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andywelik
12-15-2013, 05:03 PM
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true. If people make claims that a certain book is Holy then that book should not contain any errors or mistakes. If there is even one error or mistake, then, that book gets disqualified as a Holy book. Is my thinking here right? If not right please tell me why.
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Hulk
12-15-2013, 05:24 PM
Some criteria for a Holy Book

(1) Claims to be from God;
(2) Cannot be produced by any others;
(3) Contains absolute principles;
(4) Does not contain discrepancies;
(5) Has contributed to the well-being of mankind at all levels;
(6) Can show that its prophecies are true;
(7) Data compatible with scientific research which indicate the author could not possibly have known them then, without the current finding;
(8) Still remains in its original text;
(9) Speaks of God and His plan;
(10) Has universal appeal.
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sister herb
12-15-2013, 05:34 PM
By that logic the only holy book is then the Quran by Arabic.

;D
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YusufNoor
12-15-2013, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by andywelik
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true. If people make claims that a certain book is Holy then that book should not contain any errors or mistakes. If there is even one error or mistake, then, that book gets disqualified as a Holy book. Is my thinking here right? If not right please tell me why.
if you are asking if that criteria means that there is no way that the New Testament can be considered as a Holy Book, then you are right. it can't be!
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Ahmad H
12-16-2013, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by andywelik
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true. If people make claims that a certain book is Holy then that book should not contain any errors or mistakes. If there is even one error or mistake, then, that book gets disqualified as a Holy book. Is my thinking here right? If not right please tell me why.
You are correct. If a book is Holy, then it would have come from God. God is Perfect, therefore the book He sends must be perfect as well. This means no errors.

If a religion is false, naturally the god they believe in will be deficient in some qualities. You will notice that from their beliefs about their deity and their book containing errors. There are many false religions out there, and it is easy enough to tell that from the deficiency in the deities they believe in, who are imperfect.
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Muslim Woman
12-16-2013, 04:21 AM
:sl:



holy books originally came from God Almighty . Later except Quran , others were altered by human being . Thus today's Torah , Bible are not the 'same ' holy books but we Muslims believe that those came from Allah.

And Allah Knows Best.
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Abz2000
12-16-2013, 07:13 AM
The prophet pbuh advised us to be careful not to disbelieve something which is true, and believe something which is false in the previous scriptures. Therefore a Muslim needs to tread lightly and think critically when studying those books to understand them.

However it doesn't mean that it's all false and doesn't contain huge amounts of revelation from Allah despite the obvious modifications, we therefore must treat it with respect and not do a terry jones.
Peace
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greenhill
12-16-2013, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
and not do a terry jones.
Salaam,

I guess it does not have good connotation to it, but I don't know the correct interpretation of doing a terry jones. What did he do?

:hiding:
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sister herb
12-16-2013, 02:22 PM
^^ He is an American guy who likes to burn the Qurans. For example.
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greenhill
12-16-2013, 02:32 PM
To add, I read in a publication published by my Government's arm on islamic affairs on the mathematical wonders littered throughout the Qur'an. Things that only with modern technology could be done. Impossible to do otherwise.

I mean 'Holy' because of the message it contains and its source for the other scriptures. But the Holy in the Qur'an is entirely different.

What I can remember from that publication (20 plus years ago) was the sentence, . . . the same as . . . , . . . not the same as . . . , and . . . is (different?) from . . . (the last one I cannot remember exactly what it was) then, if the word was night is the same as day, if they counted the occurrence of those words in the Qur'an, it would equal each other. If not the same, then, the occurrence of the words would differ by one. If different, then it would differ by 3.

The publication cited several other examples but I can't remember them all, and it stated that if any of the words were tampered with, these formulas would break down. It is a way for us to remain assured that it is preserved, as Allah has promised. And Allah never breaks His promise.

I was stunned when I learnt of this. This Book is truly a miracle. It is the word of Allah, for us, if we pay heed.


Peace :shade:
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muslimah bird
12-20-2013, 02:20 PM
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true. If people make claims that a certain book is Holy then that book should not contain any errors or mistakes. If there is even one error or mistake, then, that book gets disqualified as a Holy book. Is my thinking here right? If not right please tell me why.
acid test for book claiming to be from god is that it should be free from contradictions.

4:82 "Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions."

