from a few days ago in Egypt-- enjoy

[faithandpeace]

It is important to understand that while we Muslims may live in every part of the world (such as in my case living in the U.S.), we are all one ummah. I do feel that in many of our local communities we are being conditioned to think in more nationalistic terms that what happens to other Muslims in another country is somehow a separate issue from what may be happening in our own community. We should never feel disconnected from one another due to distance. What happened in Egypt on 14 August 2013 has deeply affected me including the slaughter of Asma el-Beltagi. It is imperative that we continue to educate ourselves on what is happening in our ummah both locally and globally and not become disconnected due to the illusion of distance or national allegiance. Our national allegiance is to the ummah.

[جوري]

we are all one ummah

Right you're sis!

Al-Hujurat [49:10]

إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِخْوَةٌ فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَ أَخَوَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

Innama almuminoona ikhwatun faaslihoo bayna akhawaykum waittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona

49:10 The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy.

[جوري]

if you still don't think this is an all out war against Islam and don't believe how heavily infiltrated Zionists are in our societies then enjoy this:
the first elected Islamic president who is a hafith of the Quran is being tried by this christian for what crimes, well they're working on concocting them but the headlines read conspiring with hamas and Israel.. interesting I thought those two entities are a natural enemy?

it was also the dog tawdrus that removed him.. and now tawdrus and literally B movie wh0res are writing the constitution!

As Imam ibn Tymiah said, he who doesn't speak the truth is a muted devil.
If a part of the ummah is falling apart and another portion is falling apart, then we're collectively falling apart, so what will move you? show your solidarity in anyway you can, and the lowest form is showing distaste in your heart if you're incapable of nothing else not even writing!

[جوري]

so now you know where your tax money goes!!

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[جوري]

Here's Egyptian liberalism.. enjoy as they dance over the bodies of the dead and find it entertaining!

[faithandpeace]

May Allah (swt) destroy the wicked oppressors and supporters. Ameen! Even if all we can do is hate it in our hearts, then we must do that and never give up. There is nothing in this situation to be "balanced," negotiated, or appealed. The enemy is obvious. We as Muslims need to remain vigilant wherever we are located to protect us from everything from Shaytan's whispers to open attacks on our deen to oppression and violence against our ummah. And Allah (swt) knows best.

[جوري]

Asmaa's family speaking about the targeting and loss of their daughter.. of course her father is taken as political prisoner so.. anyways that's how it is

[Mustafa2012]

so now you know where your tax money goes!!

:salam:

It's nice to see men of reason voicing their concerns about the massacre in Eqypt.

During Mubarak's reign, people were persecuted for practising their religion openly. Some were tortured. Some mosques were shut for Fajr prayers. The practise of Islaam was being supressed. Not sure how much he was directly responsible but there were many reports of these things.

After those protesters were shot and killed and he was forced to resign, a large number of his goons loyal to him with support from their allies in the West, made sure that the president that comes after him would not succeed.

This coup was an organized effort to suppress Islaam in Eqypt, plain and simple.

The people who campaign for human rights around the world were surprisingly quiet during this mass murder campaign.

[جوري]

the world were surprisingly quiet during this mass murder campaign.

according to them it never happened, or the brotherhood killed themselves and others then torched themselves and others and the cause of death which their families were forced to sign on was suicide.. apparently some even shot themselves as many as three times in the head and chest for that.

[faithandpeace]

according to them it never happened, or the brotherhood killed themselves and others then torched themselves and others and the cause of death which their families were forced to sign on was suicide.. apparently some even shot themselves as many as three times in the head and chest for that.

I wonder how they plan on covering for those lies on the Last Day.

[جوري]

here they're today dragging more women to jail for protesting, they've made some niqabis naked today.
http://www.twsela.com/?p=19286

they obviously don't believe in God or judgement at all but let me tell you one guy who said that if God came down he'd put him jail astghfor Allah, his name is Hamzah something, he had the worst four hour death you can imagine he was impaled in his car a horrible accident and they could do nothing for him but what him die slowly.. in shaa Allah when i find the pic of his death I'll post it, so he'll be an example to those who never take heed!

[جوري]

there he is and may the others like him follow suit in this life and the worst of hell in the here after Allahoumma ameen

http://uagenius.blogspot.com/2013/10/Bassiouny.html hamza elbasyoony was his name!

[Mustafa2012]

Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon.

What an ignorant man to say something like that and what a way to die. I don't think it's a co-incidence that he died in this way.

Aa'oodhu billahi min dhalik.

[faithandpeace]

here they're today dragging more women to jail for protesting, they've made some niqabis naked today.
http://www.twsela.com/?p=19286

they obviously don't believe in God or judgement at all but let me tell you one guy who said that if God came down he'd put him jail astghfor Allah, his name is Hamzah something, he had the worst four hour death you can imagine he was impaled in his car a horrible accident and they could do nothing for him but what him die slowly.. in shaa Allah when i find the pic of his death I'll post it, so he'll be an example to those who never take heed!

Put Allah (swt) in "jail?" That is an ignorant statement for someone to make! As to his method of death had a believer been put through those circumstances, he likely would have used those four hours wisely as a final opportunity to repent to Allah (swt). While instinctually we consider the process of dying to be unpleasant and frightening, a Muslim will consider it a normal process in Allah's (swt) creation and should have no fear insha'Allah.

[faithandpeace]

:salam:

It's nice to see men of reason voicing their concerns about the massacre in Eqypt.

During Mubarak's reign, people were persecuted for practising their religion openly. Some were tortured. Some mosques were shut for Fajr prayers. The practise of Islaam was being supressed. Not sure how much he was directly responsible but there were many reports of these things.

After those protesters were shot and killed and he was forced to resign, a large number of his goons loyal to him with support from their allies in the West, made sure that the president that comes after him would not succeed.

This coup was an organized effort to suppress Islaam in Eqypt, plain and simple.

The people who campaign for human rights around the world were surprisingly quiet during this mass murder campaign.

They don't want to "suppress" Islam, they want to completely eradicate it and "exterminate" all Muslims who make submission to Allah (swt) their purpose in life. They want no niqab or hijab, no wudu or salat, and no Qur'an or hadith. What they want instead are dumbed-down mindless capitalist consumers of entertainment who submit solely to their animalistic desires and to those who facilitate the materialistic consumption process. If any semblance of Islam were to remain in their dream nation, they would want it restricted to Ramadan and Eid sales and bargains, masjids to be treated as works of art and architecture to be converted into historical museums, and Islamic texts and scholarship to be treated as cultural history, myth, and legend.

There are certain political, economic, and cultural systems in the world that need to die. You know which ones those are.

[جوري]

Put Allah (swt) in "jail?" That is an ignorant statement for someone to make! As to his method of death had a believer been put through those circumstances, he likely would have used those four hours wisely as a final opportunity to repent to Allah (swt). While instinctually we consider the process of dying to be unpleasant and frightening, a Muslim will consider it a normal process in Allah's (swt) creation and should have no fear insha'Allah.

An-Nisa [4:18]

وَلَيْسَتِ التَّوْبَةُ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السَّيِّئَاتِ حَتَّى إِذَا حَضَرَ أَحَدَهُمُ الْمَوْتُ قَالَ إِنِّي تُبْتُ الآنَ وَلاَ الَّذِينَ يَمُوتُونَ وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ أُوْلَـئِكَ أَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا

Walaysati alttawbatu lillatheena yaAAmaloona alssayyiati hatta itha hadara ahadahumu almawtu qala innee tubtu alana wala allatheena yamootoona wahum kuffarun olaika aAAtadna lahum AAathaban aleeman

4:18 Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Againsts those who say that this fight isnt against islam, and this mainly directing against independent and some others, think again:

[faithandpeace]

Assalamu alaikum.

We Muslims need to become more organized. There are around 1.7 billion of us and in many cases we can't even communicate with each other effectively within our own masjids let alone come together to establish the Khilafa. I'm not sure how compromised Ikhwan/MB is but that does not make everyone in the ummah powerless and helpless regardless of where we are located. Change starts on the smallest level. I am rather disappointed in some aspects of my local Muslim community mainly being that while dedicated brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in Egypt and countless more on a consistent basis in Syria, our khutbas and halaqas are talking about wudu and salat, matters of the heart, time management, and environmentalism. Picnics, potlucks, dinners, and other social events are routinely organized yet it is made quite obvious and clear that any political discussion of any kind related to what is going on in the ummah is to be muted. That is not Islam. While I certainly think those topics and social events do have a place in Islam, they are certainly not to be a replacement for the larger more serious issues. It is not just infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. It seems as if plenty of "Muslims" are hard at work at this too. Clearly there is something going on and I don't like it. Any Muslim who can't see how clearly there is a worldwide war against Islam underway is clearly clueless in my opinion. Yet the biggest elephant in the room is what nobody seems to wish to discuss. Even this discussion board has become much quieter over the past two months. I am not advocating that Muslims in America take to the streets in violent riots over what is happening to our brothers and sisters overseas. But there needs to be some very serious dialogue going on in our local Muslim communities. I don't think I am the only one who is experiencing this suspicious silence. The truth is the truth and we should be fearing what Allah (swt) is thinking, not what Fox News or Homeland Security is thinking. It really is a sad state of affairs and it is up to us to change it insha'Allah.

[Independent]

Againsts those who say that this fight isnt against islam, and this mainly directing against independent and some others, think again:

With regard to the anti-islamic Lord Curzon quote you give - I believe it to be fabricated - can you give a source?

I know it's everywhere on Islamic websites but they are just repeating each other.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Its not fabricated

http://www.theshieldnewsletter.com/?p=203

http://www.essay.uk.com/free-management-essays/islamic-khilafa.php

Quotes from bush, cheney and rumsfeld reflecting the statement of Lord curzon, its a war against muslim unity and the prevention of a caliphate.

[Independent]

Its not fabricated

http://www.theshieldnewsletter.com/?p=203

http://www.essay.uk.com/free-managem...ic-khilafa.php

These are not sources, there are examples of those sites who repeat the quote without attempting to check out its provenance. (The Shield also has a false quote from Bernard Shaw I've come across before.)

You can find any number of Islamic-related sites that repeat this quote but none of them give a proper source. Some of them claim Curzon said this in a speech in Parliament (although they don't give a date and not all the quotes are the same as each other). But there is no reference to it in Hansard (the official record of Parliamentary activities) which means it's not true.

I see that others have searched for a source for this quote too, and concluded it's a fake.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

An update

Brotherhood trials stoke security fears

Pro-Morsi lawyers and analysts question whether a fair trial is possible for ousted Egyptian president.

Cairo, Egypt - A little more than four months ago, Mohamed Morsi was president of the Arab Republic of Egypt.

