My mother doesn't want me to have a relationship with my foster brother.Advice needed

[digitalent]

As-salamu alaykum,

I’m new here & I'm not sure how to start this but here goes. I’ve been going through a situation for some time now and I want some advice on how to resolve it. English is not my 1^st or even 2^nd language so please bear with me when I make an inevitable mistake, and it’s a wee bit long so I apologize in advance.

I'm a 19 years old Muslim girl and I live in France with my family. I'm the only child of my parents so I have always felt a little alone throughout my childhood. Growing up watching all the other kids enjoying and even fighting with their siblings always made me feel like I missed out on something great. And it doesn't help that I've always been a shy person and have never had many friends. I usually like to keep my head down and mind my own business. Also, there are very few Muslims in this area of the country. The only proper mosque that I know of is at least more than a couple of hours drive away. I think telling a bit about this background is necessary to understand the issue better.

There's this guy at the university that I attend whose family used to live in our neighborhood when I was an infant. We’re roughly of the same age. I personally don’t remember him from my childhood because I was too little back then, but my mom identified him by his name when I told her that there was another Muslim in my class. I later confirmed this from him as well, his family used to live in our neighborhood at that time. They left the place after his father was arrested for human trafficking. Anyway, the important thing is that my mother breastfed him intermittently for almost a couple of weeks back then. That’s what she herself told me when his name was brought up and she told me their story. Nevertheless, she strictly told me to stay away from him because of his family’s background.

Despite this, unbeknownst to her, ever since then I’ve gone out of my way and against my own nature to develop a very close relationship with him because I can’t help but feel like he’s my long lost brother, a sibling that I always wanted. I believe, from my understanding of Islam, that a foster relation developed between us in childhood when he was suckled by my mother which makes him my brother, my mahram, the only one that I know of. I’ve told him the reason of my unvarnished fascination with him & he too has responded to my advances very warmly & considers me a sister that he never had. In just a few months’ time things have developed such that I greet him every day in university with a hug and kiss to the cheek & spend most of my off time in between classes with him at his apartment which is near the University, unlike my house. We have so much fun playing games, studying & even arguing on silly topics together. He’s such a knowledgeable guy mashAllah that talking with him on any topic is always a learning experience for me. We go out to the movies and restaurants together a lot and every once or twice a week I also cook for him because I just love doing it for him. When I’m at his place I do take off my head scarf and relax like I’m in my own home because he’s my mahram, and I trust him. I’ve even taken naps in his bed many times during my off time between classes & have started keeping some of my stuff like clothes, hygiene products etc. at his place because I’m there so often.

I just want to point out how much of a positive influence we’ve both had on each other.

He is such a consummate gentleman with me. For example, he’s always opening doors for me, pulls chairs out, stands up when I enter or leave a room, is very protective, takes time out for me even when very busy etc. etc. I’ve never felt safer than when I am with him. He taught me how to drive and didn’t even say word when I trashed his car! My grades have gone up considerably because he’s been a great support to me; and all this has helped boost my self-confidence a lot. On my part, alhamdulillah, I take pride in the fact that because of me his haram relationships ended. His “girlfriend” thought we were too close & told him to choose between me and her, he said to her “Va voir ailleurs si j'y suis” i.e. “Go take a royal hike” Ha!

And I’ve at least managed to convince him to lead me in our own little two party congregational prayers whenever I’m with him and time for a prayer comes. And this is a guy who only used to offer Eid prayers before! I’ve come to a realization that I’ve become addicted to his considerations for me.

As you can well imagine, these things get out one way or the other. News of my close association with him reached my mother and she went ballistic & almost beat me up! She thinks either I’m having some kind of a sordid affair with him and/or he’s grooming me for some ulterior motive! She also doesn’t believe that there is any kind of foster relationship between us because she did not intend for it regardless of what happened, and even if she did, in her eyes, it only changes the charges on me from zina to incest, astaghfirullah; And irrespective of all the above, he’s going to traffic me out soon enough! Nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t care what his father did or didn’t do, he’s not his father. I know him & I trust him.

So basically she doesn’t believe me when I say that I’m safe & haven’t committed any sin at all. Now she’s threatening me to break off all contact with him otherwise she’s going cut off my university funding and send me to my aunt on the other side of the continent! And also call police on him for no reason whatsoever. I’m at a loss on how to deal with this. I don’t want her to be so upset and mad at me and think that I’ve become some kind of a harlot because I’ve not! It makes me cry to know that she doesn’t believe in me. But at the same time, I don't want to lose the relationship that I’ve developed with him. I don’t want to go anywhere. The only thing that I could think of was maybe if I could get him to meet & talk to my mother then she wouldn’t be so mad but she has totally rejected this proposal. I just don’t know what to do anymore.

Please advise.

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam,

That's quite an interesting and unique story and your English is quite good despite it being a third language, ma sha Allah.

I think in your haste to fill a void in your life, you acted a bit recklessly in introducing him into your life in the manner that you did. You should have thought of your mother's feelings too. She is trying to protect you.

Can you confirm that he was breastfed whilst he was under the age of 2? That's one condition of mahram relationship being established by breastfeeding.

[digitalent]

Wa alaykum salam, That's quite an interesting and unique story and your English is quite good despite it being a third language, ma sha Allah. I think in your haste to fill a void in your life, you acted a bit recklessly in introducing him into your life in the manner that you did. You should have thought of your mother's feelings too. She is trying to protect you. Can you confirm that he was breastfed whilst he was under the age of 2? That's one condition of mahram relationship being established by breastfeeding.

Thank you for the compliments bro, JazakAllah. He was actually just a few months old when it happened.

