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shafat10
10-15-2015, 07:14 PM
So I will keep this simple...

First off, not here to demotivate any member, but I would like to keep this thread for members with a higher understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence - Fiqh (not academic understanding, but if you think you know it, then you're more than welcome).

More or less, we all know basic Fiqh - Jurisprudence, but how often do you think it's important to know the opinion of different scholars?

Let me make it even more clear...
Whenever you discuss Fiqh, there are topics of Mazhab coming in, I get it, but let's not at all discuss that here.

What I would rather like to know is, how often do you learn about all opinions of scholars regarding difficult Fiqh, and then tend to follow the one "more" closer to Quran and Sunnah?

How important is it to give someone all the different, correct opinions of varying scholars, and then directing them to the one more closer to Quran and Sunnah?

Because at times, some opinions are more closer to Quran and Sunnah but because of what we have been taught since long, we tend to disregard it.

Isn't it important to know the various opinions? Sometimes, all opinions may be 100% correct, and at that time, why would you limit someone to follow what "you" feel is right? As all are right, doesn't he have an option to choose what he thinks is suitable for his situation?

Thoughts?

[[[[[PS -
Higher understanding = this discussion isn't meant for new muslim brothers and sisters and / or muslims who don't keep a decent knowledge on their deen, aka, those who lack basics even.

Higher understanding doesn't have to mean you have a PhD in Islamic Studies.
If that was the case, I would be the biggest layman from that perspective.

Hope this point is clear enough eh... I see no point in taking it seriously and feeling dishonoured or disrespected as many of you seem to be. Take it easy, I explained what I mean by higher understanding here.]]]]]
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najimuddin
10-15-2015, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
So I will keep this simple...

First off, not here to demotivate any member, but I would like to keep this thread for members with a higher understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence - Fiqh (not academic understanding, but if you think you know it, then you're more than welcome).

More or less, we all know basic Fiqh - Jurisprudence, but how often do you think it's important to know the opinion of different scholars?

Let me make it even more clear...
Whenever you discuss Fiqh, there are topics of Mazhab coming in, I get it, but let's not at all discuss that here.

What I would rather like to know is, how often do you learn about all opinions of scholars regarding difficult Fiqh, and then tend to follow the one "more" closer to Quran and Sunnah?

How important is it to give someone all the different, correct opinions of varying scholars, and then directing them to the one more closer to Quran and Sunnah?

Because at times, some opinions are more closer to Quran and Sunnah but because of what we have been taught since long, we tend to disregard it.

Isn't it important to know the various opinions? Sometimes, all opinions may be 100% correct, and at that time, why would you limit someone to follow what "you" feel is right? As all are right, doesn't he have an option to choose what he thinks is suitable for his situation?

Thoughts?
Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a layman and, consequently, don't have a higher understanding of Islamic jurisprudence. Because I don't have the foggiest idea on how to obtain all the opinions related to any matter in Islam, my ignorance compels me to rely on the interpretations and guidance of experts in the field of Islamic jurisprudence. Hence, please forgive me for posting in this thread. After reading your post, I was intrigued and there are several questions that came to mind. I'd appreciate it if you can enlighten me.

1. How many Islamic scholars are there currently in the world? What is their bio-data?
2. How many Islamic scholars have existed since the time of Nabi (PBUH)? What is their bio-data?
3. How many works of Islamic jurisprudence - including source material - have been written since the time of Nabi (PBUH)?
4. How do you obtain and gather all these sources to determine whose opinion is closer to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
5. Most importantly for me: Who is the arbiter of these matters, what is their qualification, and why should I accept his/her opinion of correctness?

Please advise.
Reply

M.I.A.
10-15-2015, 10:12 PM
Every person is lead on there own path.

And Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

If it were up to us then we would only choose that which is best for ourselves.

For most people the world is big enough to forgive any error in judgement for a time.

As long as they are not considered transgressions.

Maybe wrong and right cannot be discerned from written word, only from its implementation.

As you often do become your answers.

Not sure what higher understanding is though? I was happier without knowing the question or my own answers.

:p

May Allah swt guide you to a better understanding in your knowledge..

Which differs from person to person.

Don't know to which one we are lead?

Out of the many thousands..millions..billions?
Reply

shafat10
10-15-2015, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a layman and, consequently, don't have a higher understanding of Islamic jurisprudence. Because I don't have the foggiest idea on how to obtain all the opinions related to any matter in Islam, my ignorance compels me to rely on the interpretations and guidance of experts in the field of Islamic jurisprudence. Hence, please forgive me for posting in this thread. After reading your post, I was intrigued and there are several questions that came to mind. I'd appreciate it if you can enlighten me.

1. How many Islamic scholars are there currently in the world? What is their bio-data?
2. How many Islamic scholars have existed since the time of Nabi (PBUH)? What is their bio-data?
3. How many works of Islamic jurisprudence - including source material - have been written since the time of Nabi (PBUH)?
4. How do you obtain and gather all these sources to determine whose opinion is closer to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
5. Most importantly for me: Who is the arbiter of these matters, what is their qualification, and why should I accept his/her opinion of correctness?

Please advise.
No offence but you sir didn't get any of my point.

1. There aren't a lot. Very few. Most of the Fuqaha, they did their researches previously, long, long ago and we have the texts.

2. Define Islamic Scholar. There are scholars on various sectors. If you mean those who did research on Fiqh, then there are quite a few notable ones, whose texts and interpretations are still followed today.

3. Well, I haven't kept a count eh... How do I know exactly? Do you know sir? If you do, then let me know too.
As far as how many works of Fiqh were done, a lot. A lot of researches and understanding of the deen was done by the Sahabas, the Tabeyeens and Tabe Tabeyeens. So to answer you, a lot.

4. You don't have to gather the sources. The Fuqaha themselves give their sources and if you do a small research, aka, read their books, you will understand from where they derived their Fiqhs. Once you know that, it becomes easy for you to understand which ruling is more closer to the Quran and Sunnah.
I want to give an example, but it will take long, so I don't intend doing it now.

