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Masuma
10-13-2014, 06:38 PM
Quran Chapter 33 Verse 72
"Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant."

Now below it explains another reason why man did that to himself, i.e accept the responsibility. But I'm wondering about something else.
1. Since all the creations refused to take up the trust of being bestowed with this free will and, thus, to take the test of the life of this world, for they were scared of the consequences of failure with the only exception of man. So does this other "creation" have understanding and thinking too? The creation talked about here are the heavens and earth and mountains. How did rocks knew it and we humans didn't?!
2. Man accepted the trust to gain the pleasures of the life hereafter and was so attracted to these pleasures that he completely ignored the consequences and the severity of the punishment in case of his failure. How can all of us, humans be so foolish? I mean there are intelligent people too amongst us. Of course someone choose it and made their decision right like Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), but what about the majority of us?


I know these are kind of intellectual questions in a sense that require lots of thinking and might be long discussions but I would really like to know. Jazakumullahu khairan.
ا
لأمانة

[al-amaanata] literally means trust. Something
entrusted to someone. Here in this ayah it can either
mean the Rooh which ALLAH put inside all of us or
it can be referring to the Quran.
جهولا
[jahoolan] originally
جهول

[jahoolan] is
someone who is extremely overwhelmed with
emotion, and extremely impulsive. Whatever his
whims say, he does.
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greenhill
10-14-2014, 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by Masuma
2. Man accepted the trust to gain the pleasures of the life hereafter and was so attracted to these pleasures that he completely ignored the consequences and the severity of the punishment in case of his failure. How can all of us, humans be so foolish? I mean there are intelligent people too amongst us.
Did we accept the trust before the 'ruh' was blown into our jasad? Or was it something that was asked during the creation of mankind which we have become responsible for?

Peace :shade:
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Scimitar
10-14-2014, 01:11 PM
Just thinking out loud here, but does the question relate to the 2 innate gifts Allah has bestowed us with? Imaan and Nafs? (faith and free will/ego?)

On the surface, both are set up to be in direct confrontation of each other - one brings you away from the world and worldly needs and desires and towards Allah ( this is Imaan) and the other, reminds you that you are human and needy, and then the nafs can play you until you become prideful and arrogant - as shaitan did, (this is the Nafs).

According to the exegetes of Ibn Kathir, he tells us that Iblees was horrified when he discovered that Adams then inanimate body was created with both, imaan and nafs, and that this seeming contradiction is why Iblees became immediately jealous of Adam AS.

Apparently, the Malaaika (angels) were given pure Imaan. The Jinn were given Nafs. And us humans, were given both.

"Remember when your Lord said to the angels: 'Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.' They said: 'Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks (exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You.' Allah said: 'I know that which you do not know.' - Quran

We're a special creation, we have the ability to reach the highest of heights, even higher than the worship of angels due to our conflicted condition... and at the same time, we can fall to the lowest of acts, even making the lowly animals feel shame for us.

Scimi
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OmAbdullah
10-27-2014, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
"Remember when your Lord said to the angels: 'Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.' They said: 'Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks (exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You.' Allah said: 'I know that which you do not know.' - Quran
1. This translation is wrong. Please check it and write correct translation. Allah Ta' ala used the word "khalifa" which means vicegerent,so "generation after generation" is a wrong translation.
2. We human beings usually choose to do the things which are beyond our strength. Then Allah Allmighty enables us to do them. That may be our nature that we took that high responsibility of the amanah. Now the necessity is that we MUST obey Allah and HIS Prophet without wasting any of our precious time. We must trust Allah that HE will enable us to fulfill our responsibility and must pray to Allah repeatedly to make us successfull. Insha Allah we will be successful. The Prophets alaihim salaam were human beings like us. Moreover, Allah didn't make the religion Islam difficult for us. Allah is watching us. If we are sincere and practice Islam with the fear of Allah, then surely Allah will make the Islamic way easy for us. Also being the Most Merciful, HE will forgive our short comings, accept our attempts of worship and protect us from HIS Anger. Shaitan is our open enemy. He puts such useless questions in our minds to make us confused and waste our precious time.We must always seek the refuge of Allah from satanic thoughts (waswasah). Just take an example. A family while, crossing a mountain tried to choose a short way. They came upon a point which seemed to be very difficult to cross. now they can pray to Allah for help, they also can think with cool mind how to do with it. They can encourage each other to be hopeful from Allah. If they start cursing themselves and fighting with eachother that why did they choose that way, they will get confused and fail in solving the problem. Allah has made the Islamic way very clear for us. Just go to the Quraan, try to understand it and follow it according to the Method of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, pray to Allah for success and hope success from Allah.
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Scimitar
10-27-2014, 11:39 PM
It is wrong? really? do you know how many translations there are? and what qualifies you to decide which one is wrong and right dear anonymous on forum?
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ardianto
10-28-2014, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
It is wrong? really? do you know how many translations there are? and what qualifies you to decide which one is wrong and right dear anonymous on forum?
Assalamualaikum, my brother Scimitar.

The word which used in Al-Baqarah: 30 is "Khaliifatan". It's refer to "Khalifa" (caliph), means ruler or someone who hold authority, not generations after generations. I know it because I know what is khalifa means in Arabic.

:)
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Ali Mujahidin
10-28-2014, 02:38 AM
I asked Uncle Google and found these:
http://i.imgur.com/IfDz8JE.png
http://i.imgur.com/n8U0oui.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/oYvf0sJ.png
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Scimitar
10-28-2014, 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Assalamualaikum, my brother Scimitar.

The word which used in Al-Baqarah: 30 is "Khaliifatan". It's refer to "Khalifa" (caliph), means ruler or someone who hold authority, not generations after generations. I know it because I know what is khalifa means in Arabic.

:)
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." - sahih international translation

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." - Yusuf Ali

30. And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. - Pickthall translation.

and many more - take your pick. Just remember that we are here - generation after generation acting as viceregents today?

I don't see any viceregents today though... even though that may have been intended - I see the bloodshed and I see the corruptions.

And I see the reason for the angels question, as well as the higher purpose of humanity on earth - which I may add, is failing rather badly in that dept.

Scimi
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OmAbdullah
10-31-2014, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." - sahih international translation

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." - Yusuf Ali

30. And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. - Pickthall translation.

and many more - take your pick. Just remember that we are here - generation after generation acting as viceregents today?

I don't see any viceregents today though... even though that may have been intended - I see the bloodshed and I see the corruptions.

And I see the reason for the angels question, as well as the higher purpose of humanity on earth - which I may add, is failing rather badly in that dept.

Scimi
As everyone can see the translation of khalifa is vicegerent or ruler or authority. Mankind is in general given the name of khalifa. That means that every person is khalifa in the sense that he/ she is given authority in a specific field and he/she is accordingly responsible and accountable. This authority differs in grades. Some may be given more power than others. Even a slave is responsible in his field of work. In any case the translation will be the same and no one has the right to change the meaning. No doubt, we are placed in this world generation after generation. Also this is true that today we mainly observe bloodshed. Allah said that Allah has created mankind in ahsani taqweem and then turned him to the lowest of the low. The example of the ahsani taqweem is the character of the Prophets alaihim salaam and mankind will remain on that high standard only when he/she follows the Prophet of their era. We will be at the ahsani taqweem if we follow the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. When mankind stops following the Prophet alaihi salaam, then he surely follows Satan and the result shall be bloodshed. When he/she stops following Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, he/she is turned asfala saafileen (the lowest of the low). This is because Allah has given great wisdom to mankind and he is khalifa. So they are capable of using that wisdom for destruction. Likewise, they are capable of using the treasures of the world for the same purpose. Today this is the state of affairs. An animal will fight with its teeth, claws etc. Neither it has the wisdom nor the power to make deadly weapons. At the most it will kill one or two other animals after hard struggle. But a man disobedient to Allah and Allah's Prophet creates such weapons which kills, burns, paralyzes thousands in a few minutes. So they become the lowest of the low, that is the worst of the creation, worse than animals! This is how Allah is testing mankind and Allah had made Hell and Paradise even before the creation of mankind. These two opposite extremes of actions of mankind are a proof that Allah is The Greatest Of Judges, and that the Day of Judgment is surely coming because Allah will not give equal end to all people, good and bad, by making them dust forever. Rather Allah shall give us a new life in the Hereafter to judge us and reward or punish according to our faith and deeds. Therefore we must be serious about our faith and deeds. In the matter of the Holy Quraan we must be very careful and should not change the meaning of khalifa to generation after generation. Such carefree behavior will make the doer cry in his grave and after grave.
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Muhaba
11-01-2014, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
As everyone can see the translation of khalifa is vicegerent or ruler or authority. Mankind is in general given the name of khalifa. That means that every person is khalifa in the sense that he/ she is given authority in a specific field and he/she is accordingly responsible and accountable. This authority differs in grades. Some may be given more power than others. Even a slave is responsible in his field of work. In any case the translation will be the same and no one has the right to change the meaning. No doubt, we are placed in this world generation after generation. Also this is true that today we mainly observe bloodshed. Allah said that Allah has created mankind in ahsani taqweem and then turned him to the lowest of the low. The example of the ahsani taqweem is the character of the Prophets alaihim salaam and mankind will remain on that high standard only when he/she follows the Prophet of their era. We will be at the ahsani taqweem if we follow the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. When mankind stops following the Prophet alaihi salaam, then he surely follows Satan and the result shall be bloodshed. When he/she stops following Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, he/she is turned asfala saafileen (the lowest of the low). This is because Allah has given great wisdom to mankind and he is khalifa. So they are capable of using that wisdom for destruction. Likewise, they are capable of using the treasures of the world for the same purpose. Today this is the state of affairs. An animal will fight with its teeth, claws etc. Neither it has the wisdom nor the power to make deadly weapons. At the most it will kill one or two other animals after hard struggle. But a man disobedient to Allah and Allah's Prophet creates such weapons which kills, burns, paralyzes thousands in a few minutes. So they become the lowest of the low, that is the worst of the creation, worse than animals! This is how Allah is testing mankind and Allah had made Hell and Paradise even before the creation of mankind. These two opposite extremes of actions of mankind are a proof that Allah is The Greatest Of Judges, and that the Day of Judgment is surely coming because Allah will not give equal end to all people, good and bad, by making them dust forever. Rather Allah shall give us a new life in the Hereafter to judge us and reward or punish according to our faith and deeds. Therefore we must be serious about our faith and deeds. In the matter of the Holy Quraan we must be very careful and should not change the meaning of khalifa to generation after generation. Such carefree behavior will make the doer cry in his grave and after grave.
Masha-Allah, excellent post. Couldn't have said it better.
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syed_z
11-02-2014, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Masuma
Quran Chapter 33 Verse 72
"Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant."

