Non-sectarian Islam?

[gord]

Hello all.

As a new Muslim I have explored all aspects of Islam I have been able to find. That includes both Sunni and Shia Islam. When I first became Muslim I really didn't even think about that sort of things. I have now read books from both Sunni and Shia and tried both types of prayer.

I am wondering if there is non-sectarian Islam? In a way I miss the first week of my Muslim experience when I just thought Muslims where Muslim. Now I find myself confused trying to figure out which is right. I see some people say 'just read your Qu''ran and pray'.

Any info would be appreciated!

Salaam

[Insaanah]

Assalaamu alaikum brother gord,

I am wondering if there is non-sectarian Islam? In a way I miss the first week of my Muslim experience when I just thought Muslims where Muslim.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) commanded us to stick to his way, to follow his sunnah, and not to split off into different factions, and to stick to the main body of Muslims. Unfortunately, the Shia did just that, and split themselves off. The word Shia itself means "faction". What you want to follow, is the Quran and authentic sunnah, as taught by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and as you said, to just be a Muslim, doing their best to obey Allah and the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

[Snow]

As a new muslim myself, I am not too interested in defining myself.
By defining myself, I feel like I would be limiting myself, towards Islam.
I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

I feel like the other texts can add and subtract from the Qur'an. That is just me, I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.

[Insaanah]

Assalaamu alaikum brother Snow

I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

The two sources of legislation for our faith, are the Qur'an and sunnah. The sunnah of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was taught to him by Allah, and cannot be neglected. The Qur'an itself tells us to obey the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and the Prophets commands, practices, directives have been recorded and preserved, and must be followed, along with the Qur'an. Sometimes new Muslims think that following the Qur'an only is somehow a purer form of Islam. It is not. In fact it is very dangerous. The Prophets companions were praised by him, and after him, he told us we were to follow them, and they all followed the sunnah, according to Allah's command in the Qur'an and according to how the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) taught them.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.

As new Muslims, you should not try to overwhelm yourself, and you should take things step by step. However, when you say your shahaadah and become a Muslim, it does necessitate acceptance of all that is mandated for a Muslim, and obeying Allah and his messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

While everyone may feel Islam is personal to them, it is really important to note that we can't pick and choose the bits we choose to believe in. It is a whole. There is no compulsion in becoming a Muslim, i.e. you cannot force someone to become a Muslim. That is what the ayah refers to. One can't use that verse to say that once you are a Muslim, there's no compulsion as to what you follow/don't follow.

So, as a summary, the Qur'an and sunnah must both be followed.
We should do our best to fulfil the obligatory things in Islam to the best of our ability.
As new Muslims, take things step by step and don't overwhelm yourself.
Continue to post any questions/queries here so that we can help you. Also try to find some teachers locally, if possible.
As new Muslims, it is easy to not know that certain paths are not right. Stay on the way of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions (may Allah be pleased with them), following Qur'an and Sunnah. Do NOT follow split-off grups such as Shia, Qur'an only, etc.

May Allah keep you steadfast on the straight path and guide us all, ameen.

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[Snow]

Assalaamu alaikum brother Snow



The two sources of legislation for our faith, are the Qur'an and sunnah. The sunnah of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was taught to him by Allah, and cannot be neglected.

So, as a summary, the Qur'an and sunnah must both be followed.

You may be right.
I have a couple of questions.
In 6:38 Allah says that he/Qu'ran has not left out/neglected a thing.
is that not a statement of the Qu'ran as a complete source?


Some sunnah seem to contradict the Qu'ran.

but I again say that I am no expert and these are just questions.

[.muslim girl.]

the right way is (sunnah)
cause following allah and muhammad

but shia !
they hate muhammad's wife (Aisha) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهَاْ
they hate muhammad's friends
for example (omar iben alkhattab) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهُ

their religion is really terrible !
it's not even Islam !!! :heated:

[Snow]

the right way is (sunnah)
cause following allah and muhammad

but shia !
they hate muhammad's wife (Aisha) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهَاْ
they hate muhammad's friends
for example (omar iben alkhattab) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهُ

their religion is really terrible !
it's not even Islam !!! :heated:

Not that I am about to solve the problem.
I just do not understand why people are focusing on how he/she is not following the right path. Instead of just trying their best on focusing on themselves.
if someone is a good muslim, I could not care less how they define themselves.

