Jesus never said "Father"

[OmAbdullah]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.

[M.I.A.]

When I'm being respectful to somebody in my own language. I use a certain word that is a respectful version of yes.

...it is also a shortened version of father.

Its up to people to make of it what they will although it would not have any relevance in particular unless you had to constantly hear it.

[The-Deist]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Transliteration please :D
JazakaAllahu khair

[OmAbdullah]

Transliteration please :D
JazakaAllahu khair

Bismillahi- r- Rahmaani-r-Raheem.

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[OmAbdullah]

When I'm being respectful to somebody in my own language. I use a certain word that is a respectful version of yes.

...it is also a shortened version of father.

Its up to people to make of it what they will although it would not have any relevance in particular unless you had to constantly hear it.

This is a very vague statement. What do you mean to say? Say it clearly so that we may know clearly about your FAITH. Then it will be possible to discuss the subject.

[OmAbdullah]

Is there any Christian to argue with a sound proof? Until now there has been none and there can be none. So then come to the absolute truth of the religion that God is absolutely One, Single and Unique. There is none like un to HIM. God has no son, no father, no relative and no helper and being the Eternal Absolute doesn't need any helper or relative. These are the weaknesses of human beings that they need relatives and helpers. God is The Creator of all, is High above any weaknesses.


When you understand the truth and surely you do, then why are you getting late in accepting the truth. You shouldn't be late because the time of death is not known. It may overtake you any time. If you go from this world with the unbelief in the absolute Oneness of God, unbelief in Hereafter,in Accounting, in Hell for unbelievers and in paradise for the believers then remember that the angels will take your soul in very painful condition. The poor soul tries to hide in the body and doesn't want to be taken out while the angels will beat you with spread arms and will pull out the soul forcefully. Have you ever seen a disobedient dying person. His time of death is very long and he/she is in agonizing pain!!!


Please be merciful to yourself. The punishment will start at the time of death and then it will never end. Regretting will be of no use. This life is the only chance to choose the right path. Remember, all Prophets were human beings. Adam alaihi salaam was the first of the Prophets and Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was the last of the Prophets. We all mankind are ordered to believe in all of them and to follow their correct teachings. For the same purpose Allah has preserved the Final Book i.e. Quraan from any change. So that any man/woman may not have a chance to complain to Allah that he/she didn't have a correct source of guidance.


At least you must read and understand the Holy Quraan with open mind. Lest you will bite your own hands for rejecting the truth.

[OmAbdullah]

The Christians believe in all of the Messengers and Prophets of God except the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. As a matter of fact, all of the prophets since Adam alaihi salaam have given the same one Message to mankind. The Message is that God is The Creator of all, God is The Supreme Being and the Unique Being. God is the Giver of death and life. God is the Lord and there is none like un to God. The Christians must be knowing from their Bible and Talmud that this faith is a very sensitive matter because God shall not forgive the sin of associating someone with God.

The Christians must revise the message of the Prophet Muses (Musa alaihi salaam) and that of Ibraeem (Ibraham ) alaihi salaam. Pharaoh became the enemy of Musa alaihi salaam and Namrood became the enemy of Ibraheem alaihi salaam only because of this Message of the Oneness of God. The Prophet Eisa alaihi salaam (Jesus) also conveyed the same Message of the absolute Oneness of God and that no one has the right to associate any partner with Allah, the Almighty God. God has no father, no son, no relative and being the Owner of all Power, God does not need such relations. Almighty God is High Above any weakness. These are human beings who need relatives due to their weak nature.

The Prophet Jesus said: "Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord so worship HIM."
Then what happened that some men like Paul added Polytheism to the Pure Faith conveyed by all of the Prophets alaihim us salaam and blamed his false statements on the innocent Prophet Jesus ( Eisa alaihi salaam)???

O Christian fellows, think sincerely, you surely believe in the Prophets from Adam to Musa (Muses ) alaihim-us-salaam, observe and think, do you find any where that God had the intention to make a son??? No! No! You cannot find such polytheistic message with any Prophet. Then how can you believe that Jesus, a human being, the son of a human being (Maryam ) became the son of the Supreme God and Lord, the One, the Unique. Surely your wisdom will guide you to the Truth, but you shouldn't fight with your wisdom otherwise you shall make yourself a dweller of the Ever-Lasting Fire!!!!

The Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam has also conveyed the same message as was conveyed by all of the other Prophets, therefore you shouldn't become his (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) enemies otherwise you shall make yourself dwellers of the Ever-Lasting Fire.

[Nakai]

This is the second thread I've visited on this board and, like the first thread, it seems to just be "X didn't happen because it contradicts my beliefs" without any supporting evidence

[Lavitz]

The problem revolves around each religion's attachment to its sources. As a Muslim, I can only accept that he never said Father. As a Christian, you are bound to hold those beliefs.

I always ask: Why accept the four gospels as reliable in the first place?

[OmAbdullah]

This is the second thread I've visited on this board and, like the first thread, it seems to just be "X didn't happen because it contradicts my beliefs" without any supporting evidence

Peace,

I have a lot of supporting evidence from the Holy Quraan, a Divine Book which is "Muhaimin" on the past Divine Books. Muhaimin means the one that preserves all Truth which was truly sent down to the previous Prophets (peace be upon them) from the Only One God Allah. That Truth was then present in the Divine Books, but now people changed those Books. I will bring to you evidence from the Holy Quraan, but you will reject it because you are blindly following the wrong corrupted books. In fact I will like you to wake up, use your own wisdom to choose a source of guidance which is TRUE. That is not difficult. The only thing you have to do is to become sincere and read the Books with open mind.

Why don't you read the Holy Quraan??? Is it because you fear that you may become against Christianity? If that is the case then it surely means that you are standing on very weak legs. Lie has no legs to stand upon. You are standing on a weak base composed of lie. Come to the Truth. Does your wisdom accept that the Almighty God, The Creator of all and every thing is a human being? None of the Pharaohs ever claimed that he was the creator of the heavens and the earth because they knew that no body will believe in such a claim. But Satan's friends made Jesus (a human being ) the creator of the heavens and the earth!!! Very strange!!!

Then ask your conscience and wisdom in solitude, Is it possible that the Almighty God wanted to forgive the killers, massacre-makers and all type of criminals and that God couldn't do it directly, so God made a human son for that unjust purpose and then made the human son get sacrificed on the cross?????

What a series of senseless conjectures!!! Every one of these conjectures is unbelievable to a sound mind. Satan is our open enemy. Why are so many human beings, with great wisdom, falling prey to this enemy? He (Satan) has challenged that he would prove to God that these human beings are not deserving the high position where God ordered the angels to prostrate to him( Human kind). So Satan is jealous and is trying to lead you into Hell. And you are following him blindly.

Please be sincere to yourself and protect yourself from the Ever Lasting Hell. Take your Bible and also take the Holy Quraan and read and understand the two side by side. Your wisdom will insha Allah claim that Quraan is the self witness Book that it is Divine and it is presenting all the Truth. Read the chapter Maryam in the Holy Quraan. There is the statement of Jesus in the lap of his mother. He, just after his birth said the following:

[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) said these words as a new born baby. This was the miracle of Jesus. Does your Bible tells you about this miracle of Jesus? But The Quraan told us about Jesus' miracles because the Quraan is The MUHAIMIN.

After this Allah said in the same chapter Maryam:

That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

Please note that the real name of Mary was Maryam and that of Jesus was Eisa. Also the name of angel Gabriel is Jibreel. But your people changed even the names. I had read the chapter Maryam to a nun from a church. she was surprised to hear this unique statement and asked me that from where did I get it? I told her that it is the Book sent down to the final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. She accepted the fact that Jesus' real name was Eisa and that of Mary was Maryam.

[OmAbdullah]

Allah sent all the Prophets and Messengers عليهم السلام to teach mankind that Allah Almighty God is high above such weak qualities and so Almighty God Allah is absolutely one Single and Unique. This is not the status of a Prophet to say that he was god or that he was the son of God. Even for a common man it is not allowed to believe in such a nonsense and wrong idea which has surely come from Satan. Surely Satan is our manifest enemy. To know the horrible nature of such words, Allah has said in the Holy Quraan:

88. And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

92. And it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should take a son (or offspring or children).

93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.

94. Certainly He has a comprehensive knowledge of them and He has numbered them a (comprehensive) numbering.

95. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).

Translation of the verses from surah Maryam (Mary).

[OmAbdullah]

Allah Almighty said in surah Al Nisaa verse 171:

171. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

[OmAbdullah]

Allah, The Only One God, said in surah Al-Kahf, verses 4 and 5:

4. And to warn those who say, " Allah has taken a son."
5. They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie.

Please take it very seriously, Try to discard this wrong faith which is going to make the Christians, dwellers of the Hell- Fire for ever. Believe in only One God Who is The Supreme and Unique Being, Allah. Allah, Almighty God has no son, no daughter, no wife and no relative.

