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Muhammad Zaki
09-04-2013, 02:59 PM
Most of the religious and political leaders exhort and urge the Muslims to unite.What is the root cause of the division among Muslims? How these Muslims, belonging to so many different sects, are to be united?
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greenhill
09-04-2013, 03:45 PM
Traditions, beliefs, and other stuff like pride, jealousy, greed, not mentioning politics and for reasons of power?

I don't know.. just hazarding a guess :hmm:
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M.I.A.
09-04-2013, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad Zaki
Most of the religious and political leaders exhort and urge the Muslims to unite.What is the root cause of the division among Muslims? How these Muslims, belonging to so many different sects, are to be united?
in a word, god.

i mean if he wanted he would have made us all reading from the same page and script.

but people have there own heads and hearts.

others offer support and opposition.


and we are all locked into our own tests and trials.


so if you question why there is no unity,

it is because it would not serve a purpose yet.


imo.
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h-n
09-04-2013, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
in a word, god.

i mean if he wanted he would have made us all reading from the same page and script.

but people have there own heads and hearts.

others offer support and opposition.


and we are all locked into our own tests and trials.


so if you question why there is no unity,

it is because it would not serve a purpose yet.


imo.
???? First you say its to do with God then accept that people have their own choices. IT is to do with the PEOPLE only, by Allah's leave.

God would never ask for the Muslims to be in divisions, conflicts, that has never been his idea. If you needed them to be united in the future why would it serve a better purpose then now??? God would be pleased if the Muslims were to get along NOW, he is not purposely keeping people in conflicts, as they do that themselves.

Due to the fact that we are responsible for our own souls on the Day of Judgement, and I would never wish to attack another, I call myself a Muslim only, not a sunni, not a shia etc. Its important to read the Quran and the hadiths, and live peacefully AWAY from joining in conflicts (if they can put so much effort in fighting, they don't have any excuses to putting in so much effort in bringing peace). Your are responsible for your own souls, so concentrate on that and avoid trouble makers.
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M.I.A.
09-04-2013, 07:39 PM
i would guess, people that do not see loss fight the hardest.

and i would guess that when you have been to places where peoples tongues and hands and feet act of there own accord, you would really be god fearing.

or just fearing.


anyway, i cant exactly preach to you.

any external piety you may see is just a front to cover my sins.



and its funny, how judgement plays out by peoples leave.


but yes, fighting is prescribed for you although... look it up.

and also is the bit about being made in division, within the first 200 pages... although you have planted seeds of doubt.


anyway for all the perceived knowledge and insight we run our lives by, we are still at the mercy of allah swt.


and he needs nothing and none of us.


people far better have been replaced. or not.


anyway, the only thing i can urge you towards is not taking things at face value.
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h-n
09-04-2013, 10:23 PM
Allah provided a SIMPLE, CLEAR message, there are those that wish to treat Islam has complicated maybe because if they didn't it would perhaps make them feel devalued as people would perhaps say its not hard to study. For example if you took a degree in Physics, and if you walk down the street, you can actually say there are plenty of people who don't know what you know. Now just because people have set up academies etc, they are actually treating people is if they don't understand Islam. Fight those who fight you mentioned, but even in Afghanistan, I wouldn't be fighting for people largely don't care for the hereafter, and neither can you say if you did, that they would be adhering to Islam better then they did in the past, even in palestinians they are saying that the one way to win the war is by having lots of children -the Prophet never fought that way, they should stop smoking, stop trying to have everything at once ie state building and war), if your not fighting properly when people are in jail and bombs thrown and when Israel decides to make peace is only when they do something evil and when fearing retaliation they are quick to talk about peace-frankly fight properly if not there is no point in asking anyone to fight with you, and no need to quote what the enemy has or how large in number when Allah has helped the Muslims in the past ie Battle of Badr.

