Religion of Peace?

[BelieverOfTruth]

Greetings,

I have seen so many terrible acts done in the name of Islam. I fully realise that many Muslims are against these acts, and I am grateful for that. But, when I read about Muhammad and the terrible things that he committed - particularly against the Jews, how can one claim that Islam is a religion of peace. More specifically, is Islam a religion of peace towards Jews, Christians, Infidels?

I have read the Quran, I have read the verses that are not so favourable towards the Jews - Surah 5:64, 7:166, 5:60, 2:65 and there are others. Muhammed truly hated the Jews, he called them apes and pigs, committed genocide against certain Jewish tribes, and that hatred lives on to this day. Why the hatred? Jesus taught the complete opposite. He taught us to love our enemies, Muhammed taught us to hate our enemies. Hatred does not bring peace, only love can achieve that.I believe it is so important that one loves first, even ones enemies, so that peace can be achieved, so that mistakes can be forgiven, but all I see in Islam is hatred. I can never accept a religion which preaches hatred.

An explanation to the above would be most welcome, I do not wish to be confrontational, after all we are all seeking the same thing - truth :)

Tom

[Abz2000]

Lolwutz.
Peace comes from submitting to Almighty God who has declared war on the enemies of God, Gabriel, Michael, and the Prophets pbut, it's only out of mercy that He gives us time to repent. When the respite is up, there can be no turning back of His just judgement. (too many prayers of complaint are going up for Him to keep peace.)

Another way Islam brings peace is that it creates harmony in self, family and community when all submit to Islam and establish Islamic governance, the Prophet pbuh didn't usually hate his enemies but fought against those who needed to but refused to submit to governance in light of what God has commanded and be saved from hell.
He pbuh would fight a tribe and when his companions would ask that he supplicate against them, he'd usually pray for God to guide them.

It is not a way of life that tolerates racism which comes in forms like tribalism and nationalism.
Priority is obviously given to those who submit to God's commands and not to criminals who rebel against the kingdom of God.
Tribalism was superseded after the first ministry of Jesus pbu"h" in preparartion of the universal guidance where God would be called the God of the whole earth (read your bible dude isaiah told you that a new law would come to judge the earth, jesus told you that he wasn't bringing you a new law but that the comforter after "him" would guide you "unto all truth" yup, "that prophet that should come into the world"). And you were told that the kingdom of heaven would be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (refer to matthew 21:43 if you please).

Is it proper to take the bread of the children and cast it to the dogs?
Rather the dogs get the scraps - innit? (refer to matthew 15:26 if you please).
The children metaphorically alluded to are no longer defined by racial identity but by their acceptance and observance of what God has revealed through His final Messenger Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, his family and his followers through eternity.
The dogs aren't necessarily non jews but rather those who reject the signs of God and yet come rolling out their tongue to the Prophets (who are sick of their stiff necked ignorance) when the sh*t gets thick. (refer to Quran 7:176 if you please).
You serpents, snakes, generation of vipers, etc arent the words of Muhammad pbuh,
Rather they appear to be curses pronounced on those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel on the tongue of Jesus son of Mary. (Refer to Matthew 23:33 if you please).

And on the tongue of david it appears to have been "dogs have encompassed me and the assembly of the wicked.....
" (refer to psalm 22:16 if you please).

Regarding the violence, one only needs to turn a few pages in the old testament (moses, joshua, david, (pbut) and kings?) or read about simon the zealot.....(may God be pleased with him), the sicariis, and other dragon slayer saints you so love to make clay statues of and adore on your knees (i seek refuge in God from such transgression).
The templars (poor upside down soldiers of antichrist) and the zionists are way past excess so don't even bother trying to appear shocked and awed.

Or maybe just google abdurrahman al awlaki, obama's praise of despicable burma's democracy and support for sheikh hasina's and mubarak's and sisi's lack of democracy.

Or maybe just read up on cia war crimes to wonder what rock you've been living under.

Claiming that it's a "religion of peace" (as if imagining that no single government on planet earth has soldiery or weaponry) and then debunking it is stupider than claiming that any kafir ruler is a man/woman of peace.
You get peace when you submit to God and accept the Quran as the ultimate guidance ok?

Otherwise it may be in the time of the son of man as it was in the time of noah.

It's amazing how Muslims have been tempered with both extremes with the advice to practice self restraint as much as possible, with the hint at how Allah checks one set of people with another in order to prevent the destruction of places where His name is mentioned in abundance.
Wa al hurumaatu qisaas
Google it.
It is indeed the faith and the patience of the saints and they that keep the commandments of God.
(refer to revelation 14:12 if you please).