[Peacetoall]

the only thing that makes me stay far away from religion is that each person has their own journey, but i look at historical facts instead, those who are do not believe any of it, but bring forth logical data that has no bias of belief. all i know is historically according to archaeologists and those that study men of the past is that the Judaism/Christian beliefs have their start around 0-100 AD and Islam has its start about 620 AD. From the start of those religions All Believers have been hurt by outside influences or each other. Romans Killed Christians, Christians Killed Muslims, Muslims Kill Christians and Jews, Its all been ether one crusade or a Jihad. I'm not trying to insult anyone just putting forth facts. So then all of these belief systems ask people to believe that they hold the truth. But what i want, more than anything is to see people showing Love. isn't that what Jesus Taught? so you see, in my opinion, i tend to stay away from organized religion because people say they are right, but instead of following the example of the most loving being(so that i do not insult anyone's faith)that ever walked this earth.
Now once someone can show me a religion without Hate, Fear, War , Killing, then i might listen completely. don't get me wrong, i have come here to learn about your beliefs, so that i can be more Tolerant and avoid listening to all the horrible things people do in the name of God. but I think no matter who Jesus was or wasn't in the end we should learn from those that showed us to be a Peaceful, Humble, Loving individual. I'm not saying i'm perfect. But i detest Violence and Hatred. Peace to you all.

[abuhafsa786]

Thats correct, the religion of the cristians has changed so much that it is not even that anymore

[Peacetoall]

But didn't Mohammad say to kill is like killing the entire human race, but to save a life is to save the entire human race. I believe Mohammad has set a precedence here, he is basically telling his followers to kill or assult a non-believer is going to make them see hate, this rejecting any wisdom in the Quraan. Approaching someone with kindness and giving them time to read it would be far more reaching in the end.

[Sana Ijaz]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.

when ever u want to convince someone of something provide evidence ,,,i agree what Nakai has said,,,even i have read many threads in which there are literally essays written to prove that people who dont follow islam are going to hell (i dont know why muslims are tend to b so angry)u know what even we can say all that stuff to u but we dont :statisfie

focus on references thats the key point if u wanna convince someone,,,

Can i ask u something,,what is HOLY SPIRIT(Roh-ul_qudus) in quran?there are verses where angels,spirit,and gabrial is used separately in different verses in quarn?so how can u say that holy spirit is actually gabrial nd not a spirit of God? what does HIS spirit ,Our spirit,My spirit means in Quran?nd why it is wrong to assume that it means spirit Of God?

the main diff between islam and christianity is due to this very point ,,,can u state the quranic verses with arabic translation please and tell how to prove this concept according to quran?

[Scimitar]

can i ask u something,,

You can ask me :)

what is holy spirit(roh-ul_qudus) in quran?there are verses where angels,spirit,and gabrial is used separately in different verses in quarn?so how can u say that holy spirit is actually gabrial nd not a spirit of god? What does his spirit ,our spirit,my spirit means in quran?nd why it is wrong to assume that it means spirit of god?

The main diff between islam and christianity is due to this very point ,,,can u state the quranic verses with arabic translation please and tell how to prove this concept according to quran?

Here, I have quoted the Ruh Al Quddus ayaat from the Quran.

And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed. - Surah al Baqarah ayah 87

"Of those messengers, some of them We have caused to excel others, and there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He has exalted in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit." Surah al Baqarah ayah 253

Jesus pbuh was supported by the Ruh al Quddus - according to the above.

"(The day) when God saith: 'O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity." - Surah al Maida ayah 110

The ayah above tells us that both, Jesus pbuh and his mother - Mary pbuh, were both supported by the Ruh al Quddus.

"Say: the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as guidance and glad tidings to Muslims." - Surah an Nahl ayah 102

...Soooo, it turns out that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was also supported by the Ruh al Quddus.

If the Holy Spirit (Ruh al Quddus) is brings revelation, to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, and we are told in multiple chained super reliable ahadeeth that Gabriel (Jibreel AS) the Arch Angel was the one who delivered the revelations - then it clearly stands to reason, logic and common sense that Gabriel the Arch Angel, is the Ruh al Quddus - the Holy Spirit. Thus, may an Islamic scholar has deduced the same, and gone into way more detail than I have done so here.

Here above, is the evidence you wanted, with quotes from scripture.

I ask you, what is the Ruh al Quddus according to you? Is it any different to Islamic understanding? or have you come to your own unique way of understanding it - if so, please explain the contextualization with references, thank you.

Scimi

[Sana Ijaz]

1:بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ

Used in 3 verses which u have mentioned with Jesus

And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

He sends down the angels,(Yunazzilu almala-ikata) with the inspiration of His command,(bialrroohi min amrihi) upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."


Used for Wahi or inspiration of His command,,,

2)17:85 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."



According to is this verse u can’t even know what a spirit is ,then how can u say that Roh-al qadoos is Gabriel ,,,when u are not even given the knowledge of it ?

3)"الۡمَلِکِ الۡقُدُّوۡسِ"

it has been used two times with Allah in Quran:

59:23
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

62:1: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Don’t u think it will be wrong to use it with an angel if if it is used for Allah?

4) 19:19 He said, "I am only the messenger (Rasool) of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

However Rasool and Angels are different in the following ayat and are not the same thing

2:98)Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers (Apostles) and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to
the disbelievers.

Messengers (Rasool) is written separately from Angels does it mean that in ayat 19:19 messenger of lord is not an angel?


U asked me what is my understanding about it,,,
From what i have come to know while studying Quran Roh-al-qadoos is not Gabriel,,if it is Gabriel then why it is not clearly mentioned?
There is no confusion in christianity they clearly say that it is the spirit of God Himself(a part of God),,that's why they say Son Of God,,,then why there is confusion in Islam.
Why do the ayats have above mentioned contradict each other?
I am not defending Christianity as I am notChristian but i am confused about it that how did the translators came to the conclusion that it in in fact Gabriel or they just assumed it,,,many translators actually replace this word with Gabriel in their translations (which in my opinion a person should not replace the actual arabic translation with their own understanding,,,because people usually dont focus on arabic and it creates misunderstanding)
I do believe in Oneness of God ,I don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God but if Quran says that It was His spirit(God’s own spirit) and He hasn't mentioned this thing about other Prophets then why cant we believe that it was a part of God?And it is not necessary to believe that if it was God's own spirit then it makes Jesus the SOn of God,,,,,
So why cant we believe both-Oneness of God and also that it was God's Own Spirit

[Insaanah]

Sana Ijaz, what is your religion? It might help us to explain things better if we know where you're coming from.

And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

He sends down the angels,(Yunazzilu almala-ikata) with the inspiration of His command,(bialrroohi min amrihi) upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."

Used for Wahi or inspiration of His command,,,

Your post shows a lack of understanding of how languages work.

In many languages, one word can have more than one meaning. Let's take the English word foil. You can wrap your sandwiches in foil, or you can foil a plot. Refers to two different things. But people who know English, know the two contexts of the word. If someone who is not familiar with English then comes along and says, "how can you say this sentence makes sense?", this is obviously from lack of knowledge.

2)17:85 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."

According to is this verse u can’t even know what a spirit is ,then how can u say that Roh-al qadoos is Gabriel ,,,when u are not even given the knowledge of it ?

It doesn't say you haven't been given knowledge. If you read the translation that you yourself have quoted, it says "except a little". The knowledge we have on any matter, is tiny as compared to the vast knowledge of Allah. Yet what we have been given, is enough for us.

"And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea [was ink], replenished thereafter by seven [more] seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." (31:27)

"Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement."" (18:109)

"[...]We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of knowledge is one [more] knowing. " (12:76, part)

3)"الۡمَلِکِ الۡقُدُّوۡسِ"

it has been used two times with Allah in Quran:We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of knowledge is one [more] knowing.

59:23
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

62:1: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Don’t u think it will be wrong to use it with an angel if if it is used for Allah?

Can you read Arabic? Qudus, is a different word, in pronunciation and meaning, from Al-Quddoos. Allah is the only One who is Al-Quddoos.

U asked me what is my understanding about it,,,
From what i have come to know while studying Quran Roh-al-qadoos is not Gabriel,,if it is Gabriel then why it is not clearly mentioned?
There is no confusion in christianity they clearly say that it is the spirit of God Himself(a part of God),,that's why they say Son Of God,,,then why there is confusion in Islam.
Why do the ayats have above mentioned contradict each other?
I am not defending Christianity as I am notChristian but i am confused about it that how did the translators came to the conclusion that it in in fact Gabriel or they just assumed it,,,many translators actually replace this word with Gabriel in their translations (which in my opinion a person should not replace the actual arabic translation with their own understanding,,,because people usually dont focus on arabic and it creates misunderstanding)
I do believe in Oneness of God ,I don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God but if Quran says that It was His spirit(God’s own spirit) and He hasn't mentioned this thing about other Prophets then why cant we believe that it was a part of God?And it is not necessary to believe that if it was God's own spirit then it makes Jesus the SOn of God,,,,,
So why cant we believe both-Oneness of God and also that it was God's Own Spirit

You said you have studied. In Islam we have etiquettes of studying, which include not making up our own explanations, and referring to people of knowledge. The confusion, which has existed since the early days in Christianity, is what to do with the holy spirit, what it was. They couldn't decide, then nearly 400 years after Isa alayhissalaam (Jesus, peace be on him), one group discarded all other views and said the holy spirit was the part of God that lived in human bodies. This, up to that point, had nowhere been clearly stated, not even in scripture. Islam is clear, and has no such confusion. As to translations, most put explanatory words in additions in brackets, and don't replace words. Your logic above is faulty, as explained by the lack of knowledge of Arabic. It is "a spirit from Him" or a spirit belonging to Him. Therefore we cannot and do not say it was God's own spirit, or somehow part of God. God is separate from His creation, not mixed up in it in any way. And it is this purity and clearness and simplicity of the concept of God, which is among the many things that attract people to Islam.

