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OmAbdullah
03-26-2015, 04:17 PM
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Main Cause of the failure of Muslims.


Muslims that are struggling hard for the Cause of Allah are failing again and again! Although they succeed, at some occasion, with the Help of Allah, but again they become weak due to lack of Allah’s Help. I think that the main cause of their failure is that they make pictures and videos. It is sad to see that the Muslims of the present era love camera and pictures and frequently make and spread videos. Allah’s Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم strictly prohibited making of pictures. So by making pictures and videos they disobey Allah and Allah’s Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم . As a result they deprive themselves from the Help of Allah!!!

If they abstain from making pictures and videos then I hope that Allah’s Help will come to the practicing and striving Muslims insha-Allah. Allah’s Promises are very true. Allahسبحانه و تعالى said in surah Al Fatah verses 22 and 23, the English translation is:

22.
If the Unbelievers should fight you, they would certainly turn their backs; then would they find neither protector nor helper.

23. [This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change.

The verse 23 has great satisfaction for us because this tells us about the principle of Allah which never changes. So it is we who are not holding fast to the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. If we hold fast to these two sources of Islam then surely Allah’s Help will come to us and then all enemies of Islam will run away.
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فصيح الياسين
03-26-2015, 05:08 PM
Not only pictures but much more. If muslim practice how companions did Allah's help be with them. Still in many occassions allah help is upon people. Who are pious
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greenhill
03-26-2015, 05:34 PM
It is my opinion that the main cause for failure is the widespread adoption of the 'western' education system as the standard. Degrees and Doctorates.

From there it spreads to the want of worldly things and the pursuit of it.

These pursuits include taking pictures etc for vanity sake, made acceptable through the culture of challenging and changing, forever pushing the limits, no right or wrong. All the foundation and training are provided by the curriculum.


:peace:
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MuslimInshallah
03-26-2015, 07:46 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,

Mmm, I wonder. Personally, I think that it is the corruption of the human heart that causes Muslims to be in a bad position today. From what I have read, well before the colonization of much of the Muslim world, there were a lot of problems, and these became so great that Muslims were weakened and fell to the conquerors.

While the negative forces in the world today are very real, I deeply believe that the first step to improving our world starts with ourselves. Each and every person needs to ask themselves what they are not doing right, and how they can improve. And I don't just mean cosmetic changes (smile. A scarf or a beard is very nice, but these are rather little changes, it seems to me). I mean those deep and difficult changes. (twinkle) Like getting on with that neighbour who is so irritating, or taking the time to listen to your daughter's chattering about her friends, or learning how to cook a healthy meal for your family- not just one. But usually. It seems to me that we need to work on these huge little steps.

Too often, we look for industrial solutions to our problems. Wide, sweeping measures that we hope will have some great and lasting impact. But we forget the little ones. It seems to me that we should look to our personal relationships, and build from there. This is what Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAWS) made clear to us: we start with ourselves, and those close to us, and we work outwards.

(sigh) I see young people who are so full of enthusiasm and light, try to make big and bold changes in the world… only to smack into a hard wall, and get discouraged. (mildly) Looking after those around you (family, friends, neighbours, and then community members, society at large…) may not seem very glamorous, and certainly it is unlikely to win you much recognition… But this is where we can really have an impact, and make a difference. (smile) And perhaps, in the long run, we can have a ripple effect, and make this world a little brighter for having been here.

(smile) And even if we do not eradicate world hunger, or injustice, or whatever (which we never can…), we can become the best people that we can be, the most pleasing to Allah. And this is a victory, even if all else looks like failures.

May Allah, the Sublime, turn our failures into victories.
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Scimitar
03-26-2015, 08:18 PM
those of you who are pretending to know the "main cause of failure for muslims" are taking wild stabs at the dark - I ask, how can you know such things? you consider on that which you think as the main reason? Do you not undrstand the variables involved and how your little human brain cannot compute the knowledge which Allah WILL NOT reveal to you until the day of judgement?

beware of your opinion - it could see you "fail" as a Muslim too.

Scimi
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saif-uddin
03-26-2015, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Main Cause of the failure of Muslims.


Muslims that are struggling hard for the Cause of Allah are failing again and again! Although they succeed, at some occasion, with the Help of Allah, but again they become weak due to lack of Allah’s Help. I think that the main cause of their failure is that they make pictures and videos. It is sad to see that the Muslims of the present era love camera and pictures and frequently make and spread videos. Allah’s Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم strictly prohibited making of pictures. So by making pictures and videos they disobey Allah and Allah’s Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم . As a result they deprive themselves from the Help of Allah!!!

If they abstain from making pictures and videos then I hope that Allah’s Help will come to the practicing and striving Muslims insha-Allah. Allah’s Promises are very true. Allahسبحانه و تعالى said in surah Al Fatah verses 22 and 23, the English translation is:

22.
If the Unbelievers should fight you, they would certainly turn their backs; then would they find neither protector nor helper.

23. [This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change.

The verse 23 has great satisfaction for us because this tells us about the principle of Allah which never changes. So it is we who are not holding fast to the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. If we hold fast to these two sources of Islam then surely Allah’s Help will come to us and then all enemies of Islam will run away.
The Main cause of our pitiful situation is because we have become distanced from the Quran and Sunnah, and have no desire to establish the Shariah of Allah Azzawajal.