5. As far as why you should agree with them, well, if you don't, then am afraid you need to do researches and derive Fiqhs all over again from scratch, which won't finish in your lifetime, neither the next few generations too.
The question is not why you should follow it, the question is why you should not?
For example, Allah says in the Quran, seek knowledge from Allah, that is the Quran, then from Sunnah, that is the Prophet, and then from people who have knowledge.
Hence when you can't find a ruling in the Quran and Hadith, then you refer to the great scholars we had in the past, like I said, the Sahabas, Tabeyeens, and Tabe Tabeyeens and all the other righteous scholars who came next. These were the people who did researches and studied the deen and derived the Fatwas from the Quran and Hadith which weren't clearly mentioned there.
But the verse I spoke about also says: but if people who have knowledge, they differ, then refer back to the Quran and Sunnah.
So hence I said, when there is difference of opinion amongst scholars, we then look for the one which is more closer to the Quran and Sunnah.

Hope this answers your questions.
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shafat10
10-15-2015, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
Every person is lead on there own path.

And Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

If it were up to us then we would only choose that which is best for ourselves.

For most people the world is big enough to forgive any error in judgement for a time.

As long as they are not considered transgressions.

Maybe wrong and right cannot be discerned from written word, only from its implementation.

As you often do become your answers.

Not sure what higher understanding is though? I was happier without knowing the question or my own answers.

[emoji14]

May Allah swt guide you to a better understanding in your knowledge..

Which differs from person to person.

Don't know to which one we are lead?

Out of the many thousands
You mentioned "If it were up to us then we would only choose that which is best for ourselves.".

Well, I hope this point was unclear to you.

What I mentioned at last was, there are many rulings regarding the same topic, which may seem very different, but all of those different rulings are correct from the perspective of Quran and Sunnah.

So you will be choosing the one which you like.

Now when someone else asks you the same question, would you tell him all the differing, but correct opinions about that ruling and also mention about the one which you feel is more appropriate and / or follow, and then let him choose the one which suits him best? Note that all the Fiqhs are correct, even though it may seem different.

That's the whole point of what I wanted to discuss.
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shafat10
10-15-2015, 11:00 PM
PS -
Higher understanding = this discussion isn't meant for new muslim brothers and sisters and / or muslims who don't keep a decent knowledge on their deen, aka, those who lack basics even.

Higher understanding doesn't have to mean you have a PhD in Islamic Studies.
If that was the case, I would be the biggest layman from that perspective.

Hope this point is clear enough eh... I see no point in taking it seriously and feeling dishonoured or disrespected as many of you seem to be. Take it easy, I explained what I mean by higher understanding here.

God bless.
Reply

M.I.A.
10-15-2015, 11:55 PM
What was unclear to me? Lol

To answer your previous question truthfully, I don't think I have ever compared and contrasted rulings.

...I have attended many different mosques though.

And I can sit with them but they are not willing to sit with each other.

But you could tell them they are all correct..maybe they should have told each other.

I realise how ignorant I am in this thread seriously but il keep you company until someone better gets here. Lol.

..and tells me off hopefully.

Actually irl I'd just say your way is better. IRL people very rarely ask me about religion.

..enough is enough though. Hopefully you will find a better response.

One that is more acceptable.


(iv been here six years and i still cant pigeon hole myself, conservative, leftist, rightist, socialist, communist..i have no idea, i did take a personality test once though)
Reply

najimuddin
10-16-2015, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by shafat10
No offence but you sir didn't get any of my point.

1. There aren't a lot. Very few. Most of the Fuqaha, they did their researches previously, long, long ago and we have the texts.

2. Define Islamic Scholar. There are scholars on various sectors. If you mean those who did research on Fiqh, then there are quite a few notable ones, whose texts and interpretations are still followed today.

3. Well, I haven't kept a count eh... How do I know exactly? Do you know sir? If you do, then let me know too.
As far as how many works of Fiqh were done, a lot. A lot of researches and understanding of the deen was done by the Sahabas, the Tabeyeens and Tabe Tabeyeens. So to answer you, a lot.

4. You don't have to gather the sources. The Fuqaha themselves give their sources and if you do a small research, aka, read their books, you will understand from where they derived their Fiqhs. Once you know that, it becomes easy for you to understand which ruling is more closer to the Quran and Sunnah.
I want to give an example, but it will take long, so I don't intend doing it now.

5. As far as why you should agree with them, well, if you don't, then am afraid you need to do researches and derive Fiqhs all over again from scratch, which won't finish in your lifetime, neither the next few generations too.
The question is not why you should follow it, the question is why you should not?
For example, Allah says in the Quran, seek knowledge from Allah, that is the Quran, then from Sunnah, that is the Prophet, and then from people who have knowledge.
Hence when you can't find a ruling in the Quran and Hadith, then you refer to the great scholars we had in the past, like I said, the Sahabas, Tabeyeens, and Tabe Tabeyeens and all the other righteous scholars who came next. These were the people who did researches and studied the deen and derived the Fatwas from the Quran and Hadith which weren't clearly mentioned there.
But the verse I spoke about also says: but if people who have knowledge, they differ, then refer back to the Quran and Sunnah.
So hence I said, when there is difference of opinion amongst scholars, we then look for the one which is more closer to the Quran and Sunnah.

Hope this answers your questions.
Please pardon my ignorance again. Who makes the decision of closeness to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
Reply

shafat10
10-16-2015, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
What was unclear to me? Lol

To answer your previous question truthfully, I don't think I have ever compared and contrasted rulings.

...I have attended many different mosques though.

And I can sit with them but they are not willing to sit with each other.

But you could tell them they are all correct..maybe they should have told each other.

I realise how ignorant I am in this thread seriously but il keep you company until someone better gets here. Lol.

..and tells me off hopefully.

Actually irl I'd just say your way is better. IRL people very rarely ask me about religion.

..enough is enough though. Hopefully you will find a better response.

One that is more acceptable.


(iv been here six years and i still cant pigeon hole myself, conservative, leftist, rightist, socialist, communist..i have no idea, i did take a personality test once though)
Well sir it seems like you're feeling offended for some reason or the other. Care to tell me why? I haven't said or even insinuated anything offensive to you or any member.

If you don't like this discussion, it's all fine sir, but that doesn't have to mean you have to feel offended, or at least it seems that way.

Either way, thank you for your answer and discussion, I appreciate :).
Reply

shafat10
10-16-2015, 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
Please pardon my ignorance again. Who makes the decision of closeness to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
I would request you all once again, there's nothing to take things too personally and feel offended.
What's the purpose of saying "pardon my ignorance"? There's no PhD scholar here in this thread, and it's all a simple discussion, and we all are here to share knowledge on the deen, nothing to feel offended sir.

Well so you asked who decides what is more closer to Quran and Sunnah.

Let me give an example.