[Insaanah]

In 6:38 Allah says that he/Qu'ran has not left out/neglected a thing.
is that not a statement of the Qu'ran as a complete source?

You will notice the Qur'an does not tell us how many rakats (units) in each prayer, what percentage of zakat to give, etc. So people who use this ayah to justify their stance on not following the sunnah, as recorded in the hadeeth, then see that the question doesn't make sense. The ayah does not mean that everything, every detail of Islam, every detail of life, of the world is recorded in the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is a complete guide in that it directs us where to go for all the details. So many verses on obeying the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Allah taught the prophet the details of Islam that are not in the Qur'an, gave details for some parts which are.

This is one translation of the verse you gave the reference for:

There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.

One interpretation is that the Book here is not in reference to the Qur'an but the preserved tablet that has recorded on it everything that will occur up until the Day of Judgement. This is similar to Surah Hood, ayah 6.

If one takes the Book to refer to the Qur'an, this does not imply that the sunnah is not an authority and obligatory upon Muslims to follow. As we all know, the details concerning the prayer, zakat, fasts etc are not all spelled out, detailed, or explained in the Qur'an. So, in order for this interpretation to be accurate, given the reality of the situation, it must mean the following as ibn al-Jawzi explained it: "It is a general statement that has a particular intent behind it. The meaning therefore is: We have not omitted anything which you would be in need of except that it has been made clear in the book, either by clear text, undetailed statement, or indication." In other words, everything is mentioned in the Book, in either direct detail, or by reference to the source where the necessary detail can be found. Hence the Book itself does not contain details of the prayers, fasts and so forth, but the Book points the believer to where those details can be found: the sunnah of the Prophet . When understood in this manner, such verses are not an argument against the authority of the sunnah (or it's records in the hadeeth), but rather it's indispensability.

Clearly Allah does not spell out all the details of worship, law and life in the Qur'an itself. Instead, the Qur'an points the believer to all that is needed to be truly guided. Included in this is the sunnah itself as well as other aspects such as contemplating creation and so forth. The Qur'an clarifies all that is needed in one's life and part of what is needed in one's life is adherence to the sunnah of the messenger of Allah . The Book itself makes this fact abundantly clear with it's numerous verses containing the command to obey the Prophet . When we follow the Qur'an we are following Allah's words and command, as not a word of it is from the Prophet . To obey the Prophet we must follow his sayings, commands, actions, as they are recorded in the hadeeth. There is no more accurate record of the sunnah, than their preservation in the authentic hadeeth.

The sunnah of our beloved prophet is preserved down to the minutest detail in the authentic hadeeth, which is only proper if he is the last prophet, sent for the whole of mankind until the end of time, after whom no prophet will come. Otherwise the verse telling us that we have in the Prophets example a beautiful pattern of conduct for us, is meaningless.

If a person believes that nothing other than the word of Allah is to be considered, and any explanation by the Prophet is invalid, or that all explanations by him cannot be relied upon wholesale, in essence this is implying that Allah, instead of sending His book through a Prophet, could have sent printed copies directly to each individual, if it's explanation by the Prophet was not necessary, and if each individual had to use his/her own personal reasoning as it's explanation. It's implying that if He knew with His knowledge of the future that the records of the prophets explanations would be wholesale rejected and classified as corrupt, then He got it all wrong by sending it through a prophet and asking the prophet to explain it for mankind. But Allah did not leave us to fumble in the dark making our our own explanations, he sent the book to a prophet, described in the Qur'an as a mercy for all mankind, to show us how to put it into practice, to explain it to us, to show us the details for certain things mentioned without detail in the Qur'an etc. Allah was indeed was merciful to us in leaving us such a rich and detailed source of the explanation of the Qur'an, it exegesis, and in the Prophets character and practices, so that we can follow his example.

[Insaanah]

Also see these threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...thequraan.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...ic-hadith.html

[.muslim girl.]

