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Kayser
01-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Assalam alaikum,

We know in the Quran Allah SW tells us that the Jews said Uzair is the Son of Allah,
Is there any historical evidence of that?

Thank you
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Scimitar
01-03-2014, 06:09 PM
wiki has a good article on ths in case you are interested - you can follow up the links from there also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzair#Jewish_tradition_and_literature

Scimi
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Kayser
01-03-2014, 06:27 PM
T
his again has no Historical evidence, the article simply Is saying the Quran said this about Uzair
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Muslim Woman
01-04-2014, 07:48 AM
:sl:


for believers , it should be enough that - holy Quran says so .
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Kayser
01-04-2014, 07:57 AM
Alhadu lillah, Quran is enough for me. However, that's not my question
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Muslim Woman
01-04-2014, 04:05 PM
:sl:


did not read the whole article . U may have a look



http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/qb005.htm
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Kayser
01-04-2014, 08:15 PM
there is no actual link to Encyclopaedia Judaica, Ibid page 1108 as it is shown in the article
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Muslim Woman
01-05-2014, 12:00 PM
:sl:


u may let Admin know about it .
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Darth Ultor
01-05-2014, 01:00 PM
But it's not true at all. Ask any Jew and they will give you a "What is wrong with you" look. I grew up learning that god is one, indivisible, and has no biological sons. We call God "Father" in a figurative term but I never learned that Ezra/Uzair was the son of God even when I brought Christian beliefs up. The only prophets we hold in very high regard are Moses and Abraham. We hold Davis in high regard too but we don't see him as a prophet.
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Muslim Woman
01-05-2014, 04:41 PM
:sl:





.....The Jews of Medina were avowed critics of Muhammad(peace be upon him), and would drilled him with questions about his prophethood whenever they had the chance, "The Jews used to annoy the Apostle with all kinds of questions" (Ibn Ishaq, Sirah)


eg. "While the Prophet(peace be upon him) was reclining on a palm tree, some Jews passed by. They talked among themselves: Let's ask him about the spirit" (Sahih Bukhari)


The Jews even asked him about the story of the Seven Sleepers, and ALLAH answered with one whole chapter -"The cave".


Yet there's not a single report of the contemporary Jews rebuking prophet Muhammad( peace be upon him) for the notion that Jews call ezra son of god.





But we do have a hadith quoting the prominent Jews of Medina as saying "How could we follow you when you have forsaken our qiblah and does not consider Ezra as a son of God?" (Tabari, Tarikh)


it should be noted that the verse says "these are the words of their mouths" so it's not written in their scriptures they must have said that but it wasn't written down in their holy books.the verse doesn't explicitly imply that Jews worship Ezra, but actually translates as "The Jews SAY Ezra is a son of God".




let's see who is Ezra and how he was elevated to a status where he was considered by some Jews as "son of god "


Also interesting is Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali's comments on this issue:





Of course there is no evidence in the extant Old Testament about it; but the Qur'an was not referring to what is written in the Old Testament about 'Uzayr but to the belief and assertion of some of the Jews of the time who regarded 'Uzayr as the son of God.

In fact the 'ayah in question, 9:30, starts with the expression: "And the Jews say". The commentator Al-Baydawi, to whome Watt refers a number of times in his book, (fn. Watt, Muhammad's Mecca, 108, note 2 to Chapter 1 and notes 2 and 10 to Chapter III) makes it clear with reference to this 'ayah that because the Old Testament was given its present form by 'Uzayr, many of the Jews of the time considered him a "son of God" and that specifically at Madina there was a group of Jews who held that belief.


Al-Baydawi futher points out that the 'ayah in question was read out and recited as usual but no Madinan Jew came forward with a contradiction (fn.Al-Baydawi, Tafsir, I, second Egyptian impression, 1968, p. 412).