The nation's ministers, after being chauffeur-driven through the gates of the Presidential Palace, would conduct meetings with their head of state in one of his lofty briefing rooms. The man himself commanded the attention of leaders around the globe.

But after being toppled by his own generals on July 3 and whisked into solitary confinement, Morsi today faces a trial that could eventually lead to his execution. Thousands of his supporters have been rounded up by the security services, while the Muslim Brotherhood is being subjected to one of the most relentless campaigns of oppression in its long history. The military, say observers, may be hoping to drive a final nail into the Brotherhood's coffin by using today's trial to finish off its most high-profile political martyr. "It is the government's dream to end the organisation," said Bahey el-Din Hassan, head of the Cairo Institute For Human Rights.

But Morsi's supporters say the former president - who once stood in Tahrir Square surrounded by sunglass-wearing security men, and bared his chest to prove he was not afraid of an assassin's bullet - is the victim of a show trial.

Despite being drastically weakened by a campaign of arrests and detentions, they have vowed to oppose courtroom proceedings by continuing their weekly street protests. Like a Nile River mosquito buzzing through the officers' mess, the Brotherhood has become a nuisance to the military that refuses to go away - however hard the authorities try to swat it.

"The revolution will continue until we have realised our democracy," said Muslim Brotherhood-supporting journalist Hassan al-Kabary, speaking to Al Jazeera.

Security fears

Morsi and other top Brotherhood officials are charged with inciting violence that led to the killing of protesters outside the Presidential Palace last December. The former president hasn't been seen in public since being detained. Right up until the eve of the trial, the authorities had still not confirmed exactly where proceedings would be taking place - a state of affairs that may have resulted from the considerable security operation surrounding the case. It later emerged it would happen inside a police academy in the capital Cairo.

Nor has anyone announced whether the proceedings would be televised, as they were during former president Hosni Mubarak's trial. The former president is being tried alongside 14 other Brotherhood members, including high-profile leaders Mohammed el-Beltagi and Essam el-Erian. Some 20,000 police officers were drafted to provide security, according to officials. A statement was also released by the authorities saying any attempt by protesters to approach the courtroom would be met with a severe response.

Given the determination of Morsi's supporters to mount of show of street power, there is a serious danger of clashes erupting.

"Democracy is on trial and the people's voice is on trial," said Omar Gaber, a Brotherhood member from Zagazig, Morsi's hometown. "We will protest to put pressure on the military and the government to abide by the law."

But any overwhelming displays of dissent are likely to be met in brutal fashion if they happen to get too close to the courthouse. Human Rights Watch has released a report on a demonstration last month in which security forces killed 57 mainly Islamist protesters

The rights group condemned Egypt's authorities for failing to investigate the attacks, which occurred when Morsi supporters mounted an anti-government rally during the annual October 6 commemoration of Egypt's last war with Israel.

It seems likely security forces will respond as they did last month if pro-Morsi rallies get out of hand. But of perhaps equal concern to the former president's allies is whether the deposed leader can hope to get a fair trial.

Guilty verdict?

Egypt's current government - led by an interim president propped up on by the military - now faces a problem: How to mount a credible case when your political authority rests upon a guilty verdict? Under these heavily politicised circumstances, where an acquittal for Morsi would invalidate the actions of the army, some analysts have suggested the former president cannot hope to receive a fair trial.

Emad el-Din Shahin, a Cairo-based politics professor, questioned the circumstances surrounding Morsi's detention and also the procedural issues related to the case. He noted that according to Egypt's 2012 constitution - which was widely rejected by the country's non-Islamist political forces - the former president has not been removed from power legally. He also said, given the charges against Morsi relating to the killing of protesters last year, that the Minister of the Interior at the time should also be in the dock. The fact that he is not, said Shahin, suggests that justice is being "selective."

“This is the environment he is going to be tried in,” said Shahin.

Mohamed al-Damaty is a spokesman for a team of lawyers attempting to observe the proceedings on Morsi’s behalf. He said of the 25 attorneys volunteering, only five received permits to enter the court. Some 7,000 pages of court files requested weeks earlier were only received Sunday night, Damaty said. Shahin said many of the people who had supported the military’s intervention on July 3 were now beginning to regret it. Even if that is the case, there are nevertheless huge numbers of people who do not regret it.

General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, Egypt's army chief, is massively popular on the streets, in no small part because of his role in the crackdown against the Muslim Brotherhood over the past three months.

The fate of Bassem Youssef - the Egyptian satirist whose show was cancelled on Friday by his bosses after only its first episode - shows why many of the country's most influential figures are also reluctant to question the military's ascendency.

Some argue that, in a broader sense for the country, the trial of Morsi and other Brotherhood leaders will not influence the current political climate. According to US-based Egypt analyst Nathan Brown, the trials won't upend the political "roadmap" that was laid out for the masses following his ouster.

Even if Egyptian justice was guilty of being selective, the system had checks in place that meant individual cases could be processed effectively, said Brown.

"The Brotherhood is clearly not going to be an electoral political actor for the present, and the trial will not change that," he said. "The 'roadmap' is going ahead regardless of what happens with Morsi."

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/brotherhood-trials-stoke-security-fears-201311472424333970.html

[Jedi_Mindset]

These are not sources, there are examples of those sites who repeat the quote without attempting to check out its provenance. (The Shield also has a false quote from Bernard Shaw I've come across before.)

You can find any number of Islamic-related sites that repeat this quote but none of them give a proper source. Some of them claim Curzon said this in a speech in Parliament (although they don't give a date and not all the quotes are the same as each other). But there is no reference to it in Hansard (the official record of Parliamentary activities) which means it's not true.

I see that others have searched for a source for this quote too, and concluded it's a fake.

Even if its fake, the west hides by fighting islam claiming they fight 'terrorists' while the other side publicly express their will to fight for muslim unity and caliphate and get rid of the US bases/interests in the region. Bush stated that he fight militants who want to set up a islamic caliphate, yet he says that the caliphate/unity idea is extremism while it is in the qu'ran and which every muslim should strive for. Lord Curzon's statements may be fabricated however i do see it happening in the last 60 years. Every ruler who spoke out against israel, US or spoke about muslim unity has been overthrown, toppled or killed.

Morsi the latest example.

[Independent]

Even if its fake

Not only is it a fake, but it's one of many. Islamic related sites are littered with similarly unattributable quotes from prominent figures. Who is writing them? They don't happen by accident.

Once a quote like this is picked up by one Islamic site, it's swiftly copied across any number of others. Eventually it convinces simply because it's in so many places. Many similar quotes have been around for decades without anyone checking provenance. They say what people want to believe - because that's why they were written.

[جوري]

Assalamu alaikum.

We Muslims need to become more organized. There are around 1.7 billion of us and in many cases we can't even communicate with each other effectively within our own masjids let alone come together to establish the Khilafa. I'm not sure how compromised Ikhwan/MB is but that does not make everyone in the ummah powerless and helpless regardless of where we are located. Change starts on the smallest level. I am rather disappointed in some aspects of my local Muslim community mainly being that while dedicated brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in Egypt and countless more on a consistent basis in Syria, our khutbas and halaqas are talking about wudu and salat, matters of the heart, time management, and environmentalism. Picnics, potlucks, dinners, and other social events are routinely organized yet it is made quite obvious and clear that any political discussion of any kind related to what is going on in the ummah is to be muted. That is not Islam. While I certainly think those topics and social events do have a place in Islam, they are certainly not to be a replacement for the larger more serious issues. It is not just infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. It seems as if plenty of "Muslims" are hard at work at this too. Clearly there is something going on and I don't like it. Any Muslim who can't see how clearly there is a worldwide war against Islam underway is clearly clueless in my opinion. Yet the biggest elephant in the room is what nobody seems to wish to discuss. Even this discussion board has become much quieter over the past two months. I am not advocating that Muslims in America take to the streets in violent riots over what is happening to our brothers and sisters overseas. But there needs to be some very serious dialogue going on in our local Muslim communities. I don't think I am the only one who is experiencing this suspicious silence. The truth is the truth and we should be fearing what Allah (swt) is thinking, not what Fox News or Homeland Security is thinking. It really is a sad state of affairs and it is up to us to change it insha'Allah.

The problem as I see it and a small microcosm of it on this forum is people converting to Islam and they haven't a clue of its basic tenets. I don't know how one can organize against that. When you have a defined enemy it is good and understandable .. the problem has always been of the enemy from within, the one most can't recognize.. and it is precisely why the scholar Ibn Taymiyaah stated, have one 'bullet' for your enemy and nine for the traitors within..

at any rate now we know what John Kerry was doing in Egypt..

[faithandpeace]

It is against our religion to knowingly tell lies so if Muslims are purposely creating fake stories then they are committing sins.

[جوري]

essentially that is the plan of the sykes picot agreement whether troll like individuals mouth out the words or carry it out in deeds it is all the same in the end!

[سيف الله]

Salaam

essentially that is the plan of the sykes picot agreement whether troll like individuals mouth out the words or carry it out in deeds it is all the same in the end!

Yes, Independent misses the point with laser like intensity. For what its worth if he wants a different to attempt to understand why certain Western powers are so obsessed with controlling the fate of the Middle East, heres a good place to start.

Anyway found this lecture on the current situation in Egypt, worth a listen.

[جوري]

I skip over his posts completely. It is like being dragged down by a rotted rope when the hills ahead are already steep!

[Independent]

Independent misses the point with laser like intensity.

Actually I was specifically asked to reply to a certain quote, and I replied to it specifically. With a laser like quality if you wish to be flattering.

For me, it would be worrying why there are so many faked quotes with regards to conspiracy theories and Islamic related subjects. it would seem they only trouble you if they're on the wrong side?

to attempt to understand why certain Western powers are so obsessed with controlling the fate of the Middle East, heres a good place to start.

Thank you for the reading list. Which chapter was it you wanted me to read? The one where he condemns the Armenian genocide? Or would you prefer us to skip that one?

[جوري]

it would seem they only trouble you

If you're persistently here I'd say it is more troubling to you than any of us.. Thanks for consistently allowing us into your disturbed psyche!

best,

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu alaikum.

.....I am rather disappointed in some aspects of my local Muslim community mainly being that while dedicated brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in Egypt and countless more on a consistent basis in Syria, our khutbas and halaqas are talking about wudu and salat, matters of the heart, time management, and environmentalism. Picnics, potlucks, dinners, and other social events are routinely organized yet it is made quite obvious and clear that any political discussion of any kind related to what is going on in the ummah is to be muted. That is not Islam. While I certainly think those topics and social events do have a place in Islam, they are certainly not to be a replacement for the larger more serious issues.