For example our Prophet PBUH said in a Hadith of Sunnah Abu Dawud, that the one who cups or gets cupped, he breaks his fast.

So this is regarding whether blood donation breaks the fast or not.

There's another Hadith narrated by Aisha RA, where she said, I saw the Prophet PBUH cupping and he then continued his fast.

So based on these 2 opinions, scholars are divided, some say that it's okay to donate blood, while others say it's not.

However if one does some research on the different types of Sunnah, they will come to know, there are 3 types of Sunnah.
Things that our Prophet ordered.
Things that he did.
Things that he approved of.

Now the things that he ordered, is given more preference to the things that he did, because when he have done something, it may be because that was necessary for that specific situation and stuff, hence.

So if you analyse the two narrations, the one where our Prophet said that cupping breaks the fast, is more appropriate, rather than the action, which might have been performed because of some specific reason which he and Allah knows the best.

Hence this is how one distinguishes which is more closer to Quran and Sunnah, in this case, the law saying it breaks the fast is more appropriate.

Hence I said, when discussing something, do you give them both the opinions and explain them which one is more closer to Quran and Sunnah, or just give the opinion you follow.

That's the point of this discussion sir.
I hope I was able to answer you.
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M.I.A.
10-16-2015, 01:53 PM
That's a great post, took a while to get there but I'm sure all the laymen have learned something new.

...I'm always miffed >:[

Lol
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greenhill
10-16-2015, 01:53 PM
Very good distinction on types of sunnah.

What the prophet (pbuh) ordered.
What he did, and
What he approved of. ..

:thumbs_up

:peace:
Reply

najimuddin
10-16-2015, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
I would request you all once again, there's nothing to take things too personally and feel offended.
What's the purpose of saying "pardon my ignorance"? There's no PhD scholar here in this thread, and it's all a simple discussion, and we all are here to share knowledge on the deen, nothing to feel offended sir.

Well so you asked who decides what is more closer to Quran and Sunnah.

Let me give an example.

For example our Prophet PBUH said in a Hadith of Sunnah Abu Dawud, that the one who cups or gets cupped, he breaks his fast.

So this is regarding whether blood donation breaks the fast or not.

There's another Hadith narrated by Aisha RA, where she said, I saw the Prophet PBUH cupping and he then continued his fast.

So based on these 2 opinions, scholars are divided, some say that it's okay to donate blood, while others say it's not.

However if one does some research on the different types of Sunnah, they will come to know, there are 3 types of Sunnah.
Things that our Prophet ordered.
Things that he did.
Things that he approved of.

Now the things that he ordered, is given more preference to the things that he did, because when he have done something, it may be because that was necessary for that specific situation and stuff, hence.

So if you analyse the two narrations, the one where our Prophet said that cupping breaks the fast, is more appropriate, rather than the action, which might have been performed because of some specific reason which he and Allah knows the best.

Hence this is how one distinguishes which is more closer to Quran and Sunnah, in this case, the law saying it breaks the fast is more appropriate.

Hence I said, when discussing something, do you give them both the opinions and explain them which one is more closer to Quran and Sunnah, or just give the opinion you follow.

That's the point of this discussion sir.
I hope I was able to answer you.
Salaam again,

I'm not offended brother. Being a PhD scholar in a secular science, I have devoted my life to research and teaching. That's why I have sought to understand what you have proposed. My experience with Islamic knowledge has been different. For reference, linked source material in this post is underlined and highlighted in green.

The amount of work on Islamic jurisprudence by the fairly recent fuqaha cited below, alone, go into over 30 volumes of scholarship. Your premise of it being easy for a non-faqih to make intricate judgements of discerning which ruling is closer to the Qur’an and Sunnah is not supported by the scholars of Islamic jurisprudence/fuqaha themselves.

For example:

Faqeeh al-Ummah Mufti Mahmood Al-Hasan Gangohi (1907 - 1996) – author of the multi-volume work on fiqh, Fataawa Mahmoodiyah states:

“It is very difficult to discuss masaa’il in a public gathering. The questioner has certain conditions and situations in his mind and he will understand a concise answer. Those other than the questioner whose minds are void of the situation will understand the mas’alah incorrectly.”

Furthermore, Hakim al-Ummah Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (1863-1943) – author of the multi-volume work on fiqh, Imdad al-Fataawa, is quoted to have stated:

“The question used to always arise in my mind as to the reason for the ulama not discussing masaa’il in public gatherings. It took me some time to understand the secret behind this. Once, I had discussed a mas’alah in the course of a lecture. After the lecture, the audience began differing as to what was the exact mas’alah. When the news of this reached me, only then did I realize the reason for the ulama not discussing masaa’il in public gatherings.”

Both quotes taken from Malfoozat – Statements and Anecdotes of Faqeeh-ul-Ummat Mufti Mahmood Hasan Gangohi – Volume 1, page 360.

The above two fuqaha are associated with Darul Uloom Deoband – an Islamic university of the classical tradition. Please click on this sentence to become acquainted with this educational institution’s robust and comprehensive system of education.

Darul Uloom Deoband has been training individuals to become qualified Islamic scholars since 1866. According to statistics provided by an affiliated Islamic university – Darul Uloom Al-Arabiya Al-Islamiya, Bury in the UK, since 1866 there have been 106,000 graduates of Darul Uloom Deoband as of 2005.

This is not surprising, as an article published by the United States Military Academy at West Point mentions:

“By 1967, Darul Uloom (Deoband) had graduated 3,795 students from present-day India, 3,191 from Pakistan and present-day Bangladesh, and 431 from multiple other countries, such as Afghanistan, China and Malaysia. By 1967, there were 8,934 Deobandi schools worldwide.”

The article further acknowledges that:

The Darul Uloom Deoband, “…places particular emphasis on the importance of religious education. It is committed to a ‘correct’ interpretation of Shari`a (Islamic law). Deobandi students become alim (religious scholars) after an eight-year-long course in various aspects of Islamic learning such as logic, Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur’an, the history of literature and the hadiths.”

In sum, there are many qualified scholars in the world today, of the Deobandi tradition alone. As a PhD scholar of a secular science, I want to know the educational background/qualifications of the person I'm learning from. This is a tradition of scholarship that lends to credibility in the secular sciences as well.

