an 2:32)
  

You are wrong. First of all, it's not right to call followers of Shafi uncivilized and followers of Hanafi civilized. Doing so, you are causing discord among the people. Followers of all of them are all civilized.

Second, it is not right to take the various schools of thought as separate religions, stating that if you follow one of them, then you must follow it completely. Nor is it right to follow any one blindly. The original scholars (Shafi, Hanafi, etc) never intended to start separate schools of thoughts. They only derived rulings based on their understanding and knowledge and all of their rulings were derived from hadith of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم thus making that the only source. There is only one religion, which is Islam and we are all Muslims. It's wrong to call a person hanafi or shafiee or some other title. The original scholars went so far as to tell their pupils not to write anything they taught. They were just that: teachers teaching the religion to others. It wasn't their intention to make separate schools of thoughts or to cause divisions among the Ummah.

Everything they stated was derived from one hadith or another. Differences of opinion existed for various reasons. Sometimes one scholar received knowledge of some hadith while another scholar didn't receive knowledge of that hadith, so one of them gave his opinion while the other gave a different opinion. Sometimes different hadith existed on the same matter and each of these scholars took a different hadith and used it to derive their ruling. For example, does ablution break by touching a opposite gender? This doesn't have to do with whether you are civilized or not. Sometimes the effect of the touch may be such that the ablution will have broken. At other times there will be no sexual effect so the ablution won't break. So, if there are differing accounts on this matter, it has to do with the state of mind; it doesn't mean that the rule is one for all conditions.

Another thing that affected different rulings/interpretation from scholars was that they took different types of hadith as evidence. Shafi was more strict regarding the types of hadith he used. He used hadith of only a certain strength.

Finally, rulings of these scholars are not final. Some of their rulings are absolutely wrong and go against Quran and Sunnah. For example, in fiqh hanafi it is stated that you can give alcohol as payment to a zimmi (nonmuslim who lives in the muslim community). His reasoning is that alcohol is a valuable item for the zimmi. But this ruling goes against many hadith. One hadith states that 7 people who deal with alcohol/wine are cursed. In the process of giving the zimmi alcohol as payment, the muslim will fall into at least one of those 7 states and thus be accursed. For example, he will have to acquire the alcohol, directly transfer the alcohol from his own possession to the zimmi or have someone else do it for him, serve the alcohol to the zimmi, etc. This shows that there is no way a muslim can use alcohol to pay another person without becoming cursed. Thus, Hanafi's ruling is incorrect and unislamic. Clinging to wrong rulings without ascertaining whether they are actually correct or not means that the scholar is being taken as one's Lord (lawmaker) just as the Jews and Christians had taken their scholars' rulings as final without question. We cannot take anyone else's words without ascertaining whether they are correct or not. the only person whose commands we can obey blindly are Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم who was the Prophet of Allah. All other human beings are just ordinary humans. If what they say has evidence in Quran and Sunnah we accept them. If not, we dont accept them.

It's not right to say that you have to follow just one of the four schools of thoughts and you can't take something from one and other thing from another. This is because the religion we must follow came to us from Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . We are following Islam and not hanafism or shafi'ism or malikism or hanbalism. Finally, the status of any scholar cannot be equated with Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم who was the final Prophet and Messenger. Before Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم several Prophets came at the same time for different sets of people but Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم is the only Prophet for all people of the world since his time till the end of the world. His sunnah and the Quran are the only things that all people need for guidance. Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم informed us that he was leaving two things behind - the Quran and his Sunnah - and as long as we held onto them both we wouldn't go astray. So, for our guidance these two are enough.

[Nur Student]

First of all, it's not right to call followers of Shafi uncivilized and followers of Hanafi civilized.

Thanks for your reply.

I didn't mean to insult anyone. I myself follow the Shafi school. It is in terms of their lifestyle. Actually, in Arabic, 'medeni' = civilized means those living in cities, opposite of 'badawi'= those living in rural areas. And either we accept it or not, people living in cities are better in terms of acting with the rules of society and civilization.

Second, it is not right to take the various schools of thought as separate religions...