It is not just infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. It seems as if plenty of "Muslims" are hard at work at this too. Clearly there is something going on and I don't like it. Any Muslim who can't see how clearly there is a worldwide war against Islam underway is clearly clueless in my opinion. Yet the biggest elephant in the room is what nobody seems to wish to discuss. Even this discussion board has become much quieter over the past two months. I am not advocating that Muslims in America take to the streets in violent riots over what is happening to our brothers and sisters overseas. But there needs to be some very serious dialogue going on in our local Muslim communities. I don't think I am the only one who is experiencing this suspicious silence. The truth is the truth and we should be fearing what Allah (swt) is thinking, not what Fox News or Homeland Security is thinking. It really is a sad state of affairs and it is up to us to change it insha'Allah.

:wa: sister,

I agree that our respected ulema and scholars in our communities can do more in bringing focus to the calamities that our brothers and sisters are enduring around the world.
The question is: How should the rest of the muslims (that is us), actually respond to situations such as in Egypt, Syria, etc.

Earlier this year, I wrote to our local fatwa committee, asking for advice regarding our roles in these situations, and in particular, when physical jihad becomes obligatory upon muslims who are not part of these war-stricken areas. This was my reply:

Respected Brother/Sister in Islam
As Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

Haamidaw wa Musalliyaa

Your query below refers;

The rules of Jihaad apply to those areas where Jihaad is taking place according to the Shariah. Such people should refer to their local Ulama.


We make dua that Allah Ta’ala assist those Muslims in distress and who are oppressed and alleviate their plight.


And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Was Salaam



Fatwa Committee

_________________________________________________
Darul Ihsan Islamic Services Centre
Website: http://www.darulihsan.com/
Email:fatwa@darulihsan.com

^ I think that it is important for us to realize that the numerous conflicts that are currently taking place, are not necessarily considered by senior and respected ulema as being jihad/ struggle in the path of Allah.
In fact, the ulema from these affected countries themselves, have not declared such (to my limited knowledge).
If we take this into consideration, then we start to view our current calamities from a political lens - rather than an islamic one.

In other words, while we agree that Islam itself is being targetted by the west, from many points of view - what becomes more important in this context, is OUR reaction to this onslaught.

Islam may be the strongest that it has ever been in its history, in numbers......but when it comes to our strength in imaan, our taqwa/ consciousness of Allah - we are the weakest.
Which is why our khutbahs and halaqas will continue to discuss and spend more time focussing on: salaah, wudhu, matters of the heart, etc - and rightly so.

If we consider, that before the sahaba (ra) could take to the fore-fronts of defending Islam (on the battlefields), the love for Allah (subhanawataála) and His rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) was so strong in their hearts. There was love for every command of Allah - such that, as soon as a new verse/ prohibition was revealed to the messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), they were willing to make a change immediately - no second thoughts.

What is the condition of the ummah now, in comparison?

While it is indeed important to investigate and speak about the reasons for our current affairs - it is also important, if not more so, to strive in reforming our hearts.
Unfortunately, there are many muslims who wish to by-pass this stage of islaah (reformation) and purification of the heart - in preference to getting more involved in the worldly scheme of things.
^ Again, this is important - but without losing the balance, and losing focus on the real goal for our individual lives.
-> Remember, the first aspect of ibaadah that we will be accountable for on the day of qiyamaat, will be our salaah.

In shaa Allah, I hope that this is one of the reasons as to why the board is relatively quieter recently - perhaps our brothers and sister are focussing on their ibaadat and their relationship with Allah, and making efforts to be of benefit to the ummah in a more direct manner....

There is lots that we can do from our side - e.g.
- Strive with your wealth - by contributing to the numerous charities and relief-funds,
- Strive physically - if you are a brother and have the means to do so - perhaps join those groups who are going out to deliver medical supplies, food, etc to those in need,
- Make abundant duaa for those who are facing all forms of trials around the world (be sincere, place yourself in their shoes, shed some tears and beg of Allah on their behalf).

And to remember:


"...Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in their hearts....." (Quran 13:11)



:wa:

[faithandpeace]

The problem as I see it and a small microcosm of it on this forum is people converting to Islam and they haven't a clue of its basic tenets. I don't know how one can organize against that. When you have a defined enemy it is good and understandable .. the problem has always been of the enemy from within, the one most can't recognize.. and it is precisely why the scholar Ibn Taymiyaah stated, have one 'bullet' for your enemy and nine for the traitors within..

at any rate now we know what John Kerry was doing in Egypt..

We can't know what is in people's hearts, only Allah (swt) knows that. However, we can look at people's speech and actions. It is possible that many European American reverts embrace Islam with the intention of finding a husband from the Middle East rather than submission to Allah (swt) being the primary intention. People need to have at least basic knowledge of all aspects of Islam rather than advanced knowledge on a few aspects and no knowledge of other aspects.

At the same time our imams are lecturing us about separating culture from Islam, they are actually injecting culture straight into the community and namely American culture. I see the American culture consumer model very prevalent in the masjids I have been to. Women are welcome to come in wearing skinny jeans and short-sleeve shirts with cleavage and no hijab whatsoever and people are discouraged to advise them on proper dress to avoid "making people feel uncomfortable." Masjids should not be treated as businesses with Muslims as customers. From a consumer capitalist point of view it makes logical sense that "controversial" or politicized topics be avoided by masjid boards and leaders because if the truth hurts someone's feelings they might not come back and then you lose donors (i.e. "customers").

Non-Muslims, new Muslims, and educated Muslims alike who are involved to any degree in the Muslim community should be kept informed on a regular basis by our leaders as to the issues affecting our ummah globally and locally. There simply is no excuse. If people leave the masjid because they do not have the emotional maturity to be able to deal with suffering, death, and tragedy (i.e. when they are shown slides of horrific pictures from Syria for instance) or they are offended because they are advised that some aspects of their dress or behavior may be outside of Islam then it is their choice to leave as "there is no compulsion in religion." I'm not advocating that people have world affairs pounded into them at every moment nor am I advocating bully tactics between Muslims in terms of social pressure to improve in Islam. But we need to be guided proactively and motivated to always educate ourselves more and try harder.

More on this in response to Zaria's post insha'Allah...

[faithandpeace]

:wa: sister,

I agree that our respected ulema and scholars in our communities can do more in bringing focus to the calamities that our brothers and sisters are enduring around the world.
The question is: How should the rest of the muslims (that is us), actually respond to situations such as in Egypt, Syria, etc.

Earlier this year, I wrote to our local fatwa committee, asking for advice regarding our roles in these situations, and in particular, when physical jihad becomes obligatory upon muslims who are not part of these war-stricken areas. This was my reply:

Respected Brother/Sister in Islam
As Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

Haamidaw wa Musalliyaa

Your query below refers;

The rules of Jihaad apply to those areas where Jihaad is taking place according to the Shariah. Such people should refer to their local Ulama.


We make dua that Allah Ta’ala assist those Muslims in distress and who are oppressed and alleviate their plight.


And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Was Salaam



Fatwa Committee

_________________________________________________
Darul Ihsan Islamic Services Centre
Website: http://www.darulihsan.com/
Email:fatwa@darulihsan.com

So the Fatwa committee answered your inquiry but provided no sources from Qur'an or Hadith? If what you quoted from them was the totality of their response, then the fact that no sources were cited is proof of a problem right there. I am not a scholar but I think it is fair to expect people in leadership roles (i.e. imams, leaders of halaqas, masjid committees, etc.) to be competent in being able to back up their decisions, interpretations, and recommendations from Qur'an and Sunnah.

^ I think that it is important for us to realize that the numerous conflicts that are currently taking place, are not necessarily considered by senior and respected ulema as being jihad/ struggle in the path of Allah.
In fact, the ulema from these affected countries themselves, have not declared such (to my limited knowledge).
If we take this into consideration, then we start to view our current calamities from a political lens - rather than an islamic one.

In other words, while we agree that Islam itself is being targetted by the west, from many points of view - what becomes more important in this context, is OUR reaction to this onslaught.

I agree that we must be responsible for our own actions. That may include our own lobbying to replace our ulema with more qualified ulema so that the "masses" are given the information they need to hear as opposed to the information they want to hear. Further, there is no such thing in Islam as issues being heard in a "political lens vs. an Islamic lens." There is NO separation of church and state in Islam, none whatsoever. Either something is Islam or it is not Islam, period.

Islam may be the strongest that it has ever been in its history, in numbers......but when it comes to our strength in imaan, our taqwa/ consciousness of Allah - we are the weakest.
Which is why our khutbahs and halaqas will continue to discuss and spend more time focussing on: salaah, wudhu, matters of the heart, etc - and rightly so.

I certainly feel that salat, wudu, and matters of the heart are extremely important in Islam. But they are not the only things in Islam. We can't just focus on the parts of Islam that are convenient at the time and avoid the parts that are inconvenient because they might make people feel uncomfortable or involve an element of risk.

If we consider, that before the sahaba (ra) could take to the fore-fronts of defending Islam (on the battlefields), the love for Allah (subhanawataála) and His rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) was so strong in their hearts. There was love for every command of Allah - such that, as soon as a new verse/ prohibition was revealed to the messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), they were willing to make a change immediately - no second thoughts.

What is the condition of the ummah now, in comparison?

While it is indeed important to investigate and speak about the reasons for our current affairs - it is also important, if not more so, to strive in reforming our hearts.
Unfortunately, there are many muslims who wish to by-pass this stage of islaah (reformation) and purification of the heart - in preference to getting more involved in the worldly scheme of things.
^ Again, this is important - but without losing the balance, and losing focus on the real goal for our individual lives.
-> Remember, the first aspect of ibaadah that we will be accountable for on the day of qiyamaat, will be our salaah.

In shaa Allah, I hope that this is one of the reasons as to why the board is relatively quieter recently - perhaps our brothers and sister are focussing on their ibaadat and their relationship with Allah, and making efforts to be of benefit to the ummah in a more direct manner....

There is lots that we can do from our side - e.g.
- Strive with your wealth - by contributing to the numerous charities and relief-funds,
- Strive physically - if you are a brother and have the means to do so - perhaps join those groups who are going out to deliver medical supplies, food, etc to those in need,
- Make abundant duaa for those who are facing all forms of trials around the world (be sincere, place yourself in their shoes, shed some tears and beg of Allah on their behalf).

And to remember:


"...Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in their hearts....." (Quran 13:11)



:wa:

The key is balance. All relevant aspects of Islam in any given time or situation should be discussed and focused on. Yet from what I have experienced there is not a balance at all. Words such as "jihad" or "khilafa" or even "sharia" are so rarely mentioned it is almost as if they have become "dirty words." I am sure this is a result of post-9/11 fear of oppression and persecution. At least from my experience though we aren't even being educated at all on Syria or Egypt in my community. The masjids are literally dead silent as if they won't even speak the words "Syria" or "Egypt" almost as if those countries don't even exist. So nobody would know what are proper charities/causes to support or donate to. I'm not seeing anything about the issues on masjid websites, there are no physical handouts, flyers, postcards, etc. with information. Nothing at all. I'm not advocating people do or support illegal activity but I'm also not supporting the castration, emasculation, and total pacification of our ummah either.

