Originally Posted by loveofgod
Originally Posted by loveofgod
Originally Posted by loveofgod
You are continuing to insist on your own incorrect assumption and interpretation of the verse despite what others in the thread have told you.
If you read the verse in it's context, from 2:135-2:140, it will become apparent that it is not saying that Muslims undergo baptism but quite the opposite. The verses talk about Jews or Christians, and how they were saying to Muslims that they should become one of them in order to become rightly guided. Allah tells and advises the Muslims to respond by saying, that we believe in ALL the prophets of God, and ALL the revelations given to them by God, we do not discriminate against any of them, or reject any one of them at all, and to Him we fully submit. He reminds the Jews and Christians, that we follow the same way as Abraham, and if you claim to be Abrahamic, then he was one by nature upright, submitting fully to God and not associating anyone in His Exclusive Divinity. It is in the midst of these verses that 2:138 comes.
S. A Maududi's commentary of verse 2:138 says:
It may also mean, "We took Allah's colour." Before the advent of Christianity, it was a custom among the Jews to give a bath to those who accepted Judaism. It meant to imply that all the sins of the baptised person were washed away and he had received a new colour of life. This same custom was later on adopted by the Christians and it was termed "Baptism", which is a ceremonial immersion in water or an application of water as an initiatory rite or sacrament of the Christian Church. It is applied not only to the new converts but also to all newly-born babies. The Qur'an says that there is nothing substantial in this ceremonial "colouring," since it is not necessary for salvation. For this purpose one should take colour from Allah by adopting His Way and submitting to His Law.
They felt for salvation or for coming closer to God and/or for other reasons, one had to undergo baptism, and Muslims did not undergo this. Allah tells the Muslims, that it is not any such ceremony, but submitting fully and wholeheartedly to Him, following the teachings He has sent for us, and worshipping Him alone without any associates In His Exclusive Divinity, that is important. Taking on the hue of God is not from any water or by being dipped in it, but from one's beliefs and practices. That is what makes one a believer, walking in the path of God. Muslims should strive hard to follow the religion of God as He intended for it to be followed, and as every messenger preached - the original only true message from God. Not any made-up or deviated practices, such a ascribing trinities or sons to God, or deifying or rejecting messengers.
It then goes on say to to those who claim that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob (peace be upon them) were Jews or Christians:
"Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. (2:140, part)
Baptism as practiced by Christians, is a concept by which one is received into the church and is normally done in the name of the persons of the trinity. Some say it washes away original sin and sin committed thus far, others say it is necessary for salvation. And some say it allows the person to become into a state whereby he can enter into a relationship with God, the relationship having been broken by Adam and Eve's eating from the tree.
With regards to washing away original sin (the person still having the fallen nature) and allowing the person to enter into a state whereby he can now have a relationship with God, or indeed for salvation:
In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of remoteness from God, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins. Newborn babies are born into a state of innocence and purity.
In Christianity, God did not forgive Adam (peace be upon him) for eating from the tree, and not only Adam but all subsequent generations have to bear a punishment from God, and fell out of grace with God, their relationship with God was severed, and they are born into a state of sin and remoteness from God, and death also arose from Adam and Eve's action. They believe that God's standards are so high and holy that we can never achieve them ourselves, thus to atone for our imperfection and inability to meet God's standards, and to reconcile people to God and repair the severed relationship, and to atone for people's sins, the sacrifice of a perfect innocent man (who also happens to be God) and his slow, bloody, and painful death comes into play.
With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, and return to the straight path, we will find Allah Kind & Forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam. For all and any in the posterity of Adam, the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death. We give Christians and all non-Muslims an invitation to return to this right path, the path of all the Prophets, as Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.
We are required to struggle, and to make effort, and to show our commitment on our part, by submitting fully and wholeheartedly to His authority, will and guidance, believing and doing good deeds, and obeying God, and the teachings he sent His messengers with. Ultimately, salvation is through Allah's mercy. We strive with faith and deeds and obedience to God, do our best, and trust in His Promise, and His Justice, and hoping for His Mercy.
It is our testimony of faith, believed with firm conviction in the heart, and known with certainty to be true, and our wholehearted and full submission to the authority, will, and guidance of God alone without associates in His Divinity, that makes us believers.
It is the testimony of faith, its firm belief in the heart, and declaration by tongue, and acceptance of what that mandates for a Muslim, that brings a person into Islam. He/she is now a Muslim. Their slate is wiped clean.
Muslims should ideally always be in as much of a state of purity as possible. Ghusl is a full bath, so new Muslims will take a bath soon after their shahaadah (testimony of faith). This bath is to cleanse the body. As the five times daily prayers are the second pillar of Islam after the shahaadah, the new Muslim will need to take a bath in order to pray.