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Optimal Unity
10-07-2014, 04:54 AM
The scriptures of many religions speak of a coming leader who will consummate the fulfilment of the divine will on Earth. He will manifest in this person the righteousness and compassion of God, and he will bring about the final defeat of evil, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. The Hebrew title Messiah–’Christ’ in Greek means “anointed one,” that person who will be specially chosen by God for this mission and empowered to accomplish it.

But while the term Messiah is specific to only a few religions, prophecies that a leader will come and accomplish such a mission are nearly universal.

Religions call him by various names: Jews long for the promised Messiah; for Christians the Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth, who has already come and ascended to heaven but will reappear (perhaps in a new guise) at his Second Coming. Muslims also expect the second advent of Jesus, who will come as a Muslim Imam, and among Shiite Muslims there are various expectations of a future Imam Mahdi. Buddhist sutras prophesy the coming of the Maitreya Buddha; Vaishnavite Hindu scriptures prophesy the future descent of an avatar named Kalki; Zoroastrian scriptures prophesy the coming of the Saoshyant; and some Confucian texts speak of a future True Man who will finally bring peace to the world by perfectly instituting the Way of Confucius.

With this in mind and the many faiths and civilisations awaiting the fulfilment of prophesy, could a non-Muslim be the Mahdi, can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?

Yours in faith of the one and only God.

Optimal Unity
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Alpha Dude
10-07-2014, 07:47 PM
Sunni Islam also has the belief that there will be a Mahdi. In fact, there will be two personalities in the end times: The Mahdi (guided one) and Prophet Isa upon him be peace (Jesus).

Both the Mahdi and Prophet Isa can only be Muslim.
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Ishaaq
10-07-2014, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
The scriptures of many religions speak of a coming leader who will consummate the fulfilment of the divine will on Earth. He will manifest in this person the righteousness and compassion of God, and he will bring about the final defeat of evil, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. The Hebrew title Messiah–’Christ’ in Greek means “anointed one,” that person who will be specially chosen by God for this mission and empowered to accomplish it.

But while the term Messiah is specific to only a few religions, prophecies that a leader will come and accomplish such a mission are nearly universal.

Religions call him by various names: Jews long for the promised Messiah; for Christians the Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth, who has already come and ascended to heaven but will reappear (perhaps in a new guise) at his Second Coming. Muslims also expect the second advent of Jesus, who will come as a Muslim Imam, and among Shiite Muslims there are various expectations of a future Imam Mahdi.


Buddhist sutras prophesy the coming of the Maitreya Buddha; Vaishnavite Hindu scriptures prophesy the future descent of an avatar named Kalki; Zoroastrian scriptures prophesy the coming of the Saoshyant; and some Confucian texts speak of a future True Man who will finally bring peace to the world by perfectly instituting the Way of Confucius.

With this in mind and the many faiths and civilisations awaiting the fulfilment of prophesy, could a non-Muslim be the Mahdi, can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?

Yours in faith of the one and only God.

Optimal Unity
To answer your question, “can a non-Muslim be the Imam Mahdi”, the answer is “absolutely not!”


The Imam Mahdi will be a Muslim and will revive the Faith of Islam. Similarly, the Promised Messiah Jesus of Nazareth (peace be upon him) when he comes will follow the Law of Islam, the Shari'ah, and will bring glory to the Religion of Islam. In his time, the Religion of Islam will be ascendant and all other religions will be annihilated.


We do not believe in the so called future saviors that other religions speak about.


We believe that the Messiah who was to come for the Jews was Prophet Jesus of Nazareth (peace be upon him).


Therefore, the messiah who the Jews are waiting for has already come. But we believe that an Anti-Christ (Dajjal) is going to come to mislead humanity. When this Anti-Christ comes the Jews will say “he is our Messiah”.


So the coming savior of other religions is the evil Anti-Christ in our view. Our Messiah will be a follower of Islam and will defeat the Anti-Christ which other religions are waiting for.


In other words, in the near future there will be a great war between Heaven and Hell, between Islam and falsehood, between the true Messiah (Jesus) and the false messiah (Anti-Christ).
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Optimal Unity
10-07-2014, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Sunni Islam also has the belief that there will be a Mahdi. In fact, there will be two personalities in the end times: The Mahdi (guided one) and Prophet Isa upon him be peace (Jesus).

Both the Mahdi and Prophet Isa can only be Muslim.
format_quote Originally Posted by Ishaaq
To answer your question, “can a non-Muslim be the Imam Mahdi”, the answer is “absolutely not!”


