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ardianto
11-06-2014, 04:13 PM
:sl:

There is a video that shows someone in UK describe life in Islamic society as "everything is free". Everyone get free food, free clothing, free shelter, free electricity, free water. Have no house?. The house will be given. Want money?, just take.

Sound interesting?. I am more interested to ask this man why he has no job although he has wife and children?. Yes, yes, that's him. :hmm:

Is it true that in Islamic society everything is free for everybody?. No!. The men who still able to work must work to fulfill their needs, their families needs, and to help the needy. They should not lazy and only expect caliph to give everything they need. Caliph is still human who has limit of ability.

But I am not surprised if he describe the Islamic society like this. I've ever found some people who promote Islamic society as society which there's no poverty, there's no evil, people are always happy because caliph gives everything to the people. Sound like in heaven?. Indeed. Especially because they didn't say anything about work!.

Frankly, it makes me ashamed to non-Muslims in secular societies which they are rational and realistic. They realize that if they want to get something they must do an attempt. They encourage people to work to build the nation if they want to have a great nation.

While the Muslims who I mention above?. They just promote a dream that encourage people being lazy.

No, no, Muslims should not be lazy. If we are in productive age, if we are still able to work, we must work. We should not be lazy because there's no place for lazy Muslims in Islam.
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ahsankhan
11-07-2014, 05:57 PM
Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) also do business/trade.

In order to make a society where everything is free (for Poor) is to do hard work, rich can give more to poor and such.

that's really do not mean that a poor person just sit all day and wait for someone to give him something, if Allah give us health and ability to do work, one should do hard work to achieve everything.

I married man has a responsibility to do hard work and provide for his family.

shukran
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Snow
11-07-2014, 09:12 PM
Was it Anjem Choudary? He says some odd things at times. But I think the general idea is that the basic needs of everybody should be met.
Nobody should be without the basic needs; food, water, shelter, clothing...

As there is more than enough wealth for everybody to enjoy the basics needs for survival, the top few % are sucking it to themselves and leaving the majority poor.



But I agree. Everybody should be working towards something. Use their abilities to help others and themselves. The money/resources... are just on too few hands, as it is.
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MuslimInshallah
11-08-2014, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:sl:

There is a video that shows someone in UK describe life in Islamic society as "everything is free". Everyone get free food, free clothing, free shelter, free electricity, free water. Have no house?. The house will be given. Want money?, just take.

Sound interesting?. I am more interested to ask this man why he has no job although he has wife and children?. Yes, yes, that's him. :hmm:

Is it true that in Islamic society everything is free for everybody?. No!. The men who still able to work must work to fulfill their needs, their families needs, and to help the needy. They should not lazy and only expect caliph to give everything they need. Caliph is still human who has limit of ability.

But I am not surprised if he describe the Islamic society like this. I've ever found some people who promote Islamic society as society which there's no poverty, there's no evil, people are always happy because caliph gives everything to the people. Sound like in heaven?. Indeed. Especially because they didn't say anything about work!.

Frankly, it makes me ashamed to non-Muslims in secular societies which they are rational and realistic. They realize that if they want to get something they must do an attempt. They encourage people to work to build the nation if they want to have a great nation.

While the Muslims who I mention above?. They just promote a dream that encourage people being lazy.

No, no, Muslims should not be lazy. If we are in productive age, if we are still able to work, we must work. We should not be lazy because there's no place for lazy Muslims in Islam.
Assalaamu alaikum Ardianto,

Would you mind posting the link for the video? It sounds rather surprising. I have not heard similar things around where I live in Canada, though I do know that there are those who try to cheat the welfare system.

Jazakallah khairan!
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greenhill
11-08-2014, 12:35 PM
When I read, hear or in anyway informed about things along this line, too many people, I find, are too lazy to expand their understanding.

I mean, we will be asked about everything : what did we use our eye sight for? Our hearing? Our health? What we did with our hands, our mouth, where did we frequent with our legs, about the wealth we were given, the opportunities, our choice of words, ... Yaa Allah, please wake them and also remind us all to always appreciate Your blessings that You have bestowed upon us, whether we know it or not and that we use it in a manner that pleases You. Amiin
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ardianto
11-09-2014, 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by Snow
Was it Anjem Choudary?
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Ardianto,

Would you mind posting the link for the video?
Wa alaikumsalam

Yes, Anjem Choudary. However, due to controversial issues which appear in mostly part of the video, I can't post that video in forum. But I can write here what Choudary said there.

