PDA

View Full Version : Discussion about Muslim men having friendships with Muslim women



The Guided One
09-27-2015, 08:32 AM
A'salamu Alaikoom brothers and sisters, I'm 17, and I'm from Australia, Sydney.

I'm a pious Muslim and I'm fairly educated in Islam, and I'm a logical thinker when it comes to literally anything.

I believe that in Islam the three most important things when discussing and interpreting Islam and the Noble Quran are:

1)Evidence
2)Logic
3)Reason

---------------------------
Anyways, I'm understanding everything to do with Islam, however there is just one thing that I still don't understand…

And that is, 'Muslim men having friendships with a Muslim Girl in the hope of getting married'.

I've searched everywhere on the Internet for this however all the sources are the same, they all assume that having a friendship with a girl leads to Zina.

I feel offended when these old sheikhs just assume that a knowledgeable Pious Muslim man might commit Zina (One of the worst sins in Islam), if he becomes friends with a Muslim women.

No where in the Quran does it state this. These ideas are all opinions and bias of the Sheikhs.

Of course a Muslim women and and Muslim man know what's wrong and what's right when dealing with each other. If they like each other they will ask there parents about marriage and so on...

I believe the sheikhs who think that, "If a Muslim man and a Muslim women like each other and talk to each other regularly, are sinning because what they are doing might lead to Zina."…

…Those sheikhs should rephrase what they are thinking to, "If a Muslim man and a Muslim women like each other and talk to each other regularly, they are sinning because what they are doing might lead to the man and the women asking their parents for marriage permission, and if successful that will lead to a a lawful marriage ."

Thank you for reading my insights, and I hope to receive replies that can explain what's going on, with evidence and logic.

Thanks.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Insaanah
09-27-2015, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by The Guided One
A'salamu Alaikoom brothers and sisters
Wa alaykum assalaam and welcome to the forum

Originally Posted by The Guided One
I believe that in Islam the three most important things when discussing and interpreting Islam and the Noble Quran
Islam is based on the Qur'an and sunnah of the Prophet :saws:, as recorded in the authentic ahadeeth, together.

Originally Posted by The Guided One
1)Evidence
2)Logic
3)Reason
It is based on evidence for a practice being found in the Qur'an and hadeeth
After that we look at the early righteous generations, such as the sahaabah and their students
then we look at the consensus of the scholars

A person is not supposed to deduce their own ruling using their own logic, though of course many practices in Islam agree with logic.

Originally Posted by The Guided One
And that is, 'Muslim men having friendships with a Muslim Girl in the hope of getting married'.
I've searched everywhere on the Internet for this however all the sources are the same, they all assume that having a friendship with a girl leads to Zina.
I feel offended when these old sheikhs just assume that a knowledgeable Pious Muslim man might commit Zina (One of the worst sins in Islam), if he becomes friends with a Muslim women.
No where in the Quran does it state this. These ideas are all opinions and bias of the Sheikhs.
Again, you have not mentioned the hadeeth, which is one of the fundamental sources for our faith. Ignoring the hadeeth leads to misunderstandings such as this.

In Islam, when something is forbidden, then all avenues that lead to it are forbidden. As an example drinking alcohol. Not only is drinking it forbidden, but buying, selling, transporting, producing, etc are all forbidden, even though that person might not be drinking it.

Similarly, when zinaa is forbidden, all avenues that lead to it are forbidden. Men and women must dress modestly, must lower their gazes, must not be alone with those one can marry, girls have walis to find out about and talk to prospective spouses etc. All of these are outlined in the two sources of our faith put together, the Qur'an and the hadeeth. Whether a person thinks they can avoid zinaa has no bearing on the ruling.

I would re-think your feelings towards the scholars. They do not make things up, but look to Qur'an and hadeeth, as has been done by scholars since the time of the Prophet :saws: up until now. Part of the beauty of Islam is that we still have our sources that go back to the Prophet :saws:. Abandoning these leads to misguidance and misunderstanding.
Reply

najimuddin
09-27-2015, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by The Guided One
A'salamu Alaikoom brothers and sisters, I'm 17, and I'm from Australia, Sydney.