Not that I am about to solve the problem.
I just do not understand why people are focusing on how he/she is not following the right path. Instead of just trying their best on focusing on themselves.
if someone is a good muslim, I could not care less how they define themselves.

but they will never focusing on themselves !
actually they believe that they will go to heaven if they killed sunnis
we can't live in peace with them
they always hurt us :hmm:

[Snow]

You will notice the Qur'an does not tell us how many rakats (units) in each prayer, what percentage of zakat to give

This is one translation of the verse you gave the reference for:

We have neglected nothing in the Book,

About the zakat amount there is 17:26
Sahih International
And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully.

Just because it does not mention a percentage it is not right?
I do not agree with it but that is all right.

[Insaanah]

About the zakat amount there is 17:26
Sahih International
And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully.

Just because it does not mention a percentage it is not right?

Nobody said said the verse isn't right, and we seek Allah's refuge from such a notion.

Your point was that all details are in the Qur'an therefore we do not need anything else. The verse tells you to give, but not how much. This is where you need the sunnah. Have you read the information given and also I made another post after that with two links you may find very useful, in why we have to follow the sunnah, and about the hadeeth.

I do not agree with it but that is all right.

What do you not agree with?

[Snow]

Nobody said said the verse isn't right, and we seek Allah's refuge from such a notion.

Your point was that all details are in the Qur'an therefore we do not need anything else. The verse tells you to give, but not how much. This is where you need the sunnah. Have you read the information given and also I made another post after that with two links you may find very useful, in why we have to follow the sunnah, and about the hadeeth.



What do you not agree with?

For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Again, i could be very wrong.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Snow,

I understand your feelings, I think. Having found the Beauty of the Qur'an, you feel a little reluctance, especially when you hear and see some things offered as Sunnah that seem to offend your Heart's sense, to accept everything that is said or shown to you.

And there is wisdom in this. Not everything that is offered (in fact, too much) is true, or properly conveyed, or put into its proper context.

But there is also wisdom in looking at the Sunnah carefully. Because there is a great deal of useful and necessary information in it.

So what is a believer to do? Who to trust? What to believe? When approaching the Sunnah, I was very wary for years. But then I came across an excellent book by one of my favourite scholars, Yusuf Al-Qaradawi. Not only is he an excellent scholar in his rigour and knowledge, but he has a most beautiful character. He sincerely tries to understand the texts in the way best pleasing to Allah. While conservative in his methods, he is generous in his understanding. He is, in my opinion, a scholar of the sort that was best in Classical times, when it was believed that one could not be a true scholar unless one had an excellent character and manners.

Some years ago, a very high quality translation of his book Approaching the Sunnah: comprehension and controversy was published by The International Institute of Islamic Thought. If you are of an intellectual bent, I suspect that this will answer many of your questions and doubts concerning the Sunnah.

May you find the Path that leads ever closer to Him.

[InToTheRain]

:salam:

Brother Gord it's really not that complicated if you know what the Majority follow. People follow scholars or "Learned" individuals so we need to know what the Majority of Scholars that have existed followed and so the tasks becomes more simple because there are many books written by thousands of scholars. I will break it down here:

1) Mohammad(SAW) already prophesied that the Muslims will split with into 73 sects and also told us the ones who split from the Majority are deviants and therefore all divisions will be a minority. So if a group appears and does something without the concencus (Ijma) of the scholars they are said to be deviants and it falls under reprehensible Innovation. However if the Majority of scholars agree upon it it becomes accepted and something the Majority follows.

2) Overwhelming Majority of Scholars for the last 1000 years have been following "Madhabs" which basically means schools of thoughts. This schools of thought basically came into existence due to unlearned and deviants individuals minsterpreting Qur'an and Sunnah which in turn caused mischief in the Muslim Lands. So the Scholars who were experts in Qur'an and Hadith united to confront the mischief makers. So in order to follow Qur'an and Sunnah properly and as our Pious predecessors have done we just need to see what the Madhab teaches and follow it.

3) There are 4 Madhabs - Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali. These aren't sects because they never conflicted with each other and "Ijma" has been reached by all scholars on their validity so they no longer fall under the category of "reprehensible Innovation" . So anyone who follows a Madhab is of the saved sect and the Majority.