The Imam Mahdi will be a Muslim and will revive the Faith of Islam. Similarly, the Promised Messiah Jesus of Nazareth (peace be upon him) when he comes will follow the Law of Islam, the Shari'ah, and will bring glory to the Religion of Islam. In his time, the Religion of Islam will be ascendant and all other religions will be annihilated.


We do not believe in the so called future saviors that other religions speak about.


We believe that the Messiah who was to come for the Jews was Prophet Jesus of Nazareth (peace be upon him).


Therefore, the messiah who the Jews are waiting for has already come. But we believe that an Anti-Christ (Dajjal) is going to come to mislead humanity. When this Anti-Christ comes the Jews will say “he is our Messiah”.


So the coming savior of other religions is the evil Anti-Christ in our view. Our Messiah will be a follower of Islam and will defeat the Anti-Christ which other religions are waiting for.


In other words, in the near future there will be a great war between Heaven and Hell, between Islam and falsehood, between the true Messiah (Jesus) and the false messiah (Anti-Christ).
As-salamu alykum to you both...

Thanks you for that clarification, I am glad the Sunni and the Shia share the belief in the Mahdi. I thought that was the main difference between them.

Can I ask if either of you are aware of the detail, I am not sure if it is in the Quran or Hadith but I do remember comming across it in my research where it states. All of humanity is Muslim, it is just that they do not remember it?

Optimal Unity
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hisnameiszzz
10-07-2014, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Sunni Islam also has the belief that there will be a Mahdi. In fact, there will be two personalities in the end times: The Mahdi (guided one) and Prophet Isa upon him be peace (Jesus).

Both the Mahdi and Prophet Isa can only be Muslim.
Salaams all.

I was just going to post the above too. Sunnis believe in Mahdi. I have no idea about Shia's though.

There are some Muslims who belief Mahdi is already on this earth so the end of times is nigh.
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Optimal Unity
10-07-2014, 09:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Salaams all.

I was just going to post the above too. Sunnis believe in Mahdi. I have no idea about Shia's though.

There are some Muslims who belief Mahdi is already on this earth so the end of times is nigh.
Thank you, am I at a Sunni only site?

Yes indeed the end of times are here. Which time?
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Muhaba
10-08-2014, 11:02 AM
The reason that many religions prophesize the coming of leader who will fill the world with righteousness is because these religions were from God. They taught the same message and all Prophets prophesized the signs of the end times including the coming of the anti-christ. All Prophets were Muslims and their religion was Islam. God sent the same religious message (though their were some differences in practices according to time). Later the teachings of the Prophets were changed by people and the religions got different names such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc. If you look at some of the religion's scriptures, you can see that they teach monotheism. Even Hindu scriptures teach that there is only one God, that there is nothing like God, and that images of God should not be made (although Hindus do the complete opposite).

Thus, only a Muslim can be the Mahdi. Jesus is also a Muslim.
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qalbesaleem
10-08-2014, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Thank you, am I at a Sunni only site?

Yes indeed the end of times are here. Which time?

No, not Sunni only, but most of the opinions represented on this website are going to be Sunni.
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Optimal Unity
10-08-2014, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
The reason that many religions prophesize the coming of leader who will fill the world with righteousness is because these religions were from God. They taught the same message and all Prophets prophesized the signs of the end times including the coming of the anti-christ. All Prophets were Muslims and their religion was Islam. God sent the same religious message (though their were some differences in practices according to time). Later the teachings of the Prophets were changed by people and the religions got different names such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc. If you look at some of the religion's scriptures, you can see that they teach monotheism. Even Hindu scriptures teach that there is only one God, that there is nothing like God, and that images of God should not be made (although Hindus do the complete opposite).

Thus, only a Muslim can be the Mahdi. Jesus is also a Muslim.
I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?
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Abz2000
10-08-2014, 07:21 PM
Assalamu'ala manittaba'al huda,
Namely Al muslimeen wa al mahdieen wa al mu-mineen.


Muslim means "one who submits to Almighty God and achieves peace".

Al-Mahdi means "the (rightly) guided (one)".

Al mu-min means "the believer".

So it's impossible to assume that one doesn't submit to Almighty God and is rightly guided.

Words don't always express meanings,however they often give a stark indication.
Context is more important in understanding projected words and in this case, the literal and contextual meanings are undeniable.

So research, find and accept the truth and be guided thereby.
Surely the rest will fit like a jigsaw puzzle.