I'm a pious Muslim and I'm fairly educated in Islam, and I'm a logical thinker when it comes to literally anything.

I believe that in Islam the three most important things when discussing and interpreting Islam and the Noble Quran are:

1)Evidence
2)Logic
3)Reason

---------------------------
Anyways, I'm understanding everything to do with Islam, however there is just one thing that I still don't understand…

And that is, 'Muslim men having friendships with a Muslim Girl in the hope of getting married'.

I've searched everywhere on the Internet for this however all the sources are the same, they all assume that having a friendship with a girl leads to Zina.

I feel offended when these old sheikhs just assume that a knowledgeable Pious Muslim man might commit Zina (One of the worst sins in Islam), if he becomes friends with a Muslim women.

No where in the Quran does it state this. These ideas are all opinions and bias of the Sheikhs.

Of course a Muslim women and and Muslim man know what's wrong and what's right when dealing with each other. If they like each other they will ask there parents about marriage and so on...

I believe the sheikhs who think that, "If a Muslim man and a Muslim women like each other and talk to each other regularly, are sinning because what they are doing might lead to Zina."…

…Those sheikhs should rephrase what they are thinking to, "If a Muslim man and a Muslim women like each other and talk to each other regularly, they are sinning because what they are doing might lead to the man and the women asking their parents for marriage permission, and if successful that will lead to a a lawful marriage ."

Thank you for reading my insights, and I hope to receive replies that can explain what's going on, with evidence and logic.

Thanks.
Wa 'alaikum Assalam,

Your insights are indeed intriguing. There was a time where I would have agreed with you. However, after associating myself with experts in the field, I realize that Islam has a robust context that requires extensive knowledge in particular disciplines before proper understanding can be discerned.

The following link will take you to a published work on the principles of Qur'anic exegesis.

An Approach To The Qur'anic Sciences: Uloom-Ul-Qur'an

In addition to reading it online, you can also download a PDF version of the text at this link.

Please read the work in its entirety. In particular, I direct you to read page 47 - Qur'anic and non-Qur'anic Wahy - and pages 421 to 463 - which addresses The noble Qur'an and human rationale.

It is written by Mufti Taqi Usmani. For a brief biography of this subject-matter expert, click on the following link:

Who is Mufti Taqi Usmani?

In need of duas.
Reply

ardianto
09-27-2015, 02:23 PM
Wa'alaikumsalam.

I have ever married for almost 19 years until my beloved wife returned to Allah after 4 years struggle against breast cancer. I still feel lost although she left me in 2013. I really love her. Yes, I really love her although she was not the first girl who I wanted to marry.

When I was young I have ever met another girl and we felt matched with each other. So we made promise to marry and started to prepare our marriage. But then a problem occur, the problem that I didn't count before, jealousy of my female friend who already close with me since we were classmate in highschool. It really became a problem because both parties didn't want to lose me, and they compete with each other until finally my future wife decided to leave me.

But I was not angry to my friend. Even then I decided to marry her. I realized that our closeness had made her fell in love with me.

Love will arise between a man and a woman if they are too close with each other. This is what I have learned from my life experiences. Frankly, my late wife was not the only female friend who fell in love with me due to closeness.

Okay, what makes a woman fall in love with a man?. His handsomeness?. His wealth?. His success in career?. ....... No!. But the comfortable feeling that she feel when she is with this man. This comfortable feeling will make her wants to always together with this man, and feel hard to lose him. And if a woman already has this feeling, it's mean she already fall in love.

Friendship can be happen if both parties feel comfortable with each other. If this friendship happen between a man and another man, it would not become a problem. But if this friendship happen between a man and a woman?. If they could marry each other they should get married. But if they could not marry each other, then it would become a problem.