Allah ta'ala says he does not change the condition of a people, until they change what is within themselves,

we need to Purify our hearts from the various diseases that have infected it, and return back to the Quran and Sunnah,

that is the Only way Allah ta'ala will grant us success in dunya and akhira,

:jz:
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OmAbdullah
03-26-2015, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
those of you who are pretending to know the "main cause of failure for muslims" are taking wild stabs at the dark - I ask, how can you know such things? you consider on that which you think as the main reason? Do you not undrstand the variables involved and how your little human brain cannot compute the knowledge which Allah WILL NOT reveal to you until the day of judgement?

beware of your opinion - it could see you "fail" as a Muslim too.

Scimi

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah,

You say these words because you are far away from the knowledge of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. I wrote this thread especially for some sincere scholars who seem to be struggling hard sincerely ( Allah knows best but it is my understanding about them.) I thought it may be that they take a lesson, stop from pictures and Allah helps them to their full success. But it seems like many consider this horrible sin of making pictures and videos to be not a sin at all. May Allah guide us all to follow the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , otherwise we will remain in all these fitnas and wrath of Allah will finally come on us as Allah has warned us in the last verses of surah Al-Noor. Please read and understand these verses.

In fact remaining far from the Holy Quraan, has made many of us ignorant from the position of a mo'min in the sight of Allah Almighty. Allah promised to make us ( Miuslims ) Al-Furqan if we try to reach that standard. Please read and understand the meaning and tafseer of the Holy Quraan to know what is Al-Furqan. This promise of Allah can be seen in Surah Al-Anfaal. I pray to Allah to make us all Furqaan, aameen.
,
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sister herb
03-26-2015, 10:04 PM
I am wondering whose are those muslims whose are fail? How we are fail?

And about camera and pictures, I think you now forget an important part of the science history from the islamic era. Those inventions of muslims created the base of many modern
techniques which we are using today - also when taking pictures and videos.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...im-scientists/
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ardianto
03-26-2015, 11:15 PM
:sl:

Main cause of failure of Muslims?. ...... Mentality!

When other people are working hard to fulfill their needs, Muslims don't do anything and just complain that their diplomas are not suitable for working fields.

When other people work hard to invent new technologies, Muslims just proud with their golden age without realize that this glorious past has gone.

When other people see hunger people they share their foods. While Muslims?. Just entertain them with "Allah will not give trial more than someone can bear", and let those hunger people still in hungry.

When other people try eradicate poverty, Muslims just make conclusion that poverty happen because Islamic economy system is not implemented without they do anything to help the poor people.

When other people realize a problem they try to solve this problem. While Muslims?. Again, play denial card, deny that they have problem.

Then, do Muslims really follow Islam?. Many of Muslims just follow sheiks with their own interpretation of Islam and condemn other Muslims who follow other interpretation as deviant, or even kuffar.


Open your eyes Muslims!. Open your eyes and see this reality!.
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OmAbdullah
03-26-2015, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I am wondering whose are those muslims whose are fail? How we are fail?

And about camera and pictures, I think you now forget an important part of the science history from the islamic era. Those inventions of muslims created the base of many modern
techniques which we are using today - also when taking pictures and videos.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...im-scientists/
Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah,

If you don't see or feel the failure of the Muslim Ummah of today then I will be really shocked. Today I remember a hadeeth shareef which says that the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم told the companions that the Muslims will be like a food in a tray and the kaafirs will be inviting each other to eat it. The companions asked, "Will we be few in number on that day (time)?"

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that you will be more on that day ( it means that the Muslims will be more at that time) but they will be like foam on the surface of ocean and their awe (رعب ) will be taken away from the hearts of the kaafirs and there will be the disease of wahan in their hearts.
The companions asked. What is the disease of wahan?

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that it is the love of this world and hate from the Hereafter ( or hate from death). Allah knows best the exact words of Allah,s Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم .

May Allah forgive me. I wrote it in my own words as I didn't have the book. The last words I forgot whether it was the hate from the Hereafter or from death. I request the readers to correct me in the hadeeth if they have the book.

Now I will come to my topic. Today our Ummah's status is exactly like that hadeeth. Our educated Muslims must use their observation power to know about the Ummah. Today we must weep on the situation of our Ummah.

This is very true that the Muslims had started Science. We see the name of Jaabir Bin Hayaan in the beginning of the Math books in USA. Similarly we remember the names of our Muslim Scientists in Chemistry and Medicine etc. But they always remembered Allah's Deen and they didn't make pictures to disobey Allah. Remember please that this horrible sin is calling the Anger of Allah on us. I pray to Allah to make us get rid of this sin before we die. Aameen.
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yahia12
03-27-2015, 02:47 AM
Genetics and culture. The northmen may be non muslims but you would be ashonished by their good manners och respect for all living things (adab). Meanwhile in Middle East......:hmm:
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greenhill
03-27-2015, 04:51 AM
Seems there are lots of points of views... but there is agreement, there is failure... only on what is the cause.. I still feel it is related in this day and age on the education system that trains us to be focused on worldly matters and not at all on spiritual growth.

:peace:
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 09:56 AM
I don´t see that the whole islamic ummah would become better one only if people stop taking photos and videos. That is too simple way to repair all our mistakes.
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 10:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
Seems there are lots of points of views... but there is agreement, there is failure... only on what is the cause.. I still feel it is related in this day and age on the education system that trains us to be focused on worldly matters and not at all on spiritual growth.

