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Wynter
01-25-2014, 02:01 PM
Speaking as someone who just finished his twelve years at school, I felt a pronounced, lack of interest in what we were studying. A lack of subjects, of course stemmed from lack of private school funding so we essentially had to do the best with what we could, numerous options being cut.

However, even if we had the additional options, core subjects such as English just aren't interesting enough to engage a student. At least from the experience of me and several of my friends this year, in many states and countries.

I think the current education system needs reform, because without interest, how can someone do their best? Passion is needed more than a determination, with passion determination grows, without it, sometimes determination isn't enough. What are your thoughts on the current education system?
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Iceee
01-25-2014, 05:19 PM
Salaam / Peace Be Upon You.

This kind of question depends on where you are living. If you live in a poor country or a country that doesn't value education as much, then you won't be getting the best classes, best teachers, and/or warm and well designed classrooms.

I agree that Education is very important, especially if you are living in first world countries like the U.S and Canada. That's why a lot of Muslims where I live vote for the Prime Minister that values Education (Usually Liberal Party). This because they want their child to receive better education for lower cost. This in-turn will allow Tax money to be spend more on education, helping parents with cost for their child.

Does the education system need change? No. I think we need change.

Students go to high-school, get bored of the courses, then drop out (at least that is what is happening here). Most won't get a full time job, or get married. A lot of them will try to raise a child on minimum wage, which seems like an impossible task today. Money will be wasted spending it on alcohol, cigarettes, and sex. Then we complain that we need more money but sadly, that requires a better job which requires more schooling.

To conclude, yes we need better courses, teachers, and better school environment. But we need to be willing to work hard in school rather than giving up.
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ardianto
01-26-2014, 04:35 AM
Basically education system in anywhere is same. Teachers teach, students learn. But under the same system, teachers still teach in various way, depend on person, There are teachers who command the students to memorize and memorize, there are teachers who invite the students to ask and discuss. The result will be different. So, the most important is not the system itself, but implementation of the system.

But actually the result of education is determined by the students themselves. If the students are serious in study, they will get good result. But if the students are lazy?.

In the real world I've ever told some youth, there are two things that cannot be bought by money, but there's always people who try to buy them. Love and Knowledge.

There are parents who think, if their children study in expensive school, their children will get good knowledge. But actually money they spend is just to pay teaching and facility costs. The knowledge itself cannot be bought by money, but 'bought' by motivation and seriousness in learn. It's depend on the students themselves.

Not all of rich students who study in expensive school are good in knowledge, and not all of poor students who study in 'cheap' school are bad in knowledge.
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Muhaba
01-26-2014, 03:11 PM
A lot of things that we study are useless and never used out of the school. English literature is hated by almost everyone. Classical stories are boring. Too many subjects and not focusing on one topic hinder people's knowledge; one never masters a particular subject.

in the old days during the Abassids times pupils mastered so many subjects and became scholars in science, medicine, mathematics, etc. but now we only study a subject a bit and then forget it. it's just a huge waste of time.
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Karl
01-26-2014, 10:12 PM
State schools are designed to turn out zombie wage slaves loyal to the State and the plutocrat elite. I was listening to an American who lectured in philosophy who said that schools just teach facts and unproven facts and outright lies and propaganda etc. But they don't teach the students to think for themselves. Which is dead right. State schools are essentially designed to brainwash the students into being model citizens of the System. Privatization of schools would fix this, but it will never happen as it is a threat to the State. I am talking about very left wing countries like democratic ones and Marxist countries. State worshipping is very powerful now and people rely on the government for everything. They need the government to control every aspect of their lives, as they have become collectivist and lost all individuality. They always say "we" instead of "I" and "our" instead of "my".
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crimsontide06
01-27-2014, 12:10 AM
I think schools need to teach about taxes,money/banking skills, how to pay your bills,...LIFE SKILLS....I have not once had to use Algebra since college. If I were going to be a doctor, chemist, teacher..etc then 100% I would need Algebra but until then if needed I have a calculator.
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ardianto
01-27-2014, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
State schools are designed to turn out zombie wage slaves loyal to the State and the plutocrat elite. I was listening to an American who lectured in philosophy who said that schools just teach facts and unproven facts and outright lies and propaganda etc. But they don't teach the students to think for themselves. Which is dead right. State schools are essentially designed to brainwash the students into being model citizens of the System. Privatization of schools would fix this, but it will never happen as it is a threat to the State. I am talking about very left wing countries like democratic ones and Marxist countries. State worshipping is very powerful now and people rely on the government for everything. They need the government to control every aspect of their lives, as they have become collectivist and lost all individuality. They always say "we" instead of "I" and "our" instead of "my".
You have read some of my posts and you could see my way of thingking. And, do I think like zombie?.

I studied in state highschool. My first secondary school (before I expeled because too naughty) is state school too, even this is elite school with very high standard and only smart students who can study there.

My son study in state school since elementary school until highschool now. State school is my choice, and my son choice for study because its high standard in teaching. In my place not all students can pass the entrance test to study in state secondary school and high school.

Like I've said, teachers teach in various way. But in state school (in my place), teachers usually teach in method which motivate students to think, not only memorize.
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M.I.A.
01-27-2014, 01:23 AM
i dont think the education system needs changing.

its not meant to be fun or interesting..... if it is then thank your teachers.


the education system is a means for sorting us into neat little groups, while we dont even know who we are..

its probably the biggest personality test, before personality tests even existed.



....i dont know, ask yourself the same question again in about ten years.



as for personal aptitude, determination is key...

even if your not great at being educated.


i always look to my dad as an example, he came from the bottom and he made it.

i started at the top... lol

iv seen kids make it from public schools, became real professionals.

so a class divide is no excuse....hardly ever.

knowledge is not everything, its application is everything... its probably been better said.
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Karl
01-27-2014, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
You have read some of my posts and you could see my way of thingking. And, do I think like zombie?.

I studied in state highschool. My first secondary school (before I expeled because too naughty) is state school too, even this is elite school with very high standard and only smart students who can study there.

My son study in state school since elementary school until highschool now. State school is my choice, and my son choice for study because its high standard in teaching. In my place not all students can pass the entrance test to study in state secondary school and high school.

Like I've said, teachers teach in various way. But in state school (in my place), teachers usually teach in method which motivate students to think, not only memorize.
Your schools are probably ok if you live in a Muslim non Westernized country. I am stuck in an anti Islamic country and can't afford to leave. So I home school my offspring because I don't want them being subjected to anti Islamic propaganda, or associate in any way with my enemies.
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M.I.A.
01-27-2014, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Your schools are probably ok if you live in a Muslim non Westernized country. I am stuck in an anti Islamic country and can't afford to leave. So I home school my offspring because I don't want them being subjected to anti Islamic propaganda, or associate in any way with my enemies.
how can it be anti-islamic if they allow your children to attend school?


its like spending your entire life in a mosque.

to be fair i finished my first reading of the quran at the age of 5 and a half.. im not bragging because the next time i really read it was at the age of 26.

i hope you understand.

children are free of propaganda and indoctrination, most would not understand it even if it were taught.

some might say the children of your enemies are your enemies..

but its a truly lost world if they ever do.


you should send your children to public school and teach them at home after they come back from it.

so when they grow up, they know the difference between someone who looks like an enemy and somebody that actually is.

but each to his own really.

you can say that the world does not work on ideals and dreams of real peace.



...one last thing,

in regards to the opening post,

the western system of education and democracy and economy are almost perfect.

its in the application of the systems that they differ from islamic ideologies.

so dont aim to break it to the very foundations.

aim to reform it with moral intent.



...which is probably much easier from the inside rather than the outside. (the irony of the struggle does not escape me)
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ardianto
01-27-2014, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Your schools are probably ok if you live in a Muslim non Westernized country. I am stuck in an anti Islamic country and can't afford to leave. So I home school my offspring because I don't want them being subjected to anti Islamic propaganda, or associate in any way with my enemies.
I enjoyed my times in school. I cannot imagine if I was home schooling. Maybe I would become a boy who was not easy to build good relationship with other people.

I've ever studied in Catholic private elementary school from grade 1 until 4. All of my teachers were nuns!. They did not teach me Islam, of course, and also did not teach me their religion. But I learned Qur'an at home with an Islamic teacher.
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Karl
01-27-2014, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
how can it be anti-islamic if they allow your children to attend school?


its like spending your entire life in a mosque.

to be fair i finished my first reading of the quran at the age of 5 and a half.. im not bragging because the next time i really read it was at the age of 26.

i hope you understand.

children are free of propaganda and indoctrination, most would not understand it even if it were taught.

some might say the children of your enemies are your enemies..

but its a truly lost world if they ever do.


you should send your children to public school and teach them at home after they come back from it.

so when they grow up, they know the difference between someone who looks like an enemy and somebody that actually is.

but each to his own really.

you can say that the world does not work on ideals and dreams of real peace.



...one last thing,

in regards to the opening post,

the western system of education and democracy and economy are almost perfect.

its in the application of the systems that they differ from islamic ideologies.

so dont aim to break it to the very foundations.

aim to reform it with moral intent.



...which is probably much easier from the inside rather than the outside. (the irony of the struggle does not escape me)
My country is Zionist and has troops in Afghanistan killing Muslims and trying to Westernize it. Oh yes the West and it's democracy is so perfect that they are always in a war for profit and conquest for Israel.

You must be intelligent to be able to read by 5 or so. When I was a child and learnt to read I absorbed sciences, mathematics, politics, history, arts, geography and everything and still am. Books are the minds of people. It would be great if one could rise a little higher and get knowledge directly from God. Then one would not have to sort the wheat from the chaff.
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Karl
01-27-2014, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I enjoyed my times in school. I cannot imagine if I was home schooling. Maybe I would become a boy who was not easy to build good relationship with other people.

I've ever studied in Catholic private elementary school from grade 1 until 4. All of my teachers were nuns!. They did not teach me Islam, of course, and also did not teach me their religion. But I learned Qur'an at home with an Islamic teacher.
Did they whack you on the knuckles with a ruler when you didn't do your work?
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ardianto
01-28-2014, 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by Karl
Did they whack you on the knuckles with a ruler when you didn't do your work?
That was punishment for students who let their nails long. Yes, my teacher whacked me on the knuckles with wooden ruler once because this.

But the common punishment was standing in front of class. I was often punished like this, always because same behavior, fighting!.

When I was in grade 2 I was a temperamental boy who easy to beat someone. Of course my teachers punished me because I beat other students. However, they did not only punish me, but they also advised me to be a better boy. Then I turned into a better boy and started learn to build good relationship with the others.

I know many people see the nuns as strict and fierce people. My teacher could be like this too sometime, but actually they had great sense of motherly. They always care on me, regularly visited my home at night, talked with my parents and with me, always helped me when I had a problem in learn.

They always walked when they visited my home because they didn't have vehicle, lived in simplicity in a dorm.

To be honest, I could feel a love from them. That's why I always have big respect to the nuns, although I am a Muslim.
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