[Abz2000]

assalamu'alaikum sister,
it's obvious that you feel really close to him and the fact that you're mother's concerned and over-protective is pushing you to his side of the river.
one thing that i think everyone's wondering and is very relevant to the issue is:
do you sometimes find yourself attracted to him in more ways than a brother?
i mean in the sense of the psychological gaps that a potential spouse would fill for a female.
only you and Allah know the type of chemicals and energy involved, it might not necessarily be all the time but fleeting and quickly dismissed as waswas in order to continue to be close to him.
stopping to think about that issue and then rationalising it practically would probably answer which directionm you ought to take.
if you find that it is just as a brother who you feel comforted by and nothing more, why not ask your mom if she'll help you find a legitimate spouse and then you'll be complete and also less vulnerable in terms of future contact with him and maybe your mother will come to like him as the long lost son that he is.

btw ferrying people from one land to another on Allah's earth isn't haram in Allah's sight as long as it isn't for a haraam purpose.
And Allah has more right to be obeyed.

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[ardianto]

Wa'alaikumsalam

One important lesson that I've learned in my life is, if a woman was too close with a man, then she would fall in love with this man. I learned it from my own experience. It's happened few times. Even it made my first future wife decide to leave me. When I was young I ever made a promise with a girl. But my female close friend didn't want to lose me. It cause problem, of course. Finally my future wife decided to leave me, and I married my close friend (but then my wife passed away in 2013 due to breast cancer).

And I am sorry if I must say that my experiences made me familiar with attitude of woman who fall in love, and your your attitude toward your foster brother clearly show that you have special feeling on him although you try to deny it. Be honest, you don't want another girl being close with him, don't you?.

Young sister, if he was someone who is not related to you, then my advice is 'draw' him into marriage. But since he is your mahram due to breast feeding, my advice is put him in the right position, as your foster brother, because you cannot marry him.

It's okay if you love him as foster brother. However, in love like this you should not have a feeling to have him. You have to be sincere if then he wants to take another woman as his wife. You also must open your heart for another man who wants to take you as a wife.

Remind yourself that you cannot marry him. And try to make him realize that he cannot marry you, because probably he will have special feeling on you too. You can remind him through smooth way like tell him "Hopefully in the future you will meet a good girl and marry her", or "You know that girl?. If you want to have a wife, you should try to get a girl like her".

I know it's hard to change your special love to her into love as sister. But you must remember that you cannot marry him.

:)

[digitalent]

assalamu'alaikum sister,
it's obvious that you feel really close to him and the fact that you're mother's concerned and over-protective is pushing you to his side of the river.
one thing that i think everyone's wondering and is very relevant to the issue is:
do you sometimes find yourself attracted to him in more ways than a brother?
i mean in the sense of the psychological gaps that a potential spouse would fill for a female.
only you and Allah know the type of chemicals and energy involved, it might not necessarily be all the time but fleeting and quickly dismissed as waswas in order to continue to be close to him.
stopping to think about that issue and then rationalising it practically would probably answer which directionm you ought to take.
if you find that it is just as a brother who you feel comforted by and nothing more, why not ask your mom if she'll help you find a legitimate spouse and then you'll be complete and also less vulnerable in terms of future contact with him and maybe your mother will come to like him as the long lost son that he is.

btw ferrying people from one land to another on Allah's earth isn't haram in Allah's sight as long as it isn't for a haraam purpose.
And Allah has more right to be obeyed.

Bro Abz2000, I actually don’t know what it feels like to have a genetically related brother, only what it feels like to not have one. There is no benchmark to compare against. He’s the first & only experience that I have of something like this. Similarly, I don’t know the psychological gaps that you’re referring to because I haven’t yet had a spouse either. In fact, he’s the first man that I’ve interacted with at a personal level so you can say that he’s setting all kinds of benchmarks for me.

I can’t say anything about what I don’t know, but what I do know is that I whatever he’s done so far, whatever we’ve done so far, is something that I really cherish & which makes me glow inside out. I’m reminded of this hadith:

“On the authority of Wabisah bin Ma’bad (RA) who said: I came to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) and he (PBUH) said, “You have come to ask about righteousness.” I said, “Yes.” He (PBUH) said, “Consult your heart. Righteousness is that about which the soul feels at ease and the heart feels tranquil. And wrongdoing is that which wavers in the soul and causes uneasiness in the breast, even though people have repeatedly given their legal opinion [in its favour].”

But being very honest, I’ll concede that I have, at times, felt slight undercurrents of something akin to an amorous touch in our relationship along the way. For example, I absolutely loved it when he left his girlfriend for me. It still brings a smile to my face. But only because she had told him to choose between us, otherwise I hadn’t paid any attention to her till then. I didn’t even know her last name.

But you can’t always control your thoughts. Even if my thoughts sometimes slip but then choose not to act on them then it is as if they didn’t occur, right? Again I’m reminded of a hadith:

“Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Allah forgives my followers those (evil deeds) their souls may whisper or suggest to them as long as they do not act (on it) or speak.”

But honestly, I can’t really put a boundary on what can be construed as wrong or right when it comes to him. For example, if I had an overwhelming urge to cuddle up a little with him while watching TV, then even I don’t know why I had that urge. I just did. Maybe I was enamored by his decision to lead me in congregational prayer earlier in the day? Or maybe I just wanted to relax. You can’t say it’s bad because after all, I’m allowed to be open with him. What’s the point if I can’t even do that? You see?

I’ve so far never even thought about getting married. I want to complete my studies and what not before the time for that comes. Don’t you think it’s unfair and a zulm on me that I be expected to get married to be allowed to have a relationship with my brother? Why should I be singled out?

Come to think of it, wouldn’t he also be my wali for marriage since I don’t know anyone else eligible? I would have to need his approval for it whenever it happens otherwise my nikah wouldn’t be valid, right?

JazakAllah for your answer.

Wa'alaikumsalam

One important lesson that I've learned in my life is, if a woman was too close with a man, then she would fall in love with this man. I learned it from my own experience. It's happened few times. Even it made my first future wife decide to leave me. When I was young I ever made a promise with a girl. But my female close friend didn't want to lose me. It cause problem, of course. Finally my future wife decided to leave me, and I married my close friend (but then my wife passed away in 2013 due to breast cancer).

And I am sorry if I must say that my experiences made me familiar with attitude of woman who fall in love, and your your attitude toward your foster brother clearly show that you have special feeling on him although you try to deny it. Be honest, you don't want another girl being close with him, don't you?.