Here on IB forums I have learned so much about what is going on in Egypt and Syria complete with dialogue, links to articles, Youtube videos, pictures, audio files, etc. Why are our local masjids completely devoid of any of this? As a matter of fact, we have been told repeatedly not to take information from online. I am not imagining the fact that we are being silenced.

[جوري]

just want to inject some reality into this thread where we're apparently into conspiracy theories.
this photos is from 1903 a Bengali woman carrying her British 'Master'

This is the reality of them and don't you forget it.. of course now they ride you in a different way so it is more politically correct for the time!

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum

So the Fatwa committee answered your inquiry but provided no sources from Qur'an or Hadith? If what you quoted from them was the totality of their response, then the fact that no sources were cited is proof of a problem right there. I am not a scholar but I think it is fair to expect people in leadership roles (i.e. imams, leaders of halaqas, masjid committees, etc.) to be competent in being able to back up their decisions, interpretations, and recommendations from Qur'an and Sunnah.;


I agree that we must be responsible for our own actions. That may include our own lobbying to replace our ulema with more qualified ulema so that the "masses" are given the information they need to hear as opposed to the information they want to hear.

The above reply is the complete response - which, as you have correctly indicated - have 'no sources quoted from Quran and Hadith'.

^ And this is a completely fine, mashaAllah.
The reason why this is an acceptable response from a mufti stems from the following:

If, for example, a person suffers from a serious heart condition. What does he do?
-> He will obviously look for the best, and most qualified cardiologist in his area and consult him for appropriate advise and treatment.
Which means, that from the outset - before even walking into the cardiologists room - he is indirectly saying that: I accept this specialists knowledge, experience and good recommendations in the community, and this is the reason why I have chosen to consult him for this problem.

So, the cardiologist examines the person, and then gives him advice to take certain medications and that he will need a certain operation.
It will be good for the cardiologist to explain the persons medical condition to him, in the best and simplest way possible (for a lay-person to understand).....but if the patient were to ask for 'evidence' behind each and every medication or advice - will this be correct?

Of course not.
Why? Because, firstly the cardiologist will not have the time to do so.
And secondly: His advice is not based on information that he read from one/ two journals. Instead his conclusions are the result of years.....sometimes, decades of learning and experience.
Which means, that if the patient is asking for 'evidence' for each recommendation that is made by the cardiologist - he is actually saying that he does not trust this cardiologists decision (and he wants to verify it himself). It would be understandable if the cardiologist were to say: if you are not happy with my judgement, then you can go elsewhere....

For worldly matters, we may chose to get a 'second opinion'.

But when it comes to matters of deen, the teaching from our elders is that: Once you have chosen to contact a certain aalim (scholar) - it means that you already trust his knowledge and reliability (if not, then why would you contact him?).....and so, once a fatwa is provided, then we accept it, and practice upon it.
(if not, it results in 'shopping for fatwas', and following our desire for an answer that suits our limited understanding).
In this case, I trust the experience and the many, many years of study that this particular mufti has - and while it is possible for me to ask him to explain in more detail (for my own understanding) - it will be incorrect for me to doubt whether or not this fatwa is based on quraan and hadith.

(I realise that this is a long-winded reply, but in shaa Allah, it explains that we hold the knowledge that our elders have with respect and regard in shaa Allah.
Unfortunately, the current trend is for people to read a few articles on a topic, and then think that they are 'experts' in it.
Whereas, the advice of our ulema is based on many years of knowledge and from authentic sources in shaa Allah).

Further, there is no such thing in Islam as issues being heard in a "political lens vs. an Islamic lens." There is NO separation of church and state in Islam, none whatsoever. Either something is Islam or it is not Islam, period.

The point that was being made (and in the muftis reply) is that the civil wars that are currently occurring in many parts of the world, are not regarded as jihad by very many traditional scholars.

I certainly feel that salat, wudu, and matters of the heart are extremely important in Islam. But they are not the only things in Islam. We can't just focus on the parts of Islam that are convenient at the time and avoid the parts that are inconvenient because they might make people feel uncomfortable or involve an element of risk.

The description of the sisters hijab (or lack thereof) at your masjid, is a good example of how much emphasis needs to be placed on reforming peoples hearts and matters of day-to-day ibaadat.

Unfortunately, very often, the ones who want to take to the streets in protest of, for example, insults to the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) and other matters - themselves, bear very little resemblance to his blessed manner.
Which is why, it seems acceptable to become passionate in 'defending islam' - by burning down property and other ways that are in complete contradiction to the teachings of islam......but there is little passion in following the sunnah of the beard, the prophet (saw) dress, men reading their daily salaah in jamaat, etc.
^ This stems from lack of knowledge and true love for the commands of Allah and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam)......but more knowledge and love for worldly affairs.

The key is balance. All relevant aspects of Islam in any given time or situation should be discussed and focused on. Yet from what I have experienced there is not a balance at all. Words such as "jihad" or "khilafa" or even "sharia" are so rarely mentioned it is almost as if they have become "dirty words." I am sure this is a result of post-9/11 fear of oppression and persecution. At least from my experience though we aren't even being educated at all on Syria or Egypt in my community. The masjids are literally dead silent as if they won't even speak the words "Syria" or "Egypt" almost as if those countries don't even exist. So nobody would know what are proper charities/causes to support or donate to. I'm not seeing anything about the issues on masjid websites, there are no physical handouts, flyers, postcards, etc. with information. Nothing at all. I'm not advocating people do or support illegal activity but I'm also not supporting the castration, emasculation, and total pacification of our ummah either.

The fiqh of jihad is a topic for itself (which is best held by those who possess true knowledge in this field)....
However, as mentioned above, many imaams and scholars do not view the current wars as a form of jihad.

It is best that we take our cues in these matters from our ulema (and not small factions within the community), and in shaa Allah, we will safe-guard ourselves from falling into error (remember, we are living in a time when there will be much division within our ummah. Many people will be saying many different things.
For us, as simple muslims to ensure that we remain on the straight path in shaa Allah, it is best to stick close to those knowledgeable and trustworthy in our communities).

I dont think it would be easy to extrapolate what is happening at your masjid to everywhere else (even within your region)....

In my area, our imaams and other muslim leaders do speak of the calamities in other parts of the world, by means of:
- Duaa that is made in congregation.
- Some time ago, our local masjid held a night of prayer and zikr for the victims of egypt and syria
- Our local jamiat does discuss global affairs on their website. This is their link: http://jamiat.org.za/blog/category/news/
- Our local islamic radio stations holds many discussions about what is going on in many parts of the world.
- I constantly receive emails and sms alerts requesting donations for various relief projects: e.g. Gift of the Givers, Al Imdaad Foundation, etc (we just need to look out for reputable organisations and in shaa Allah, we can do our part - even if it is very small).

In other words, we may not find our imaams directly calling for support towards one group or another (as it is becoming increasingly difficult to identify who are the actual enemies to islam and who are not).
They hold positions of great responsibility in their respective communities, and so, there does need to be caution before passing any verdicts - that is often based on incomplete information, and for which, they will be held accountable for in the aakhirah.
(e.g. while Bassad is indeed a tyrant, there are also problems within the rebel groups as well......it really is not as clear as we would hope it to be).

But, at least in my part of the world, and I hope in many others, there are some attempts being made (no doubt, there is always room for improvement), to call the community to remember, make duaa for and support our brothers and sisters in all parts of the globe.


:wa:

[Independent]

As you will know, I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories. But Egypt is a different matter.

Did the military and police help to engineer the fall of Morsi by allowing crime and disorder on the streets and disrupting the economy? They certainly had strong motive. The Egyptian military has some highly unusual features that don't get much notice in the media. Over a period of decades they have increased their involvement in Egyptian commerce to the point when they now manage a large sector of the civilian economy:

As much as one-third of Egypt's economy is under military control, says Joshua Stacher, an Egyptian-military expert and assistant professor at Kent State University in Ohio. Revenues from military companies are a state secret, along with the armed forces budget, he says.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...7012945891.htm

Morsi made no move against military commercial interests during his short time in office. But perhaps the military saw that it was only a matter of time before he did.

The surprising thing is not that the generals might have wanted to act to preserve their honeypot. What’s remarkable is that the ordinary rank and file went along with it. Normally a conscript army like Egypt’s is useless for internal repression, because the loyalties of the troops can’t be trusted. (Which is why dictators like Saddam and Gadaffi had elite regiments separate from the regular army.)

Yet in the overthrow of Morsi, and in the riots afterwards, the army as a whole showed itself willing to act against the Brotherhood even to the point of shooting demonstrators. There were no reports of army defections and mutiny, as has occurred in Syria. It’s a testament to Morsi’s huge unpopularity outside his core Brotherhood support that the army obeyed their orders.

The generals knew that Mubarack lacked support and that’s why they stood aside. Similarly, they guessed right that Morsi was just as unpopular after a few short months, so he too could be dispensed with.

What they can’t magic away is the ongoing crisis in Egypt’s economy which has worsened with each stage of the revolution.

[جوري]

Mursi is hugely popular not just in Egypt but the world over the protests for him everyday are massive - I go to weekly protests in weekends before the Egyptian mission and the UN and for the small number of expats out here the numbers never decline in spite of rain or special occasions or weather and those in Egypt are frightening - precisely why Ashton goes there followed by Kerry to try to first give credence to the coup and support the dunces running it as the old fossils can't think for themselves they've been reared by Israel's camp David and the money they receive to support it - they try to invest in the Russian side to get another super power's recognition but the cash cow from the gulf state is on the decline and it's the coup generals that are highly unpopular!
Try to get your news from multiple sources and use those noodles I know it's hard but you can't receive an enema then release all the time we too can shop for news - what news is accurate well those with interests aren't gonna be the one drafting a truthful picture!

[Independent]

Mursi is hugely popular not just in Egypt but the world

You can delude yourself as much as you like, but if the support was what you say, the army could not have acted and he would still be in power.

Of course, the situation could easily change back in Morsi's favour. He has every chance of ending up far more popular as a victim than he was as a commander. And it's the army who will now get blamed for the wreck of the economy, not Morsi.

precisely why Ashton goes there followed by Kerry to try to first give credence to the coup and support the dunces running it as the old fossils can't think for themselves they've been reared by Israel's camp David and the money they receive to support it - they try to invest in the Russian side to get another super power's recognition but the cash cow from the gulf state

You misread the situation totally before the coup when you said the rank and file of the army would never move against Morsi. And you're just as wrong now. The coup was a bad outcome for the US. Although they had no reason to like the Brotherhood, in practice Morsi was abiding by the same general foreign policy as Mubarack.