[OmAbdullah]

the only thing that makes me stay far away from religion is that each person has their own journey, but i look at historical facts instead, those who are do not believe any of it, but bring forth logical data that has no bias of belief. all i know is historically according to archaeologists and those that study men of the past is that the Judaism/Christian beliefs have their start around 0-100 AD and Islam has its start about 620 AD. From the start of those religions All Believers have been hurt by outside influences or each other. Romans Killed Christians, Christians Killed Muslims, Muslims Kill Christians and Jews, Its all been ether one crusade or a Jihad. I'm not trying to insult anyone just putting forth facts. So then all of these belief systems ask people to believe that they hold the truth. But what i want, more than anything is to see people showing Love. isn't that what Jesus Taught? so you see, in my opinion, i tend to stay away from organized religion because people say they are right, but instead of following the example of the most loving being(so that i do not insult anyone's faith)that ever walked this earth.Now once someone can show me a religion without Hate, Fear, War , Killing, then i might listen completely. don't get me wrong, i have come here to learn about your beliefs, so that i can be more Tolerant and avoid listening to all the horrible things people do in the name of God. but I think no matter who Jesus was or wasn't in the end we should learn from those that showed us to be a Peaceful, Humble, Loving individual. I'm not saying i'm perfect. But i detest Violence and Hatred. Peace to you all.

Allah is the Greatest.

Mr. Peacetoall,
Your historical knowledge is very limited. Religion started with Adam and Hawa (Eve) alaihima salaam, when they came to the earth. Their religion was Islam. The religion of Eisa (Jesus) and Musa (Moses) alaihima salaam was Islaam. Christianity and Judaism appeared when the Christians and Jews (originally being Muslims) deviated from the Path of Jesus and Moses i.e. they deviated from Islam. You say Muslims kill Christians and Jews (u used the present tense). This is a false statement. Recent history is the witness that Jews killed thousands of Muslim children, women and men in Palestine on the whole but especially in Gaza. They used Phosphorus bombs to burn the innocent Muslims and Christians helped them with the deadly weapons. All these actions are inhuman, worse than animals! So u are far away from facts.Jesus said that he had brought sword. Now when he comes down, he will fight against the Jews, will kill Dajjaal (the anti-Christ) and will help and save the Muslims because the Christians and Jews all together are killing the Muslims!!! This is a fact which everybody knows and you are covering it.

If you came to the forum to learn, then you must know that faith in God’s Oneness must not be mixed up with the actions of people. The people may act in any way. Allah Almighty God will judge them all on the Day of Judgment. But you must think about your end. The very first question that you will be asked on the Day of Judgment is about the belief in the absolute ONENESS of the Supreme Creator, the same is God and Lord of the worlds Who has no son, no father and no relative or partner and there is none like unto HIM.If you failed at that very first step, nothing will avail you any protection from Hell. And in fact, without that true belief, you cannot love humanity and cannot give peace to anyone.Tell me where is the love and peace of Christians?????????

Every Christian comes on the forum claiming of love and peace. But is it not the Christians who have filled up the whole world with hatred and killing??? Since long (for a hundred years ) Allah has given power mostly to the Christians. They are helping the Jews with deadly weapons to kill numerous Muslims in Palestine.You are not peace at all. Rather you are an oppressor to the oppressed ones. If you were peace you would have accused the Buddhists idolaters in Myanmar who killed and expelled hundreds of thousands of Muslims. For many long years those Muslims have been suffering at the hands of the kafir idolaters. Many of those Muslims were taken to some island and were made to disappear. Many were taken to Thailand where they were kept in shelter and then the shelter was put on fire, thus they were burnt to ashes. (This is all an organized plan for killing the Muslims world-wide). Nowadays powerful Christians are killing their own Christians because the oppressed ones are black----- See recent BBC news. In the last 5 months 385 have been killed (365men+20 women). So if you have peace end love for all then you must accuse all those Buddhist, Christian and Jew killers. But instead you are on this forum to, unjustly, accuse our oppressed Muslims and our pious religion. This is very unfair and manifest injustice from you.If the true Muslims, true followers of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah came up to power, insha-Allah they will be the ones to give love, peace and free justice to all humanity. Allah Almighty rotates power among different nations, giving them time to prove what they do. Fall and rise happened among nations during the long years of history, (if you know history). Now it may be that Allah gives power to the Muslim nation and fills up the land with love peace and justice. As, since long, the power has been in the Christian hands and sorrowfully, the whole world is full of hatred and bloodshed, we seek the refuge of Allah from all the present hatred and bloodshed.

[Sana Ijaz]

1)This was my comment:And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

Did u even read the 1st comments of previous 2 posts?,, my first comment in my previous post was in response to Scimitar comment ,
he said that if in surah nahl 102 Muhammad was supported by Ruh al Quddoos and it means Gabriel then it proves that in surah

baqarah verse 87 , 253 and Surah al maida verse 110 it also means that the spirit was Gabriel ,,,,BOTH SHOULD HAVE THE SAME
MEANINGhe was the one who implied that a word cannot have 2 meanings ,I actually negated his statement by saying that in Surah Nahl verse 2 it is not used in the same context so it is not necessary THAT IT SHOULD HAVE THE SAME MEANING

Where did I said that surah nahl verse 102 and 2 should have the same meaning?is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?
I said this to imply that it can also have a diff meaning other than the meaning in Surah nahl verse 2 U have agreed with me unintentionally ,,,,other wise u wouldn’t have done it knowingly,

You said,,,,
“Your post shows a lack of understanding of how languages work.
In many languages, one word can have more than one meaning. Let's take the English word foil. You can wrap your sandwiches in foil, or you can foil a plot. Refers to two different things. But people who know English, know the two contexts of the word. If someone who is not familiar with English then comes along and says, "how can you say this sentence makes sense?", this is obviously from lack of knowledge.’


I am not familiar with English ,,,i agree ,,,u can also say i am not familiar with any language fully,i will also agree with it,, I don’t
have any knowledge at all, I totally agree,,, u probably didn’t understand what I was trying to say because of my poor English but
what i don’t understand is this why YOU were not able to point out in Scimitar post that he made the mistake of assuming that one word cannot have different meanings?or u didn’t do it intentionally

2)Yes I said that in this matter we are not given knowledge,,,,rather I should have said except a little knowledge,,,yes there is
difference between the two ,,,u r right,,,,but it does not change my point at all,,,,

The thing that i was saying is totally different from what it is said in verses 31:27, 18:109, 12:76 which u have mentioned rather these verses are also giving a different meaning than verse 17:85
So we are talking about knowledge,,In verses 31:27 , 18:109, 12:76 It is said that man knowledge is always and will always be less than Allah knowledge ,,it is fact
But i didn’t said that ,,,what i meant was ,there are 2 types of knowledge in Quran

1)which are clearly understood by us because the knowledge given by Allah is enough for us to understand it

2)There is little knowledge given to us (like in verse 17:85)

and we cannot UNDERSTAND THEM COMPLETLY DUE TO THAT LITTLE KNOWLEDGE,,,God didn’t wanted to full reveal the knowledge and its up to him,,,BUT u said “WHAT WE HAVE GIVEN IS ENOUGH FOR US _i agree it is enough ,,,but it is enough for us because its God will how much He wanted to tell us about something,,,but is it enough for us to fully understand that concept?
NO IT IS NOT,,,and thats where u are wrong because u said u can understand Everything,,,,,

There are many things in quran with little knowledge like In surah 18 -the people of cave

22)(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad ): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.

25. And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years)

26. Say: "Allah knows best how long they stayed. With Him is (the knowledge of) the unseen of the heavens and the earth. How
clearly He sees, and hears (everything)! They have no Wali (Helper, Disposer of affairs, Protector, etc.) other than Him, and He
makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule."

Do u fully know every thing ,,,i don’t think so,,,,,,

3)*Can you read Arabic?
Qudus, is a different word, in pronunciation and meaning, from Al-Quddoos. Allah is the only One who is Al-Quddoos.

To answer ur question i did mentioned both these words in my previous post ,,,didn’t I? Not only translation but i did mentioned
them separately ,,,,,
These are two different words -true -but u missed the fact that they have the same root (ق د س).
Pronunciation is different but meaning is same,,,,which is PURE or HOLY,,,that was my point,,,,U can see in verses which are also previously mentioned in this thread 2:253 , 2:87 ,16:102 ,5:110 even in 62:1 and 59:23,,in all verses it means PURE or HOLY,,,,,,
So u cannot say that meaning is different in above verses,,,,yes a word can have different meaning as previously discussed (like roh is used for spirit as well as for wahi ) but here in all these verses meaning is same,,,,the main point is WITH WHAT WORD PURE OR HOLY IS REFERING TO,,,,,,either it is GOD,,,or either it is Holy Spirit ?
My confusion was that if PURE is Only and Only Allah then how PURE OR HOLY is used for an angel,,,,,U didn’t answered my question??
U know what, i did a mistake here, in my previous post and U DIDN’T EVEN MENTIONED IT,,,,,what u did mentioned is words r diff so meanings are diff(i already told u that ur point is wrong),,,,,u should have mentioned that HOLY IS NOT ONLY USED
FOR GOD and angel,,,,,i did realize my mistake that other than GOD,Angel it is also used in the following verses and i missed them,,,,,

20:12 Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the HOLY (almuqadas) valley of Tuwa.