:peace:
If we don´t train ourselves to worldly matters too, islamic countries will leave uneducated and underdeveloped 3rd world countries and this is what someones call as failure. We should find balance between worldly and spiritual development.
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OmAbdullah
03-27-2015, 10:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I don´t see that the whole islamic ummah would become better one only if people stop taking photos and videos. That is too simple way to repair all our mistakes.
If you read my first post carefully, you will see that I have mentioned those Muslims who strive hard for the Cause of Allah. This means that up their extent, they try to follow Islam but they don't abstain from taking pictures etc. because they consider it lawful. But they suffer, and I am trying to explain that making pictures etc. is not a small sin.
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 10:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
If you read my first post carefully, you will see that I have mentioned those Muslims who strive hard for the Cause of Allah. This means that up their extent, they try to follow Islam but they don't abstain from taking pictures etc. because they consider it lawful. But they suffer, and I am trying to explain that making pictures etc. is not a small sin.
Salam alaykum

I understood your the first post but as I wrote, kind of reason is too simple one to explain our all failures. We should think more, what we do, not what others do. Being more carefull, more compassionate to others? Are we now? As brother greenhill wrote, our interest is directed to somewhere else than to spiritual growth. And this other direction is far more than only pictures.
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 11:13 AM
Other thing what comes to mind when we are talking about pictures (I am sure here have many discussions about them before) is what we are doing with pictures. If we make a picture and worship as it would be a god, is one thing and when we make a picture for other reasons, is it the another thing?

Discussions about pictures before (some of them):

http://www.islamicboard.com/new-musl...pictures+haram

http://www.islamicboard.com/advice-a...raw-paint.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...ing-haram.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/advice-a...ram-islam.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...11876-art.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...tos-haram.html
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M.I.A.
03-27-2015, 11:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
It is my opinion that the main cause for failure is the widespread adoption of the 'western' education system as the standard. Degrees and Doctorates.

From there it spreads to the want of worldly things and the pursuit of it.

These pursuits include taking pictures etc for vanity sake, made acceptable through the culture of challenging and changing, forever pushing the limits, no right or wrong. All the foundation and training are provided by the curriculum.


:peace:
the want of worldly things... i take it you dont mean establishing of empires.

i dont know how you imagine islams next golden age.


i think thats the problem, you take everyday things you use...we all use..

and say that they are evil or worth turning away from.

when its just a matter of using them in the correct manner.


...a Lamborghini is just a Lamborghini, unless its a batmobile.
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Scimitar
03-27-2015, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah,

You say these words because you are far away from the knowledge of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.
You're assuming too much... and now I will show you how YOU are lacking in knowledge on THIS very subject. In your OP, you wrote:

I think that the main cause of their failure is that they make pictures and videos.
Do you know who invented the Camera? Do you know who that man was and what else he invented? Do you know why he invented those things? DO you know where he drew his inspiration from?

The Camera was invented by Muslim Arab, who was a polymath and philosopher who made significant contributions to the principles of optics, astronomy, mathematics, meteorology, visual perception and perfected the scientific method... his inspiration was the Quran and Sunnah. His name was Ibn Al Haythm... and now to prove you wrong.

In relation to the capture of images or video from a camera - there are scholarly opinions which YOU are ignorant of, here I will enlighten you to your folly:

What you say about it being haraam to take photographs and keep them except in cases of necessity, and it being permissible to watch TV and videos if they are free of evils, is the view of a number of scholars, including Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) and the scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas, may Allaah preserve them. Secondly: The confusion that you mentioned was answered by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), who explained that pictures contained on a video tape and the like are stored in the form of electro-magnetic waves, hence they were regarded as permissible by those who do not regard photographs as permissible. He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Images made by modern methods are of two types: 1 – Those that are stored in a way that does not have any tangible or visible form, as was mentioned in the case of images, such as video tapes. There is no ruling on these at all and they do not come under the prohibition at all. Hence the scholars who forbid photographs printed on paper regarded them as permissible, and said that there is nothing wrong with them. It was said:

If a person wants to make these permissible images, then he is subject to the five rulings according to his intention. If he intends thereby to do something haraam, then it is haraam. If he intends thereby to do something obligatory then it is obligatory. It may be obligatory to make images sometimes, especially moving images. For example, if we see someone committing a crime that is a crime against a person’s rights, such as a murder attempt and the like, and it cannot be proven except by means of a picture, then in that case taking a picture is obligatory, especially in cases where pictures could tell the full story, because the means are subject to the same rulings as the ends. If we use this image-making to prove the identity of a person lest he be accused of a crime committed by someone else, there is nothing wrong with this either, rather it is essential. But if we take a picture in order to enjoy looking at it, this is undoubtedly haraam. End quote from al-Sharh al-Mumti’ (2/197-199).
The basis of your entire argument rests on the premise that photos and videos are haraam - but I have proven to you that you have no real knowledge on the subject and therefore, your premise in the OP is false. Further, you are now on the back foot without a premise, and your OP has collapsed.

next time you accuse someone of being unaware of Quran and Sunnah, or Islamic rulings on matters - do your homework - and DO NOT ASSUME anything.

Scimi
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ardianto
03-27-2015, 04:13 PM
Assalamualaikum sister nbegam.

It's better if you do not too fast to make conclusion that failure of Muslims caused by picture matter, especially because ulama are differ in opinion about pictures.

I live among Muslims, I know how are life of Muslims, and I found there are many problems among Muslims that caused by mentality and behavior matter. Example that I have written in my first post just few of many realities that happen in the Muslim world.