There are those who are quick to say to people, your not in a position to talk about Islam, but are quick to talk about telling people to fight-a strange thing, if you people are saying you don't understand Islam then they shouldn't be quick to tell you to fight for it. They use the example of the people who were kept back at the time of the Prophet, but even then the people who fought knew what they were fighting for.

Yes, everything is simple, and there is no code that Allah has asked us to crack, or hidden meanings to find in the Quran. As Allah even gave this message to people who were illiterate, people who just were farmers etc, it is a simple message, Allah never said that it was complicated, he never said that you have to learn a whole new language (by Allah's will we have a translated Quran), take a degree for a couple of years then you understand. People can die at anytime, and they have even died just after proclaiming their faith.

Prophet Noah, Lut, Muhammad, Moses, Noah peace be upon them etc gave a simple message (one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell) -it is NOT for anyone to say that Islam is difficult or not to take things as face value in the scripts because what is said in the Quran means exactly that ie there is one God, so there is one God, there is a Day of Judgement, so there is a Day of Judgement, there is mention of Hell, so there is a Hell, there is a mention of Paradise, so there is Paradise etc.

There is no way that Allah would ever tell the Muslims to be split into different groups, and it is a fact that Allah would be happy that we got along, he of course does not like the conflicts etc. I do dislike people trying to make Islam complicated so people would think that they have spent their lives learning a hard thing. I am happy for me to go my way and to you your own approach, as I am only responsible for my own soul.
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M.I.A.
09-05-2013, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by h-n
There is no way that Allah would ever tell the Muslims to be split into different groups, and it is a fact that Allah would be happy that we got along, he of course does not like the conflicts etc. I do dislike people trying to make Islam complicated so people would think that they have spent their lives learning a hard thing. I am happy for me to go my way and to you your own approach, as I am only responsible for my own soul.

..well no, you were created in pairs.

although what that means i have no idea and i cant remember if its even actually in the quran.
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Futuwwa
09-05-2013, 02:04 PM
The root cause of the division is that people disagree with me. We are to be united by everyone realizing that I am right, agreeing with me, and electing me Caliph.
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h-n
09-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
..well no, you were created in pairs.

although what that means i have no idea and i cant remember if its even actually in the quran.
That's to talk about how procreation happens if you missed that at school its when your Mummy and Daddy spend time together then your growing inside your Mummy's tummy. Mother Mary, the Prophets (who married more then once) weren't created in pairs and if you don't understand something then it is better off learning about it first.

Allah is talking about the initial creation of when he created the Earth and then the creatures he created the first Man and then the first women, when he created the first Male camel then he created a female camel so that's were the pairs come up.

My example was also about that I am solely responsible for my soul-which is a FACT in the Quran-so how you can go from this to that is bizarre.
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h-n
09-05-2013, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
The root cause of the division is that people disagree with me. We are to be united by everyone realizing that I am right, agreeing with me, and electing me Caliph.
Is that supposed to be funny?? As it isn't.
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Futuwwa
09-05-2013, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
Is that supposed to be funny?? As it isn't.
It isn't. It's just the attitude of about 90% of all Muslims who rant about how disunited the Ummah is.
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h-n
09-05-2013, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
It isn't. It's just the attitude of about 90% of all Muslims who rant about how disunited the Ummah is.
No problem, just that you never said you were quoting others.
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Ali_008
09-06-2013, 02:02 PM
It is mostly ego, I suppose. Most Muslims have differing views; and most of us, being humans, are quick to passing judgments and keeping people at arm's length. If someone disagrees with us, we start considering him a kaafir, conveniently ignoring that labeling people based on one's whims is an act of kufr. Although we have differences, I have noticed that somehow in some situations the people at the top of most sects overcome their differences, and intend to work unitedly as the time for maintaining distances is long gone. However, it is the followers of each sect that out of lack of knowledge get into scuffles with one another. There are people who openly declare their non-affiliation to any particular sect whatsoever (myself being one of them), and such people detach themselves totally from Muslims who claim their devotion to a group/sect. The job of such people is to not cut-off from everyone, but to rather make their presence felt in every group. As you are not linked to any one of them, you are at the liberty of being with all of them. This practice can also lead to increased communication between sects which, Allahu Alam, takes place minimally. I learned this in Ramadaan, and in sha Allah, plan on doing at least something in uniting the ummah. We are one, and we will return to The One, and we will be answerable there.
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Signor
09-06-2013, 04:29 PM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by Muhammad Zaki
What is the root cause of the division among Muslims?
Sectarianism is generally hated and discouraged in Islam but its a reality which everyone of us needs to understand.Prophecized by The Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) ; “The Jews were divided among themselves into seventy one or seventy two sects, and the Christians were divided among themselves into seventy one or seventy two sects. And My Ummah will be divided among itself into seventy three sects.” Abu Dawood, at-Tirmidhi, al-Hakim and Ahmad among several others, reported this Hadith.