I advise you to follow an Imam who has learnt from any of these Madhabs. Hope that's clarified the issue for you.

[Insaanah]

For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Firstly, have you had a chance to read all the other points I've made, and the threads in the links I've given you? If so, have you understood them? Have any questions have arisen from them?

As to the quote above, this perfectly illustrates what happens when you reject the sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), the greatest teacher in the world, sent by Allah to teach us our religion and its practices, which has been taught to him by God, and instead take your own wrong understanding. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), informed us that zakat on cash, gold, silver etc is 2.5%, in the authentic ahadeeth, as mentioned here: Evidence from the Sunnah for the rate of zakaah being 2.5% - islamqa.info. After the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has told us, there is no room for own opinion or what you yourself think is right.

It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. (Translation of Qur'an 33:36)

For people who do not want to follow sects, both of you seem to be veering (even if inadvertently) towards just that. The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions (may Allah be pleased with them) weren't Shia, they weren't sunnah rejectors. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) followed the Qur'an and taught the sunnah as instructed to him by God and practised it himself and ordered others to do the same. And that is the only thing that is acceptable, to follow the Qur'an and sunnah. Anything else has veered off the right path.

May Allah guide you both and us all to the straight path, and once we are on it, keep us steadfast on it, ameen.

[drac16]

Salam alaykum,

Everyone has a tradition. We're standing on the shoulders of giants and it's important we recognize that. Present day muslims would not have a faith so refined if we hadn't had the sahaba and, to a lesser extent, people such as Imam Bukhari, Imam al-Ghazali, Abu Hanifa, Junayd, Imam ash-Shafi'i, Imam Nawawi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, etc. [may Allah be pleased with them]. As sunnis, we follow the way of the sahaba, but our understanding of how they lived and how they understood the Prophet [peace be upon him], is, to a large extend, the result of us learning from others. If we say that we're "just muslims" and that we have no traditions, that is to do a disservice to the many brave men and women who were willing to die to live out the sunnah.

We're muslims before we are sufis, hanafis, salafis, shafi'is, deobandis or anything like that. We still have traditions, though. We can have disagreements on minor things. I'm not a salafi, but I can pray next to a salafi brother with confidence because I know that there's something greater than ourselves that holds us together, despite the minor disagreements we have.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


(smile) I also became interested in Shi'a thought about 15 years ago. And I have also asked myself: why can't we all just be Muslims?


So this is a brief summary of what I found: After the Prophet's (PBUH) death, there were political struggles for who would lead the Muslims. The “shi'a Ali” were literally the “party of Ali”. They felt that Ali (RA) should have been the leader, not Abu Bakr (RA). While Ali (RA) did eventually end up leading the Muslims, there continued to be more struggles for power, particularly after Ali (RA) was assassinated. And what started out as a political division gradually ended up acquiring doctrinal divisions, too.


There have been struggles within the Sunni groups, too, but they have gelled in the present time to 4 schools of thought (mathaahib) that generally respect one another.There were other schools in the past, and the present 4 have not always gotten along as well. And the Shi'a have their own school.


Personally, I'm not very interested in doctrinal fights. I'm more interested in finding Allah's Will and Pleasing Him. I think it is fair to say that the majority of Muslims identify as Sunni, and that this is a powerful argument for the view that to be a Sunni is more Pleasing to Allah, because social harmony is important in Islam. But I have read Shi'a texts, and spoken with Shi'a people. And I believe that there are people who call themselves Shi'a who are struggling towards Allah. It could be argued that perhaps it would be an even greater social harmony if we could respect one another more and deal with more urgent problems in our world, instead of fighting between ourselves about who has greater doctrinal purity.


As I understand it, “Muslim” is not just a label. It implies a certain kind of relationship with God. A relationship of acknowledgement of God and a surrendering of the Self to Allah, Who Knows, Who Cares, Who Decrees. A Muslim, by definition, is one who actively seeks to be in a state of Islam (of surrender to Allah).


It seems to me that we humans are in varying degrees of proximity to full Islam. And that none of us really knows anyone's true state.


