OK so as I understand, everyone seems to have a consensus regarding the need to disengage, at least a little bit, to avoid some kind of fitnah even though Islamically I’m allowed to do pretty much what I want with him. Now I like to think that, alhamdulillah, I’m a very reasonable person. I know I don’t have a monopoly on wisdom. I can listen to reason & logic. So, in my humble opinion, even if against my better judgement & confidence in myself for compartmentalization, and not to mention my trust in him, I will very strongly consider this collective advice from some much more experienced people than myself on this board.
But I just want to clarify one thing:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Alpha Dude
In fact, the proof of inappropriate closeness lies in your brother's girlfriend reason for leaving him. i.e. she said he was too close to you (note, it's good that she left, but focusing on the reason for leaving here) is ample proof enough that your relationship is a bit inappropriate.
Now, I've never heard of any girl leaving a boyfriend because he was too close to his sister. Have you? Exactly my point.
The biggest flag, I agree with Alpha Dude, is the fact that your foster brother's girlfriend felt threatened. Women understand their men when it comes to these things. If she felt there was a threat... I deeply suspect that she is correct. I have seen this play out in real life.
Honestly, his girlfriend had a hard time grasping this Islamic concept of siblinghood. You have to admit it’s not something that other cultures and religions are familiar with. Inside, she probably thought he was pulling a fast one on her & I can’t really blame her for it, and let’s just say that I didn’t go out of my way to allay her concerns either after she decided to make me a point of contention.
Sister MuslimInshallah, since you brought up the “bise”, I’ll give an example involving that to clarify my point. There are dozens and dozens of versions of the “bise” and it depends on the nature of the relationship of the concerned persons which one they are going to practice. For example, in one version, usually preferred by people who barely know each other, the cheeks & lips may not touch at all; you just put your cheeks close together and kiss the air quickly before backing off. But in another one, close friends can exchange two or more quick kisses on cheek with the side of the lips. Between these versions and versions for family members or people you really love you‘ve got tons of options, and if someone watching doesn’t know you’re family or doesn’t want to know then it can be misconstrued as something else entirely, like “heavy” flirting. For example, the lips can linger for a fraction of a second longer; you can grab and pull the person closer in a hug; both can grab each other’s upper arms as they do it & then instead of letting go, they can just stand close to each other with their faces inches apart and start talking about anything; like how good it is to see each other etc. etc., and this can go on for quite a few seconds actually. It’s a warm gesture between family & really close friends, but it can be misconstrued by someone who’s already skeptical. And to top it all, depending on the region or your brought up, you can go for up to even 5 kisses. So there can be a lot of drama involved.
We have a wonderful expression in French which I think describes her point of view adequately: “avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre et le sourire de la crémière”, which basically means that she thought he wanted “to have the butter, the money of the butter and the smile of the dairy girl at the same time’ Its English equivalent doesn’t do justice to its funny quality in the original.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Alpha Dude
Sister, nobody is judging or condemning you. We want to help you.
Well yeah, hugging and kissing a mahram is allowed but there's more to your situation than meets the eye. Don't you find it odd that all the people responding to your thread have reached the same conclusion? I tell you what made me think this - it's your tone and the manner in which you've described him to us. It's as though you are describing a lover (this is something you probably don't realise yourself).
And, from a man's perspective, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who had this kind of special relationship with a non-blood mahram. It just would not sit right with me. You have to think about the person you will marry too. Will he leave you due to your closeness to your brother too?
Brother Alpha Dude, don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical to differentiate between a non-blood mahram and a blood mahram when Allah gave them equal rights? It’s the first time I’m hearing of something like this. If a future spouse comes with this kind of an un-Islamic mindset, trying to doubt the relationship between his wife and her brothers then its better they not be spouses at all in my opinion.
As to how I described him; I don’t know, I would have thought that a romantic interest would be described very differently if romance novels are any indication to go by. My prose regarding him may have come across as excessive to people here, but, to the contrary, I personally felt that I couldn’t do him justice due to this language barrier & the need for compactness. I can’t conjure up with words worthy enough to describe how wonderful he has been to me in the course of these months.
format_quote Originally Posted by
MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum digitalent,
(smile) I understand how nice it must feel to have someone close in your life. Different cultures have different ideas of what is normal between family members. And I understand that in France, even with strangers, it is normal to kiss and be physically quite close.
Contrary to popular opinion, having close and warm relationships within the family doesn't lead to a greater risk of incest. Quite the contrary; incest is more likely where there is distance between family members. I have read that this is because when you grow up with someone, they are very familiar, and you are used to having a warm, but non-sexual relationship with them.
If you had been raised with this young man in a warm and loving environment, you could probably have had a pretty close relationship. You might have been able to lean on the sofa with him, and wear less clothing (still... I'd suggest limits), and have the relationship you are craving with a close family member.
But this has not been your case. While it seems that your families were close when the young man was an infant, from what I understand, he did not grow up with you. And this is a problem. I recall hearing a radio documentary about a mother who gave her son up for adoption at birth, and then he contacted her as an adult. And they went on to have a sexual relationship. It can happen.
The biggest flag, I agree with Alpha Dude, is the fact that your foster brother's girlfriend felt threatened. Women understand their men when it comes to these things. If she felt there was a threat... I deeply suspect that she is correct. I have seen this play out in real life.