Young sister, if he was someone who is not related to you, then my advice is 'draw' him into marriage. But since he is your mahram due to breast feeding, my advice is put him in the right position, as your foster brother, because you cannot marry him.

It's okay if you love him as foster brother. However, in love like this you should not have a feeling to have him. You have to be sincere if then he wants to take another woman as his wife. You also must open your heart for another man who wants to take you as a wife.

Remind yourself that you cannot marry him. And try to make him realize that he cannot marry you, because probably he will have special feeling on you too. You can remind him through smooth way like tell him "Hopefully in the future you will meet a good girl and marry her", or "You know that girl?. If you want to have a wife, you should try to get a girl like her".

I know it's hard to change your special love to her into love as sister. But you must remember that you cannot marry him.

:)

Brother ardianto, you seem like a very knowledgeable person mashAllah. Thank you for your kind words.

Yes there are hard limits, I’m aware of that. Alhamdulillah I was raised with the right set of values and I know I have to stick to them. Mind has to be kept over heart. But even if, God forbid, as unlikely as it may be, I began to falter somewhere, I trust him to do the right thing because he knows he’s my brother and what’s at stake here.

About another girl getting close to him, I doubt that very much because as it stands right now, everyone thinks he’s already taken. But anyway, my reaction probably wouldn’t be very positive because I wouldn’t let him settle for anything less than the quality I think he deserves.

JazakAllah for your answer.

If there are any sisters out there reading then I would like to get their opinion as well, inshAllah. :)

[Alpha Dude]

But being very honest, I’ll concede that I have, at times, felt slight undercurrents of something akin to an amorous touch in our relationship along the way.

But you can’t always control your thoughts. Even if my thoughts sometimes slip but then choose not to act on them then it is as if they didn’t occur, right?

Sister, most of what you say in your post corroborates that you are getting too close to him in ways that should only be reserved for a spouse. By all means, treat him as a brother but don't go too far in your affection for him. He is not your husband.

For what it's worth, it is not normal for a sister to have amorous feelings towards a sibling. It's absolutely abnormal and if you have that kind of feeling and jealousy when the thought of another girl in his life comes up then that's a huge red flag that you've let this 'relationship' go too far in a wrong manner.

But honestly, I can’t really put a boundary on what can be construed as wrong or right when it comes to him. For example, if I had an overwhelming urge to cuddle up a little with him while watching TV, then even I don’t know why I had that urge. I just did. Maybe I was enamored by his decision to lead me in congregational prayer earlier in the day? Or maybe I just wanted to relax. You can’t say it’s bad because after all, I’m allowed to be open with him. What’s the point if I can’t even do that? You see?

Again, it's very unusual for brothers and sisters to cuddle up and watch TV together. It's simply not normal.

But even if, God forbid, as unlikely as it may be, I began to falter somewhere, I trust him to do the right thing because he knows he’s my brother and what’s at stake here.

Sorry to say it but your trust here is meaningless. There is nothing to say he wouldn't be the one faltering.

Bottom line is that you've confused a normal brother/sister relationship with that of a husband/wife relationship. Step back a bit and don't get too comfortable.

[oasis123]

Paradise lies under the feet of the mother. After Allah swt, the only person a good Muslim must obey is his/her mother. Below are some more narrations “He who wishes to enter Paradise through its best door must please his parents.” “A man or woman is bound to be good to his or her parents, even though they may have injured him or her.” Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (r.a.), the great-great-grandson of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have quoted Imam ‘Ali (ra) that, “disobedience to parents is a major sin.” He also stated that, “if a person looks at the face of his or her parents with wrathful eyes, despite the fact that injustice was done to him or her by the parents, his or her salah (prayer) will not be accepted by God.” “God has commanded that if anybody prays equal to the invocations performed by the prophets, such prayers will do no good if that person has been cursed by his or her parents.” It has also been related that the very first words which have been written on the Lauh-e-Mahfuz (The Heavenly Preserved Tablet) are: “I am God, and there is no deity except Me. I am pleased with those with whom their parents are pleased, and I am displeased with those with whom their parents are displeased.” ‘Ali ibn al-Husain (ra) is reported to have said: “The right of your mother on you is that you should know that nobody could endure the trouble and the conditions under which she protected you and nourished you with the juice of her life, and tried with her heart and soul to satisfy all your needs in relation to hunger, thirst, dress, etc. She passed sleepless nights, suffering anxieties. She provided you with shelter against heat and cold, and protected you from ailments. It is not possible for you to compensate her, or thank her enough for all the services, except that God may give you guidance for that. “We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents; but if they strive (to force) thee to join with Me anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not.” (Quran 29:8) (reference source: islamicity.org) In the above verse, Allah swt is saying not to disobey parents if they ask or force you to do shirk. It means that other than obeying parents for doing Shirk the number one sin which God will not pardon, a Muslim must obey in each and every circumstance. Now you may know how important it is to listen to parents. If she is asking you not to be in relationship with your foster brother, than you should not. because God has given her such an important place in Islam. Leave all your obligations wishes and desires and obey your mother.

[Insaanah]

:salam:

After Allah swt, the only person a good Muslim must obey is his/her mother.

Allah says in the Qur'an, that we must obey Him, we must obey His prophet :saws:, and those in authority amongst us. (Qur'an 4:59)

Below are some more narrations “He who wishes to enter Paradise through its best door must please his parents.” “A man or woman is bound to be good to his or her parents, even though they may have injured him or her.”

Who are these narrations from? Were they said by the Prophet :saws:? If so, which hadeeth collection are they recorded in?

It has also been related that the very first words which have been written on the Lauh-e-Mahfuz (The Heavenly Preserved Tablet) are: “I am God, and there is no deity except Me. I am pleased with those with whom their parents are pleased, and I am displeased with those with whom their parents are displeased.”

Where has this been related?

I've looked at the article you copied and pasted, and it is very poorly referenced, with no sources given for the above at all.

