Hello

[Mr. Black]

I guess I should introduce myself. Not much to say about me I suppose. I was raised in a Mormon home, but upon learning of Mormons' past history regarding polygamy, and their teaching that it will take place in heaven, I became convicted to leave that religion, as I knew it was false, and that the LDS "god" does not exist. I spent a good 8 years living in angry rebellion against God, until Christ saved me from my sins in November of 2007.

I recently saw a video of a British lady talking to Muslim protesters in Britain. The video was crafted in a way to try to make the Muslims in it look like cold-hearted barbarians, but in actually I could see that the lady was as blind as a bat, and didn't understand the concept of worldviews. She essentially acted as though Muslims were monsters because they didn't assume her worldview to be true. Near the end of the video, she was talking to a polite man, and when she asked him a question about hell, and he answered and tried to exhort her to turn around and submit to Allah, she acted like she had hurt feelings, instead of reasoning with him. While I'm not a Muslim (every fiber of my being belongs to Christ), I believe the video was a bit ignorant, irrational, and unfair to the people she was talking to.

Anyhoo, seeing that video made me want to gain a greater understanding of Islam.

[MuslimInshallah]

Welcome to the Forum, Mr. Black,

Thank you for your honesty and desire to seek the truth. If we all tried to understand one another better, this would be a much kinder world, I think.

God Guides us in many ways, if we open our hearts to see. It seems to me you have some understanding of this. And it is a pleasure to meet you.

(smile) as to being a Muslim or not, as far as God Tells us, this is a relationship between a person and Himself. When we struggle to surrender ourselves to His Will, we are being Muslims. When we chose to try to mute that inner sense that tells us right from wrong so that we can follow our own vain desires, then we are being the opposite of Muslim: Kaafir (one who covers his heart and is ungrateful). (smile) these terms are thrown around a lot, but in the Qur'an, this is what they mean.

For me, someone who understands that their whole being belongs to God (which of course, is true. He is the Sovereign of us all), is on the Path towards God. I would argue that such a person, though he may not know himself this way, is, indeed a Muslim, in that he is walking on this Path with sincerity. Of course, none of us is in a perfect state of Islam (surrender to God). There is always more to learn and do before we meet our Lord, and we have times when we are in closer harmony with His Will, and feel His Love, than others. But what is important is that we try, that we struggle towards Him.

Anyway, peace to you Mr.Black. I look forward to seeing your comments on this Forum. And I invite you to peruse the various archived threads. There are many interesting discussions, (twinkle) though as we are all flawed creatures, don't take what we say as God's Word.

May God Shower you with His Mercy and Loving Kindness.

[Mr. Black]

Welcome to the Forum, Mr. Black,

Thank you for your honesty and desire to seek the truth. If we all tried to understand one another better, this would be a much kinder world, I think.

Thank you, MuslimInshallah. Definitely. It's kinda scary how few people actually want to understand each other in this day and age.

God Guides us in many ways, if we open our hearts to see.

I'm guessing you don't mean through different religions here, as Islam and Christianity both claim to be the only true religion.

It seems to me you have some understanding of this. And it is a pleasure to meet you.

Ibelieve I understand what you mean. And thank you! It's a pleasure to meet you too. :statisfie

(smile) as to being a Muslim or not, as far as God Tells us, this is a relationship between a person and Himself. When we struggle to surrender ourselves to His Will, we are being Muslims. When we chose to try to mute that inner sense that tells us right from wrong so that we can follow our own vain desires, then we are being the opposite of Muslim: Kaafir (one who covers his heart and is ungrateful). (smile) these terms are thrown around a lot, but in the Qur'an, this is what they mean.

Thank you for that. I wasn't sure what those terms meant.

For me, someone who understands that their whole being belongs to God (which of course, is true. He is the Sovereign of us all), is on the Path towards God.

I think this may be an area where Islam and Christianity differ. I believe there's a difference between understanding the truth and submission to the God who gives that truth. I think a person can understand his own nature (and that entails that he understands himself as the creature that God made him to be---which means he has at least some understanding of the God who made him), but at the same time, the person who understands that may also refuse to submit to God.

I would argue that such a person, though he may not know himself this way, is, indeed a Muslim, in that he is walking on this Path with sincerity. Of course, none of us is in a perfect state of Islam (surrender to God).

I think this statement is true in one sense, but maybe not in another sense. I agree with this in the sense that "Muslim" means a person who has submitted to God. I think where one of the main conflicts lies is in the question of who God is. When that question is asked, and if it's shown that two different people who claim to submit to God actually refer to two different Gods, then must be an idolater. imsad

There is always more to learn and do before we meet our Lord, and we have times when we are in closer harmony with His Will, and feel His Love, than others. But what is important is that we try, that we struggle towards Him.