Your post made me suddenly remember tupac shakur lol:

They claim that I'm violent, just cause I refuse to be silent
These hypocrites are havin fits, cause I'm not buyin it Defyin it,
envious because I will rebel against
any oppressor, and this is known as self defense
i show no mercy, they claim that I'm the lunatic
But when the sh*t gets thick, I'm the one you go and get
Don't look confused, the truth is so plain to see
Cause I'm the nigga that you sell-outs are ashamed to be
In every Jeep and every car, brothers stomp this
I'm Never Ignorant, Getting Goals Accomplished
The underground railroad on an uprise
This time the truth's gettin told, heard enough lies
I told em fight back, attack on society
If this is violence, then violent's what I gotta be
If you investigate you'll find out where it's comin from
Look through our history, America's the violent one
Unlock my brain, break the chains of your misery
This time the payback for evil **** you did to me
They call me militant, racist cause I will resist
You wanna censor somethin, motherf***er censor this!
My words are weapons, and I'm steppin to the silent
Wakin up the masses, but you, claim that I'm violent

Words of Wisdom
They shine upon the strength of a nation
Conquer the enemy on with education
Protect yourself, reach for what you wanna do
Know thy self, teach what we been through
On with the knowledge of the place, thenNo one will ever oppress this race again

No Malcolm X in my history text
Why is that?‘Cause he tried to educate and liberate all blacks
Why is Martin Luther King in my book each week?
He told blacks, if they get smacked, turn the other cheek

I don't get it, so many questions went through my mind
I get sweated, They act as if asking questions is a crime
But forget it, one day I'm gonna prove them wrong
Now every brother had to smother on the welfare line

The American dream, though it seems like it's attainable
They're pulling your sleeve, don't believe ‘Cause it will strangle yah
Pulling the life of your brain, I can't explain

Btw, the teachings of Islam are unabashedly clear and available to any who plese to read.
We don't have any that are marked top secret, you won't need to invoke the freedom of information act, and you won't need to threaten, harass or murder people like snowden and assange for publishing them verbatim, just shows that you recognise your crimes and hypocrisy and need to hide them from your own citizenry.

[BlueOwl358]

The first mistake that other people make is quoting verses in the scripture without looking at the context and using it as a benefit to false arguments. This is not a book you can tear pages from, this is an oral tradition with is narrated in an order. And pointing out a verse shows you have not properly read the revelation and thus the quote is invalid. You can't just say "I read, the music in whole" while just pointing out the one statement.

Here we go.

1) Context of 5:64
"Why do the rabbis and religious scholars not forbid them from saying what is sinful and devouring what is unlawful? How wretched is what they have been practicing... (Stated verse) And if only the People of the Scripture had believed and feared Allah, We would have removed from them their misdeeds and admitted them to Gardens of Pleasure. And if only they upheld [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to them from their Lord, they would have consumed [provision] from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them are a moderate community, but many of them - evil is that which they do. [5:63-66]

There is no hate you see, simple factual reasoning with simple cause and effect. You can't stick out the cause without ignoring a factual fact that is embodied by Christians themselves. If you don't accept the reasoning yourself, why argue the effect?

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”

If you take bread as a metaphor for peace and giving out peace, then you must also believe in the hard and fast law, for as the verse says, all that comes from the Mouth of God, including his judgement and his rightful hate, not just the bread.

2) Context of 7:166
"And when they forgot that by which they had been reminded, We saved those who had forbidden evil and seized those who wronged, with a wretched punishment, because they were defiantly disobeying. So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised." And [mention] when your Lord declared that He would surely [continue to] send upon them until the Day of Resurrection those who would afflict them with the worst torment. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful. And We divided them throughout the earth into nations. Of them, some were righteous, and of them, some were otherwise. And We tested them with good [times] and bad that perhaps they would return [to obedience]." [7:165-168]

I do not see the hate, there is equal judgement according to deeds. Some were good, some were bad, and even that, by acts and not blind hatred as you claim. Some were righteous, some were not.

I could keep on the context, but it gets tiring, so... More quotations!

"Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?"" [Luke 14:25-28]

You can find the EXACT same thing in the hadith. I mean it's like they said the same thing while standing in front of each other to the people.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 014:
Narrated By Anas: The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."

As for Mohammad (pbuh) hating Jews, well, we are told otherwise.

Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5380:
Anas b. Malik reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the People of the Book offer you salutations, you should say: The same to you."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 74, Number 275:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "If the people of the Scripture greet you, then you should say (in reply), 'Wa'alaikum (And on you).' "

This includes if that greeting is a good one, or an insult. But regardless, the return cannot be worse than the one received. So if we hear peace, then we must give peace.

But finally, all the Judgement comes down to God in His will, and God is perfect in His judgement.

Peace be upon ye.

0

[umairlooms]

one thing

the modern world has relegated religion to 'new thought' spirituality and religious leaders and prophets to 'dalai lama' or 'mandela' style do good=ers .
As cool as those people are, prophets are not here to do good, they are here to fulfill a purpose.

The purpose, in case of Muhammad PBUH was to reveal the final message.. a religion, a belief, a way of life. It encompasses everything, marriage, invocation, fasting, peace, war, missionary work etc.... Muhammad PBUH and the issue with SOME OF THE JEWISH tribes of medina was a political settlement and as gruesome as it is, that is war and often justice.

now we can make the argument that everyone should be FOR PEACE and NOT WAR and etc, but that is not the way the world works

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[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Tom, and welcome to the forum

Jesus taught the complete opposite. He taught us to love our enemies,

Indeed we are taught the greatest commandments; to love our neighbours as we love our selves, we can do nothing greater. Sadly, us Christians are not that good at following these commands, there seem to have been endless civil wars amongst Christians.

So how should Christians love all their neighbours, the atheists, Hindu, Muslim and even other Christians?

In the spirit of praying for peace with justice for all people

Eric

[Futuwwa]

What exactly is a "religion of peace"?

[Abz2000]

if one considers the term "religion" and realises that it's a translation of the term "deen" which means "way of life",
then realises that nationalism is also a racist and confused way of life in a global age,
then one looks for a "country of peace", God alone knows what standards they plan to measure by.
the Quran refers to "deen al haqq" which means "way of life which is truth".

lol even the agent pope has a heavily armed security detail.

the only place you're going to look a "religion" of peace is on mountains and monasteries, and even then, it's impossible,
some monkeys ran away with my water bottle while i was at the cave of hira - they nearly took my camera bag too!
lucky i was praying or i'da chased 'em with a stick.

[Zafran]

Islam is both a religion for peaceful time and times of war. Like any other religion.

[SpanishOmelette]

Peace comes from submitting to Almighty God who has declared war on the enemies of God, Gabriel, Michael, and the Prophets pbut, it's only out of mercy that He gives us time to repent. When the respite is up, there can be no turning back of His just judgement. (too many prayers of complaint are going up for Him to keep peace.)

In that case, at what start did our Jihad end?
When did the Holy War become Unholy Terrorism?

[Abz2000]

In that case, at what start did our Jihad end?
When did the Holy War become Unholy Terrorism?

i haven't understood your question.
which of you, if his sheep was caught by a wolf, wouldn't grab a stick and chase it?
why the violence if you're in possession of a utopian "religion of peace"?
the only ones who try to compartmentaluze Islam and re-package it as a religion of peace alone are the ones unaffected by the injustices to which responses are required, or those using it as a tool to create pacifism and/or scepticism and confusion.

Islam consists of submission to Allah, the body, the soul, the word and the sword.

[M.I.A.]

You could probably not find people with cause to hate Jews more.. And yet even then.

http://news.sky.com/story/1546896/pa...ter-wrong-turn

So who has to forget the incident?

Sure not as black and white as I make it sound but whatever you work towards.

[Abz2000]

tell your religion of peace story to the descendants of these pilgrims and they'll tell you what they think:
most people know it was the british government darling "the honourable east india company" who provided the intel and the mercenaries.

Every was born in England's*West Country, but little else is known about his early life. He served in the*Royal Navy*from 1689 to 1690, likely participating in several battles of the*Nine Years' War*(1688–1697).
Following his discharge from the navy, Every began*slave trading*along Africa's Slave Coast.

In 1693, he was again employed as a mariner, this time as*first mate*aboard the warship*Charles II, which had been commissioned by England's ally,*Charles II of Spain*(the ship's namesake), to prey on French vessels in the*West Indies.

After leaving London in August 1693, the*Charles IIanchored in the northern Spanish harbor of*Corunna, where other vessels were assembling for the expedition. The crew grew discontent as*Madrid*failed to deliver a*letter of marque*and the*Charles II's*owners failed to pay their wages. On the evening of 7 May 1694, the restless sailors mutinied. With the*Charles II*renamed the*Fancy*and Every elected as the new captain, the*Fancysailed south en route to the Indian Ocean, soon plundering five ships off the West African coast.


