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ardianto
02-13-2015, 08:37 AM
:sl:

We can meet and gather in this forum because we use internet.

But are you sure that Muslims are allowed to use internet?. If you say yes, please show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslims are allowed to use internet.

I am waiting.
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sister herb
02-13-2015, 09:02 AM
Interesting question. Normally people wonder what kind of things are allowed to do as using internet, what not. This article considers about reading the Quran (also) via internet:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...on-smartphones

Since 2008, Awqaf has been issuing fatwas through its "Ifta centre" in Abu Dhabi in response to questions about what is permissible under Sharia law.

"You are to read [the Quran] using whatever means possible, for that is better than not reading at all, and you will be rewarded greatly for doing so," the fatwa said.

It also said since "we have gadgets that make searches easy", they should be used for the benefit of Islam, such as finding and reading verses from the Quran and Ahadith (Prophet Mohammed's sayings), and reliable Islamic information.

Reading the Quran on PCs, laptops and the internet is also allowed.
But anyways, I am not a scholar - I just read that article from the internet.
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Abdullahh
02-13-2015, 09:44 AM
The Internet is a tool just like a screwdriver, wrench, gun, knife, etc. It can be used to do good things, and/or bad things. It's up to you to decide how you use it. If used properly, then it is not haram in my opinion but of course I could be wrong.
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greenhill
02-13-2015, 11:48 AM
Wow, so sudden this question...and I had to double check as I was quite surprised that it came from you, br. Ardianto ;D

Like are we allowed to use modern transport? Loudspeaker systems (in our masjids), let alone money and other things we have taken for granted in our daily lives..

I think it has to do with intentions..


:peace:
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ardianto
02-13-2015, 01:16 PM
Is there no any of you who can show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslim are allowed to use internet?. Okay, I will show you something.

.

.

Internet did not exist in the era of Rasulullah (saw). Of course you will not find any ayah or hadith about internet. I know it. But why I asked you to show me ayah or hadith about internet?. Because I know you cannot show me ayah or hadith like this!.

So do not easy to be fooled by someone who ask you "where is the evidence from Qur'an or hadith that ........ ", because this question is a trap. The person who asks it know that you cannot show ayah hadith which he ask. Then it will give him a chance to push you to follow his opinion.

You must aware of this, okay?. :)
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sister herb
02-13-2015, 01:27 PM
^^ He made a trap, and the trap said "snap" when we entered it. :embarrass
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ardianto
02-13-2015, 01:56 PM
Deed or action are shared into to category. First is Ibadah, or act of worship. Second is Muamalah, or deed/act in relationship between human and human. Using internet is not placed in category of Ibadah, but placed in category of Muamalah.

The principle of Ibadah: Everything is haram, unless there is evidence that allow it.. We should not do act of worship that not taught by Rasulullah (saw).

The principle of Muamalah: Everything is halal, unless there is evidence that disallow it.. Trading is halal because there is no prohibition for it. But riba is haram because there is ayah that prohibit it.

Using internet is halal because there is no prohibition for this. But of course, visit porn site in internet is haram because there is prohibition to watch porn whatever its form.

What made me create this thread is because often enough I found (in internet) people ask "Where is the evidence that we are allowed to do that?". And I notice, all of these question are related to Muamalah, not Ibadah. The right question for Muamalah matter is "Where is the evidence that we are not allowed to do that?".
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greenhill
02-13-2015, 02:14 PM
It was a trap set by br. Ardianto after all... no wonder I did the double check. ^o)

But fair point. . . And I like the explanation. Jazakallah khair.

:peace:
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Eien
02-13-2015, 07:30 PM
ardianto, you should have waited longer to hear other responses! Still, it was fun. Thanks :)
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BeTheChange
02-13-2015, 08:44 PM
Jazahka Allah brother point taken :-)
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ardianto
02-13-2015, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Eien
ardianto, you should have waited longer to hear other responses! Still, it was fun. Thanks :)
If I waited longer then someone would realize and told me "Ardianto, you already know that there was no internet in the era of Rasulullah. So there is no ayah or hadith about internet!". Then I would lose the surprise element.

:)
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OmAbdullah
02-26-2015, 10:48 PM
We don't have ayaat or hadeeth for every thing, but we are given the principles. The internet is only a tool which can be used for good or evil things. We are encouraged to do good and are forbidden from evil deeds. So we should use the internet for good only.