In your post quoted above, you have made yourself the arbiter of a ruling's closeness to the Qur'an and Sunnah. The statistics quoted above makes it evident that there are many other qualified opinions out there. Additionally, the fuqaha themselves have advised us of the dangers of simplistic understandings. There are intricate matters and specialized understanding that a faqih must be privy to. Having the experience of academic scholarship, I defer my Islamic understanding to experts in this field.

With this observation, I am not discounting other non-Deobandi ulema. I'm just sticking to one school for illustrative purposes.

Out of the many contemporary Islamic scholars of the classical tradition that I have benefited from, I'd like to share one of them with you:

http://www.zamzamacademy.com/about-us/teachers/

In need of duas.
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ZeeshanParvez
12-01-2015, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by shafat10
So I will keep this simple...

First off, not here to demotivate any member, but I would like to keep this thread for members with a higher understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence - Fiqh (not academic understanding, but if you think you know it, then you're more than welcome).

More or less, we all know basic Fiqh - Jurisprudence, but how often do you think it's important to know the opinion of different scholars?
Very. Not only should you know the difference of opinion but also the evidences used to derive them. Again since this post is for higher understanding I am stating this. Otherwise for a layman following a scholar suffices.

Let me make it even more clear...
Whenever you discuss Fiqh, there are topics of Mazhab coming in, I get it, but let's not at all discuss that here.

What I would rather like to know is, how often do you learn about all opinions of scholars regarding difficult Fiqh, and then tend to follow the one "more" closer to Quran and Sunnah?

Every time. Take the example of Al-'eelaa in which the majority of Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) were of the opinion that when the time of four months elapses it does not result in automatic divorce, but the person gets to make a choice to keep his wife or give her divorce while a minority were of the opinion that it occurs with just the passage of the term of four months.

The view of the majority is much closer to the apparent meaning of the Qur'aan and Hadith. Hanafis would differ on this issue as they have taken the view of the minority of the Companions, but then that is inevitable when it comes Fiqh. You will always have differences of opinion.


How important is it to give someone all the different, correct opinions of varying scholars, and then directing them to the one more closer to Quran and Sunnah?
Best to give them all the different opinions. If they believe in following only one Madhab then they will follow that opinion. It really depends on what the person believes in. Some will follow their Madhab to the nail and believe it is all in accordance with the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Trying to convince them otherwise would be of no use.

But if you want to convince then you need to know all the opinions, their evidences, and know how to present the information in a way anyone can understand.

Because at times, some opinions are more closer to Quran and Sunnah but because of what we have been taught since long, we tend to disregard it.
True.

Isn't it important to know the various opinions?
Yes it is and it is imperative to know their evidences as well. That would need a little bit of learning in respect to Mustalah Al-Hadith and Usool Al-Fiqh

Sometimes, all opinions may be 100% correct, and at that time, why would you limit someone to follow what "you" feel is right? As all are right, doesn't he have an option to choose what he thinks is suitable for his situation?
More often than not you will find one opinion closer to the Qur'aan and Sunnah.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
12-01-2015, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by najimuddin

The Darul Uloom Deoband, “…places particular emphasis on the importance of religious education. It is committed to a ‘correct’ interpretation of Shari`a (Islamic law). Deobandi students become alim (religious scholars) after an eight-year-long course in various aspects of Islamic learning such as logic, Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur’an, the history of literature and the hadiths.”

In sum, there are many qualified scholars in the world today, of the Deobandi tradition alone. As a PhD scholar of a secular science, I want to know the educational background/qualifications of the person I'm learning from. This is a tradition of scholarship that lends to credibility in the secular sciences as well.

In your post quoted above, you have made yourself the arbiter of a ruling's closeness to the Qur'an and Sunnah. The statistics quoted above makes it evident that there are many other qualified opinions out there. Additionally, the fuqaha themselves have advised us of the dangers of simplistic understandings. There are intricate matters and specialized understanding that a faqih must be privy to. Having the experience of academic scholarship, I defer my Islamic understanding to experts in this field.
With all due respect Deoband is not the only school in Islam. We have three others including Maaliki, Shaafi, and Hanbali all of which provide evidences which at times are much more in accordance with the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Thus, I find the quote a little biased from these sources.

Reply

ZeeshanParvez
12-01-2015, 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a layman and, consequently, don't have a higher understanding of Islamic jurisprudence. Because I don't have the foggiest idea on how to obtain all the opinions related to any matter in Islam, my ignorance compels me to rely on the interpretations and guidance of experts in the field of Islamic jurisprudence. Hence, please forgive me for posting in this thread. After reading your post, I was intrigued and there are several questions that came to mind. I'd appreciate it if you can enlighten me.
Perhaps you could dedicate a little time to learning Arabic and then you will have access to over 6000 books on every Fiqh.

Until then, if you can read Urdu in Urdu, I could direct you to a translation of the Kawati Encylopedia of Fiqh which is a contemporary Encyclopedia including opinions from all four Schools of Jurisprudence on every subject.
Reply

greenhill
12-01-2015, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Perhaps you could dedicate a little time to learning Arabic and then you will have access to over 6000 books on every Fiqh.

Until then, if you can read Urdu in Urdu, I could direct you to a translation of the Kawati Encylopedia of Fiqh which is a contemporary Encyclopedia including opinions from all four Schools of Jurisprudence on every subject.
:exhausted

A bit of an oxymoron. Spend a little time to study a language and read over 6000 books covering all kinds of fighs.. I mean, how many of us have actually even thoroughly read the Quran? ...let alone do that.. ;D

But it does ram home something.

We have to start with intention. It should be to please Allah. What does it say in the Quran about the heart, what does it say about the nafs, pride, mischief, oppression and hypocrisy. What does it say about charity, forgiveness, moderation, fairness, community and all because it is the way that displeases or pleases Allah.

Here's where all colonial nations, like Malaysia, the remnants of the colonial laws, stuck for good with the education system. Forever brainwashed from anything islamic except in spirit and way of life... well, even that is going through its own revolution.

Islamic studies, unfortunately has no place in mainstream education. As such, most Muslims understand the basics, especially about the Shahadah. About the prophets, the rest is from what is observed.

In actual fact, being educated with islamic studies as a primary subject, science and languages, arts and sports as secondary pursuit should be the way.

Wishful thinking..


:peace:
Reply

M.I.A.
12-01-2015, 07:14 PM
I saw a book on zakat once.

...it was an actual book o_o
Reply

Abz2000
12-01-2015, 10:41 PM
:sl: this post is going to be a bit long due to the amount of thinking required to understand the situation better.

Observations.
There will always be those who know more than others on any given topic, and then there will be those who are able to comprehend more despite having a smaller knowledge database, then there will be those who can properly apply a piece of knowledge gained much earlier in a contextual situation that appeared to have no relevance earlier.

Once Imam Abu Haneefa gave a ruling in an assembly of A`mash. A`mash was amazed at the answer. He asked, “How did you arrive at this conclusion?”
The Imam said, “From a Hadith which in fact you had narrated to us.”
A`mash admitted: “You jurisconsults (fuqaha’) are like doctors, while we, the collectors of Hadith are like pharmacists. We specialize in the texts and transmitters of theHadith, but you understand their meanings.”
http://islamicencyclopedia.org/publi...icDetail/id/57
The above quoted incident shows us that some have more knowledge in their databases than others whereas some are better at translating/interpreting even small amounts of data and filing/presenting it in a contextual format.
it also demonstrates that the four respected imams of fiqh didn't know everything, and may have done even better if they had lived in our present time where they could have analyzed every hadith available to the world today, but then, a downside would have been that they might have arrived at a time when people were lost in total ignorance and anarchy due to the fact that people hadn't fallen into conformity with the four imams at the time when not everyone could access information so easily.

When looking into these topics, it would be useful to look into the situation of the mostly illiterate Sahabah (ra) of RasulAllah (pbuh) who were all expected to learn what beneficial knowledge they could regardless of their level of knowledge or profession, some having spent more time than others with the final Messenger of Allah pbuh.

From what little knowledge i have gained by Allah's grace in this vast universe which one could never finish writing about, i would say that it is useful to provide all available genuinely sincere and truthful opinions where time permits and the situation requires, giving as much background data as possible so that people can always keep Allah in mind in their day-to-day activities and learn to use their good judgement in every situation they come across.

People will come across situations where they need to consult people who know more than themselves,

Hadith no: 572
Narrated / Authority of: Ata bin Abu Rabahsaid:
“I heard Ibn ‘Abbas saying that a man was injured in the head at the time of the Messenger of Allah (saw), then he had a wet dream.
He was told to have a bath, so he took the bath, became rigid and stiff, and died.
News of that reached the Messenger of Allah (saw) and he said:
“They have killed him, may Allah kill them!
Is not the sure for a lack of knowledge to ask questions?’
” ‘Ata’ said: “We heard that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said:
‘If only he had washed his body and left his head alone where the wound was.’” (Sahih) sunan ibn majah
http://ahadith.co.uk/chapter.php?cid=148
Volume 1, Page 67: Wiping Over Casts, Wrappers and Similar Items
It is allowable to wipe over any wrapper or diseased or injured bodily part. There are many hadith on this point, and although they are all weak, their many chains strengthen each other, making them valid to talk about. One hadith, that of Jabir (quoted earlier), relates a story about a man who was on a journey and suffered an injury. While he slept, he had a wet dream, after which he asked his companions if he could perform tayammum. They said he could not, so he made ghusl and died because of it. When that was mentioned to the Prophet, he said "They killed him, may Allah kill them. Do you not ask about what you do not know? ... It would have been enough for him to perform tayammum and drop a little water over his wound or else wipe it, then to wipe it and wash the rest of the body." This is related by Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, ad-Daraqutni and Ibn as-Sakin, who classified it as sahih. Ibn 'Umar used to do this.
http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=20&chapter=4
and will come across situations where they have to apply what little they may they know to the best of their ability.
Not everyone can keep a mufti of the highest eminence with them in their daily activities, although kings usually can - and even then, the kings have to use their good judgement when settling an issue. There is no point saying that laymen might argue, because if laymen aren't given knowledge, they'll remain laymen forever. We live in the time of the www where almost anyone can search a topic when they're uncertain of how to proceed and it is better that everyone gains knowledge and learns to use the faculty of intellect that Allah has bestowed.

The sahabah (ra) would all get together and discuss certain topics after speeches of the Prophet pbuh, and sometimes the Prophet pbuh would come out and explain (such as the hadith of the 70,000 who would enter paradise without reckoning http://friendsofallah.blogspot.com/2...-paradise.html ), other times they would refrain from asking out of fear of bothering him too much and would do their best to comprehend by themselves whilst seeking the face of Allah.
there were also times when he (pbuh) emphasized the fact that they needed to use their intellects:
Imams Bukhari & Muslim reported that the prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) one time He stood up and delivered a speech saying,
“O people, Allah has prescribed upon you hajj (pilgrimage) so perform pilgrimage.”
A man said, “Is it mandatory to do it every year O messenger of Allah?”
At that point the prophet remained silent, but the man insistent and asked the question three times,
then the prophet responded, “If I said yes, it will had become mandatory, but you would not be able to bear it.”

We must also be careful of the situation of the people of the Torah who became so timid in their endeavour to learn and use their faculties of intellect, and detached so much from the Book that they ended up taking their scholars as flawless beings to the extent that many errantly accepted the Talmud as the inerrant will of God (we are not worthy), whereas it is unarguable that genuine scholars will usually provide the facts and their understanding to the best of their reasonable ability and expect you to fear Allah in your obedience to them.
eg: http://www.islamicboard.com/health-a...ml#post2857428


Imam Abu Hanifah (may Allah have mercy upon him and be pleased with him) himself appears to be no blind follower of opinions despite a false aura of immortality having been attributed to him. It appears that he was however a devout servant of Allah and follower of the final messenger of Allah pbuh and was not an innovator of his own religion.

“Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Zuhri narrates from Bishr ibn al-Walid who said, ‘Mansur called for Abu Hanifah and wanted him to take up the judiciary and he swore that he will definitely take it.
Imam Abu Hanifah refused and vowed, “I will not.”
Al-Rabi‘ al-Hajib said, “You see the commander of the faithful taking an oath and you then also take an oath?”
He replied, “The commander of the faithful is more capable of fulfilling the compensation for his oath than I.”
He was sent to prison; he died there in Baghdad…’

http://www.central-mosque.com/index....nd-hadith.html
a variation:

Later in 146H, when Ibrahim ibn Hasan (a descendant of `Ali) rebelled against the Abbasids, Imam Abu Hanifah supported his cause and helped him with a big sum.
Earlier, when Zayd, the son of Zayn al-`Aabideen rose against the Umayyad's, Abu Hanifah had helped him too. He believed that the `Alawiyyun deserved Khilafah more than the Umayyads or `Abbasids.
When Mansur, the `AbbasidCaliph, came to know of his inclination towards the progeny of `Ali, he invited him to settle down in Baghdad and take up the post of Chief Justice.
Abu Hanifah refused.
Several meetings took place to persuade Abu Hanifah.
On one occasion, Mansur said, “By Allah, you will have to accept the job”
The Imam replied, “By Allah, I will not.”
Mansur was boiling with anger. He said, “Do you swear upon my oath?”
He replied, “Yes, because it is easy for you to break your oath and offer expiation than me.”
At one point Abu Hanifah told him that he did not think he was fit for the job.
Mansur said, “Of course, you are! You are lying.”
Abu Hanifah said, “If I am lying, then I am disqualified for the judiciary.”
Ultimately, he got him imprisoned. The Imam kept conducting classes from the prison. Mansur did not feel safe from him and his powerful political influence, even when behind the bars. So, one report says he got him poisoned, another, that he died of whip lashes in 150H
http://islamicencyclopedia.org/publi...icDetail/id/57
.

however we must also note that some worshippers of the respected imam appear to have heaped up a load of lies about him too:


“Bishr ibn al-Walid narrates from Abu Yusuf who said, ‘I was walking with Abu Hanifah when a man said to another,
“This is Abu Hanifah, he does not sleep at night.”
Imam Abu Hanifah said, “I swear by Allah, people do not speak of me regarding that which I have not done.”
He used to keep awake the night in prayer, du‘a and supplication.’
I (Imam Hafiz al-Dhahabi) say: I have devoted a chapter to the virtues of this imam. He died in Rajab, 150AH. May Allah be pleased with him.”
“Sharik narrates, ‘Abu Hanifah is someone who would remain quiet for a long time and was someone of great intelligence.’
Abu ‘Asim al-Nabil said, ‘Abu Hanifah would be called al-watd (the pole) due to performing so many salah.’
Ibn Ishaq al-Samarqandi narrates from Qadi Abu Yusuf who said, ‘Abu Hanifah used to complete the Qur’an every night in one rak‘ah.’
If we laymen have a little knowledge of the hadith we can see that both the claim that abu hanifah (ra) didn't sleep at night due to prayer and supplication, and that he used to complete the Quran every night in one raka'ah don't appear to hold much weight since since it is reported by imam Muslim that the Prophet pbuh would pray and sleep, would fast and not fast, would marry and divorce - and that he pbuh emphasized the importance of such type of behaviour, it is difficult to assume that Imam Abu Hanifah was ignorant of such a widely narrated hadith. (note: i haven't been sleeping at night myself recently because i fall asleep during the day and can concentrate on studies during the night without yelling at the kids - different context, easily possible, though not the nature of the context presented by the flatterer).

it is also recorded in Sahih Muslim that Allah's Messenger (pbuh) forbade a younger companion from completing the Quran daily after his father/companion complained him about his son's/companion's extremism, the boy then bargained with the Prophet pbuh and brought it to seven or three days, in this case, it is relevant to present both or all available ahadith so that the teacher doesn't tell a lie, and that the reader is not deceived:

It was reported from Abu Salamah, from Abdullah bin Amr (RA) that the Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite the Qur’an in one month.”
He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in twenty (days).” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.”
The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in fifteen.” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.”
The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in ten.” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” So he (the Prophet, PBUH) said, “Recite it in seven and do not do more than that.”
(Hadith No. 1388, Chapters pertaining to the Month of Ramadan, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2).

It was reported from Yazid bin Abdullah, from Abdullah bin Amr (RA), that he said, “O Allah’s Messenger (PBUH)! In how many days should I recite Qur’an?”
He (the Prophet, PBUH) replied, “In one month.” I said, “I am capable of more!” – and he made it less, until he said, “Recite it in seven.”
So he (Abdullah bin Amr, RA) said, “I am capable of more!”
But he (the Prophet, PBUH) said, “He who recites it in less than three (days) will not understand it.”
(Hadith No. 1390, Chapters pertaining to the Month of Ramadan, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2).
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Amr (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) said, “No one properly understands who reads the Qur’an in less than three days.”
(Hadith No. 1347, Chapters of Establishing Prayer & Sunnah regarding them, Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2).
http://www.quranandhadith.com/in-how...quran-be-read/
so we can see that we need to be able to access lawful information in order to expand our knowledge base and that we should not blindly take the false practices attributed to Imams as fiqh when we know that there is a more correct opinion, even if the imams commited such an act out of zeal and due to the fact that they lacked knowledge of a clear ruling, it is more fitting that we obey Allah and accept the sincere advice of each other in a good manner while increasing in knowledge and humility.

below is a plea by the 'Aalim who put the various ahadith on the website, explained them , and gave his opinions:

I want to highlight a practice of completing recitation of whole Qur’an in one single night.
This practice is more prevalent in countries like India, Pakistan etc. Such practice is adopted by some memorizers of Qur’an to organize what they call ‘Shabinah‘;
it refers to reciting whole Qur’an in one single night in nawafil prayers, mostly in Tarawih during Ramadan.
I appeal to all such brothers (both, those who recite whole Qur’an in one night during ‘Shabinah’ in the month of Ramadan and those who attend it): Please give up this practice. This practice was disliked by our Prophet (PBUH), and hence falls under the category of Makrooh.

http://www.quranandhadith.com/in-how...quran-be-read/
similar claims have been made about imam Ash-shaafi'i and others:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=6295
and Imam Bukhari: http://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/36180
and various other renowned knowledgeable people, others have provided detailed analyses and given their reasoning, ultimately we can sift through this information and come to a reasonable conclusion that the practice of over-rushing the reading of the Quran is wrong - since anyone who's read the Quran a few times knows that it is impossible for a normal human brain to make sense of the data input if it is brutely forced into them in such a short time.


The sahabah too were humans and were ready to accept knowledge and correct each other in their derivations of fiqh:
Hadith no: 569
Narrated / Authority of: Said bin Abdur Rahman bin Abza
from his father, that a man came to ‘Umar bin Khattab and said:
“I became impure following sexual emission and cannot find any water.”
‘Umar said to him: “Do not pray.”
But ‘Ammar bin Yasir said, “Do you not remember, O Commander of the Believers, when you and I were on a military expedition and we became sexually impure and could not find water? As for you, you did not pray, but I rolled in the dust and then prayed.
When I came to the Prophet (saw) and told him what had happened, he said: ‘It would have been enough for you (to do this).’ (Then demonstrating) the Prophet (saw) struck the ground with his hands, then blew on them, and wiped his face and palms with them.” (Sahih- sunan ibn majah)

http://ahadith.co.uk/chapter.php?cid=148
Sahih Muslim 5356
'Ubaid b. Umair reported that Abu Musa brought permission from Umar (to enter the house) three times, and finding him busy came back, whereupon Umar said (to the Inmates of his house): Did you not hear the voice of 'Abdullah b. Qais (the Kunya of Abu Musa Ash'ari)? He was called back. and he (Hadrat 'Umar) said: What prompted you to do it?
Thereupon, he said: This is how we have been commanded to act.
He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: Bring evidence (in support of) it, otherwise I shall deal (strictly) with you.
So he (Abu Musa) set out and came to the meeting of the Ansar and asked them to bear witness before hadrat Umar about this. They (the Companions present there) said: None but the youngest amongst us would bear out this fact.
So Abu Sa'id Khudri (who was the youngest one in that company) said: We have been commanded to do so (while visiting the house of other people).
Thereupon 'Umar said: This command of Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had remained hidden from me up till now due to (my) business in the market.

the hadith is available with many variations here:

http://www.sahihmuslim.com/sps/smm/s...&ChapterID=904


and a variation quoted by ibn kathir here:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...2431&Itemid=79
Then, after reading all those scholarly opinions, one also finds in Sahih Muslim that Uthman (ra) is reported to have been amongst those who recited it quick (one rakah or day i think i recall), Allah knows of it's authenticityand how large the Quraan was at the time, but we come to realize that halal information is essential to understanding.


'Umar (ra)'s humility despite possibly being amongst the most knowledgeable after Abu Bakr (ra):
With regard to the story narrated from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him), that when he forbade increasing the mahr to more than four hundred dirhams, a woman from among Quraysh objected to that and said: “O Ameer al-Mu’mineen, you have forbidden increasing the mahr of women to more than four hundred dirhams, have you not heard the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘…and you have given one of them a Qintaar (of gold, i.e. a great amount as Mahr)…’ [al-Nisa’ 4:20]?”

He said: “O Allaah, forgive me. All the people have more understanding of religion than ‘Umar.” Then he went back and ascended the minbar, and said: “O people, I forbade you to increase women’s dowries to more than four hundred. But whoever wants to give as much as he wants of his wealth, let him do so.”

But this story may be understood in different ways, and cannot be used as evidence or to oppose the proven texts referred to above, especially when there is no report of any objection to ‘Umar or denunciation of him on the part of any of the Sahaabah apart from this woman.


Adapted from the words of Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem. See Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem, 10/187-199.

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=6539




“Shu‘ayb ibn Ayyub al-Sarifini said, Abu Yahya al-Himmani narrated to us, ‘I heard Abu Hanifah say, “I saw a dream that scared me. I saw I was digging up the grave of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). I came to Basrah and ordered a man to ask Muhammad ibn Sirin and he asked him. He said, ‘This man shall uncover the hadiths of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).’”’

Let us follow the best example, gain knowledge and wisdom and learn Islam to the best of our reasonable ability, and utilize it in serving and pleasing Allah, and let us not become the type who dig the Prophet's grave and throw humble and sincere imams into the void, the seeking of knowledge is the duty of every Muslim.






Edit: (was getting late for Fajr so i hit "post" without completing the train of thought)

In my very humble opinion, It appears that there are times when it is essential to provide details before providing an opinion, simply for the purpose of allowing people the opportunity to research further and come to a clearer understanding, since one opinion can be as strong as another, and there are times (such as khilafah enforcement) when it is essential to fear get the scholars who fear only Allah work sincerely and truthfully to unite upon an issue based upon Quran, Sunnah and other knowledge gained, and say "we do it like this", while maybe providing the details of how they came to the conclusion on a government website. Deleting the conflicting ahadith and other rejected opinions wouldn't be wise since a different conclusion may be arrived at in future based upon more knowledge gained.
They could be sifted and categorized in additional files.
But say for instance in a normal situation where a Mufti is answering various questions from less knowledgeable men/women who trust in and are willing to accept his/her ruling would have to give a quick opinion without a detailed history lesson.
There's no either this or that answer that fits all situations in the case of the question.
Reply

Abz2000
12-01-2015, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
I saw a book on zakat once.

...it was an actual book o_o
you know i sometimes disagree with you on certain topics, but i have to admit that your posts are amazing, they leave me scratching my head for ages and ages. they also lighten the mood in the most depressing of situations.
Reply

najimuddin
12-07-2015, 11:02 PM
Post #13 (click on purple link to the left in order to access original post)

Originally Posted by najimuddin
Salaam again,

I'm not offended brother. Being a PhD scholar in a secular science, I have devoted my life to research and teaching. That's why I have sought to understand what you have proposed. My experience with Islamic knowledge has been different. For reference, linked source material in this post is underlined and highlighted in green.

The amount of work on Islamic jurisprudence by the fairly recent fuqaha cited below, alone, go into over 30 volumes of scholarship. Your premise of it being easy for a non-faqih to make intricate judgements of discerning which ruling is closer to the Qur’an and Sunnah is not supported by the scholars of Islamic jurisprudence/fuqaha themselves.

For example:

Faqeeh al-Ummah Mufti Mahmood Al-Hasan Gangohi (1907 - 1996) – author of the multi-volume work on fiqh, Fataawa Mahmoodiyah states:

“It is very difficult to discuss masaa’il in a public gathering. The questioner has certain conditions and situations in his mind and he will understand a concise answer. Those other than the questioner whose minds are void of the situation will understand the mas’alah incorrectly.”

Furthermore, Hakim al-Ummah Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (1863-1943) – author of the multi-volume work on fiqh, Imdad al-Fataawa, is quoted to have stated:

“The question used to always arise in my mind as to the reason for the ulama not discussing masaa’il in public gatherings. It took me some time to understand the secret behind this. Once, I had discussed a mas’alah in the course of a lecture. After the lecture, the audience began differing as to what was the exact mas’alah. When the news of this reached me, only then did I realize the reason for the ulama not discussing masaa’il in public gatherings.”

Both quotes taken from Malfoozat – Statements and Anecdotes of Faqeeh-ul-Ummat Mufti Mahmood Hasan Gangohi – Volume 1, page 360.

The above two fuqaha are associated with Darul Uloom Deoband – an Islamic university of the classical tradition. Please click on this sentence to become acquainted with this educational institution’s robust and comprehensive system of education.

Darul Uloom Deoband has been training individuals to become qualified Islamic scholars since 1866. According to statistics provided by an affiliated Islamic university – Darul Uloom Al-Arabiya Al-Islamiya, Bury in the UK, since 1866 there have been 106,000 graduates of Darul Uloom Deoband as of 2005.

This is not surprising, as an article published by the United States Military Academy at West Point mentions:

“By 1967, Darul Uloom (Deoband) had graduated 3,795 students from present-day India, 3,191 from Pakistan and present-day Bangladesh, and 431 from multiple other countries, such as Afghanistan, China and Malaysia. By 1967, there were 8,934 Deobandi schools worldwide.”

The article further acknowledges that:

The Darul Uloom Deoband, …places particular emphasis on the importance of religious education. It is committed to a ‘correct’ interpretation of Shari`a (Islamic law). Deobandi students become alim (religious scholars) after an eight-year-long course in various aspects of Islamic learning such as logic, Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur’an, the history of literature and the hadiths.

In sum, there are many qualified scholars in the world today, of the Deobandi tradition alone. As a PhD scholar of a secular science, I want to know the educational background/qualifications of the person I'm learning from. This is a tradition of scholarship that lends to credibility in the secular sciences as well.

In your post quoted above, you have made yourself the arbiter of a ruling's closeness to the Qur'an and Sunnah. The statistics quoted above makes it evident that there are many other qualified opinions out there. Additionally, the fuqaha themselves have advised us of the dangers of simplistic understandings. There are intricate matters and specialized understanding that a faqih must be privy to. Having the experience of academic scholarship, I defer my Islamic understanding to experts in this field.


With this observation, I am not discounting other non-Deobandi ulema. I'm just sticking to one school for illustrative purposes.

Out of the many contemporary Islamic scholars of the classical tradition that I have benefited from, I'd like to share one of them with you:

http://www.zamzamacademy.com/about-us/teachers/

In need of duas.
Post #15 (click on purple link to the left in order to access original post)

Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
With all due respect Deoband is not the only school in Islam. We have three others including Maaliki, Shaafi, and Hanbali all of which provide evidences which at times are much more in accordance with the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Thus, I find the quote a little biased from these sources.
Assalamu alaikum brother Zeeshan,

You appear to be a sincere individual who has also memorized the Qur’an. Becoming a Hafidh al-Qur’an isn’t easy. May Allah protect you and make your path to Jannah easy. Ameen.

Brother, there are some things that I’d like to address in relation to your response to my post.

For brevity and clarity, I have quoted my entire post - above this response - and highlighted in red what you took and commented on. If necessary, reference can be made to the original posts in this thread. Additionally, linked source and reference material in this post are underlined, highlighted in purple, and may be italicized.

1. You allude to multiple sources (i.e. these sources) related to the quote. First, the quote is limited to the first paragraph in red and is clearly distinguished by quotation marks – which I have highlighted in blue. Second, this quote has only one source – the United States Military Academy at West Point. The USMA is a governmental institute of higher education that specifically trains people to become commissioned officers in the US Army. I can confidently state that they aren’t in the business of promoting Deoband (i.e. the Hanafi school of thought) over the other madhaa’ib.

A reading of the source article, written by a non-Muslim author and published by the US Army, clearly reveals its descriptive nature. The US Army is utilizing this article as intelligence on aspects related to the dynamics of Islam in South Asia. It has nothing to do with the promotion of any Islamic school of thought.

You omitted the wider context of my post, including the source reference/link.

Furthermore, I specifically stated the following in the first paragraph of my original post – also highlighted in blue above:

For reference, linked source material in this post is underlined and highlighted in green.

Your observation of source bias is incorrect.

2. Since I utilized and contextualized the quote, this observation indirectly implicates me as being a little biased as well.
In anticipation of this type of comprehension issue, I specifically included the following statements that are also highlighted in blue above:

With this observation, I am not discounting other non-Deobandi ulema. I'm just sticking to one school for illustrative purposes.

You omitted these statements in your partial quote of my post.

Your unintended implication of bias on my part is also incorrect.

In need of duas.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
12-07-2015, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
Post #13 (click on purple link to the left in order to access original post)



Post #15 (click on purple link to the left in order to access original post)



Assalamu alaikum brother Zeeshan,

You appear to be a sincere individual who has also memorized the Qur’an. Becoming a Hafidh al-Qur’an isn’t easy. May Allah protect you and make your path to Jannah easy. Ameen.

Brother, there are some things that I’d like to address in relation to your response to my post.

For brevity and clarity, I have quoted my entire post - above this response - and highlighted in red what you took and commented on. If necessary, reference can be made to the original posts in this thread. Additionally, linked source and reference material in this post are underlined, highlighted in purple, and may be italicized.

1. You allude to multiple sources (i.e. these sources) related to the quote. First, the quote is limited to the first paragraph in red and is clearly distinguished by quotation marks – which I have highlighted in blue. Second, this quote has only one source – the United States Military Academy at West Point. The USMA is a governmental institute of higher education that specifically trains people to become commissioned officers in the US Army. I can confidently state that they aren’t in the business of promoting Deoband (i.e. the Hanafi school of thought) over the other madhaa’ib.

A reading of the source article, written by a non-Muslim author and published by the US Army, clearly reveals its descriptive nature. The US Army is utilizing this article as intelligence on aspects related to the dynamics of Islam in South Asia. It has nothing to do with the promotion of any Islamic school of thought.

You omitted the wider context of my post, including the source reference/link.

Furthermore, I specifically stated the following in the first paragraph of my original post – also highlighted in blue above:

For reference, linked source material in this post is underlined and highlighted in green.

Your observation of source bias is incorrect.

2. Since I utilized and contextualized the quote, this observation indirectly implicates me as being a little biased as well.
In anticipation of this type of comprehension issue, I specifically included the following statements that are also highlighted in blue above:

With this observation, I am not discounting other non-Deobandi ulema. I'm just sticking to one school for illustrative purposes.

You omitted these statements in your partial quote of my post.

Your unintended implication of bias on my part is also incorrect.

In need of duas.

Must have misunderstood your purpose. My apologies! Unfortunately, after reading up on the Madhabi fanaticism of the past one at time reads with preconceived notions which I seem to have been subject to on this occasion.
Reply

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