It was predicted that the Brotherhood would win the first election, because of their better funding and organisation. It was even more predicatable that Morsi would have lost the next one, had the army not intervened. This would have been a dream result for the US of far, far greater value than anything a lousy military dictatorship can possibly deliver.

Whatever short term shadenfreude some US policymakers might feel for the misfortunes of the Brotherhood, the coup was a disaster for democracy and a serious setback for US interests. The freezing of US military aid and this cautious diplomacy is an attempt at a finding middle ground, but in truth they are ****ed if they do, ****ed if they don't.

[جوري]

You can delude yourself as much as you like, but if the support was what you say, the army could not have acted and he would still be in power.

calling me delusional isn't an argument I am afraid. The army has weapons, the army is only half a million to a population of 90 million.. simple math does the trick here- try to dig deeper before you write, there is more to any topic than a google search if you can't use those brain cells to make new connections!

Of course, the situation could easily change back in Morsi's favour. He has every chance of ending up far more popular as a victim than he was as a commander. And it's the army who will now get blamed for the wreck of the economy, not Morsi.

The situation with the people is in Mursi's favor..
Mursi was looking to dissolve camp David:
http://elmokhalestv.com/index/details/id/72414
which is why they had to get rid of him.

You misread the situation totally before the coup when you said the rank and file of the army would never move against Morsi. And you're just as wrong now. The coup was a bad outcome for the US. Although they had no reason to like the Brotherhood, in practice Morsi was abiding by the same general foreign policy as Mubarack.

That's not what i said go ahead and re quote me. I said the army the bulk of it not the general are conscript of the people and not like Syria where they are divided into alwaites who control the air force and bomb people from above.
Already generals in Egypt are divided amongst themselves seeing the situation on the streets have approached Mursi about a reprieve if they give the top corrupt generals up:
http://www.almokhtsar.com/node/222610
The coup is the outcome the U.S wants.. of course it didn't go smoothly as they counted on the fact that killing a few thousands would send the rest scurrying home as happened during the time of Gamal Abdul Nasser!

It was predicted that the Brotherhood would win the first election, because of their better funding and organisation. It was even more predicatable that Morsi would have lost the next one, had the army not intervened. This would have been a dream result for the US of far, far greater value than anything a lousy military dictatorship can possibly deliver.

The U.S was working with the Israeli lobby from day one to down with the brotherhood, and they've targeted their children for specifically that purpose and put the first rank leaders in their entirety in Jail on trumped up charges:

Whatever short term shadenfreude some US policymakers might feel for the misfortunes of the Brotherhood, the coup was a disaster for democracy and a serious setback for US interests. The freezing of US military aid and this cautious diplomacy is an attempt at a finding middle ground, but in truth they are ****ed if they do, ****ed if they don't.

There's no set back for the U.S except in the failure of their man sissy to carry out their agenda in a timely manner, so they simply shine some other general and call it democracy - they've no problems calling anything democracy so long as Egypt is a big useless country and their little pet Israel can sponge off everyone in the region and outside.
And they have not frozen the military aid in totality just partially and as stated before they can do things openly just to keep up with their image and the things they've down on paper before the nations and coax another one of their colonies to fund as was done before in Nicaragua and they got Saudi to fund it.

Clearly as with every topic this is quite over your head. I am not sure why you continue to pose yourself as some authority figure on any topic here when the sum of your knowledge is a three second google search that always comes up empty!

best,

[shahadainmaine]

Assalamu alaikum.

We Muslims need to become more organized. There are around 1.7 billion of us and in many cases we can't even communicate with each other effectively within our own masjids let alone come together to establish the Khilafa. I'm not sure how compromised Ikhwan/MB is but that does not make everyone in the ummah powerless and helpless regardless of where we are located. Change starts on the smallest level. I am rather disappointed in some aspects of my local Muslim community mainly being that while dedicated brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in Egypt and countless more on a consistent basis in Syria, our khutbas and halaqas are talking about wudu and salat, matters of the heart, time management, and environmentalism. Picnics, potlucks, dinners, and other social events are routinely organized yet it is made quite obvious and clear that any political discussion of any kind related to what is going on in the ummah is to be muted. That is not Islam. While I certainly think those topics and social events do have a place in Islam, they are certainly not to be a replacement for the larger more serious issues. It is not just infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. It seems as if plenty of "Muslims" are hard at work at this too. Clearly there is something going on and I don't like it. Any Muslim who can't see how clearly there is a worldwide war against Islam underway is clearly clueless in my opinion. Yet the biggest elephant in the room is what nobody seems to wish to discuss. Even this discussion board has become much quieter over the past two months. I am not advocating that Muslims in America take to the streets in violent riots over what is happening to our brothers and sisters overseas. But there needs to be some very serious dialogue going on in our local Muslim communities. I don't think I am the only one who is experiencing this suspicious silence. The truth is the truth and we should be fearing what Allah (swt) is thinking, not what Fox News or Homeland Security is thinking. It really is a sad state of affairs and it is up to us to change it insha'Allah.

I understand what you have written. Certainly a Masjid should do more than potlucks and social events. From my own personal experience though I tend to get a little uncomfortable when the Iman of the mosque I've started attending (I'm not a Muslim...yet at least, but am very interested) talks about politics. He does not really talk about it during Friday prayers but on Sundays he does a Quran study and every week he talks about Syria. Please, do not misunderstand! I do think people should be engaged and concerned about what happens in the world, bu during Quran study I was to learn about the Quran. Also, I think my Iman is a Shia (I am not sure, I am still learning about Islam so it is difficult for me to know for sure) and this informs his worldview. Whenever he talks about Syria he always likes to describe it as an attempt to attack Islam being carried out by Israel and Saudi Arabia & the Muslim Brotherhood (though, since the military has taken over in Egypt he doesn't mention them so much anymore) and he usually likes to frame the fighting there as some sort of end times event with a descendant of Ishmael and Isaac being on the good side (the Mahdi and Jesus) and descendants of Ishmael and Isaac being on the evil side (Saudi Arabia/Muslim Brotherhood and Israel).

[Independent]

That's not what i said go ahead and re quote me. I said the army the bulk of it not the general are conscript of the people and not like Syria where they are divided into alwaites who control the air force and bomb people from above

Your English is a little mixed up here so i can't be sure, but you seem to be repeating what I just said. As a conscript army, the Egyptian army is closer to the people than a professional army. The generals can say what they like, but they can't order the army to open fire on the people unless the army itself has some degree of support for opposing Morsi. That's why you misjudged the situation before the coup - because you assume his support was far stronger than it actually was.

Mursi was looking to dissolve camp David:
http://elmokhalestv.com/index/details/id/72414
which is why they had to get rid of him.

As far as I can see, Morsi stated he wished to reform Camp David, not abolish it. (Particularly in relation to the Sinai.) Your link is an Arabic so I don't know if it claims more than that.

There's no set back for the U.S except in the failure of their man sissy to carry out their agenda in a timely manner, so they simply shine some other general and call it democracy

The US does not call the current regime a democracy, and they have repeatedly called for a path to restore democratic rule. (Not that it seems very possible right now.)

Even if the US government had a far better understanding of Egyptian public opinion than you - and somehow miraculously foresaw the complex chain of events, and the changing sentiment of the crowds, from the fall of Mubarack through to today's regime - it still makes no sense as a policy. It's one dictator replaced by another. Even if we pretend that you're right, and they are/were both controlled by the US in some magical way, it makes no sense.

Whereas, if democracy had been allowed to take its course and remove Morsi in the normal way a few years from now, the benefit to US policy would have been incalculable. A real game changer.

[جوري]

Your English is a little mixed up here so i can't be sure

That's your excuse whenever the noose tightens around your neck I know!

but you seem to be repeating what I just said. As a conscript army, the Egyptian army is closer to the people than a professional army. The generals can say what they like, but they can't order the army to open fire on the people unless the army itself has some degree of support for opposing Morsi. That's why you misjudged the situation before the coup - because you assume his support was far stronger than it actually was.

In fact there were mercenaries & black water in Egypt and all those who opposed Sissy from the army were put in jail or killed and then their killing blamed on the MB as they dragged them to Sinai which is pretty much cut off from the rest of Egypt & then their death blamed on 'terrorists'- they've also cut off thousands of trains and established checkpoints coming from upper Egypt which is 70% of Egypt because they know if ahel as'saeed plus Sinai get into Cairo the coup and their boot licking liberals will be pretty much done for so it has nothing to do with popularity- it never did, the 'popularity' brought Mursi and the MB five consecutive elections-- This has to do with funding from outside countries for their personal gains and interests it has to do with who has the weapons and the state media and stands to gain by making Egypt dwarfed instead of rising with the best it has to offer!
http://elshaab.org/thread.php?ID=70542

As far as I can see, Morsi stated he wished to reform Camp David, not abolish it. (Particularly in relation to the Sinai.) Your link is an Arabic so I don't know if it claims more than that.

If you want to discuss politics of a particular area it is imperative that your sources are accurate or at least you've the slightest clue of what it is you're talking about. I am afraid your three second google search fails you here as it fails you everywhere. It requires understanding and connection of events and some fundamental knowledge of history & politics and sometimes even science which is an area completely over your head!

The US does not call the current regime a democracy, and they have repeatedly called for a path to restore democratic rule. (Not that it seems very possible right now.)

They don't have to, sissy is working on having tenure in his position should he run for presidency and lose. All he has to do is take off his uniform, and they've already worked to abolish the MB the most organized and best educated and oldest party with connection to the people so that all that will be left for the people to 'choose' from is the one remaining 'democratic' choice, much like the democratic choice that existed with mubarak!

Even if the US government had a far better understanding of Egyptian public opinion than you - and somehow miraculously foresaw the complex chain of events, and the changing sentiment of the crowds, from the fall of Mubarack through to today's regime - it still makes no sense as a policy. It's one dictator replaced by another. Even if we pretend that you're right, and they are/were both controlled by the US in some magical way, it makes no sense.

You've difficulty understanding many simple things so we can't graduate you to more complex situations, I am not surprised as to why this makes no sense to you. The U.S has no interest in having Egypt do what its president set out to do:
plant own food, make own weapons and define the enemy!

Whereas, if democracy had been allowed to take its course and remove Morsi in the normal way a few years from now, the benefit to US policy would have been incalculable. A real game changer.

They can't wait a few years with someone planting in Sudan, working with Brazil and North korea and his project for the Suez Canal, all while mediating the events in an Israeli led war against Gaza and that is with all the concocted problems he was facing including an economy that is 10% of what his thief predecessor worked with and the fact that a 60+ regime was so entrenched in all the major institutions that simply removing the figure heads isn't enough of a cleansing process!

best,

[Independent]

In fact there were mercenaries & black water in Egypt

Yes, about 3 million of them, i saw them on tv rioting :)

If you can't read Arabic I can't help you there

Then put it in the Arabic forum.

