Evidence against the Bible?

[bintYahya]

:sl:

Does anyone know of any legitimate proof for the claim that we say the Bible is corrupt?

I have done some amateur research on the subject but have found nothing that Christians would even consider to take as an argument.

[strivingobserver98]

:wa:

Search up "Ahmed Deedat", lot of lectures on Bible and Christianity.

Video about alterations, deletions and names in the Bible below.

[Snow]

Just look for all of the contradictions of the books.
Even the gospels don't agree about what Jesus had to drink on the cross.
That is just a tiny thing, they got wrong... at least three of them are wrong, if not all four of them. Since none of the four are the same.

[Trinity]

Here it is:

Quran 5:46-47
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

Therein means in the gospel. Which gospel? The Gospel that existed at that time... which is the same gospel we have now. I would therefore deduce that Muslims must believe in the Gospel message.

Please tell me the fault in my logic here. I do enjoy open and respectful debate --- :happy:

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[popsthebuilder]

:sl:

Does anyone know of any legitimate proof for the claim that we say the Bible is corrupt?

I have done some amateur research on the subject but have found nothing that Christians would even consider to take as an argument.

That's easy any part of the Bible that proclaims division or something that is not wholly peaceful is corruption by the hands of man with a hunger for greed and power. Description can be seen in most all Scripture of ancient times predating the Bible and after the Bible.

[Trinity]

That's easy any part of the Bible that proclaims division or something that is not wholly peaceful is corruption by the hands of man with a hunger for greed and power. Description can be seen in most all Scripture of ancient times predating the Bible and after the Bible.

Deedat uses Duet 18 to argue for Mohamed -- do you still believe him or find him creditable?

[popsthebuilder]

Deedat uses Duet 18 to argue for Mohamed -- do you still believe him or find him creditable?

Who?

Let me be clear for the sake of argument in the future. I base my knowledge of differing monotheistic religions based on their core Scripture. I do not base it on the word of any man Scripture alone.

[Trinity]

That's easy any part of the Bible that proclaims division or something that is not wholly peaceful is corruption by the hands of man with a hunger for greed and power. Description can be seen in most all Scripture of ancient times predating the Bible and after the Bible.

So, if someone said “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." would that be corruption? It most certainly looks like a divisive verse to me...

[popsthebuilder]

So, if someone said “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." would that be corruption? It most certainly looks like a divisive verse to me...

Not at all. The sword of God or Jesus speaks of his part of the full body armor which is part of the Godhead which is brought on by pure faith and sinless unity through God. The sword is not a literal violent thing is the sort of faith which brings about the destruction of sin through the word of God. It is not a literal violent thing in any way shape or form this is one of the many mysteries of the Bible that most do not comprehend. All battles that we are to fight as Christians are to be wholly peaceable and fought with the Word of God and not literally violence and bloodshed.

[Scimitar]

:sl:

Does anyone know of any legitimate proof for the claim that we say the Bible is corrupt?

I have done some amateur research on the subject but have found nothing that Christians would even consider to take as an argument.

Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says:
"..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men...."


"It is Human, Yet Divine," W Graham Scroggie, p. 17


Another Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says:
"...Not so the New testament...There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history..." - The Call of the Minaret," Kenneth Cragg, p 277

They represent experience and history... not the word of God.

Scimi

[BlueOwl358]

The point on the corruption of the Bible is that we have absolutely no proof that it is the Gospel, other than Christian beliefs. We have no proof these words, although known to be similar to the words of Jesus, have no support for being his exact words. If you replace the word corruption with "Textual Criticism", then that is a very common term that should be known by all Christians and is a valid field of study by scholars. It deals with inspecting the differences between all the Bible scripts and finding which one is more accurate, and this debate has been running for as long as Christianity has. There is no accepted canon first of all, there is no official guide to which books are included, and there is no official version of the Bible. There are differences between the four Gospels, and there are differences in the opinions of scholars as to who even wrote them and this includes Christians, Muslims, and atheists. On the other hand, there is no problem for non-Muslims to accept that the Quran was authorized by Mohammad (pbuh) himself.