The bible doesnt seem to pass the test as it has several of them.
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greenhill
12-20-2013, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
He is an American guy who likes to burn the Qurans. For example.
Thank you sister herb
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greenhill
12-20-2013, 02:38 PM
Now I am just curious, I grew up with the information that if you wanted to dispose of certain sacred stuff like Quranic text, it is best to burn it. That way it could never be accidentally be treated with disrespect.

As a result, I'd rather see people burning the Qur'an than to stomp on it.

Just my thoughts.

Peace :shade:
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Scimitar
12-20-2013, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah bird
acid test for book claiming to be from god is that it should be free from contradictions.4:82 Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.The bible doesnt seem to pass the test as it has several of them.
please reconcile the quote from Quran with quote marks - else your next sentence may be misconstrued to also be a part of the Quran. In a thread like this, it is imperative that you understand this.

Scimi
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muslimah bird
12-20-2013, 05:33 PM
^^^thanks ,will keep that in mind
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Muhaba
12-20-2013, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by andywelik
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true. If people make claims that a certain book is Holy then that book should not contain any errors or mistakes. If there is even one error or mistake, then, that book gets disqualified as a Holy book. Is my thinking here right? If not right please tell me why.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! God the All-Knowing can NOT make an error. If a book ascribed to Him has errors it means one of several things: 1. that the book isn't from God at all. 2. That the book originally was from God but was later tampered with. In either case, it can not be trusted.

The Bible is proven to have many errors and contradictions not to mention ungodly material (like accusations on Prophets). As such it is proven that the bible has been tampered with and is not the exact Word of God anymore. Thus, we can not know what information in it is from God and what is from humans. Therefore, we cannot trust any of the information in the bible. A faith based on the bible cannot be trusted.
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Logikon
01-31-2014, 06:44 AM
Originally Posted by Dreamin

If a book ascribed to Him has errors it means one of several things.....
"A" book? ??

The bible is not "a" book.

The bible is a library.

It is made up of many books brought together at the Council of Nicea to produce the library, that is the Bible.

Christians claim that some of the word are God's words.

Muslims claim all of the words are god's words and then afterward were corrupted.

Example: The letters of Paul to the Corinthians are a collection of letters from Paul to the Corinthians. They are not God's words. Nobody said they are. How do Muslims explain these letters?
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greenhill
01-31-2014, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Logikon
Muslims claim all of the words are god's words and then afterward were corrupted.
Not sure you could say that carte-blanche. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's words, the Bible, not sure we made that claim. But what we definitely say is that the message in the Bible has been corrupted, not about the words, as the original words were in Aramaic and it does not exist anymore so no words are original. They are all translated versions of the words.

The example you cite is as a result of your misunderstanding.

:peace:
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fschmidt
03-09-2015, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by andywelik
Scriptures can be considered Holy only if they are 100% true.

It seems everyone here agrees with this, but I don't. Suppose I printed a book which was a copy of the Quran with the statement "1+1=3" appended. Clearly this book contains a false statement. Does that mean that the whole book is worthless? Anyone with a discerning mind can ignore the error and be uplifted by the rest. In my mind, holiness is just being at a high spiritual level. It does not require perfection. If a holy book contains a few errors, it can still have strong spiritual value overall and intelligent people can benefit from what they learn from the book while still having enough skepticism to question what they find doubtful.
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Beyondalina
03-09-2015, 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by muslimah bird
acid test for book claiming to be from god is that it should be free from contradictions.

4:82 "Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions."

The bible doesnt seem to pass the test as it has several of them.
The Bible may not seem to pass the test but does that mean that you would completely disregard everything it says? For you to do so would be a contradiction of core principles taught in the Koran. Are not Muslims commanded to believe in Jesus, Abraham, Moses and other prophets mentioned in the Bible?

That leads me to wonder how many Muslims give the Bible the respect that it deserves.
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Johnathan
03-09-2015, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah bird
acid test for book claiming to be from god is that it should be free from contradictions.

4:82 "Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions."

The bible doesnt seem to pass the test as it has several of them.
Google something like - bible contradictions answered

An admission by the Quran's own author regarding how to resolve the Quran's contradictions:

Surah 2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?
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greenhill
03-09-2015, 02:04 PM
Hi Beyondalina,

No, the Muslims do not have any need to refer to the Bible or the Torah. It is not required. The teachings in the Quran and sunnah is enough to do Allah's bidding.

:peace:
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