"In Islamic state now everybody has free food, clothing and shelter. ....... Close your eyes and imagine a society in which everybody has free food, clothing and shelter. ....... You haven't got a house?. Here is your house. ..... You don't have to go to live in a cardboard box outside the council for few weeks before they give you a house. ....... You don't have electricity?. Here is free electricity. Here is free water. ........ What else do you want?. Do you want a salary?. Here, take some money. ...... There is no society like that".

Indeed, the video uploaded by MEMRI and being cut that maybe hide important part. But I often observe Anjem Choudary and from what I know his view on working, and on Islamic society is not so different than what he said in the video. Maybe what he meant was, society like that will never exist. But with his reputation as unemployed who enjoy unemployment benefits from British government without attempt to seek a job?.

And like I've said, Choudary is not the first person who I found talk about Islamic society like that. I’ve found few other people who promote Khilafah as society which Caliph provide everything, give everything, solve all problems. A society that really far from reality but become a dream for lazy people.

Wrong mentality. This is the cause why Muslims nowadays are far behind non-Muslims.
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ardianto
11-09-2014, 02:10 AM
There was a time when Muslims were wealthy, were superior in technologies. This golden age has passed long time ago, and now Muslim are far behind non-Muslims.

I understand if Muslim want to have their golden age again. I have the same dream too. But should Muslims try to get their golden age through violence?. Through war?. This is what I totally disagree. Islam is not the religion of violence.

It's better if we do our jihad in the right way, in the peaceful way. Learn and work, this is the jihad that we should do. In Shaa Allah, then in the future we will have again a wealthy society with high technologies like we have ever had in the golden age.
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drkashifj
11-09-2014, 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
There was a time when Muslims were wealthy, were superior in technologies. This golden age has passed long time ago, and now Muslim are far behind non-Muslims.

I understand if Muslim want to have their golden age again. I have the same dream too. But should Muslims try to get their golden age through violence?. Through war?. This is what I totally disagree. Islam is not the religion of violence.

It's better if we do our jihad in the right way, in the peaceful way. Learn and work, this is the jihad that we should do. In Shaa Allah, then in the future we will have again a wealthy society with high technologies like we have ever had in the golden age.
I guess this forum is not for me either.not one Islamic forum whicha ddresses the real issues.


you got it totally wrong.its not lack of wealth or technology that keeps muslims back.its lack of iman and nifaq in heart.muslims have all the money in world at present,they have higher education.but they are humiliated.but muslims in prophet ( s a w) era had no material things but they ruled the world.even at resent era the poor Taliban defeated americans while Pakistan etc like muslim powers are slaves to American empire.

its not the lack of wealth or education that caused downfall of muslims.its the lack of iman and nifaq in heart.
we befriend kufars despite quran asking us not to.we do everything against quran and sunnah.
and you are wrong.jihad is not violence.jihad brings peace.
let me give example of Afghanistan even if you ppl ban me here.
before Taliban Afghanistan was in hands of corrupt tribal elders who kidnapped any woman they liked and killed people for fun.they grew heroine and other drugs.taliban did jihad against them enforced sharia and after Taliban rule there was so much peace that a woman would take gold in her hand in busy bazar and no one would even look at her.taliban ended drug trade also.

but what we "muslims" do.we side with kufar and rafawid against our muslim brothers fighting a defensive jihad.
tell me is there a single place in world where jihad is offensive?everywhere the kufar or rafawid attacked and killed muslims first.and if defensive jihad was not launched than muslims had been erased by now

from Palestine to Indonesia,from chechenya to Libya and from phillipine to Nigeria and Somalia and from Iraq to sham everywhere the jihad is defensive.
but if you don't even give muslims the right to defend themselves than ban me.you are welcome.lol
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truthseeker63
11-09-2014, 01:25 PM
WS you can Email Brother Anjem Choudary he can clarify ?

http://www.anjemchoudary.co.uk/contact.html
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greenhill
11-09-2014, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by drkashifj
I guess this forum is not for me either.not one Islamic forum whicha ddresses the real issues.
That is a bit condescending. With just 7 posts you broadly sweep the whole community here as ...?? Not very nice.

Have you read the posts dating back to how many years? Many issues were discussed. Points of views brought forward, or errors in judgements pointed out. This is a forum. We engage to learn and if we have any thing to add, we add. If we disagree, we state our disagreement.

But we do not need remarks on a thread, with so few participants in it to be a good representative sample of the forum users, that is a sweeping statement to all people here.

Stay or not, that is your choice, but I like your honesty in saying what you feel. Remember also that we know what you are saying, it is the truth, so as we speak about the real issues, what changes? The corrupt maintains their rule. The rich/poor gap widens, islam becomes the fastest growing religion in the world, but the knowledge has become shallow, the 'spirit' has become weaker.

So let's talk about the real issues. Perhaps you may start a thread.