In early 1695 the*Fancy*had reached the*Comoros Islands, where Every's crew raided a French vessel and narrowly escaped capture by three*East Indiamen.
The*Fancy*then sailed north to the*Arabian Sea, where a 25-ship convoy of*Grand Mughal*vessels was making the*annual pilgrimage*to*Mecca, including the treasure-laden flagship*Ganj-i-sawai*and its escort, the*Fateh Muhammed.

Joining forces with several pirate vessels, Every found himself in command of a small pirate squadron, including a*sloop*captained by English pirate*Thomas Tew.
As the pirates gave chase, the smaller vessels in the squadron gradually fell behind, and at some point Tew was killed in an engagement with a Mughal ship.[9]*
Every had more success, however, capturing the*Fateh Muhammed*and later overtaking the*Ganj-i-sawai, snapping its mainmast in a cannonball volley. Following several hours of ferocious hand-to-hand combat on deck, the pirates emerged victorious. Although many pirates were reportedly killed,[10]*the payoff was astonishing—Every had captured up to £600,000 in precious metals and jewels, making him the richest pirate in the world, equivalent to around £52.4m in 2010.

Of note is that after this raid, Avery and his crew tortured and killed a great number of the passengers and raped women of all ages. Some women stabbed themselves with daggers or jumped overboard, committing suicide to escape this fate.
The plunder of*Ganj-i-sawai*caused considerable damage to England's fragile*relations with the Mughals. In response to Every's attack, a combined bounty of £1,000—an immense sum by the standards of the time—was offered for his capture by the*Privy Council*and the*East India Company, leading to the first worldwide*manhunt*in recorded history.[

[Scimitar]

always a pleasure to read Abz2000 :)

Scimi

[SpanishOmelette]

i haven't understood your question.
which of you, if his sheep was caught by a wolf, wouldn't grab a stick and chase it?
why the violence if you're in possession of a utopian "religion of peace"?
the only ones who try to compartmentaluze Islam and re-package it as a religion of peace alone are the ones unaffected by the injustices to which responses are required, or those using it as a tool to create pacifism and/or scepticism and confusion.

Islam consists of submission to Allah, the body, the soul, the word and the sword.

My question is this; If the qur'an prescribes war on the kufr until there is no more fitnah, but doesnt say when to stop, when did the war on unbelievers become a sin, hated by scholars all over the world?

[Abz2000]

My question is this; If the qur'an prescribes war on the kufr until there is no more fitnah, but doesnt say when to stop, when did the war on unbelievers become a sin, hated by scholars all over the world?

it depends on whether there's a valid Islamic reason for fighting, also taking into account capabilities without being reckless or cowardly, and it also depends on the level of injustice being perpetrated and what type of response is ideal.
it's always better to try and give dawah where people are likely to see reason.
many scholars have in the past enjoined restraint due to the sincere calculations they made.
it was also sometimes the case that they were living under tyranny and tried to do the best given the situation to cause islah (mending).
and we are all aware of the fact that there have been a fifth column of hypocrites who will say anything if the price is modest, this has been the case throughout history, there are so many instances in what remains of the books that came to bani israil where there were some scholars who held on to the testimony of truth regardless of the consequences from any other than Allah, and some who did a lot of damage out of false prudence or greed.
one thing i have noticed though was that the people who were harsh against kufr were rarely condemned and the people who were too soft were often condemned, in the previous scriptures and in the Quran.

when trying to understand it, one needs to take into account the Makkan period, the Madinan period, the story of the two sons of Adam, the story of Talut, the story of Musa at the gates of the holy land and the narrations in the hadith regarding theQqqA times of fitnah plus much more.

there's always a balance.
we are however upon a time where the Quranic injuction of Jizyah will be abolished as foretold by the last Messenger of Allah pbuh and no way other than submission to the will of the Creator and sustainer of the heavens and the earth (Islam) will be accepted as compensation.

i wonder if johnny english will be left scratching his head and wondering if the Quran was or is wrong......
welcome to the 21st century johnny :)

[vipin]

9:29(al tawbah)

29. Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth-from among those who received the Scripture-until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

a muslim can fight with anyone who has not believed in quran? it gives command to fight. that is exactly the violence is all about. i dont think islam is not peaceful religion at all. this verse specifically despise unbelievers as inferior beings and should pay tax, willingly or unwillingly. when it becomes unwillingly is it not suggesting violence? how can islam a peaceful religion with these kind of thoughts? just asking to clear my doubts. i could not understand it.
consider 9:36
36. The number of months, according to God, is twelve months-in the decree of God-since the Day He created the heavens and the earth, of which four are sacred. This is the correct religion. So do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight the polytheists collectively, as they fight you collectively, and know that God is with the righteous

fight the polytheists. it is a command given to muslims to fight the polytheists. they include christains as polytheists. also, they expect polytheist to fight back. how can it be a religion of peace? this is specifically asking for war between muslim against christains, hindhus,... when you fight it becomes violence and there is no peace. peace means no war, no fight, a harmony. if it says have peace with unbelievers then i could say islam is peaceful.

i didnt read entire quran. this is just my view point. i didnt mean to harm anybody. i am trying to learn quran with a postive mind.

vipin

[Abz2000]

Then read it.

[Futuwwa]

By quote-mining religious scriptures, you can prove just about anything. Here, I'll show you how it's done:

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.
-Jesus, Luke 19:27

[Abz2000]

That was the new testament sent to temper the old testament and which none can and none did practically implement in the real world, it appears to have been preparing people for the Law to come.
In the west, the idea of a common depraved westerner telling all at confession and the uncertainty of whether the frustrated priest is able to take all those psychological assaults without manhandling himaelf for the sake of release is just all too real.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...sgiyaoyff.jpeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zX0e_QuLhE
Then reading the blood curling violence in the old testament leaves one's neck hairs standing on end, the angels mentioned in ezekiel (pbuh)'s book make my eyes go big!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9yP20WPeUw

the Quran and the guidance of Islam is like the rider with the black horse and the just balance which you'll find mentioned in the book of revelation.

inceremental updates.....

7But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble*in*judgment.
8For all tables are full of vomit*andfilthiness,*so that there is*no place*clean.9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?*them that are*weaned from the milk,*anddrawn from the breasts.
10For precept*must be*upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little,*and*there a little:
11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.12To whom he said, This*is*the rest*wherewith*ye may cause the weary to rest; and this*is*the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little,*and*there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
From Isaiah 28

"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;-
for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil;
he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure);
He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them.
So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,
- it is they who will prosper."
Quran 7:157

[Futuwwa]

deleted post

Oh, so you're saying context matters, and that individual Bible quotes taken out of context can give a misleading picture?

Did it ever occur to you that the same might be the case for the Quran?

[Abz2000]

it is a faulty understandng to take "religion" as an isolated compartment of life where you pray to God personally and run government according to the corrupt ways abhorred by God, but somehow justify it all by separating "church" and "state" so thay the "state" with it's armed forces and monopoly on violence carries out punishments based on UN-Godly statutes while sanctioning strip clubs and usury, and the "church" claims exclusion via total abstention.
it is a dichotomy, especially when one considers in depth the meanings of the parables and statements -even in the new testament.
if the human body is the church and state of being which is the Kingdom of God, it puts all aspects of responsibility (mosque, state, self, community) upon the son of man (Adam), the body is not a kingdom divided but flesh of man, word of God and spirit of God combined.
to attempt to separate between those aspects would ensure that such a kingdom falls, if every individual falls in such a fashion, the day of judgement would be upon us.

verily religion (way of life) in God's sight is Islam.
we don't preach non-violence in the Mosque whilst our president electrocutes, gasses, and lethally injects people, we establish the rule of God as prescribed in the Quran and sunnah , the only time we refrain from enforcing a statute is when we know that that is what God wants and will please Him - such as the suspension of stoning in the case of Mary the chaste, or the cutting down of trees in the case of Banu Nadir.
or the case where Prophet Ibrahim pbuh was going to sacrifice his own son because he thought that was what God wanted, and sacrificed a lamb/sheep/goat/lawful cattle when he knew that it was a replacement from God and that it was all a test of submission.
He overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb though he loved not his own life or that of his own son above God - even unto death.

[vipin]

hi,

Luke 19:27 jesus was telling a story.

i agree individual quotes from religious text taken out of context can give a misleading picture.



in fact jesus taught to love enemies.

here in 9:29, 36 (al tawbah) . it is commanding to fight. it looks like message of violence not a message of peace. why fight based somebody's faith?

what is the meaning of 9:29, 36 according to you?