Translation is also a major point. The books have gone through tons of languages, and this includes from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English and to so many differences. And words always get lost in translation. We don't have the original book, we have translations. We do have original Qurans. There is no validity, there is no authenticity, but there is conflict, there is error, and there are problems with the Bible. The question would be easier for some people if the word be "changed" instead of "corrupted". Have the words of scripture changed? Yes, that is a belief of Christianity concerning that the New Testament changed the Old Testament, among other things. At the end of it all, this is not what Jesus wrote, heard, or saw, and we have no need for it as Muslims. So we use the Quran as a verified document of our nation instead of the Christian scripture.

"And let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient." (Quran 5:46-47)

What this verse means, is to let the Jews and Christians judge by the part of the Bible that God revealed. And judge by all of what Allah has revealed. This revelation includes the Quran, so judge by the Quran. However, we do not know which parts are under the authorization of God or not, at least by itself. We do however have the Quran, and the word of God never changes. So that means, to judge by the Quran, and the parts of the Bible verified by the Quran, and not the whole of the Bible, and that is what Muslims do. And whoever does not do so is disobedient.

[M.I.A.]

even if its not corrupt, the number of denominations and divisions within its followers show that someone is wrong somewhere.

its not what you have but rather what you do with it.

So, if someone said “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." would that be corruption? It most certainly looks like a divisive verse to me...

...case in point.


and in parallel, your mentioning of bagdadi in another thread.. i have no idea how to spell.

[aamuslim]

The followers of the Bible probably would not consider proofs from the Qur'an and the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad, sallalahu 'alayhe wa sallam, that their scriptures have been tampered with. For them, the Bible itself would be a legitimate proof for the claim that the Bible has been being tampered.

Please note that Allah says:

[Quran 16:36]
And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)."

All the Prophets and Messengers of Allah came to their people telling them to worship Allah alone (without any partners) - this has been and still is the single most important commandment of Allah.

The Bible contains the Old Testament and the New Testament, their followers are in contradiction with their understanding of God. The first commandment given to Prophet Moses, alayhe sallam, see what his understanding was and that of his followers at their time - the Jews [Belief in one God (One -> One)], and then compare and contrast that with the Christians who came afterwards [Belief in One God (One -> Three)].

At the time of Prophet Moses, alayhe sallam, no one knew of the concept of Original Sin nor knew of a thing called the Trinity Doctrine. How did the original sin and the three-in-one idea come about in the first place? Christianity is built on the concept of Original Sin and Trinity, the concept which none of the Prophets and Messengers of God ever taught their followers, including Jesus Christ. Here's whats mentioned in the Bible:

[Deuteronomy 6:4]
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

[Mark 12:28-29]
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Allay says about Jesus, alayhe wa sallam, in the Quran:

[Quran 5:72]
Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.

[popsthebuilder]

The followers of the Bible probably would not consider proofs from the Qur'an and the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad, sallalahu 'alayhe wa sallam, that their scriptures have been tampered with. For them, the Bible itself would be a legitimate proof for the claim that the Bible has been being tampered.

Please note that Allah says:



All the Prophets and Messengers of Allah came to their people telling them to worship Allah alone (without any partners) - this has been and still is the single most important commandment of Allah.

The Bible contains the Old Testament and the New Testament, their followers are in contradiction with their understanding of God. The first commandment given to Prophet Moses, alayhe sallam, see what his understanding was and that of his followers at their time - the Jews [Belief in one God (One -> One)], and then compare and contrast that with the Christians who came afterwards [Belief in One God (One -> Three)].

At the time of Prophet Moses, alayhe sallam, no one knew of the concept of Original Sin nor knew of a thing called the Trinity Doctrine. How did the original sin and the three-in-one idea come about in the first place? Christianity is built on the concept of Original Sin and Trinity, the concept which none of the Prophets and Messengers of God ever taught their followers, including Jesus Christ. Here's whats mentioned in the Bible:



Allay says about Jesus, alayhe wa sallam, in the Quran:

Nicely put. If only Christians in general could realize that we are to follow the teachings of the man Christ and not necessarily worship him as an equal to God that is without beginning or end. This is all stated repeatedly in the bible yet ancient Roman Catholicism has skewed most Christian sects into something different from the actual teachings of Jesus, John the Baptist, Moses, and Enoch. This was deliberate and an attempt to neuter the power of true Faith through wide spread deception for selfish gains.