They don't have to, sissy is working on having tenure in his position should he run for presidency and lose. All he has to do is take off his uniform, and they've already worked to abolish the MB so that when the people 'choose' there's only one 'democratic' choice, much like the democratic choice that existed with mubarak!

You're getting closer here - the real casualty of this coup is democracy itself. Sissy can't credibly restore democracy without MB, and MB won't join in any election under Sissy's rules. So it won't happen. Democracy is dead for a generation, in the meantime it's just a question of who has more guns.

The U.S has no interest in having Egypt do what its president set out to do:
plant own food, make own weapons and define the enemy!

This is your favourite fantasy. A kind of naive nationalism reminiscent of Sadat and wholly unachievable today.

Overall, your views are trainwrecked by your fantasies about US motives. You just make up a whole story on what you think they might 'want' to do, and when events turn out differently, you simply change the story. I can't think of anything you've successfully predicted.

From a US perspective, the situation with Sisi is clearly worse than it was under Mubarack and not something that any policymaker could possibly seek. A stable regime has been replaced by an unstable one. The already weakened economy is now even worse - which makes further revolution highly likely.

More seriously for US strategic influence, the Sisi regime and the Saudis blame the US for not supporting them. Yet at the same time, MB sympathisers blame the US for helping them too much. It's easy to see why they're trying hard not to move too quickly in any direction, till they see how things pan out.

[WarriorforMarie]

Whereas...

Why exactly are you trying to debate جوري ???

She can not even acknowledge the easily verifiable fact that the Shia are a majority of Iraq's population.

[Independent]

Why exactly are you trying to debate جوري ???

She can not even acknowledge the easily verifiable fact that the Shia are a majority of Iraq's population.

Ah. but you see, I know she secretly agrees with me.

[جوري]

Why exactly are you trying to debate جوري ???

She can not even acknowledge the easily verifiable fact that the Shia are a majority of Iraq's population.

I can't verify that? truly you're a hoot..
I'd think you'd be embarrassed to point out your ignorance so openly again in lieu of hoping it would simply dissipate into some crevice of the web..
<span style="font-family: Courier New"><font color="DarkSlateGray"><font size="3">
if you're not happy with the results try to set up your own survey and get back to us with something other than search results that agree with your agenda, as I can easily produce evidence to the contrary!

I like big dog me too thing you've going here- It is just unfortunate you always assume the role of a gadfly with such success :)

best,

[جوري]

• Yes, about 3 million of them, i saw them on tv rioting

Glad you get your education from TV.. try google earth too and see how that works out for ya - you know for a second opinion and see if your brain can process two separate realities without shutting down :)

Then put it in the Arabic forum.

I'll put it anywhere I want- your ignorance of a language is no excuse & should if you'd an ounce of intellectual honesty hold you back from gauging a topic clearly over your head. You can purchase as many glasses as you want, if you're illiterate sporting the look won't make you literate.. same thing applies here, googling doesn't make you intelligent or even remotely knowledgeable but an unfortunate waste of everyone's time.

You're getting closer here - the real casualty of this coup is democracy itself. Sissy can't credibly restore democracy without MB, and MB won't join in any election under Sissy's rules. So it won't happen. Democracy is dead for a generation, in the meantime it's just a question of who has more guns.

democracy is a meaningless catch all term. The only thing we can viably take from it, is choosing the leader. The system itself needs to change from the debacle that it is to a proper Islamic state. The MB won't join any elections because they've thrown them in jail and brandished the party 'terrorists' with blessings from the colonial cockroach state which helped them with the rabi3a incident including the specific targeting of MB children!

This is your favourite fantasy. A kind of naive nationalism reminiscent of Sadat and wholly unachievable today.

If it were such a fantasy and unachievable then there would have been no harm keeping Mursi in his seat- I have no idea what Sadat has to do with this, Sadat and the turd that preceded are far removed from Islam or any intelligent thought reminiscent of you than anything else!

Overall, your views are trainwrecked by your fantasies about US motives. You just make up a whole story on what you think they might 'want' to do, and when events turn out differently, you simply change the story. I can't think of anything you've successfully predicted.

We call that projection- and I have called you out on it several times including your meandering of topics as new facts become apparent to you and as you lose credibility for your all too often and too obvious lack of knowledge of the subject matter not to mention frank plagiarizing as happened on the what did morsi do thread! Guess it was burning you enough to seek any opportunity to throw that back as if our short term memory is as horrible as yours!

You're very much akin to the coup generals guilty of massacres yet holding the president kidnapped of those charges. Not sure who you're trying to convince of your all too usual drivel, yourself or anyone here? As stated before I hope they amend the almanac you use to reply to unexpected scenarios and train a bit more for the money you make to post such laughable BS!

From a US perspective, the situation with Sisi is clearly worse than it was under Mubarack and not something that any policymaker could possibly seek. A stable regime has been replaced by an unstable one. The already weakened economy is now even worse - which makes further revolution highly likely.

Mubarak is an 83++ year old goat whose son had no likability and no roots in the army as he was too busy stealing, he would have been the preferred choice for the U.S- Mubarak just didn't understand that his pals could give him up that easily as stated it doesn't matter to them who is in office so long as the regime remains the same and they can just label it democracy or socialism or whatever appears good on paper, they also had a list of alternatives Omar Suliman (who ended up in a proper roast) or Anan or el Baradi (although he's definitely a long shot) they still have a few American bred American fed traitors to do their bidding:
.. too bad for them sissy turned out to be such a sissy they'll just regroup and go to the next turd and heavily arm and fund him just so long as Egypt doesn't fall into the arms of Islamists, at least not MB type Islamists because they actually have a vision for the country. They've no problems with Egypt turning like Pakistani 'Islamists' who are morons!
Egypt in chaos and Syria in destruction means that the pliers aren't around Israel's whorish neck- so it is all good for them no matter how it is sliced!

More seriously for US strategic influence, the Sisi regime and the Saudis blame the US for not supporting them. Yet at the same time, MB sympathisers blame the US for helping them too much. It's easy to see why they're trying hard not to move too quickly in any direction, till they see how things pan out.

You're a simpleton who draws satisfaction from overly simplistic conclusions and yet wish to drag the entire world down to your low common denominator .. stupidity loves company I suppose so hang with yourself or your little pal 'me too' and convince yourselves of your own brand of reality!


best,

[جوري]

Ah. but you see, I know she secretly agrees with me.

I agree you are an enfant provocateur- yes!

[جوري]

[Jedi_Mindset]

Its interesting to see all these things going on from an eschatological perspective. Makes me shiver but realizing that help is near Insha'Allah
Some very huge power changes are going on and ofcourse 3 countries in chaos as prophecied by rasoolAllah(Saw) (Egypt, syria, iraq)

[جوري]

It's best you learn about your religion politically or of eschatology from pseudo intellects!

[Signor]

Some very huge power changes are going on and ofcourse 3 countries in chaos as prophecied by rasoolAllah(Saw) (Egypt, syria, iraq

Dr.Ali Al-Timimi's explanation is surprisingly wonderful.

Upon 'Abdullah b. Amr (may Allah be pleased with them both) who said: The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) said:

There will be a fitna that will clean (tastanzifu) the Arabs, its dead will be in Hell. During which the tongue will be more severe (ashadd) than a blow of the sword.

At-Tuwaijari then comments on the narrators of this narration and after concluding that the hadith is hasan he proceeds to explain it as follows:

[Regarding the Prophet's] statement "cleans the Arabs," It is said [in Arabic]: istanzafat ash-shay', if you take it all. ... . While Ali al-Qari has said in al-Mirqat [my note: al-Mirqat is a commentary of Mishkat al-Masabih]: It has been said that it means it will purify them from filth (al-ardhal) [my note: perhaps here it is best translated as sins] and the people of al-fitan.

I (i.e. at-Tuwajari) say: This [second] opinion is strong in light of the evidence, even though the first opinion is stronger in light of the [Arabic] language.

What bears witness to what al-Qari has said is what has been mentioned regarding the fitna known as ad-duhaima' [my note: ad-duhaima' means black and dark, at-Tuwaijiri gives a lengthy discussion on the meaning of this word on pages 55-56.]. [Where the Prophet said]: It will not leave any single individual of this umma but slap him on the cheek. In [the hadith on the duhaima' fitna, the Prophet] said: "Until the people become two camps: one of faith with no hypocrisy and one of hypocrisy with no faith."

At-Tuwaijri continues: This shows that the duhaima' fitna will clean the believers from the people of fitan, doubt and hypocrisy; not that it will annihilate them completely. And the duhaima' fitna is the greatest fitna that will occur prior to the appearance of the Antichrist.

Source

I hope this civil war which was the result of coup d'état not only seperates the filth from the people of Egypt but also in Syria as well InshaAllah.

[WarriorforMarie]

I can't verify that? truly you're a hoot..
I'd think you'd be embarrassed to point out your ignorance so openly again in lieu of hoping it would simply dissipate into some crevice of the web..
<span style="font-family: Courier New"><font color="DarkSlateGray"><font size="3">
if you're not happy with the results try to set up your own survey and get back to us with something other than search results that agree with your agenda, as I can easily produce evidence to the contrary!

I like big dog me too thing you've going here- It is just unfortunate you always assume the role of a gadfly with such success

best,

So a video from Youtube is proof? Is there a dataset to back up an assertion that the Sunni are the majority? What was the methodology used? Not that actual scientific study would mean anything to you. No amount of evidence would ever change your mind because of the chains you have constructed for your intellect. You accuse me of having an agenda, but your anti-Shia agenda has been quite clear with your labeling of the Shia in Iraq as "psychopaths." I'm not sure what your source of hostility towards the Shia is. I would assume it is simply because their version of Islam is different from your version of Islam. What a narrow minded and sad reason to hate people who are different from you.

[جوري]

? Is there a dataset to back up an assertion that the Sunni are the majority

I have given database on the previous threads from Iraqi sources and they should be the best to assess their own demographics- we can't help it if you're not from the region, don't know how to read and don't know how to process information!