I think I can agree with most of this as a Christian, only since one does not get to heaven because of works in the Christian worldview (but rather does good works because he loves the God who's taking him to heaven) the order, and cause & effect may be a bit different.

Anyway, peace to you Mr.Black. I look forward to seeing your comments on this Forum. And I invite you to peruse the various archived threads. There are many interesting discussions, (twinkle) though as we are all flawed creatures, don't take what we say as God's Word.

May God Shower you with His Mercy and Loving Kindness.

Thank you so much! I hope to learn a lot here, and look forward to interacting with you guys in the future.

[Muslim Woman]

Hello


Welcome here . Pl. browse the forum and ask about Islam in related threads.

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[MuslimInshallah]

I'm guessing you don't mean through different religions here, as Islam and Christianity both claim to be the only true religion.

Mmm (smile), it depends on how you define different words and concepts. According to the Qur'an, God has sent His Words and instructions through Prophets all through human history, from the first Prophet Adam, through to Jesus and Muhammad (May God Bless them all). Recognition that He is the Lord, our God, and surrender to His Will has been the consistent message through time. The word Islam in Arabic means “state of surrender to God's Will and in which the one who surrenders thereby finds security and inner peace and harmony”. A Muslim actively struggles with his or her Self to surrender to God.

This is not something new since the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). The Qur'an states that all the people who behaved this way through time have been Muslims. So, for example, Adam and his wife were Muslims. Abraham was a Muslim. Jesus was a Muslim (Peace be upon them all)

I think this may be an area where Islam and Christianity differ. I believe there's a difference between understanding the truth and submission to the God who gives that truth. I think a person can understand his own nature (and that entails that he understands himself as the creature that God made him to be---which means he has at least some understanding of the God who made him), but at the same time, the person who understands that may also refuse to submit toGod.

(smile) No, I do not think we disagree on this. In the Qur'an, it is clear that each human being has an inner connection with God. It is inbuilt in our nature. However, we may chose to deliberately ignore our heart's promptings about what we should and shouldn't do, that is, what is pleasing to God, and what is not. When we cover our hearts, we become increasingly unable to feel this distinction. One who covers his/her heart and rejects God's Will is a Kaafir. Such a person is deeply ungrateful to his/her Creator.

I think this statement is true in one sense, but maybe not in another sense. I agree with this in the sense that "Muslim" means a person who has submitted to God. I think where one of the main conflicts lies is in the question of who God is. When that question is asked, and if it's shown that two different people who claim to submit to God actually refer to two different Gods, then must be an idolater.

(smile) How many different infinite, all-Mighty, all-Knowing, all-Creating entities can you have? ...Really, we all worship the same God. But we do have different names for the concept. You know, Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews say Allah when referring to God. The French say Dieu, the Spanish say Dios, the Russians say Bog, Chechens say Del, Iranians say Khoda…

You say tom-ah-to, and I say tom-ay-to... whatever you call God, if the definition is the same, we are surrendering to the same Creator.

I think I can agree with most of this as a Christian, only since one does not get to heaven because of works in the Christian worldview (but rather does good works because he loves the God who's taking himto heaven) the order, and cause & effect may be a bit different.

(smile) This is an interesting point. I have read of Christian debates on the necessity of good works or not. (twinkle) And you know, Muslims can be a little fractious on these points, too.


At the end of the day, no matter what good works we do, we can never be worthy of God's Love and Mercy. He Forgives us and has Mercy on us because He is the Compassionate, Merciful One.


But someone who does destructive acts, and merely mouths pious platitudes...is this person really surrendering to God's Will? If someone has true faith, would not this reflect itself in their behaviour?


You talk about doing good for the love of God. I think this would be Ihsaan. There are actually 3 levels of faith. The first, and lowest, level is Islam. You do the minimum of what God has asked. For those who are cognizant of His Last Instructions, you :acknowledge God and his final messenger, pray, pay your taxes,fast in Ramadan, and go to Mecca to fulfil certain symbolic rites and go through the difficulty of this trip (if you are able to do so), in a self-restrained way.


The second level is Iman. This means you actively trust in God, His Angels, His messages, His messengers, the Day of Judgement and the fact that God Knows all (including what we perceive as past, present and future).


The highest level is Ihsaan. This is when you really have a sense of God. You worship God as if you can see Him. And you do what He Loves, because you love Him, and you want to be loved by Him. And when you do these extra good works, God says: ... I become his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes, and his leg with which he walks...(Bukhari, Book 1, Hadith 95).

So when you talk about doing good for the sake of God because you love Him, I think we would call this Ihsaan.


But only God truly Knows.


May He Bless us and Guide us towards what is most Loved by Him.