You are absolutely right. And I don't think anybody does that. So whom are you talking to? %90 per cent of the Islamic matters are sound, certain and unchangeable; they are like pillars of Islam and they are the same in all the medhahib (schools), stated clearly either in Qur'an or Hadith. Schools of thought intervene with the rest minor matters, and again they decide according to Kiyas (comparison) or Ijma. They are never meant to be different religions, neither sects. It would be a big mistake to call them this way. But they are mercy (rahmah) and ease for the ummah. And they show how Islam is broad and open to different opinions.

The original scholars (Shafi, Hanafi, etc) never intended to start separate schools of thoughts. They only derived rulings based on their understanding and knowledge and all of their rulings were derived from hadith of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم thus making that the only source. There is only one religion, which is Islam and we are all Muslims. It's wrong to call a person hanafi or shafiee or some other title. The original scholars went so far as to tell their pupils not to write anything they taught. They were just that: teachers teaching the religion to others. It wasn't their intention to make separate schools of thoughts or to cause divisions among the Ummah.

It is not a cause of division among the ummah. I remind the example.

The same water governs in five different ways in five ill people of different disposition, thus: for one, the water is a cure for his illness, and according to medicine, necessary. For another, it is like poison for his sickness and harmful, and medically prohibited. For another, it causes a small amount of harm, and is reprehensible medically. For another the water is beneficial and without harm; according to medicine that is sunna for him. And for yet another it is neither harmful nor beneficial; he can drink it with good health, and for him it is medically permissible. Thus, here the truth has become numerous; all five are true. Are you able to say: "The water is only a cure, only necessary, and it governs in no other way."

For example, does ablution break by touching a opposite gender? This doesn't have to do with whether you are civilized or not. Sometimes the effect of the touch may be such that the ablution will have broken. At other times there will be no sexual effect so the ablution won't break. So, if there are differing accounts on this matter, it has to do with the state of mind; it doesn't mean that the rule is one for all conditions.

The Islamic rules are not based on temporary moods or states of mind but they are based on for the sake of majority in general. So, once they are established, we have to stick to them. For instance, if we follow the Shafi school, we can't say that "Today I feel ok, so I can touch the women/men and the next day not." This then will cause real division both within that person and among ummah. And if nobody heeds any school but everybody acts according to their own understanding of Hadith, then there will be different Islams to the number of individuals.

Finally, nobody shall tell that following those great scholars is blindness or that we are not sheep but can have our own thoughts. We can think and reflect on many things, but when it comes to the matters of Fiqh, we should be very careful. It is not a field where everybody can have his/her own opinion. Well, whenever we memorize the whole Qura'n and as much hadith as those Great Imams (hundreds of thousands), and understand them very well, and study the religion completely, and spent all our life on the path of Islam seeking God's pleasure with a perfect taqwa and righteousness, and have a sound reasoning as good as that of those Imams in understanding Allah's commands and will, then maybe we can make ichtihads of our own. And before doing that, we still need to think about what the Prophet (saw) foretold about some of the Imams.

The Prophet (saw) said, according to an authentic narration "Were religion to be hung on the Pleiades, men from Persia would reach and lay hold of it," (1) indicating that matchless scholars and saints like Abu Hanifa would emerge from Iran. In addition, he foretold Imam Shafi'i, saying, "A scholar from Quraish who will fill all regions of the earth with learning." (2)


According to an authentic narration he said "My nation will be divided into seventy-three sects, and only one among them will attain salvation He was asked, "Who are they?" He replied, "Those who follow me and my Companions," (3) meaning the People of the Sunna and Community.

And all the four madhahib are following exactly the Sunna.

Dipnot-1 Bukhari, al-Tafsir, 62; Tirmidhi, 47; Tafsir Sura, 3.

Dipnot-2 al-‘Ajluni Kashf al-Khafa’, ii, 53, 54.

Dipnot-3 Abu Da’ud, Sunna, 1; Ibn Maja, Fitan, 17; Tirmidhi, Iman, 18; Musnad, ii, 232; iii, 120, 148; ‘Ali al-Qari, Sharh al-Shifa’, i, 679.