Sister digitalent, you asked for some sisters to comment. It is a known fact that females always feel freer with females than males. Yet two sisters generally wouldn't cuddle up on the sofa to watch TV together. So to do that with a brother, is even more not normal. Two sisters who see each other every day generally wouldn't hug and kiss each other every time they met. So even more abnormal to do that with a brother. In fact, many sisters would feel embarrassed to hug and kiss their brother, once grown up and adults, even though he's their brother.

The scholars have said, that even though a person may be a mahram in the shariah, if there is fear of fitnah or temptation may occur, then hijaab should be observed in front of that person, and you should avoid being alone with them. There is no concept here of "I trust him to do the right thing if I falter" etc. You'd only be deceiving yourself, sister.

In this case, I can see exactly where your mother is coming from, and her concern for you. You should listen to her, and for now, draw right back from this. You're not cutting relations, you can still say salaam etc, but you need to pull yourself right back and maintain a proper distance. Also, he may legally be a mahram, but he's also for a long time been a complete stranger, you don't know his upbringing etc, his father might have a criminal record, so your mother, like any mother would, is right to be worried. In this case, the right thing for you to do, is acknowledge what is happening, how this is coming across, your own feelings, the situation, and draw right back from this, and obey her. She is right.

You can’t say it’s bad because after all, I’m allowed to be open with him. What’s the point if I can’t even do that? You see?

And that's where the misunderstanding lies. Even with a brother and sister, there are boundaries you cannot cross. The only male and female with whom there are no boundaries save any Allah may have imposed, is husband and wife.

May Allah guide you the best course of action, ameen.

[oasis123]

:salam:

Allah says in the Qur'an, that we must obey Him, we must obey His prophet :saws:, and those in authority amongst us. (Qur'an 4:59)

Who are these narrations from? Were they said by the Prophet :saws:? If so, which hadeeth collection are they recorded in?

Where has this been related?

I've looked at the article you copied and pasted, and it is very poorly referenced, with no sources given for the above at all.

.

Walaykum salam Sister

1. After Allah swt the only person a good Muslim must obey is his/her mother. I said it because obeying Prophet صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم is same as obeying Allah swt
(Reference : "Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah, and whoever obeys the ruler I appoint, obeys me, and whoever disobeys him, disobeys me." (Sahih Bukhari)

So to simplify the case, I said that after Allah swt, the only person a good Muslim must obey is his/her mother.

2. He, who wishes to enter paradise through best door, must please his father and mother. (Bukhari & Muslim)
“A man or woman is bound to be good to his or her parents, even though they may have injured him or her”(Mishkat ul Masabih)
“عن ابن عباس رضی الله عنہما قال: قال رسول الله صلی الله علیہ وسلم: من أصبح مطیعًا لله فی والدیہ أصبح لہ بابان مفتوحان من الجنّة وان کان واحدًا فواحدًا ومن أصبح عاصیًا لله فی والدیہ أصبح لہ بابان مفتوحان من النّار ان کان واحدًا فواحدًا۔ قال رجل: وان ظلماہ؟ قال: وان ظلماہ وان ظلماہ وان ظلماہ۔” (مشکوٰة ص:۴۲۱)

3. It has also been related that the very first words which have been written on the Lauh-e-Mahfuz (The Heavenly Preserved Tablet) are: “I am God, and there is no deity except Me. I am pleased with those with whom their parents are pleased, and I am displeased with those with whom their parents are displeased.”
''اول ما کتب علی اللوح انااللّٰہ ولاالہ الا انا من رضی عنہ والد ہ فانا عنہ راض ومن سخط علیہ والدہ فانا علیہ ساخط''
(١)معراج السعادۃ ص ٨٤ ٣ .

Sister, If you need more details about the above mentioned narrations please let me know I’ll provide details about who said it to whom and if the chain of narrations is valid or not.

I'm not as knowledgeable as you but I think in the above case, the most important thing is that she should obey her mother to be safe. That is why I quoted all those references.
jakallahu khaira

[digitalent]

Sister, most of what you say in your post corroborates that you are getting too close to him in ways that should only be reserved for a spouse. By all means, treat him as a brother but don't go too far in your affection for him. He is not your husband.

For what it's worth, it is not normal for a sister to have amorous feelings towards a sibling. It's absolutely abnormal and if you have that kind of feeling and jealousy when the thought of another girl in his life comes up then that's a huge red flag that you've let this 'relationship' go too far in a wrong manner.



Again, it's very unusual for brothers and sisters to cuddle up and watch TV together. It's simply not normal.


Sorry to say it but your trust here is meaningless. There is nothing to say he wouldn't be the one faltering.

Bottom line is that you've confused a normal brother/sister relationship with that of a husband/wife relationship. Step back a bit and don't get too comfortable.

Sister digitalent, you asked for some sisters to comment. It is a known fact that females always feel freer with females than males. Yet two sisters generally wouldn't cuddle up on the sofa to watch TV together. So to do that with a brother, is even more not normal. Two sisters who see each other every day generally wouldn't hug and kiss each other every time they met. So even more abnormal to do that with a brother. In fact, many sisters would feel embarrassed to hug and kiss their brother, once grown up and adults, even though he's their brother.

The scholars have said, that even though a person may be a mahram in the shariah, if there is fear of fitnah or temptation may occur, then hijaab should be observed in front of that person, and you should avoid being alone with them. There is no concept here of "I trust him to do the right thing if I falter" etc. You'd only be deceiving yourself, sister.

Brothers & Sisters,

Since everyone seems to have a consensus on this, I’ll concede that it may be abnormal, but isn’t there a difference between “abnormal” and “wrong”? For example, being a Muslim was abnormal in Arabia back when Islam started, but it wasn’t wrong, was it? Being a Muslim is still abnormal where I live today, but you can’t say it’s wrong. Similarly, me being closer to my brother than most maybe abnormal but it can’t definitely be classified as wrong unless there is an Islamic justification for it. I mean what is it exactly that I’ve compromised which “should only be reserved for a spouse”? Isn’t hugging and kissing a mahram allowed in Islam? I can actually quote some instances of this happening from books of hadith if you want me to.

BTW, if it’s any consolation, I cuddle with my mom all the time as well.imsad

Bro Alpha Dude, I think I’m being judged way too harshly here. I said that I felt the “undercurrents of something akin to an amorous touch” on a few occasions, but I don't dwell on these thoughts; and I gave the example in which I think my reaction was very understandable given the situation. I did not say that I was “swimming in an ocean tide of lust and romanticism all the time”. I think Allah has given me a very structured mind alhamdullillah, I know my limits and I’ll never cross them. You can’t condemn a person for a few fleeting & vague wayward thoughts. Even some companions of the Prophet used to have some bad thoughts but they weren’t condemned for it;

“Muslim narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “Some of the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to him and said, ‘We find things in our hearts that none of us would dare to utter out loud.’ He said, ‘Do you really find that?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘That is clear faith.’"

In this case, I can see exactly where your mother is coming from, and her concern for you. You should listen to her, and for now, draw right back from this. You're not cutting relations, you can still say salaam etc, but you need to pull yourself right back and maintain a proper distance. Also, he may legally be a mahram, but he's also for a long time been a complete stranger, you don't know his upbringing etc, his father might have a criminal record, so your mother, like any mother would, is right to be worried. In this case, the right thing for you to do, is acknowledge what is happening, how this is coming across, your own feelings, the situation, and draw right back from this, and obey her. She is right.

Sister Insaanah, I hear what you’re saying & I can see how to the people who don’t know the reality, this situation comes across as something else when they hear about it. But If I’m reduced to just saying salam to him from a distance due to this fear then what difference would there remain between my relationship with him and a random man walking on the street? It would be like severing ties in essence. It would be like downgrading my brother to the level of a stranger. This would be a zulm of an epic level on myself & him.

You say that “for now” I should draw right back from it. Ok let’s suppose even if I do that for now, then what? How long is “for now” going to continue?

And that's where the misunderstanding lies. Even with a brother and sister, there are boundaries you cannot cross. The only male and female with whom there are no boundaries save any Allah may have imposed, is husband and wife.

What is the misunderstanding sister? I agree that Allah has placed boundaries but I don’t think I’ve crossed those boundaries & I don’t intend to either.

BTW, even on the husband and wife relationship there are some definitive boundaries.

Paradise lies under the feet of the mother. After Allah swt, the only person a good Muslim must obey is his/her mother. Below are some more narrations “He who wishes to enter Paradise through its best door must please his parents.” “A man or woman is bound to be good to his or her parents, even though they may have injured him or her.” Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (r.a.), the great-great-grandson of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have quoted Imam ‘Ali (ra) that, “disobedience to parents is a major sin.” He also stated that, “if a person looks at the face of his or her parents with wrathful eyes, despite the fact that injustice was done to him or her by the parents, his or her salah (prayer) will not be accepted by God.” “God has commanded that if anybody prays equal to the invocations performed by the prophets, such prayers will do no good if that person has been cursed by his or her parents.” It has also been related that the very first words which have been written on the Lauh-e-Mahfuz (The Heavenly Preserved Tablet) are: “I am God, and there is no deity except Me. I am pleased with those with whom their parents are pleased, and I am displeased with those with whom their parents are displeased.” ‘Ali ibn al-Husain (ra) is reported to have said: “The right of your mother on you is that you should know that nobody could endure the trouble and the conditions under which she protected you and nourished you with the juice of her life, and tried with her heart and soul to satisfy all your needs in relation to hunger, thirst, dress, etc. She passed sleepless nights, suffering anxieties. She provided you with shelter against heat and cold, and protected you from ailments. It is not possible for you to compensate her, or thank her enough for all the services, except that God may give you guidance for that. “We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents; but if they strive (to force) thee to join with Me anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not.” Quran 29:8) (reference source: islamicity.org) In the above verse, Allah swt is saying not to disobey parents if they ask or force you to do shirk. It means that other than obeying parents for doing Shirk the number one sin which God will not pardon, a Muslim must obey in each and every circumstance. Now you may know how important it is to listen to parents. If she is asking you not to be in relationship with your foster brother, than you should not. because God has given her such an important place in Islam. Leave all your obligations wishes and desires and obey your mother.

Bro oasis123, thank you for all these wonderful quotations regarding obeying one’s mother in Islam. I understand the kind of authority that my mother has over me and that I must obey her in most matters. But please correct me if I’m wrong when I say that she cannot command me to do something which goes against the teachings of Islam, right? I don’t have to obey her in the kind of matters where she says one thing and Allah tells me to do another thing. She wants me to completely cut him off from my life. But Islam places so much importance on maintaining family ties. A hadith comes to my mind:

“There is no sin more deserving of having punishment meted out by Allah to its perpetrator in advance in this world along with what He has for him in the next world than oppression and severing family ties.” (Tirmizi)

How can I obey her in this situation? BTW, I’m saying this to you but I don’t have the courage to say this to her. She’s breathing fire down my neck these days and I’m scared witless.:exhausted

[ardianto]

Brother ardianto, you seem like a very knowledgeable person mashAllah. Thank you for your kind words

You're welcome. Am I knowledgeable?. I learned many things from my colorful life. In other thread I've ever described myself as "lucky guy" because unlike many other guys who must struggle to get a girl, I was in position which the girls came to me, even my first experience which a girl fell in love with me happened when I was nine!.

I know, there are many men who dream to have luck like mine. But let me reveal something that maybe will shock people here but I am sure, will make people aware. My luck made me harassed by an older woman when I was teen, while few other older women tried to harass me but I could avoid.

It's happened because my own mistake. I let her to touch me because I thought her attention to me was not different than attention from a sister to her younger brother (she is not my relative). In the beginning maybe, but later I felt something different in her touch . Alhamdulillah, then I could avoid her before that's going worse.

I have two sisters. And yes, sometime I hug or kiss them, but still in normal limit and in certain situation. I never cuddle them when we watch TV together.

Young sister, to be honest, I am worry when I read how you cuddle him when you watch TV. I know that you see him as your brother. But you forget something that very important. He is not your biological brother and you didn't grew up together with him. So, there's no strong consciousness to avoid something wrong like biological sister and brother who grow up together.

You can love him as your brother, you can still be close with him. But try to avoid physical contact because this is very risky.

Okay?. :)

[Alpha Dude]

Since everyone seems to have a consensus on this, I’ll concede that it may be abnormal, but isn’t there a difference between “abnormal” and “wrong”? For example, being a Muslim was abnormal in Arabia back when Islam started, but it wasn’t wrong, was it? Being a Muslim is still abnormal where I live today, but you can’t say it’s wrong. Similarly, me being closer to my brother than most maybe abnormal but it can’t definitely be classified as wrong unless there is an Islamic justification for it. I mean what is it exactly that I’ve compromised which “should only be reserved for a spouse”? Isn’t hugging and kissing a mahram allowed in Islam? I can actually quote some instances of this happening from books of hadith if you want me to.

BTW, if it’s any consolation, I cuddle with my mom all the time as well.imsad

Bro Alpha Dude, I think I’m being judged way too harshly here. I said that I felt the “undercurrents of something akin to an amorous touch” on a few occasions, but I don't dwell on these thoughts; and I gave the example in which I think my reaction was very understandable given the situation. I did not say that I was “swimming in an ocean tide of lust and romanticism all the time”. I think Allah has given me a very structured mind alhamdullillah, I know my limits and I’ll never cross them. You can’t condemn a person for a few fleeting & vague wayward thoughts. Even some companions of the Prophet used to have some bad thoughts but they weren’t condemned for it;

“Muslim narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “Some of the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to him and said, ‘We find things in our hearts that none of us would dare to utter out loud.’ He said, ‘Do you really find that?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘That is clear faith.’"

Sister, nobody is judging or condemning you. We want to help you.

Well yeah, hugging and kissing a mahram is allowed but there's more to your situation than meets the eye. Don't you find it odd that all the people responding to your thread have reached the same conclusion? I tell you what made me think this - it's your tone and the manner in which you've described him to us. It's as though you are describing a lover (this is something you probably don't realise yourself).

In fact, the proof of inappropriate closeness lies in your brother's girlfriend reason for leaving him. i.e. she said he was too close to you (note, it's good that she left, but focusing on the reason for leaving here) is ample proof enough that your relationship is a bit inappropriate.

Now, I've never heard of any girl leaving a boyfriend because he was too close to his sister. Have you? Exactly my point.

And, from a man's perspective, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who had this kind of special relationship with a non-blood mahram. It just would not sit right with me. You have to think about the person you will marry too. Will he leave you due to your closeness to your brother too?

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum digitalent,


(smile) I understand how nice it must feel to have someone close in your life. Different cultures have different ideas of what is normal between family members. And I understand that in France, even with strangers, it is normal to kiss and be physically quite close.

Contrary to popular opinion, having close and warm relationships within the family doesn't lead to a greater risk of incest. Quite the contrary; incest is more likely where there is distance between family members. I have read that this is because when you grow up with someone, they are very familiar, and you are used to having a warm, but non-sexual relationship with them.

If you had been raised with this young man in a warm and loving environment, you could probably have had a pretty close relationship. You might have been able to lean on the sofa with him, and wear less clothing (still... I'd suggest limits), and have the relationship you are craving with a close family member.

But this has not been your case. While it seems that your families were close when the young man was an infant, from what I understand, he did not grow up with you. And this is a problem. I recall hearing a radio documentary about a mother who gave her son up for adoption at birth, and then he contacted her as an adult. And they went on to have a sexual relationship. It can happen.

The biggest flag, I agree with Alpha Dude, is the fact that your foster brother's girlfriend felt threatened. Women understand their men when it comes to these things. If she felt there was a threat... I deeply suspect that she is correct. I have seen this play out in real life.

But does this mean that you should cut your ties with him? Personally, I do not think so. Going from one extreme to another doesn't seem right, either, unless you are at risk of harm. Are you at such risk? I don't know. I think if I were you (as you said you have a close relationship with your mother), I'd ask your mother about what exactly happened all those years ago. What strikes me in your story is what is not said. What was your parents' and his parents' relationship? What happened? Where is your father? Where are his parents now? Why is she so afraid?

And if there is considerable risk, then you should distance yourself.

But if not, perhaps you could have a kind relationship with him. But I would recommend, as have others, that you not become too close with him until you are both married. Once you are well connected with your respective spouses, then perhaps you could be a little less cautious?

What would a kind relationship be? Given your circumstances, I'd not get together alone with him. But I would meet up with him in public. Give the "bise" as is habitual in France. You could help each other out when in need, as siblings would, but just not in a private setting. If he's sick in bed... ok, make him chicken soup. But have your mother deliver it for you. Do you see? It could be possible to be good to each other, but in ways that are less likely to cross lines. And if he can welcome you as his sister... why would he not welcome your mother as his mother?

(smile) I always wished I had an elder loving brother, too. And I also did not have the relationship with my father that I would have liked. But this was the life that Allah Gifted me with. (smile) And I have been Blessed with beautiful children, the rizq I need, the beauties of this lovely creation, and a mind and a heart that quest... All in all, I have many things. (smile) Allah has not Gifted you with siblings to grow up with. But that is ok. Because He has Gifted you with many other good things, has He not? (laugh) Do you know, my children sometimes wish (and rather ardently!) that they could have been an only child? They think sometimes that it would be so wonderful not to have to put up with their annoying siblings, or have to share anything, and to have all their mother's attention all the time...!

(gently) It is hard to restrain yourself from your heart's deepest desire. But this is what sabr truly is. Self-restraint. And yes, it is not at all easy. (smile) But Allah, you know, is with the sabireen...


May Allah, the One Who Knows, the Responsive, Guide you and Gift you with the insight and strength to do what is Pleasing to Him.