79:16 When his Lord called to him in the HOLY (al muqadas)valley of Tuwa,
Before u say that almuqadas is a diff word ,,again i will say that the root is the same (ق د س) ,

IN total 10 times this word is used with obviously different words but having same root ,,, and same meaning HOLY or PURE,,,,
And I have seen that if people have some confusion in the understanding of 2 similar words used in 2 separate verses they
consider the root meaning to explain it,,,for a very famously discussed topic in Quran this thing is used but i will not mention it
here ,,,,
I was wrong in saying that HOLY(Quddoos,qudus,muqaddas) is only used for Allah,,it is used with other things so yes it can be used with angel as in Surah al-nahl 102 ,,,,but it doesnot mean that with jesus it is also an angel,,,,,,,, u were also wrong that HOLY is Always used for God,,, it is not necessary

Now if u say that if i am looking for root meaning then why not for ruh-al -qadoos ?even the words are similar in verse surah al-nahl 102 and in verses when it is used for Jesus???
The thing is that i agree the words are same and should be considered as same meaning but quran negates this:

it is not necessary that similar words should have mean same meaning,,,,but they can also have a same meaning ,,,if we consider this fact then there is also a chance that roh -al-qaddoos is actually Gibriel when used with Jesus,,,i would have considered it but what about the verses that actually negates this fact which is also the answer to ur next question

u said ,,,,Your logic above is faulty, as explained by the lack of knowledge of Arabic. It is "a spirit from Him" or a spirit belonging to Him. Really where in these verses it is mentioned that it was a spirit created by God?? 21:91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her ofOur Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples."

32:9 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His Spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks
give ye!

66:12 " And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefore We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.



You said you have studied. In Islam we have etiquettes of studying, which include not making up our own explanations, and referring to people of knowledge.



A person cannot makeup his own religion,according to his/her own beliefs,,,,not only it applies to Islam but to every other religion-
these were not my beliefs,,,,these r the beliefs which are mentioned in quran,,,I don’t follow any particular religion,,,and that was my main point when I replied on this thread,,,No religion is perfect,,,every1 thinks that their religions is perfect and the best,,,truth is
every religion has flaws,,,,And if it is so perfect than why people see flaws in it?


The starter of this thread was pointing out that concepts in Christianity r incorrect,,,if some of their concepts are incorrect then so does ur religion,,,even there are contradictions in hadith and quran , Quranist don’t even read hadith,,,

U said,,,
The confusion, which has existed since the early days in Christianity, is what to do with the holy spirit, what it was. They couldn't
decide, then nearly 400 years after Isa alayhissalaam (Jesus, peace be on him), one group discarded all other views and said the holy
spirit was the part of God that lived in human bodies. This, up to that point, had nowhere been clearly stated, not even in scripture.
Islam is clear, and has no such confusion.


I am not defending Christianity or Islam,,,both r not perfect,,,,I only believe in God,,,


As to translations, most put explanatory words in additions in brackets, and don't replace words.
Really? it is common to put explanatory words as part of the verse and yes some do replace words according to their understanding,,,

[Sana Ijaz]

Nbegam there is not a single religion at peace right now,,,the facts u stated are correct,,,if u are saying that christians and jews are killing muslims ,,that is true because muslims are opressed right now,,,if muslims were in power they would also have killed people in the name of Jihad,,,,so it goes both ways,,, how can u say that muslims are peaceful ?they are not peaceful either,,,did u not see how a christian couple was burnt alive by a large group of Muslims because they were accused of blasphamey,,,and it was a false accusition -so the areas where muslims are not opressed they also do same type of things ,,,muslims kill muslims in name of jihad ,,,so u cannot say that Muslims are peaceful,,,Not a single religion in now a days can claim that they are peaceful,,,either they are being killed where they r opressed and where they are in power they r killing others ,,,,so dont defend because every1 know what is going on,,,,,

[OmAbdullah]

when ever u want to convince someone of something provide evidence ,,,i agree what Nakai has said,,,even i have read many threads in which there are literally essays written to prove that people who dont follow islam are going to hell (i dont know why muslims are tend to b so angry)u know what even we can say all that stuff to u but we dont :statisfie

focus on references thats the key point if u wanna convince someone,,,

Can i ask u something,,what is HOLY SPIRIT(Roh-ul_qudus) in quran?there are verses where angels,spirit,and gabrial is used separately in different verses in quarn?so how can u say that holy spirit is actually gabrial nd not a spirit of God? what does HIS spirit ,Our spirit,My spirit means in Quran?nd why it is wrong to assume that it means spirit Of God?

the main diff between islam and christianity is due to this very point ,,,can u state the quranic verses with arabic translation please and tell how to prove this concept according to quran?

1:بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ

Used in 3 verses which u have mentioned with Jesus

And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

He sends down the angels,(Yunazzilu almala-ikata) with the inspiration of His command,(bialrroohi min amrihi) upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."


Used for Wahi or inspiration of His command,,,

2)17:85 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."



According to is this verse u can’t even know what a spirit is ,then how can u say that Roh-al qadoos is Gabriel ,,,when u are not even given the knowledge of it ?

3)"الۡمَلِکِ الۡقُدُّوۡسِ"

it has been used two times with Allah in Quran:

59:23
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

62:1: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Don’t u think it will be wrong to use it with an angel if if it is used for Allah?

4) 19:19 He said, "I am only the messenger (Rasool) of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

However Rasool and Angels are different in the following ayat and are not the same thing

2:98)Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers (Apostles) and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to
the disbelievers.

Messengers (Rasool) is written separately from Angels does it mean that in ayat 19:19 messenger of lord is not an angel?

U asked me what is my understanding about it,,,
From what i have come to know while studying Quran Roh-al-qadoos is not Gabriel,,if it is Gabriel then why it is not clearly mentioned?
There is no confusion in christianity they clearly say that it is the spirit of God Himself(a part of God),,that's why they say Son Of God,,,then why there is confusion in Islam.
Why do the ayats have above mentioned contradict each other?
I am not defending Christianity as I am notChristian but i am confused about it that how did the translators came to the conclusion that it in in fact Gabriel or they just assumed it,,,many translators actually replace this word with Gabriel in their translations (which in my opinion a person should not replace the actual arabic translation with their own understanding,,,because people usually dont focus on arabic and it creates misunderstanding)
I do believe in Oneness of God ,I don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God but if Quran says that It was His spirit(God’s own spirit) and He hasn't mentioned this thing about other Prophets then why cant we believe that it was a part of God?And it is not necessary to believe that if it was God's own spirit then it makes Jesus the SOn of God,,,,,
So why cant we believe both-Oneness of God and also that it was God's Own Spirit

Your post is a mass of confusion which presents the extreme confusion in your mind. And I understood that the cause of your extreme confusion may be due to the fact that you, with the help of internet, are taking out the verses out of their context and are trying to fit them on Christian faith. You are not reading the Holy Quraan in its continuity to understand the statement thoroughly. This method of dealing with the Quraan or with any book or statement will surely make it not understandable, rather it will change its meaning completely. Just take an example:
Allah Almighty said In Surah Al-Nisa; “laa taqrb as-salaata wa antum sukaraa”
It means, “Don’t go near prayer while you are drunk”.
This is a very clear Command without any ambiguity. Now, if a person like you separates the words and takes them out of context saying: “ Lo God said, don’t go near prayer. And also God ordered to make prayer, so there is contradiction in Quraan.”


I say “astaghfirulah, may Allah protect us from such blind attempts against the Holy Quraan which is a great Divine Book free of any ambiguity, free of any confusion, very clear to understand and very powerful to cause the rising and falling of people on the day of Judgment”.


Don’t think that the attempts that you are making, just like Ghulam Ahmad Mirza Qadyaani, to put people in doubt about The Holy Quraan, are ignored. Certainly, all of your attempts are recorded by the honorable angels and you will suffer agonizing pain due to these black attempts and shall have no way of escape from Hell. It is not me who is against you but you yourself are preparing that horrible doom for yourself!!!

Now I will answer your questions one by one.

1. To Mr. Nikai, I had explained the points of wisdom. Allah has sent down Allah’s revelations according to human wisdom. Any human who fights (like you) his/her conscience and wisdom, can never understand the truth.

Mr. Nikai didn’t argue against wisdom points. It may be that he was sincere to himself and accepted the understanding of wisdom. But you?You are fighting against your conscience and wisdom, therefore your enemy “Satan” is succeeding to mislead you to Hell.

1. You have made Ruh-ul-Qudus and Al-Quddoos the same thing. These are two different names. AL-QUDDOOS is the Holy Name of Allah while Ruh-ul Qudus is the title of Arch-Angel Jibreel (alaihi salaam) whose name is changed to Gabriel by the Christians.

Ruh-ul-Qudus means the pious soul/spirit. Jibreel alaihi salaam has a very high position among the angels. He was appointed to bring Allah’s Divine Message (Revelations) to all Prophets (alaihim salaam) in the same pure form as He received them from Allah, so He was very trust-worthy. Allah also called Him Ruh-ul-ameen in the verse 193 of surah Al-Shu’ara. Read these verses in their context:


Surah Al-Nahl verses 101—1o4

101. And when We change a Verse [of the Quran, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.

102. Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."

103. And We certainly know that they say, "It is only a human being who teaches the Prophet." The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, and this Qur'an is [in] a clear Arabic language.

104. Indeed, those who do not believe in the verses of Allah - Allah will not guide them, and for them is a painful punishment.

Here the translator has translated “Ruh-ul-Qudus” into ‘Pure Spirit”. It is well known from the Holy Quraan and Sunnah that Jibreel alaihi salaam was the one who used to bring the revelations to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Therefore other translators have also given the name of Jibreel alaihi salaam. Then what is the confusion and where is the contradiction???

Surah Al-shu’ara verses 192—195:

192. And lo! it is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds,
193. The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
194. Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
195. In a clear Arabic language.

These are the verses of surah Al-shu’ara in which Allah called Jibreel by the name Ruh-ul-Ameen (the trust worthy spirit).

Is there any confusion or contradiction?

Surah Al-Baqarah verse 87:
87. And indeed, We gave Musa (Moses) the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel) ]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed.

In the above verse Allah almighty told us that Allah gave help to Eisa (Jesus) alihi salaam through Ruh-ul-Qudus i.e. Jibreel (as I explained above). Similarly, in verse 253 of the same surah Al-Baqarah, Allah said Allah helped Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam through Ruh-ul-Qudus, the pious Ruh which is the title of Jibreel alaihi salaam. This statement in both of the verses is very clear. Why then you make cojectures from these verses that Jesus was a part from Allah, نعوذ با لله . We seek the refuge of Allah from such conjectures.


Surah Al-Nahl verse 2.
He sends down the angels, with the inspiration of His command, upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."

The Commentators say that in this verse 2 of surah Al-Nahl the word Ruh means Ruh of Prophethood. It is further explained that receiving of wahi by tha Prophets was not an easy job. We know from the ahadeeth of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam that one type of wahi used to be very hard on him. (There were different types of wahi). Once the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) was on a camel when wahi started coming un to him, due to its burden, the camel couldn’t keep on standing and it sat down. Therefore to give him the strength to receive the wahi a special ruh was sent down to him through the angel.

Now we see from this verse and its explanation in Maududi’s tafseer, that even Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was helped by special Ruh from Allah Almighty. But we can’t exaggerate in faith and don’t cross the limits as the Christians have done and you are supporting their exaggerations.


Allah said in surah Al-Hijr verses 28-29:
28. And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "I will create a human being out of clay from an altered black mud.

29. And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

You can see here that Allah, The Creator said about Adam alaihi salaam that Allah breathed into him (Adam) from Allah’s Ruh. The Arabic words are, “wa nafakhtu feehi min ruhi”
This clearly means, “and WE blew into him from MY RUH (Spirit)”.

Look at our honorable , God-fearing Muslim translators, they add in the parenthesis the word “created”. This is to remove any misunderstanding or exaggerations.

So from this verse it is proved that Adam alaihi sallam got life by a great ruh from Allah.


Then come to the verses 6--9 of surah Al-Sajdah:

6. That is He, the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen, the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful.

7. Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.

8. Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid;


The arabic words are نسله which means “his race” i.e. all mankind. Yes, we are the nasal (race) of Adam alaihi salaam.

Another translation of the same verse 8 of surah Al-Sajdah is:

8. Then He made his offspring from semen of worthless water (male and female sexual discharge).

9. Then He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him the soul (created by Allah for that person), and He gave you hearing (ears), sight (eyes) and hearts. Little is the thanks you give!


In these verses of surah Al-Sajdah is mentioned the creation of mankind starting from Adam alaihi salaam to the end, all mankind until the end of this world and Allah said about the race that is about us all that Allah gave His ruh (spirit/soul) and surely we are alive due to that soul.

Now bring your argument O Sana Ijaz. What is your belief now? Allah has given from Allah’s Ruh to all mankind and that soul is a source of our life!!!

It doesn’t mean that some part of Allah is given to Adam or to all human beings or to Jesus. No, Not at all. Allah as God and Creator is very HIGH above any defects. Allah didn’t associate anyone with HIM in any way.

Rather it has two meanings:

a). That the spirit given to us, to Jibreel and to others belongs to Allah. It is the property of Allah. In fact everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Allah and everyone in the heavens and the earth also belongs to Allah.

b). Allah has given very high qualities to mankind through this soul/ruh. Due to those qualities Allah made him khalifah on the earth and ordered the angels to prostrate unto him.


In surah Maryam Allah said about Jibreel alaihi salaam:

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.

18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah,

19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."
.
It is very clear from these verses that Allah had sent Allah’s Messenger to Maryam alaiha salaam. He appeared before her as perfect bashar i.e. that belonged to a type of creation which could change his shape. So it appeared before her as a man. Then He must be from angels. Then Allah called him by the name, “ruhanaa” (Our Ruh). So he must be Jibreel as we know from the Quraan that His title was Ruh (Ruhul-Qudus and Ruhul-Ameen). Again, When Maryam, a pious girl scared from him and sought the refuge of Allah, He told her that He was only a Messenger of Allah to inform her of a gift of a righteous son. It means that He was a Messenger of Allah from among the angels. Then every Christian, Jew and Muslim must be knowing that it was Jibreel alaihi salaam who was especially appointed a Messenger to bring Allah’s Divine Message to every Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him).


Keeping all mentioned above in view, I don’t understand where is the confusion and where is the contradiction?

Rather it appears very strange and non-sense to make Eisa (Jesus) a part of Almighty God or son of God or even to make him God. Christians, along with people like you have many conjectures. Some say that Jesus is God who came down and then made Himself get crucified on the cross!!! Some say that God sent down HIS son to get crucified for the sins of mankind. I think by this non-sense faith the killers want to escape the punishment for their killing, but it is not possible. No one was sacrificed for their sins and they shall burn in Hell unless they repent to Allah and choose the correct faith of Islam.

Again another group believes in trinity and they made God composed of three parts. They are very much confused by their nonsense belief and sometimes they satisfy themselves with the structure of egg, having three parts or by the structure of apple etc.

See how much confusion is there in Christianity!!! Then compare it with the clear verses of Al-Qur’aan. Read the English translation of surah Al-Ikhlaas:

1. Say, "He is Allah, The Only One,
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

The verse 2 says that Allah is Self-Sufficient, Allah does not depend on anyone while everyone depends upon Allah.

The verse 4 says that there is none like unto HIM. So none can be Allah’s partner or spouse.

If anyone finds confusion or contradiction in any of the above mentioned verses or this statement, please write what is the confusion or contradiction?

[OmAbdullah]

1)This was my comment:And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

Did u even read the 1st comments of previous 2 posts?,, my first comment in my previous post was in response to Scimitar comment ,
he said that if in surah nahl 102 Muhammad was supported by Ruh al Quddoos and it means Gabriel then it proves that in surah

baqarah verse 87 , 253 and Surah al maida verse 110 it also means that the spirit was Gabriel ,,,,BOTH SHOULD HAVE THE SAME
MEANINGhe was the one who implied that a word cannot have 2 meanings ,I actually negated his statement by saying that in Surah Nahl verse 2 it is not used in the same context so it is not necessary THAT IT SHOULD HAVE THE SAME MEANING

Where did I said that surah nahl verse 102 and 2 should have the same meaning?is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?
I said this to imply that it can also have a diff meaning other than the meaning in Surah nahl verse 2 U have agreed with me unintentionally ,,,,other wise u wouldn’t have done it knowingly,

You said,,,,
“Your post shows a lack of understanding of how languages work.
In many languages, one word can have more than one meaning. Let's take the English word foil. You can wrap your sandwiches in foil, or you can foil a plot. Refers to two different things. But people who know English, know the two contexts of the word. If someone who is not familiar with English then comes along and says, "how can you say this sentence makes sense?", this is obviously from lack of knowledge.’


I am not familiar with English ,,,i agree ,,,u can also say i am not familiar with any language fully,i will also agree with it,, I don’t
have any knowledge at all, I totally agree,,, u probably didn’t understand what I was trying to say because of my poor English but
what i don’t understand is this why YOU were not able to point out in Scimitar post that he made the mistake of assuming that one word cannot have different meanings?or u didn’t do it intentionally

2)Yes I said that in this matter we are not given knowledge,,,,rather I should have said except a little knowledge,,,yes there is
difference between the two ,,,u r right,,,,but it does not change my point at all,,,,

The thing that i was saying is totally different from what it is said in verses 31:27, 18:109, 12:76 which u have mentioned rather these verses are also giving a different meaning than verse 17:85
So we are talking about knowledge,,In verses 31:27 , 18:109, 12:76 It is said that man knowledge is always and will always be less than Allah knowledge ,,it is fact
But i didn’t said that ,,,what i meant was ,there are 2 types of knowledge in Quran

1)which are clearly understood by us because the knowledge given by Allah is enough for us to understand it

2)There is little knowledge given to us (like in verse 17:85)

and we cannot UNDERSTAND THEM COMPLETLY DUE TO THAT LITTLE KNOWLEDGE,,,God didn’t wanted to full reveal the knowledge and its up to him,,,BUT u said “WHAT WE HAVE GIVEN IS ENOUGH FOR US _i agree it is enough ,,,but it is enough for us because its God will how much He wanted to tell us about something,,,but is it enough for us to fully understand that concept?
NO IT IS NOT,,,and thats where u are wrong because u said u can understand Everything,,,,,

There are many things in quran with little knowledge like In surah 18 -the people of cave

22)(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad ): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.

25. And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years)

26. Say: "Allah knows best how long they stayed. With Him is (the knowledge of) the unseen of the heavens and the earth. How
clearly He sees, and hears (everything)! They have no Wali (Helper, Disposer of affairs, Protector, etc.) other than Him, and He
makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule."

Do u fully know every thing ,,,i don’t think so,,,,,,

3)*Can you read Arabic?
Qudus, is a different word, in pronunciation and meaning, from Al-Quddoos. Allah is the only One who is Al-Quddoos.

To answer ur question i did mentioned both these words in my previous post ,,,didn’t I? Not only translation but i did mentioned
them separately ,,,,,
These are two different words -true -but u missed the fact that they have the same root (ق د س).
Pronunciation is different but meaning is same,,,,which is PURE or HOLY,,,that was my point,,,,U can see in verses which are also previously mentioned in this thread 2:253 , 2:87 ,16:102 ,5:110 even in 62:1 and 59:23,,in all verses it means PURE or HOLY,,,,,,
So u cannot say that meaning is different in above verses,,,,yes a word can have different meaning as previously discussed (like roh is used for spirit as well as for wahi ) but here in all these verses meaning is same,,,,the main point is WITH WHAT WORD PURE OR HOLY IS REFERING TO,,,,,,either it is GOD,,,or either it is Holy Spirit ?
My confusion was that if PURE is Only and Only Allah then how PURE OR HOLY is used for an angel,,,,,U didn’t answered my question??
U know what, i did a mistake here, in my previous post and U DIDN’T EVEN MENTIONED IT,,,,,what u did mentioned is words r diff so meanings are diff(i already told u that ur point is wrong),,,,,u should have mentioned that HOLY IS NOT ONLY USED
FOR GOD and angel,,,,,i did realize my mistake that other than GOD,Angel it is also used in the following verses and i missed them,,,,,

20:12 Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the HOLY (almuqadas) valley of Tuwa.

79:16 When his Lord called to him in the HOLY (al muqadas)valley of Tuwa,
Before u say that almuqadas is a diff word ,,again i will say that the root is the same (ق د س) ,

IN total 10 times this word is used with obviously different words but having same root ,,, and same meaning HOLY or PURE,,,,
And I have seen that if people have some confusion in the understanding of 2 similar words used in 2 separate verses they
consider the root meaning to explain it,,,for a very famously discussed topic in Quran this thing is used but i will not mention it
here ,,,,
I was wrong in saying that HOLY(Quddoos,qudus,muqaddas) is only used for Allah,,it is used with other things so yes it can be used with angel as in Surah al-nahl 102 ,,,,but it doesnot mean that with jesus it is also an angel,,,,,,,, u were also wrong that HOLY is Always used for God,,, it is not necessary

Now if u say that if i am looking for root meaning then why not for ruh-al -qadoos ?even the words are similar in verse surah al-nahl 102 and in verses when it is used for Jesus???
The thing is that i agree the words are same and should be considered as same meaning but quran negates this:

it is not necessary that similar words should have mean same meaning,,,,but they can also have a same meaning ,,,if we consider this fact then there is also a chance that roh -al-qaddoos is actually Gibriel when used with Jesus,,,i would have considered it but what about the verses that actually negates this fact which is also the answer to ur next question

u said ,,,,Your logic above is faulty, as explained by the lack of knowledge of Arabic. It is "a spirit from Him" or a spirit belonging to Him.Really where in these verses it is mentioned that it was a spirit created by God??21:91And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her ofOur Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples."

32:9 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His Spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks
give ye!

66:12 " And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefore We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.



You said you have studied. In Islam we have etiquettes of studying, which include not making up our own explanations, and referring to people of knowledge.



A person cannot makeup his own religion,according to his/her own beliefs,,,,not only it applies to Islam but to every other religion-
these were not my beliefs,,,,these r the beliefs which are mentioned in quran,,,I don’t follow any particular religion,,,and that was my main point when I replied on this thread,,,No religion is perfect,,,every1 thinks that their religions is perfect and the best,,,truth is
every religion has flaws,,,,And if it is so perfect than why people see flaws in it?


The starter of this thread was pointing out that concepts in Christianity r incorrect,,,if some of their concepts are incorrect then so does ur religion,,,even there are contradictions in hadith and quran , Quranist don’t even read hadith,,,

U said,,,
The confusion, which has existed since the early days in Christianity, is what to do with the holy spirit, what it was. They couldn't
decide, then nearly 400 years after Isa alayhissalaam (Jesus, peace be on him), one group discarded all other views and said the holy
spirit was the part of God that lived in human bodies. This, up to that point, had nowhere been clearly stated, not even in scripture.
Islam is clear, and has no such confusion.


I am not defending Christianity or Islam,,,both r not perfect,,,,I only believe in God,,,


As to translations, most put explanatory words in additions in brackets, and don't replace words.
Really? it is common to put explanatory words as part of the verse and yes some do replace words according to their understanding,,,

Sana Ijaz,

Now I am sure that you are a Qaadyania!!!

You are a liar and your words contradict with each other. You repeatedly say that you are not Christian but you are fighting again and again for the Christian faith. Your knowledge in English language is very low. You don't know grammar to make correct sentences. making wrong sentences in English may not be sinful but it surely causes disturbance and confusion. But having no Knowledge in the Holy Quraan and fighting in its verses is terrible, it is very sinful and a person like you is not allowed to interpret the verses of Quraan. This is not the correct way and it is very sinful. You don't know Arabic but you are fighting and insisting on the wrong application of the Holy Verses. It is better for you to keep away from such application and interpretation of the Qur'aanic verses.

[OmAbdullah]

You can ask me :)

"(The day) when God saith: 'O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity." - Surah al Maida ayah 110

The ayah above tells us that both, Jesus pbuh and his mother - Mary pbuh, were both supported by the Ruh al Quddus.
Scimi

Assalamo alaikum,

I am thankful for your answer when I was absent from the forum due travelling. But there is something important to be noted.

The verse 110 of surah Al-Ma’idah doesn’t say that both Jesus and his mother were supported by the Ruh-ul-Qudus.
The Arabic words are: أيدتك بروح القدس (ayyad-tuka biruhil-qudus). Here the letter “ك” (ka) indicates “second person male singular pronoun”. If it was for both of them then it would be, “أيدتكما”. Every writer must be careful to write the correct meaning and keep away from any type of exaggeration.

[Sana Ijaz]

having no Knowledge in the Holy Quraan and fighting in its verses is terrible, it is very sinful and a person like you is not allowed to interpret the verses of Quraan. This is not the correct way and it is very sinful. You don't know Arabic but you are fighting and insisting on the wrong application of the Holy Verses. It is better for you to keep away from such application and interpretation of the Qur'aanic verses.

Ok i won't talk about Quran if it bothers you ,,,clearly you have copyrights ...:statisfie why did u started this thread in the first place? If u don't want people to critisize u then don't do it with other people ,,,,(and please my view in this matter will not change if you were talking about hinduism or any other religion,,,or if u were not a Muslim)

your words contradict with each other.

Ok if u say so I can accept it,,,,

You don't know grammar to make correct sentences. making wrong sentences in English may not be sinful but it surely causes disturbance and confusion.

yes I strongly agree with you in this matter :p

Now I am sure that you are a Qaadyania!!!

Really ?I have never labelled my self,,,u are doing this job for me thank u,,,,,

You are a liar

well I can accept everything but this is one thing which I am not,,,and never will be

You repeatedly say that you are not Christian but you are fighting again and again for the Christian faith.

why do you think it is so important to label some1 ,,,,can't u just look at someone without labelling him/her ,,,,,and why do u think I am defending any specific religion,,,,if I agree with the concept of some other religion other than Islam why does it bother U that much? If that makes me a Christian than I also said I believe in one God ,,,and Christians don't believe in this concept ,,,so what does that make me?????A Muslim? It's strange not a single Christian has said to me that if I believe in Oneness of God than I am a Muslim,,,,,if that's ur logic than I clearly belong to many religions,,,,

[Sana Ijaz]

Well i think u should make up ur mind whether want to label me as a Christian or a Qaadyania,,,,

[ali399]

Great information ..

[OmAbdullah]

Ok i won't talk about Quran if it bothers you ,,,clearly you have copyrights ... why did u started this thread in the first place? If u don't want people to critisize u then don't do it with other people ,,,,(and please my view in this matter will not change if you were talking about hinduism or any other religion,,,or if u were not a Muslim)


well I can accept everything but this is one thing which I am not,,,and never will be

I had started this thread to guide people from darkness into light. I did it very sincerely because I wish the same for all mankind as I wish for myself and my family.Yes!!! I wish that I get protection from Hell Fire as well as my family and I wish the same for all mankind. My statements are in accordance with common human wisdom and are thus reasonable.
You on the other hand are trying to keep people in darkness and are trying to lead them to Hell.Your arguments are against wisdom. You are openly helping Satan and Satan is an avowed enemy to mankind!!! So you are not sincere to people including Christians. Rather you are helping Satan against them to lead them into Hell Fire.
You say that you don’t lie but your biggest and manifest lie is your false accusations on Allah and Allah’s Book—The Holy Quraan. I explained the things in the light of the verses of The Holy Quraan. Now you must accept the manifest Truth but instead you are insisting on your falsehood and are asking me, “ why did I start this thread”. I hope that People know about my aim which is to inform them about the truth and to make them alert against their enemy named Satan.