This thread is about Egypt, I hope you can deal with unresolved residual psychological issues on your own private time!

and btw the video above is from a 'shiite' source as they're the only ones who call Muslims 'nawasib'!

best,

[faithandpeace]

I understand what you have written. Certainly a Masjid should do more than potlucks and social events. From my own personal experience though I tend to get a little uncomfortable when the Imam [edited] of the mosque I've started attending (I'm not a Muslim...yet at least, but am very interested) talks about politics. He does not really talk about it during Friday prayers but on Sundays he does a Quran study and every week he talks about Syria. Please, do not misunderstand! I do think people should be engaged and concerned about what happens in the world, bu during Quran study I was to learn about the Quran. Also, I think my Imam [edited] is a Shia (I am not sure, I am still learning about Islam so it is difficult for me to know for sure) and this informs his worldview. Whenever he talks about Syria he always likes to describe it as an attempt to attack Islam being carried out by Israel and Saudi Arabia & the Muslim Brotherhood (though, since the military has taken over in Egypt he doesn't mention them so much anymore) and he usually likes to frame the fighting there as some sort of end times event with a descendant of Ishmael and Isaac being on the good side (the Mahdi and Jesus) and descendants of Ishmael and Isaac being on the evil side (Saudi Arabia/Muslim Brotherhood and Israel).

Glad to hear you are interested in Islam. Please feel free to ask any questions and insha'Allah (God willing) we will do our best to help you. Also, I believe you meant "Imam" in your post which is a leader found in a masjid. "Iman" (or "eman") refers to faith or belief in Islam.

Politics can be a touchy subject but a very important one. I do not feel that politics should be injected into discussions where it takes things off-topic so if you were attending a Qur'an class then obviously he should focus on the Qur'an and not get off on tangents. However, if he is quoting various ayat (verses) in the Qur'an that have very important lessons for today that are relevant to certain current events (i.e. Syria or Egypt) then it would make sense for him to reference them. People living in the West and elsewhere are often accustomed to the idea of religion and politics (i.e. voting, candidates, laws, etc.), or religion and secular endeavors (i.e. shopping, banking, working, studying, etc.) as being separate. This is not the case in Islam. Everything from what is in one's heart to one's every action and even the direction of an entire society is considered religious and is inseparable from Islam for those who are Muslims which means that we are required to interpret everything from an Islamic perspective where applicable.

In the masjids I have attended (which have been very few), there tends to be political discussion that is injected into discussions and discourses where it is off-topic, irrelevant, and containing viewpoints that are either not backed up in Islam (i.e. Qur'an and Sunnah are not cited) or they are actually contradictory to Islam. Then when political discussion is extremely relevant, such topics are often completely absent or if mentioned are barely touched upon and then quickly glossed over. We need to hear politics in our masjids but we need to hear the right kind of politics, meaning "What does Islam say about a particular issue and how should Muslims address the issue?" This is my humble opinion based on my understanding of Islam and as always Allah (swt) knows best.

[faithandpeace]

Assalamu-alaikum

The above reply is the complete response - which, as you have correctly indicated - have 'no sources quoted from Quran and Hadith'.

^ And this is a completely fine, mashaAllah.
The reason why this is an acceptable response from a mufti stems from the following:

If, for example, a person suffers from a serious heart condition. What does he do?
-> He will obviously look for the best, and most qualified cardiologist in his area and consult him for appropriate advise and treatment.
Which means, that from the outset - before even walking into the cardiologists room - he is indirectly saying that: I accept this specialists knowledge, experience and good recommendations in the community, and this is the reason why I have chosen to consult him for this problem.

So, the cardiologist examines the person, and then gives him advice to take certain medications and that he will need a certain operation.
It will be good for the cardiologist to explain the persons medical condition to him, in the best and simplest way possible (for a lay-person to understand).....but if the patient were to ask for 'evidence' behind each and every medication or advice - will this be correct?

Of course not.
Why? Because, firstly the cardiologist will not have the time to do so.
And secondly: His advice is not based on information that he read from one/ two journals. Instead his conclusions are the result of years.....sometimes, decades of learning and experience.
Which means, that if the patient is asking for 'evidence' for each recommendation that is made by the cardiologist - he is actually saying that he does not trust this cardiologists decision (and he wants to verify it himself). It would be understandable if the cardiologist were to say: if you are not happy with my judgement, then you can go elsewhere....

For worldly matters, we may chose to get a 'second opinion'.

But when it comes to matters of deen, the teaching from our elders is that: Once you have chosen to contact a certain aalim (scholar) - it means that you already trust his knowledge and reliability (if not, then why would you contact him?).....and so, once a fatwa is provided, then we accept it, and practice upon it.
(if not, it results in 'shopping for fatwas', and following our desire for an answer that suits our limited understanding).
In this case, I trust the experience and the many, many years of study that this particular mufti has - and while it is possible for me to ask him to explain in more detail (for my own understanding) - it will be incorrect for me to doubt whether or not this fatwa is based on quraan and hadith.

(I realise that this is a long-winded reply, but in shaa Allah, it explains that we hold the knowledge that our elders have with respect and regard in shaa Allah.
Unfortunately, the current trend is for people to read a few articles on a topic, and then think that they are 'experts' in it.
Whereas, the advice of our ulema is based on many years of knowledge and from authentic sources in shaa Allah).

Jazakallah khair for clarifying the above points. I agree we should not "fatwa shop" nor assume ourselves as experts after a minimal amount of reading or studying as such can lead to arrogance and incorrect understanding. May Allah (swt) protect us from these problems. At the same time, I feel we do have to be on guard constantly against fitna and anyone or anything that could lead us astray (whether intentionally or unintentionally). Just because a particular masjid or Islamic organization has an office with a desk and nameplate that says "Shikh" or "Imam" does not of course mean that this person is to automatically be considered a reliable source of information for all Islamic matters although he may be reliable on some things. I do believe we should try to seek out scholars that are trustworthy but then the question is how do we know who is reliable? We therefore have to rely on our sources (Qur'an and Sunnah) and our intelligence that Allah (swt) has given us. If it had not been for our intelligence and ability to consult our sources and Allah's (swt) will then we would never have accepted Islam or maintained our iman or taqwa in the first place. That is great to hear that you have found ulema that you are comfortable consulting. Perhaps I am just not there yet. I do know that if something does not fit right with me meaning it does not make logical sense in my mind and does not seem to be in line with anything I have read in Qur'an or Hadith then it warrants a demand for clarification. May Allah (swt) forgive me if I am wrong here.

The point that was being made (and in the muftis reply) is that the civil wars that are currently occurring in many parts of the world, are not regarded as jihad by very many traditional scholars.

And this is what I dispute. Just because "very many traditional scholars" disagree on something does not mean they are per se correct considering that we are in times of serious fitna. Even if political issues are not necessarily related to Islam itself, as Muslims we must interpret everything according to Islam where applicable. In Egypt as many have cited here in various links, videos, and examples, Imams are being banned from giving khutbas, masjids are being closed or having hours of operation restricted, visibly-observant Muslims (i.e. bearded men, niqabi women) are being specifically targeted for oppression and violence, Muslims who oppose secular government and support Islamic governance are being flat out killed, etc. That is not just "civil war" but is indeed a situation that makes jihad obligatory because they are being prohibited from practicing Islam. What I do not know is to what extent jihad is obligatory for Muslims outside of these conflict zones (i.e. here in the U.S.) and what kinds of jihad are obligatory). Jazakallah khair for posting the opinion of your ulema. To my knowledge, though, the ulema in my local Muslim community have been so silent on the issue that I have yet to even hear the word "jihad" referenced outside of a joke someone has told or within the context of some statement along the lines of "American Muslims condemn terrorism."

The description of the sisters hijab (or lack thereof) at your masjid, is a good example of how much emphasis needs to be placed on reforming peoples hearts and matters of day-to-day ibaadat.

Unfortunately, very often, the ones who want to take to the streets in protest of, for example, insults to the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) and other matters - themselves, bear very little resemblance to his blessed manner.
Which is why, it seems acceptable to become passionate in 'defending islam' - by burning down property and other ways that are in complete contradiction to the teachings of islam......but there is little passion in following the sunnah of the beard, the prophet (saw) dress, men reading their daily salaah in jamaat, etc.
^ This stems from lack of knowledge and true love for the commands of Allah and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam)......but more knowledge and love for worldly affairs.

Taqwa and iman are both extremely important, no doubt about that as are the daily habits of the Muslim such as dress and behavior. Jazakallah khair for the good examples you have provided. This tells me that it is crucial as Muslims to "pick our battles" and utilize the proper response for the situation. While someone slandering the Prophet (saw) is something that should deeply disturb us, there may be other issues that are more pressing and imminent, and the response should be appropriate and applicable to the situation and a response of moderation rather than extremism and of course grounded in Islamic principles.

One of the masjids I attend I have not heard hijab referenced as obligatory for women even so much as once (not even in the "intro" talks given to reverts). When hijab is referenced, it is referenced in the context of a joke. Needless to say I have mostly moved on from that masjid. Yet I have also frequented Muslim-owned businesses where the Muslimahs who work at or run the place are not wearing hijab and not breaking away from the operations of the business at salat time. Many Muslims do not have the privilege of running a business where we can choose our schedule and dress code much easier than when working for a non-Muslim business where our Islam is tolerated at best. So it really baffles me that people in positions where following important obligatory aspects of Islam are rather easy choose to abandon them and then turn around and tell those of us who are struggling to follow the same things that these acts are optional and not required. I have yet to hear of any lecture on riba and how to avoid it and its importance. Simple questions about various aspects of the deen are essentially considered to be "not a big deal" and no effort on the leaders is made at all to research the answer and get back to me. So in essence, at least from what I have been exposed to, we have people calling themselves as scholars who do not appear to measure up to the title. I am not doing takfeer on them or considering them to be munafiqueen but I feel we as Muslims have a continuous duty to improve in every aspect of Islam and demand that those who lead us do the same.

The fiqh of jihad is a topic for itself (which is best held by those who possess true knowledge in this field)....
However, as mentioned above, many imaams and scholars do not view the current wars as a form of jihad.

It is best that we take our cues in these matters from our ulema (and not small factions within the community), and in shaa Allah, we will safe-guard ourselves from falling into error (remember, we are living in a time when there will be much division within our ummah. Many people will be saying many different things.
For us, as simple muslims to ensure that we remain on the straight path in shaa Allah, it is best to stick close to those knowledgeable and trustworthy in our communities).

I dont think it would be easy to extrapolate what is happening at your masjid to everywhere else (even within your region)....

In my area, our imaams and other muslim leaders do speak of the calamities in other parts of the world, by means of:
- Duaa that is made in congregation.
- Some time ago, our local masjid held a night of prayer and zikr for the victims of egypt and syria
- Our local jamiat does discuss global affairs on their website. This is their link: http://jamiat.org.za/blog/category/news/
- Our local islamic radio stations holds many discussions about what is going on in many parts of the world.
- I constantly receive emails and sms alerts requesting donations for various relief projects: e.g. Gift of the Givers, Al Imdaad Foundation, etc (we just need to look out for reputable organisations and in shaa Allah, we can do our part - even if it is very small).