We cannot say that there is no ayat in the Quraan about internet on the bases that in the past there was no internet. At the time of revelation of the Holy Quraan, there were no cars, buses, airplanes or mountain-like ships, but the Quraan has got verses which point towards these things. There may be verse or verses about internet but we couldn't find them.
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Karl
02-28-2015, 02:45 AM
If the Quran listed all the things you can do it would be bigger than the planet. It lists all the forbidden. So the internet is permissible as it is not listed as haram in the Quran.
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Fainoz
02-28-2015, 05:49 AM
I'm not sure if this is your intention but often this is the argument used for bidah.

however the difference is that innovations related to tech or means are permissible.

The haram bidah is that which is added into the religion, and presented as an act of worship. Such as adding extra rakat in the sunnah salawat. Or adding a new holiday which was not celebrated by the Prophet Salla Allah Alayhi Wa Sallam.
And Allah subhana wa taala knows best.
Salams
I
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Lavitz
02-28-2015, 07:09 AM
I have a shaikh once that responded to such a question by asking: What is the evidence that tomatoes are halal?

His point is that there are general rulings in Islam in which many rulings fall under. In this case, the ruling used for both tomatoes and internet is that "everything is halal until proven haram."
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Abz2000
02-28-2015, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:sl:

We can meet and gather in this forum because we use internet.

But are you sure that Muslims are allowed to use internet?. If you say yes, please show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslims are allowed to use internet.

I am waiting.
What about motorbikes?

And [He created] the horses, mules and donkeys for you to ride and [as] adornment. And He creates that which you do not know.

Quran 16:8
One may wonder if the bold part refers to biological creation or technological - the answer is in the verse below:

That has created pairs in all things, and has made for you*ships* and cattle on which ye ride,*

(* سورة الزخرف *, Az-Zukhruf, Chapter*#43, Verse*#12)
And His are the*ships*sailing smoothly through the seas, lofty as mountains:
*
(* سورة الرحمن *, Ar-Rahman
Chapter*#55, Verse*#24)
He has given many things as a mercy and benefit for mankind and has forbidden injustice:

Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the*shipsthrough the ocean for the benefit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail subservient between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise

.*(* سورة البقرة *, Al-Baqara, Chapter*#2, Verse*#164)
Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for His servants, and the things, good, clean and pure, (which He hath provided) for sustenance?
Say: They are, in the life of this world, for those who believe, (and) purely for them on the Day of Judgment.
Thus do We explain the signs in detail for those who understand.
Quran 7:32 [/quote]

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."


The above verses are evidence, however though the below verses cannot be used as such You'll maybe note wondrously that both the messages sulaiman (pbuh) sent via the hoopoe are very short, they fit in tweets, and arrive at destinations before your glance returns to you:

15.*We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon: And they both said: "Praise be to Allah, Who has favoured us above many of his servants who believe!"
16.*And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
17.*And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.
18.*At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
19.*So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants."
20.*And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees?
21.*"I will certainly punish him with a severe penalty, or execute him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence)."
22.*But the Hoopoe tarried not far: he (came up and) said: "I have compassed (territory) which thou hast not compassed, and I have come to thee from Saba with tidings true.
23.*"I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne.
24.*"I found her and her people worshipping the sun besides Allah. Satan has made their deeds seem pleasing in their eyes, and has kept them away from the Path,- so they receive no guidance,-
25.*"(Kept them away from the Path), that they should not worship Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what ye hide and what ye reveal.
26.*"(Allah)!- there is no god but He!- Lord of the Throne Supreme!"
27.*(Solomon) said: "Soon shall we see whether thou hast told the truth or lied!
28.*"Go thou, with this letter of mine, and deliver it to them: then draw back from them, and (wait to) see what answer they return"...
29.*(The queen) said: "Ye chiefs! here is delivered to me - a letter worthy of respect.
30.*"It is from Solomon, and is (as follows): 'In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:
31.*"'Be ye not arrogant against me, but come to me in submission (to the true Religion).'"

32.*She said: "Ye chiefs! advise me in (this) my affair: no affair have I decided except in your presence."
33.*They said: "We are endued with strength, and given to vehement war: but the command is with thee; so consider what thou wilt command."
34.*She said: "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the noblest of its people its meanest thus do they behave.
35.*"But I am going to send him a present, and (wait) to see with what (answer) return (my) ambassadors."
36.*Now when (the embassy) came to Solomon, he said: "Will ye give me abundance in wealth? But that which Allah has given me is better than that which He has given you! Nay it is ye who rejoice in your gift!
37.*"Go back to them, and be sure we shall come to them with such hosts as they will never be able to meet: We shall expel them from there in disgrace, and they will feel humbled (indeed)."
38.*He said (to his own men): "Ye chiefs! which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?"
39.*Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns: "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council: indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."
40.*Said one who had knowledge of the Book: "I will bring it to thee before thy glance returns to thee!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !"
41.*He said: "Transform her throne out of all recognition by her: let us see whether she is guided (to the truth) or is one of those who receive no guidance."
42.*So when she arrived, she was asked, "Is this thy throne?" She said, "It was just like this; and knowledge was bestowed on us in advance of this, and we have submitted to Allah (in Islam)."
43.*And he diverted her from the worship of others besides Allah. for she was (sprung) of a people that had no faith.
44.*She was asked to enter the lofty Palace: but when she saw it, she thought it was a lake of water, and she (tucked up her skirts), uncovering her legs. He said: "This is but a palace paved smooth with slabs of glass." She said: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul: I do (now) submit (in Islam), with Solomon, to the Lord of the Worlds."
Here's how it works:
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ardianto
02-28-2015, 02:41 PM
Seem like some people miss my point. I created this thread to show the reality about some Muslims who use "where is the evidence" as trap in debate.

In example, there is question from anti-madhab group, "where is the hadith which mention that Muslims can follow imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi'i?". They really ask this question. Of course no one can show hadith like this because Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Shafi'i had not been born in the period of Rasulullah. And it give them advantage to go to the next argument "since Rasulullah never order Muslims to follow Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi'i, Muslims should not follow them".

Ridiculous?. Yes, but I really found this argument.

I have found many ridiculous argument that related with "where is the evidence", like "is there ayah or hadith which mention that we can eat egg?". This is argument behind fatwa that say eating egg is haram. Or "Where is ayah or hadith which mention that human can go to outer space?". This is argument of people who believe that human never went to outer space, despite the fact that few Muslims have ever went to outer space.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
What about motorbikes?
If you are in debate with someone who say that riding motorbike is haram, is possible he would ask you to show ayah or hadith that really mention "motorbike" in its text. This is behavior of some Muslims that I have noticed.
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Abz2000
02-28-2015, 03:08 PM
Lol i wasn't attacking you man!
I skimmed through the thread first and understood that you were trying to project the question of the hole in the ground toilet vs commode, i also wanted to show that we don't just go by hawaa but are commanded to judge with justice in light of Quran using sincerity and 'aql, and no need to get ur knickers in a twist coz the question was answered! :)

On the question of motorbikes i did write this:

...One may wonder if the bold part refers to biological creation or technological - the answer is in the verse below.....
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ardianto
02-28-2015, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Lol i wasn't attacking you man!
I know, bro, I know. So don't worry that I will angry because your post. :)
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Abz2000
02-28-2015, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I know, bro, I know. So don't worry that I will angry because your post. :)
No worries, i hope i didn't anger you unjustly.

No human being from Adam (pbuh) is perfect so we just gotta humbly admit that Allah is perfect and that repenting, submitting to Him, and being guided by His Laws and wisdom in sincerity and truth is the nearest we'll ever get to perfection.
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Samiun
03-01-2015, 03:49 AM
:sl: WOW this is an awesome post. I remembered having a discussion with a friend and he told me that following the Prophet :saws: is wrong because you are trying to be perfect and that is contradictory . This is unrelated(maybe), but I kinda have a feeling they're related as it is one of those weird questions. I don't even know how to respond, where to start I was just surprised as such beliefs. Then I said "Well we're TRYING to be like him, as it is impossible to be 100% like him" and he said "Exactly" what does that even mean?
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ardianto
03-08-2015, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Samiun
:sl: WOW this is an awesome post. I remembered having a discussion with a friend and he told me that following the Prophet :saws: is wrong because you are trying to be perfect and that is contradictory . This is unrelated(maybe), but I kinda have a feeling they're related as it is one of those weird questions. I don't even know how to respond, where to start I was just surprised as such beliefs. Then I said "Well we're TRYING to be like him, as it is impossible to be 100% like him" and he said "Exactly" what does that even mean?
:wa:

You can follow what someone has done, but you cannot change your personality into someone else's personality.

We can follow sunnah. But can we change our personalities into Rasulullah (saw) personality?.
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Abz2000
03-08-2015, 07:23 AM
“Abū Dardāʾ states that once when we were with the Messenger of Allāh (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)*and we were discussing that which was to occur (in the future),
the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) exclaimed,
‘If you hear that a mountain has moved from its place, believe it;
but if you hear that a man’s nature has changed, don’t believe it,
for he remains true to his inborn disposition.