[Abz2000]

i am speaking totally sincerely when i assure you that the previous two posts of mine answered the questions for any person endued with intelligence and that you appear to be baiting.

in fact jesus taught to love enemies.

you know very well that the above is advice given to temper the rigid law of retaliation practised by the jews of the time.
God confirms the law of retaliation in the Quran and also gives advice to forgo the right when it is conducive to do so.

if you still prefer to stubbornly argue, i theoretically advise anybody who claims to be christian to demand that their leaders destroy all weapons and fire all police and soldiery, if anyone claiming to be christian takes up the sword, that he/she should be killed by the sword.
see if it works, if you acknlowledge that it doesn't then acknowledge that the previous tests are superseded by the revelation of the Quran.

you can't just install service pack 2 by itself, you need a working operating system to install it on.
think not that i have come to void the law but rather to fulfil it.
even then, the previous operating system became vulnerable to major hacks and was rendered obsolete and was superseded by an updated full and final version which has updates, cancellation of jizya, abolition of cross worship, etc.

***

Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord.
Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave.
I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave.
And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses.
Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you.
I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.
Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.
*(Qur’an 3: 49-51).

2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember*that*which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid*wait*for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.*3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15

Operating systems previous to the Quran are disowned by the trademark Owner and no longer receive support, rather many of their features as exampled above are now illegal.

That was a people that hath passed away.
They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do!
Of their merits there is no question in your case
Quran 2:141

The verse from the chapter "repentance" revealed by God which you quoted above confirms that idolatry is a crime, just as it was a crime from the time Adam was placed upon earth, a crime when the people of Noah were destroyed, a crime when the ten commandments were revealed, a crime when Moses threw down the tablets and commanded the israelites to kill each other, a crime when Abraham broke them, a crime when God made ezekiel dig through a wall, a crime when herod tried to install a statue near the house of the Lord at beth El and was prevented from doing so by the advice that it would push the Israelites into the camp of the zealots, and shall be a crime until the last day.
On the scale of crimes, it is amongst the most henious and is something which provokes the jealousy and wrath of God unless refrained from.
get it?

now please finish reading the Quran and then pose your questions, that way you will be able read it without false bias and indignation, will be more enlightened and less prone to rejecting the truth out of pride.

let not a split with me make you reject the guidance that God has updated for you and prescribed upon you.

[Karl]

Greetings,

I have seen so many terrible acts done in the name of Islam. I fully realise that many Muslims are against these acts, and I am grateful for that. But, when I read about Muhammad and the terrible things that he committed - particularly against the Jews, how can one claim that Islam is a religion of peace. More specifically, is Islam a religion of peace towards Jews, Christians, Infidels?

I have read the Quran, I have read the verses that are not so favourable towards the Jews - Surah 5:64, 7:166, 5:60, 2:65 and there are others. Muhammed truly hated the Jews, he called them apes and pigs, committed genocide against certain Jewish tribes, and that hatred lives on to this day. Why the hatred? Jesus taught the complete opposite. He taught us to love our enemies, Muhammed taught us to hate our enemies. Hatred does not bring peace, only love can achieve that.I believe it is so important that one loves first, even ones enemies, so that peace can be achieved, so that mistakes can be forgiven, but all I see in Islam is hatred. I can never accept a religion which preaches hatred.

An explanation to the above would be most welcome, I do not wish to be confrontational, after all we are all seeking the same thing - truth :)

Tom

Well the Christians have not been pro Jewish and peaceful throughout history either. And you have to put things in context, the Jews he disliked were the bad ones. The trouble is you are getting caught up with labels. The USA is the worst warmongering and murdering state in history but not all the Americans are evil. Let's say the Prophet was here today in the Middle East and being bombed and droned and given a really hard time by the USA. What would he say about Americans?

It is very hard to be peaceful when you are under attack. Islam is peaceful not pacifist.

[vipin]

hi all,

slowly understanding your points...:statisfie

you guys have more knowledge than me. but still i just want to clarify things.

jesus said love your enemies. i think it is practical. as an individual person i should not retaliate and pray for my enemies.

when it comes to governmental level, what should we do? i never thought of it. thanks for bringing that in to my attention. will i try to find answer for that.