As the judging of a person's relationship with Him is Allah's province, I think it in appropriate of me to reject or feel superior to anyone who is working on his or her relationship with Allah. In Classical times, it was felt that the safest course to take is to assume that everyone else may be better Beloved by Allah than yourself, and to treat them with respect and dignity, and to assume that you yourself are lacking in perfection (which we so are!) and focus on your own flaws.


This is the course I prefer to take. I do not agree with some fundamental Shi'ite ideas, but I do not consider a person who labels himself as Shi'a as therefore non-Muslim. This is Allah's jurisdiction. And one Day, He Will Inform us of all upon which we disagree.


(smile) And in the meantime, we can read our Qur'an, ahadith, eminent scholars, talk to our neighbours, take walks in the forest... and do the best we can with what we understand.


But only Allah truly Knows.


May He Guide our feet on the Path towards Him.

[InToTheRain]

Salam alaykum,

Everyone has a tradition. We're standing on the shoulders of giants and it's important we recognize that. Present day muslims would not have a faith so refined if we hadn't had the sahaba and, to a lesser extent, people such as Imam Bukhari, Imam al-Ghazali, Abu Hanifa, Junayd, Imam ash-Shafi'i, Imam Nawawi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, etc. [may Allah be pleased with them]. As sunnis, we follow the way of the sahaba, but our understanding of how they lived and how they understood the Prophet [peace be upon him], is, to a large extend, the result of us learning from others. If we say that we're "just muslims" and that we have no traditions, that is to do a disservice to the many brave men and women who were willing to die to live out the sunnah.

We're muslims before we are sufis, hanafis, salafis, shafi'is, deobandis or anything like that. We still have traditions, though. We can have disagreements on minor things. I'm not a salafi, but I can pray next to a salafi brother with confidence because I know that there's something greater than ourselves that holds us together, despite the minor disagreements we have.

:salam:

Well said :)

Difference in opinion has always existed. For example:

The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said in a hadith which is related by al-Bukhari, he said that everybody should pray at Bani Quraydah at Asr. Now when the sahaba were on the way to Bani Quraydah, Asr time came. Some of the sahaba understood that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was telling them to hurry up and be at Bani Quraydah by Asr time. That is how they understood the statement. Other ones said no we don’t pray Asr until we get to Bani Quraydah so some of the sahaba prayed the Asr prayer because the time came in and they said we were late, we didn’t get to Bani Quraydah by Asr so we are going to pray now. The other group of sahaba said no. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said do not pray Asr unless you are at Bani Quraydah. So they chose to delay and when they got to Bani Quraydah they told the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) what happened and the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not condemn either group. In other words he accepted their ijtihad, both of the two groups so that is a very important hadith that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not blame either one. - See more at: Sheikh Hamza Yusuf | Transcript > Etiquettes of Disagreement

And it's a mercy from Allah Most High that we accept our differences and get along. In the example above both groups of Sahaba who differed in their actions were correct. So there can be more then one right course of Action. Similarly with the Madhabs no matter which you follow they are all correct despite their differences because they are all grounded on Qur'an and Sunnah.

[saif-uddin]

As a new muslim myself, I am not too interested in defining myself.
By defining myself, I feel like I would be limiting myself, towards Islam.
I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

I feel like the other texts can add and subtract from the Qur'an. That is just me, I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.

This doesn't make any sense,

If your a Muslim, then you must strive to be a Good Muslim,

as for the Sunnah of the Messenger :saws:, if you Reject it, like Hadith Rejectors, it is Kufr, and takes you out of the fold of Islam, not to mention that you would be Disobeying Several Direct commands of Allah ta'ala and be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

May Allah ta'ala rectify your conduct and affairs,

ameen

:jz:

[gord]

be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

How so? i find all 3 in my Qu'ran. :hmm:

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


Mmm, brother Saifuddin is perhaps a little energetic in his views. (twinkle) I remember being young and categorical, too.


Nevertheless, it is correct to say that there is information for the daily how-to of life that we need, that is not in the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an exhorts the believer to pray. But the full details on when and how are not described (believe me, I looked). This is when it is necessary to consult other sources.


