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ion that dinar
10-14-2013, 08:50 AM
Regarding the understanding of factual claims.


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Think about a great individual, their impressive characteristics and most importantly their moral standards.


Then by reasoning as to whether that specific individual looks down on you. Question your understanding of the seriousness behind divine principles and the true reality of right and wrong. Beyond your recognition of it.


The ignorance which a lack of understanding can lead to may allow that individual to easily and accurately judge your personality even in pictures.


Think about why they would look down on you. Having always been known for their amazingly polite, intelligent, honest, loyal, reliable, successful, talented, pious, sensitive, cultural, and elite characteristics, they must not be transgressing against you in any way.


They don't care about a bad quality of yours, they know that a person can appear a certain way but come off completely different. Which in your case may not be a matter of appearing stylish but being Wise.


While asking yourself "what beliefs and/or dis-beliefs make me a less knowing individual and have maybe even driven me to become unconsciously unrighteous" try to not think about very basic ideas of what is to be right or wrong, such as situations where you quite frankly don't care what the truth is.


Your concept of the reality to certain claims in life is limited by not only your intelligence but mainly by your flexibility of reasoning before making conclusions. Some truths can only be figured out through enormous willpower, a loving heart, and bright ideas. While the materialistic proof of what the truth to it seems to be, is understood even by the best of men as the true reality.


In other words, it is close to impossible to teach someone the truth beyond their own perception. But if attempted, it only brings out the potential negative side.


Please everyone, ponder on the questions bellow and reason very deeply.


Why is your belief about something that you wish didn't or couldn't possibly happen, so easily concluded to be exactly what your impulse regards it to be? What could be a bright reality (truth) behind a misconceived belief? Regardless of proof.


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May The All-Merciful God expose to every sincere individual that which they would value so much that it motivates them to dwell deeper about his creation.


Peace! :D
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Berries'forest
10-14-2013, 04:10 PM
I'm not sure what would make them look down on me I wouldn't care either way and if they did all those noble characteristics they portray are most probably only a facade they use to achieve their ulterior motives and interest. They might also be suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder. They may also have lost by all means the ability to care about others, they become desensitized, detached and people around them are not there number one concern or priority anymore. I see that it's people who love to draw attention are the most displeased when people don't show interest in their lives. They go around trying to taint the other person's image because they don't kiss the grass they walk on. It's pathetic perhaps they should realize that people don't care about them more than they care about themselves. Reality is what you make it to be and really from a purely individualistic point of view it's your world and we all just live in it. What you experience is your reality and it may or may not have anything to do with the truth.

Why is your belief about something that you wish didn't or couldn't possibly happen, so easily concluded to be exactly what your impulse regards it to be? What could be a bright reality (truth) behind a misconceived belief? Regardless of proof.
If I understand this correctly, I think that my beliefs are shaped by my measurement of what weighs more truth than another. There can be a number of set beliefs for me to choose from and I would most probably chose the one that not only compliments my standards of what should be right. For example if one of my beliefs is Might is right. Then everything else I encounter that hold relevance will be measured against my belief and then I will most likely accept/adopt belief which accommodate my original beliefs and decline the ones that do.
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ion that dinar
10-14-2013, 05:06 PM
It seemed like a waste of time replying because your outlook is completely negative in this particular situation. But because what you are saying are possible characteristics of some "evil" person which may give people a positive idea, it can be made worthwhile.
Originally Posted by Berries'forest
I'm not sure what would make them look down on me I wouldn't care either way and if they did all those noble characteristics they portray are most probably only a facade they use to achieve their ulterior motives and interest. They might also be suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder. They may also have lost by all means the ability to care about others, they become desensitized, detached and people around them are not there number one concern or priority anymore.
What you're doing in this quoted text is talking about an imaginary person, or one you know of, whom you should not talk about because in my article it clearly states to think of a "great" individual.
I see that it's people who love to draw attention are the most displeased when people don't show interest in their lives. They go around trying to taint the other person's image because they don't kiss the grass they walk on. It's pathetic perhaps they should realize that people don't care about them more than they care about themselves.
Quite the insight. This is a bit of a deeper way to describe a tyrant of some sort. Maybe it is good to those who have evil friends, it may open their eyes. But this isn't necessary to think about.
Reality is what you make it to be and really from a purely individualistic point of view it's your world and we all just live in it.
When has reality ever been what one makes it to be? Sometimes that can be true but it is a foul way to talk to people about reality. Some very amazing individuals don't see the apparent reality as a joke, they spent their lives avoiding displeasing acts and scenes, instead of resolving on it being a matter of personal point of view.

The people who always think this way become negative and easy to justify their actions of indecent behavior. Behavior that someone who sees reality more materialistically would consider bad. Should they be the better person in this case?
What you experience is your reality and it may or may not have anything to do with the truth.
What one experiences may very well be a reality having nothing to do with the truth it that may be recognized to be. That is correct but not clearly specified on your part.

Reality after all isn't fully what one makes it to be. Otherwise why would one repent for anything? Why not turn the action into something positive?

We only hope that certain things are a delusion, and others unreal.

Peace. Thanks for your cool input :D
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ion that dinar
10-14-2013, 05:22 PM
Hopefully you don't edit your post again, lol.
Originally Posted by Berries'forest
If I understand this correctly, I think that my beliefs are shaped by my measurement of what weighs more truth than another. There can be a number of set beliefs for me to choose from and I would most probably chose the one that not only compliments my standards of what should be right. For example if one of my beliefs is Might is right. Then everything else I encounter that hold relevance will be measured against my belief and then I will most likely accept/adopt belief which accommodate my original beliefs and decline the ones that do.
Well yeah, a person who's certain about their belief can find more reasons to believe it.

But, what you quoted is supposed to raise awareness towards realizing that someones belief may be false even if they have materialistic proof. Regardless if the whole world believes it to be something they take for granted because of their ignorance. Or their lack of reasoning, cruel judgement, unasked questions, insincere outlook.

Peace.
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Berries'forest
10-14-2013, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by ion that dinar
It seemed like a waste of time replying because your outlook is completely negative in this particular situation. But because what you are saying are possible characteristics of some "evil" person which may give people a positive idea, it can be made worthwhile.
That's harsh...

What you're doing in this quoted text is talking about an imaginary person, or one you know of, whom you should not talk about because in my article it clearly states to think of a "great" individual.
It's not an imaginary person it is the hypothetical one you created. For one I wasn't backbiting because there's not one single person specifically I was referring to in my head. I was trying to give you reasons why one would be this way. You did ask that why such a 'great' person whatever that means would look down on you. It's either me who has the problem maybe for example I did something they don't approve of or them. Would a great person look down on others?. I don't consider people who look down on others great. And besides what constitutes a great person to you may not constitute one for me. What matters is the sincerity of actions and not the exterior excercise of actions.

Quite the insight. This is a bit of a deeper way to describe a tyrant of some sort. Maybe it is good to those who have evil friends, it may open their eyes. But this isn't necessary to think about.
Hmm..why do I detect sarcasm here.

Originally Posted by ion that dinar
When has reality ever been what one makes it to be? Sometimes that can be true but it is a foul way to talk to people about reality. Some very amazing individuals don't see the apparent reality as a joke, they spent their lives avoiding displeasing acts and scenes, instead of resolving on it being a matter of personal point of view.

The people who always think this way become negative and easy to justify their actions of indecent behavior. Behavior that someone who sees reality more materialistically would consider bad. Should they be the better person in this case?
You can't really describe reality. If I was blind for example and you asked me to describe what the color orange looks like, my view point or my reality of the color is what I come out of it to be. I am not materialistic and this is by no mean a nihilistic approach to this matter. The way you and I see the world is different, an economist would have different reality of how things work in comparison to a philosophical scholar. What I'm saying is it's relative. I wasn't justifying any indecent behavior you are proposing abstract notions and ideas and I'm discussing them with you. When I said make it out to be i mean perceive. I can in fact make my reality one of gardens and springs I may refuse to live by the standards people live in and have my own bubble which I consider is the truth. Does that make my bubble more viable to be considered the truth?. Hardly, no one single person can give you the same universal description of what reality is. It's what you perceive it to be other wise we wouldn't have people others are refer to as living in their own world and reality.

Reality after all isn't fully what one makes it to be. Otherwise why would one repent for anything? Why not turn the action into something positive
I'm not sure I follow, i think you're confusing reality with another abstract idea I suspect you mean determinism. Reality doesn't hinder your repentance, it doesn't force you or inhibit you from taking action or making a choice. It's just there, reality. For it was once reality that the Earth was considered flat but in actual terms it never was although it realistically was a long time ago, according to the reality of people who live at the time.

Thank you too.
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Berries'forest
10-14-2013, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by ion that dinar
Hopefully you don't edit your post again, lol.
Well yeah, a person who's certain about their belief can find more reasons to believe it.

But, what you quoted is supposed to raise awareness towards realizing that someones belief may be false even if they have materialistic proof. Regardless if the whole world believes it to be something they take for granted because of their ignorance. Or their lack of reasoning, cruel judgement, unasked questions, insincere outlook.

Peace.
Is that an agreement?. I wasn't editing my post by the way.
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M.I.A.
10-14-2013, 08:36 PM
take a look at the story of prophet moses pbuh and his meeting with a man under guidance, its in the quran.

it pretty much turns everything you thought you knew about morality upside down on its head.


...at least it did for me.
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ion that dinar
10-15-2013, 06:13 AM
take a look at the story of prophet moses pbuh and his meeting with a man under guidance, its in the quran.


it pretty much turns everything you thought you knew about morality upside down on its head.




...at least it did for me.
Hmm, that may be for one who needs to improve their morals. You may not have asked yourself if the person you're giving advice has recited that story many times. Do you suspect someone here doesn't have good morals? My strictness of avoiding anything bad or irritable/wasteful is extreme. Coupled with respect for real muslims and all sincere reasonable strangers to Islam.

The topic is about understanding the truth/reality behind factual myths/claims, not morals, the article assumes that the reader has at least decent morals and is meant only to give hope to someone who may have a broken heart because people convinced them that something happened for other than what the true reality behind it is, a reality that is beyond what ones perception shows.

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So now Berries theory would work too, except they aren't properly utilizing it, and instead, irresponsibly. Because they are making out reality to be anything one wants to only because it's theoretically possible and then trying to make a point, as if that idea takes more than 2nd grade brains to come to.

In a situation where a blind man doesn't know what color something it is, he just doesn't know until he recognizes it to be a certain color. Insignificant things such as what an object really is, is simply what you see it to be, it doesn't even matter what it may be outside of this reality because we are inside of this reality. But there may be a case of delusions, painful projections, situations in which something heartbreaking occurs, the reality of these kind of incidents are worthy and appropriate to investigate and maybe by Almighty God's grace come to find that the truth is not what it was made out to be.

If a seeing man sees a picture of their friend sitting with a very well known figure, it may be fake but look 100% real, and now to dwell deeper into this, even if people saw them with that person, what they saw may not have been what it seemed to be. But this would be unimportant, no one would care about it nor is it in this specific example appropriate for someone to go on examining the reality of anothers personal ties.

Berries replies are mostly answered by the same quote she is arguing against. The above is a sum of what was worth working with. It is nice that people have different outlooks, but it is not nice to suspect, criticize, and determine what someone is like or what they need to know until bringing up the reason.


Peace, thanks for reading. Much love.
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M.I.A.
10-22-2013, 04:15 PM
it is not only a story about morality.

in fact it pretty much answers all you have asked about.

the concept of god.

self rightousness.

morality and character, within a social subtext.

social situations and there perception.

the truth of the reality.

..and also your first post, i cant tell you anything that you dont already know.

..because it would obviously bring the worst out of you.


i talked to a friend for like 15 minutes the other night and the only thing that stuck in my head was a few words that he said.

they summed up all that i had said ...and in a better way.

you live and learn.

if your going to ponder over anything, start with the questioning of the quran.

i mean if thats all you think about, sooner or later you will figure out how it works.

what becomes of you is only with allah swt.
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