Now below it explains another reason why man did that to himself, i.e accept the responsibility. But I'm wondering about something else.
1. Since all the creations refused to take up the trust of being bestowed with this free will and, thus, to take the test of the life of this world, for they were scared of the consequences of failure with the only exception of man. So does this other "creation" have understanding and thinking too? The creation talked about here are the heavens and earth and mountains. How did rocks knew it and we humans didn't?!
Jazak Allah khayr for starting this thread.

In simple terms the 'Declining of the Heavens and the Earth' symbolizes their inability to be able to fulfill this Trust (Amaana) and carry it because the incapacity and incapability of their nature and mankind's 'Bearing it' symbolizes his potential to carry this Trust (Amaana) and his/her ability to fulfill the Trust.

Since their being 'Scared' as you put it, we would not understand it as literally rather we would again understand it as their nature not being fit to take this task but mankind's nature is. So its not as if mankind wasn't asked about it and just took it up without thinking and other creation was asked and refused.

Even though other creation does think and have feelings but not at the level of our, we have intellect and the capacity to advance and develop while they don't, but they do hear understand and have feelings.

There are several traditions that mention other creations have emotions and feelings.

The Prophet used to stand by a tree or a date-palm on Friday. Then an Ansari woman or man said. "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we make a pulpit for you?" He replied, "If you wish." So they made a pulpit for him and when it was Friday, he proceeded towards the pulpit (for delivering the sermon). The date-palm cried like a child! The Prophet descended (the pulpit) and embraced it while it continued moaning like a child being quietened. The Prophet said, "It was crying for (missing) what it used to hear of religious knowledge given near to it." (Bukhari)

It is for this reason why Allah (swt) has said in Surah Yasin Verse 67

And had it been our Will (that they should not be free to choose between right and wrong), We could surely have given them a different nature (and created them as beings rooted) in their places, so that they would not be able to move forward, and could not turn back.
(Muhammad Asad)

He (swt) could've rooted us like a tree and or given us a different nature which would make us incapable of making choices and to be able to make use of our free will which would then deprive us of the Blessing to advance and become even higher than Angels or if we did make a wrong choice unable to repent.



Originally Posted by Masuma
Man accepted the trust to gain the pleasures of the life hereafter and was so attracted to these pleasures that he completely ignored the consequences and the severity of the punishment in case of his failure. How can all of us, humans be so foolish? I mean there are intelligent people too amongst us. Of course someone choose it and made their decision right like Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), but what about the majority of us?
As what I have understood and expressed above regarding the Topic of Trust, I don't think mankind 'Accepted' in order to earn the pleasures of the hereafter, for if he really did come in to this world by choice, babies wouldn't be crying after being born and entering this world.
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