Peace :shade:
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ardianto
11-09-2014, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by drkashifj
I guess this forum is not for me either.not one Islamic forum whicha ddresses the real issues.


you got it totally wrong.its not lack of wealth or technology that keeps muslims back.its lack of iman and nifaq in heart.muslims have all the money in world at present,they have higher education.but they are humiliated.but muslims in prophet ( s a w) era had no material things but they ruled the world.even at resent era the poor Taliban defeated americans while Pakistan etc like muslim powers are slaves to American empire.

its not the lack of wealth or education that caused downfall of muslims.its the lack of iman and nifaq in heart.
we befriend kufars despite quran asking us not to.we do everything against quran and sunnah.
and you are wrong.jihad is not violence.jihad brings peace.
let me give example of Afghanistan even if you ppl ban me here.
before Taliban Afghanistan was in hands of corrupt tribal elders who kidnapped any woman they liked and killed people for fun.they grew heroine and other drugs.taliban did jihad against them enforced sharia and after Taliban rule there was so much peace that a woman would take gold in her hand in busy bazar and no one would even look at her.taliban ended drug trade also.

but what we "muslims" do.we side with kufar and rafawid against our muslim brothers fighting a defensive jihad.
tell me is there a single place in world where jihad is offensive?everywhere the kufar or rafawid attacked and killed muslims first.and if defensive jihad was not launched than muslims had been erased by now

from Palestine to Indonesia,from chechenya to Libya and from phillipine to Nigeria and Somalia and from Iraq to sham everywhere the jihad is defensive.
but if you don't even give muslims the right to defend themselves than ban me.you are welcome.lol
Assalamualaikum.

I wasn't talking about defend ourselves from aggressor, but I was talking about few Muslims who convince the other that Muslims are ordered to launch a war to take over the world. It gives negative image for Mujahiddin who fight for the right reason.

Do Muslims have all money and are highly educated. Hmm ...., I don't see it in among majority of Muslims. That's why me and other brothers and sisters are doing effort to eliminate poverty and ignorance. Yes, poverty and lack of education can lead Muslims fall into shirk and even apostate. I've seen it by own eyes. So the brother from anti-apostasy team were not wrong when they told me about it.

Brother, maybe you are interested go with me, down to the field to see the reality of Muslim people?. So you could see many things you would never know if you were just sitting in front of computer. We could also do silaturahim with my uncle and few of my friends. They are Islamic teachers who active in da'wah. In Shaa Allah, it could raise your knowledge about Islam.

:)
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ardianto
11-09-2014, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
WS you can Email Brother Anjem Choudary he can clarify ?

http://www.anjemchoudary.co.uk/contact.html
I'll consider it.

But I already know about his view. I often observe him.
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ardianto
11-09-2014, 03:56 PM
Few days ago I bought food from a street vendor. He was talking with parking attendant when I came, and they were still talking when I sat near them. So I could hear what they were talking about. They talked about improving their life. But the way which they were talking was the shirk way.

Like I've said, poverty can lead to shirk and even apostasy. This is a reality that I see among Muslims. Maybe you can say "Ah, it's just because they have weak Iman!". But if you can say like this, it's because you don't have life like their life. Or you never down to the field and see the reality of Muslim world.

Yes, not every Muslim knows that poverty and lack of education can make Muslims lose their Iman. That's why we need to work hard to eliminate poverty and help poor people to get better education.

That food vendor and parking attendant are not lazy people. But they have wrong mindset. They believe that they will never get a better life if they just do effort in normal way like working. So they wanted to seek help from something that could give them miracle.

Change wrong mindset and wrong mentality is the challenge that we must face in our effort to eliminate poverty and ignorance among Muslims. We cannot just show them ayaah and hadith. We must do more than this.
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BeTheChange
11-09-2014, 06:02 PM
I wouldn't feel good if i was given something for free. I prefer working for everything that i own/want or need. When you get something for free you don't appreciate the hard effort it takes to purchase that good you need. It does create bad habits and promotes laziness if you get something for free.
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Ali Mujahidin
11-10-2014, 03:19 AM
No, I don't see how a person can be lazy and be a Muslim at the same time. That would almost be like saying a person does not pray at all and still claims to be a Muslim. That cannot be true.

As for people who live on the charity of other people, I am reminded of a hadith where the Holy Prophet, on seeing a beggar, said,

"If only he knows what awaits him in akhirat, he will stop begging immediately."

However there is nothing in that hadith about what awaits the beggar in akhirat, so I can only guess it must be something terrible for him to immediately stop begging, if he were to know what is awaiting him in akhirat.
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MarlaJohnson
11-10-2014, 06:36 AM
But its good to do work for family.. Its responsibility
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