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ardianto
08-24-2014, 05:56 PM
:sl:

Few days ago I went to a place where coincidentally I met an old woman. She talked to me, and immediately I realize that she was in trouble although she didn't tell it. So I gave her little help that made her surprised. Frankly, I was very happy when I saw her smile.

But there was something in my mind when I left that place. "Did I do something wrong in giving her a little help?". I remember the Islamic article in internet which I read in the night before.

The article started with explanation that it's not true if Muslims are focus only to human and God relationship (Habluminallah), but also care on human to human relationship (Habluminannas). The first part of article seem good. But the next parts started to confusing me. And the last part was really confusing me because the point was, Muslims should not do good deed if based only on humanity.

I didn't think about reward when I gave that little help. What's in my mind just, as human I must help other human. But help the other without expect reward make the help useless like described in that article?.

I was born in Muslim family, and I learned Islam since I was kid which my teachers taught me not only about salah and fasting, but also about how to be a good Muslim in society. They taught me about love, care, compassion. They told me that a good Muslim is a Muslim who give benefit for other human. It motivates me to have social care.

But later after I use internet I started to find another view. There are Muslims who think that serving humanity can make Muslims forget to serve Allah. This is what I found. They also criticize other people who serve humanity without serve Allah as doing the useless thing. Okay, I understand if those Muslims criticize them because they don't serve Allah. But why must they criticize those other people good deeds to other human?. Why don't they criticize the Muslims who spend huge amount of money only to bring their sport cars from Arabia to London and show off there without care on other people who die from starvation?.

So, is it wrong if other people think that Muslims have lack of social care?.

And does serve humanity makes Muslims forget Allah?. I can't answer this question. But there is one thing which I always felt after I helped the other, when they smile at me and said "May Allah reward you". Those were the times when I felt, I must bring myself closer to Allah.
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syed_z
08-24-2014, 08:41 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum....

The people that you are referring to might be those who disbelieve in Allah (swt) and serve humanity, it is their works that will be of no avail on Judgment Day as said in the Quran.

This Hadith Qudsi (Words of Allah narrated from the Blessed mouth of the Prophet) sums up clearly the importance and obligation on the part of a Believer to Serve Humanity which pleases Allah (swt) very much:

Hadith Qudsi 18:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the
Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) will say on the Day of
Resurrection:

O son of Adam, I fell ill and you visited Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I visit You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so had fallen ill and you visited him not? Did you not know that had you visited him you would have found Me with him? O son of Adam, I asked you for food and you fed Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I feed You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so asked you for food and you fed him not? Did you not know that had you fed him you would surely have found that (the reward for doing so) with Me? O son of Adam, I asked you to give Me to drink and you gave Me not to drink. He will say: O Lord, how should I give You to drink whin You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: My servant So-and-so asked you to give him to drink and you gave him not to drink. Had you given him to drink you would have surely found that with Me.

It was related by Muslim.
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MuslimInshallah
08-25-2014, 11:06 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,


The article you raised seems puzzling to me, too. Perhaps you could post the link, so that others couldread it, too. Perhaps something was misunderstood?


Because it makes no sense to say that doing good for others takes you away from Allah. Because He Tells us repeatedly in the Qur'an to do good. And compassion/mercy/love issuch an important quality, that the Names conveying these qualities are the most used of all of His Names. The Prophet (PBUH) taught us that we needed compassion/mercy/love in order to enter Paradise. But how can we develop these qualities if we do not interact with the world around us?


It is true that if we do some good solely for the sake of this world, that we will not have a Reward inthe Next. Perhaps this is what was meant? It is all too possible to get caught up in doing good for others so that they might respect us,or admire us, or do good things for us... in this case, we are not focusing on Allah, but actually on ourselves.


But if we smile to our neighbours, huga person in pain, pack a lunch for a hungry person... because we know this is what Pleases our Lord, then surely this brings us closer to Him?


I cannot say that I always think: I'll do this because it Pleases Allah, before doing something for another.Quite often, it's what feels right and natural to my Heart. But is not the Heart that which links us to Him? Is it not where we find our fitrah? I have held an infant on my shoulder while dealing with something difficult, only to feel a little hand patting my back reassuringly, trying to comfort me. We are all born is a state of Islam. It seems to me that when that little hand patted me, it was bythe Grace of Allah that my child knew what to do. She was moved,through her Heart, to do this kind act.


It seems to me that as adults, too, we may feel these impulses. That while sometimes the mind needs to consciously remember Allah before we do things Pleasing to Him, other times we spontaneously express from our Hearts things that are Pleasing to Him... and then our minds catch up and remember Him.


But both ways, it seems to me, would be good in His Eyes.


Or perhaps, the article was trying tosay that helping others while forgetting some basics like prayer is not good? In that case, I could agree that it is a sin to forget your prayers. But still, it seems to me that if you do a good deed remembering Him, that this is still a good thing, in spite of the sinfulness of your neglect of prayer, and that He will Take this into account.


But only He truly Knows.
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greenhill
08-25-2014, 11:42 AM
Salaam Br. Ardianto.

Yes it can be confusing at times reading ... or trying to understand the 'finer' points (or details) on simple everyday habits that a person is trying to say..

I guess what he is trying to put across that that everything you do that is not because of Allah s.w.t. will be in vain on the Day. Everyday I go out to work and I say 'Bismillahi tawakaltu Alallahi laa hawlawaquwwata ilabillaah.. so as to remind myself that it is God's commandment that I go seek rezeki for my family everyday. In the end I do it because my need for money and the extra mile I would go to earn a bit more than what I truly need because of the 'perks' I can get if I had a little bit more then suddenly I have forgotten the objective of why I left the house in the morning. Only late at night when I reflect back that I realise...

This would be a scenario that is similar in everything I do that it has become part and parcel of life that I don't know how to realign myself to serve Allah as I go about doing my normal things...

So think instead of serving humanity for the sake of Allah. The 'smile' is an added bonus. If if the recipient is totally ungrateful, it would not affect you as much because you did it for Allah not for that person. He just happen to be the 'object' and you know Allah is happy with you.

Interesting point...


:peace:
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ardianto
08-25-2014, 01:57 PM
Wa'alaikumsalam

Originally Posted by syed_z
The people that you are referring to might be those who disbelieve in Allah (swt) and serve humanity, it is their works that will be of no avail on Judgment Day as said in the Quran.
Yes, those people are Atheists-Humanists.

Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
The article you raised seems puzzling to me, too. Perhaps you could post the link, so that others couldread it, too. Perhaps something was misunderstood?

Because it makes no sense to say that doing good for others takes you away from Allah.
Actually, the question "Does serve humanity make Muslims forget Allah" was not caused by the last article that I read in that night, but already appear in mind since I found some Muslim view toward humanity

The article is in Indonesian language. It's about the difference between Muslims and Humanist in good deeds toward the other. A good article, actually, which I agree that the good deeds from those Humanist will not make them go to heaven. Yes, it's because they are disbelivers. But I disagree with the writer stance which he criticized those humanist without notice something that the Muslims should notice.

As Muslims, we are ordered to do good toward the other, help each other in goodness. But look at the reality in Muslim world. Many of us still not care to the needy people, many of us treat the other badly without respect, there are of us who oppress the other and even use Islam as justification for this oppression.

And now look at to those Humanists. Those disbelievers do good toward the other which actually is a duty of the believers. Even those disbelievers do this better than the believers. This is what Muslims should notice and aware.

So, rather than criticize those Humanists, it's better if we, the Muslims, introspect ourselves. Have we do good toward the other as ordered in Islam. Can we do good toward the other better than those disbelievers?. This is the stance that we should take.
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ardianto
08-25-2014, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah

Or perhaps, the article was trying tosay that helping others while forgetting some basics like prayer is not good? In that case, I could agree that it is a sin to forget your prayers. But still, it seems to me that if you do a good deed remembering Him, that this is still a good thing, in spite of the sinfulness of your neglect of prayer, and that He will Take this into account.

The view that I found didn't say that too busy in help the other will make a Muslim have no time for salah. But clearly, they worry that if a Muslim serving humanity, then he will be easy to fall into humanism philosophy, and far from Islam.

Is it right?. This is what I want to discuss.
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MuslimInshallah
08-25-2014, 06:38 PM
Ok, this makes sense (about the article and what you have seen online).


I agree with you. I think we ought to look at ourselves first and ask: what can I/we improve? But it is so much easier to see what another person (or community) could improve...


Regarding humanists and Muslims. I remember attending a talk by Tariq Ramadan some years ago. His quiet (but passionate) sincerity was very moving. He made a very similar point. He personally knew some of these humanists, and he knew of the good that they did. And I have met such people myself. Just this winter and spring, we needed to protest a proposed set of laws in my home province that would have effectively barred many Muslim women from working at a wide variety of jobs (because it proposed banning headscarves). While there were some members of the Muslim community in my region who put some efforts into working against this proposed legislation (as well as some devout Christians), the real movers and shakers were a small core group of humanists who felt that this law was discriminatory. They reached out to us and set up media interviews, protest actions... they showed us how to do these things,and they were very respectful towards us.


And we won... the party in power suffered the worst electoral defeat in 40 years... and the legislation died.


I don't feel that it is appropriate to feel hostility or superiority towards people who are doing good for others, if they are not Muslims. I believe we should try to call them gently to Islam. And pray that their Hearts may open to the Compassionate. But even if they never accept Allah, I don't think it is appropriate to look down on them. I am grateful to them, and to Allah who Created them, for their help. Because of their efforts (as well as the efforts of others, of course, but we are talking of humanists), I will be able (inshallah) to get a good job when I finish my retraining, as will many other Muslim women.


You make the observation that there are Muslims who oppress or neglect others. It is, unfortunately, true. It is right that we struggle for our rights against those who do not behave properly, but this should not be limited to non-Muslims. Where we see problems in the Ummah, it seems to me that we should stand up and protest this. It reminds me of the hadith about helping the oppressed and the oppressors. How do we help the oppressors?By stopping them from oppressing. If we love our fellow Muslims, it seems to me that we should try to call them back towards the Beautiful Path.


To disagree with fellow Muslims, to (constructively) criticize what does not seem to be correct, is not a betrayal, I believe. It is a duty. And it is an act of love.
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MuslimInshallah
08-25-2014, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
The view that I found didn't say that too busy in help the other will make a Muslim have no time for salah. But clearly, they worry that if a Muslim serving humanity, then he will be easy to fall into humanism philosophy, and far from Islam.

Is it right?. This is what I want to discuss.

Oh dear! (smile). The time it took forme to answer you previous post, you have clarified a specific point you wish to discuss.


So if I understand correctly, there is a fear that if Muslims work with non-Muslims, specifically atheists with a humanistic philosophy, that the Muslims may lose their faith?


If this is so, this is a sad commentary on the vitality of the Ummah. And yet (sigh), there is some truth in it. Because while someone who is a little older, and has had the time to research the Qur'an, ahadith and various scholars and thinkers, is not at all likely to lose his/her faith while working with non-Muslims, I can see that it might be a risk for someone younger and less grounded.


I say this because I went to a very old-school Catholic-nun run boarding school as a child. And the level of hypocrisy I found really bothered me. This, combined with too many questions, combined with some difficult experiences, led me as a teenager to feel that there could not possibly be a God. How could there be a Good God if innocent children suffered and those that clothed themselves in piety behaved badly?


But, all thanks and praise be to Him Who Created me, I stumbled instead across Islam. It answered my questions. And Allah freed me from a terrible oppression. (smile) I can't say that I became a brilliant Muslim, but He had Mercy on me and Showed me this Even Path.


But I wonder: if the nuns had been better people, might I have not left Christianity?


And so may it be for young Muslims, or possibly others lacking in knowledge. Perhaps if they see Muslims behaving badly or neglectfully, while atheists behaving well, they may come to question their faith?


But is the solution to avoid decent atheists? Or would it not be more appropriate to try to look at our own selves and also approach the not-so-well-behaving Muslims? If Muslims behaved better, then the young and disenfranchised, it seems to me, would not have any cause to question the truths they have been taught about Islam bringing out the best in people. Plus, the decent atheists might feel the call to Islam...realizing that their ideals would be best brought out via a deep relationship with Allah.


Even if the not-so-well-behaved Muslims might not listen, it seems to me that just the fact that there are Muslims saying that such-and-such is not right, would be heartening to many young Muslims. I know this to be true with my own children. Just recently, I advocated for having khutbahs in English and on topics geared to Canadian-born Muslims, not just for first-generation Arabic speaking immigrants. I have advocated for these sorts of things periodically over the years, in a quiet, private sort of way.My children did not witness it. But this time, they were present, and (alhamdullilah!) it had a really good effect. They felt that at least someone was listening to their generation's concerns.


So anyway, the short answer to your question, I think, is that if we are afraid that Muslims may find atheism a more effective way to attaining social justice than Islam... we need to start by working on ourselves and our Ummah, and showing how He Inspires us in our everyday actions.
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syed_z
08-26-2014, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
But clearly, they worry that if a Muslim serving humanity, then he will be easy to fall into humanism philosophy, and far from Islam.
Salaam....

Agreeing with Sister Muslim , I believe that serving humanity along with Humanists is the best opportunity for us to actually display the best way in which our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saw) did good actions, and this can also give us an opportunity to give them dawah.... and also as sister mentioned about Fitrah on which every human is born, the good actions and struggle on the right path which humanists do, and they continue to is because the good actions are naturally inline with one's nature which Allah (swt) has made, it does give a positive vibe every time one does something good, just as how it makes one feel regret after one has committed a Sin....which reminds me for this Verse of Surah Al Rahman (Chapter 55 Verse 60)

(50:60) Is there any reward for goodness other than goodness.

I personally believe that a humanist doing good and continues to serve humanity would not do so based on his continuing to disbelieve in God, as Kufr which basically means 'one who denies and covers the truth' continues to do Kufr and do good at the same time. Yes he might not have belief in God because he never had the time or opportunity for someone to explain to him or deliver the complete message, but him doing good and denying God's existence and rejecting God's commandments which is arrogance, doing one thing which is in accordance to the Fitrah and believing at the same time in something which conflicts with the Fitrah is something I don't understand.....or maybe it would not conflict if a humanist, who does Kufr would know that they would earn more fame the more good actions they do, then obviously I can understand them doing it for the Duniya.

My thoughts.
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ardianto
08-27-2014, 06:11 PM
I am really sorry if I left this thread. But, honestly, it's because I didn't know what I must say after I felt better. Yes, I was in anger when I wrote this thread. I felt disappointed with attitude of some Muslims in internet (only in internet) which criticize Muslims who active in do good deeds for humanity.

And now I feel better and I decide to ignore them.

Jazakallahu Khayran for your response, brothers, sisters. :)
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CuriousonTruth
02-05-2019, 02:51 PM
No.

But adopting the ideology of secular humanism and believing all humans are same regardless of ideology and faith, will eventually drive you from Islam because Islamic texts do not support such beliefs.
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