But does this mean that you should cut your ties with him? Personally, I do not think so. Going from one extreme to another doesn't seem right, either, unless you are at risk of harm. Are you at such risk? I don't know. I think if I were you (as you said you have a close relationship with your mother), I'd ask your mother about what exactly happened all those years ago. What strikes me in your story is what is not said. What was your parents' and his parents' relationship? What happened? Where is your father? Where are his parents now? Why is she so afraid?
And if there is considerable risk, then you should distance yourself.
But if not, perhaps you could have a kind relationship with him. But I would recommend, as have others, that you not become too close with him until you are both married. Once you are well connected with your respective spouses, then perhaps you could be a little less cautious?
What would a kind relationship be? Given your circumstances, I'd not get together alone with him. But I would meet up with him in public. Give the "bise" as is habitual in France. You could help each other out when in need, as siblings would, but just not in a private setting. If he's sick in bed... ok, make him chicken soup. But have your mother deliver it for you. Do you see? It could be possible to be good to each other, but in ways that are less likely to cross lines. And if he can welcome you as his sister... why would he not welcome your mother as his mother?
(smile) I always wished I had an elder loving brother, too. And I also did not have the relationship with my father that I would have liked. But this was the life that Allah Gifted me with. (smile) And I have been Blessed with beautiful children, the rizq I need, the beauties of this lovely creation, and a mind and a heart that quest... All in all, I have many things. (smile) Allah has not Gifted you with siblings to grow up with. But that is ok. Because He has Gifted you with many other good things, has He not? (laugh) Do you know, my children sometimes wish (and rather ardently!) that they could have been an only child? They think sometimes that it would be so wonderful not to have to put up with their annoying siblings, or have to share anything, and to have all their mother's attention all the time...!
(gently) It is hard to restrain yourself from your heart's deepest desire. But this is what sabr truly is. Self-restraint. And yes, it is not at all easy. (smile) But Allah, you know, is with the sabireen...
May Allah, the One Who Knows, the Responsive, Guide you and Gift you with the insight and strength to do what is Pleasing to Him.
Sister MuslimInshallah, thank you so much for your detailed and caring reply. I hear what you’re saying. But I feel like I've come too far to go back to the kind of “kind” relationship that you’re describing, and it really feels cold as well from where I’m at right now. I don’t want cold and distant anymore when I have another option. I don’t feel like I’m at any kind of risk whatsoever, instead it’s the opposite that I feel.
The comment about sending chicken soup through my mother made me smile a little because I’ve already made a lot more standing in
his kitchen. So it’s going to be hard stepping back if I decide to do so, but as I’ve said, I’m going to give it a really hard thought after such an overwhelming consensus.
And so far as what I should do with my mother, since she’s not ready to consent to meet him, I’m cooking up a tentative plan to force her into this meeting. What I’m thinking is to try to soften the target for a couple of weeks while bringing him up to speed on how to best handle her & avoid pushing her buttons, and then, on the D-day, make him wait in the car all ready with a strawberry charlotte in hand outside the house before I suddenly drop it on her that he’s waiting outside right now! And if she still refuses, then I’ll just call him in whether she likes it or not! God, I’ve never pushed her like this before! Don’t know how she’s going to react. Hopefully she’ll consider it fait accompli and be civil with him instead of making a ruckus.
He's a bit of charmer, so I'm that will work to his advantage as well. For added effect, I’m going to manage the timing such that 10-15 mins into the meeting it’ll be time for a prayer, and according to the script, he’ll be like ‘which way is the qibla from here?’ because you know how punctual he is with his prayers, :D. That should also help create a good first impression.
Dang! My heart is pounding just thinking about this! Praying she won’t murder me afterwards :exhausted. If nothing else, then maybe she’ll be more forthcoming with information after this if she’s been holding back on me.
Any suggestions? :)
JazakAllah.
format_quote Originally Posted by
ardianto
You're welcome. Am I knowledgeable?. I learned many things from my colorful life. In other thread I've ever described myself as "lucky guy" because unlike many other guys who must struggle to get a girl, I was in position which the girls came to me, even my first experience which a girl fell in love with me happened when I was nine!.
I know, there are many men who dream to have luck like mine. But let me reveal something that maybe will shock people here but I am sure, will make people aware. My luck made me harassed by an older woman when I was teen, while few other older women tried to harass me but I could avoid.
It's happened because my own mistake. I let her to touch me because I thought her attention to me was not different than attention from a sister to her younger brother (she is not my relative). In the beginning maybe, but later I felt something different in her touch . Alhamdulillah, then I could avoid her before that's going worse.
I have two sisters. And yes, sometime I hug or kiss them, but still in normal limit and in certain situation. I never cuddle them when we watch TV together.
Young sister, to be honest, I am worry when I read how you cuddle him when you watch TV. I know that you see him as your brother. But you forget something that very important. He is not your biological brother and you didn't grew up together with him. So, there's no strong consciousness to avoid something wrong like biological sister and brother who grow up together.
You can love him as your brother, you can still be close with him. But try to avoid physical contact because this is very risky.
Okay?. :)
Brother ardianto, thank you so much for your words of wisdom. Please don’t worry; I’ll try to control my urges the next time I have them.:)
JazakAllah.
format_quote Originally Posted by
oasis123
goo.gl/TDxHLW
in the above link, some people are suggesting you to consult scholar or local mosque imam. I also suggest you the same.
Bro oasis123, thanks for the advice. But as I have said before, the nearest mosque that I know of is more than a couple of hours drive away and it’s not feasible for me to venture out so far. Also, I don’t really trust the people there; they always looked a little shady to me whenever I saw them.