American government has lot of good things ;Dand did lot of bad things :embarrass

usually everyone in world know only about their bad side but they have done good works too.

not all americans are bad, majority is doing evil stuffs. but there is a minority which is huge in number lives according to scripture. they do good works a lot. lot of christian missionaries are from america even today. they do a holy life.

majority of americans are gone too bad that is sad part. there are many in other parts of world who try to copy that which is sad. what about philippianes majority are evil. what about dubai citizens many do sexual immorality. evil is there everywhere whatever religion they do. in india hindhus are doing much evil nowadays. it is evil time. not just americans. but i would say americans are more advanced in doing evil things. :omg:

i did read little more of quran today. it is so different from bible.

vipin

[vipin]

i still dont understand why do you people have to hate jews even if they are bad? it is hard for us christians to understand that philosophy. we have no hatred towards any religious group. we dont look it that way at all. i have lot of muslim friend. but only recently i took islam serious and started to read quran. it even mentions jews christains specifically. reminds torment in hell repeadtedly. says that christain and jews will reject it and show hard heartedness.

it is so strange language for me.

[vipin]

you know very well that the above is advice given to temper the rigid law of retaliation practised by the jews of the time.
God confirms the law of retaliation in the Quran and also gives advice to forgo the right when it is conducive to do so.

if you still prefer to stubbornly argue, i theoretically advise anybody who claims to be christian to demand that their leaders destroy all weapons and fire all police and soldiery, if anyone claiming to be christian takes up the sword, that he/she should be killed by the sword.
see if it works, if you acknlowledge that it doesn't then acknowledge that the previous tests are superseded by the revelation of the Quran.

hi abz,

we have right to defend ourselves. we have no right to retaliate. we have no right to hate. if a christian nation is formed, definitely an army is required to defend it. we are told to love enemy. that means we cannot just make war or be hatred because of their deeds to us. that is the meaning. in the past many wars had happen because of enemity. atleast according to the teachings of jesus we cannot make war out of hatredness. as a christain now, we are supposed to love our enemies. make friendship with those who hurt us.

thanks
vipin

[Abz2000]

what happens to turning the other cheek when a nation attacks you?

[Karl]

You have to remember that "love your enemy" was about the Jews dealing with the Roman Empire. When dealing with such a formidable foe love is the strongest weapon. If you fight them your whole tribe gets crucified and a reigning empire must have God on it's side to be so successful.

[Karl]

@ Abz2000 You seem to have a problem with nationalism, but you can't get more nationalistic than the Arabs and what is wrong with that?

[Abz2000]

You'd have to look to the kuffar as the source of nationalism then lay the blame at their door.
The Arabs had all but thrown off the shackles of nationalism under the united banner of Islam up until the time when the Rothschild controlled colonialist kafir hordes installed puppet regimes and puppet media empires with the condition of departing from the caliphate and running proxy wh0re fiefdoms, the transition of contents in the Arab magazines should give you an idea of how they worked it.
They appear to have utilized the age long tool of manipulating men with women, and women with new fashions and gossip columns, they appear to have used their research into the nature of females in the fact that they tend to follow projected trends and fashions more effectively than men - and attacked the psyche long before they took over the peninsula.


a classic example is al-fatat magazine by hind nawfal,


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Fatat_(magazine) (magazine)

these lot look like they come straight out of bullingdon club or skull and bones.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fatat (al-fatat movement)

al 'ahd society
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_Society

recent examples of how they worked are "frati neri p2" (vatican monks of darkness)

also punch into google: black white green red flag


one piece of advice, screw the ides of march, beware of bullhorn jones!!!
he won't give you solutions, just problems.

[Karl]

@Abz2000 So do you think the Palestinians should drop their nationalistic stance and leave Israel to grow and prosper? Would it be best if they dropped their tribal pride and evaporated into the world and maybe if they are really lucky they might get a job cleaning toilets for a fat American. Why do they need a nation, why can't they be good "global citizens"? Why don't they buy the cultural Marxism of international Jewry?

[JohnnyEnglish]

I have done as lot of reading in the past few weeks and I have formed the following views:

Muhammad was a tribal leader at a time when war between tribes was a way of life, literally a way of life; if one tribe had it and the other tribe wanted it they fought each other for it. It seems reasonable to presume that he and the other people of that time would presume that way of life would always be. From what I have read, the Quran describes a way of life, a way of living for those times i.e. the 6th century, fighting, killing, taking slaves and a mentality of us and them - dar al Islam and Dar al Harb. The problem is that Muslims must believe that the Quran is the unaltered words of God for mankind for all time and prescribes that Muslims adhere to that 6th century way of life (notwithstanding that the Quran was re-written by Uthman who destroyed the original!).