So, can you be friend with a woman?. If only be friend is okay, because be friend is not as close as friendship. You can be friend with a woman in the meaning of know each other, do activity together with other people (not only with her alone). It's okay if you talk with her to discuss something, as long as you know the limit. Do not too deep into personal matters.

I myself have female friends, and I know the limit. That's why I can be friend with their husbands too. Of course I always guard my relationship with them to not too close. I don’t want to cause a problem.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
BeTheChange
09-27-2015, 08:09 PM
Walaikumasalaam and a very warm welcome to the forum.

I hope your stay here is both beneficial and inspiring to your life in sha Allah.

You know your story and thoughts remind me of a very very famous story and it's making me shiver with fear. I totally 100% understand where you are coming from. Please remember shaytaan is our enemy and he has promised Allah swt he will try his very best to lead all men and women astray.

Now shaytaan knows that he will not be able to make you leave Islam (that is his ultimate goal), because that is too big of an ask but what he tries to do is focus on the so called 'small' tasks and this eventually becomes your lifestyle and eventually, you will slowly but gradually move away from Islam. Shaytaan is an expert. He knows how human beings work and he loves to trick us into the 'small' sins first. You should try and research how shaytaan works in sha Allah.

Please read the story below and am sure this will change how you think.

Also, please respect the pious sheikhs as they don't advise us what to do out of their desire and lust. They (May Allah swt help our sheikhs covey their message effectively & help us understand Ameen) advise us and try they very best to spread the word of Allah swt. We should show respect and love to our sheikhs as most of them have sacrificed all world pleasures and pursued knowledge so they can teach us.

A long read but trust me it's worth your time. In sha Allah.




At the time of Bani Israel, there was a man in a small village, called Barsisa. He was, what you call, a monk. But he was a true Christian. He believed in Tawheed and believed Isa (peace be upon him) was a messenger of Allah. One day three brothers decided to go for Jihad. But they had a sister and they did not want to leave her alone. So they went looking for someone to take care of her. The town people suggested to leave her with Barsisa, because of his piety.


So they went to him and when they asked him, he said, “I seek refuge from the cursed Shaytan” and said No! This was because he was scared of falling into sin ( due to the potential fitnah it may cause).


Then Shaytan came to Barsisa in the form of Waswasah (Whisperings). Shaytan is very smart and knew Barsisa had a soft heart. So he told Barsisa, “What if they can’t find someone good and leave her with someone bad, wouldn’t that be your fault?” Now Barsisa did not realise this was Shaytan whispering in his heart, and because of his compassion for others, he decided to accept their request and help the woman.


He let her stay in a house opposite the church. He did this so that it would be easy for him to leave her her food outside the church and she could come get it herself. But after sometime, shaytan returned. This time he told Barsisa, “Why don’t you leave the food closer for her, so that people don’t see her moving back and forth alone!” Barsisa agreed and started leaving the food outside the house. But shaytan wasn’t happy with this either, so sometime later, he returned and ask Barsisa, “Why don’t you go in and leave it on the table, so that no one sees her coming out and going in alone all the time!” Again, Barsisa agreed and he started leaving the food on the table.


Then as time went by, Shaytan returned and said to him, “Why don’t you talk to her, she is all alone and has no one to talk to!” Barsisa agreed and started talking to her from behind a door (so as to screen himself). But this would lead them to almost shouting to each other to here themselves. Shaytan asked Barsisa to just go in and talk to her, and finally, he (Shaytan) had got the alone in a room.


Shaytan had completed the difficult part. It wasn’t after Barsisa and the woman committed fornication. And to make things worse, she also became pregnant.


As soon as the baby was born, Shaytan returned, and said to Barsisa, “What have you done? Look at the result of your evil (ie the child), get ride of the evidence otherwise the brothers will kill you!”


Barsisa killed the baby and buried it in the same room the woman was in. Shaytan then told Barsisa, “Do you think you can kill the child of a woman and expect her not to tell anyone?!” and So Barsisa killed her and buried her along side the baby! He then made a fake grace outside and when her brothers returned, he informed them that she died of illness. After seeing the grave and make dua for her, they returned home and accepted Allah’s decree.


Later that night, Shaytan came to them in their dream and informed them about what Barsisa had done and where the child and their sister could be found. The brother got up upset and confused, and informed his brothers of the dream, and they both said they had the same dream.


So they believed that it must be true, and when and dug up the fake grave and found it empty. They then dug the placed shaytan showed them in the dream and found the child and woman!


Furious, the brothers took Barsisa to the Leader to get his punishment. Barsisa knew that he would be given the death penalty. Shaytan came to Barsisa again, for the final time this time.


This time he revealed himself and told him he was the one whispering the thoughts to him. And he said that he could save Barsisa, and as long as Barsisa makes sujood to him! Barsisa, out of desperation made Sujood to him , this confirmed his Kufr (disbelief) and Shaytan said to him “I am free of you, I fear Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!” and left Barsisa was stonned to death and on the day of judgement he will be resurrected making Sujood to Shaytan!


So look how shaytan tricked him. He came to him as a friend, but was infact his biggest enemy!

(Their allies deceived them) like Shaitân (Satan), when he says to man:

“Disbelieve in Allâh.” But when (man) disbelieves in Allâh, Shaitân (Satan) says: “I am free of you, I fear Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!” (Al-Hashr 59:16)

Shaytan will never make you sin directly, he will always trick you using Waswasah and he is more patient than any of us. So we should always seek refuge in Allah from Shayatn. Never think you have enough knowledge or are strong enough to take on Shaytan.

This is why the Scholars of Islam are the ones with the most Taqwa, fear of Allah. So reflect on the story, if Shaytan told Barsisa to make sujood in the beginning, Barsisa would have said no staright away, but Shaytan has a plan in hand it was a step by step policy that made Barsisa finally breakdown and commit Kufr.


Reference for above story: Stories in the Quran – Ibn Kathir – 110
Reply

BeTheChange
09-27-2015, 08:18 PM
Allah swt loves us more than our own mother. I know many of us find this very hard to comprehend but the laws are there for a reason.

Everything which has been prohibited has been prohibited for a reason. Now that reason may be known to us or it may not be known to us but that doesn't matter. Our faith is tested in this world and when we say we believe we shouldn't expect to have an easy ride. We should expect to be hurt, we should expect pain, we should expect hardship and challenges etc because this dunya is just that. A temporary abode where we will be tested again and again until our very last breath.

Every time you are tempted think of death. Think Allah swt is watching you and try and do acts that will please Allah swt alone. Focus on building your relationship with Allah swt and focus on your taqwa. The more you say no to your nafs the easier it will become and the more happier you will feel with yourself sha Allah.

We're all going to be in the grave alone so try and picture that image next time you wish to sin.

May Allah swt help you fight off temptation Ameen.
Reply

ali04321
09-29-2015, 07:01 AM
Mashallah .. Nice Sharing..
Reply

The Guided One
09-29-2015, 11:41 AM
Very good responses everyone, thanks.

I'm a shy guy, I don't have any female friends, and I highly dislike men who have multiple female 'friends'. And I also really dislike all these teenagers we see nowadays who have a female friend, yet they probably never end up marrying them.

Currently, I met this Muslim girl on the internet and I plan to visit her and go to university in her country.

I hardly talk to her, and I only ask her questions to see what kind of person she is. I talk like once every week to her.

When I meet her and if she loses potential to be my future wife then I will simply stop talking.

However if she does have potential I will stop talking to her for a few years and do my University studies and make some money then meet her family and 'marry' her as soon as possible.

So now my question is:

1) Islamically, what action must you do to make your status with a female become to "Married".

2) Islamically, Is the only 'Correct' way to Marry a girl by contacting her 'Wali' first before anything.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!