Following threads can help for further understanding Insha Allah

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...taymiyyah.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...divisions.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...ing-ummah.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...i-discord.html

Originally Posted by Muhammad Zaki
How these Muslims, belonging to so many different sects, are to be united?
This Hadith with a lot of Hikmah provides the answer.

“Narrated Ali ibn Abi Talib: Al-Harith al-A’war: While passing through the Masjid I found the people engrossed in (prohibited) talk, so I went to Ali and told him. He asked if that was really so, and when I assured him that it was, he said:

I heard Allah’s Messenger say, ‘Dissension will certainly come.’ I asked him what is the way out of it, to which he replied,

“Allah’s Book is the way (out), for it contains information of what has happened before you, news of what will happen after you, and a decision regarding matters which occur among you. It is the distinguisher and is not jesting.

If any overweening person abandons it Allah will break him, and if anyone seeks guidance elsewhere Allah will lead him astray.

It is Allah’s strong cord, it is the wise reminder, it is the straight path, it is that by which the desires do not swerve nor the tongues become confused, and even the learned cannot grasp it completely.

It does not become worn out by repetition and its wonders do not come to an end.

It is that concerning which the Jinn did not hesitate to declare, when they heard it, We have heard a wonderful recital which guides to what is right, and we believe in it.

He who utters it speaks the truth, he who acts according to it is rewarded, he who pronounces judgment according to it is just, and he who invites people to it guides to a straight path.’”


In another narration

It is the God's Book (to read, reflect and act according to it), for it contains all information about what has happened to those communities before you, news of dissensions and tumults that will happen after you and and signs of doomsday (until the Day of Judgment).

Also it has the judgement regarding the matters which will occur among you (about matters such as belief-blasphemy, obedience-disobedience, what is permitted-forbidden, etc.).

It is the distinguisher between the truth and the falsehood.

It is serious in everything it mentions, there is no word in it that is excursive or digressive.

Whoever falls in absurdity by not taking notice of it and doesn’t behave according to it, God will perish him.

If anyone seeks guidance elsewhere God will lead him astray.

It is the strong rope of God, it is the reminder with wisdom, and it is the straightest path.

It protects souls who obey it from being ruined and misguidance and tongues that recite it from ambiguity.

Scholars of the Qur’an always crave more from it.

Reading it again and again never bores its reader; neither does the reader lose any taste by reading it over and over again.

Its magnificent wonders that astonish the mankind never end.

It is such a Book that, when they had heard it, the jinn could not help to confess that, “We have heard a wonderful recital (God’s word). This surely guides to the Truth and we believe in it.” (Surah al-Jinn,72/1)

He who utters it, speaks the truth.

He who acts according to it, will be rewarded.

He who pronounces judgment according to it, will be just.

He who invites people to it, will guide them to a straight path.’