May Allah guide you to the right Path. I am also sincere to you and advise you to forget about the temporary gains of this worldly life and think about the Hereafter which is everlasting. The blessings of Paradise in the Hereafter are unique and everlasting!!! Also the punishment in Hell is uniquely severe and everlasting!!! A person, who sells his/her Al-Aakhirah for the sake of this temporary life, is not wise but is stupid!!!

[eireannach]

Mark 12:29 - "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."

As Christians we do believe in one God.

---------- Post Merged at 06:11 AM ----------

Please define the word "Christian"?

---------- Post Merged at 06:15 AM ----------

Matthew 7:21-23King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Abz2000]

father had a wide range of meanings back in the day when vocabulary was limited, it also meant possessor, one skilled in one who dotes on or is obsessed with in arabic (abu hurayra abu turab, abu lahab abu ql hakam abu jahl etc) the man could have been easily excused for regularly using it when you understand the fact that they (hypocrites) knew he spoke from the cradle yet tried to discredit him in front of people for the sake of contention by asking him who his father was, he told them they were the devil's children in response once, but they still said they were Abraham's children and "not base born" before haughtily walking off.
try to imagine yourself in that situation and i'm sure you'll understand.

consider the very fact that his mother was found pregnant without having been touched by man, they knew him well but bought foolish cases to him as a way of trying to trick him into making a judgement for them, blindly looking at the law while ignoring the context seems to have been a heirloom they passed on to the kuffar of today:

the following is from john chapter 8, i'm certain that any thinking reader would understand the context of the word "father" in the following confrontation.

1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.*2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.*3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,*4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.*
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?*
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.
But Jesus stooped down, and with*his*finger wrote on the ground,*as though he heard them not.*
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.*8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.*9And they which heard*it, being convicted by*their own*conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest,*even*unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.*
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?*11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more......

.....
19Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father?
Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.*.....

........I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am*he, ye shall die in your sins.
*25Then said they unto him, Who art thou?
And Jesus saith unto them, Even*the same*that I said unto you from the beginning.*
26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.*......


....... 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.*
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.
Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.*
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.*
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father,*even*God.

........ 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.*43Why do ye not understand my speech?*even*because ye cannot hear my word.
*44Ye are of*your*father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
*45And because I tell*you*the truth, ye believe me not.*46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?*
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear*them*not, because ye are not of God.

....... 51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.*
52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.*53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

at the end of that longwinded chapter they lose the argument and end up trying to stone him anyway so you can see how stupid it was all getting.

john 7 explains the orwellian denial plus doublethink system they were living in.

.19Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”
20“You are demon-possessed,” the crowd answered. “Who is trying to kill you?”.....
21Jesus said to them,*“I did one miracle, and you are all amazed.22Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath.
23Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?*

24Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

25At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask, “Isn’t this the man they are trying to kill?*
26Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him. Have the authorities really concluded that he is the Messiah?*27But we know where this man is from; when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.”

40On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.”41Others said, “He is the Messiah.”Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee?42Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?”43Thus the people were divided because of Jesus.*44Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him.Unbelief of the Jewish Leaders
45Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and the Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”46“No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards replied.
47“You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted.48“Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him?*49No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.”
50Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked,*51“Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing?”
52They replied, “Are you from Galilee, too? Look into it, and you will find that a prophet does not come out of Galilee.”



does it appear as false script to you or a historical record that adds up?
also does this "came to die for our sins" storyline add up with the man in the book demanding to know why they were trying to kill him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiFGMYpLUc

amazing, a man realizing he's sitting to dinner at the hospitality of his betrayers says you're eating my flesh and blood, here you go, so again they foolishly translate it as "he told us to eat his flesh and blood". wasn't there enough cause to use the brain to interpret speech in the chapter of john 8?

[OmAbdullah]

Surah Younus verses 68---70 (only their translation):
68. They have said, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. You have no authority for this [claim]. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?

69. Say: "Indeed those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper."

70. This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve.

My sincere advice is to understand and correct your Faith before death overtakes you and then regretting will be useless!!!

[Serinity]

So the christians have attributted a lie to Allah, by, God forbid, calling Him father? A false attribute?

[The-Deist]

So the christians have attributted a lie to Allah, by, God forbid, calling Him father? A false attribute?

It's just a name, not an attribute.

[Abz2000]

When Jesus had said this, Philip answered: 'We are content to serve God, but we desire, however, to know God. For Isaiah the prophet said: "Verily thou art a hidden God," and God said to Moses his servant: "I am that which I am."Jesus answered: 'Philip, God is a good without which there is naught good; God is a being without which there is naught that is; God is a life without which there is naught that liveth; so great that he filleth all and is everywhere. He alone hath no equal. He hath had no beginning, nor will he ever have an end, but to everything hath he given a beginning and to everything shall he give an end. He hath no father nor mother; he hath no sons, nor brethren, nor companions. And because God hath no body, therefore he eateth not, sleepeth not, dieth not, walketh not, moveth not, but abideth eternally without human similitude, for that he is incorporeal, uncompounded, immaterial, of the most simple substance. He is so good that he loveth goodness only; he is so just that when he punisheth or pardoneth it cannot be gainsaid. In short, I say unto thee, Philip, that here on earth thou canst not see him nor know him perfectly; but in his kingdom thou shalt see him for ever: wherein consisteth all our happiness and glory.'

Philip answered: 'Master, what sayest thou? It is surely written in Isaiah that God is our father; how, then, hath he no sons?'

Jesus answered: 'There are written in the prophets many parables, wherefore thou oughtest not to attend to the letter, but to the sense.

For all the prophets, that are one hundred and forty-four thousand, whom God hath sent into the world, have spoken darkly. But after me shall come the Splendour of all the prophets and holy ones, and shall shed light upon the darkness of all that the prophets have said, because he is the messenger of God.' And having said this, Jesus sighed and said: 'Have mercy on Israel, O Lord God and look with pity upon Abraham and upon his seed, in order that they may serve thee with truth of heart.His disciples answered: 'So be it, O Lord our God!'Jesus said: 'Verily I say unto you, the scribes and doctors have made void the law of God with their false prophecies, contrary to the prophecies of the true prophets of God: Wherefore God is wroth with the house of Israel and with this faithless generation.' His disciples wept at these words, and said: 'Have mercy, O God, have mercy upon the temple and upon the holy city, and give it not into contempt of the nations that they despise not thy holy covenant.' Jesus answered: 'So be it, Lord God of our fathers.'

Barnabas 17

23Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?”
24Jesus replied,*“I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things.*25John’s baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?”
They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’*26But if we say, ‘Of human origin’—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.”27So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.”
Then he said,*“Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.

The Parable of the Two Sons

28“What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’29“ ‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30“Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them,*“Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.*32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

The Parable of the Tenants
33“Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place.*34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.35“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.*
36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.*
37Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.38“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’*39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
42Jesus said to them,*“Have you never read in the Scriptures:“ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;the Lord has done this,and it is marvelous in our eyes?
43“Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.*
44Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

Matthew 21

[Sojourn]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.

So is the Islamic understanding that Jesus was sent to guide the Jews of his time towards Tawheed?

Why is he considered a great prophet in Islam?

[OmAbdullah]

So is the Islamic understanding that Jesus was sent to guide the Jews of his time towards Tawheed?

Why is he considered a great prophet in Islam?

Your question is not very clear. But I try to answer, if it is not the answer then you should make your question understandable.


Islam has been the religion of all Prophets since Adam alaihi salaam till the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. This is the religion that Allah sent down for all human beings and for the jinns. Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam was from among all those Prophets alaihim salaam. Every Prophet was very great. We are not supposed to make difference among them. You can see the translation of the following verse of the Holy Quraan:

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."

As you can see the underlined red part of the above mentioned verse translated into English, we as Muslims cannot make difference among the Prophets of Allah Almighty. we have to give them all great respect. So all of them, including Eisa (Jesus) alaihim salaam were the great Prophets of Islam.

[Sojourn]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.

Your question is not very clear. But I try to answer, if it is not the answer then you should make your question understandable.


Islam has been the religion of all Prophets since Adam alaihi salaam till the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. This is the religion that Allah sent down for all human beings and for the jinns. Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam was from among all those Prophets alaihim salaam. Every Prophet was very great. We are not supposed to make difference among them. You can see the translation of the following verse of the Holy Quraan:

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."

As you can see the underlined red part of the above mentioned verse translated into English, we as Muslims cannot make difference among the Prophets of Allah Almighty. we have to give them all great respect. So all of them, including Eisa (Jesus) alaihim salaam were the great Prophets of Islam.

My question is according to Islam why was Jesus sent to the Jews of his time? Was it to teach them tawheed?

[OmAbdullah]

My question is according to Islam why was Jesus sent to the Jews of his time? Was it to teach them tawheed?