The al-walaa and al-baraa of liars, adulterers, unlawful invaders, drunkards, prostitutes etc in contrast to those most in tune with the truthful and virtuous commands in all scriptures, who are accused and vilified for enforcing the laws of God should make the sifting a little easier.
Hope i made sense.
Peace....
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Woodrow
10-08-2014, 08:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?
One can become a Muslim in about 10 seconds. It is very easy to become a Muslim, but it takes a lifetime to be a Muslim

To become a Muslim one need only Know that the shahadah is the truth and to say it at least once with full sincerity and full intention and desire to forever submit all your thoughts, words and deeds to serving Allaah(swt)

But there is a paradox as by becoming a Muslim you would soon realize you are not the Mehdi.

No one will be called to be the Mehdi as he will be born as such.

You may want to read this thread HERE
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Optimal Unity
10-08-2014, 09:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Assalamu'ala manittaba'al huda,
Namely Al muslimeen wa al mahdieen wa al mu-mineen.


Muslim means "one who submits to Almighty God and achieves peace".
I have been with Almighty God since my birth. Achieving peace is the mission I am on for all of humanity.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Al-Mahdi means "the (rightly) guided (one)".
Let me suggest, there is no right or wrong before Allah, Allah know your heart, your mind and your soul, and he is ever merciful. The English you are looking for in this description is "the correctly guided one"

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Al mu-min means "the believer".
Yes I am the beleiver.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
So it's impossible to assume that one doesn't submit to Almighty God and is rightly guided.
I have been guided by Allah since birth, I have submitted to Allah and been judged by Allah and now are ready to execute the plan Allah has divulged to me.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Words don't always express meanings,however they often give a stark indication.
Context is more important in understanding projected words and in this case, the literal and contextual meanings are undeniable.
Indeed, words are very powerful, if Islam did not loose the path of Allah in history Arabic could have been the Universal language, sadly Islam lost that right a long time ago, it is why English is to be the Universal Language.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
So research, find and accept the truth and be guided thereby.
Surely the rest will fit like a jigsaw puzzle.
It is not that simple, you would think the rest would fit like a jigsaw puzzle, however it is a lot more complicated a puzzle. For one you talk of peace, but all the research I have done on the expectation of Islam and the Mahdi suggests Islam is expecting a grand warrior ready to take Muslims into a bloody battle, when clearly that is not the correct path.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The al-walaa and al-baraa of liars, adulterers, unlawful invaders, drunkards, prostitutes etc in contrast to those most in tune with the truthful and virtuous commands in all scriptures, who are accused and vilified for enforcing the laws of God should make the sifting a little easier.
You would need to heed the words of Isa (pbuh) with in this view, judge lest ye be judged, love your neighbour as you yourself, and only Allah knows your true heart, mind and soul.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Hope i made sense.
Peace....
Yes you make sense...hope I make as much sense.

May Allah guide you to the correct path...
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-08-2014, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
One can become a Muslim in about 10 seconds. It is very easy to become a Muslim, but it takes a lifetime to be a Muslim

To become a Muslim one need only Know that the shahadah is the truth and to say it at least once with full sincerity and full intention and desire to forever submit all your thoughts, words and deeds to serving Allaah(swt)

But there is a paradox as by becoming a Muslim you would soon realize you are not the Mehdi.

No one will be called to be the Mehdi as he will be born as such.

You may want to read this thread here
That is why I am Mahdi first and becoming a Muslim second.

I will read the thread you posted, thank you.

May Allah guide you on the correct path.
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strivingobserver98
10-08-2014, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
That is why I am Mahdi first and becoming a Muslim second.

I will read the thread you posted, thank you.

May Allah guide you on the correct path.
Brother I just have one question to ask you. Yes or no reply answer please.

Do you speak arabic? :statisfie
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 12:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by فرحان
Brother I just have one question to ask you. Yes or no reply answer please.

Do you speak arabic? :statisfie
Thank you for your question Brother, do you speak the language of Allah, yes or no answer please.
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Abz2000
10-09-2014, 03:20 AM
Are you an evangelist?
You speak of 'Isa and peace,
Yet having read more than 70% of the bible, one can see the O.T full of blood guts, doom and glory.
And the book of revelation in the NT describing the battles of the end times and describing the chosen servants of God and Christ as great warriors.

Revelation 12:10 KJV

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 KJV

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Law of qisas, in contrast with turning the other cheek alone.
One accuses the believers of terrorism despite the relentless imprisonment and murdering of virtuous people by kuffar who hate what God has revealed, abu ghraib and guantanamo (though recent past) are stark examples of the levels to which evil can stoop, yet when an infidel mercenary is captured and beheaded, (not even a scratch on the surface in terms of retaliation-rather a reluctant warning to stop killing God's servants) the accusations about lack of wisdom, fly far and wide, behold, read thy book describing the end times if thou pleasest:

Revelation 13:9-10 KJV

If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Know that peace is achieved via submission to God and jihad in His way, and not via submission to Satanism/atheism/man worship/stone worship.

Firstly you are granted peace by Almighty God who repents of the declaration of war from Him, secondly, people are able to live in peaceful societies leaving their persons and properties safe and prosperous.

REPENT OF PAST IMPURITUES AND EVIL, AND JUDGE - YES JUDGE - AND ESTABLISH GOD'S LAW UPON EARTH, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS WITHIN YOU AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS HERE. :)
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 03:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Are you an evangelist?
You speak of 'Isa and peace,
Yet having read more than 70% of the bible, one can see the O.T full of blood guts, doom and glory.
And the book of revelation in the NT describing the battles of the end times and describing the chosen servants of God and Christ as great warriors.



Law of qisas, in contrast with turning the other cheek alone.
One accuses the believers of terrorism despite the relentless imprisonment and murdering of virtuous people by kuffar who hate what God has revealed, abu ghraib and guantanamo (though recent past) are stark examples of the levels to which evil can stoop, yet when an infidel mercenary is captured and beheaded, (not even a scratch on the surface in terms of retaliation-rather a reluctant warning to stop killing God's servants) the accusations about lack of wisdom, fly far and wide, behold, read thy book describing the end times if thou pleasest:

Know that peace is achieved via submission to God and jihad in His way, and not via submission to Satanism/atheism/man worship/stone worship.

Firstly you are granted peace by Almighty God who repents of the declaration of war from Him, secondly, people are able to live in peaceful societies leaving their persons and properties safe and prosperous.

REPENT OF PAST IMPURITUES AND EVIL, AND JUDGE - YES JUDGE - AND ESTABLISH GOD'S LAW UPON EARTH, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS WITHIN YOU AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS HERE.
I speak in the direction of Allah, some messages from Isa are overlooked by the so called Gods servants, first take the jihad of self examination there by the grace of God you might find Allah, when you do you might be revealed in the Ultimate Truth, robotic prostration and citation of the words do nothing for that journey, what do you read into it is a testament of your spiritual maturity, I see the way to be with peace with the teachings of all the prophets, to interpret which apply when and where is a skill only revealed to the true servants of the word.
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Alpha Dude
10-09-2014, 06:43 AM
Optimal, with no disrespect intended, you seem to display signs of delusions of grandeur.

You believe yourself to be the figure 'that the scriptures talk about'. This is all in your mind and a product of your vain desires my friend. You have no (and can have no) substance behind such claims.
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 08:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Optimal, with no disrespect intended, you seem to display signs of delusions of grandeur.

You believe yourself to be the figure 'that the scriptures talk about'. This is all in your mind and a product of your vain desires my friend. You have no (and can have no) substance behind such claims.
Yes, I do believe that I am the figure that the scripture talk about, I don't say that lightly, it is a heavy burden, an impossible task, but when you are called, what can you do, If I am not than the least I can do is volunteer to be it, because quite frankly I don't know about any of you I am sick of this waiting around for the leader to appear, I am sick of this violence, I am sick of seeing Islam being ridiculed and used to take away our freedoms, vanity is far removed from my motivations my brother, please, you would be well advised to take care when judging someone in these times, you know nothing about me nor what I have been through. I know where my cave is do you?
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Muhaba
10-09-2014, 09:19 AM
He will be from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . And I believe he won't make the claim to be the Mahdi but his work will show it?
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Scimitar
10-09-2014, 12:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Salaams all.

I was just going to post the above too. Sunnis believe in Mahdi. I have no idea about Shia's though.
Shia Muslims put more providence in the Mahdi narratives than Sunni's - the Shia also have their own set of hadeeth and narratives from their imams regarding the mahdi etc - however, when scrutinised, I found that the shia themselves have compromised their ability to find truth due to the meddling of the jews in Iran who posed as Muslims and gave the Iranian Muslims falsified testimony of end times and messianic figure heads.

Please don't ask me to provide proof - it's out there if you search for it.

Scimi
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InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
He will be from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . And I believe he won't make the claim to be the Mahdi but his work will show it?
Yes Imam Mahdi comes from his(SAW) progeny and he himself is not aware that he is Mahdi and people will not realize he is the Mahdi until the time comes and people will give him Bayah in droves. So the people will anoint him as the Mahdi(RA) before which he will not know he is the Mahdi.

He certainly won't be coming on internet forums looking for followers like opticalillusion
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InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 01:44 PM
His Emergence and the People's Bayat

After the death of a Khalifh there shall be intense dispute and difference of opinion in whom should become the next Khalifh. Fearing he may get caught up in the dispute and made the Khalifh, Imaam Mahdi will flee from Madinah to Makkah. However, to his surprise on reaching Makkah, some Makkans will bring him out of his house against his will and take him to Masjid Haraam and 313 as has been mentioned in the hadith reported by Imam Hakim in Al-Mustadrak will force him to accept their Bayat between the Rukn (corner of the Ka'aba containing the black stone) and the place of Ibrahim. The news of his allegiance will quickly spread and thus an army from Syria will be sent to fight him. However no harm will come to Imaam Mahdi nor his followers who will be supported by Allah. The earth will swallow up this army before it can get near to the Imaam in a place called Baidah (a flat piece of land between Makkah and Madinah). After seeing and hearing about this extraordinary event and sign, the Awliya (pious saints) of Syria and Iraq will come to Imaam Mahdi and swear allegiance to him between the black stone and the Maqam (the place of Ibrahim which is near the Ka'aba). (The above content can be found in the Hadith of Umme Salama/Abu Daud)
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
He will be from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم .
Why will he be from the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh)?

format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
And I believe he won't make the claim to be the Mahdi but his work will show it?
Hence why I state many religions even civilisations have the prophesy of the comming one, Islam desperately wants to be righteous because they have been the children of Allah and followed the right path, but I "the One" of all prophesy say to you Islam has lost its way, yes the faith of Islam is beyond question, however in reality it has become an unmoving camel waving its tail to swat of the flies of corruption and it is helpless because the leaders have sold out to this Devil based system.

No amount of law will change the evil that presides in the path we have been through in history, Islam had it's chance, the glory days where it spread throughout the globe, where truths were revealed to the followers, but give me a scientist, mathematician, physician a thinker thathas made a mark in this age from the house of Islam, it is a rare commodity, why did it stop where it did, there wore willing converts and the power of the word was strong but it failed to be the global dominion that it was prophesied to be, ask yourself that.

Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.

So you see the work has started, do you not agree with my work?
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 07:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
Yes Imam Mahdi comes from his(SAW) progeny and he himself is not aware that he is Mahdi and people will not realize he is the Mahdi until the time comes and people will give him Bayah in droves. So the people will anoint him as the Mahdi(RA) before which he will not know he is the Mahdi.

He certainly won't be coming on internet forums looking for followers like opticalillusion
Why would he come to the Internet to declare anything the Qur'an and the Hadits were so wise and knowledgeable that they stated He will go to the Kaba blah, blah, he will be of the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh) because we are the right path no one is better than us, we know best because we have thought of everything, maybe just maybe if these things don't occur then we have been fooled as we'll, but why would the followers of Allah be fooled, because Allah is the best of the deceivers, and only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Shia Muslims put more providence in the Mahdi narratives than Sunni's - the Shia also have their own set of hadeeth and narratives from their imams regarding the mahdi etc - however, when scrutinised, I found that the shia themselves have compromised their ability to find truth due to the meddling of the jews in Iran who posed as Muslims and gave the Iranian Muslims falsified testimony of end times and messianic figure heads.

Please don't ask me to provide proof - it's out there if you search for it.

Scimi
Wow, blaming the Jew, we'll yes they have a lot to answer for, I mean the fooled the Christians, why not the Shia, but then the Sunni believe in Adam and Eve literally so as it seems they fooled everyone even Muhammad (pbuh).
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InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 07:48 PM
LOL

Mods I believe the question has been answered and also Optical Delusion sounds a lot like acausal; both are in need of their meds. We shouldn't allow people to talk garbage about Allah Most High (see below) as it is in your authority to control it.

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Why would he come to the Internet to declare anything the Qur'an and the Hadits were so wise and knowledgeable that they stated He will go to the Kaba blah, blah, he will be of the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh) because we are the right path no one is better than us, we know best because we have thought of everything, maybe just maybe if these things don't occur then we have been fooled as we'll, but why would the followers of Allah be fooled, because Allah is the best of the deceivers, and only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
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Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 07:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
LOL

Mods I believe the question has been answered and also Optical Delusion sounds a lot like acausal; both are in need of their meds. We shouldn't allow people to talk garbage about Allah Most High (see below) as it is in your authority to control it.

I take exception to this persons insinuation of me is disgusting, I am Josko Joze Sestan aka Josko Jesus Christ if anyone has question of me.

I love Allah and to insinuate otherwise shows ignorance and a lack of comprehension of the Qur'an:

Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
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Signor
10-09-2014, 08:12 PM
You are quite of a character to be dealt with,this is what I must say.Though you seriously lack the ability to galvanize the audience here,not even close to a imposter Jim Jones(909 is an impressive number). If one could able to get the "follower-ship" by merely posting on internet forums,then trust me I can give you plenty of names present only on this board,the words of whom had influenced thousands around the globe and will continue to be.

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?
After a well written post,what a messiah means and how all the major religions of the world are waiting for "the anointed one",you came to what was actually in your mind i.e Declaring yourself as Mahdi(A.S). But it was a failed attempt which shows you have not done the basic homework.When Muslims say "Our Messiah" will come,it means it will Prophet Jesus(A.S). If you went through all the prophetic sayings relating to Mahdi(A.S),you will surely find His stature no matter how High is,will remain secondary to Jesus(A.S). Fact of the matter is we don't even find a single Sahih hadith(which according to Muslims comes next to Quran) mentioning Mahdi(A.S) by his name,his description and events revolving around him.Sunni sources of Hadith stated his name as Muhammad bin Abdullah.

The Messenger of Allah said: "The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.(Abû Dâwûd)

The word "Mahdi" is no where to be found in ahadith but events evolving to his appearance are given.

Umm Salamah reported that the Prophet said, "People will begin to differ after the death of a Khalifah. A man from the people of Madînah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madînah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdi will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." (Abû Dâwûd)

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?
May I know what altar you worship?It very much seems you are involved in some sought of spiritual practices,

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
All of humanity is Muslim, it is just that they do not remember it?
It has a deep meaning more than you can understand but there ya go:

“So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Haneef (worship none but Allaah Alone). Allaah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allaah’s Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq‑illaah (i.e. the religion of Allaah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not” [al-Room 30:30]

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
Hmm,On one side you accepts Allah's supremacy as All-Knower and on the other hand you very much "know" his plans.^o)

format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Allah is the best of the deceivers
We know Allah as best of planners not "Deceivers",this title belongs to Satan,the accursed.

“O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Hawwa’ (Eve)) out of Paradise,” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 27).

O mankind! Be afraid of your Lord (by keeping your duty to Him and avoiding all evil), and fear a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the Promise of Allah is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah.33rd verse of chapter 31 (sūrat luq'mān).

I don't know what your game is but it looks like cat has come out of the bag now.

Have a nice day!
Reply

Signor
10-09-2014, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
Here are few translations by well known translators

http://quran.com/8/30
http://quran.com/3/54

Off course,they couldn't stand to your level of comprehension.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 08:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
I take exception to this persons insinuation of me is disgusting, I am Josko Joze Sestan aka Josko Jesus Christ if anyone has question of me.

I love Allah and to insinuate otherwise shows ignorance and a lack of comprehension of the Qur'an:

Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
It's best of planners not deceivers...where did you get those references from?

And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. 3:54

Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people. 7:99

And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners. 8:30
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
You are quite of a character to be dealt with,this is what I must say.
Thank you.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Though you seriously lack the ability to galvanize the audience here,not even close to a imposter Jim Jones(909 is an impressive number). If one could able to get the "follower-ship" by merely posting on internet forums,then trust me I can give you plenty of names present only on this board,the words of whom had influenced thousands around the globe and will continue to be.
A backhand slap is not becoming, but my mission is to galvanise 7+ Billion Souls, I am not interested in followers or a fellow-ship, I need spiritual warriors, the education process on the deliverance of the plan from Allah on that spirituality is a difficult one, but have no doubt once the tipping point is achieved it will be a challenge to manage the fellow-ship.

format_quote Originally Posted by Signor

Optimal Unity
can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?

After a well written post,what a messiah means and how all the major religions of the world are waiting for "the anointed one",you came to what was actually in your mind i.e Declaring yourself as Mahdi(A.S). But it was a failed attempt which shows you have not done the basic homework.When Muslims say "Our Messiah" will come,it means it will Prophet Jesus(A.S). If you went through all the prophetic sayings relating to Mahdi(A.S),you will surely find His stature no matter how High is,will remain secondary to Jesus(A.S). Fact of the matter is we don't even find a single Sahih hadith(which according to Muslims comes next to Quran) mentioning Mahdi(A.S) by his name,his description and events revolving around him.Sunni sources of Hadith stated his name as Muhammad bin Abdullah.