The next point on this topic I offer comes from reading and life experience.
It is clear that any group of people (nation of people e.g. North Korea) when gathered together and isolated can be taught and made to believe anything, absolutely anything. And, people want to hear views that support what they want to believe and will pick out the bits that support what they want to believe and ignore the things that argue against what they want to believe. And, Islam decrees that Muslims must isolate themselves from others and only live amongst other Muslims so that they are not exposed to other views. An example of that isolation is a 'sticky' thread on this forum called 'Islam Muslims and Violence' where someone has gathered together questions asked about Islam and violence and collected responses from 'scholars.' The Muslims on this forum reading that thread will believe that those scholarly views support the suggestion that Islam is a religion of peace, I read it and those scholarly replies with verses from the Quran supported the suggestion that Islam was NOT a religion of peace. (Unless you accept the Muslim concept of peace being that of submission to Islam or die (and go to hell)).

[Ahmed2014]

You and your north korea examples. The same can be applied to great britain and america and it's views of being an 'upright christian' or an atheist and feeling you're so called 'enlightened'

You clearly need to do A LOT MORE reading and I question where you were doing your reading because in Islam tribalism, racism and nationalism are rejected, even if some Muslims ignorantly still partake in it today.

The quran does not describe how to live in the 6th century it describes how to LIVE period. Statistically in the UK, British university educated women are the highest of those embracing Islam. Apparently they are in the 6th century according to your skewed and limited views.

Reading and studying led me to islam and it's got nothing to do with the 6th century, rather with the beauty and wholesome nature of Islam, it's a complete way of life and it doesnt' matter who you are, where you're from or when you're from or how old you are.

[JohnnyEnglish]

Reading and studying led me to islam and it's got nothing to do with the 6th century, rather with the beauty and wholesome nature of Islam.

I'd be grateful if you would send a copy of the stuff you've been reading and studying to Boko Haram, ISIL, The Taliban, Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, The Ayotolah of Iran and every other lunatic running around chopping of heads. Why have they all got different copies of the Quran than your peaceful one?

[BlueOwl358]

Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't really a tribal leader. He didn't lead a group of people to the point of revelation when he was in his forties, and even then, did not have a tribal based following. If you are gonna rebuttal, at least use your words better. He did not have any position of power in any way before his community formed. He was born into a tribe, then orphaned, and lived without becoming a leader of any sorts for forty years. After the long toils of persecution, he gained a city to hold his community. Hardly seems like the plan, a leader would have thought of by himself if he wanted to gain power.

Even if you move that piece aside, there is nothing in the Quran that would make me associate it with the 6th century and not the 7th, 8th, 14th, 19th, or even current century, since nothing in the Quran that referred to things present in that time, has not been present at this time. And what does destroying the oldest Quran, even mean. Do you even have any source for that? The oldest Quran we currently have and know of is most likely to be between 568 and 645 ad (which is a neat find in itself). Uthman (ra) became caliph in 644.

Then there is the point of isolation. Attempting to relate Islam with isolation is just unnecessary. Mecca itself, despite being in Arabia, was not a backward place as you might think. Trade links with Syria were certainly established and the faiths of Christianity and Judaism had been easily known. Yemen itself was linked to the red sea and ideas flowed. And I still can't see what this has to do with it. Muhammad (pbuh) was not an authoritarian dictator, pagans were not forced to become Islamic. Muslim leaders tried the utmost to not isolate themselves from the world, with their expansionist policies and attempts to control trade going across the Middle East. The major point of the Islamic conquests was to make a mark on the stage, find the technological ideas, and use them to support their own empire and give it prestige. If Muslims were isolationist, they wouldn't have gone to, I don't know, the edge of France!

Final thing, then, what do the stated groups even have related to representation of Islam! They have zero legitimacy or recognition. The whole basis of an Islamic state is a recognition and acceptance by Muslim scholars, something which has not even been done. Boko Haram can't can even read, they don't believe in books.

[greenhill]

i still dont understand why do you people have to hate jews even if they are bad? it is hard for us christians to understand that philosophy. we have no hatred towards any religious group. we dont look it that way at all. i have lot of muslim friend. but only recently i took islam serious and started to read quran. it even mentions jews christains specifically. reminds torment in hell repeadtedly. says that christain and jews will reject it and show hard heartedness.

it is so strange language for me.

It is a long story (about the Jews) but it is not directed to the ordinary Jew or Christian, more to the clerics.

In essence, Allah has warned in the Quran not to seek help from Jewish-Christian alliance, lo and behold, we have plenty of Muslim nations doing the opposite.

Stop there for


:peace: