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truthseeker63
12-05-2013, 11:48 PM
Nelson Mandela, revered statesman and anti-apartheid leader, dies at 95

http://news.yahoo.com/nelson-mandela...214057711.html

I am sorry to hear that Nelson Mandela has died he did a lot of good to free South Africa from the Racism of Apartheid South Africa.
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Taabuu
12-06-2013, 05:34 AM
May he rest in peace..








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جوري
12-06-2013, 05:53 AM
I am sad he died a Non-Muslim for he was indeed a good man.
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Muhaba
12-06-2013, 06:15 AM
^what a tragedy to die as nonmuslim.
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sister herb
12-06-2013, 07:11 AM
May rest he in peace.

Thanks for his endless work for better and more tolerance world.
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glo
12-06-2013, 07:41 AM
A great man indeed, who has changed and touched many lives.

What does Islam teach about a man like Nelson Mandela, who was a good man but died (presumably) a non-Muslim?
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Eric H
12-06-2013, 07:54 AM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

No doubt presidents from around the world will acknowledge the deeds of Nelson Mandela, sadly they do not have the wisdom or the courage, to do as he has done.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our world

Eric
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Taabuu
12-06-2013, 09:40 AM
Today the world lost one of the true giants of the past century. Nelson Mandela was a man of incomparable honor, unconquerable strength, and unyielding resolve—a saint to many, a hero to all who treasure liberty, freedom and the dignity of humankind. As we remember his triumphs, let us, in his memory, not just reflect on how far we’ve come, but on how far we have to go. Madiba may no longer be with us, but his journey continues on with me and with all of us.
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Independent
12-06-2013, 11:25 AM
The truly exceptional quality about Mandela is the way he spent all those years in prison, yet he came out with less bitterness than when he went in. I never saw a revengeful act or word from him. What strength.

(And compare it to the little man next door that is Mugabe.)

His life is also a great example of how a peaceful strategy can beat a violent one. He began his career using terrorist tactics and got nowhere. In later life, his peaceful tactics and generosity swept all before him.

South Africa is a far more prosperous country today because he won by peaceful means, than if he had won by war.
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Muhaba
12-06-2013, 01:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
A great man indeed, who has changed and touched many lives.

What does Islam teach about a man like Nelson Mandela, who was a good man but died (presumably) a non-Muslim?
Islam teaches that they will be in Hell, if they did know about islam and yet didn't become Muslims or if they were polytheists. The biggest example is Prophet Muhammad's uncle Abu Talib who helped Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم all his life but didn't accept Islam. Abu Talib died an idolator. The Prophet will intercede for him on the Day of Judgment but his intercession will not take Abu Talib out of Hell. A hadith states that due to the Prophet's intercession, Abu Talib will have the least punishment in hell. His feet will be in coal and with this, his brains will boil.

Of course, we can't say what the end of Nelson Mandela will be because his inner faith is known to God alone. Was he Christian? Did he commit polytheism (by making Jessu God or equal to God or God's son)? Did he reject Islam? etc.
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glo
12-06-2013, 01:43 PM
A Muslim friend of mine wrote this:

"If we establish that being Muslim is "one who surrenders to God," I think we'll likely find out on the Day of Judgement that there are some Muslims who may find out they really were not, there may be some non-Muslims who find out that they embodied what it means to surrender oneself to the Almighty and they may indeed find out that they are "Muslim."
Even the Quran says in 2:62: "The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians—all those who believes in God and the Last Day and do good deeds—will have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve."
Personally I see deeds mean quite a lot, human labels mean nothing. In the end, God and only God will judge. There likely will be some people considered Muslims who end up in Hell, there are likely non-Muslims who will end up in heaven. God knows best."


Would you agree?

It is amazing to hear and understand just how much loved Nelson Mandela was - and not just by his own people.

Independent, I agree. Anybody who can be wrongfully imprisoned for 27 years and come out without bitterness is a remarkable person indeed!
He is quoted to have said this:
“As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I'd still be in prison.”
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YusufNoor
12-06-2013, 02:08 PM
Allah subhanna wa ta aala decides who gets Jannah, not the Muslims.

if you're sad that someone died as a non-Muslim, what excuse will you give to Allah?

the reason there are so many nonMuslims in the world can be traced to one simple thing, the Muslims.

how do we know that Allah won't reject our Islam, thus providing all the non-believers with an excuse for not accepting what was seen to be Islam by them.

i saw a lecture by a sheikh that i really, really like. when asked about Mother Teresa, he said that she's going to hell because she wasn't a Muslim! astargfirullah!
he caught himself a few minutes later and clarified that we don't actually know, Allah knows.

if it's sad that that there are so many nonMuslims, the state of the Muslims is sadder by far...

ma salaama
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Muhaba
12-06-2013, 02:16 PM
It breaks my heart every time when I think that Abu Talib will go to Hell. What he did for our Prophet means more to us than what anyone else might have done in the world. But that doesn't change the facts. He died a disbeliever and not even Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم , to whom he was most dear, can help him.

It's true that a person's belief is known to Allah alone and only Allah will decide who deserves Heaven and who deserves hell. Also, only Allah knows a person's faith at the time of death. But it is also true that those who reject Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم ,after learning about him, are disbelievers. In Islam, only belief in One God is not enough. It is also necessary for a person to believe that Prophet Muhammad was the final Messenger and Prophet of God. Those who don't, even if they otherwise surrender to God, are not Muslims. Those who reject Prophet Muhammad (don't believe in him) are disbelievers, kafir.

Only God knows Nelson Mandela's faith and end. We not judging that. We should only be concerned about our own end. And that is why it's important to know that those who reject one or both parts of the testimony of faith are kafir and will go to hell. The testimony of faith (shahada) is "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."
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Pygoscelis
12-06-2013, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WRITER
Islam teaches that they will be in Hell, if they did know about islam and yet didn't become Muslims or if they were polytheists. The biggest example is Prophet Muhammad's uncle Abu Talib who helped Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم all his life but didn't accept Islam. Abu Talib died an idolator. The Prophet will intercede for him on the Day of Judgment but his intercession will not take Abu Talib out of Hell. A hadith states that due to the Prophet's intercession, Abu Talib will have the least punishment in hell. His feet will be in coal and with this, his brains will boil.
So basically the same as the Christian view. ---
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greenhill
12-06-2013, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
He began his career using terrorist tactics and got nowhere. In later life, his peaceful tactics and generosity swept all before him.
He was peaceful at first, exploiting the law (he was a lawyer) got arrested several times but charges never stuck. Later he resorted to terror and got imprisoned, for life. That was until his release.


format_quote Originally Posted by glo
What does Islam teach about a man like Nelson Mandela, who was a good man but died (presumably) a non-Muslim?
Glo,

It has never been our place to assume anything like that. That is entirely between him and Allah. Which reminds me that it is also not guaranteed that I would die a muslim. That possibility scares me if I entertain it too much, but it is a good realisation to have in mind.

Allah is THE "MAALIKI YAUMIDDIIN" The Master of Doomsday, (3rd line of the al-Fatihah) and we will all be His servants powerless unto ourselves. Then we will realise our folly, where we lost out for our intentions, and how much of it was that, and how much by our loose lips, eyes etc.... The 'jihad' starts within and it is your road to Allah. Anyone else's road is their road and I can only pray to Allah to have mercy on them.

Peace :shade:
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Pygoscelis
12-06-2013, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WRITER
^Go ahead. Laugh it off. You won't be laughing much when you find yourself in hell.
If not laugh, I'd have to cry. Here we have a thread about somebody who has done such great humanitarian work as Nelson Mandela and yet people here say he deserves eternal suffering, just because he doesn't share their particular world view.
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sister herb
12-06-2013, 05:09 PM
^^ Don´t you generalize now when writing as "people here say he deserves eternal suffering"? Whose are those people in this thread whose have wrote that? We all? Or just one? I was thinking that "people" is a plural form... maybe my bad English again.

^o)
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Eric H
12-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

I have listened to comments by George Bush Snr and Jnr, Obama, Tony Blair, David Cameron, they all admired Nelson Mandela, None of them had the courage to do as he had done, and their lives were not even under threat.

Nelson said he would die for his beliefs, it seems all these other leaders squash their own morals, to do the things they do, none of them had the courage to stand as Nelson Mandela stood.

When any of the above leaders die, they will not receive the recognition that Mandela receives, yet they are all more powerful than he ever was.

In the spirit of praying for moral courage for all our leaders

Eric
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Jedi_Mindset
12-06-2013, 06:40 PM
It makes me sick to the core that the hypocrite leaders of the west are 'mourning' about him, while nelson mandela both critized them and critized israel. Mandela was a great man, he never was a terrorist, was he muslim? Allah knows best, wee dont know his heart. Islam defeated apartheid and racism 1400 years ago and this is why I accepted it. While south africa is recovering from apartheid, there is still one country in the middle east practicing it, its easy to guess which one.

Our ummah has his own heroes, 100x more better than Mandela (not implying mandela wasnt one). The prophets (peace be upon them) are our biggest heroes.

While we mourn about his death there are amongst us people dying everyday with the intention to defend this Deen and our ummah.
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sister herb
12-06-2013, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

I have listened to comments by George Bush Snr and Jnr, Obama, Tony Blair, David Cameron, they all admired Nelson Mandela, None of them had the courage to do as he had done, and their lives were not even under threat.

Nelson said he would die for his beliefs, it seems all these other leaders squash their own morals, to do the things they do, none of them had the courage to stand as Nelson Mandela stood.

When any of the above leaders die, they will not receive the recognition that Mandela receives, yet they are all more powerful than he ever was.

In the spirit of praying for moral courage for all our leaders

Eric
When those leaders you mentioned will die, the history remember them about the wars they started or took part. May history also remember the innocent victims what they wars caused.
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glo
12-06-2013, 07:47 PM
A satirical article, suggesting that Mandela will be the FIRST politician ever to be missed. :p

Following the death of former South African president and civil rights leader Nelson Mandela today at the age of 95, sources confirmed that the revered humanitarian has become the first politician in recorded history to actually be missed. “Today we lost not only an international hero and a symbol of the resilient human spirit, but also the very first political figure ever who people actively wish was still alive and affecting world affairs,”
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nel...be-miss,34755/
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sister herb
12-06-2013, 09:55 PM
^^ This is actually very possible.
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Muhammad
12-07-2013, 01:08 AM
Greetings,

We've had numerous discussions on the question of non-Muslims going to Hell, so there's no need to turn this thread into a repeat of former threads:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...aven-hell.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...onmuslims.html

Regarding the incident of when Nelson Mandela was released from prison and forgave his oppressors, it is an interesting event as it resonates with the example of the Prophet :saws: when he returned to his home city of Makkah, home to his bitterest enemies who had spared no effort in trying to harm him, asking God to forgive them and without desiring bloodshed. He too led the way for social reform and justice, such as changing attitudes to slavery and prohibiting practices such as infanticide.
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Muhaba
12-07-2013, 04:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
If not laugh, I'd have to cry. Here we have a thread about somebody who has done such great humanitarian work as Nelson Mandela and yet people here say he deserves eternal suffering, just because he doesn't share their particular world view.
Did I say he deserves hell? no, I didn't. What I said repeatedly is that only God knows his faith and what his end is.

And I don't see why doing humanitarian work should make any difference regarding the Hereafter. It doesn't make much difference as far as human-made boundaries are concerned. Illegal residents aren't allowed to stay in a country based on their humanitarian work so why should anyone be allowed to enter Heaven only on the basis of humanitarian work?

God requires a person to believe in His commandments. God said that the only religion He will accept is Islam. A person's entry to Heaven is based on his/her Islamic faith and actions. Just as a person's entry to a country is with a valid visa, so a person's entry to Heaven is with the Islamic faith. Is it okay to overlook boundaries set by God but not boundaries set by man? Is it all right to demand that God change His rules and allow all people to enter Heaven but it's not right to demand man to change his rules and allow every person to enter a particular country?
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Pygoscelis
12-07-2013, 07:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by WRITER
Did I say he deserves hell? no, I didn't. What I said repeatedly is that only God knows his faith and what his end is.
You've said repeatedly that you worship and endorse and praise a God that would justly send him to hell if he doesn't believe as you do, despite how good he is or what good he does, have you not? You clearly value belief and obedience over morality.
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sister herb
12-07-2013, 08:33 AM
^^ I see your comments quite illogical. If you are atheist as you claim, "places" like Heaven or Hell shouldn´t even exist in your mind but still you are worry if others may wonder who goes to which places. Isn´t it just same to the atheist if someone talks about those "places" which should to be just a kind of example of wild imagination to you (reality to those whose believe)?

If people whose believe God, think that it is God and only God who makes decisions of others final destination and you think it is wrong way to believe by that way, then... Who should make that decision? Nobody as those "places" doesn´t even exist of mind of atheist? So whatś the problem of yours? Or do you really believe that Heaven and Hell exist? If yes, are you sure you really are atheist? Because then it seems you believe those places are real...

:D
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ardianto
12-07-2013, 09:24 AM
For Indonesia, Nelson Mandela is not only revered statesman and anti-apartheid leader from South Africa, but he is also regarded as "the ambassador of batik shirt".

In 1990, not so long after released from prison, Nelson Mandela visited Indonesia as state guest, and he received special gift from president Soeharto, three pieces of batik shirt, Indonesian national shirt. Nelson Mandela love the image pattern of these batik shirts. So he ordered an African designer to make shirts with pattern that refer of Indonesian batik for him, which then popular as Madiba shirt. As an appreciation, later Indonesian government sent him batik shirts which designed by Indonesian batik maestro, Iwan Tirta.





May he rest in peace.
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~Zaria~
12-07-2013, 10:11 AM
:salam:


South Africa has lost one of its greatest personalities in our national history.

Personally, I take away the following from the life of Nelson Mandela:

1. His life represented, amongst other qualities: Complete and utter selflessness.
Its a quality that is in very short supply today, and so when we hear about someone, who sacrificed so much for the sake of others, it often takes our breathes away....
Nelson Mandela was a qualified attorney, married and with kids. Although he experienced the injustices of apartheid along with the rest of his people, one could appreciate that he was in a relatively more comfortable position than many others. Perhaps, he could have left the country for greener pastures, as he had the means to do so.

Yet, he willingly gave this all up - much for the benefit of others.
He lost almost 3 decades of the prime of his life behind bars.
In this time, he endured various forms of mental and physical torture (which resulted in permanent damage to his eyes and lungs, endured from the limestone mines on Robben Island). After imprisonment, his wife at the time, Winnie Mandela, was not allowed contact with him for 8 years, and thereafter was only allowed one family visit and letter every ~6 months. Prisoners were also not allowed to see children under the age of 16 - so he missed out on most of his children's lives, while being behind bars....

These are just some of the sacrifices that he made....it in no way does justice to all that he, as well as his comrades, sacrificed for this country and its people.

2. He struggled for a cause that was close to his heart - he believed in it, and he never sold out, or took the easier road even when he had the chance to do so.
(Not many people know, that during his imprisonment on Robben Island, he was offered numerous opportunities of freedom - in return of leaving behind military struggle against apartheid. He could have succumbed....he could have walked free. But, he refused each and every time!)

At the Rivonia trial, he concluded with these historic words:
"During my lifetime I have dedicated myself to this struggle of the African people. I have fought against White domination, and I have fought against Black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities.

It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."


I think that if we look into own lives, we should ask ourselves: Do we have a cause that we are fighting for so passionately?
As muslims, do we even use half of our energies in the path of Islam - for its dawah and development?
Is there even any 'worldly' good cause that we hold, that we are willing to put as much effort as possible to make a positive and enduring difference?

3. The challenges that come with life often seem insurmountable,
And we often think to ourselves - I'm too small to make a difference....or, This evil is too wide-spread, whats the point of even trying?...

In the words, and actions of the late Nelson Mandela: “It always seems impossible until it’s done.”

So too, by the will of Allah, South Africa found liberation from minority white, oppressive rule - after decades of struggle, thousands of lives lost and even more, scarred for many generations by a lack of adequate education and basic needs of living.
It didnt seem possible, but it happened - by Allah's will, and by the efforts of those who knew that both individually, and collectively, change can happen.

It may not occur over-night.
And there may be much losses experienced in its path.

But nothing great ever happened - without a lot struggle.


3. The history of South Africa, and the story of Nelson Mandela highlights that:

a) A tyrannical rule will ALWAYS fall.....Its just a matter of time.

b) Allah can turn circumstances in such a way, that the oppressed become the rulers and the 'terrorist' becomes the hero, and is loved the world over. (Nelson Mandela was only removed from the United States list of 'terrorists' in 2008).

The Pharoahs of the past collapsed.....and they will continue to collapse!

^ And in a similar manner, we should always have hope that Allah can turn our own individual lives around - even when we cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. Its a matter of us bearing patience, perserverance, making the necessary effort, and then trusting in His ultimate plan.


4. Over the course of yesterday, South African TV and radio stations shut down all productions and advertising, and dedicated every minute in 'Celebrating the life of Nelson Mandela'.

His home and many other landmarks were flooded by well-wishers, flowers, cards and other forms of greetings.
People from all colors, religions and backgrounds united by virtue of this iconic man and the legacy that he leaves behind, for the rest of us to enjoy.

And yet, somewhere through the broadcasts, I found myself crying for him.

Not because of his death and departure from this world (as this was expected for the past few months already).

But because, what matters more than ones accomplishments in life, is their accomplishment in the next life.
The world may be 'celebrating his life'.....but, does it matter at all if the actual purpose of this life has not been fulfilled?

If the King of Kings and the Judge of all Judges is ultimately not pleased - because He was not recognized in the process - then the judgements of the 'mini-judges' (ourselves), amounts to naught.

The tears stem from the fact that as muslims, we do not desire to see any other fellow human in the fires of jahannum.
(Even the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) was deeply saddened upon the demise of his uncle Abu Talib, as a non-muslim).

However, we believe that Allah is the BEST of all Judges - and He alone knows what was in the heart of the late Nelson Mandela.
In his later years, I am not aware of him ever proclaiming his following to a particular religion (even though he was born into a Christian family), and so, I think that we should leave it to Allah (subhanawataála) to judge his convictions and actions in the most fair and just manner that exists.


(Please allow this thread to be focused upon the life and contributions that the late Nelson Mandela made to society, rather than turning this into a discussion on the final abode of non-muslims.

As indicated by brother Muhammad, there are other threads that have served this purpose. And also to note that the decree of Allah is clear - it is not up for our limited intellects to debate its merits.)


:wa:
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Taabuu
12-07-2013, 10:38 AM
e

Siphiwe Sibeko / Reuters

7. On the U.S. war with Iraq:

“If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.”
Via cbsnews.com

6. On Israel:

“Israel should withdraw from all the areas which it won from the Arabs in 1967, and in particular Israel should withdraw completely from the Golan Heights, from south Lebanon and from the West Bank.”
Via jweekly.com

5. On the U.S. war with Iraq:


“All that (Mr. Bush) wants is Iraqi oil.”
Via cbsnews.com

4. Mandela on Castro and the Cuban revolution:


“From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of
inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orquestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution. … Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro.”

Via lanic.utexas.edu

3. Mandela on Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, his longtime supporter:


“It is our duty to give support to the brother leader … especially in regards to the sanctions which are not hitting just him, they are hitting the ordinary masses of the people … our African brothers and sisters.”
Via finalcall.com

2. On the U.S. preparing to invade Iraq in a 2002 interview with Newsweek:


“If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace.”
Via newsweek.com

1. On a Palestinian state:


“The UN took a strong stand against apartheid; and over the years, an international consensus was built, which helped to bring an end to this iniquitous system. But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”



These Are The 7 Quotes of Nelson Mandela Which You Won't Propably See In The US Media:hmm:
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muslimah bird
12-07-2013, 11:37 AM
You've said repeatedly that you worship and endorse and praise a God that would justly send him to hell if he doesn't believe as you do, despite how good he is or what good he does, have you not? You clearly value belief and obedience over morality.
It doesnt matter how good he is or what he does .If he chose to reject and believe in God , God will send them to hell. Simple as that
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Jedi_Mindset
12-07-2013, 12:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah bird
It doesnt matter how good he is or what he does .If he chose to reject and believe in God , God will send them to hell. Simple as that
But we dont know if he did or didnt, so leave this case.
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Muhaba
12-07-2013, 02:21 PM
^ That is right. Allah knows their case and He will decide among such people on the Day of Judgment. We should be more worried about our own end instead of discussing the end of deceased people. Prophet Musa (AS) was asked by Pharaoh about Pharaoh's forefathers. Prophet Musa replied that their knowledge was with Allah and Allah never forgot and never erred. (Taha, verses 51 - 52)
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muslimah bird
12-07-2013, 02:24 PM
But we dont know if he did or didnt, so leave this case.
Yes we dont know .Only Allah knows. I was only responding to pyro who seems to suggest that nelson's good political work will grant him a free ticket to Jannah.
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~Zaria~
12-07-2013, 02:52 PM
A Comprehensive Look into the Life of Nelson Mandela and South Africa's struggle from Apartheid:



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سيف الله
12-10-2013, 05:34 PM
Salaam

A good man has died, but the eulogising has been way over the top imo.

Here's an alternative view. Don't entirely agree with it but interesting nevertheless.

A hero we shamefully ignored

A great tidal wave of syrup swept across the surface of the Earth as soon as the death of Nelson Mandela was announced. I am sure Mandela himself would have been embarrassed by it. One of the many good things about him was his modesty. Another was his genuine forgiveness of those who had wronged him.

May he rest in peace. It is those who overpraise him who are my targets here. He simply was not the perfect being they claim.

He chose to adopt the path of violence. He did not have to. Apartheid South Africa was a political and moral slum, but many fought it without resorting to gun or bomb.

And it is not just nasty, reactionary me making this point. Amnesty International, that great campaign for silenced and imprisoned voices of liberty, took up a then-peaceful Mandela’s case in 1962. But after his turn to violent tactics, the British group reluctantly decided that he could no longer be called a prisoner of conscience.

For years the African National Congress has used Mandela as window-dressing. It’s not a nice organisation. Its armed wing, Spear of the Nation, is notorious for its brutality.

The ANC was dominated at every level by the South African Communist Party, the most rigidly Stalinist movement outside North Korea, and grovelling supporters of Kremlin repression.

This is the real point of the whole exaggerated Mandela cult. Anyone looking at the world in the second half of the 20th Century could see that the harshest and cruellest regimes on the planet were Left-wing ones, in Moscow, Peking and Havana. But the fashionable Western Left will never admit that. They are interested only in ‘Right-wing’ repression and secretly think that Left-wing oppression might actually be justified.

That is why there was nothing like this fuss on the death of another giant of human liberation, Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Solzhenitsyn was at least as great as Mandela – and, in my view, greater.

He never wielded anything more deadly than a typewriter, yet he brought down an Evil Empire, with all its concentration camps, tanks, guns and bombs. But when he died in August 2008, I don’t recall hours of eulogies on the BBC, or his face on every front page. Ask yourselves why.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

A video chronicling what its like to live in the new South Africa.

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muslimah bird
12-14-2013, 02:20 PM
He never wielded anything more deadly than a typewriter, yet he brought down an Evil Empire, with all its concentration camps, tanks, guns and bombs. But when he died in August 2008, I don’t recall hours of eulogies on the BBC, or his face on every front page. Ask yourselves why.
Reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi who used to use non-violent means for fighting for freedom. In South Africa, Gandhi faced the discrimination directed at all coloured people. He was thrown off a train after refusing to move from the first-class. He protested and was allowed on first class the next day . Travelling farther on by stagecoach, he was beaten by a driver for refusing to move to make room for a European passenger. He suffered other hardships on the journey as well, including being barred from several hotels. In another incident, the magistrate of a Durban court ordered Gandhi to remove his turban, which he refused to do
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Independent
12-14-2013, 04:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
He never wielded anything more deadly than a typewriter, yet he brought down an Evil Empire,
That's a serious overstatement of Solzhenitsyn's impact. Whereas Mandela was the crucial figure in the actual moment of political change. Had he not been there, peaceful handover would not have occurred.

format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
For years the African National Congress has used Mandela as window-dressing. It’s not a nice organisation. Its armed wing, Spear of the Nation, is notorious for its brutality.
What South Africa needs is a genuine multi party democracy. The ANC have an effective monopoly on power. And absolute power corrupts absolutely. The voters need to have sufficient maturity to stop voting for the ANC every time, just because they were the freedom fighters historically.

Whereas in ireland for instance, Sein Fein fought the war, but it's Fiana Fail or Fiana Gael that win the vote.
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Signor
12-14-2013, 06:05 PM
I have discovered the secret that after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. I have taken a moment here to rest, to steal a view of the glorious vista that surrounds me, to look back on the distance I have come. But I can rest only for a moment, for with freedom comes responsibilities, and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not yet ended.
-Nelson Mandela
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~Zaria~
12-15-2013, 08:03 AM
:salam:

format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Salaam
A good man has died, but the eulogising has been way over the top imo.
I agree.

To make matters worse, the memorial service itself, became a bit of circus - with key note speakers arriving over 2 hours late, poor sound quality in the stadium (which meant that the crowd often became unruly, and were singing during presidential speeches), current South African President Zuma being booed (while Obama, who carries more blood on his hands than many other presidents, receiving the loudest applause :hmm:).....and what could be more embarrassing than a sign language interpretor, signing complete nonsense :hiding: (reportedly as a result of a psychotic episode related to schizophrenia. The organization responsible for hiring him, has however, since disappeared).

In a way, those few hours reflected the state of our country - chaos, corruption and a population that is largely 'asleep' to what is going on in the rest of the world.


format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
Here's an alternative view. Don't entirely agree with it but interesting nevertheless......

// He chose to adopt the path of violence. He did not have to. Apartheid South Africa was a political and moral slum, but many fought it without resorting to gun or bomb.
I have not had the chance to watch the video, but just wanted to make a few comments on the above article.

Unfortunately, it is a pretty shallow understanding of the political history of this country, and the road taken to reach the point of military tactics by the ANC.

The following extracts do not do justice in explaining this, but may provide a better understanding overall in shaa Allah:


In 1952, the ANC began preparation for a joint Defiance Campaign against apartheid with Indian and communist groups, founding a National Voluntary Board to recruit volunteers.

Deciding on a path of nonviolent resistance influenced by Mahatma Gandhi, some considered it the ethical option, but Mandela instead considered it pragmatic.[75] At a Durban rally on 22 June, Mandela addressed an assembled crowd of 10,000, initiating the campaign protests, for which he was arrested and briefly interned in Marshall Square prison.[76]

With further protests, the ANC's membership grew from 20,000 to 100,000; the government responded with mass arrests, introducing the Public Safety Act, 1953 to permit martial law.[77]

One needs to recognize the level of oppression and police brutality at the time.

Is it possible to continue in passive resistance, when your own people are being falsely imprisoned, tortured and murdered?

There is no nation that will continue to watch in silence, or continue to adopt 'passive' means of protest in this instance.

Even in the history of the spread of Islam - there was a time for peaceful negotiations......and then too, there was a time for military battle in the path of truth, and for the sake of Allah.


Congress of the People and the Treason Trial: 1955–1961

Mandela came to the opinion that the ANC "had no alternative to armed and violent resistance" after taking part in the unsuccessful protest to prevent the demolition of the all-black Sophiatown suburb of Johannesburg in February 1955.[86]

A summarized history of the military wing led by Nelson Mandela:


Inspired by Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, in 1961 Mandela co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe ("Spear of the Nation", abbreviated MK) with Sisulu and the communist Joe Slovo.

Becoming chairman of the militant group, he gained ideas from illegal literature on guerilla warfare by Mao and Che Guevara. Officially separate from the ANC, in later years MK became the group's armed wing.[105] Most early MK members were white communists....

Operating through a cell structure, MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present.

Mandela himself stated that they chose sabotage not only because it was the least harmful action, but also "because it did not involve loss of life [and] it offered the best hope for reconciliation among the races afterward."

He noted that "strict instructions were given to members of MK that we would countenance no loss of life", but should these tactics fail, MK would resort to "guerilla warfare and terrorism".[110

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_...1.E2.80.931962


I found this description of Mandela to be as close as possible to the man that South Africans have known over these years:


"....Mandela is a diverse, multi-faceted and very complex individual. He was — and will continue to be — all things to all men, depending on what you want him to be at a particular point of your individual development.

Much as those who worship the first commander in chief of Umkhonto weSizwe (MK) wish to limit our understanding and interpretation of the Mandela we know to the violent revolutionary freedom fighter, Mandela was, above all, a man who was non-violently fighting for peace among all the people of the earth.


Perhaps what has, largely, been overlooked or deliberately underplayed by the media and commentators is the evidence of his life and history as a violent revolutionary freedom fighter. The focus and thrust has been to capture the essence of a meditative, non-violent forgiver, a reconciler, nation builder and, above all, peacemaker.


Given an option, we have every reason and right to highlight and celebrate Mandela the forgiver, reconciler and nation builder above the revolutionary fighter. In essence, as he grew older Mandela developed a character that would promote justice, equality, brotherhood and peace among men. If he was a revolutionary fighter who picked up arms, the purpose was to bring about love, peace and justice in the world.


The whole emphasis on his role in MK as a violent revolutionary freedom fighter is a bit blown out of proportion, methinks. In fact, liberation wars and their heroes have not delivered much for the African people they rule except for power, position, status and control of state resources for themselves.


The liberation war-hero approach has, largely, only resulted in substituting former colonialists with revolutionary fighters who have repeated the mistakes of their colonial masters by not improving the material conditions of the majority or sharing the wealth of the country. There is no point in the hero war image because in war, especially liberation wars, there are no winners.


The benefits or adventures of Mandela the liberation war hero are so few that they can be counted in one hand. He may have defied Nobel Peace Prize winner Chief Albert Luthuli to found and lead MK. He went through various countries in Africa in pursuit of military training and networks. When arrested he was in possession of a gun. There are very few other things that can be cited to concretise the image and profile of Mandela the violent revolutionary freedom fighter.


The essence of Mandela comes from the young man who was a smooth and suave lawyer. It rests most securely on leading the Defiance Campaign in a non-violent manner. He was a man with a very clear conscience, articulate and intelligent yet willing to be killed for his convictions.


Killing other people was not essential in many of the strategies he adopted.

Even if war was essential it is now an open secret that he pursued it to create love and peace in South Africa and the world.

The end justified the means but war was not an end in itself.


As a people we would not have gotten to where we are now — a peaceful nation in harmonious co-existence — without his intellectual and persuasive skills that espoused negotiation and non-violence. The image of Mandela the revolutionary fighter who stood for war may be part of his history but it does not explain the man in his totality. To make him a war hero of the stature of Che Guevara or Robert Mugabe is a distortion of his essence. In fact, it seems a myth.


It will serve some interests for Mandela to be a violent revolutionary hero who was willing to kill and shed the innocent blood of women and children in pursuit of the return of the land to its indigenous owners and the redistribution of wealth of the country among all the people who live and work in it. But this would not be the real Mandela who was glorified and celebrated by the world...."

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sandi...tion-war-hero/



:wa:
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~Zaria~
01-09-2014, 08:48 PM
:salam:

Rare Video: Mandela Speaking on Palestine [Extracts]









What a man he was....Truly, what a man!
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