In other words, we may not find our imaams directly calling for support towards one group or another (as it is becoming increasingly difficult to identify who are the actual enemies to islam and who are not).
They hold positions of great responsibility in their respective communities, and so, there does need to be caution before passing any verdicts - that is often based on incomplete information, and for which, they will be held accountable for in the aakhirah.
(e.g. while Bassad is indeed a tyrant, there are also problems within the rebel groups as well......it really is not as clear as we would hope it to be).

But, at least in my part of the world, and I hope in many others, there are some attempts being made (no doubt, there is always room for improvement), to call the community to remember, make duaa for and support our brothers and sisters in all parts of the globe.


:wa:

I may just have to keep looking locally until I find what is needed. But I believe there is clear evidence that much of Islam in America is being transformed into "Americanized Islam" in a similar manner as to the creation of "Reform Judaism" out of Judaism. Unlike Judaism and Christianity where many adherents believe that those paths need to "change with the times" Islam is not changeable or reformable yet the imam at the masjid I was referencing earlier in this post publically stated that some reform is needed in Islam and basically stated he wanted "to open the gates of ijtihad." So we obviously have some serious problems.

I am no expert on Islam but I have learned enough to understand some very simple politics to follow as Muslims.

1. The first is that we are Muslims first and anything else second. We are not American Muslims or British Muslims or Pakistani Muslims. We are Muslims who live in the United States or the United Kingdom or Pakistan. It is one thing for Muslims to follow the law of the land in which we live, pay our taxes, and participate positively in our nation. It is another thing to adopt state-based nationalism in which our country is first and Islam is second. And I clearly see a significant attempt by regular Muslims and Muslim leadership at essentially defining us as "American Muslims" rather than just Muslims in America. Our nationalism is the ummah. Therefore we should be more connected in our hearts, minds, and applicable actions to Muslims in Egypt and Syria than connected to kaffirs in our own states just because our passports or visas happen to say U.S. on them. If a Muslim is more patriotic and loyal to a nation of kufr and shirk than to our brothers and sisters this raises some serious questions and concerns. As to Egypt, it appears the same issue is underway there and that is to turn Muslims in Egypt into Egyptian Muslims where Islam becomes secondary and "Egyptianism" becomes primary. Tribalism, nationalism, ethno-centrism have no place in Islam as we are one ummah--brotherhood and sisterhood. :)

2. We need tarbiya. We need good PR. We need strong communication. Two of the halaqas I go to aren't even listed on the masjid website and the other masjid that has a class I used to go often did not update the information on their website. It is understandable if our leaders don't know every detail about what is going on in Egypt or Syria but they should be informing us of the things they do know and using technology to our advantage by putting links and videos on websites, handing out brochures, etc. Capitalist corporations and government agencies often make strong use of communications and technologies. Why don't we? Since the topic is Egypt, why then is the Ikhwan/MB website full of blank pages and areas of the site that don't seem finished? The website states that there are members outside of Egypt so someone somewhere should have the login to keep us updated yet many aspects don't even look like they are finished. I have even offered to help improve things at a local masjid and so have other much more learned sisters and the requests are ignored and stagnation is preferred over striving as is indicated by the lack of action or motivation.

3. We need to get non-Islamic culture out of Islam. Hijra is obligatory for those of us in danger of fitna or in areas where iman is weak. Yet most Muslims who are running the local community here (and likely throughout the U.S.) have arrived here by leaving Muslim lands in favor of a kaffir nation. I have heard more talk about the greatness of America by these leaders than I have about the greatness of living in the khalifa or under sharia. In fact, the word "khalifa" has not been mentioned yet that I have heard.

Astagfirullah for making this long and for being a bit off-topic myself. I hope the mods don't delete this as insha'Allah I will try to keep this more on-topic going forward. I feel that the points in this post are very applicable to what is going on in Egypt (the title of this thread) and how we as Muslims should interpret the situation and respond even if they aren't all addressing the situation there specifically. May Allah (swt) forgive me for anything I have said incorrect and guide us all to the truth. Ameen.

[~Zaria~]

And this is what I dispute. Just because "very many traditional scholars" disagree on something does not mean they are per se correct considering that we are in times of serious fitna. Even if political issues are not necessarily related to Islam itself, as Muslims we must interpret everything according to Islam where applicable. In Egypt as many have cited here in various links, videos, and examples, Imams are being banned from giving khutbas, masjids are being closed or having hours of operation restricted, visibly-observant Muslims (i.e. bearded men, niqabi women) are being specifically targeted for oppression and violence, Muslims who oppose secular government and support Islamic governance are being flat out killed, etc. That is not just "civil war" but is indeed a situation that makes jihad obligatory because they are being prohibited from practicing Islam. What I do not know is to what extent jihad is obligatory for Muslims outside of these conflict zones (i.e. here in the U.S.) and what kinds of jihad are obligatory). Jazakallah khair for posting the opinion of your ulema. To my knowledge, though, the ulema in my local Muslim community have been so silent on the issue that I have yet to even hear the word "jihad" referenced outside of a joke someone has told or within the context of some statement along the lines of "American Muslims condemn terrorism."

:sl:


:jz: for your reply.

Without taking the discussion too much off topic, I will just respond to the above in shaa Allah:

The point that was being made is that before the call for Jihad can be made, it needs to fulfill the conditions pertaining to Jihad, according to our shariah. (I dont think anyone can deny that we are living in times of great fitnah in general.)
If ulema of the affected countries have not made a call for jihad, then this would likely mean that there are some conditions that have not been met.
Today, people wish to scream out 'jihad', without even possessing the basic knowledge of its fiqh.
If we are to follow these groups of people (who speak without very much knowledge), then it is possible that we will be led astray. (May Allah protect us all from this. Ameen).
Which is why, we should take our knowledge and guidance (in these matters that are not so clear) from those who do possess such knowledge (as the real-life example of a cardiologist. While we all agree that the foundations of our Islam are derived from Quraan and Sunnah, there are some aspects in islam, where the rulings can not be derived from simply opening the quraan and certain ahadith, and for us to come to our own conclusions. In these matters, that are not so clear and require interpretation - based on a good understanding of the arabic language, hadith and quraan (which takes many years of study) - then, we should refer this to scholars within our madhab (school of interpretation) in our communities).
In other words, we refer to a 'legal expert' to understand the complex interpretations of quraan and sunnah.

We know the importance of this, from the Quraan itself:
"O you who believe! Follow Allah; follow the Messenger and those of authority (Amr) amongst you." (Surah Al-Nisaa: 59)

^ It has been explained that 'those of authority' refers to our muslim leaders, as well as islamic jurists.

Mufti Taqi Usmani explains:

Surah Al-Nisaa: 83:

"And when there comes to them a matter concerning (public) safety or fear, they relay it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority (Amr), those who can investigate and extract (information) among them would know (the rumor's validity)...."

The background to this verse is that the hypocrites of Madinah would spread rumors regarding war and peace. Simple-minded Muslims would believe these rumors
and exacerbate the situation, creating an atmosphere of insecurity and panic in the city.

The verse quoted above prevented Muslims from taking this approach and advised them to refer news of war and peace to those of Amr and not to spread rumors. Thus, capable individuals investigating the rumors would be able to reach the truth of the issue and inform others concerned. The role of the lay person was not to take any action except to refer such rumors and reports to those of Amr.

However, this is a discussion in itself......if you are interested I can provide more information regarding the importance of Taqleed (following a Mujtahid (a jurist).

I do sense that you are feeling very frustrated in your own community, with regards to the lack of leadership and direction in some areas.
My ukthi, you should know that these types of issues (and more) exist in many communities. There are many reasons for this......but my personal belief is that despite these weaknesses, ultimately, the search for true knowledge rests with an individual.
There are muslims who live in muslim- predominant areas, who are provided good advise by their imaams and have all the resources available to them - but still fail to heed or practice upon them.
And then, there are muslims, who are living in very under-developed areas, without many resources and the masaajid being many miles away - but, when they learn of a sunnah of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), even once, they immediately make a change to their lives.

So, dont despair :)

We will always encounter things that are not as perfect as we would like it to be.....this is part of our life here in the dunya.
As Mufti Menk once said (to a similar effect): 'If life was to be perfect.....then whats the need for a Paradise?' : )


BarakAllah feekum

:wa:

[WarriorforMarie]

I have given database on the previous threads from Iraqi sources and they should be the best to assess their own demographics- we can't help it if you're not from the region, don't know how to read and don't know how to process information!

Are you referring to the block of text you copy and pasted without a citation? Or was this in another thread? If you could be so kind as to share a link to the database, or let me know where this thread is.

unresolved residual psychological issues

Wow, you really slammed me. I sure don't know how I'll ever recover from that insightful barb.

This thread is about Egypt

Yes, a shame about what happened to the Brotherhood. I suppose the only silver lining is that Allah wished for it to happen.

[جوري]

Are you referring to the block of text you copy and pasted without a citation? Or was this in another thread? If you could be so kind as to share a link to the database, or let me know where this thread is.

The thread you originally referred to and apparently learned nothing from!

Wow, you really slammed me. I sure don't know how I'll ever recover from that insightful barb.

As stated before, I hope your catharsis is carried out on your own private time!

Yes, a shame about what happened to the Brotherhood. I suppose the only silver lining is that Allah wished for it to happen.

No idea what this drivel means but I'll report it and the mods can decide if that's appropriate language or even sensical at that. I suppose in your religion god wishes and your single brain cell can't fathom a world outside of what you know!

best,

[جوري]

Egypt's coup leaders employ Israeli company to secure Suez Canal
www.middleeastmonitor.comA report by the Arab Organisation for Human Rights has revealed that an Israeli company, Seagull Maritime Security, provides maritime security services for cruises and cargo ships passing through the Suez Canal in Egypt. The Egyptian authorities have granted the company a license to work in the Suez...










if there were any doubt to the Zionist roots of the killer sissy they're all front & center now!

[Muhammad]

This thread seems to have become a warzone of its own, and is going in multiple directions. I am closing it for now so we can review it. Perhaps a new thread can be created for updates on the situation in Egypt and Syria, and I will consider moving some posts into a separate topic of their own. But those posts which are simply becoming endless arguments and baiting will not be tolerated and will be deleted, so please avoid taking threads off-topic and derailing with unhelpful remarks.

In particular, remarks such as the following are easily perceived as being mocking and disrespectful:

Yes, a shame about what happened to the Brotherhood. I suppose the only silver lining is that Allah wished for it to happen.

Maybe Allah wanted the coup to happen in order to save Bashar Assad's regime in Syria? Who knows?

Why does Allah allow the United States to continue to dominate the Sunni part of the Middle East?

Please correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you would anyway) but does this mean that Allah has allowed the United States to control the Sunni countries because they abandoned Allah?

Our rules clearly state that:
16. No attacks against Islam in any form will be tolerated on this discussion board.

Any further such comments will lead to removal of posts and being banned from the forum.