We would not know realities of ummah if we just stay at home or in masjid. [smile]
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ardianto
03-27-2015, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yahia12
Genetics and culture. The northmen may be non muslims but you would be ashonished by their good manners och respect for all living things (adab). Meanwhile in Middle East......:hmm:
It has nothing to do with genetics. But with culture?. ... Hmm ... hmm ... In some places Islam has mixed with culture and it make those Muslims cannot erase some traditions that become barrier for their life progress.
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فصيح الياسين
03-27-2015, 05:51 PM
Dear scimi bro do not qurell w her.... she is my sister and u are my bro. I cant see my bro and sis quarel upon .... say her politely even she not... manners are the backbone my dear... sorry if i said any tense which is meant to hurt u or anyone
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Insaanah
03-27-2015, 07:38 PM
:salam:

I do think we have to be careful in pinpointing a single x issue to be the main cause of failure of Muslims. At the golden age of the Muslims, the Muslims were drawing pictures with faces etc, not always for necessity, and that was during the golden age when Muslims prospered. This does not make drawing such pictures right, of course.

As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no hadeeth or statement of a scholar that says this, that pictures and photos are the main cause of Muslim problems. Rasoolullah :saws: said, in his farewell sermon, "I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray." (Ref http://sunnah.com/muslim/15/159) and in one version, "the book of Allah and sunnah of his prophet :saws: ).

If Muslims have a failure, it is failure to adhere to, and implement, the Qur'an and sunnah, and this was mentioned in the last paragraph of the opening post, which I do agree with. Again, not painting everyone with the same brush, but by and large, Muslim leaders etc. Encompassed within that, would be various different issues, including pictures. From what I understand, there are a number of scholarly opinions on videos, that allow them.

So yes, we should encourage that people don't draw pics etc, but also encourage action on other issues Muslims lack in, but we should of course, put that into practice ourselves first.

Remember, that we are brothers and sisters, and shouldn't perceive others to be far away from the knowledge of the Qur'an and sunnah, but should remind and help each other to adhere to it.

And Allah knows best, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.
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BeTheChange
03-27-2015, 09:44 PM
Asalamualykum my good people

We can talk about the problems we have but i personally believe we should be part of the solution and not the problem.

As my username states, BeTheChange - if we know what is wrong in our society let's start with ourselves and become the change that we want to see. In sha Allah. If they is a will there is a way in sha Allah and we are all still breathing and have been given a chance by Allah swa. So let's not procrastinate and start setting goals and changing old bad habits with new good habits in sha Allah.
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OmAbdullah
03-27-2015, 09:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Other thing what comes to mind when we are talking about pictures (I am sure here have many discussions about them before) is what we are doing with pictures. If we make a picture and worship as it would be a god, is one thing and when we make a picture for other reasons, is it the another thing?

Discussions about pictures before (some of them):
I am sorry to say that I wanted to click on "Reply with Quote" but by mistake I clicked "like". Any post that goes against Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , I can never like it.

Dear sister,

The duty of a Muslim is to obey Allah and Allah's Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , therefore, as Muslims we must accept what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said regarding the pictures. There are three hadeeth about pictures.

One hadeeth says that angels do not enter a house which has pictures or idols.

The 2nd hadeeth says that the pictures makers will be given the severest of punishment. They will be asked to put soul in the picture and they will not be able to do so, as a result of this they will be in the everlasting punishment.

The 3rd hadeeth says that the income that comes by selling pork, alcohol and pictures/idols is haram (unlawful).

Here we can see that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't say that pictures are prohibited for worshipping only. So we have no right to change the meaning of a hadeeth.
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Muhaba
03-27-2015, 09:59 PM
Hmmm a lot of evil sprouts from photos. Just consider immoral movies, magazines, and websites. These not only spread immorality and other fitna but also wastes people's time, hence keeping them away from other important things like learning deen. How much time is wasted on these. They are also one cause of the disintegration of society.
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
I am sorry to say that I wanted to click on "Reply with Quote" but by mistake I clicked "like". Any post that goes against Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , I can never like it.

Dear sister,

The duty of a Muslim is to obey Allah and Allah's Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , therefore, as Muslims we must accept what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said regarding the pictures. There are three hadeeth about pictures.

One hadeeth says that angels do not enter a house which has pictures or idols.

The 2nd hadeeth says that the pictures makers will be given the severest of punishment. They will be asked to put soul in the picture and they will not be able to do so, as a result of this they will be in the everlasting punishment.

The 3rd hadeeth says that the income that comes by selling pork, alcohol and pictures/idols is haram (unlawful).

Here we can see that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't say that pictures are prohibited for worshipping only. So we have no right to change the meaning of a hadeeth.
Salam alaykum

I don´t think that my post was against Muhammad. We should be the imams to understand the real meaning of the hadeeths and when we are not, we should listen the scholars. Hopely you read comment from br scimitar already.

:D I think he answered to you quite well already.

Sad you didn´t "like" my post but hopely you will read posts from those links.
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OmAbdullah
03-27-2015, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
:salam:

I do think we have to be careful in pinpointing a single x issue to be the main cause of failure of Muslims. At the golden age of the Muslims, the Muslims were drawing pictures with faces etc, not always for necessity, and that was during the golden age when Muslims prospered. This does not make drawing such pictures right, of course.

As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no hadeeth or statement of a scholar that says this, that pictures and photos are the main cause of Muslim problems. Rasoolullah :saws: said, in his farewell sermon, "I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray." (Ref http://sunnah.com/muslim/15/159) and in one version, "the book of Allah and sunnah of his prophet :saws: ).
The hadeeth of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is very clear. It says that He صلى الله عليه وسلم said, " I am leaving behind Allah's Book and my Sunnah. You will never be astray, after me, as long as you hold fast to these two." (Muslim)

The version that says about the Book of Allah only is not correct because it strengthens the concept of the rejecters of Hadeeth.

In fact I love the Muslims a lot. When I say direct words, my intention is to wake them up and divert them to the understanding of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.
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sister herb
03-27-2015, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
In fact I love the Muslims a lot. When I say direct words, my intention is to wake them up and divert them to the understanding of the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.
Salam alaykum

But have you enough knowledge for this too? Are you a scholar or imam? Where you have got your knowledge to divert others?
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OmAbdullah
03-28-2015, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You're assuming too much... and now I will show you how YOU are lacking in knowledge on THIS very subject. In your OP, you wrote:



Do you know who invented the Camera? Do you know who that man was and what else he invented? Do you know why he invented those things? DO you know where he drew his inspiration from?

The Camera was invented by Muslim Arab, who was a polymath and philosopher who made significant contributions to the principles of optics, astronomy, mathematics, meteorology, visual perception and perfected the scientific method... his inspiration was the Quran and Sunnah. His name was Ibn Al Haythm... and now to prove you wrong.

In relation to the capture of images or video from a camera - there are scholarly opinions which YOU are ignorant of, here I will enlighten you to your folly:

What you say about it being haraam to take photographs and keep them except in cases of necessity, and it being permissible to watch TV and videos if they are free of evils, is the view of a number of scholars, including Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) and the scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas, may Allaah preserve them. Secondly: The confusion that you mentioned was answered by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), who explained that pictures contained on a video tape and the like are stored in the form of electro-magnetic waves, hence they were regarded as permissible by those who do not regard photographs as permissible. He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Images made by modern methods are of two types: 1 – Those that are stored in a way that does not have any tangible or visible form, as was mentioned in the case of images, such as video tapes. There is no ruling on these at all and they do not come under the prohibition at all. Hence the scholars who forbid photographs printed on paper regarded them as permissible, and said that there is nothing wrong with them. It was said:

If a person wants to make these permissible images, then he is subject to the five rulings according to his intention. If he intends thereby to do something haraam, then it is haraam. If he intends thereby to do something obligatory then it is obligatory. It may be obligatory to make images sometimes, especially moving images. For example, if we see someone committing a crime that is a crime against a person’s rights, such as a murder attempt and the like, and it cannot be proven except by means of a picture, then in that case taking a picture is obligatory, especially in cases where pictures could tell the full story, because the means are subject to the same rulings as the ends. If we use this image-making to prove the identity of a person lest he be accused of a crime committed by someone else, there is nothing wrong with this either, rather it is essential. But if we take a picture in order to enjoy looking at it, this is undoubtedly haraam. End quote from al-Sharh al-Mumti’ (2/197-199).
The basis of your entire argument rests on the premise that photos and videos are haraam - but I have proven to you that you have no real knowledge on the subject and therefore, your premise in the OP is false. Further, you are now on the back foot without a premise, and your OP has collapsed.

next time you accuse someone of being unaware of Quran and Sunnah, or Islamic rulings on matters - do your homework - and DO NOT ASSUME anything.

Scimi
Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah.

May Allah bless you with the vast knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, aameen.

If camera was invented by a Muslim, then surely it was done to propagate Islam. It is camera which makes copies of the Islamic books very fast and now by fax and internet also the Islamic message can reach far and wide within very short time. This was the purpose of camera. But now .....?

Of course, camera is used to watch the criminals etc. Has this method decreased the crimes??? Is camera not used to spread crime by evil movies etc.? Before TV. there used to be immoral stories with songs on radios. It was not at all attractive and was not spreading immorality . Since TV. has come the whole world became full of crimes and immorality.

You have given the opinions of some scholars. You may be knowing that the scholars have differences concerning the pictures. I accept the opinion of only those scholars who follow Islam in accordance with the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Please remember that we will be questioned in our graves about Muhammadصلى الله عليه وسلم None of those scholars will come to protect us from punishment in our graves.

Allah سبحانه وتعالى said in the Holy Quraan: ... من يطع الرسول فقد اطاع الله

Whoever obeys the Messenger, in fact, obeys Allah...

surah Al- Nisaa verse 80

Therefore my sincere opinion to everyone is that yourself understand the Quraan and Sunnah. In one of my posts in this thread, I have given 3 ahaadeeth about pictures. Please read them and then decide, keeping in mind the grave and the Field of gathering in the Hereafter.
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فصيح الياسين
03-28-2015, 01:55 AM
Good debate.... are u scholor sis nbegam
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saif-uddin
03-28-2015, 07:18 AM
Brothers and sisters still arguing about the cause of our failure?

Nauzubillah min zaliq

Our success lies in following the Quran and Sunnah,

Let's not get into arguments about this matter, Allah tala and his messenger ﺻﻠﯽ الله ﺗﻌﺎﻟﯽٰ ﻋﻠﯿﮧ ﻭﺍٓﻟﮧ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ
have made it clear cut.

جزاك اللهُ خيراً‎
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Scimitar
03-28-2015, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah.

May Allah bless you with the vast knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, aameen.
Walaykum salaam, and Ameen, may HE return the same to you also, AMEEN.

format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
If camera was invented by a Muslim, then surely it was done to propagate Islam. It is camera which makes copies of the Islamic books very fast and now by fax and internet also the Islamic message can reach far and wide within very short time. This was the purpose of camera. But now .....?

Of course, camera is used to watch the criminals etc. Has this method decreased the crimes??? Is camera not used to spread crime by evil movies etc.? Before TV. there used to be immoral stories with songs on radios. It was not at all attractive and was not spreading immorality . Since TV. has come the whole world became full of crimes and immorality.
Your argument recognises that technology can be used for both good and evil uses.

In the case of the camera - you can use it for beneficial purposes or for reasons of vanity or some other useless reasons which serve no purpose except to massage the ego or worse...

...Does this make the technology haraam? You seem to suggest that it does. It's a very right wing stance you've taken, whilst knowing that Islam is the religion which takes the "middle way".

format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
You have given the opinions of some scholars. You may be knowing that the scholars have differences concerning the pictures. I accept the opinion of only those scholars who follow Islam in accordance with the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Please remember that we will be questioned in our graves about Muhammadصلى الله عليه وسلم None of those scholars will come to protect us from punishment in our graves.

Allah سبحانه وتعالى said in the Holy Quraan: ... من يطع الرسول فقد اطاع الله

Whoever obeys the Messenger, in fact, obeys Allah...

surah Al- Nisaa verse 80

Therefore my sincere opinion to everyone is that yourself understand the Quraan and Sunnah. In one of my posts in this thread, I have given 3 ahaadeeth about pictures. Please read them and then decide, keeping in mind the grave and the Field of gathering in the Hereafter.
You seem to NOT understand that the making of pictures is referred to as "image making" by "hand" - ie: sculpture or art representations of human beings and animals - or mythological creatures.

Whereas the Scholars agreed that the photograph is like a reflection one sees in a pool of still water - one which occurs naturally and is a reflection of reality - and not the interpreted bias of some artist or sculptor.

In relation to photographs, they can have beneficial uses as outlines in posts in this thread - but when people use these for the purpose of stupid thngs like "selfies" etc - then they are in danger of idolatry.

As for Ibn Al Haythm, he was a Muslim intellectual - if you want to know more about his invention of the camera - and what he thought about it - how he justified it etc - read about him. Why argue on a forum on a subject you really haven't explored in detail? In my first few posts I already showed you how you had no idea the camera was a Muslim invention, and that the man who invented it was a very famous Muslim academic who also formulated the "scientific method" which perfected the model Ptolemy pushed and overturned Ptolemy's shirk based model of the cosmos - and reconciled it into one which contained no shirk.

The reason I am making this point is so you can be aware that ibn Al Haythm was a God fearing man - and that by you calling his invention unislamic is a real slap to the face of a true Islamic hero and role model for many, whilst you are quite simply a nobody who has an opinion.

Learn to respect those you have taken issue with - especially if you know nothing about them - Ibn al Haythm was someone who very much contributed to the shaping of technology, medical breakthrough's, scientific methodology and a lot more besides - all because the Quran and Sunnah were his guiding light.

See, by your faulty logic - speakers should be haraam because people can play music through them - yet the scholars have unanimously agreed to allow the use of speakers in the masjids for adhaan, khutba and salaah... by that comparison, do you not see how faulty a premise you've let yourself get deluded into?

Scimi
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OmAbdullah
03-28-2015, 04:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Walaykum salaam, and Ameen, may HE return the same to you also, AMEEN.



Your argument recognises that technology can be used for both good and evil uses.

In the case of the camera - you can use it for beneficial purposes or for reasons of vanity or some other useless reasons which serve no purpose except to massage the ego or worse...

...Does this make the technology haraam? You seem to suggest that it does. It's a very right wing stance you've taken, whilst knowing that Islam is the religion which takes the "middle way".



You seem to NOT understand that the making of pictures is referred to as "image making" by "hand" - ie: sculpture or art representations of human beings and animals - or mythological creatures.

Whereas the Scholars agreed that the photograph is like a reflection one sees in a pool of still water - one which occurs naturally and is a reflection of reality - and not the interpreted bias of some artist or sculptor.

In relation to photographs, they can have beneficial uses as outlines in posts in this thread - but when people use these for the purpose of stupid thngs like "selfies" etc - then they are in danger of idolatry.

As for Ibn Al Haythm, he was a Muslim intellectual - if you want to know more about his invention of the camera - and what he thought about it - how he justified it etc - read about him. Why argue on a forum on a subject you really haven't explored in detail? In my first few posts I already showed you how you had no idea the camera was a Muslim invention, and that the man who invented it was a very famous Muslim academic who also formulated the "scientific method" which perfected the model Ptolemy pushed and overturned Ptolemy's shirk based model of the cosmos - and reconciled it into one which contained no shirk.

The reason I am making this point is so you can be aware that ibn Al Haythm was a God fearing man - and that by you calling his invention unislamic is a real slap to the face of a true Islamic hero and role model for many, whilst you are quite simply a nobody who has an opinion.

Learn to respect those you have taken issue with - especially if you know nothing about them - Ibn al Haythm was someone who very much contributed to the shaping of technology, medical breakthrough's, scientific methodology and a lot more besides - all because the Quran and Sunnah were his guiding light.

See, by your faulty logic - speakers should be haraam because people can play music through them - yet the scholars have unanimously agreed to allow the use of speakers in the masjids for adhaan, khutba and salaah... by that comparison, do you not see how faulty a premise you've let yourself get deluded into?

Scimi
Salaam and du'aa

Brother in Islam, I don't want to go into useless arguments and discussions. My duty is to convey the message of Islam sincerely. In other words this is the obligation on all of us to do amar bil ma'roof and nahi anil munkar. That is what I do on the forum.

All of the just brothers and sisters here can see our posts and they can decide with justice. I never accused ibn Al Haythm, rather I said that he must have done it for the propagation of Islam which is an obligation on us. Again I didn't accuse the technology, rather I said that picture making is haram and now our good Mulims,who otherwise follow the Islamic commands but don't abstain from pictures, are facing troubles. This is my point.

There are ahaadeeth which say that the hardest tests were given to the Prophets عليهم السلام

ًWe can think about the test of Younus عليه السلام he was enclosed in the belly of a fish. Again the hadeeth informs us that the greater a Muslim has taqwa the harder is the test given to him until he walks around without the burden of sin on his shoulders. Also we know from a hadeeth narrated by Ayisha rAa that by any trouble, sins are washed from Muslims. If a Muslim puts a small thing in a pocket and then he forgets its where about, he searches it and his sins are washed away from him during this search.

Keeping in mind the above information from the ahaadeeth, I can say that a very good Muslim, when makes such a big sin of making pictures, (because he considers it lawful), he/she/they go into sufferings. So as a Muslim this is my duty to inform them to abstain from this BIG SIN. If you don't want to accept the admonition, then it is up to you. This is the matter between you and Allah, I have nothing to do with it. But it is very strange that you did false accusations on me, which every reader can see.
I leave it to Allah, wa kafa billahi Haseeba.
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Scimitar
03-28-2015, 05:24 PM
Judging by your logic, you will say that to look in a mirror is haraam because you saw yourself :D

Ok, agree to disagree.

Salaam.

Scimi
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فصيح الياسين
03-28-2015, 06:59 PM
Its true that taking or creating pics of OBJECTS WHO HAVE SOULS are haram. And will be punished both who create or snap and other who been pictorized BY HIS OWN WILL.
I asked from my grand teacher today about it.. and he said it haram, i knew it was haram. But to confirm i asked from my grand teacher
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sister herb
03-28-2015, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Its true that taking or creating pics of OBJECTS WHO HAVE SOULS are haram. And will be punished both who create or snap and other who been pictorized BY HIS OWN WILL.
I asked from my grand teacher today about it.. and he said it haram, i knew it was haram. But to confirm i asked from my grand teacher
This is one thing but this thread started from the claim that pictures and videos are the main cause of the failure of muslims. I doubt it is not the main cause. The third thing is of course, what is the failure of muslims.

Many muslims fight against other muslims and this could be kind of failure. But what the pictures and videos have with it? Do they cause these fights? Many people in the muslim majority countries are poor, they are living in the 3rd world countries. Is the reason behind the uneducation of them pictures and videos? Or might here have some other reasons too?
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M.I.A.
03-29-2015, 02:39 AM
i dont understand?

it all seems like common sense stuff to me.

pictures and media are just tools, you have to give context to them, a story, a background?

and in that is the distortion or inaccurate reflection.


...sometimes even the literal truth is not the same as the TRUTH.

but that is where we make our choices right?


its like if someone says that the prophet muhammed pbuh was a great strategist..

because he introduced religion to a people who were not monotheistic,

rather than the Jews or Christians.. who had already received revelation and would have been a lot harder to convert or even to give counsel too. (some guy said that too me last week)


it may be debatable as truth..

but i would disagree simply because i think allah swt is over all things.

..and in that context it misses the point altogether!


maybe that is why we fail, because we are not worthy..

because what we consider success is not what allah swt considers success.


because most of you have grown up in a world of pictures and media and now you turn away from them rather than figuring out how to use them..

not because of any sort of submission to a western ideal..

but rather because most of the world sits infront of some form of media...


although maybe not books so much anymore.


well, ISIS have figured it out anyway... are they best to represent you?


also, hieroglyphs


it seems like the distinction between rulers and tyrants is a difficult one to make, depending on which side of the line you stand on..

so why would he give you success when you are not fit to lead or to follow?


...best we do is struggle along and in that is the proof and the method.


insert many and numerous quranic verses here..

and just as many that oppose my view.


...allah swt has need of none of us.
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فصيح الياسين
03-29-2015, 05:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
This is one thing but this thread started from the claim that pictures and videos are the main cause of the failure of muslims. I doubt it is not the main cause. The third thing is of course, what is the failure of muslims.

Many muslims fight against other muslims and this could be kind of failure. But what the pictures and videos have with it? Do they cause these fights? Many people in the muslim majority countries are poor, they are living in the 3rd world countries. Is the reason behind the uneducation of them pictures and videos? Or might here have some other reasons too?
Ya this is not only the cause much more than it. Simply still we following our nafs alot. Which causing faliure. Taking pics one of it. I just wrote this pic post to stop quarell.. i also belive alot of work to do upon ummah ,on my self.....
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eesa the kiwi
03-29-2015, 06:04 AM
seems to me ignorance of the deen is more of a contributing factor towards muslim faliure than taking pictures and Allah knows best.
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sister herb
03-29-2015, 10:05 AM
Here are many scholars whose spread the message of islam using videos. How this is possible if making videos is the main reason for failure of muslims?

:heated:

And what is this failure we are talking about? Could someone explain it?
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ardianto
03-29-2015, 02:00 PM
When I was kid my ustadz told me that as Muslim I must care on orphans and poor people. This is an order from Rasulullah. But after I grew up I see a reality that makes me feel very concerned. Majority of Muslims do not care to orphans and poor people!. They enjoy their luxurious life while their neighbor are dying in hungry.

This is just one of many realities in Muslim world that I have seen. I have seen Muslim who use Islam only to justify their wrong action. I have found ulama who issued fatwa only to satisfy the ruler. I have found Muslims who reject ukhuwah (brotherhood) and call other Muslims as deviant. I have seen .... I have found ......

There are many problems among ummah that really make Muslims fall into failures. But why we must forget these problems and regard that this failure caused by picture?. Ulama have different opinions in the matter of photography and video, but ulama have only one voice in the matter of helping orphans and poor people. Muslims are obligated to help orphans and poor people.

So, why can't we tolerate the different opinion on photography and video, and start work together to help the orphans and poor people?.
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OmAbdullah
04-02-2015, 07:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Its true that taking or creating pics of OBJECTS WHO HAVE SOULS are haram. And will be punished both who create or snap and other who been pictorized BY HIS OWN WILL.
I asked from my grand teacher today about it.. and he said it haram, i knew it was haram. But to confirm i asked from my grand teacher
Jazaka Allaho khaira for saying truth.
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OmAbdullah
04-02-2015, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
When I was kid my ustadz told me that as Muslim I must care on orphans and poor people. This is an order from Rasulullah. But after I grew up I see a reality that makes me feel very concerned. Majority of Muslims do not care to orphans and poor people!. They enjoy their luxurious life while their neighbor are dying in hungry.

This is just one of many realities in Muslim world that I have seen. I have seen Muslim who use Islam only to justify their wrong action. I have found ulama who issued fatwa only to satisfy the ruler. I have found Muslims who reject ukhuwah (brotherhood) and call other Muslims as deviant. I have seen .... I have found ......

There are many problems among ummah that really make Muslims fall into failures. But why we must forget these problems and regard that this failure caused by picture?. Ulama have different opinions in the matter of photography and video, but ulama have only one voice in the matter of helping orphans and poor people. Muslims are obligated to help orphans and poor people.

So, why can't we tolerate the different opinion on photography and video, and start work together to help the orphans and poor people?.
Assalaamo alaikum,

jazaaka Allaho khaira for good statement, but only 2 points from me:

1. The thread is started about the Muslims who do care about orphans and the poor, who abstain from hearing music, who are careful about hijab of adult females, who protect themselves from haram earnings, and who apply the laws of Allah in their families and houses. That means that they try their best to keep away from all those evils that the Muslim Ummah has fallen into. But they consider pictures lawful and thus go into troubles.

2. If the scholars differ about pictures, does Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم have any position in the sight of the Ummah???????????????????

Now no body has the right to fight with me. By Allah, excluding a few posts, all of the other posts of this thread have proved that the writers don't care about the saying and commands of the Final Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم otherwise they would have stopped arguing as soon as they read the 3 ahaadeeth about the pictures.

Is this not the worst fall of this Ummah that most of its members brutally reject the Commands of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم only because His Commands contradict with their lust desires.

The result is that the Ummah is in a very weak and disgraced state now, but think about the Al Aakhirah and let us fight ( all of us ) against nafs amaarah so that we and you do not fall in the ever-lasting Hell.
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MuslimInshallah
04-02-2015, 11:32 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,

Mmm, I'd like to preface my remarks by noting that I do not have a TV in my house, nor have I since the age of 20. After much consideration, I felt that its harms outweighed its benefits. I also don't generally take many photos. I prefer to live life rather than see it through the lens of a camera or screen of a phone. (mildly) However, I have seen some movies over the years, and since getting connected with the internet, I have seen youtube clips.

Is it wrong to watch any movies, take any photos, watch any youtube clips? I do wonder and ask myself this. (smile) As I wonder and ask myself about many things that I do. I think it's incumbent on a Muslim to keep checking in with his/her heart and keep looking for knowledge. All our lives.

However, I am very open to having someone disagree with me. Because I believe that while Allah's Word is Truth, and that His Prophet spoke truly… my interpretation of these sources may be only partially correct, or even incorrect.

The truly great scholars were not at all keen to pronounce fatawa. They understood the great burden that is placed on those who think to inform others of what is, or is not, God's Will. They understood that they would be held accountable for all that they said.

Which is why they used to end their opinions with the phrase: and only Allah truly Knows. (smile) This is my translation. (serious) Because Allahu a'lam doesn't mean Allah Knows better or best. Better and best are comparatives. And as nothing can compare with God… how can we use comparatives? This Arabic phrase is very unusual. It sounds almost incomplete… until you analyze what it is trying to convey: which is: only God Knows. We foolish humans don't Know. We have some dim understandings, like pale ghosts in the Radiance of His Living Light. But only He Knows.

Some things are very clear in the Qur'an. Be good to people. Be kind. Be just. (mildly) But how can we be good, kind and just in our daily lives? This is not always so clear. We must make the effort to figure out how to try to apply Allah's Teachings in our lives.

Are videos or photos THE reason Muslims are not doing well in this worldly life? Well, it seems to me that this is debatable. As is the interpretation that any video or photo is forbidden. Perhaps you are right on both points. (mildly) But perhaps you are only partially right? Or perhaps you are rather off the mark?

I don't know. Only Allah truly Knows. If you believe that all images are forbidden and you live your life accordingly, I completely respect your convictions and the effort you are putting into them. (mildly) But if someone disagrees with you, and tries to live their life in line with their own true convictions, then I also respect them.

May Allah, the Abaser and the Exalter, Help us to struggle towards Firdaws.
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