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ardianto
01-12-2015, 04:36 PM
When I was in school I have learned about secularism which is defined as the separation of public space from religion. In this definition religion is a private matter of each person, and the rules of religion can not be imposed to the public.

Sometime I have discussion with advocates of secularism, and from what I gather, the reason they support secularism is because in the secular society, everyone gets the freedom to profess and undergo any belief without pressure and intimidation from the others.

But now I got the impression that there are some people who interpret secularism as an anti-religious attitude which religion is not respected in the secular society. Frankly, this is contrary to the meaning of secularism that I knew previously.

My question, is secularism means anti-religious ideology, or the ideology which respect everyone's belief as long as not forced to the public?
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saifdeen
01-12-2015, 05:18 PM
I am sure if you needed a definition of it you could have googled it. But yes people interpret it both ways depending on what they want the word to mean.

Question: can one not argue that under a proper Islamic Shariah, non-Muslims live under secular laws anyway? So that is an example of a secular and non-secular cohesion.
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Hulk
01-12-2015, 05:52 PM
Philosophically, secularism is the idea that God is inconsequential to daily life. This is when you can lose respect for things that are sacred. Religion can be mocked. Certain types of music/tv shows/films show up that go against what religion teaches. Etc.. In this sense, muslims should be against secularism.

But does this mean that we have to be against a "secular government"? Not necessarily. It is not impossible to fulfil our fard ain without a caliphate and if a particular kind of governance allows for us to fulfil our fard ain then we do not necessarily have to be against it. You can read up on some of Prof. Syed Naquib Al Attas's writings on the subject if you'd like.
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ardianto
01-12-2015, 05:59 PM
Mostly of those advocates of secularism are Muslims. And their reason to support secular state is because they worry, if a state governed by one religion, then citizens from other religions would be persecuted under the state religious law. In their concept of secular society, state must respect the people personal belief.

However, then I found another view from non-religious people that seem like describe that secular society is based on Atheism. In their concept seem like religion is something that must be rejected.

I notice, this is the difference between secularism according to religious and non-religious people.
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ardianto
01-12-2015, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Hulk
Philosophically, secularism is the idea that God is inconsequential to daily life.
Then what is the difference between secularism and atheism in this matter?.

"secular government"?
There are people who say that my country, Indonesia, is secular state because it's not based on a religious law. But other people say, Indonesia is actually a religious state because although does not implement a particular religious law, Indonesia people are obligated to embrace a religion according their own choice.

Frankly, I begin to confused about definition of religious state.
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naba
01-12-2015, 07:48 PM
Assalamalecum,well we should follow our religion let others follow theirs but at the same time we must continue spread message of Allah.eg I live in india, so I neither respect their religion nor abuse them because Allah forbids abusing other religions in ch 6 v 108 of Quran.
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Hulk
01-12-2015, 08:16 PM
Sorry Br Ardianto there was an issue and my response didn't get through. It's kind of late so I'll try to say what I remember quickly.

Atheism is the belief that there is no God while Secularism is the idea that God is inconsequential to daily life. With this in mind, we can say that an atheist would naturally incline to secularism since he believes that there is no God. However, it is possible for someone to believe in God and yet still subscribe to secularism. Deists for example believe in the existence of God but believes that He has nothing to do with creation, similar to how a watchmaker might make a watch that can run on it's own and just leaves it. This is not what we as muslims subscribe to as we believe that nothing can happen/exist unless by the will of God.

Here is an excerpt from one of Prof Syed Naquib Al Attas's book which might be related to what you are talking about..

"A Muslim state calling itself secular does not necessarily have to oppose religious truth and religious education; does not necessarily have to divest nature of spiritual meaning; does not necessarily have to deny religious values and virtues in politics and human affairs. But the philosophical and scientific process which I call 'secularisation' necessarily involves the divesting of spiritual meaning from the world of nature; the desacralization of politics from human affairs; and the consecration of values from the human mind and conduct."

So there is a difference between a "secular" government state and secularism as a philosophical program/secularization.

Allahu a'lam
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truthseeker63
01-12-2015, 11:18 PM
WS in my opinion Secularism can be either Anti Religion or Freedom of all Religions Communism was Anti Religion even if Communist Nations claimed to have Freedom of Religion in my opinion France should be able to be a Secular State without banning the Niqab and Hijab I believe when it comes to Politics even in Secular States People try to mix Religion with Political Views even Non Muslims do I spoke I know Muslim Nations have had Secular Governments like in North Africa but I don't get why they ban Niqab if they are really Secular they should allow Freedom of Religion to wear beards pray 5 times a day wear Niqab if they choose and not be anti religion like the Marxists are just my personal opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
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BlueOwl358
01-13-2015, 11:20 AM
Secularism is the removal of religious policies and laws of government and the country. Now Secularists state that religion is a personal matter that has no relation to the state or government with religions having no laws or laws that can be manipulated in a negative manner. However, this does not apply to Islam, which clearly has a political identity and laws and implications. The Protection of Tax Paying Non Muslims is a part of this political identity which can't be manipulated any more than any constitution in the world. So the statements of secularists do not apply to Islam and any Muslims that support Secularism has gone against their religion. Islam condemns judging anyone by any law other than God's law God calls those who do not use His law, defiantly disobedient.

Read verses 44-50 of Surah 5 in English. That should help.
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G8R
01-13-2015, 09:49 PM
I would say, and do support, that secularism is just the separation of the state and religion and that the state should not impose or support any religion. From BlueOwl's post I'd say there seems to be a conflict (I haven't read the verses yet but will). Though I was a little confused by saifdeen's post, though that's probably another thread.
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G8R
01-13-2015, 09:51 PM
Thinking a little more, I think any system can be manipulated either by religious or anti-religious communities within the secular society. I'd say the anti-religious tag would be a adjective of the individual secular society.
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