The Messenger of Allah said: "The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.(Abû Dâwûd)

The word "Mahdi" is no where to be found in ahadith but events evolving to his appearance are given.

Umm Salamah reported that the Prophet said, "People will begin to differ after the death of a Khalifah. A man from the people of Madînah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madînah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdi will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." (Abû Dâwûd)
Thank you. However I speak from the guidance of Allah, not from the homework you think is needed to be the anointed one, the anointed one can only be anointed by Allah.

format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?

May I know what altar you worship?It very much seems you are involved in some sought of spiritual practices,
You can not prostrate or pray your way to Allah, you need to be of a pure heart and be with Allah, my question was facetious.

format_quote Originally Posted by Signor

Optimal Unity all of humanity is Muslim, it is just that they do not remember it?

It has a deep meaning more than you can understand but there ya go:

“So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Haneef (worship none but Allaah Alone). Allaah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allaah’s Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq‑illaah (i.e. the religion of Allaah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not” [al-Room 30:30] as you are separated from the truth of Mohammed truth We are all Muslim, it is just that some don't remember it, for now I choose not to remember it as it as Islam has failed and needs revision.
It is you that does not comprehend the deep meaning, you see it as most of Islam does, follow the rituals and you are a Muslim, what Allah means is that there are 99 names to Allah he applies those attributes equally to all because we are all Muslim.

format_quote Originally Posted by Signor

Optimal Unity Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.

Optimal Unity only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.

Hmm,On one side you accepts Allah's supremacy as All-Knower and on the other hand you very much "know" his plans.^o)
Could there be something to Isa and the trinity, God forbid no, we would be so wrong if it did, right?

format_quote Originally Posted by Signor

Optimal Unity Allah is the best of the deceivers

We know Allah as best of planners not "Deceivers",this title belongs to Satan,the accursed.

“O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Hawwa’ (Eve)) out of Paradise,” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 27).

O mankind! Be afraid of your Lord (by keeping your duty to Him and avoiding all evil), and fear a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the Promise of Allah is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah.33rd verse of chapter 31 (sūrat luq'mān).

I don't know what your game is but it looks like cat has come out of the bag now.

Have a nice day!
Allah is best at everything why not deceiving.

Having an awesome day that you!
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
It's best of planners not deceivers...where did you get those references from?

And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. 3:54

Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people. 7:99

And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners. 8:30
A plan sometimes requires deceit, is this not part of the intricacy of being a Muslim, to lie to non-believers or the like, you even have a name for it. Nice trap Allah. As I have said above Allah is best at everything why not deceit.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity

Allah is best at everything why not deceiving.

Having an awesome day that you!
Allah Most High is the Greatest and only has attributes which are Worthy of Him. Deception is not one of them and He has no need to Deceive! Lying is not one of them!

satan on the other hand does and so does dajjal and you are closer to them both.

Provide me the source to your references for your blatant adulteration of the Noble Qur'an you charlatan!
Reply

Abz2000
10-09-2014, 09:25 PM
Anyone wanna buy a 47 story skyscraper in manhattan than can collapse in a record 6.5 seconds?

If so, join the white house "flying debris" competition and it could be yours. (joke)

I got a bridge for sale there too (not).

This thread should be moved to puzzles and humour.

Made me start remembering the promise of victory in these troubled times though, so thanks evangelical delusion :) (did i get the name/title right?)

I was quite sympathetic despite wondering whether ur an evangelist whom we've seen blueprints of in style and method on this board previously - until you blatantly mistranslated the Quran and blasphemed Almighty God.
But the claims were so fantastic and funny that it somehow lightened the gravity and danger of the accusations.

REPENT.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 09:32 PM
:salam: Dear Brothers and Sisters

Don't allow anyone (particularly non-muslims) to quote a 'dodgy' translation (or even invent an incorrect translation), and then ask you to justify something that Allah SWT did not say in the first place. So always ask them where they got it from.

Here:[3:54] وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ

If you look in respectable and trustworthy Qur'an translations, the word مَكَرَ is always translated as 'Planned' or 'Plotted' but not 'Deceived'.

And then, find a Tafseer (such as Ibn Ktheer RhA) and read about this Verse to understand why it was revealed. You will find that Allah SWT Is Talking here about the jews of Banu Isra'il and how they were 'plotting' to kill Jesus AS, but Allah SWT is a Better 'Plotter' since He Replaced His prophet by another person and they ended up killing the other person, not Jesus AS.

And here: [8:30] وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ

You will find that it's about the non-believers of Quraish 'plotting' to ambush, attack and kill our prophet PBUH, however Allah SWT is a far Superior 'Plotter', since our prophet pbuh walked out unharmed, and all they could find was Ali RA in his bed.

Another great Mufassir (i.e. author of Tafseer), Al-Qurtubi RhA, quotes a Hadith in the translation of the first verse above, where our Propher PBUH, said: "O Allah, May You Plot for me, and not against me"

Beware incorrect Quran translations. Especially those written by orientalists (Mustashriqeen).
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
Allah Most High is the Greatest and only has attributes which are Worthy of Him. Deception is not one of them and He has no need to Deceive! Lying is not one of them!

satan on the other hand does and so does dajjal and you are closer to them both.

Provide me the source to your references for your blatant adulteration of the Noble Qur'an you charlatan!
Allah commands the Devil, some need deceiving as they don't comprehend their true nature. The quote is from the following. http://--------------/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver
Reply

InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Allah commands the Devil, some need deceiving as they don't comprehend their true nature. The quote is from the following. http://--------------/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver
That is not a valid source and they will adulterate Quran and Sunnah as I have shown you. Read my post before yours please. Foiling a Plot made by deceivers is not "deception" rather it is Justice.

To deceive is beneath Allah Most High, rather He is the best of Planners for those that plan against Him cannot match Him. If you want to learn Islam or discuss it then you will have to use appropriate sources.
Reply

Abz2000
10-09-2014, 09:53 PM
Double post.
Reply

Abz2000
10-09-2014, 09:54 PM
I gave up on requesting edits on that site years ago, since, despite their open falsehoods and misrepresentations, they refused to repent of their blasphemies and therefore justify shun and curse.

It also shows the levels to which God's enemies stoop, which is ultimately a blessing in disguise since real researchers of Islam are immunised by it and come to the truth with strength and stability.
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
That is not a valid source and they will adulterate Quran and Sunnah as I have shown you. Read my post before yours please. Foiling a Plot made by deceivers is not "deception" rather it is Justice.

To deceive is beneath Allah Most High, rather He is the best of Planners for those that plan against Him cannot match Him. If you want to learn Islam or discuss it then you will have to use appropriate sources.
Don't blame me, I do not see you as authority on the matter, the wiki is open to all Muslims to edit and modify, praise be to Allah for he truly is the best planer, so people like you as admirable as you might think you are control your fanaticism and adhere to consensus.

Feel free to join the community adjust the meaning as YOU see fit.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-09-2014, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Don't blame me, I do not see you as authority on the matter, the wiki is open to all Muslims to edit and modify, praise be to Allah for he truly is the best planer, so people like you as admirable as you might think you are control your fanaticism and adhere to consensus.

Feel free to join the community adjust the meaning as YOU see fit.
There is a logical fallacy in wanting Qur'an to conform to ones desire as this only means the person is following their desire. Rather you should conform to the standards of the Qur'an and to do that you need to learn from experts in the field; the teachings of the Scholars that have been passed on for generations and their Ijma (concensus) on what those teachings are.
Reply

Woodrow
10-09-2014, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Don't blame me, I do not see you as authority on the matter, the wiki is open to all Muslims to edit and modify, praise be to Allah for he truly is the best planer, so people like you as admirable as you might think you are control your fanaticism and adhere to consensus.

Feel free to join the community adjust the meaning as YOU see fit.
Except wikiislam is not wikipedian. It is an anti-Islamic hate site.
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by InToTheRain
There is a logical fallacy in wanting Qur'an to conform to ones desire as this only means the person is following their desire. Rather you should conform to the standards of the Qur'an and to do that you need to learn from experts in the field; the teachings of the Scholars that have been passed on for generations and their Ijma (concensus) on what those teachings are.
InToTheRain it is admirable that you see no attribute in Allah that implys a negative connotation hence why I say Allah commands even the Devil, so if it makes you feel better think of it as Devils work as you do but know even the Devil is part of the plan. What you need to be asking rather than reciting the meaning of the Qur'an is that if Islam is so blessed why is it looked at in fear by the world and a religion of war and terror not peace and love.

I am not here to debate the meanings of the Qur'an though I get the general point, leave that to those that focus on that, my focus is on how do we revive Islam again, and it is not by beheading the infidels, it is not by a bloody war, it is by the battle of wills and you can not win this will by the historical reason we need to look to the future for answers, what do we want humanity to evolve into?
Reply

Optimal Unity
10-09-2014, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Except wikiislam is not wikipedian. It is an anti-Islamic hate site.
Proof please!
Reply

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