Jews were basiclly Bani-Isra-eel which means the children of Isra-eel. Isra-eel was the second name of the Prophet Yaqoob (Jacob in Bible) alaihi salaam. Many Prophets were sent to them. That nation lived for very long duration extending from Yaqoob (Jacob) alaihi salaam until now and from now they will exist until the second coming down of Eisa (Jesus ) alaihi salaam from the heaven to the earth. In this long existing nation of the Bani-Isra-eel there were good knowledgeable sections for e.g. those for whom Allah sent Musa alaihi salaam to rescue them from the oppression of Pharaoh. But there were many who were extremely disobedient to the Prophets alaihim salaam. Even they killed many of them. The Holy Quraan gives in detail the blessings given to them and the disobedience that they showed. They were also punished with exemplary punishments, for e.g. a tribe was changed into apes because they didn't respect "Saturday" which was a holy day for them. They disobeyed the Command of Allah to abstain from catching fish on Saturday. So they were cursed and were changed into apes/monkeys!!!



From the above statement you will understand that the Prophets were sent to them to follow the religion Islam in total. But, of course, Tawheed has been the bases of the religion Islam at all times and by all the Prophets. Jesus also was from among those Prophets. Allah created him miraculously and showed them a unique miracle that Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam spoke to them when he was a new born baby in the lap of his mother. He was given Injeel (the Gospel) but it didn't have the law. So Eisa alaihi salaam had to teach them Gospel as well as Tawrah because the law was in the Tawrah.


Tawheed was the bases and that included to follow the laws and Commands of Allah. Tawheed means to believe in the absolute Oneness and Uniqueness of Almighty God, but the practical proof of the faith of Tawheed is given by acting upon the Commands and Laws of Allah. All these teachings were included in the duties of Eisa alaihi salaam. The Jews, as usual, turned against him and made a plan to kill him, but they couldn't reach him as Allah lifted him up to the heavens.

[Sojourn]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.

Your question is not very clear. But I try to answer, if it is not the answer then you should make your question understandable.


Islam has been the religion of all Prophets since Adam alaihi salaam till the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. This is the religion that Allah sent down for all human beings and for the jinns. Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam was from among all those Prophets alaihim salaam. Every Prophet was very great. We are not supposed to make difference among them. You can see the translation of the following verse of the Holy Quraan:

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."

As you can see the underlined red part of the above mentioned verse translated into English, we as Muslims cannot make difference among the Prophets of Allah Almighty. we have to give them all great respect. So all of them, including Eisa (Jesus) alaihim salaam were the great Prophets of Islam.

Jews were basiclly Bani-Isra-eel which means the children of Isra-eel. Isra-eel was the second name of the Prophet Yaqoob (Jacob in Bible) alaihi salaam. Many Prophets were sent to them. That nation lived for very long duration extending from Yaqoob (Jacob) alaihi salaam until now and from now they will exist until the second coming down of Eisa (Jesus ) alaihi salaam from the heaven to the earth. In this long existing nation of the Bani-Isra-eel there were good knowledgeable sections for e.g. those for whom Allah sent Musa alaihi salaam to rescue them from the oppression of Pharaoh. But there were many who were extremely disobedient to the Prophets alaihim salaam. Even they killed many of them. The Holy Quraan gives in detail the blessings given to them and the disobedience that they showed. They were also punished with exemplary punishments, for e.g. a tribe was changed into apes because they didn't respect "Saturday" which was a holy day for them. They disobeyed the Command of Allah to abstain from catching fish on Saturday. So they were cursed and were changed into apes/monkeys!!!



From the above statement you will understand that the Prophets were sent to them to follow the religion Islam in total. But, of course, Tawheed has been the bases of the religion Islam at all times and by all the Prophets. Jesus also was from among those Prophets. Allah created him miraculously and showed them a unique miracle that Eisa (Jesus) alaihi salaam spoke to them when he was a new born baby in the lap of his mother. He was given Injeel (the Gospel) but it didn't have the law. So Eisa alaihi salaam had to teach them Gospel as well as Tawrah because the law was in the Tawrah.


Tawheed was the bases and that included to follow the laws and Commands of Allah. Tawheed means to believe in the absolute Oneness and Uniqueness of Almighty God, but the practical proof of the faith of Tawheed is given by acting upon the Commands and Laws of Allah. All these teachings were included in the duties of Eisa alaihi salaam. The Jews, as usual, turned against him and made a plan to kill him, but they couldn't reach him as Allah lifted him up to the heavens.

You had said that Jesus was sent to guide people towards tawheed. What I'm trying to get at is that the Jews of Jesus' time were staunch monotheists. You'd be hard pressed to find any instance of idolatry amongst them. So why was Jesus sent to them according to your understanding?

Secondly, you said he was given the Injeel. In what way was it given to him? Do you believe an angel recited to injeel to Jesus and he recited it verbatim to his followers?

Third, what did the injeel contain that was different from the Torah?

Fourth, why did the Jews according to you attempt to kill Jesus?

[OmAbdullah]

You had said that Jesus was sent to guide people towards tawheed. What I'm trying to get at is that the Jews of Jesus' time were staunch monotheists. You'd be hard pressed to find any instance of idolatry amongst them. So why was Jesus sent to them according to your understanding?

Secondly, you said he was given the Injeel. In what way was it given to him? Do you believe an angel recited to injeel to Jesus and he recited it verbatim to his followers?

Third, what did the injeel contain that was different from the Torah?

Fourth, why did the Jews according to you attempt to kill Jesus?

The questions are irrelevant.

No time for irrelevant questions.

[M.I.A.]

Speculative answers are speculative..

If Jesus AS turned up today, what would he preach to the still staunch Jews?

The comparison between America and the Roman empires influence over the Jews of the time can be made... Can it not?

Although I'm no historian.

Same day, different "@&*

..lol, can't even get that right.

[Sojourn]

The questions are irrelevant.

No time for irrelevant questions.

Just because you can't answer does not mean it's irrelevant.

If the Islamic paradigm is that Prophets are sent to guide people towards Tawheed, it wouldn't make sense for God to send a prophet to a people that are already staunchly monotheistic, does it?

We Christians know why Jesus was sent to the Jews, and it wasn't to teach them monotheism. So your argument against Jesus calling God "Father" is moot.

[OmAbdullah]

Just because you can't answer does not mean it's irrelevant.

If the Islamic paradigm is that Prophets are sent to guide people towards Tawheed, it wouldn't make sense for God to send a prophet to a people that are already staunchly monotheistic, does it?

We Christians know why Jesus was sent to the Jews, and it wasn't to teach them monotheism. So your argument against Jesus calling God "Father" is moot.

You Christians, have many conjectures which a normal wisdom cannot accept at all. You have countless contradictions in the human made additions to the Divine Books of Allah. I don't have time to show you the terrible shameless accusations in Bible, on the great prophets of Allah. You also said that Jesus was sent to be crucified (in that ruthless way) for the forgiveness of all mankind. According to this belief of you, all those killers who are killing and have been killing innocent people, are forgiven and according to your belief, even the killers of a great prophet Jesus are also forgiven. This belief is very shameless and very ruthless. Only due to this ruthless belief of yours, now the Christians and Jews are killing numerous innocent people because you have made the law that Jesus was crucified for their sins so all these killers are forgiven!!! This faith of yours is far from Allah's Justice and is a terrible black accusation on Allah WHO is High above any defect.


How can you say that the Jews were monotheistic??? Didn't they worship cow? Didn't Samree make a calf for their worship and tell them that it was their god? Wasn't Samree punished for that sin when he used to burn if a person came close to him, so he was running away from people and saying, "don't touch me"???
Did not the Jews make Uzer the son of Allah???

If you say that Jews were monotheistic and Jesus was sent as God to them because the Jews didn't need to be guided to Tawheed, then why were so many other prophets sent to them. you cannot deny the coming of so many Prophets to them, Jesus was only one of them, Explain.


This truth is very much proved to normal wise minds that Jesus was a human being and a Prophet of Allah, and that God (Allah) is very High above all human defects. All human beings including Jesus are the creation of Almighty God Allah While Allah (Almighty God) is the ONLY ONE CREATOR.

Allah is the One Unique God, has no son, no relative and doesn't need a son. This belief of the Christians is the biggest of the sins and anyone who died with this sin shall always be burning in the Hell-Fire.

[crimsontide06]

Even if Jesus said "Father" , the connotation of "Father"(in Aramaic) over 16 hundred years ago does not mean the same thing it means today...

"My Father whom is in heaven" i.e...My Master, my creator....So yes, he could have said "Father" but it was not meant to be taken literally.

Just like when he is called "son of God"...this just means he was a devout religious person who was a servant of God.

[OmAbdullah]

Even if Jesus said "Father" , the connotation of "Father"(in Aramaic) over 16 hundred years ago does not mean the same thing it means today...

"My Father whom is in heaven" i.e...My Master, my creator....So yes, he could have said "Father" but it was not meant to be taken literally.


Just like when he is called "son of God"...this just means he was a devout religious person who was a servant of God.

As a Muslim you must keep away from the words "father and son" regarding the faith of Tawheed of Allah. We shouldn't put ourselves in the everlasting trouble in the life hereafter, by using these misleading words.

[OmAbdullah]

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent,the Merciful

Here is the translation of the verses 88---95 of surah Maryam:


88.And they say: The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son.

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said)a disastrous thing.

90. At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

92. When it is not appropriate for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son.

93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.

94. He has enumerated them and counted them a [full] counting.

95. And every one of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).