.’حدثنا عبد الله حدثني أبي ثنا وهب بن جرير قال ثنا أبي قال سمعت يونس يحدث عن الزهري ان أبا الدرداء قال : بينما نحن عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم نتذاكر ما يكون إذ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم إذا سمعتم بجبل زال عن مكانه فصدقوا وإذا سمعتم برجل تغير عن خلقه فلا تصدقوا به وانه يصير إلى ما جبل عليه

The chain of the ḥadīth is generally free from criticism due to the soundness of all the narrators of the chain. There is, however, an omission in the chain between Zuhrī and the Companion, Abū DardāʾD, which leaves the*ḥadīth*severed (munqatiʿ) and subject to narrative criticism according to the principles of the*ḥadīth*scholars.Imam Ḥaythamī states: The narrators of the chain are all sound, except that Zuhrī never met Abū Dardāʾ*D. [7/116]Imam Sakhāwī therefore writes in al-Maqāsid: “The narration ismunqatiʿ*(severed).” He claims, however, that the meaning of the narration is supported by a number of witness-reports (shawāḥid): [1/73]


Some understood it in the context of qadr and the fact that things will play out as decreed.
Others have understood it to mean that certain traits of a person remain, they can only convert them to good use in place of bad.
I once heard the example of 'Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra) used,
The narrator explained that he had a harsh personality in jahiliyyah and that did not change in Islam.
He was however able to use it for the sake of Allah.
And Allah knows best.
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CalmPassenger
03-08-2015, 02:10 PM
strange...
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Insaanah
03-08-2015, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Samiun
:sl: WOW this is an awesome post. I remembered having a discussion with a friend and he told me that following the Prophet :saws: is wrong because you are trying to be perfect and that is contradictory . This is unrelated(maybe), but I kinda have a feeling they're related as it is one of those weird questions. I don't even know how to respond, where to start I was just surprised as such beliefs. Then I said "Well we're TRYING to be like him, as it is impossible to be 100% like him" and he said "Exactly" what does that even mean?
:wasalam:

I wonder whether your friend was slightly influenced by Christian beliefs, where God demands perfection, but humans cannot ever achieve perfection...(there is more detail and it is not just that, but I'm only keeping it to the point of what's needed for this thread, so no clarification/correction required by Christians on board please).

I remembered having a discussion with a friend and he told me that following the Prophet :saws: is wrong
If your friend believes that following the Prophet :saws: is wrong, then he needs to be aware that Allah tells the Prophet :saws: to tell us, in the Qur'an, to follow the prophet :saws:. The verb used, means to follow.

Say, (O Muhammad): "If you love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (3:31)

Allah also says:

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. (33:21)

It is the prophet who we should try to be like. He embodied all the excellent qualities we should have, and it is he who we should try to emulate. He is our role-model.

because you are trying to be perfect and that is contradictory .
Perfection has never been demanded of us, and we are not punished for being imperfect.

We are required to try our hardest and best to fear and obey God "So fear Allah as much as you are able and listen and obey and spend [in the way of Allah ]; it is better for your selves..." (64:16, part), and to obey the messenger He sent with His message, and we have been told which things are forbidden for us and what we should avoid. When we do those things that we shouldn't, then we repent and seek God's forgiveness, being truly sorry for what we have done, trying our best not to repeat it, and acknowledging Allah as being the only One on Whom we depend, for the forgiveness of our sins.

God is so Forgiving and relenting towards us, that He loves forgiving:

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them".

[Saheeh Muslim] Arabic/English book reference : Book 1, Hadith 422

That is not to say that we should deliberately sin, in fact we should resolve not to repeat past sins. However Allah loves forgiving, and this is to show how forgiving Allah is, even knowing that we will sin.

Latter part of the above taken from this post: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...ml#post1580962

Hope that helps a bit in responding to him, and Allah knows best.
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ardianto
03-08-2015, 10:20 PM
@sister Inshaanah

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

When I was kid my ustadz taught me about sunnah of eating, use three fingers. But he didn't teaches me that I must always use three finger when eating. If I must use spoon, I can use spoon.

However, nowadays I found people who teach sunnah as "Do what Rasulullah had done, and don't do what Rasulullah had never done". The second point is really confusing because it encourage Muslims to imitate the life of Rasulullah (saw), not just follow sunnah. Something that impossible. And indeed it cause reaction from the youth "How could I have life and personality like Rasulullah if my life and personaty are different than Rasulullah?".

So, the problem is in teaching method that confuse the kids.
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