It's a bit like having a travel guidebook. You can get a lot of general information from the guidebook, but then you need to consult other sources (timetables,specific hotels, travel agents, detailed maps...) to get the details that will enhance and optimize your travel experience.


Or a Constitution. It will give you the framework to work within, but you still need all the various levels of legislation to deal with day-to-day life. For example, the Constitution, by itself, does not tell drivers about specific speed limits and penalties for when those limits are exceeded.


That said, I would encourage those new to Islam to take things slowly. The Qur'an is the best guide for you. Just be aware that other sources of information exist, and that it will be useful to slowly become aware of them.


And for Saifuddin: My dear, just as the immigrant to a new country needs time to figure out all the laws and penalties, so do those new to Islam (regardless of their ethnic or cultural heritage) need time to explore this new land of Islam. Let us be welcoming and gracious hosts... even if they do, in their ignorance, walk through our kitchens in their muddy shoes...


May Allah, the Kind and Forgiving, Guide our efforts in our struggle towards Him.

[gord]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


Mmm, brother Saifuddin is perhaps a little energetic in his views. (twinkle) I remember being young and categorical, too.


Nevertheless, it is correct to say that there is information for the daily how-to of life that we need, that is not in the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an exhorts the believer to pray. But the full details on when and how are not described (believe me, I looked). This is when it is necessary to consult other sources.


It's a bit like having a travel guidebook. You can get a lot of general information from the guidebook, but then you need to consult other sources (timetables,specific hotels, travel agents, detailed maps...) to get the details that will enhance and optimize your travel experience.


Or a Constitution. It will give you the framework to work within, but you still need all the various levels of legislation to deal with day-to-day life. For example, the Constitution, by itself, does not tell drivers about specific speed limits and penalties for when those limits are exceeded.


That said, I would encourage those new to Islam to take things slowly. The Qur'an is the best guide for you. Just be aware that other sources of information exist, and that it will be useful to slowly become aware of them.


And for Saifuddin: My dear, just as the immigrant to a new country needs time to figure out all the laws and penalties, so do those new to Islam (regardless of their ethnic or cultural heritage) need time to explore this new land of Islam. Let us be welcoming and gracious hosts... even if they do, in their ignorance, walk through our kitchens in their muddy shoes...


May Allah, the Kind and Forgiving, Guide our efforts in our struggle towards Him.

good post! Salaam.

[Insaanah]

How so? i find all 3 in my Qu'ran. :hmm:

As I mentioned before, the Qur'an tells you to give zakat, but doesn't mention how much we have to give. That's in the hadeeth.

The Qur'an tells you to perform hajj, but doesn't tell you exactly how hajj must be done. The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) taught us that, exactly how Allah instructed him, and that is recorded in the hadeeth.

The Qur'an tells us to pray, but doesn't tell us how many units in each prayer, what to say in each position etc. Allah of this was taught to us by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He was taught by Allah, how to pray, how to give zakat, how to perform hajj, etc, and then he taught us. And what he taught us, is recorded in the authentic hadeeth, and must be followed. In case there's any confusion, it isn't an optional extra.

Many people are under the misperception that the hadeeth are just something written by men hundreds of years after the Prophets death and are not really relevant because they are not divine. People don't realise, that in matters of deen, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) didn't make up anything himself. He was taught by Allah. He didn't make up how to do hajj, or how much zakat to give, or how many units in each prayer or what to say. He was taught by Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He. Those teachings, which he taught us, to teach us our religion, are recorded in the hadeeth, and as we know, salaat, zakaat, hajj etc are compulsory (the latter two on those who have the means). If we don't perform them according to the rules, they are at risk of being completely invalid. Rejection of the hadeeth is tantamount to rejection of Allah's teachings given to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and strikes at the very roots and the very foundation of ones faith.

Without following the sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), we cannot follow Islam properly, and it is extremely dangerous.