[oasis123]

Bro oasis123, thank you for all these wonderful quotations regarding obeying one’s mother in Islam. I understand the kind of authority that my mother has over me and that I must obey her in most matters. But please correct me if I’m wrong when I say that she cannot command me to do something which goes against the teachings of Islam, right? I don’t have to obey her in the kind of matters where she says one thing and Allah tells me to do another thing. She wants me to completely cut him off from my life. But Islam places so much importance on maintaining family ties. A hadith comes to my mind:

“There is no sin more deserving of having punishment meted out by Allah to its perpetrator in advance in this world along with what He has for him in the next world than oppression and severing family ties.” (Tirmizi)

How can I obey her in this situation? BTW, I’m saying this to you but I don’t have the courage to say this to her. She’s breathing fire down my neck these days and I’m scared witless

goo.gl/TDxHLW

in the above link, some people are suggesting you to consult scholar or local mosque imam. I also suggest you the same.

[digitalent]

OK so as I understand, everyone seems to have a consensus regarding the need to disengage, at least a little bit, to avoid some kind of fitnah even though Islamically I’m allowed to do pretty much what I want with him. Now I like to think that, alhamdulillah, I’m a very reasonable person. I know I don’t have a monopoly on wisdom. I can listen to reason & logic. So, in my humble opinion, even if against my better judgement & confidence in myself for compartmentalization, and not to mention my trust in him, I will very strongly consider this collective advice from some much more experienced people than myself on this board.

But I just want to clarify one thing:

In fact, the proof of inappropriate closeness lies in your brother's girlfriend reason for leaving him. i.e. she said he was too close to you (note, it's good that she left, but focusing on the reason for leaving here) is ample proof enough that your relationship is a bit inappropriate.

Now, I've never heard of any girl leaving a boyfriend because he was too close to his sister. Have you? Exactly my point.

The biggest flag, I agree with Alpha Dude, is the fact that your foster brother's girlfriend felt threatened. Women understand their men when it comes to these things. If she felt there was a threat... I deeply suspect that she is correct. I have seen this play out in real life.

Honestly, his girlfriend had a hard time grasping this Islamic concept of siblinghood. You have to admit it’s not something that other cultures and religions are familiar with. Inside, she probably thought he was pulling a fast one on her & I can’t really blame her for it, and let’s just say that I didn’t go out of my way to allay her concerns either after she decided to make me a point of contention.

Sister MuslimInshallah, since you brought up the “bise”, I’ll give an example involving that to clarify my point. There are dozens and dozens of versions of the “bise” and it depends on the nature of the relationship of the concerned persons which one they are going to practice. For example, in one version, usually preferred by people who barely know each other, the cheeks & lips may not touch at all; you just put your cheeks close together and kiss the air quickly before backing off. But in another one, close friends can exchange two or more quick kisses on cheek with the side of the lips. Between these versions and versions for family members or people you really love you‘ve got tons of options, and if someone watching doesn’t know you’re family or doesn’t want to know then it can be misconstrued as something else entirely, like “heavy” flirting. For example, the lips can linger for a fraction of a second longer; you can grab and pull the person closer in a hug; both can grab each other’s upper arms as they do it & then instead of letting go, they can just stand close to each other with their faces inches apart and start talking about anything; like how good it is to see each other etc. etc., and this can go on for quite a few seconds actually. It’s a warm gesture between family & really close friends, but it can be misconstrued by someone who’s already skeptical. And to top it all, depending on the region or your brought up, you can go for up to even 5 kisses. So there can be a lot of drama involved.

We have a wonderful expression in French which I think describes her point of view adequately: “avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre et le sourire de la crémière”, which basically means that she thought he wanted “to have the butter, the money of the butter and the smile of the dairy girl at the same time’ Its English equivalent doesn’t do justice to its funny quality in the original.

Sister, nobody is judging or condemning you. We want to help you.

Well yeah, hugging and kissing a mahram is allowed but there's more to your situation than meets the eye. Don't you find it odd that all the people responding to your thread have reached the same conclusion? I tell you what made me think this - it's your tone and the manner in which you've described him to us. It's as though you are describing a lover (this is something you probably don't realise yourself).

And, from a man's perspective, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who had this kind of special relationship with a non-blood mahram. It just would not sit right with me. You have to think about the person you will marry too. Will he leave you due to your closeness to your brother too?

Brother Alpha Dude, don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical to differentiate between a non-blood mahram and a blood mahram when Allah gave them equal rights? It’s the first time I’m hearing of something like this. If a future spouse comes with this kind of an un-Islamic mindset, trying to doubt the relationship between his wife and her brothers then its better they not be spouses at all in my opinion.

As to how I described him; I don’t know, I would have thought that a romantic interest would be described very differently if romance novels are any indication to go by. My prose regarding him may have come across as excessive to people here, but, to the contrary, I personally felt that I couldn’t do him justice due to this language barrier & the need for compactness. I can’t conjure up with words worthy enough to describe how wonderful he has been to me in the course of these months.

Assalaamu alaikum digitalent,


(smile) I understand how nice it must feel to have someone close in your life. Different cultures have different ideas of what is normal between family members. And I understand that in France, even with strangers, it is normal to kiss and be physically quite close.

Contrary to popular opinion, having close and warm relationships within the family doesn't lead to a greater risk of incest. Quite the contrary; incest is more likely where there is distance between family members. I have read that this is because when you grow up with someone, they are very familiar, and you are used to having a warm, but non-sexual relationship with them.

If you had been raised with this young man in a warm and loving environment, you could probably have had a pretty close relationship. You might have been able to lean on the sofa with him, and wear less clothing (still... I'd suggest limits), and have the relationship you are craving with a close family member.

But this has not been your case. While it seems that your families were close when the young man was an infant, from what I understand, he did not grow up with you. And this is a problem. I recall hearing a radio documentary about a mother who gave her son up for adoption at birth, and then he contacted her as an adult. And they went on to have a sexual relationship. It can happen.

The biggest flag, I agree with Alpha Dude, is the fact that your foster brother's girlfriend felt threatened. Women understand their men when it comes to these things. If she felt there was a threat... I deeply suspect that she is correct. I have seen this play out in real life.