Al-Tirmidhi Hadith - 651
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Muhammad Zaki
10-09-2013, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Signor
:salamext:



Sectarianism is generally hated and discouraged in Islam but its a reality which everyone of us needs to understand.Prophecized by The Messenger (SalAllahu alaihi wasallam) ; “The Jews were divided among themselves into seventy one or seventy two sects, and the Christians were divided among themselves into seventy one or seventy two sects. And My Ummah will be divided among itself into seventy three sects.” Abu Dawood, at-Tirmidhi, al-Hakim and Ahmad among several others, reported this Hadith.

Following threads can help for further understanding Insha Allah



This Hadith with a lot of Hikmah provides the answer.

“Narrated Ali ibn Abi Talib: Al-Harith al-A’war: While passing through the Masjid I found the people engrossed in (prohibited) talk, so I went to Ali and told him. He asked if that was really so, and when I assured him that it was, he said:

I heard Allah’s Messenger say, ‘Dissension will certainly come.’ I asked him what is the way out of it, to which he replied,

“Allah’s Book is the way (out), for it contains information of what has happened before you, news of what will happen after you, and a decision regarding matters which occur among you. It is the distinguisher and is not jesting.

If any overweening person abandons it Allah will break him, and if anyone seeks guidance elsewhere Allah will lead him astray.

It is Allah’s strong cord, it is the wise reminder, it is the straight path, it is that by which the desires do not swerve nor the tongues become confused, and even the learned cannot grasp it completely.

It does not become worn out by repetition and its wonders do not come to an end.

It is that concerning which the Jinn did not hesitate to declare, when they heard it, We have heard a wonderful recital which guides to what is right, and we believe in it.

He who utters it speaks the truth, he who acts according to it is rewarded, he who pronounces judgment according to it is just, and he who invites people to it guides to a straight path.’”


In another narration

It is the God's Book (to read, reflect and act according to it), for it contains all information about what has happened to those communities before you, news of dissensions and tumults that will happen after you and and signs of doomsday (until the Day of Judgment).

Also it has the judgement regarding the matters which will occur among you (about matters such as belief-blasphemy, obedience-disobedience, what is permitted-forbidden, etc.).

It is the distinguisher between the truth and the falsehood.

It is serious in everything it mentions, there is no word in it that is excursive or digressive.

Whoever falls in absurdity by not taking notice of it and doesn’t behave according to it, God will perish him.

If anyone seeks guidance elsewhere God will lead him astray.

It is the strong rope of God, it is the reminder with wisdom, and it is the straightest path.

It protects souls who obey it from being ruined and misguidance and tongues that recite it from ambiguity.

Scholars of the Qur’an always crave more from it.

Reading it again and again never bores its reader; neither does the reader lose any taste by reading it over and over again.

Its magnificent wonders that astonish the mankind never end.

It is such a Book that, when they had heard it, the jinn could not help to confess that, “We have heard a wonderful recital (God’s word). This surely guides to the Truth and we believe in it.” (Surah al-Jinn,72/1)

He who utters it, speaks the truth.

He who acts according to it, will be rewarded.

He who pronounces judgment according to it, will be just.

He who invites people to it, will guide them to a straight path.’


Al-Tirmidhi Hadith - 651

Let us come to the main points (1) Who is responsible for the division of Muslim society into so many sects, the religious leaders (2) or the common Muslims? If the former are responsible then it is their duty to endeavour and find out means to bridge the gulf among the Muslims. If they do not make a sincere attempt, then what the general Muslims should do?
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Ahmad H
10-09-2013, 05:47 PM
There is one very good reason why there is disunity among Muslims:

Without the collective readiness to sacrifice, the Ummah will be humiliated

Hadith 62, "The People will soon summon one another to attack you from every place in the same way that a pack calls around its prey" Someone asked, "Will that be because of our small numbers at that time?" He replied, "No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be froth and scum like that carried down by a torrent (of water), and Allah will take the fear of you from the breasts (hearts) of your enemy and cast al-wahn into your hearts." Someone asked, "O Messenger of Allah , what is al-wahn?" He replied, "Love of the world and dislike of death." (Ahmed)Commentary:

A: Just as a previously mentioned narration clarified that seeking material gain is not a reason for success, rather it would be a reason for failure when it comes ahead of Jihad and adhering to the deen, the number of Muslims is also not a factor for success if they are not united together and ready to sacrifice but rather like the froth on the sea.B: From the point of the dissolution of the Uthmani Khilafah, and the competition between the Europeans and Russia over the spoils and lands outside of the core territory of Turkey, the disbelievers have colonised and competed over the Muslim lands, inviting each other in their military and cultural invasions such as the UN involvement in the first gulf war, the NATO involvement in Afghanistan and the cooperation between different forces in Somalia. And it is in this manner that the enemies of the Ummah summon one another to attack in the same way as a pack of wolves around its prey.Hadith with commentary each week, taken from The Sixty Sultaniyya compiled by Abu Luqman Fathullah
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Nur Student
10-24-2013, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
The root cause of the division is that people disagree with me.
No, it is because they disagree with me, not you. :D
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
We are to be united by everyone realizing that I am right, agreeing with me,
No, I am more flexible and open-minded and righteous and ... And of course I know better than you. So, it will be far more easy if everyone follows me. :D:D



Originally Posted by Futuwwa
and electing me Caliph.
I am a better; actually the best; no, indeed the only to be elected Caliph. No one else understands and practices the religion better than I do. :D:D:D
Reply

Nur Student
10-24-2013, 03:35 AM
An Important and Awesome Question: Why is it that while the worldly and the neglectful, and even the misguided and hypocrites, co-operate without rivalry, the people of religion, the religious scholars, and those who follow the Sufi path, oppose each other in rivalry, although they are the people of truth and concord? Agreement belongs in reality to the people of concord and dispute to the hypocrites; how is it that these two have changed places?

T h e A n s w e r : We will set forth seven of the extremely numerous causes of this painful, disgraceful and awesome situation, one that causes the zealous to weep.

THE FIRST

Just as dispute among the people of the truth does not arise from lack of the truth, so too the agreement prevailing among the people of neglect does not arise from any possession of truth. Rather it is that a specific duty and particular function has been assigned to the classes in society, like ‘the worldly,’ (1) those engaged in politics, and those who have received a secular education, and thus the functions of the various groups, societies, and communities have been defined and become distinguished from one another. Similarly, the material reward they are to receive for their functions in order to maintain a livelihood, as well as the moral reward that consists in the attention they receive from men for the sake of their ambition and pride – this too is established and specified. (2) There is therefore nothing held in common to the degree that it might produce conflict, dissension and rivalry. However evil be the path that they tread, they will be able to preserve unity and agreement.

But as for the people of religion, the scholars, and those who follow the path, the duty of each is concerned with all men; their material reward is...


Dipnot-1 ‘The worldly’ (ahl-al dunya): those people whose view is restricted to the life of this world and who disregard the hereafter, or those who sell religion for this world.

Dipnot-2 Be aware that the attention of men cannot be demanded, but only given. If it is given, one should not delight in it. If one delights in it, sincerity is lost and hypocrisy takes its place. The attention of men, if accompanied by the desire for honour and fame, is not a reward and a prize, but a reproach and chastisement for lack of sincerity. Such attention of men, such honour and fame, harm sincerity, the source of vitality for all good deeds, and even though they yield a slight pleasure as far as the gate of the tomb, on the other side of that gate they take on the form of torment. One should not therefore desire the attention of men, but flee and shy away from it. Be warned, all you who worship fame and run after honour and rank!

(...)

Now the only REMEDY for the critical consequences of this awesome state consists of nine commands:

1. To act positively, that is, out of love for one’s own outlook, avoiding enmity for other outlooks, not criticizing them, interfering in their beliefs and sciences, or in any way concerning oneself with them.

2. To unite within the fold of Islam, irrespective of particular outlook, remembering those numerous ties of unity that evoke love, brotherhood and concord.

3. To adopt the just rule of conduct that the follower of any right outlook has the right to say, “My outlook is true, or the best,” but not that “My outlook alone is true,” or that “My outlook alone is good,” thus implying the falsity or repugnance of all other outlooks.

4. To consider that union with the people of truth is a cause of divine succour and the high dignity of religion.

5. To realize that the individual resistance of the most powerful person against the attacks through its genius of the mighty collective force of the people of misguidance and falsehood, which arises from their solidarity, will inevitably be defeated, and through the union of the people of truth, to create a joint and collective force also, in order to preserve justice and right in the face of that fearsome collective force of misguidance.

6. In order to preserve truth from the assaults of falsehood,7. To abandon the self and its egoism,

8. And give up the mistaken concept of self-pride,

9. And cease from all insignificant feelings aroused by rivalry.

If this ninefold rule is adhered to, sincerity will be preserved and its function perfectly performed.

(...)

From the Twentieth Flash
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ardianto
10-24-2013, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad Zaki
(1) Who is responsible for the division of Muslim society into so many sects, the religious leaders
Division in Islam happened naturally. So, no one responsible for it.

Madhab Hanafiah actually was not intentionally established by Imam Abu Hanifa. But this established naturally because people who learned Islam from him spread his knowledge of fiqh to other people.
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Jerbi
10-24-2013, 07:16 PM
I think the reason for the existence of religious sects started by the existence of political differences. These were used to further widen the gap between brothers.
Anyway , sectarian differences exist mainly in the middle east , other parts of the Muslim Ummah don't have such big differences. I mean Africa is dominated by the Maliki school of fiqh , and yet all Muslim nations in Africa tend to be nationalist , sometimes even going to war against each other. This means that ethnic differences are also very important.
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ardianto
10-25-2013, 08:16 AM
In the past when a lay Muslim started learn Islam, immediately he loves to talk about miracle of Qur'an, importance of follow sunnah, virtue of tahajjud. Nowadays when a lay Muslim start learn Islam, suddenly he loves to talk about how deviant the other Muslims are.

What the heck they teach in majlis nowadays?. :hmm:
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ardianto
10-26-2013, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
The root cause of the division is that people disagree with me. We are to be united by everyone realizing that I am right, agreeing with me, and electing me Caliph.
"Conflicts usually happen because I am right and you are wrong. Give the heart a chance to say we are right and he too may be right. In Shaa Allah, will be easy to find a solution"

KH Abdullah Gymnastiar
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greenhill
10-30-2013, 05:34 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
In the past when a lay Muslim started learn Islam, immediately he loves to talk about miracle of Qur'an, importance of follow sunnah, virtue of tahajjud. Nowadays when a lay Muslim start learn Islam, suddenly he loves to talk about how deviant the other Muslims are.

What the heck they teach in majlis nowadays?.
:D

How peculiar.... but it does happen.
Reply

ardianto
10-30-2013, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill


:D

How peculiar.... but it does happen.
What I've written is based on what I've seen on people around me, time to time.

Late of 80's. Two guys in my close circle learned Islam. Immediately they acted like da'i, gave da'wah to everyone. Early of 90's, few other guys learned Islam too. Then they love to talk about Islam although more calm.

Mid of 90's I began to hear soft critics toward other Muslim group from new learner. Still soft.

Year 2000. Someone suddenly love to criticize other group after he learned Islam. Not so long, I meet his ustadz when he gave speech in an event. I was so surprised because instead of spoke about Islam he used his time only to criticize other group!.

In next few years I heard critics more often. Now? as we see today. :heated:
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Muhammad Zaki
11-06-2013, 03:20 PM
Please dont waste your time and energy.Read the problem carefully and then try to find out and give the answer
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