[Snow]

This doesn't make any sense,

If your a Muslim, then you must strive to be a Good Muslim,

as for the Sunnah of the Messenger :saws:, if you Reject it, like Hadith Rejectors, it is Kufr, and takes you out of the fold of Islam, not to mention that you would be Disobeying Several Direct commands of Allah ta'ala and be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

May Allah ta'ala rectify your conduct and affairs,

ameen

:jz:

6:114 "Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book (the Qu'ran) explained in detail." "



I do not agree with you but that is perfectly fine. You will live your life like you consider it right, just as I will live my life, trying to do my best to be a good muslim.
In the end we will have to die and Allah shall judge us.

Fitting for this discussion:
18:54 "We have explained in detail in this Qur'an for the benefit of mankind every kind of similitude: but man is in most things contentious. "

Again, I consider life to be a test and each muslim will have to find their own path. I could be wrong and I could be right but in the end, I am only responsible for my path. I wont force my views on anyone.

[InToTheRain]

:salam:

Just some general points to remember:

1) Qur'an says It will misguide those who are arrogant and those who are wicked:

[Quran 17:82] We send down in the Quran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.

[Quran 7:146] I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally heedless thereof.

2) Qur'an instruct us to refer to those who know:

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43),

" If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83),

3) In order to protect the Shariah from the danger of innovation and distortion, the great scholars of usul laid down rigorous conditions which must be fulfilled by anyone wishing to claim the right of ijtihad for himself. These conditions include:

(a) mastery of the Arabic language, to minimise the possibility of misinterpreting Revelation on purely linguistic grounds;

(b) a profound knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and the circumstances surrounding the revelation of each verse and hadith, together with a full knowledge of the Quranic and hadith commentaries, and a control of all the interpretative techniques discussed above;

(c) knowledge of the specialised disciplines of hadith, such as the assessment of narrators and of the matn [text];

(d) knowledge of the views of the Companions, Followers and the great imams (the Imams of the Madhabs), and of the positions and reasoning expounded in the textbooks of fiqh, combined with the knowledge of cases where a consensus (ijma) has been reached;

(e) knowledge of the science of juridical analogy (qiyas), its types and conditions;

(f) knowledge of ones own society and of public interest (maslahah);

(g) knowing the general objectives (maqasid) of the Shariah;

(h) a high degree of intelligence and personal piety, combined with the Islamic virtues of compassion, courtesy, and modesty.

4) So unless you meet the criteria above you should use the Qur'an and Hadith for reference only and not for drawing conclusions upon which to act. You need to refer to those who know. If you do that with your current knowledge it would be like looking at half a picture and trying to draw conclusions as to what message the picture entailed; clearly it will be different to those who know the whole picture and hence you will conflict with them.

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

What you have written here is very pertinent. If we are indeed to use the Qur'an as our source, and if indeed we will consider the whole revelation, then let us also note the numerous verses commanding us to follow the Sunnah, not just as an additional piece of information for our interest, but as a vital source of our guidance and salvation:

Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and commanded him to explain it to the people, as He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”

[al-Nahl 16:44]

The hadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is a revelation (wahy) from his Lord. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:2-4]

Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call mankind to worship Allaah alone, and to disbelieve in any (god) apart from Him, and (He sent him) to bring the glad tidings of Paradise and warnings of Hell:

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner,

And as one who invites to Allaah [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allaah (Alone)] by His Leave, and as a lamp spreading light (through your instructions from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah the legal ways of the Prophet)

[al-Ahzaab 33:45-46 – interpretation of the meaning]

The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was anxious over this ummah; he did not know of anything good but he told them of it, and he did not know of anything evil but he warned them against it:

“Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad) is anxious over you; for the believers (he is) full of pity, kind, and merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:128 – interpretation of the meaning]

Every Prophet was sent only to his own people, but Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to all of mankind:

“And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:101 – interpretation of the meaning]

Because the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) conveyed the revelation that was sent down to him from His Lord, it is obligatory to obey him. Indeed, obedience to him is obedience to Allaah:

“He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allaah”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:80 – interpretation of the meaning]

Obedience to Allaah and His Messenger is the way to salvation and victory, and to happiness in this world and in the Hereafter:

“And whosoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell‑fire and will be admitted to Paradise)”

[al-Ahzaab 33:71 – interpretation of the meaning]

Hence it is obligatory for all people to obey Allaah and His Messenger, because therein lies their success and salvation:

“And obey Allaah and the Messenger (Muhammad) that you may obtain mercy”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:132 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger only harms himself, he does not harm Allaah in the slightest:

“And whosoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:14 – interpretation of the meaning]

Once Allaah and His Messenger have decided a matter, no one has the right to choose concerning that or to object to it; rather it is obligatory to obey and to believe in the truth:

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error

[al-Ahzaab 33:36 – interpretation of the meaning]

A person's faith is not complete until he loves Allaah and His Messenger, and love implies obedience. Whoever wants Allah to love him and forgive his sins must follow the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ‘If you (really) love Allaah, then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’aan and the Sunnah), Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:31 – interpretation of the meaning]

Love of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is not simply the matter of words to be repeated, rather it is the matter of belief and conduct, i.e., obedience to what he commands, belief in what he tells us, avoidance of what he forbids, and avoidance of worshipping Allaah in any way except that which he prescribed.

When Allaah had perfected this religion and the Messenger had conveyed the message of his Lord, Allaah took him to be with Him. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left this ummah with clear proof in which there is no ambiguity. No one deviates from it but he is doomed:

“This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion”

[al-Maa'idah 5:3 – interpretation of the meaning]



And lastly, let us heed the warning given by Allaah :swt: towards those who disregard the Sunnah:

"So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment."

[An-Noor: 63 - interpretation of the meaning]

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord and Snow,

I noticed that you appreciated my posts, and I thank you for considering my words. However, I would like to clarify something that perhaps I did not make clear. When I say that the Qur'an is the best Guide, this is true. But that does not mean that the ahadith should be neglected.

You know, Snow, I looked up a person you mentioned on another thread. And I think I understand now why you may be feeling the way you do. I think I also understand better why some people on this Forum have seemed very sensitive on the topic of the ahadith.

When I said that it may be valid to be a little leery of the ahadith, I meant that everyday people may throw around what they claim are ahadith with reckless abandon. I have heard many things claimed with the authority of a hadith that "everyone" knows…that has ended up being a fabricated or mis-quoted hadith. And it is of this that I am leery. Very leery! But the hadith literature itself is a treasure-house of knowledge. You know, I have immersed myself in it, and found myself transported back to those amazing days of Revelation. It can be very comforting and uplifting. The ahadith are not something to be scorned and ridiculed, or put aside as irrelevant. They are very relevant.

One line of a hadith, or even a whole one will not give you a clear picture. You really do need to read many. Just as (I think Snow) very correctly pointed out that it is important to read the Qur'an as a whole, so do you need to approach the hadith literature holistically.

Of course, if you are just starting out, you cannot ingest everything at once. This takes time and reflection. And you need the Qur'an to Guide you through the ahadith, too (smile. You need the Qur'an to Guide you through everything!). And by all means, take your time. Just as building a relationship with another person takes time, so does building your relationship with God.

But please, my brothers in Islam, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, be cautious in accepting what Joe Muslim tells you is Allah's Will, by all means. But don't reject that which can bring you great benefit, just because you don't know it well yet. And be very careful of people who pretend to love Muslims, but subtly cause others to reject and denigrate them.

May Allah, the Generous, Illuminate our sincerely seeking hearts.

[amrabdulrahman]

For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Again, i could be very wrong.

Yes dear you are wrong.
"Salaat" a singe word have meaning dua, prayer and more. How can we know the true meanings untill we know the sunnah. Sunnah shows salaat means the a specific way to pray. When, where how to pray.
Also quran says about zakat nabi kaeem s.a.w.w sunnah told us the percentage. Who have to pay whom have to pay.
Quran says about hajj and sunnah shows us the way to perform hajj. When, where and how to perform.
If we leave sunnah then there will be no way to perform faraiz.
Quran only mention about faraiz and sunnah shows us how to perform faraiz.
Deen is nothing without sunnah and without sahaba r.a.
Infact sunnat is sharah of quran and fiqah is sharah of quran and sunnah.
It looks like u belong to parvazi sect (those who refuse the importence of sunnah).

[amrabdulrahman]

As ALLAH guided you to islam (truth), in sha ALLAH you will find the truth about haq (sunni).