But does this mean that you should cut your ties with him? Personally, I do not think so. Going from one extreme to another doesn't seem right, either, unless you are at risk of harm. Are you at such risk? I don't know. I think if I were you (as you said you have a close relationship with your mother), I'd ask your mother about what exactly happened all those years ago. What strikes me in your story is what is not said. What was your parents' and his parents' relationship? What happened? Where is your father? Where are his parents now? Why is she so afraid?

And if there is considerable risk, then you should distance yourself.

But if not, perhaps you could have a kind relationship with him. But I would recommend, as have others, that you not become too close with him until you are both married. Once you are well connected with your respective spouses, then perhaps you could be a little less cautious?

What would a kind relationship be? Given your circumstances, I'd not get together alone with him. But I would meet up with him in public. Give the "bise" as is habitual in France. You could help each other out when in need, as siblings would, but just not in a private setting. If he's sick in bed... ok, make him chicken soup. But have your mother deliver it for you. Do you see? It could be possible to be good to each other, but in ways that are less likely to cross lines. And if he can welcome you as his sister... why would he not welcome your mother as his mother?

(smile) I always wished I had an elder loving brother, too. And I also did not have the relationship with my father that I would have liked. But this was the life that Allah Gifted me with. (smile) And I have been Blessed with beautiful children, the rizq I need, the beauties of this lovely creation, and a mind and a heart that quest... All in all, I have many things. (smile) Allah has not Gifted you with siblings to grow up with. But that is ok. Because He has Gifted you with many other good things, has He not? (laugh) Do you know, my children sometimes wish (and rather ardently!) that they could have been an only child? They think sometimes that it would be so wonderful not to have to put up with their annoying siblings, or have to share anything, and to have all their mother's attention all the time...!

(gently) It is hard to restrain yourself from your heart's deepest desire. But this is what sabr truly is. Self-restraint. And yes, it is not at all easy. (smile) But Allah, you know, is with the sabireen...


May Allah, the One Who Knows, the Responsive, Guide you and Gift you with the insight and strength to do what is Pleasing to Him.

Sister MuslimInshallah, thank you so much for your detailed and caring reply. I hear what you’re saying. But I feel like I've come too far to go back to the kind of “kind” relationship that you’re describing, and it really feels cold as well from where I’m at right now. I don’t want cold and distant anymore when I have another option. I don’t feel like I’m at any kind of risk whatsoever, instead it’s the opposite that I feel.

The comment about sending chicken soup through my mother made me smile a little because I’ve already made a lot more standing in his kitchen. So it’s going to be hard stepping back if I decide to do so, but as I’ve said, I’m going to give it a really hard thought after such an overwhelming consensus.

And so far as what I should do with my mother, since she’s not ready to consent to meet him, I’m cooking up a tentative plan to force her into this meeting. What I’m thinking is to try to soften the target for a couple of weeks while bringing him up to speed on how to best handle her & avoid pushing her buttons, and then, on the D-day, make him wait in the car all ready with a strawberry charlotte in hand outside the house before I suddenly drop it on her that he’s waiting outside right now! And if she still refuses, then I’ll just call him in whether she likes it or not! God, I’ve never pushed her like this before! Don’t know how she’s going to react. Hopefully she’ll consider it fait accompli and be civil with him instead of making a ruckus.

He's a bit of charmer, so I'm that will work to his advantage as well. For added effect, I’m going to manage the timing such that 10-15 mins into the meeting it’ll be time for a prayer, and according to the script, he’ll be like ‘which way is the qibla from here?’ because you know how punctual he is with his prayers, :D. That should also help create a good first impression.

Dang! My heart is pounding just thinking about this! Praying she won’t murder me afterwards :exhausted. If nothing else, then maybe she’ll be more forthcoming with information after this if she’s been holding back on me.

Any suggestions? :)

JazakAllah.

You're welcome. Am I knowledgeable?. I learned many things from my colorful life. In other thread I've ever described myself as "lucky guy" because unlike many other guys who must struggle to get a girl, I was in position which the girls came to me, even my first experience which a girl fell in love with me happened when I was nine!.

I know, there are many men who dream to have luck like mine. But let me reveal something that maybe will shock people here but I am sure, will make people aware. My luck made me harassed by an older woman when I was teen, while few other older women tried to harass me but I could avoid.

It's happened because my own mistake. I let her to touch me because I thought her attention to me was not different than attention from a sister to her younger brother (she is not my relative). In the beginning maybe, but later I felt something different in her touch . Alhamdulillah, then I could avoid her before that's going worse.

I have two sisters. And yes, sometime I hug or kiss them, but still in normal limit and in certain situation. I never cuddle them when we watch TV together.

Young sister, to be honest, I am worry when I read how you cuddle him when you watch TV. I know that you see him as your brother. But you forget something that very important. He is not your biological brother and you didn't grew up together with him. So, there's no strong consciousness to avoid something wrong like biological sister and brother who grow up together.

You can love him as your brother, you can still be close with him. But try to avoid physical contact because this is very risky.

Okay?. :)

Brother ardianto, thank you so much for your words of wisdom. Please don’t worry; I’ll try to control my urges the next time I have them.:)

JazakAllah.

goo.gl/TDxHLW

in the above link, some people are suggesting you to consult scholar or local mosque imam. I also suggest you the same.

Bro oasis123, thanks for the advice. But as I have said before, the nearest mosque that I know of is more than a couple of hours drive away and it’s not feasible for me to venture out so far. Also, I don’t really trust the people there; they always looked a little shady to me whenever I saw them.

[Alpha Dude]

OK so as I understand, everyone seems to have a consensus regarding the need to disengage, at least a little bit, to avoid some kind of fitnah even though Islamically I’m allowed to do pretty much what I want with him. Now I like to think that, alhamdulillah, I’m a very reasonable person. I know I don’t have a monopoly on wisdom. I can listen to reason & logic. So, in my humble opinion, even if against my better judgement & confidence in myself for compartmentalization, and not to mention my trust in him, I will very strongly consider this collective advice from some much more experienced people than myself on this board.

That's good. May Allah make things easy for you and protect you from fitnah. Aameen.