It is to be noted that this 'ayah is unanimously regarded as Madinan. Hence the silence of the Jews of the place on the matter is suggestive enough, particularly as they were avowed critics of the Prophet.
Not only Al-Baydawi but also other commentators mention that the 'ayah refers to the views of a particular group of the Jews.


For instance, Al-Tabari bives a number of reports together with their chains of narrators specifically mentioning the leading Jews of Madina who considered Uzayr a son of God. The most prominent of those Jews were Finhas, Sullam ibn Mishkam, Nu'man ibn Awfa, Sha's ibn Qays and Malik ibn al-Sayf (fn. Al-Tabari, Tafsir, XIV, 201-204). Similarly, Al-Qurtubi mentions the same fact and the same names adding that the expression "the Jews" occuring at the beginning of the 'ayah means "some particular Jews", just as the expression "people told them" (qala lahum al-nas) means not all the people of the world but some particular people. He further says that the Jewish sect who held that 'Uzayr was God's son had become extinct by his (Al-Qurtubi's) time


(fn. Al-Qurtubi, Tafsir, Pt. VIII, 116-117). (Muhammad Mohar Ali, The Qur'an and the Orientalists, Jam'iyat 'Ihyaa' Minhaaj Al-Sunnah 2004, p. 66)


In his response to Ezra divine sonship, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

“Ever since then, Ezra has been venerated to such a degree that his verdicts on the Law of Moses have come to be regarded by the Talmudists as being practically equivalent to the Law itself, which, in Qur’anic ideology, amounts to the unforgivable sin of shirk inasmuch as it implies the elevation of a human being to the status of a quasi-divine law-giver and the blasphemous attribution to him—albeit metaphorically—of the quality of “sonship” in relation to God.


Compare in this connection Exodus 4:22-23 (“Israel is My son”) or Jeremiah 31:9 (“I am a father to Israel”): expressions to which, because of their idolatrous implications, the Qur’an takes strong exception.”


(Muhammad Asad, The Message of the Qur’an. Gibraltar: Dar al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 262-263).



http://yoursincerefriend.blogspot.com/2010/08/kuki.html
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Darth Ultor
01-14-2014, 05:20 PM
Do you know any Jews? Ask them, or better yet, go to chabad.org and email a Rabbi asking him if Jews belie Uzair to be the son of God. Perhaps that was a Medinan thing.
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Muhaba
01-14-2014, 08:42 PM
I found this in Wikipedia about Ezra - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra. It says: In the Syrian village of Tedef, a shrine said to be the burial place of Ezra has been venerated by Jews for centuries. Another tradition locates his tomb near Basra, Iraq.

The Jews regarded him very highly and considered him a second Moses.

More about Ezra fro various nonmuslim sources (I haven't read them). http://global.britannica.com/EBcheck...ic/199520/Ezra

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/hist...miah.shtml?p=1
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Kayser
01-14-2014, 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by Darth Ultor
Do you know any Jews? Ask them, or better yet, go to chabad.org and email a Rabbi asking him if Jews belie Uzair to be the son of God. Perhaps that was a Medinan thing.
I asked, and they replied by saying this idea never existed in Judiasm. But the Quran tells us that
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Darth Ultor
01-14-2014, 08:55 PM
None of these say that the Jews believe him to be the son of God. I mean, you venerate the prophets but acknowledge that they were mortal men conceived naturally.
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Muhaba
01-14-2014, 08:58 PM
Another about Ezra's tomb. Seems Jews went there for pilgrimage and worship. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13056-samara
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Darth Ultor
01-14-2014, 09:05 PM
Not to worship him but God. I mean, Muslims don't go to Medina to pray to Muhammad.
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Zafran
01-14-2014, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by Darth Ultor
Do you know any Jews? Ask them, or better yet, go to chabad.org and email a Rabbi asking him if Jews belie Uzair to be the son of God. Perhaps that was a Medinan thing.
I think that it talks about the Jews in Arabia and how they viewed Uzair at the time. Not The Jews all over the world.
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Muhaba
01-15-2014, 06:52 AM
Muslims go to the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, not to pray in some shrines. In fact, praying in shrines is not allowed where there are graves because that can easily be changed to an act of polytheism. It is also not allowed to build mosques on graves although they have been done wrongly. Yet none of those pious individuals are held in such high esteem as equating the person with God or an intecessor to God, etc. (Some heretic sects have done it but not the mainstream Muslims.)

As for Uzair / Ezra, he was held in such high esteem and Jews visited his shrine for pilgrimage. No Muslim goes to do pilgrimage to any place except the Holy Ka'aba in Mecca. That is the only place where we go for pilgrimage. The Mosque of the Prophet (PBUH) in Madina is not part of the pilgrimage. So, the fact that Jews went to Ezra's shrine for pilgrimage shows that they held some supernatural view of him. I'm sure information about it exists since no Jew since the time of the Prophet ever complained that the verse about Ezra was not according to Jewish beliefs. Muslims came across many Jews and many many Jews (including scholars) converted to Islam. But not one of the Jews ever brought this up. Of course, now our "internet scholars" with "Google PHDs" and "Wiki-degrees" have all the information and are coming up with such criticism. But if you're not a Jewish scholar, then please don't come here with such questions to put doubt in Muslim minds about our Holy Book. If you want to get information, go to Jewish sites and sit with Jewish scholars. But don't come here with the answers because objections that weren't raised in over 1400 years cannot be looked into now, here on the internet.
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Kayser
01-15-2014, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
Muslims go to the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, not to pray in some shrines. In fact, praying in shrines is not allowed where there are graves because that can easily be changed to an act of polytheism. It is also not allowed to build mosques on graves although they have been done wrongly. Yet none of those pious individuals are held in such high esteem as equating the person with God or an intecessor to God, etc. (Some heretic sects have done it but not the mainstream Muslims.)

As for Uzair / Ezra, he was held in such high esteem and Jews visited his shrine for pilgrimage. No Muslim goes to do pilgrimage to any place except the Holy Ka'aba in Mecca. That is the only place where we go for pilgrimage. The Mosque of the Prophet (PBUH) in Madina is not part of the pilgrimage. So, the fact that Jews went to Ezra's shrine for pilgrimage shows that they held some supernatural view of him. I'm sure information about it exists since no Jew since the time of the Prophet ever complained that the verse about Ezra was not according to Jewish beliefs. Muslims came across many Jews and many many Jews (including scholars) converted to Islam. But not one of the Jews ever brought this up. Of course, now our "internet scholars" with "Google PHDs" and "Wiki-degrees" have all the information and are coming up with such criticism. But if you're not a Jewish scholar, then please don't come here with such questions to put doubt in Muslim minds about our Holy Book. If you want to get information, go to Jewish sites and sit with Jewish scholars. But don't come here with the answers because objections that weren't raised in over 1400 years cannot be looked into now, here on the internet.
I am sorry, but you should be ashamed of accusing me I came here to create fitnah, For me, the book of Allah is enough in order for me to believe something, if Allah said it happened, that means it happened. I don't care about non Islamic references about it. However, there is nothing wrong in understanding, and looking for other sources about the story, in case if you didn't notice, not everyone is a Muslim in the world, while debating with others, it would be helpful to have a non Islamic references. in short please stop accusing people of creating fitnah
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Muhaba
01-15-2014, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Kayser
I am sorry, but you should be ashamed of accusing me I came here to create fitnah
If you had read the first sentence I wrote, you'd have realized that my reply was to Darth Ultor.

Originally Posted by Darth Ultor
Not to worship him but God. I mean, Muslims don't go to Medina to pray to Muhammad.
Originally Posted by Dreamin
Muslims go to the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, not to pray in some shrines
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Kayser
01-15-2014, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Dreamin
If you had read the first sentence I wrote, you'd have realized that my reply was to Darth Ultor.
please accept my apologies
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